How to Speed Up Combat and Remove Slog in D&D!

[@julianlastname5730]

When I dm I tend to have intelligent enemies run away when it’s clear they can’t win anymore. It allows the party to skip the cleanup phase, or gives them a new challenge of preventing escape if they need information or think the enemy will be a threat later

[@akedus44]

Indeed. Even average intelligence or wild predators will retreat when they realise that staying in the fight is not worth it. Or their survival instincts kick in.

[@the_flying_airplane5335]

I started doing this, but then my players started chasing down the fleeing enemies. I think finally taking an enemy down is the fun part and so they enjoy the cleanup phase the most.

[@iang0th]

@@the_flying_airplane5335 I don't know how you treat it in your campaigns, but if you don't make it totally clear that there are no consequences for letting the enemies get away, I think lots of players will assume they need to chase them down. For instance, if you fight some scouts on the way to the bandit lair, it's totally reasonable to expect any scouts who escape to alert the boss and join the defense of the lair.

[@mandocomando9444]

Monk with 50 base movement: no Wizard with haste and teleport: no Warlock with 600 ft eldritch blast: no Druid with wild shape: no

[@LanceDyas]

​@@the_flying_airplane5335 My players were often very light hearted and were fine with winning without things resulting in homocide err killing almost always.

[@ADT1995]

Calling combat has been the biggest thing for my group, and that's something I've always recommended, glad a content creator tackled it.

[@skama4845]

Watching this video in 2x speed so I can double the speed at which I accelerate my combat

[@Indian0Lore]

Yes optimized

[@RobinDaBold]

Wow. That's big brain, my guy

[@101arg101]

Skim comment optimizing reading

[@DangStank]

Kobold really hit us with a “Watch until the end/ the last one may shock you”

[@PackTactics]

I normally don't like doing that, I like to get to the point as quickly as possible but I rambled too much at the start of this video by mistake.

[@jontylerlud]

@@PackTacticshonestly I think what you did was perfect. You set up the big resolution at the time I was like “yeah I get it but combat is still too slo… ohhhhhh… that’s smart.”

[@demonderpz7937]

@@PackTactics >makes video about speeding up combat >rambles too much at start of video >mfw

[@krazedkoi]

You briefly mentioned the skipping cleanup phase in a previous video and, well, I stole it. My group is 6 or 7 players, and we only have 3 to 4 hours every two weeks of table time. Skipping cleabup has allowed me to increase the number of encounters without slowing down my game's progression. Its a great suggestion, glad you made a video explaining it in more detail!!

[@PackTactics]

I'm glad it's working! Thank you very much for your comment! 🐊

[@71gac]

I’ve found I have a “close enough” rule that helps my combats. If a mob of creatures each have 10hp and a character does 9 in one hit, that’s close enough, go ahead and call it dead and make it sound like an epic kill. If they do 6, either mark 6 somewhere or make a “half” mental note for the next guy that lands a hit. Doesn’t apply for boss enemies or dungeon crawls but can expedite the more common combats and the players don’t feel like they whiffed for not doing enough damage.

[@blakehudson478]

“Skipping Cleanup” had a phrase back in old school DnD: Morale checks. Different monsters had different morale, and you could roll them when the first enemy died and when the enemy count is cut in half to determine if the enemy surrenders or runs away early. Kobolds for example are easy to scare off unless they know they have the advantage, but dragons are far less likely to surrender. It more or less builds cleanup skipping into the system.

[@Morjixxo]

I agree, and add: 1) "Morale" optional rule to cut the clean up phase. 2) (Advanced) Side Initiative optional rule to really speed up combat: The advanced version it's a trade off between the standard initiative and the side initiative. It plays like this: -Sequential allies plays simultaneously -Same named enemies have same initiative. If you play online, rolling and sorting initiative is not a problem. The point of the Advanced Side Initiative is that it still uses the initiative order but is flexible on how a sequence of allies is played out, since what really matters is not the order of which the PC plays, but when the enemies act in that order. For Example with this initiative order PC1, PC2 and PC3 can "combo" together: PC4 Goblins (8) PC1 PC2 PC3 Bugbear (1) When the Bugbear dies, than all the PC get to combo together like in the DMG Side Initiative.

[@mandocomando9444]

I use moral in my games, idk if im doing it right but my version is that after the players do something impressive or kill someone tough, they can roll intimidation. The monsters make a wisdom save (against fear if aplicable) and then on a success trigger fight and on a failure trigger flight. At the start of their turn they roll the save again, and on a second fail will attempt to flee. On a success they simply avoid the triggering character. An enemy boss/mini boss can also attempt to rally but depending on turn order sometimes they end up all alone, and some monsters cannot be intimidated. Usually this results in 1-3 minions trying to run away generally before the clean up phase.

[@Morjixxo]

@@mandocomando9444 Moral is described in the Dungeon Master Guide ;)

[@North_Star7]

I've always meant to try pseudo-side initiative, seems fit for an online setting where people can't easily get in each other's way. (Literally) However, I don't see how morale is supposed to "cut out" the cleanup of a fight if all it does is add unnecessary dice rolling. If the DM thinks the fight is over, just end the fight.

[@Morjixxo]

@@North_Star7 Morale checks helps because are triggered more easily through the end of the combat. The problem with the DM ending the combat is that some players will feels helped by the DM, and this takes away from the challenge factor, which is a part of the fun factor. By using a rule players feels entitled to the win. So in theory is the same, in practice feels different. (For the same reason, I advocate to roll openly most dice rolls)

[@North_Star7]

@@Morjixxo I agree that giving players input through an explicit mechanic is handy. In a type of game where fighting all enemies to the very end is discouraged, I can see a morale system as being appropriate for encouraging a certain behavior. However, and you can correct me if I've got this wrong, I think you've forgotten the point of combat cleanup. The cleanup phase is meant to cut out combat when both sides (DM and players) already have a clear idea on the outcome of the fight. If we're unsure on who the victor of a fight is, then fight on we shall. But if a bugbear has lost all his minions and is getting curb stomped by 5 dudes, I think it's safe to say that we don't need to run any combat. Ultimately, it's up to the DM and players to decide how they want to run things. But as a DM I prefer to keep mechanical bloat to a minimum, especially since morale is up to the DM to manage and we've already got plenty of things to worry about.

[@GeebzGBZ]

Here is my 3 step program on how I've gotten to having combats with a party of 6-7, and a challenging number of monsters for that group size. Step 1. As the DM, have control of at least summon attacks, and ban the mass summon spells, they are poorly designed on many levels, how slow they are to resolve is a major one. Ask your players what their summons do and resolve it for them. Sells the whole commanding a creature thing, surprisingly fun. I also typically just generally rule all summons go after a player, reduces initiative bloat. Step 2. Teach your players about turn planning, encourage questions during their turn, and develop good habits. Step 3. Streamlining your end is important. Use average damage for fodder depending on combat density. And if you have a very obvious win, end the clean up, typically I don't do so until the party can wrap up combat without resources. This all has sped up combats to being 10-15m a round typically, and I run some pretty gimmicky and complex homebrew enemies for this too. It's crazy how fast these make combat, the summon part has saved me a lot of time especially.

[@LanceDyas]

Great video its a technique that is probably cross edition and not just D&D centered guideline. Reminds me of something in Amber diceless roleplay.

[@PackTactics]

Yeah this works with 3.5 and pathfinder 1. You have to do this at those games as well. I think they have the same slog problem as 5e.

[@godsamongmen8003]

That game was fantastic. I sometimes name my characters Corwin or Benedict.

[@endymon5240]

I like all the new content about optimising fun and logical situations rather than just builds. With all the builds you see on youtube, this is much more useful

[@dawsonhealy4327]

The biggest thing I've done to speed up my group is by letting them take their turns "at the same time". If a bunch of players are in a block together, then they can act at the same time. While they generally cant actually go all at once, they can all roll their attacks together. And even when they're not actively doing something they're paying attention, because its still "their turn. I also run fixed initiative and have my players sit in their initiative order, which removes the guesswork.

[@Elipus22]

It's funny that you put this video up today. Yesterday, I had a session that brought us to the final encounter of our campaign. The session ended after the end of Round 2 of combat. Two Reduced threat Red Slaads, one gibbering mouther, a gazer killed on BBEGs side, and our side suffered the loss of a single Thug. We're kicking ass. However, BBEG has us all suspended in the air with Reverse Gravity, and only one of us has Fly. BBEG put us in a position where we can't hurt her. If she loses concentration, we fall 100 feet, and that can easily kill a level 6 adventurer. So, now we the players are working on a strategy. Not just for how to escape, but for how to win this fight and the final fight against someone who is helping us right now, but we're certain will betray us. We have a week to plan out two fights, and we have a week to figure it out. The most dangerous enemies are dead, just the BBEG and easily avoidable things like the gibbering mouthers and a few other gazers.

[@Kingofredeyes]

My DM is thankfully pretty good about calling combat in smart ways, enemies running when out matched, or wild beasts looking for a dinner ditch once they realize it isn’t easy for example but will also throw the occasional zealots at us who will fight to the death as well. My fav was when he had the idea of a big beast in a room with a bunch of small fry coming down a hallway on us. Well one cleric had gust of win from a ring and my cleric happened to get caught in a small intersection and was able to cast spirit guardians in such a way between the two the small fry simply couldn't get down the hallway. Soon as the big beast died, combat ended instead of making us wait out all the remaining trash running to their deaths.

[@alexeybalabanov6917]

Yo I remember my players were about to assault the fortress of the last session in a year long campaign. I planned a long epic fight before the end, but one of my players just asked to mass polymorph everyone into elephants, they had a few followers who couldn't contribute to the fight otherwise. So basically this tactic would make the fight into a slog fest, like 30 something elephants. But the idea was cool, so I just told them they win it. And asked them to describe how they beat their opposing giants. It was super funny and fun

[@TheFuronMothership]

"Nobody would hurt a puppy, not even Vecna!" Cruella de Ville: "Hold my fur coat."

[@jackbarman7063]

Kristi Noem too

[@Mastikator]

I've found that using timer and reminding the players that they can plan their turn before it starts is an effect method of getting them to plan their turn during other players turns. Which also means they pay attention more instead of zoning out. I've only had to skip a turn twice. It has speed up the game remarkably.

[@Arkansym]

Since I abhor default combat in 5e, I do a lot of changes that both slow it down in parts, and speed it up. It mainly slows it down, which is why I dont think slow combat is a bad thing. Theres fewer fights, but the fights are better. I'll share what changes I make. Might inspire some folk. 1. I use a Timer from Round 2 of combat onwards. It's not a bad thing! I give my players 2 minutes to think and decide what they want to do, and ask questions. Once they start taking their turn, the timer is allowed to go over. If they're still thinking when the timer is up, they take the Dodge action and end their turn. It's also necessary because of some rebalancing I've done... 2. Telegraphs. In addition to weak and basic attacks, major creatures have telegraphs and multiple attacks. The telegraphs occur on Initiative count 40, the attacks of that telegraph at Initiative Count 0. Players have to decide what they're doing, and how they're solving the telegraph in their time limit. This makes it a MASSIVE skill jump, and 5e genuinely becomes difficult. 3. Heavy homebrew part, but I've changed the classes a bunch. They each get a new feature EVERY level. It's more engaging to use these features now too. Lots more multiclass Synergy. Ranger Wizard, even without subclasses, works insanely well. Barbarian Wizard by default is super strong. Thats the short of it. It makes combat longer overall.

[@michaelmuirhead910]

Honestly, I would have done this last session for my players, but they were learning more about teamwork, and what to do if combat isn’t going well for them. I have done this before when they had fights won early, and that seems like the right call.

[@tomattorods]

Look it's a new video from Pact Attics!

[@sundrae]

That "agree to cut down some spells and cut to the chase of the fight" was also done by Brennan in EXU. I thought it was brilliant because it didnt really matter and got things moving.

[@diolny16]

Really needed this

[@PackTactics]

Np! Glad to help!🐊

[@RenoKyrie]

Top 3 Slog fights 1. Conjure Animals (Pretty much the only solution to this is if both the Player and the DM cooperate) 2. Gimmick Boss Fights (Honestly the least offensive, since i do understand most boss fights end WAY faster than expected) 3. Mob Spam (Pretty much 1 but somehow worse since its only the DM doing it against the player)

[@AlabamaBoiz]

Homebrew rule is 1 roll for all conjured animals

[@brachmindunsparce6044]

​@@AlabamaBoizI mean, now you have to bring up and log every single conjured animal from the book. Seems a lot easier if the Player & DM agree to select certain animals so that they can be prepped easy.

[@AlabamaBoiz]

@@brachmindunsparce6044 I mean not really player just needs to have the prepared stat blocks

[@derboeseVlysher]

Mass summons like Conjure Animals and Animate Objects can work pretty well. The player should be prepared and have the stats of the summoned creatures ready. And for 10 animated knives they could just roll 10 d20s together, the DM tells them the AC, then they easily see how many hit. Damage roll and done. Or use online tools like mobby that roll for you.

[@Niyucuatro]

@@derboeseVlysher or just use the mob rules. It's a table, yout get what the dice should be to target the Ac and it translates to a hit every X creatures. For example, if you have 10 knives and they have a +5 to attack a creature that has a 20 AC, they hit on a 15+. Looking at the table 4 are needed for one hit. so with ten you would hit 2 times. Then use average damage rather than rolling for it. so if it's 1d4+3 the average is 2+3 5. By 2 times, 10 damage. if the AC is 15 rather than 20, they have to roll a 10, wich means a hit every 2 creatures. so 5 hits times 5 average damage is 25 damage. Just have the table in a piece of paper if you are going to have plenty of summons.

[@wesleyjudson599]

A few things I have done that help me run encounters as well: 1. If the number of enemies are a high number(or they have legendary/lair actions), try to keep the number of initiatives for the GM to keep track of equal to the number of players. That means the GM can plan the enemy turns during the time the players are taking their turns, at a rate of 1-to-1. If you do this, don't have every enemy roll initiative, but also don't stack them all into one initiative either. It helps with the pacing, even if two players roll close together, the monsters are likely to be in a similar situation, and you will have two player turns to plan the next two turns. 2. You can also use simplified monster stat blocks to have a similar or compounding effect, though that requires you know which monsters the party will fight ahead of time. Alternatively, follow the same rules that players should use for describing their turns to describe the monster's actions. This lets you (or the player, if you are casting a spell) roll a d20 before needing to take the time to figure out modifiers. 3. If something is slowing down the game, just make a ruling, then come back to it later. This is especially true for skills, which can be flexible anyways, and follows some simple and generalized rules.

[@blakehudson478]

I miss group initiative. That alone makes fights so, so much faster

[@nickm9102]

Calling a combat with the intent of the players narrating the cleanup at the tables I am at would actually take longer than fighting it out. One of our players spent five minutes describing a grapple and he had three attacks. He was also responsible for a multi session RP of over 5 hours IRL time trying to persuade us to try to tame essentially a huge lawnmower that the DM said it wouldn't be possible to control 5 minutes into the attempt the other 4 hours 55 minutes was everyone trying to explain to him in and out of character why it wasn't possible. The only reason it stopped was because I got tired of it and convinced everyone else to move on. For us RP borders on PvP as he has some off the wall idea and no one else will challenge so I am usually the decision point, do I move on, argue the point, or have my PC smack his senseless.

[@Cxdfc]

You call it the Cleanup phase I call it the VICTORY LAP I admit summary defeat of the enemies, now we take 1 lap of turns around the table and everyone tells me a spotlight moment of their character!

[@jontylerlud]

I’m stealing this

[@Nebram2]

Same!

[@kitsunegolem1925]

BY THE GODS I NEED THIS NOW

[@CoyoteGris]

I used the HORDE system of MCDM (flee mortals IIRC), to make huge fights, and players loved it. They felt so powerful wiping enemies by the numbers in each hit. Doing the same with normal enemies is the problem.

[@gamesbrowngames]

In that giant combat they giants wold have 100% been starting to break the walls to get to you guys

[@PackTactics]

This is their fortress. They made it.

[@gamesbrowngames]

@@PackTactics I guess they'll just lay down and die in it without getting a little desperate lol

[@domingos8214]

4:00 I agree with this, thought they're a LOT of situations where you are going to throw a spell or do X actions if the state of the battlefield remains the same And also, this assumes the DM decides to sumply thro waves against you, it's true that most DMs do this out of lazyness but this rules wouldn't count for example, a scout archer skirmish, they'll keep the range always if possible as well as taking cover, and use longbows to chip down the players, or kobolds wich may hold into corners for pinning down a player...etc

[@xanthethekingdomkeeper465]

If i was a player at a table and the Dm said after 4 rounds that the encounter is taking too long and were skipping to the end id stop enjoying combat

[@PackTactics]

Did I not say in the video over and over again "Keep the fun part of combat"? If you enjoy the clean up then play through the clean up. If you don't enjoy the clean up then skip it. I made sure to say it like 7 times and it didn't work.

[@draegonspawn5361]

I found this out naturally and totally agree, skipping a fight is fun. As a gm also call it if the party plan is a default win. I had players with an air ship and plenty of ammo just flying circles over a pack of golems. Players were fully outside max range of the golems but outside their own optimal range. I called the fight and the players spent a couple minutes making jokes and insults to aim at their helpless foe. One player volunteered his spell slots to be excessive, worked great.

[@chirioneVT]

Recently my group switched to a team based initiative. Average out the rolls of players vs enemies to see which team goes first, unless theres surprise involved. That way we the players get to discuss tactics and make our attack as a group. Casters can specify who they are going to crowd control, or AoE so that melee can avoid those enemies. Its only the 2nd week of using it but it seems to have doubled if not tripled how fast we get through combat since many enemies dont get to attack if we get the drop on them.

[@TatoGato]

couldn't come at a better time for me to run a one shot this weekend. thanks kobold! :)

[@mortalitydoesstuff8965]

Me using the portable hole bag of holding arrow to suck up every enemy on the field to make combat as fast as humanly possible: I am speed

[@arvedsteuer6994]

Me getting the notification an hour late is very combat inefficient

[@apeanders]

4:50 Yes! Enjoyment is the goal, speeding up is -A- means to that and. Focus on the goal first, then the means.

[@ChuckWestfield]

But gator I don’t have a beard.

[@apeanders]

There's a loose adage that I think crosses all fields of design: don't solve a problem if you can make it non-existent. A good combat encounter doesn't have a clean-up phase. Encounter design (and system design -- I'm looking at you, 5e) can eliminate a lot of this issue before it arises. Combine that with this video's excellent advice, and you're golden forever, like a lich in Oreme.

[@TheGotreck]

I will try out timmer rule. The timmer rule is only for the decision of action, you don't need to worry about how your action will work, that comes after your choice of an action. I really wan't my players to speed up their combat and stop planning their moves for hours so they can finish the battle in a turn or two at a really agressive tatic that if fails, will doom them all. So the timer will work fine I guess, besides, I really wanna to stress then out in combat so their victory fells good, like, "What a relief" followed by the rewards.

[@manaburnout9892]

Great video! If you ever wanted to cover other systems, I'd love to see you cover BRP (chaosiums basic roleplay system) or more videos on worlds without end

[@kennyryuken]

What I as a necromancer wizard with Summons do is I take weapons like a spear or greatsword in dnd beyond with the "same damage dice " as my Summons, and the name of the weapon/hit multiplier so they show up on roll 20 as "summon undead" etc. Throw it on your equipped weapons -This way you can edit Summons that scale with your level without flipping thru multiple pages - makes Turns fly by

[@merendell]

If your really worried about resorce costs you can easily add up how much they spent for how much damage. Subtract that from the remaining pool of hitpoints the monsters have to determine how many rounds of combat mop up would take. Ok its 3 rounds, you each burn 3 spell slots. Based on the number of targets and their hp pools they would do Xd10 round 1, Xd5 round 2 and Xd2 in the last round, spread that hp loss around the party and call it a day. Can calculate that out in 5 minutes and say ok how are you doing this? You each get 3 actions to discribe and this many mobs die each turn.

[@JAMBUILDER08]

For some cases, if someone the DM controls needs to succeed a saving throw to end an effect (that leaves them incapacitated) at the end of each of their turns, the DM can just roll multiple to see when they succeed, skipping each turn they'd do nothing in.

[@ItsJustN8]

How do you know when it's entering the cleanup phase? I've never run combat like that and have always done the "combat is over when enemies are dead, incapacitated, surrendered, or fled" method. Is it just kind of assessing when the enemies can't possibly kill a player anymore?

[@jontylerlud]

Yeah I think that’s exactly it. You have to reasonably consider, based on which NPC’s are still alive and in the fight, if any of them can actually kill a PC. If the odds are slim to none and the tension is no longer there, I think it’s time to wrap it up. Players and DM of course have to decide if that’s what they want to do, but it really should only be called if the tension is lost. Combat is much more fun when you feel the tension of the situation and you don’t know what gonna happen to anyone.

[@mandocomando9444]

If you dm enough you get to the point where one kill tips a fight. Ex you have a bearded devil and some imps, generally to this lv 2 party the big hits are coming from the BD and the imps are just there. By the “end” of the fight about half (let’s say 4) of the imps are down and then the BD gets crit. At that point you feel “ok all 4 party members are at half health and these imps are already below their cr enough to barely matter”. And that is the clean up phase. This usually happens when you have a “boss” monster and a bunch of minions, generally the boss comprises most of the threat. If you use a variety of monsters that are the same cr it’s usually when about half of them are dead and the other half are at half hp. But not all fights have a clean up: big monsters (ex dragons) generally fight to the last, and in a scenario where you’re almost out of monsters but the ones you have still have the cr to pack a punch you might press your luck. But when you look at the board and all you have are minions, and precious few at that, the fight is generally over.

[@ValoriYT]

Easily top 3 most useful videos on the channel!

[@margaretmyklebust2577]

Only Crits sell the best dice!

[@danielzarkos]

The giants, being beings of some intelligence, would eventually retreat to a safer area, I think... and not form a line and go into the spell meat grinder...

[@BelugaSennah]

I cant believe i havent thought about skipping cleanup.

[@BlenderGeek]

How would you recommend deciding when the cleanup phase starts? Sometimes it's obvious, the boss is dead and no party members are in critical condition. But for the less obvious times what would you recommend?

[@hahayep5976]

Setting a timer for a players turn is not always the right step. But in my scenario i think its right. Players at my table constantly try to optimize there actions which leads to 10 minutes plus each turn, while im spending 2 minutes because at most. So when i dm im going to limit them to 1 minute to DECIDE. 1. I start timer 2. They say what they do, A BA or other, or they ask a question. 3. Pause timer 4. Say they hit or give them an answer and let them roll dammage dice 5. Unpause timer Keep repeating. Strategies are fun but should mainly be left outside of combatbif they're 10 minutes in length.

[@Niyucuatro]

I do think that a encounter that has to be skipped is a badly designed encounter. And if it's the only way to actually make a challenge for the players, then the game in itself has been broken. This is why i find low level games more fun than high level games.

[@derektom14]

My main concern with the "let's just narrate cleanup and assume a set resource loss" is that it eliminates the tension that should have been present. To use the given map and encounter as the example, it comes down to whether or not the mass of enemies can destroy the door, and if they do, the party loses, otherwise the party is completely fine. If there's an estimated 5% chance that the door gets broken, we can't just say "the party loses 5% of their HP, and then wins" that doesn't make any sense when the door isn't destroyed. We also can't just roll a d20 to decide whether or not the door is broken because then we've determined a TPK by a single die roll.

[@PackTactics]

The doors have always been open since round 1. We never closed it because we want them open. The doors breaking or not is irrelevant. The doorway is relevant. As for tension, there is no tension in the clean up because you won. It is next to impossible to lose unless the party suddenly decides to grief for no reason.

[@derektom14]

@@PackTactics Then what did you mean by, "If we lose that doorway, then we lose"? How might you have lose the doorway?

[@PackTactics]

@@derektom14 If they break through the front line because the front line can't handle it anymore then they break the funnel which mean placing AOE is harder and the backline doesn't have easy cover anymore. We would have to rely on the little red xs on the map to try to save the encounter. These are caltrops. Yes, we have phantom steeds around the caltrops but we just have them squeeze. These giants are so dumb that they will just run into them. We didn't need the caltrops.

[@Minotaur-of-Malice]

I agree with this sentiment. The slow draining of resources is the long-term stress while the immediate combat should be short-term. If the problem is boring encounter, then the encounter should improved, not ignored. This could be in the form of additional objectives (group of civilians being slaughtered: sage as many as you can) or monsters/tactics altered (the giant uses YOU for its rock attack against the back line party member). I feel asking the players for help to shake things up can always be helpful too. A lot of responsibility is stacked on the DM as is.

[@Reepicheep-1]

Sick Rad is indeed devastating, always take it if you can

[@vinzettoducama7065]

I want to see the reaction of my players if, after they have gotten roughed up pretty good in the first few rounds of combat, I just declare combat over and call it a TPK.

[@hermitdad8726]

What about when you have a good player in all aspects except deciding what to do on his turn? Like 10- 15 minutes even after he's told he's up next? I'm really looking to use a timer if things don't get better. It's dragging out combat for everyone else.

[@PackTactics]

They are not taking the initiative order or you seriously or there's something very wrong so I would set up a private chat to try to solve this. This isn't normal. I don't think you should have a timer because that's too stressful for this person especially if it's only for them.

[@БелыйКот-с6п]

Sometimes I cut the combat when it's decided...but sometimes the combat suddenly becomes far from decided! There are an ogre with his pet 2 direwolves, and you took down his wolves? Well, instead of "now he has 1/3 of the damage, so it'll be very easy to tank that and kill him", he is enraged, he has extra moves, more attacks and a damage-over-time flame aura. There was a dragon, who got forcecage microwaved? Well, he took some damage, maybe half of it, and he is now very angry, he called his dark god and asked for help for any price, His breath now disintegrates the cage and disintegrates the PCs on 0 hp as well, so you better throw everything you saved at him. Slow cleaning is no fun anyway.

[@volosguidetomonsters3440]

I sometimes run combat as a skill challenge, where each player chooses a spell, ability, skill, or action the want to take and we roll For instance: Wizard: I use magic to cause big boom fire Barbarian: Axe go wam bam Paladin: Spirit Guardians Bard: Sedu - NO YOU CAN'T SEDUCE THE NECROMANCER

[@Undead_Nemi]

GATOR LOOK! A NEW VIDEO

[@pederw4900]

WHERES THE NEW LIZARD??? 2:34

[@PackTactics]

Next week.

[@pederw4900]

@@PackTactics BRING OUT THE LIZARD 🦎

[@gabrielepapasodaro7993]

What does it mean "a 5 time deadly encounter"? Ho do you calculate that? I need to understand how to define the difficulty of an encounter harder than "deadly", like the one you mentioned in the video

[@nacholord2328]

Read the DMG. Page 81 starts the Creating a Combat Encounter section.

[@weirdokiller123126]

My DM must have seen this video. He tried to skip combat after a few rounds one time. All the players were against it. Personally, I don't like this style. Finishing off the fight is super satisfying for me. I believe the players in my group unanimously agree. It's quite curious to see the support this video is getting. Maybe we're just weird, but I assumed this would be a very polarizing idea.

[@givorenon]

I feel like "strategizing during combat" wouldn't work for some tables. At my table some of the players are really knowledgable and some are struggling with D&D rules. So for our party "strategizing" often turns into more experienced players "giving advice" and less experienced players simply executing it. It often feels like backseat gaming rather than collaborative strategizing. I'm sure it works well for parties with equal level of system understanding though!

[@selthafour6948]

Been seeing a lot of other youtubers cover the same couple things that they like ab DC20. It’d b super cool to see some optimizer content. Class abilities and talents that may combo to do cool stuff.

[@PackTactics]

Maybe when the game is done.

[@Billchu13]

If you want a massive chunky mechanical battle, play bg3. Computer can handle everything better. Play with other people for the social & roleplay aspects. Dnd is designed for the first and not the second thing. You'll need to house rule like you explained in the video to make it fun.

[@RottenRogerDM]

I have the players write their initiative on the battle map, or we have initiative flags. And everyone is responsible for initiative. And I ask people to read their spells before Calling the fight is always the DM call. Yes. Looks like Steading of the Hill Giant Chief. Deadly fight. My pcs ran away They had a map. They had a plan. They all turned invisible. They were cocky. They opened the secret door to the great hall. .... ,,,,\ ...... The dm told them to draw out the map adding 20 feet to each side. Then told them to leave the table and not look. It took me about 10 minutes to set out the minis, the cardboard tokens, and label each piece. I did enjoy the look on their faces when they saw the hall. I moved the kids in from 3, the hill giant from 2, and spread them out. Most of them wanted to run. And I did not roll get above an 8 on the initiative. The druid threw reverse gravity again. And again my dice loved the party. Not one save in the AOE. I forgot the second spell the party threw but not much damage. They were smiling. They had this. Until. The cloud giant did misty step into the hallway. They did little damage to the cloud giant and I forgot the magic weapon. But the next time the cloud giant swung the sorcerer was zeroed out. And the giants were using the ceiling to try to move out of AOE. The Warlock grabbed the down sorcerer and dimension door out. Leaving two pcs to run away on foot. To the front door where they found out it was barred. The druid casted insect swarm which gave disadvantage to all attacks. Which was good because before they escaped I was wasted 7 Nat 20s on the pcs. They were trapped behind a wall of fire which was burning the door and giants.

[@kainepeterson6638]

MORTAL (DnD) KOOOOOMBAAAAAT!

[@amirpv1423]

How about avrae? One set up, forever usage, no more tracking HP, even let the monster auto attack (it takes a while to learn though)

[@CJWproductions]

My players get salty when I skip the cleanup phase. They think it feels like I'm going easy on them or something. And I agree. I would rather simply cut monster HP in half.

[@Xani13]

Ironically I have to watch your videos at 1.5x speed.

[@marcosantonio-hj7vp]

One great mistake that I already saw many times before with the intention to speed up combats is put all the monsters in a same initiative. The first problem with that is the fact you turn many monsters faster as they really are. That happens because the majority of the ussers of this house rule put the hightest Dex value to roll, make the Hill Giant goes togheter with the Goblin Archer. The second problem is the fact you turn all the small monsters in one big boss monster. He have multiple actions and bonus actions with diferent effects, wicht recovers all his reactions on the same turn, repositioning all of his parts on the same round. That is just stuppid to how much unfair it's.

[@MagiofAsura]

The fact that the majority of dnd channels have some rendition of this video shows WotC need to fix the system or at least address the issues DMs will face

[@TeamGoals]

Pack Attacktics

[@IgnavumFortuna]

Do be honest, I was never bored in combat in DnD. Though to be honest, my DM does very little combat. I'd say one in two sessions. So I cherish every moment of it.

[@KuaEtus]

Beach episode 🐊. Also, i have a question: Could the giants try to take down the walls to get to your team? I seem that it would be pretty easy for them to break those thin walls and surround your team 🤔.

[@PackTactics]

This is their fortress, it's designed for giants so no. That wouldn't be easy for them.

[@KuaEtus]

@PackTactics That makes sense, i dont see giants making 20 cm (3/4 feet) walls of stone between rooms 😅

[@Niyucuatro]

Couldn't the gigants move away from the door and let it become a stalemate?

[@PackTactics]

@@Niyucuatro This is a 6 hour fight. Do you think its a good idea to make it longer?

[@funnyman359]

​@@PackTactics I think they were asking more in the sense of "why would the giants grind themselves to mush against you instead of leaving through another exit

[@danieldonnert3747]

... so it's always optimal to attack duckies and summon puppies. Got it.

[@bora7494]

I had a DM that was upset about it. We were shooting zombies that were down in a hole and couldn't get to us. Totally boring as they couldn't do anything.

[@KazuYuuu]

A very simple way to save yourself time is to use average damage for enemy attacks. You can save the time spent rolling the dice and mathing the numbers to instead use on meaningful flavor to the attack!

[@Lebgefaehrlich]

Not every Fight has to go to the bitter end, enemys cann Flee or surrender

[@simonburling3762]

I usually, if the rules allow it, I will roll my attack roll, location die if needed, and damage dice all at once.

[@arybritto9015]

cut the cleaning fase, thats a thing i start to do naturally when playing high level, real good advise.

[@fluffyderp7778]

Speedrun the game, do you think DnD have speed run Kobold ?

[@PackTactics]

Speedrun games do exist. Yes. I've seen one for Phandelver.

[@VictorRamirez-bo6ix]

I think this might not take into account that Marshalls will be spectators in these fights because what wins the fight isnt this 2 bonks a turn to one creature

[@PackTactics]

Yes I did. I talked about resources like twice.

[@VictorRamirez-bo6ix]

@@PackTactics I'm confused about your reply. What does resource have to do with what I'm saying?

[@indigoblacksteel1176]

Another option if the cleanup phase is taking a long time and calling it isn't the right answer is to use averages, especially when fighting hordes of enemies. Average damage by monsters is already pretty common, but you can consider average damage by players and average number of saves made/missed by enemies as well.

[@thecornergoblin4532]

Honestly, my main issue with infinite at this point is what I play. Since Husky Raid's release, I've played nearly nothing else because it's the easiest way to complete challenges. Is it fun? Sure. But is it really what I always want to be playing just to feel like I'm investing my time wisely to progress? No. Reach and 4 had the best progression systems and I hope the possible CE remake and halo 7 returns to a similar system

[@patrickhannon2694]

Is it just me or did the audio of this vid sound like it was mostly coming from the right side?

[@rodolforupp292]

Algorithm bump

[@ChapterGrim]

I wish D&D 5e had a RAW/RAI system skipping clean up...

[@prosamis]

I think this should only be apploed when it's very obvious that you won. If there are tricks remaining or resources to spend, play it out. Obviously not in the extreme scenario presented, talking about regular stuff A lot can happen in the "cleanup" phase. Who manages to run away? What resources were used and why? What last ditch efforts did the monsters do? All gets trivialized by skipping. Imagine the bbeg is in a winning position and say "ye this is the cleanup, you all die" You'd think that's outrageous. But why? Cause players can make decisions that can change the outcome. (It's ofc also very unfun) Why not the monsters then? Monsters, imo, should be treated like NPCs with goals rather than cannon fodder I dislike the approach of speeding things up, instead encounters should be more interesting, more than just the combat. But that's based on the DM and encounter design in the end

[@bakerfamily2980]

This is much less of an issue outside dnd.

[@ivodijkman137]

Video starts. *CUMMBATH!*

[@ThornDevl]

6:14 the right way to play DND is the fun way if you can’t have fun playing DND or you’re too much of a problem player every time you have fun and it’s not fun because you keep getting kicked then DND ain’t the game for you

[@matthewparker9276]

Two words. Morale checks.

[@JimyRoze]

Actually ducking is more like a dodge action so I think it'd be disadvantage on the attack roll.... crap my friend got hit now he has ducks!!

[@brandond2768]

..sk...s...skk...skip parts of a FIGHT?!?! but that is the most fun!!!! I can not undertand why someone would want to skip. It just doesn't make sense.

[@kaien17]

I would feel bad as Rogue in that set up (even if I agree its good). Tho yeah, no optimizer plays rogue.

[@theuncalledfor]

_"There's no wrong way to play DnD."_ WRONG! If you or the other players aren't enjoying the game, you're playing it wrong! The only correct way to play, is whatever is enjoyable for the whole group! It's okay if there's some small parts here and there that a member of the group doesn't enjoy, but only if they're okay with that for the sake of the overall game and only if they still enjoy the game in general. If something goes wrong, there's many different ways of fixing it. Different people are different, some are just incompatible. If someone can't enjoy the game while someone else is playing, too, then at least person has to find another game to join. Otherwise the game will become a chore for everyone, or at least for one person.

[@Demolitiondude]

There's a myth, combat in 5th ed. I've seen enough campaigns on KZbin that there is no combat in 5th ed. It's all hypothetical. Not to mention nobody can ever get my old age and treachery.

[@Vladimir-V-Kondratyev]

Your grammar is on a different plane of existence, my guy

[@JetBlackRage]

The hardest thing to tell people who are new to TTRPGs and want to get into DnD is the whole "combat is 80% of DnD so if you don't like combat you won't like DnD" aspect. A lot of other TTRPGs for those who don't like the gritty combat.