How to Stop Overworking Your Painting

One of the simplest ways to stop working and reworking a painting is making sure before you start to paint that you know where everything you intend to paint sits in space. That may seem obvious. But watching students, I realize it is not.
By creating a simple diagram of where each object sits in space before you start to paint makes the process of carving depth on your canvas easier.
That diagram clarifies both your drawing and your perception. Less reworking. Less confusion.

[@johnritter5951]

A toddler "reaching for the moon." I had forgotten about that. Good point. I did not start painting until I retired and have been absolutely amazed at how much the challenge has been to overcome what I "know" when I see things ... painting what is actually there rather than what I know is there. Art, to a large extent, is a mind game. This video helped a great deal in that regard. Thank you.

[@danielgordon176]

I just discovered your videos; they’re wonderful. You have a gift for art and for teaching-thank you so much for sharing. Your insights really resonate with me.

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

You are so welcome Daniel.

[@1111guru]

This is exactly the issue I was having yesterday painting a beach landscape. Thanks for the great tutorials.

[@cathyserafinowicz6374]

You’ve pointed out to me, that I’ve not been looking properly.I didn’t spot the fields behind,or the way the poplars were on a different plain at the back. It’s all starting to make sense now,thank you so much. ❤️👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@JustinAnville]

I found your videos while struggling with painting, and this one in particular helped me a lot.

[@terrycardinaldesigns]

You are a wonderful and effective teacher. Thank you!

[@danam6087]

I have been taking classes from a great painter but not a great teacher. Listening to you made me realize how much I have been missing. It helps sooo much. Thank you.

[@NarcArtTherapy]

I usually paint over them when they aren't working rather than overworking. Thank you for your videos on composition, it really helps.

[@evangelinecalland360]

This is so helpful. I’m painting in Colorado, where there are vast distances, fields, lines of trees, lines of hills and mountains, and changes in elevations. I even see in your reference photo that there is a field in front of that far distant mountain! I am trying to use your technique to help make sense of the atmospheric perspective I am seeing in (on?) the mountains or distance. It makes sense that to leave any of these markers out will confuse the eye of the viewer.

[@conchawilkinson7281]

These videos are so helpful! Your instructions are simple and easy to follow. I’m a professional artist and still enjoy learning more about painting and tips from other artists. Please keep sharing them!

[@toshibe2805]

No matter your skill level there’s still always so much left to learn, I think that’s what makes art as interesting as it is.

[@kimbakerpaints]

You are a wonderful teacher and painter! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@forgu1bl]

I love the neuroscience explanation. Your analogy to language structure (clarity vs mumbling) is quite exquisite. Your videos help me to bridge my abstracted creative mind with my engineering brain which is always competing for balance in my artistic expression. Grok!

[@shawnsarahmills1320]

I 100% agree with you about planning. It makes all of life better! Why wouldn’t it improve painting.? 😊 Love this video a lot.

[@joanistotler8804]

Such a helpful concept to keep the temperature and color on tract. I need to keep more alert this this - thanks for sharing, Ian! Love these weekly reminders and look forward to the next topic on Foreground, Mid-ground and Background!

[@carolinemorgan-grenville6115]

These videos are so helpful. Thank you so much. I'm really enjoying watching them back to back in locked down West Sussex!

[@roslynr9767]

awesome! You are a very good instructor.Well said!

[@neoaureus]

Most beautiful video ever on composition....I am a photographer and painter for over 30 years....

[@anniepais700]

So interesting re the 2D and 3D vision/brain interpretation! I have a 3 year old grandson I paint and draw with- of course this makes sense that kids draw in 2D for a while before shifting to 3D! The other day I drew a square- then made it into a cube or box...his eyes got really wide and his mouth dropped open! Magic!

[@HelenRietz]

Very helpful, Ian, in pointing out those tiny details that indicate different depths. I am looking forward to seeing you take this concept into interiors and still lifes -- more like what i paint than landscapes -- where the distances are not so great but the spacial placement is crucial.

[@williamking1766]

I appreciate your help without the pretension. Thanks!

[@Piyush_Works]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@elsombrero105]

Brilliant, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience!

[@jackwheatley8838]

I get energy from your Tuesday talks. Thank you, Jack Wheatley, Marion, MA.

[@leisurelyarting]

I'm so grateful for this educational content, thank you for the lessons and creating videos like this

[@robertoeduardocrowley322]

More than excellent. Rare, uncommon , almost a pearl. Find a person so engaged in Teaching. Making the audience to think, open Our minds. Wow! Thanks a lot! From Argentina, with pleasure!

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

Thank you Roberto.

[@megmurf5376]

I'm enjoying your short videos. Thank you.

[@crisalidathomassie1811]

Wow! Great video! Thanks so much for clarifying these issues. Blessings.

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

You are welcome Crisalida

[@maryfrancespeca9647]

I love the videos that I have bought and watched them often

[@eddielindaa]

Mr Roberts...u are an exzellent teacher of your art

[@emilyjiuliano5969]

Thank you thank you thank you! The way you demonstrate how to structure the bones of a painting is such a breakthrough for me! I saved that image you showed at the end of the video and painted it and it was the most fun and rewarding experience I’ve had so far❤️

[@gaylemartin6498]

Hi Ian. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. To be made aware of what to look for helps us learn to see. Once we see, we can't "unsee" it. The more we learn to see, the better artists we become. Thank you again for taking your time to teach us how to see. Gayle

[@MHarenArt]

A lesson I learned early on, on my own, is we have to learn to SEE what we are looking at. Shapes, colors. I learned for example, snow is rarely white in a painting, and shadows are rarely, if ever, black. If we see what we are looking at we see that snow is often blue or purplish, and shadows most often have some shade of blue in there.

[@ZacharyZorbas]

Sure glad I found your channel!

[@lefthandstory1280]

Great video nice for sharing,love it🙃❤️....❤️❤️..👍.....👍....... .... 😍..........

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

Glad you liked it.

[@silentwitness9255]

Your advice is helpful

[@TattoodSpirit]

“Seeing three dimensions is learned”...BRILLIANT!!!

[@scotthaynes5419]

Thank you so much for your videos I've seen tons of videos. my problem that I recognized is that I tend to over paint just watching your videos in simplifying I now create small drawings with my dark and light values in abstract shapes and for the first half of the painting I just focus on shapes . thank you

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

That sounds like a good way to go. Good luck Scott.

[@KateColors]

Sounds like an interesting book. Thank you for sharing this diagram process. --KateColors

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

You are welcome Kate. Best wishes.

[@Croydonjohnny]

Love your videos, Ian. We met at Les Géraniums in Le Barroux last year. 🙂

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

Hi Johnny. Of course. Are you back in the UK now? I am hoping to get back to Le Barroux perhaps next year. Huw has a bottle of good red waiting for our next dinner together. I imagine things are slow this year. Whew, weird times here in the US.

[@Croydonjohnny]

@@IanRobertsMasteringComposition Nice to hear from you, Ian. Yes I'm fully back in the UK now though I visited them recently. I'll drop you an email but add you on LinkedIn first. I'll send you an update. They'd welcome you back anytime. Plenty of good wine there for you 😉

[@katpaints]

Very interesting! I have never had the ability to see in 3D - eye muscle problems that seem to be genetic took care of that. I was 27 when I got my first glasses but it is very difficult to see in 3D when you never knew that was a possibility! ViewMaster was amazing to me - did not realize that they came close to reality. The one good thing about it, I guess, is that everything is on the same plane - I don't know what is on what plane. It is all dependent on atmospheric painting - things get faded to gray-blue as they are further away, at least it is up where I live. Learning how to put a path through a painting does depend on knowing what you are looking at - knowing that something is further away is difficult. Parking is the pits, by the way, since I do not see empty space.

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

Hi Kathleen, I've heard there are two kinds of seeing. One is simply the visual information our eyes send to our brain. That is 2D since the back of the eye ball is 2D. But the second is learnt, and it is in fact our brain that structures everything we know of spacial relationships. A lot of learning to paint is to reinvigorate the first kind so we respond to shapes. Like Paul Valery said, "To see is to forget the name of the thing one sees". So most people are in fact trying undo what you have probably well in place. But to your paint if you want to lead someone back on a path into space in a painting then you perhaps are more at a disadvantage. You might find looking at a lot of different paintings there are some that lean more to the flat shapes on the picture plane and who don't worry about the spacial relations so much and find some hints and clues for your own practice. Good luck and best wishes.

[@katpaints]

@@IanRobertsMasteringComposition - It is interesting to know how hard it is to see in 3D. It's an eye muscle problem beyond my control. I had my eyes measured for cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. It took about 3 times as long to measure the weak eye as it did the one that doesn't move. Not many glasses I've had have worked at all and it is temporary - but those flickers of 3D is amazing! I honestly don't have as much of a problem in recording what I see since it's like a photograph. En plein air is my favorite, and by moving a bit, at least I can tell if what I'm looking at is sticking out or receding. ;)

[@robinedmundson5854]

Thank you for talking about the dilemma of whether to keep things at a condensed focus or more spread out, etc. This is something that I've been unsure of. I'm guessing that my choices about that are one of the things that defines my personal style.

[@candihogan6636]

Hi Ian, just recently got hooked on your videos, so helpful! Would you consider using some still lifes on occasion for your demos? Thanks, on to the next!

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

There are a couple of still ones. One a couple of months ago where a paint a pumpkin and one from way back on how to set up a still life. You can sort them by date I think to look for them.

[@antonionegrini5252]

awesome

[@meenapardeshi5860]

I do watercolor as a hobby. I am not an artist . I draw every day almost .I want to learn about composition .And I found your amazing tutorials. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.I did the diagram which you shared and then did watercolor.Can I send it to you. Thanks once again.

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

Hi Meena, I'm delighted you are finding the videos helpful. You can send me the image. Best wishes, Ian

[@Right-is-Right357]

Wonderful insight - 3D to 2D(Eye) to 3D(Brain).

[@galipozmen2685]

Teşekkürler . .

[@evelyne7071]

Very interesting about 3D going into 2D onto the back of the eyes....Very “insightful”.

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

Almost shocking when you first hear it and realize it must be true.

[@rickmitchell8267]

Woud be interesting if your followers would share their studys of the sample pix

[@williamrasoanaivo5381]

Hi Ian. Do you have videos about painting urban environment with people, cars etc?

[@megmurf5376]

Do you ever do small Watercolour sketches or thumbnails as did William Turner in his day? I believe he painted them in summer and then used them as references for his larger paintings he worked on in oils during winter.

[@angiemichal1455]

Thank you for this; how does your idea of a road map differ from a thumbnail? I know a thumbnail is more a study of values - do you do one as well? before or after your road map?

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

Hi Angie, there's one video specifically on difference between sketches and thumbnails which goes into this. Can't remember the week. That should answer your question I think. But really a road map is a more functional conscious about structure. I find most student thumbnails are done because they know the "should" but are less clear exactly what they are supposed to be solving with it. So they are often sort of unconscious distractions to the real thing which is getting brush to canvas. All the best.

[@followyourbrush]

Thank you.

[@brucesankey3409]

Of course l imagine you have addressed that point already as you paint many tree scenes, as do l also.

[@paresh4914]

Hi Ian, I tried a thumbnail sketch of the photograph towards the end of the video. I really found it difficult. There's too much going on there to simplify :(

[@chriswhitehouse8982]

Not clear to me how this "diagram" you're talking about here is any different than the thumbnails or roadmaps you talked about in the previous video? Seems like in practice, they could be combined?

[@MHarenArt]

Oh dear, I cannot draw. I can maybe draw from my mind, but to "copy" a drawing to my canvas from another image, I'm just inept. But I think this explanation may help me.

[@anthonypc1]

Similarly useful to orthographic drawings

[@bigmuscles250lbs]

Why not crop out all but the upper left corner of the photo?

[@nickfanzo]

Any drawing videos?

[@peterg5642]

I noticed in your drawing you split the drawing it in half with the horizon line.

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

It is of course a pretty good rule of thumb not to do that but at the same time it is not impossible to make it work if the rest of the image overrides the static symmetry it might create.

[@brucesankey3409]

Ian ; A bit of over explaining, or over complicating . If shapes , and values are correct with color temps. A painting should show a sense of spacial distance. Another important point is when a line of trees cross the picture plane it is a good idea to employ interlocking shapes to suggest it is a woodland , and not a wall.

[@cl759]

Commuclearly could legit be a word🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@KpxUrz5745]

The problem in giving credence to the discussion points was the doubt induced by the many "average to poor" drawings taped to the walls behind the speaker.

[@IanRobertsMasteringComposition]

Such a charmer.

[@C.Hawkshaw]

I wonder if 3D teaching is involved in teaching dogs to retrieve.

[@maryfrancespeca9647]

That is why people are not good at for shorting

[@majrminer]

It's useful to an extent, until all your landscapes end up having a road or path leading into them.