How to stop the Phalanx

[@MasterofRoflness]

Thanks to my Patreons: www.patreon.com/masterofroflness Discord: discord.gg/g2A92uCz6N

[@death-istic9586]

Love your videos!💚😊

[@moolord]

do the emu war next, if you havent done it

[@pawezdziech7120]

Well, you can try to make a similar video with Winged Hussars. And 'try' here is a big word.

[@arnijulian6241]

But the ''phalanx'' didn't end even though I do prefer the manipular formations of the romans. The phalanx was adapted into the Scottish Shilton, later swiss pikes which the pike & shot dominated the western battle field from late 15th century to the late 17th century but never truly died. The marriage of pike & shot/firearm occurred from the mid 17th century with the plug bayonet till the socket bayonet was developed in the the late 17th century that still persists today though with far less prevalence since ww1 trench warfare that in on the return in Ukraine for some reason oddly as no terrain you make your own in a plain. Phalanx was not obsolete but required plate harness & or guns to return. The Scottish Shilton, swiss pikes as well as pike & shot though the usage of cannonade as field artillery to force the engagement made heavy cavalry effectively useless. Pike & shot was often paired with war cart circles in central & eastern Europe that was carried over to the USA used against native used in wagon circles on the great planes. If you have greater ranged power or enough armour a pointy stick is rather effective. Even the Romans in the early republic used the phalanx but the romans adapted while the Greek states & colonies were stuck in tradition to their own detriment. Phalanx fanboys are annoying mind but Manipular fanboys are more commend so more annoying in my mind that don't understand no perfect formation exists & formation were made obsolete with common production precision fire arms in the mid to late 19th century. You are stuck in the past just as much as the phalanx fanboys for artillery is the king of the battle field & the western world is so silly they scrapped all their artillery after the cold war ended for the most part. Rocketry will replace conventual raillery eventually but it is not their yet. You obsess with queen/infantry when it is the king/artillery that does the hard work of killing & breaking down the opponent. Infantry just holds a position which is crucial but infantry is not the big player with in branch's o the military. I find the most hilarious people are those that think cavalry isn't obsolete.

[@Intranetusa]

The Macedonian pike phalanx became less flexible over time after Alexander of Macedon's death. During Alexander's time, the pike phalanx never made up more than 1/3 of the army, and the rest of the army were support troops - heavy and light infantry, cavalry, archers, other missile troops, etc. Those other troops were crucial to protect the pike phalanx's flanks and manuver around the enemy after the pike phalanx had pinned them down. After Alexander's death, his successor states grew too reliant on only the pike phalanx at the expense of the rest of the army. Successor states relied too heavy on pike (and increasing pike length) and abandoned the more flexible mixed unit formations of Alexander's day where the army had a small core of pikes combined with the vast majority of non-pike troops.

[@lasecte5416]

I love how ancient sources always go "oh yeah, it was like 50 of us against 1 billion of them" and then the modern estimates is "10000 vs 10000, roughly"

[@shotgunsideshow8958]

gotta love the romans claiming a casualty rate of about one MILLION during the punic wars

[@planetofgamespog8242]

​@@shotgunsideshow8958 Ancient historian: It appeared to me in a dream, the gods themselves told me it

[@TheAnonymousKnightOfJustice]

​@@shotgunsideshow8958thw actual historic records said Rome lost 2 war fleet before the third one beat up Carthage. Each one have roughly 200.000 soldiers so they lost 400.000 considering Italy was very farmable at that time. It's not that stretchy when their armies are conscripts while the Chinese had like 5 million total soldiers participating in the great unification war.

[@TheNapster153]

Better, the ancient sources speak about how the gods intervened by either dropping whole ass mountains, lightning or plagues on the enemy.

[@shotgunsideshow8958]

@@TheAnonymousKnightOfJustice yes, but china has generally been more populated overrall throughout history due to how easy it is to grow food, and having a navy of about 200,000 even then sounds stretchy because the entire united states navy is about 400,000 men, and only about 100,000 of those are activated

[@ryanzhang6925]

so you're telling me that me and the boys with extra long sticks AREN'T invulnerable?? heresy I tell you

[@ulqiorracifer8026]

Just use a smaller long stick, and you're good

[@velstadtvonausterlitz2338]

Use a bigger square shield then ditch the spear and use two throwing spears to skirmish in its stead. Also, use a short two sided thrusting sword as a main weapon while fighting in a more loose and versatile formation.

[@TheAnonymousKnightOfJustice]

​@@velstadtvonausterlitz2338😂😂😂a

[@thebigcheese8169]

thats called the greek phalanx, its an older version of the macedonian one.@@ulqiorracifer8026

[@mrsqu8688]

Haha, Sciltrom go BRRRRRRRRRRRT

[@Hakabas01]

An intercontinental ballistic Gnome with a nuclear warhead would also make quick work of that phalanx.

[@Calbjrd]

*c a n n o n s*

[@cram8242]

wait did you get recommend the thermonuclear gnome video then was recommended this next, if so then we are now linked together by some unseen bond I say brother.

[@datuhuginn5079]

​@@cram8242 I just watched that thermonuclear gnome hours ago

[@2sexyy]

same@@datuhuginn5079

[@war_designer8763]

*press X to doubt* 🤨

[@victorvaquer94]

"How do I stop **insert infantry formation**" the answer is always any form of Artillery

[@purecalamity]

how do i stop artillery

[@illegalopinions4082]

@@purecalamity Have your own artillery

[@samo917]

Testudo formation wants a word

[@randomarcgunner4543]

@@samo917 Testudo formation when they get hit with an artillery shell from several KM away.

[@Chaoktarukto]

How do you stop artillery? Air strikes. How do you stop air strikes? Anti-air. How do you stop anti-air? Artillery. ...I dunno how any of this works help me

[@Carlo-zk2cy]

Macedonian phalanx was never meant to be a stand alone unit. It was just the anvil to the hammer (cavalry) supplemented with light infantry and Hypaspists.

[@donatodias-gy1bu]

Sure, but boy just asked how you defeat a phalanx, not how you stop Alexander The Great whole army

[@skedfinger]

Weird spelling of hypersalivation tbh

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

@@donatodias-gy1bu good point

[@obiwankenobi4252]

@@donatodias-gy1buyou don’t

[@francesco8000]

It's not a coincidence that the most effective user of the phalanx was Alexander and he basically was the only one in greece that actually used cavalry a lot.

[@jasondaveries9716]

Yes. Phalanx + companion cavalry = conquer known world

[@giftzwerg7345]

What about pyrus? And all the other good comanders, warfare changed bc it was phalax against phalanx, and focusing on the phalanx was the way to win.

[@okenogamer]

​@@giftzwerg7345what about pyrhuss? Bro wiped floor with romans and only lost once. Most if hus army was destroyed in sea strom, had to leavy poorly armed greek tarantines

[@midweekcentaur1050]

@@okenogamer That storm ruined him.

[@okenogamer]

@@midweekcentaur1050 yes kind of. He was able to not only beat the romans but inflict severe casualties on their ranks. But ultimately he couldn't replenish his losses like Romans

[@GetStormed]

The reality is so much more complex. The Phalanx was a super flexible unit, with skirmishers and scouts. In most of the Roman wars, the Phalanx nearly systematically won 1v1 against the Legion as an organisational unit. But, where the legion had centuries of reforms and also failures, the Phalanx was deeply linked with the Greek/Macedonian political and social system. Alexander has been dead for centuries yet it remained untouched all that time. When the roman did defeat the macedonians, their allies (like the Pergonians) or better use of professional manoeuvre made the difference. just throwing stuff didn't throw a wrench in their plans, otherwise the Persians would have crushed Alexander lol

[@tatarcavalry2342]

Super flexible would be overestimating super flexible unit of before 19th century Europe are Spanish tercios etc. not phalanx

[@giorgiociaravolol1998]

Exactly people think that darius just thought of sending waves of ill equipped men like in the movie

[@Limrasson]

@@tatarcavalry2342 pike&shot is literally just a phalanx with guns instead of shields.

[@arcelinomadeira7684]

☝🤓

[@tatarcavalry2342]

@@Limrasson Most of the pike and shot did actual maneuvers rather than just rotating, they closed and opened for the cavalry and ranged.

[@Lord_Pilaf]

"How do you even stop a Roman legion?" "Laughs in Parthian cavalry"

[@hoi-polloi1863]

"Chortles in sack of Ctesiphon" "Snickers in sack of Antioch" ...etc, etc. For all that Parthia was more cavalry-focused and Rome was more infantry focused, neither group could get a permanent victory over the other. My favorite tactic of all time is the Russians' use of Gulyay-gorod (walls on wheels)... those cats liked their forts so much, they brought 'em to remote battles!

[@Milo_Estobar]

Hanibal: "inside"

[@namishusband818]

“Laughs in German ambush”

[@cyborgchicken3502]

​@@Milo_Estobaryeah but eventually Hannibal got his ass kicked by Scipio of Africa.... Now the goths on the other hand

[@Milo_Estobar]

@@cyborgchicken3502 Both legend was betrayed by their own people... Being kicked in the ass in battle is a thrill for them...

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

"105 Millimeter cannon, Fire."

[@michaj8105]

*how to stop phalanx* step one: have Catapult step two: use Catapult

[@Comment27560]

step 1 :have Trinitrotouluene which you can make if you have enough nitric acid OR step 2 : have intercontinental ballistic missile

[@dislikebutton9571]

The best part is the phalanx kinda came back in a way during the pre modern period ~1500-1700s because it was discovered how effective pikemen where in combination with firearms, lines of pikemen were deployed to protect musket infantry from cavalry and were very effective. Granted they didnt have shields or heavy armor usually so they weren't exactly phalanx perse, but the long pikes in formation do resemble the macedonian sarissa phalanx.

[@BluJean6692]

Worth noting that the sarissa was a two-handed weapon, which required the shield to be reduced to about a 3rd in size and slung loose over the foremost arm. Essentially the same as an early modern pike formation except that the shield gets replaced by a cuirass or heavy brigantine/hauberk. Seems likely some EM pikemen would also use a targe or buckler but I can't say for sure...

[@AceStudios10]

Pike squares be bussing

[@alesieur]

Sorry, I initially read that as "pikmin"

[@Kensuke0987]

They were reintroduced not because they were good together with firearms. Firearms came later, and they made the pike redundant. Before the arquebusiers, they had archers and crossbowmen in the pike block's flanks. The pike came to widespread use in Europe because they countered cavalry, and the highly-disciplined mercenaries of the mainland popularized them (the Swiss and the landsknechts). When the shot became ubiquitous, the shot formations grew larger and larger and they became the primary force in armies. The smaller pike blocks started seeing less action, and the pikemen would drop their pikes and pick up discarded arquebuses just to join the fight. The halberdiers just chilled in the back.

[@g76agi]

​@@Kensuke0987how did early firearms make pikes redundant?

[@ashina2146]

Romans : "We defeated the Clumsy Phalanx, this tactic will become outdated" Medieval Scots: "okay but what if, 360 Phalanx?" Medieval Swiss: "that's cringe, OFFENSIVE PHALANX" Early Modern Swedes: "Those Muskets are no match for our pikes!" *Proceeds to break the formation of their musket armed enemies and win with pikes*

[@GAMER123GAMING]

of course animeoid loves the most soy races on earth.

[@ashina2146]

@@GAMER123GAMING Races?, all I see are hairless monkeys with long sticks.

[@saulofontoura]

@@GAMER123GAMING Scots, Romans and Swiss are soy races?

[@XD-sc4ix]

​@@GAMER123GAMINGfound the bri'ish Virgin

[@cool06alt]

The swedes were not user of pikes in the style of phalanx. Swedes Carolean tactic lies on the fact that their use reflects toward their Viking heritage as shock infantry unit. Swedish Empire cannot afford to fully equip their soldiers with muskets so they have to put those powder in effective manner. The solution is essentially going back to the 15th century French artillery + heavy cavalry tactic. Cannons should be the biggest damage output followed by cavalry + infantry shock attack. As result of this extreme leaning, you even got leather cannons. Small tube of bronze covered with leather, supposedly they were light enough and be produced in large number. And filled with cannister shots. Which I think can be far efficient than a company of musketeers. That above is also one of my own personal argument on why muskets alone were not the major reason gunpowder age revolution happened. The Battle of Chaldiran was won with cannons, not Jannissary muskets. Joan of Arc successful battle was won with French knight charge + cannons to dismantle English longbowmen.

[@WillySalami]

0:24 Units: "50000-72000" Casualties: "53000..." Seleucids potentially having negative casualties, truly incredible.

[@berserkerpride]

Ancient Roman historians might be a touch biased.

[@no_name4796]

Maybe one of those 3K soldier travelled through time and joined the 80 lichtenstain soldiers. Idk about the other 2999 soldiers though

[@hitmanrafi9390]

You included modern estimates of military units and ancient sources of corpses. Ancients sources: 72 000 units 53 000 dead MODERN estimated: 50 000 - 72 000 units 10 000 dead

[@comradejet9373]

Romans won so Hard - Seleucid Boys back at home had a heart attack at hearing of such defeat

[@GenkiGanbare]

The victory was so decisive that 3000 peasants observing the battle from a distance exploded spontaneously.

[@orangenasa]

Somebody asked me this and I said "How about Napalm?"

[@winzigerflashendeckel6894]

My god i stole your comment, sorry

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

unless you got buildings, Fire isn't going to spread that much. not to mention, Fire (like gas) has no alligence and will harm anyone that is in the way.

[@Ammiad]

A wise man once said: "Use gun, and if that dont work? Use more gun"

[@seanejmiller]

Phalanx: "I AM UNSTOPPABLE!😈............😑 he's right behind me, isn't he...."

[@SamPetrescu]

He's right at my vulnerable side, isn't he...?*

[@CidGuerreiro1234]

Well that was awkward.

[@augustday9483]

*loses battle* "Well THAT just happened!"

[@michaelterrencefernandezli6688]

as a total war player who uses Pike infantry, do not under any circumstances tell them to attack a unit without supervision.

[@NameNik223]

The best thing to do is to modify the preferences file so they would only be able to walk in pike formation and not switch to swords. After that, they are mostly unbeatable without projectiles

[@AttaBek1422]

@@NameNik223 How do you even do that?

[@NameNik223]

@@AttaBek1422 I tried in M2TW, and this video explains well how to fix it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5TSpIuiq8iqopIsi=y4Jp5MPmpINQjpKO

[@veryangryduckpl2122]

​@@NameNik223The pikeman I deployed changing to sword after the enemy walked into the damn formation:

[@NameNik223]

@veryangryduckpl2122 If you check the preferences file (I don't remember the name, but I think it has "units" in its name), you'll see that every unit has stats for the secondary weapon. Just change the stats of every pike unit to the word "no".

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

To be fair, Philip and Alexander's phalanxes were reasonably well balanced with pikes "only" 5-6m long. In the following centuries, as they mainly fought other phalanges, they got heavier with longer pikes. Turning them into the one-trick-pony that the Romans crushed

[@rodrigoandorinha9259]

They should have used the "throw the stick" move ,i think thats one of the best moves a human can learn

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@rodrigoandorinha9259 a 5 metres pike is quite a bit too long to throw effectively, and should you do that you lose your primary weapon and have to rely on a backup with much less reach. Not the best move.

[@rodrigoandorinha9259]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine No , I mean , instead of doing the phalanxes they just have units to throw spears , it could work as a mid range unit since they would be able to defend themselfs and still had how to attack from far away

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@rodrigoandorinha9259 you're describing peltasts, skirmishers throwing javelins. But as lighter troops they cannot hold their ground, they are used to support heavier phalanxes

[@thehuntermikipl1170]

@@rodrigoandorinha9259 you basically said that a way to make phalanx better is to not use phalanx lmao also ur wrong

[@CathPaluigi]

Wait a minute, this is just a history lesson disguised as a meme!

[@r.g.s.5923]

How not to defeat a Phalanx: Frontally charge into it. Hot to defeat a Phalanx: Do literally anything else.

[@Steve-gz3sy]

This spear turtle is smarter the the rest bahah

[@johnpaulcross424]

Who would win? One of the most intimidating military formations in history or… One shooty boy?

[@TheWebsOfCorruptionNeverFail]

...a shooty boy wearing a toga and holding a minecraft shield

[@Stryker98]

"One of the most intimidating military formations in history or…" Nah bro, i would rather fight a phalanx head on than face a Carthaginian army with hordes of rampaging Elephants...

[@deepdungeon8465]

​@@Stryker98you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 😂

[@colminerojoshuab.8155]

Shooty boi really said "Nah, I'd win"

[@johnpaulcross424]

@@colminerojoshuab.8155 Jujutsufolk is leaking again 💀

[@privatehudson516]

Or just call in a Sherman tank with long barrel 76mm gun. At this point in the war the US forces have already encountered the phalanx many times and they modified the Sherman specifically to penetrate it.

[@spaceracer6861]

It's true, I saw it in 'Nam.

[@BM-13_KATYUSHA]

USA is one of my favourite bronze age nations but give some credit to the British who invented the firefly variant of the sherman with the 17 pounder gun before the Americans copied it. The brits did this as a response to Danish aircraft carriers loaded with VTOL jets piloted only by the most elite Vikings! (Viking Tactical Overland Lighter)

[@417Owsy]

the average online CIV 6 server:

[@EdKolis]

Nukes are too weak, they don't even destroy a city!

[@Stupid_lil_rat]

@@EdKolisthen what do we need? A god damn Tsar Bomba?

[@drekbleh7081]

Never heard of the phalanx? are you from the bronze age or something? ... ITS THE SEA PEOPLE OH GOD OH FU-

[@ryanspinoza6586]

To be fair this counters is only good if they are outnumbered to begin with which makes flanking easy. A phalanx square formation is hardly as inflexible as people made it out to be, it can stab at any direction not everyone inside was needed to point in one direction as long as they’re in a square formation. It never really went out of fashion until gunpowder/muskets were used.

[@mortvald]

sometime terrain makes flanking easy

[@leomomoeda10]

"idk throw a big ass boulder at them lmao" -phalanx destroyus the first, son of convenient namestus

[@commandercritic9036]

Okay, let’s get some clarity in here. First off, the Phalanx was the PREMIER infantry formation of its time, and there’s a reason they sport those MASSIVE shields alongside the pikes, and that is specifically to protect against ranged attacks. Where the Phalanx suffered though was that it was designed to take attacks from the front, not the back or sides (this would be rectified by more modern iterations of Phalanx formations, like the Swiss Guard and medieval Scots). Also those pikes were HEAVY, try holding a pole of wood three times your height for several hours straight, in ONE hand, and tell me your arm muscles aren’t burning after an hour, and that’s just holding the damm thing, you’ve then also got to fight with it. The training and endurance the men of a Phalanx went through to be effective and capable is comparable to the fitness training many modern day soldiers take in basic, these guys were the Marines of their day, and large amounts of money and resources were spent to maintain Phalanx units. The Roman units by comparison, were mere SHADOWS of what the Phalanx was, cheap copies that ditched the weapon that made the Phalanx so formidable. In trade, they adopted the Javelin, a short range throwing weapon that was made of soft Iron, why soft? So that upon impacting a target, they would bend, instead of break, and subsequently weigh down enemy shields, forcing them to be abandoned. The Javelins primary role in Roman units wasn’t to kill (though they still could, and this was a nice bonus), it was to DISRUPT enemy formations and break them apart, which, as this very video points out, was the Primary weakness of the Phalanx. 1v1 the Phalanx would CRUSH Roman units (they were not legionaries at this stage, that came after the Marian reforms), as most Roman units were made of drafted soldiers, men recruited and trained in a hurry, there was no professional Roman army at this stage, so with a few exceptions, most Roman units were made of civilians after a better pay day than they could earn on a farm or in the cities. Their armour was no where NEAR the legendary Legion armour, with most having either leather, or if they were lucky enough to afford it, basic chainmail. The large shields were of course standard, and this is about the only thing the early Roman units had going for them, but even these were just wood. Meanwhile, the Phalanx soldiers, as previously stated were almost all hardened veterans and professional soldiers, they had to be to have the strength and stamina to wield those pikes. This meant the Phalanx had better trained and better equipped men than the Romans did. So how did Rome beat the Phalanx, strategy and time. Rome during its wars against the Greek states as well as Macedon, was gifted with some decent to PHENOMENAL leaders who recognised the weaknesses of the Phalanx, these being flank attacks and disruption of the formation. The Phalanx was also a lot more cumbersome a unit, especially while in the iconic hedgehog formation (with the pikes lowered), so Roman generals capitalised on this. Another weakness was the Phalanx’s quality itself, it takes time and money to train a Phalanx properly, meanwhile the Romans just needed to learn to follow orders, march in formation, and know how to stick the business end of a short blade into the enemy, fraction of the time for a fraction of the cost. Small victories paved the way forward for Rome, the more land they took, the larger their population grew, the more soldiers they could maintain, not to mention their stamina (read: Available Manpower) when it came to war. Eventually, the Greek states could no longer maintain the high quality of their Phalanxes as Rome bled them dry of both money and men in wars of attrition, and the Phalanxes greatest strength, became its greatest weakness. Meanwhile, Rome was becoming ever more adept at military thinking, causing their army to evolve from a conscript force to a semi-standing army and eventually, after Marius and his reforms, a full Professional army. Ironically though, the same professionalism and quality that was the downfall of the Phalanx, became the Legionnaires “Achilles Heel” as well, since a Legion, while an INCREDIBLE fighting force, is very EXPENSIVE to maintain, and while it is not AS cumbersome as the Phalanx was, when we’re talking about crossing an Empire that covers half of Europe and the entirety of the Mediterranean world, a Legion is UNBEARABLY slow, especially when compared to the mobile war bands, mounted and unmounted, of the invading tribes from Central and Eastern Europe. As time passed and corruption in the Empire grew, the Legions began to degrade, oh they remained a formidable fighting force right up to the Western Empire’s fall, but they simply couldn’t keep up with their more dynamic opponents… I guess the old saying, “What goes around, comes around,” applies here.

[@clonecommandermike332]

Thanks for the history lesson on the tactics of ancient armies! Good read.

[@DarkVirtu]

TL;DR: Roman units > Phalanx

[@aregulargenericname8794]

Cope

[@smtandearthboundsuck8400]

So they only win against farmers and uber drivers lmao "They would win against romans if they are recently drafted newbies" Bro thought this made his argument stronger 💀

[@Reignor99]

insert sped up meme of guy justifying something with marker on whiteboard

[@benevolentduck9598]

I’ve heard that hoplites were deployed together with cavalry which secured the flanks and enabled encirclement tactics when needed to counteract the weaknesses of the phalanx formation

[@brickstonesonn9276]

yes but the phalanx would still have it's other big weaknesses. Imagine trying to maintain that formation in a forest or rocky/uneven terrain; it's essentially impossible to use unless the terrain is flat or at least somewhat even. Also the romans generally won via overall strategy, so the phalanx wasn't completely useless, their generals were just incompetent.

[@joeyawiki3315]

That depends on how fast the cavalry clash ends tho. Since the formation might be too slow to help the cavalry if they're losing

[@ernstschmidt4725]

yeah, flanks of cavalry became more important to greek armies in the hellenistic period (post-alexander) since hellenistic armies fought not only in the hills of greece but around the mediterranean. before that the rugged terrain of greece lent more to peltasts (light foot javelineers) to cover the sides of the phalanx.

[@phanhuyduc2395]

@@joeyawiki3315 obviously you have to win the cavalry battle otherwise you are fucked. If you play any Total War game you know you fucked if you lost the cavalry dual in the wings because they just swing around and hammer your center from the back , no matter the unit you using

[@joeyawiki3315]

@phanhuyduc2395 That is exactly my point

[@AveragePatrioticfinn]

Macedonian phalanx: Exists Romans:throwy thing go brr

[@ThePhysicalReaction]

Everyone knows phalanx are weak VS firebombs :)

[@LordCogsley]

@@ThePhysicalReactionhaha demon souls reference

[@Nick-hi9gx]

The Romans fought the sarissa Phalanx in 7 major engagements, 8 if you count Pydna as "major engagement" which I definitely wouldn't. They won 4 (5). 1 of those was an accident (Cynoscephelae), 1 was won because Philip V's phalanx held Antiochus' phalanx in place (Magnesia). The maniple system was really only very slightly better during that period.

[@pilotlist6276]

"How do you defeat a phalanx? Archers ..." Well ackshully, when the pikes are held in their upright position, the spear shafts create a fair amount of cover for the formation. It'd be like shooting into a forest, a lot of the arrows hit wood and lose their energy. Of course, some make it through, and the arrows still hurt when they fall down either way, but arrows weren't that much more effective

[@Tugela60]

Not that much cover.

[@ashina2146]

All fun and games until you learn the Greeks also have the Thureophoroi and Thorakitai. Thureophoroi are basically Medium Flexible Infantry who can support the Phalanx, making it easier for the Phalanx to engage in their best matchups as the Thureophoroi is flexible enough to fight in uneven terrain. Thorakitai is the Greek Version of the Legionary, Heavily Armored Infantry who fight similarly to the Maniples, however their numbers are quite limited as they need specialized Training and Equipments which isn't easy to mass produce. So in the end the Phalanx wasn't a Instant win tactic and the Greeks know that and introduced more supporting units for their Phalanxes, however all those supporting units needed to work with the Phalanx, which the Greek and Successor kingdoms lacked, especially when their Kings always try to cosplay as Alexander, leading the charge with their Cavalry while neglecting their Phalanx, while the Romans System being much more Flexible in both Tactics and Command.

[@commandergeokam2868]

Also Calvary (Ιππιες)and archers/slingers (τοξότες /εκσφαιδονιστες/πελταστές)supported the flanks

[@ashina2146]

@@commandergeokam2868 Ippotis Forces depends on the state as Macedonian Ippotis Force will be different from the Seleucid Ippotis Force. However Peltastai, Toxotai and Sphendonestai Forces are always present albeit more used for Skirmishing which can contain some of the best such as the Thracian Peltastai, Cretan Toxotai and Rhodesian Sphendonestai.

[@GAMER123GAMING]

Bro Brennus literally showed up into Greece nearly collapsed the entire country and then settled in Galatia and tylis. all the way from gaul btw

[@trianglemoebius]

I mean, the Romans still beat them, so I'd say it was still fun and games.

[@selfinsertedchudvz341]

still lost to romans doe

[@DivOb]

one must imagine the phalanxians happy

[@moipoi1]

*phalangites

[@zelorig8887]

Imagine if Twitter existed during the greek times. Zeus with the only verified profile Centurions with the hardest bio known to man Julius Cesar beefing with everyone he seen The roman colosseum having an official twitter page that live streams the contestants battling it out every weekend Sounds awesome ngl

[@apokalypthoapokalypsys9573]

I can imagine Caesar wishing everyone a happy Venus Genetrix, even to the losers and haters.

[@Nomad0311]

Social media is already causing a breakdown of human social skills and perception of the world/reality. If it existed back in the old days we would've collapsed even sooner.

[@Nomad0311]

Enjoy the ride while it lasts.

[@danksalt5935]

Bread crisis every now and them.

[@hoi-polloi1863]

"Hera DESTROYS Zeus with proof of infidelity!" "Win any siege! Trojans HATE this trick!" "Aphrodite EXPOSED having OnlyPhalanx account! Hephaestus big mad!"

[@Nw-zh1uq]

What people do not Consider : In every battle against a Phalanx the Romans always had another Greek Phalanx in the frontline from Greek allied city states. Against Macedonians they deployed Hypeirots and Thessalians Hoplites to take the Brunt of the Enemy phalanx and the War Elephants. Against the Atheneans-Atticans the deployed Coryntheans and Argoneans . The Romans did not defeat ancient Greeks with force because they could not.They themselves knew that very well and that is why the respected the Hellenes. They used devide and conquer tactics and made the Greek city states fight each other Under the pretext they would be freed from the Dynasties left by the Generals of Alexander the Great. Also the Phalanx was widely different from the Macedonian Sarrissa phalanx. The Normal phlanax used much more normal sized spear ranging between 2 and 2,5 meters instead of 5 to 8 meters that the Macedonians Sarrissa had. All Greek city states had normal Phalanx units in Greece since they could be deployed better in the Rocky and uneven Ground of Central Greece. The real place where the Macedonian phalanx shone was in the Middle East against war elephants and chariots. Up until the point the other greek city states left the Macedonian army Alexander had normal sized Phalanxes to cover the sides of his Macedonians Phalanx.

[@roadent217]

"All Greek city states had normal Phalanx units in Greece since they could be deployed better in the Rocky and uneven Ground of Central Greece." Nonsense. Alexander conquered the entirety of "rocky and uneven" Greece with the Macedonian 5 meter sarissa phalanx. The Romans, at Raphia and Magnesia, definitely defeated the Alexandrian version of the phalanx - and the same at Pydna and other battles against the Antigonids. Going back to the short spear after the Alexandrian sarissa would be like going back to Interwar land-ships after experiencing WW2 tank warfare. Like going back to biplanes after experiencing the Spitfire, or the Bf 109, or the P-51 Mustang. Ridiculous.

[@Nw-zh1uq]

@@roadent217 Most battles against the other Hellenes happened in open space which was favorable for the Sarissa. Alexander avoided attacking mountain sides or uneven ground. With the Sarissa phalanx. Alexander also had normal sized Phalanx's to cover the sides of the Sarissa phalanx and to protect the light units like Peltasts and Archers. My previous comment has some problems so I will adress them as well. 1. At the time of the roman wars the Hellenic city states also used the Sarissa phalanx and the normal phalanx. I should have stated that they did not regress back to normal sized spears but instead kept the normal sized spear units as protection for the sides ands the light units. The Phalanx that went up against the Sarissa Phalanx was also a Sarissa phalanx.

[@thebloodydemonsinyourdream1489]

me watching this incase I ever get sent back in time to the Ancient Greece's era.

[@let_me_explain8572]

I like how 2000 years later we're memeing about stuff that was once invented as a survival measure

[@lordvarrax5060]

Soldiers today meme about survival measures all the time, and I bet they did back in the day too.

[@spacejihadist4246]

Shut up me.

[@okenogamer]

Phalanx is one single unit. Alexander had phalanx only to pin the enemy. The offensive was done by cavalry or hypaspists. Later phalanx was used to break the enemy and even though they proved ineffective they inflicted tons of damage on the romans. Alexander had every single ranged weapon. 9 different cavalry units. Best Agrianian skirmishers screening the cavalry and infantry. Heavily armed hoplites etc

[@superspies32]

Also he absorbed Persian archers from mercendaries fought for Persian at early stage of the campaign after saw how much damage they dealed to Phalanx, outranged and outmaneuver his archers.

[@thetownfool-t5e]

phalanxes, tercios and spear boi formations in general, have got me acting up.

[@thespanishinquisition4078]

Tercios are basically Phalanxes remade by more intelligent people. And before anyone says it. No. The Tercio wasn't only possible because of guns. In fact they existed before guns. The original formations used Crossbows and Javelins, and only had handcannons for sieges.

[@AW-jy4bt]

Lol what movie or show was at 0:05 ?!? Dude got hit with a hundred arrows

[@c.jishnu378]

Replying so that if someone else replies, i also know the answer.

[@mishka1138]

I think it’s American Gods

[@Aryaman_mishra775]

Hmm

[@AW-jy4bt]

@@mishka1138 It was American Gods, thank you. I actually read the book about 12 years ago. Very descriptive and engrossing.

[@HistoricalWeapons]

Slingers are better at this task

[@lorenzocassaro3054]

Fun fact: those pikes (can't remember the name) were that long because they also served as a defence against arrows

[@neutralfellow9736]

> use archers > all archer and horse archer plentiful armies that ever faced it, failed miserably > Parthians lose miserably the first Seleucid war and only start winning after adopting heavy cavalry what did history mean by this?

[@joeyawiki3315]

Because those horse archers lose against the cavalry that protects the flank of phalanx

[@lordrefrigerator]

They have shields.

[@thebigcheese8169]

why are you writing in 4chan

[@neutralfellow9736]

@@thebigcheese8169 it is not 4chan it is python

[@spaceracer6861]

@@thebigcheese8169 he forgot to switch languages

[@izzatsufian2796]

Certified Roman Victory

[@ennardthefuntimepuppet6456]

Heavy Artillery with advance heat seeking missiles

[@Votrae]

Finally some good content on this dang website

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

Meanwhile in the Renaissance: "Hey lads, lads. Listen up. I' ve got a great idea." "What is it this time...." "What if, listen listen, what if.... we bring back the phalanx?" .... "I'm listening...."

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

@Iamnotracistlmao What's Endian?

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

@Iamnotracistlmao Nope. Dutch (The orange) and Irish (the green), with the middle band being a reference. I've had this for a while and people didn't ask/think I'm Indian, but under these video's everyone suddenly does think I'm Indian. I legit don't get why here, and only here, people think I'm Indian.

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

@Iamnotracistlmao Then how come people have no problems anywhere else? Is everyone just so much worse at vexillology here? Why do people keep thiking I'm India HERE and nowhere else? And how am I supposed to change my profile pic then if I do want to change because of it?

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

@Iamnotracistlmao How am I supposed to change it then? If I make a sideways tricolour it'll be either Ireland or Côte d'Ivoire, and I feel the Peoples Republic of Treacle Mine Road HAS to be in the middle.

[@Fankas2000]

And it worked!

[@wojtjankowski6816]

1:01 me when Polish 🤯🤯🤯

[@fierylightning3422]

video is slightly misleading; the phalanx was actually very good against enemy projectiles due to the forest of pikes that intercepted arrows/stones. However the romans used terrain to their advantage to create weak-spots in the phalanx, and then use their mobile manipular system to storm the breaches and overwhelm the enemy.

[@superspies32]

And also Roman's javelin designed not to kill, but to strip away opponent's defense equipments or hindered them to nearly useless if they refused to abandoned their equipments that be hit by it. Sure they survived javelin throw but can they moved after that was another story

[@fierylightning3422]

@@superspies32 if I recall correctly macadonian phalanxes used small circular bronze shields rather than the large round oval wooden shields majority of civilisations at the time used. I'm not sure how effective a pilum would be against a smaller bronze shield; not to mention I don't even know if the pilum was in wide-spread use during the roman conquest of greece.

[@BufferThunder]

Archers would work, but a 52 megaton thermonuclear warhead would be much more effective, but suit yourself

[@az-6262]

Mangonels, skirmishers, horse archers, greek fire, pilum/javelin, darts, trenches, walls, rivers, trees, big rock, boiling sand, boiling water, balistic log, rolling log, falling log, flanking, breaking the pikes, and another phalanx

[@someoneunusual7186]

I feel honored that Rofl used media of Polish origin for 3 seconds in the video

[@Eliktro]

if you google manipular formation thats the first image so thats prolly why he used it, but I also feel honored

[@nathanieljones7981]

Just a FYI, it was defeated by terrain. Archers shots would be deflected and bounced off. 1v1 Roman vs phalanx would lose. They did lose a few battles until the big ones shown. Those were on broken ground

[@Imrixan]

People talk a lot about the phalanx having trouble with rough terrain, and it's mad when you remember that Phillip II developed the Makedonian phalanx IN THE BALKANS. It was a formation that commonly saw success in the rough terrain of Makedon and Achaemenid Asia, in wars against Persia and their access to some of the finest light infantry and cavalry in the known world. Yet, we're supposed to believe it was a formation of casually-flanked infantry capable only of operating in ponderous battle lines? Absurd.

[@Lycurgus1982]

Do you know just how severely a soldier would be punished for breaking rank in those times?

[@Imrixan]

@@Lycurgus1982 Yeah, and those punishments existed because they *kept doing it.*

[@svxnger]

@@Imrixan Generals chose their field of battle very carefully, there are plenty of flat grasslands and fields between the balkan mountains. The reason why phalanxes have trouble with rough terrain is because its harder to keep a cohesive front line, and having a cohesive front line is the whole strategy of a phalanx. For example a big formation of rocks or trees in the middle of your phalanx will be an easy opening for roman legionaires to flow into then make their way through to attack the phalanx from the sides and their backs. TLDR; Long lines of men with long heavy pikes are not flexible and not easy to manouver around obstacles in terrain without compromising the cohesion of the line.

[@Imrixan]

@@svxnger I'm aware that this is the common theory. I'm also aware that the present thinking among historians is that it's simply not true.

[@cirokistermann7834]

Spanish Tercios watching the documentary: 🗿🗿🗿 Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba "The Greath Captain" watching the documentary: 🤓🤓🤓🪖🪖🎖️

[@athatcher9367]

The Persians used archers a lot, the issue was that the arrows were made of materials nowhere near as durable or heavy as later ones and they were using bows that weren't as strong either so they struggled to get through Greek armor, then they tended to send in infantry with shorter spears that struggled to really get in and hit the phalanx properly. Cavalry could be very effective, if you had heavy cavalry which was geared up and trained for melee combat, which the middle east struggled to produce in the era where phalanxes were seeing widespread use (it wasn't until over a century later that they started being able to regularly produce good heavy cavalry). It wasn't until the development of the maniple system that a real counter to the phalanx came along and even then it was kind of just using a phalanx broken up into chunks and wasn't always effective. People in the past generally weren't stupid, if there was a simple way to defeat a phalanx in even a fifth of all battles then the phalanx wouldn't have caught on like it did and certainly wouldn't have done as well as it did for as long as it did.

[@McCarthy1776]

And Roman Legionary units were pretty similar to a phalanx. They still had shield walls and spears. May Germanic people used shield walls as well that the Roman's still called "phalanx" because of how similsr it was

[@theicepickthatkilledtrotsk658]

Romas during that period were a force of nature.

[@TheWebsOfCorruptionNeverFail]

...a dealer of Thunder and Death, I am Napoleon, I am Empe..oh wait, wrong time period

[@lollius88]

​@@TheWebsOfCorruptionNeverFail Napoleon is cringe. Roman constitutional Semi-Democratic Republic with checks and balances to prevent one man from gaining too much power > Selfish megalomaniacal warlord who got hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen killed to hold on to his power

[@grismor1884]

Some people are treated specially like "thanks to my supporter this guy and bla bla" and everyone else is just "thanks for the money, dummies

[@giorgiociaravolol1998]

No, archers is not the answer. Homie thinks like darius "a few archers and my best cavalry will defeat them"

[@LelakiKerdus]

What about "mobile archers"?

[@hansoerteras3983]

@@LelakiKerdus If it were that easy, Alexander wouldn´t have conquered the way he did. Look at the formation, imagine all ranks except the first 5 are waving their sarissas in the air, they are not standing still. Hardly any arrow will come through without beeing hit and deflected in some way. And for those that come through, they have helmets, shields and some form of breastplate.

[@HistoricalWeapons]

Slingers with unlimited ammo will defeat pikemen without cavalry

[@lawrencedarmawan3164]

How the persians stoped it: sending light infantry to brawl against heavy infantry

[@mecruz]

The way to beat a phalanx formation is to ally with rival Greeks city states as the Romans did. Both battles shown were not Roman vs Greek but rather “Roman and Greek allies” vs other Greeks. 0:25 Battle of Magnesia: *Romans and Greeks of Pergamon* vs Greeks. 1:00 Battle of Cynoscephalae *Romans and Greek allies* vs Macedonian Greeks.

[@factspitta7224]

exactly this. people nowadays think some giant Rome vs Greece war took place, when in fact it was more greek cities (tired of macedon's control) allying themselves with romans to overthrow the already decadent macedonian forces mostly

[@laisphinto6372]

Sure but IT was clear that rome reign supreme

[@Windows-Ben]

bro THANK YOU for the tutorial i really needed it

[@unowno123]

just casually ignores how the phalanx enabled alexander to conquer the entirety of the middle east lmao

[@aregulargenericname8794]

Ok and?

[@LordVader1094]

Also phalanx made a comeback and was an incredibly useful tactic for Europeans even when they got guns and cannons

[@LQMSJA]

You dumb or something..? Alexander fought the Persians, not the Romans. The Persians were extremely weak. They had bad infantry, bad spearmen, good archers, and amazing cavalry, but the problem is they didnt have good organisation or equipment etc, they basically just armed their troops with shit and they fought other sort of eastern peoples who sucked more then them. If Alexanders phalanx fought Roman troops, Alexander would be absolutely shit on by the average Roman Century against a block of Macedonian Phalanx, your just the average Macedonian Alexander fanboy...

[@EmperorProtects1]

@@LordVader1094 Pike and Shot is just the phalanx but better

[@thebigcheese8169]

yeah bc ancient generals were stupid

[@yukiko_5051]

And that's why i always put two phalanx unit protecting front and rear in Total War games, while archer stays in the middle

[@supermaximglitchy1]

I was going to say “go around it” and that’s literally what the Romans did

[@crash-testproductions9341]

I mean yes it's mostly invincible from the front, but good luck turning right or left quickly if the unit in front decide to split in 2 to flank you.

[@LelakiKerdus]

This is the reason why Phillip of Macedon invented Companion Cavalry to accompanying his Macedonian Phalanx, in which his son Lexy the Gyatt would exploited it to the max in his conquest of Achaemenid Persia.

[@Dimitri88888888]

is that his real name Lexy the Gyatt 💀 @@LelakiKerdus

[@nickklavdianos5136]

Wait till this guy learns about supporting units, that are present in the flanks specifically to protect the phalanx from such an event happening.

[@bmpixy]

>enemy unit splits in half >split my own phalanx in half to counter them >enemy units in turn split in half to encircle my phalanxes >as a response, my phalanxes split in half to ensure they don't get surrounded >this repeats until every one of my soldiers is paired off with one of the enemy's, thus preventing any of my men from being flanked

[@jaredjosephsongheng372]

​@@bmpixy Im pretty sure that only works if your number of men is equal to the number of enemies. Because if there are enemy forces than your own forces. Then you'll get screwed over if you do that tactic 😂

[@Chaerea_Carmin-Slaanesh_Chosen]

The tool was sufficiently effective for elements of its composition to remain in warfare formations until the 1800’s. However, like all tools it had weaknesses that could be exploited by those trained specifically to do so. The rise of the professional army and innovations in training troops led to the fall of the Phalanx as a military formation, although, like the spear it used, it’s fundamentals remain

[@plingplong528]

What is your definition professional army because army of Philip and alexander is professional army

[@berdduck]

Underestimation of the Phalanx, Alexander used that and other units to conquer most of Asia minor. They could defeat the Roman legions, such as in Asculum, although at a high cost at times. Pyrrhus did say "If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined." After Asculum. The thing about the Romans is that they had a MASSIVE population to call on so losses weren't so bad, they didn't put their eggs in one basket. Darius used arrows and they didn't work so well. The Phalanx was quite effective, especially when paired with good terrain, and supporting units.

[@therealfsh]

Dont forget catapults or trebuchets or ravines with boulders ontop to be pushed in Big rocks are great weapons

[@padalan2504]

Bear in mind the same armies that defeated this formation struggled to handle a bunch of barbarians running up on them and lads with bows with the biggest fleshy target short of an elephant just bellow them.

[@pauloamaral6069]

That Guy speaks as If It was him who cracked the secreto behind a Phalanx Thousands of years ago. EGG OF COLUMBUS BRO! Until Roman period Nobody knew How to do that, a proof of How powerfull and incontested this formatinho was at the time.

[@mememan2.074]

I don't think that's what he's doing

[@KaaxItzam]

Perhaps not the best example as everyone know the world was round before Columbus. In addition, I doubt that ancient people didn't know how to defeat a phalanx, just that it was easier said than done (I.e. they were guarded by peltasts and cavalry). For example the Spartans were ambushed by skirmishers at Lechaeum and were defeated using more flexible infantry long before the Roman conquest.

[@pauloamaral6069]

@@KaaxItzam EGG of Columbus IS Just an expression bro, dont be phony, i didnt EVEN touch the question about the worlds form. And no, Nobody defeated the Phalanx as long as Hellenism prevailled, they were the reason the macedônia Army could Conquest só much in só few time. And Alexander knew the weakness of It lied on the flanks and on manouvering, Thats WHY he used the cav on the sides. It fell INTO obsolescence after the Romans became more flexible and coordinated on battle formation. Not EVEN the legionáries could take It on 1 x 1, they needed to force the fight INTO high ground, uneaven Terrain and other tricks like that. During the War with Epirus its Said that the Phalanx fighter were already badly trained and equiped.

[@pauloamaral6069]

@@mememan2.074 I Hope were talking about the bearded Guy, not the Channel creator. The Guy was kinda smug "There IS people in 2023 that dont know How to break a Phalanx". Dont know, sounds arrogante.

[@mememan2.074]

@@pauloamaral6069 well duh it's 2023. More than 2 millennia when the Romans countered the Macedonian phalanx sooooooo

[@ailediablo79]

It was used even after. The square formation is an improved version. It is not completely useless. It was used in 7th century and beyond. It just was used less often. Arrows and flanking is problems that can easily be fixed.

[@yoankyun4394]

romans: hah, they finally realized how stupid and impractical having an army comprised of only absurdly long spears is, it is an outdated tactic that'll never work again 1500 years later: pike squares go brrrrrr how to remove the phalanx flank weakness? make a 360° phalanx

[@amelioravictoriadionyssia3323]

Landtraps also work excellently against tightly quartered mobile units. Because they rely on their formation, a simple foot trap such as a caltrop could reduce efficiency of the platoon anywhere from 15% - 75% Im surprised that there is no record of such as a thing as a log catapult. If you could launch a log horizontally into the battlefield, you could incapacitate hundreds of units in a single move. Instead their catapults and trebuchets only seem to launch round particles

[@aaroncarlsback7239]

Girls top popular video: "How to hightlight eyelines" Boys top popular video: "How to stop the Phalanx"

[@whydontyouhandledeez]

The phalanx was a victim of it's own success. By the time Greece fell to the Romans it had been in an arms race with other phalanxes across the Hellenic world resulting in heavier, slower armor and longer, clumsier spears. The end result was a formation that, while much better at defeating other phalanxes, was basically unrecognizable from the Alexandrian phalanx which had been used to fight successfully across hills and rivers.

[@tieradlerch.217]

As CIWS Phalanx, I can relate

[@todo9633]

Pilum could do a number on the shield wall, but some hoplites has bronze coated shields(though it was rare) which would prevent the tip from piercing and forcing them to drop the shield.

[@nithsk]

Who would win: Phalanx Formation A few guys with arrows

[@alexeyamosov664]

People forget that the phalanx by itself was just Alexander’s anvil, his hammer was cavalry, without which those pikes are pretty much useless

[@hidefreek6905]

In reality. Greek-Macedonia only fought against enemies with clearly outdated in warfare or simply barbarians.

[@GAMER123GAMING]

That time they fought "barbarians" they almost lost hah. bro literal band of inexperienced soldiers got into greece thats embarassing

[@teal_m_101]

Agonal warfare? Agoneez nuts.

[@Stryker98]

Peak Furry humor.

[@teal_m_101]

@@Stryker98 You wound me, good sir.

[@samdavenport4604]

I dont like the idea of shaming someone who's trying to learn more about something they're fascinated about

[@theblaze2294]

The archers gangsta till the romans come in with the testudo

[@Golden_Ghoul]

I'd s**t myself too if I saw a War Elephants charging at me.

[@KyloBarley]

“How do you even stop this” Trebuchet: 👁️👄👁️

[@blorb32]

Byzantine flammenwerfer:

[@rpoutine3271]

''Spear is better than sword'' Romans: ''Hold my gladius''.

[@mostsacredstories]

Hard to do when alexander is gaming your leaders and making them fight from unfavorable positions tho. Not to men to mention they were designed to be backed up by cavalry in Dragon's Tooth formation that will be cutting up any opposing formation as you make contact.

[@WalrusWinking]

Scottish Gallowglass running up to them with Greatswords lol

[@ronwaldoreyes1901]

Missiles, RPG's, Archers with fire arrows, take ur pick

[@psychromaniac3525]

"How do you beat this?" By walking faster.

[@norkshit]

the first phalanx to fight against a cannon: “it’s so over bro”

[@Not_Navarro]

Teacher: Wow, where did you learn so well about history? Me: MasterofRoflness memes

[@nickcara97]

As the bear hunt once taught us, “Can’t go under it Can’t go over it Can’t go through it Gotta go around it.”

[@ItHamBoi]

The main issue is that once they start running the phalanx can't stop or curve, so if they get attacks from anywhere that isn't the front they're dead as hell

[@HunterLeon-v2v]

"I absolutely loved this book! The way the author weaved the characters together was masterful and the plot was incredibly gripping. I couldn't put it down. If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend giving it a try. You won't regret it!"

[@NinjaBaiano-br]

I just love that the correct way to defeat this is basically. "This is a spear avoid the point bits."

[@stephena3900]

Macedonian: so you're telling me you could throw these pointy things? Romans:hell yeah we learned it from our enemies

[@ARCAD3BLOOD]

When phallanx was upgraded to husars: Unless you have a tank and machinegun, I'm unstoppable.

[@grimtygranule5125]

Tower sheilds: What arrows? What flank?