Why Stealth Sucks

[@AsadAnjum]

NEW CHANNEL- Video Essay Speedruns: kzbin.info/door/EohrTGj0KOSc40-py0xIAg Link to the Discord- discord.gg/Gcx93UPZh7

[@Nin_tony]

reason: people don't have the patience for it go play the 2 classic thief games and get filtered

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

Honestly the Deus Ex pfp makes so much sense here.

[@weirdbro6597]

The word "filtered" is a bit weird. Because the point of where people start seeing something as a problem rather than a feature gets really blurred. Worst part is when they start to tolerate genuine problems and call it "filtering", Fromsoft haven't fixed their camera for eternity and they're going to get away with it because of their ride or die fans defending them.

[@yonakakurai1737]

@@weirdbro6597 True, but i genuinely believe that games like movies and other medias should focus on a certain public instead of trying making it appealing to everyone. Cuz' most of time that games or movies tries to appeals to every single person, it just comes out a boring mediocre work (Examples: most of Ubisoft games and Hollywood movies). That's why many AAA games feels so soulless, cuz' the executives and "gamer" journalists don't f*cking care that video-games are a form of art too.

[@brandyjohnson738]

That's why I hate it when I would watch people play a stealth game😂 because waiting would make your life so much easier. You're purposely making it hard for yourself because you can't wait. And then they complain about it

[@crafty_badger]

Paint dry watcher opinion.

[@Blurns]

Too much stealth relies on waiting around for an opportunity to do something. And if you hesitate and miss that window, then you've got to wait even more.

[@taylorpennington8126]

If this is how you’re playing stealth you’re playing wrong.

[@taylorpennington8126]

Assassin‘s creed unity dishonored numerous other games allow for fast paced, stealth action that is like no other check it out

[@taylorpennington8126]

Look up stealth gamer br

[@forlornvalley]

​@@taylorpennington8126 StealthGamerBr replays a game countless times to memorize enemy ai, pathing and timing for each level before making his videos. His gameplay does not reflect how a typical player would play a game. His gameplay is amazing, but it came from hundreds of hours of playtime and mastery.

[@austin0_bandit05]

Or you get spotted so you have to hide and wait for them to de-aggro before continuing

[@holymoly8263]

mgs V executed the stealth progression perfectly in my opinion, the more you do something, the more enemies will develop new tactics to defend against yours, such as if you are constantly sniping enemies and shooting them in the head, they will start wearing body armor and helmets, and if you keep infiltrating bases unseen, they will bring out flashlights and spotlights

[@MimikyuDisciple]

That Kind Of Progression Is Why I Love The Batman Arkham Series Of Stealth. Especially Arkham Knight In This Department. The More Harder Predator Sections Feature Guys With Disruptors That Disable Detective Mode, Medics That Can Revive Downed Enemies And Electrify Them To Make Them Immune To Stealth Takedowns from Behind, Guys With Thermal Goggles And Guys With Mines That Make Using Gargoyles Harder, ETC. And That's Only The Enemy Types! Their Behavior Can Also Change To Adapt To Your Playstyle. Use Vents Too Much? Enemies Start Checking Vents. Gargoyles? Enemies Start Shooting Down Gargoyles. Sneaking Up Behind People? Enemies Start Looking Behind Them. Hell If You Use The Voice Synthesizer Too Much, They'll Straight Up Stop Listening To Their Commander! It Forces You To Change Your Strategy On The Fly To Adapt To The Situation And I Love It!

[@matman000000]

It's too bad that by the halfway point, you could buy upgrades and weapons that made stealth pretty much pointless unless you really wanted to be sneaky. Action-focused progression eventually overshadowed stealth progression. Even the scoring system rewarded fast action more than perfect stealth.

[@dunkawunka2278]

​@@matman000000 that's half true, a fast clear time or no traces both guarantees S rank

[@drlostcause4427]

this was a thing in splinter cell pandora tomorrow

[@james849]

MGSV kinda sucks in terms of stealth mechanics?

[@LokiStuartsson]

Speaking of Ghost of Tsushima, I think Sucker Punch was hiring devs who specialised in stealth gameplay mechanics, so Jin fully becaming The Ghost by the end of the game might well mean that stealth will be a much more highlighted speciality in the sequel both character and gameplay wise.

[@RyanG0899]

That makes a lot of sense.

[@AugustRx]

​@@RyanG0899No it does not

[@samuraijackoff5354]

Jin also has a lot of prototype ninja weapons that he uses and plenty that are unused in his base post game. Several bombs, custom throwing weapons, grapple hooks, communication devices and etc. The sequel is looking like he will improves his stealth skills.

[@FemboyKaiSaku]

@@AugustRxokay then

[@Legendary_Honey]

That whole beginning sequence where he "betrays the samurai way" in performing his first stealth kill is very telling as to how the rest of the game is intended to be played out. He says it himself, in order to defeat the mongols who are familiar with samurai tactics, the samurai must adapt.

[@hypVideo]

I dunno if you played the older Thief games but you didn’t just rely on sight to know where enemies are, you hear them too. And not through an x-ray vision feature called “hearing mode” but instead through the sound design; all the enemies have audible footsteps and will talk to themselves or roar frequently. I stop at every corner and door and listen for anyone on the other side in Thief 2. It feels much more immersive than marking enemies to me. I think horror stealth games solve that gratification problem you were talking about. I’m sure people don’t feel rewarded when in the midst of sneaking pass the xenomporh in Alien Isolation or whatever the hell that thing in Amnesia: The Bunker is, but when they succeed they feel rewarded by being spared an encounter with the scary monster they’re afraid of. There's an upcoming stealth game based on the A Quiet Place films, I'm looking forward to it.

[@NerdyGamerReacts]

The Quiet Place is getting a game...no flipping way, that sounds like fun! 🤯💯😃

[@TheRealBlackNet]

and the sound design was great with reverb that let you guess how big the next room was and how far a enemy was away. Love Thief 1 and 2 and Black Parade Mod that came out just the year.

[@Ronuk1996]

Manhunt does this on Hardcore mode you have no mini map but they offten talk allot so you can hear them that way. Older stealth games had much smarter ways to do stealth.

[@gigaport]

He's a zoomer whos primary point of refernce for stealth games is modern asscreed and that weird isometric cowboy game, of course he hasn't played the old thief games.

[@TeakBumblebee27]

holy yappatron.

[@robrick9361]

It's both amazing and pathetic that Thief 1 and 2, games which are older than many of the people watching this video, managed to solve pretty much all these problems while running on hardware that was barely more powerful than a potato.

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

Bold Claim for someone presently within stabbing distance

[@Shadow6OO]

My favorite stealth game, one I even go back to replay every couple of years, is Mark of the Ninja. While the game is fairly linear, the various armors the game provides almost act like slightly different gamemodes that vary from full non-combat stealth to having fewer tools but can teleport to making your kills and the bodies you throw at people actually terrify guards into panicing and causing chain reactions of friendly fire. The tight-knit levels that still offer a ton of different paths and gameplay styles is just such a blast, and I just really wish there'd be more games like it in the market. Edit: My bad, I made this before watching the full thing, he does mention Mark of the Ninja. Sweet.

[@caellanmurphy4751]

if you like mark of the ninja id reccomend RONIN its somewhat similar. and can be just as fun if you like action or turn based(the game only gets turned turn based if your cought)

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

it's weird for me to hear praise for Mark of the Ninja: to me, the game is unplayable because of the character's completely nonsensical refusal to use modern tech (ninja were actually very technophilic historically), and the fact that all the guards are blind unless you're under a spotlight

[@Shadow6OO]

@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 I mean, last I checked (a few months ago), the game has literal supernatural powers in it, so I don't get why you expect historical accuracy from it. As far as the sightlines, basically every single level environment is either dark as heck or light up by lights that you can destroy. Most of the guards you face (especially early on) are low alert where they just kind of decide not to use their flashlights so they don't have that much of a sightline. When they are actually on alert and use their flashlights or you are directly in the light then they spot you very easily. While there are certainly much harder stealth games than it, MotN is on the less forgiving side of alert than most games, so I really don't know what you mean by that, or how either of these makes the game "unplayable" for you.

[@OlegTsvetkoff]

I like the idea of ​​stealth because it sounds cool - you move like a shadow, like a ghost, you are invisible to most, nothing can stop you on the way to your target, or you are a silent butcher cutting down enemies before they even realize what happened leaving behind only the question "what kind of monster could do this?" for those who find the bodies in the morning. But in reality it turns out that stealth in games is incredibly stupid or boring. And if before stealth games were essentially puzzle games, but now they are often just very boring games where you just have to sit for 15 minutes and wait until the characters start moving from one place to another again and if you are noticed then the mission is failed, start over or now you have to fight a whole army.

[@a.c.slater7989]

Most of those games are action games with stealth sprinkled in.

[@einfangirl2351]

​@@a.c.slater7989i mean... a lot of people are praising thief... which is exactly what was just described... you wait for a long ass time for an enemy to go away or to turn their back. And if you get seen you are done anyway so yeah. Full stealth games have that exact issue

[@derchristianausffo]

"Hitman: World of Assassination" is just the Goat of Stealth. Period.

[@sebastiangabaldon4090]

No the old Splinter cell Games are the best

[@derchristianausffo]

@@sebastiangabaldon4090 They're definitely great in Terms of Atmosphere and I just love the Way how they utilize Shadows and Darkness. Especially in the first One. But they just can't reach the Creative Versatility, that "Hitman: "World of Assassination" has to offer to the Player. On my Top List, Splinter Cell is sitting on the 2nd Rank tho, right behind Hitman.

[@upublic]

@@sebastiangabaldon4090 yea no, splinter cell's had great stealth Aesthetics, but they don't even come close to, say, playing (some of the) Hitman games without changing a suit or killing anyone (except target)

[@arenndups5294]

agreed. I think the freelancer mode has got to be the best stealth game ever. No contest.

[@sebastiangabaldon4090]

@@derchristianausffo Hitman is fun and all but Splinter Cell for me is way better

[@_marz03]

I think an underrated pick from the last 10 years for stealth is watch dogs 2. Stealth is incentivised because enemies are actually powerful enough to kill you in just a few seconds. There's a lot of creative things you can do with the hacking to create chaos and distractions, there's also the possibility of doing "ghost" stealth in creative ways with the use of the gadgets, robots, and hacking. And the use of hacking an enemies phone and nearby objects to distract them eliminates the "waiting" phase many modern stealth games have that disincentivizes stealth for a lot of people.

[@itsame7491]

Dude some of the most fun I had was just sitting in the corner and completing an objective without even stepping inside the building even ones. It felt amazing.

[@MarcAlcatraz]

I totally forgot about watchdogs 1-2 those had the right amount of stealth related tools to help you do stealth the way you want to

[@matman000000]

Watch Dogs 2 is soooo much fun. IMHO they should've scrapped guns altogether and only given you nonlethal weapons like tasers and the paintball rifle, that's the best way to play the game and it makes way more sense for a bunch of cheeky hackers trying to take down the system.

[@_marz03]

@@matman000000 I half agree, I feel like it makes sense for them to have guns in the more serious parts of the game when you're killing gang members lol. But I also feel like the game could've done without that story beat

[@CodenamePrince]

The real problem is gamers. Too harsh on stealth and players are turned away because it's not fun. When stealth is forgiving, then hardcore gamers have a problem. So game devs typically lean towards the one that will earn them more fans and/or money. Basic stealth.

[@Akillez]

I don't think stealth sucks, it's just that most modern AAA titles just suck, and add stealth as a tack on like you were going over, which I agree with, but I just.. don't think it's fair to focus mostly on these games though as you said it's more of a afterthought. Problem is that stealth, like real stealth a long the lines of Dishonored, Arkham, Thief, Splinter Cell, Hitman, etc. Those games creates a lot of friction, thing is, players don't have a lot of patience and as you said attention spans are slimmer. Devs are just trying to create titles that can sell, which just resulted in a lot of these games not being present (ofc there's exceptions like Arkham and MGS being very successful and their reasons for not being made atm is very different from the others) but you get the point.

[@austin0_bandit05]

I dont think he ever makes the case that stealth sucks

[@CHEESEpuff69]

​@@austin0_bandit05damn. Guess the title of the vid doesnt exist

[@austin0_bandit05]

@@CHEESEpuff69 Its clearly hyperbole if you watch the video. The video is basically a critique on the shortcomings and pitfalls of designing stealth games and maybe how we can address those problems

[@Blurgamer17]

ADHD killed stealth.

[@RealCodreX]

Cp2077 comes to mind

[@NuevoExistence]

Hitman proves stealth can be done well. Also dishonored and deus ex. Hitman is the golden standard, though! Hitmans reward is when you finally get your target cleanly, in one of tons of ways, few obvious ones❤

[@Ronuk1996]

I would love to see Hitman mixed with Manhunt style brutal stealth take downs would make the perfect stealth game for me.

[@Loktuzov]

In my opinion, the best way to make stealth as a mechanic work is by giving a "soft stealth" approach, meaning you rely more on remaining out of sight than out of mind. Forgiving stealth mechanics can work, but having enemies straight up forget that I just killed someone in front of them kills the immersion. For instance, when I played Ghost of Tsushima, I focused more on remaining out of sight when clearing camps rather than trying to take everyone out with stealth. Opening a fight with an assassination, killing two more people, and then getting out of sight to confuse the enemies was much more fun and much less clunky than just stabbing everyone in the back. I think the best way to describe it would be a "something's wrong, but I don't know what" type of stealth.

[@usmansubhani7482]

I feel like Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory was the best stealth game. It sight and hearing was so important back then. Not just hiding behind walls, you had to use the shadows to move around. Interrogating was also fun back then.

[@dividedstatesofamerica2520]

Hate that I had to scroll this far to find someone who mentioned chaos theory.

[@usmansubhani7482]

I like how early Splinter Cell made you ‘fight stealthily’ by blowing up bombs set earlier while running or jumping on them. It was goofy but I see the potential in ‘fighting stealthily’ since no one has ACTUALLY done it before. The splinter cell example was just an accidental result from how physics worked in that world. Jumping on someone from a higher ground knocks them out regardless. It’s just how physics worked. True ‘stealth fighting’ would be running around while killing anyone who was off-guard.

[@Duranous.]

One of the reasons that stealth is games these days sucks so much is because these games sprinkle in mechanics for all sorts of genres and execute them poorly on average because they are trying to mix everything. Games like Ghost of Sushima or most Ubisoft games these days don't have a single genre label so they are not very focused. So really the reason that stealth sucks is because of the death of video game genres. We're only going to get a true stealth game like Styx Master of Shadows only once and a blue moon as these major companies won't make many games that don't seek to please as many people as possible. Luckily we have some good products coming out in middle market development who understand that making focused genre games is appealing to players and will attract an audience.

[@fobo3361]

ok Arkham stealth absolutely SLAPPED, yeah it was in 2015, but i gotta stand up for how absolutely badass Arkham was, alright sure its not instant KO, but dont upgrade your armor and see how many slip ups you can afford even with smoke bombs and all that jazz, and not the mention the pure style and satisfaction you can get out of arkham? i mean cmon, sure its not the best in the world, but that shit will make you feel like batman definitely makes me sad tho, seeing how rad mgsV was close to being and seeing that potential stealth could have in a modern titles, could you imagine how realistic and satisfying we could get stealth with today's tech? honestly really excited for mgs3 for this exact reason, camo was the peak system, alotta stealth games have sort of half baked features, like shadows for examples, shadows are either useless, or make you completely invisible and just turn into a safe zone, mgsV fumbled really hard with its poor implementation of camo, we need a number like mgs3 had, but also have that number be effected by shadows more, the best part of stealth is barely not getting seen, just barely slipping by, its why my favorite memories come from pressing against a wall in mgs3 as a patrol of guards walk right past me, NOTHING makes you feel that stealth in todays games, not mgsv not dishonored (ok maybe dishonored, ive had some good moments with blink, but regardless)

[@rapidstress2008]

Arkham games were GOAT ❤

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

yeah, but the enemies are still brain-dead stupid

[@Blaze72sH]

Arkham games are OP. Fantastic stealth.

[@Blaze72sH]

​@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 enemies in Arkham? They have one of the best AI.

[@TapperTheClock-re2gs]

@@Blaze72sH I remember my first time playing Arkham Asylum. Going through a stealth encounter and then seeing the enemies chain formation to be back to back to each other when they realised I was there and that sold me in the arkham games so much

[@madisons2117]

RDR2: Remain undetected Me: I will not, but I will let you pretend I did.

[@matman000000]

There are some cool new stealth games in the indie scene: Filcher - basically Thief in a 1930's mob setting Gloomwood - a mix of Thief and survival horror Thief Simulator - haven't tried it yet, but seems like a fun play on Thief as a modern low life burglar Party Hard - basically if Hitman's objective was to kill everyone in a level Intravenous 1+2 - a mix of Hotline Miami and tactical stealth

[@zyblurish206]

A strangely obvious but still very effective strategy to increase immersion and also the stealth experience in many games is turning off the hud or at least turning off as much that's not "necessary". You will make almost any game harder (if it isn't already created with that vision in mind) which is probably also the reason why most people don't use that option in games but i think it can create a big difference. Your vision and the games sound design become a lot more important and the tendency to rush into any stealth scenario without fully knowing what's waiting for you creates a far more unpredictable but also more satisfying stealth experience even though the systems might be barebones. It's in general a great way to experience a game "more naturally" so it doesn't get too predictable and calculated to create a experience that challenges your knowledge of games and forces you to adapt.

[@hypVideo]

@@zyblurish206 Sure but I still want a visibility gem on my HUD. Everything else can go.

[@brandonclarke436]

Another thing the last of us 2 did excellently

[@thenotorious4464]

I didn’t watch the whole video yet but the moment I saw sly cooper 2, which was the first game I ever played at 3,5 years old and imprinted in me the stealth mechanics that I searched in every game I played growing up, I knew it was gonna be a really educational video. Props to u man

[@buttonmashgamer2143]

In AC Revelations there's a quest giver inside restricted territory. Then the cutscene Ezio showed up behind the quest giver all cool like. It think that's one of great way to show how cool stealth character is.

[@itsame7491]

TloU 2 had some sick stealth action sections, the AI felt unrelenting. They will hunt you down but man, running from cover to cover popping some heads in between, scrambling for any advantage feels so good. Stealth combat and movement in harmony and man tht game becom s untouchable. Like please naughty dog, can we have a full game like this without having to sit throught 15 hours of cutscenes

[@LalitGudimetla-r3z]

Grounded stealth is perfection.

[@wander7812]

Anyone who likes Stealth games and Ninjas, should play "Tenchu Z". Its pretty much Assassins Creed Stealth, except if AC Stealth was good.

[@TheWrathfulOni]

Aragami 1 was a very good stealth game, being spotted isn't an automatic failure but with how combat works, it might as well be, you lose points for being spotted or if bodies are discovered and the game rewards you with cool skins for killing everyone on every stage, not killing anyone, never raising suspicious/being seen and by defeating the game on higher difficulties. A good stealth game where play with the shadows is your best friend.

[@markphillipkaliika2006]

Although people don't like Star Wars: Outlaws, I love how the enemy ai is really smart and you'll get spotted very easily. I had to adjust my stealth play style for this

[@JMNK17]

Man I really loved Aragami 2 (never played the first one though i'll maybe try it) It allowed you to go loud, but it was so hard you almost couldn't really a hitman scenario. But it also didn't feel too slow due to your abilities teleport, while not making you a god by limiting it to shadows.

[@ognjenilic3001]

As a giant Aragami fan ( R.I.P Lince Works ), while I love both games, I have to admit, I definitely prefer the first one a bit, it’s such a treat if you like hardcore stealth games. To name a few of the reasons: 1. Going loud isn’t an option entirely. Enemy weapons are infused with light, and since your body is entirely made of shadows, guards _will_ one-shot you. 2. You have to be very methodical about your kills. For example, there is no way to pick up or move bodies, you need to unlock an ability in order to dissolve them completely. This means that before you unlock it, you have to be mindful of when and where you kill, so that either no one sees it, or it gives you enough time to get rid of other enemies. And when you do unlock it, you still have to be careful as dissolving bodies takes time, and you’re completely vulnerable during the process. 3. Traversal feels very fun. Unlike in A2, you can teleport to every shadow ( probably a good thing considering how fragile you are ), and can even create your own to teleport to. Shadows overall play a much more important role in A1 gameplay-wise, as your energy, which is needed for almost all skills, will not regenerate unless you’re currently in a shadow. 4. It’s a lot more immersive, at least in my opinion. There’s very minimal HUD elements ( mostly just showing you button prompts ), and the game sort of pulls a Dead Space by making your energy meter not part of the HUD, but part of your character ( displayed on the cape ). Overall, A2 is a lot more arcade-y than the first one, and if you prefer that, then that’s fine! But if you’re looking for a hardcore stealth game, I’d say A1 is absolutely worth checking out.

[@Freelancer837]

It sucks especially when you look at the biggest stealth series as well. MGS? Turned into an action game and died. Splinter Cell? Turned into an action game and died. Assassin's Creed? Turned into an action game (not dead but pretty bad). Hitman? This one somehow never lost touch and is perfectly surviving untouched. Experts still can't explain because no one else cares to try and make another AAA stealth game. So while most of the big stealth series did die and disappear, it happened when they stopped being stealth games, and the only one that didn't stop being a stealth game is doing insanely well. Seems like the usual suspect is just investors who want to reach the "broader audience". I feel the idea of "Game is hard and too punishing which frustrates audience" doesn't work as a reason for why these games died off when one of the biggest genres out there right now is Soulslikes. And those don't even offer anything else but those aspects that are supposedly the reason why stealth games died where most stealth games at least have often a story or something such as that to enjoy other than the gameplay.

[@Herrrsus]

Sorry but MGS turning into an action game is nonsense. And then died? Which MGS turned into an action game? MGSV has more action, if you chose action but MGS never diluted its stealth. The splinter cell example has merit though and Ubisoft can just get lost.

[@shaunakdeshpande3837]

​@@Herrrsus it seems that you, just like most of us, chose to forget about Metal Gear Survive

[@Herrrsus]

@shaunakdeshpande3837 that is true (what a disgrace of a game). Although im more convinced MG SOLID was up for discussion strictly

[@majorblitz3846]

Hitman is more of a puzzle stealth game, they treat stealth like solving a series of puzzle pieces that seemingly far apart yet can be use to perform a perfect execution. So I guess they add a complexity of NPC interaction with player, interaction with another NPC and NPC archetypes, making it less of a "literally wait until NPC do something" and more of a "Find a way to approach target A with minimum mess possible" Alternatively, you can screw the puzzle and just throwing a random objects you picking up on your way toward army of guards, it is a viable method as well albeit get significantly less points at the end of mission (Still, you must admit many will consider it's the fun that count)

[@enman009]

Disagree about Assassin's Creed. That franchise always was shallow with stealth, relying on the equally shallow combat, like the 3rd act of AC1, the Ezio Trilogy and most of AC3 and AC4. And yeah, MG Survive is bad. Fortunately MGS is releasing Delta, which looks much more polished than the original MGS3. Every other stealth franchise is either Hitman or dead.

[@marekbursik3074]

Say what you want but playing TLOU on Survivor or Grounded difficulty drastically changes the playstyle and TLOU2 especially turns into great survivor horror/Stealth game

[@rh3280]

GTFO is the best stealth experience ive played in recent years and most people debate its acual stealth status

[@dave9515]

Spiderman 2 had good stealth. The Ai were not that dumb and there was ways to distract them and towards the end of the game Kraven's goons have bases you are supposed to quietly infiltrate and you get the ability to take out more than 1 at a time but have to be careful also they kill you extremely fast if you try to fight them head on so while you can fight them its heavily discouraged. I don't think stealth is inherently bad or that most people hate it but idk either. Some of my favorite parts of games are stealth sections. Just make stealth fun which i think is just having players get tools and enemies tools that serve to fight each other and as you get further enemies grow smarter to try to counter your stealth as you get more and more cool abilities. The idea of living out a childhood fantasy of roleplaying as a ninja will never not be cool. Stealth just needs to evolve in some way. Also an open world stealth game could work just not a traditional open world where you can go anywhere at any time.

[@sebastianherrera6514]

I am convinced that if you dislike stealth you’re just bad at it.

[@jokerofspades-xt3bs]

Agreed

[@phantomninja2833]

Exactly

[@lebroncarter4902]

Most people write it off as bad because most games implement it very horribly or lazily where it isn't fun or engaging and does not feel rewarding whatsoever

[@huskiefan8950]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="647">10:47</a> "players want more control over.....who they wanna bone".....ya, how weird, to want control over that 😂

[@morbid1.]

Stealth game requires patience, observation, time, planing... traits that modern gamers do not have. Other thing is stealth is a gimmick right now, even Elden Ring has stealth, Spider-man has stealth "section" for no fucking reason. It's annoying.

[@doonrat9409]

Spider-Man uses stealth in media quite a lot so they likely felt compelled to tack it on

[@ducvuminh8181]

"Modern gamers", more like 996-job gamers who barely have time to play. Look, stealth needs to teach players to be patience and that is undeniable, but there's a reason popcorn stealth exists. This system exists as a response to respect the players time because honestly, I don't want to get stuck in a mission for 1 hour just because I offed aa man by a speaker rather than a jumping rope, especially when I only have more than 1 hour to play and my kids start calling his dad to wipe their asses after having a poop.

[@behemoth-g6k]

All the dark souls game had a bit of stealth. It was aimed at pvp but pve it kinda works since the first game

[@tristanh7007]

@@ducvuminh8181it doesn’t exist to account for time its literally implemented because peoples attention spans are so shit now.

[@EthanMastercrafter]

One of my favorite horror games of all time is Alien Isolation and it is purely a stealth based game, i like how underpowered you are because it always keeps tension and makes it so i have to be resourceful and smart

[@elbuglione]

The ultimate stealth game was Metal Gear Solid V... Stealth game is dead when Kojima (the creator of the stealth genre) abandon the stealth game genre.

[@Dark._._.]

the newer ghost recons had so much potential, ima tom clancy fanatic and i couldn’t understand how people absolutely hated the 3rd person aspect, but they did absolutely flop on breakpoint, it was only better than wildlands because of the more realistic looking animations the camera and your character don’t feel as stiff…

[@GBelmont87]

Unfortunately it’s just a shitty mgs5. It has interesting mechanics and ideas, but the execution is poor. If it was much more refined and mechanically sound, it would be so so good. But every time I go back to it all I can think is “I could just be playing Phantom Pain right now”

[@Dark._._.]

@@GBelmont87 what’s worse is the animations that keep it from being worse than wildlands were implemented later..💀

[@GBelmont87]

@@Dark._._. I haven’t played wildlands, should I? I’ve heard conflicting things and never wanted to buy all the dlc

[@Dark._._.]

@@GBelmont87 it’s def good to me cause i automatically like every tom clancy title i got over 2k hours between the divisions and another 1k between the ghost recons, the story is better, but the animations of the character and the camera make it feel very robotic, i make no hud videos on breakpoint because it looks smoother visually, but as far as the story goes for a play through, wildlands all day👍🏻

[@superc5845]

I feel that the horror genre is the only safe haven for stealth in games. In horror games, stealth is alive and well.

[@anotherrandomguy8871]

Most of the time when I play ghost recon wildlands, at first I try to go stealth, fail, then say fuck it, go agro because at that point it feels like all I did was waste my time trying to act all tactical.

[@AndrewAnstrom]

Asad, I really like your writing, delivery and editing... super polished man...I hope your channel grows appropriately.

[@boardasf699]

This dude clearly never played a batman arkham game

[@icommitdie8756]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="465">7:45</a> This is especially true when it comes to MGS, because the combat is typically really clunky and enemies will follow you if you’re still in alert, so if you get caught hiding before you get into evasion phase, it’s essentially over for you

[@enoo9003]

Last of us II on grounded is a pretty great stealth experience, it’s a completely different experience to playing on lower difficulties. Edit: also getting caught doesn’t feel like an instant fail state, sometimes getting caught can even help you as it makes enemies scatter a bit or move to different positions.

[@haydenrhead7692]

It’s very underrated in alot of its gameplay due to the story. I played on survivor and it gave me an incredible stealth experience that was rewarded through keeping ammo and such.

[@Nether_Nova0]

Nice to know people do see now, How most recents game have similar type of stealth mechanics. Btw W editing on the vid.

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

Yeah sharp editing!

[@Modie]

Tbh, I think Dishonored is a quite good idea to design a stealth game. You have a bunch of different powers that you can use, especially in the second game, that allow for different routes to take, even when in stealth. And getting spotted isn't an immediate fail state. Yes, your "chaos" meter grows, but getting spotted once or twice isn't actually a big issue. You still get the "low chaos" route. I think the main "failure" of that game is the presentation. As you pointed out, it shows you how often you get spotted at the end of a level and therefore making it seem like the game is critcising you when running away without killing anyone can be a good option (some might even say a better one in certain circumstances). Similar thing with how many people you killed. If the game would present this a bit differently as in "It's okay to be spotted or even kill someone as long as it doesn't become the rule" then I feel less people would be discouraged from just playing on. Another good example for a Stealth game in my opinion is funnily enough Assassin's Creed, but not the main games, but the 2D one that they published at one point. This one works with vision cones and similarly, getting spotted isn't the end. The fighting is a bit hard, but you can get through the game/level without being stealthy. The only reason for why you want to stay stealthy is because you get a better medal at the end of the level. There is no actual benefit to the medal. There is no low chaos, high chaos, it's YOU who wants that medal, but it isn't required. And in addition to that, it not only gives you more points for stealth, but similarly to Dishonored more points for not killing anyone. However, in comparison to Dishonored, there aren't any non-lethal options, so if you want to do that, you have to start playing in a different way to AVOID the enemies instead of silently killing them. Furthermore, the game is quite fast paced for a stealth game, introduces new mechanics and expects you to use them quickly. Lastly, single levels aren't that long, so if something goes wrong you can quickly reset and try again, so a failure doesn't feel too brutal.

[@Maclues]

One of the advantages Batman Arkham stealth has over other games is you are not forced to stay in one position while you hide and wait for you enemy to get into position. You have the verticality of the perches to swing between and vents in the floor you can enter allowing you to tackle the stealth section from any starting point. Compare this to other stealth interactions in games which is usually you waiting for an opportunity to move which is simply boring gameplay. Stealth games need to give the player the ability to move around a level so they can better understand the map layout and create opportunities to take out enemies in a seemingly endless variety of takedowns. In batman a single guy standing next to a ledge can be takendown from the ledge, from behind, moved to take down from a perch, with explosive gel, overloading their weapon and shocking them into firing, hacking a drone to shock them, and countless orherways to fuck with this one guy. And every enemy has that many options for how you take them out with an average of 6 enemies in an encounter.

[@lucky6961]

games have become too much expensive, companies try to buy audience with pretty graphics and then it's no longer viable to make a genre focused game, as a result the games loses personality and stealth is usually left as a tree path to focus, like ghost of tsushima allowing you to use levelups as skill points Also stealth becomes a "cheese mechanic" very quick on action games, getting the classic tall grass to remember people that stealth exists, but you end up with some form of exploit(I still recall beating any Shadow of the Tomb raiders areas piling corpses around a bush) I'd not say that the instant gratification is a problem but the punishment being story wise, dishonored had the issue of punishing high chaos but somewhat forcing most players into it unless they save scum, the entire world around you gets worse with low honor while it leaves pure stealth as more of a perfectionist thing which is frustrating. If you're playing something like lies of P, a souls like, just get back to where you died, you get your ergo back and done. Arkane did fix the system on the second game allowing non lethal combat which is awesome, specially with the more complex skill tree I don't think stealth sucks, the thing is that those games are using it as a feature not a genre making it feel dead

[@Liquid_Thom]

Ik its caught a bad reputation this last year but payday 3 actually has really fun and refreshing stealth gameplay with the different tools and perks to match your style or mission. Like placeable microcams and hacking perks for cameras and the like

[@FrankCapybara]

I haven’t watched the whole video yet but the entire Metal Gear franchise better be the exception

[@KJ4284-w9s]

Who here played Time Splitters 2? Specifically the level where you had follow the one character, unspotted? Forgot the name of the level but had tons of fun with that playing co-op with my cousin.

[@kylor1962]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="137">2:17</a> I'm afraid it's been... Nine years

[@theskeletonman2092]

Tbh loud stealth should be more of a thing in games stealth where you use distractions and fast movement to not be spotted and all that waiting for an opening does is get you discovered

[@curiousconsultant7922]

I don't think Hitman is so niche that it can't be replicated. Sure, the whole outfit swaps thing is recognizable, but otherwise it's still a stealth game where one guy kills a target or more in a secure environment without alerting anyone of his presence. It can even be done while only wearing a suit, which is wild to think they managed to give that option without sacrificing creativity. It's sad that we don't get Splinter Cell or Metal Gear games anymore. Even though they both sold incredibly well in their time and built a large fan base. Not even corporate greed could keep the mill running on them.

[@crispybacon9917]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="571">9:31</a>, OK man you got me

[@sisyphus69420]

I really like the stealth system in Farcry 3. Yes, it’s popcorn stealth and yes there are ways to track enemies behind walls. However, there are various takedowns that you can do. There are ones that are completely silent like knife throws and ledge grabs and others that help you in the midst of combat, such as starting an enemies grenade or pulling out their pistol and gunning down surrounding enemies. The only way you can perform one though is by hiding and getting the jump of them. You can go full stealth in the midst of a gunfight by diving into a bush and then pop up, stab a guy in the back, and push his body with a live grenade into his buddies. Its a great balance of stealth and combat, allowing you to go full stealth for prolong periods of time with different takedowns or a stealth-combat-repeat kind of cycle.

[@swordguy1243]

Splinter Cell was Peak

[@matejbobrovsky8665]

TLOU part 2 have kind of half stelth where enemys don't know where you are if they don't see you. So you can just kill loudly two people, hide and repeat. But you can copleatly stelth throug some incounters. So on harder difficulties it seem like more compex stelth and I love it.

[@slipstream7324]

sitting in a bush or tall grass ruined stealth for me they're just safe zones everywhere now and the concept is ridiculous

[@ramchu3900]

whos gonna tell him arcane is closed and there will be never be a dishonnored 3

[@DarkStarFuri]

The branch that closed after Redfall failed wasn't the same team that made Dishonored. They are still around

[@f145hr3831jr]

And it's not as if Dishonored 2 was any good to begin with.

[@thebrandunsafeone7184]

​@@f145hr3831jr you are WILDING

[@tinytony960]

If you get caught in arkham games and its NOT on purpose, youre playing the game wrong

[@lightinabox6931]

A Stealth game to surpass Metal Gear...

[@lebroncarter4902]

Splinter cell did it right, hardly anything else has ever done it correctly since besides metal gear solid 5. Cool thing with it is you can knock people out but they will eventually get up, but if you make them surrender on the ground were their conscience, they won't get back up at all unless somebody discovers them, or you alert the other soldiers which was pretty cool. There's a lot of hidden features in it like making soldiers drown themselves, if you put them in a body of water having them on their stomachs. And making them surrender they will go face down and not do anything to keep their self out of the water, and therefore you don't have to worry about them. Also stealth and ghosts of Tsushima was pretty badass as well. I know some people are going to mention the thief series, but I never really cared about it so yeah.

[@oceangalaxy704]

My problem with stealth features in games nowadays is the weapons. They set you up on a stealth situation, but you have one silence pistol and 10 different machine guns. Why wouldn’t I pick the machine guns?😂

[@dbdoxr]

Splinter Cell Chaos Theory is the best stealth game because you can literally get within one inch of the enemy in pitch black darkness and not be seen.

[@jacobsweeney9463]

You should have why stealth suck if you do it wrong

[@FAKKER_rap]

Someday ill make a movement stealth game where fails force you to parkour away to get back to anaware state

[@santiagomontiellaverde74]

uncharted 4 and lost legacy have suprisingly good stealth, that blend in correctly with the movement and parkour mechanics besides ghost stealth (not killing anyone) is narratively supported by the plot, as a lot of scenarios that start in stealth can be passed without having to clear an entire area (two trophies are about going through two areas fully ghost style), you can jump over enemies and take them down that way, from under, and in multiple quick ways, it feels frenetic, even if it is stealth also if you enter combat and hide for a while , stealth is resumed, in a search kind of mode, Grenades don't make them instantly spot you, but it can trigger reinforcement scripts if the enemies know you are somewhere i completed multiple playthroughs in stealth because I found it fun by what it is

[@TeakBumblebee27]

Stealth is GOT is not supposed to be real life. Its an arcade type game, and sometimes irl there will be major blind spots.

[@brassbandit3060]

Using Jacob as an example for optional stealth feels wrong tbh

[@wjzav1971]

In the early game in Ghost of Tsushima, Jin has the fortitude of a butterfly and none of the cool combat skills that make him a tank in the late game. So thinning the horde is absolutely necessary if you don't want to get swarmed by Mongols who need only two hits to kill you. Also in the Arkham Games, you only get one smoke pellet per encounter, so if the armed thungs spot you a second time, they can absolutely obliterate you, even if you try to get away quickly. I do agree though that alerted enemies could be smarter about searching all the nooks and cranies and being more attentive. Maybe more games need an Evasion Phase like in Metal Gear Solid 2 where guards actively check hiding spots and a Caution Phase where they are more vigilante while on patrol.

[@ogPunkcln]

We all know deep in our hearts that games that do stealth right by making players afraid of the enemies and the main objective of not getting caught are the horror games. It's just the feelings you get are different when you replace armed grunts with ghosts, monsters and aliens.

[@Zandofle]

The only stealth game I played recently was a game called Wildfire by Sneaky Bastards, and I thought it was great! Not only could you stealth through levels, but you could also speedrun levels. Or just light everything on fire. One of my only 2 complaints was that you get 48 total equipables that provided extra abilities, but you could only ever use 3 at a time.

[@johslekven7152]

You have some great video ideas!

[@MarcAlcatraz]

Mark of the ninja works because everyone’s vision is limited so it’s much more manageable. I enjoyed my time playing it.

[@GreyMatterShades]

Great job as always! I do think you missed out on one genre where stealth can still be an integral part of the experience, and that's horror. In that genre (or theme?), slow paced stealth and instant (often horrific) fail states add tension and stakes that really work with the game's main appeal. I'm thinking stuff like Alien Isolation and the early stages of RE7, but I know there are other examples. Good luck with the second channel! Gonna check it out now.

[@12DAMDO]

the idea of distincting "Popcorn Stealth" from "real" Stealth is interesting because it might explain why i love Assassin's Creed but why i find Metal Gear or Hitman frustrating (i don't hate either of these games, but i'm just listing examples to showcase the clearest distinction between the 2 genres) i wonder if Assassin's Creed fans are even truly a fan of Stealth like they say they are, because everybody's least favorite missions are the tailing missions, which imo come the closest (aside from the occasional assassinations where you have to blend in the crowd) to what most real Stealth games are like.. (but it could also be the way it's implemented, idk) i'd also argue when played right, Halo ODST counts as a Stealth game too, and a proper one at that... i guess distincting Popcorn Stealth from Strategy Stealth also works for FPS with Classic Shooters (Halo, Doom, etc) vs Competitive Shooters (Call Of Duty, Battlefield, etc), in which case i like Classic Shooters better, because Competitive Shooters make me hate the genre as a whole..

[@NerdyGamerReacts]

Dishonored 1 & 2 are brilliant action stealth games, where you can play it all run and gun and take everyone out, or slip into stealth at anytime and back out, that and TLOU 2, games like that for me are brilliant, great video! 😃

[@TheBeastCH]

Assassins Creed Shadows is NOT a sequel to Ghost of Tsushima.

[@cottoncandyenthusiast8371]

Putting this here because I feel very confident and it would take a lot to persuade me otherwise but the feeling of being 3000 meters away from an enemy and doming them with no hesitation will never not be satisfying Haven't gotten an Arkham Knight stealth experience where you just go behind them and a cutscene activates for a few seconds in a while so I'll have to get to that... in a few months (I have so many games I haven't even touched...) anyways, you can tell me that stealth shouldn't be present in a game cause it doesn't fit the themes and I'll just be taking out the enemies one by one every chance I get cause it gives my autistic brain more dopamine than I ever could wish for

[@brandyjohnson738]

The reason why hate it is when I would watch people play a stealth game😂 because waiting would make your life so much easier. You're purposely making it hard for yourself because you can't wait. And then they complain about it.

[@crimsonfoxonusae4472]

meanwhilei n metro exodus. *The light on the watch blips blue of a micro second in front of a enemy* *Hells break loose, you got a bad end for going loud. Restart mission*

[@George_M_]

What's that, you wanted to fire a gun at a humanoid enemy in a FPS? You must be evil!

[@wormy7279]

Praise the Fish

[@simpleman6771]

Payday 2 has the best stealth BY FAR.

[@johngrizis]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="225">3:45</a> I agree with most of these games being "the plain doughnut" of stealth, but the last of us 2 doesn't deserve to be part of that category. It has one of the best, most well refined stealth systems I have ever played, with intelligent AI, creative level design, and very well polished gameplay that make it so much fun to play.

[@ToothpasteJuice]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="110">1:50</a> uh oh, internet beef incoming

[@RedAuditor]

I wouldn't say stealth sucks a lot, it has helped me in completing many games that has a stealth mechanic. So really, it depends on the way on how you play the game

[@Prikense]

stealth has to really be all about planning the route, that means having access to the map and patrols from start, and then the player has to improvise in case of fuckups which really you want to minimize. Sadly nobody wants to stare at a map for 1 hour before actually trying, and the trial and error aproach is frustrating for most people

[@hungryhedgehog4201]

I miss the stealth in something like Sniper Elite 4, where alerted enemies would never return to relaxed state and would alert nearby guards so if you didn't pay attention you could quickly have the entire base looking for you, completely removing patrol routes and making enemies extremely unpredictable.

[@Fintastrophe21]

I agree completely with this video. Watch mod of playing phantom pain with 300 percent sightlines and hearing. THAT is a step in the right direction.

[@Uncle228]

Reject stealth embrace rubber ducky

[@bristleback3614]

I don't over sale Tenchu but it had a good stealth mechanic. So instead an x-ray hearing vision, you got a Ki or Chi meter to sense a danger and it's realistic because if you're in enemy territory or in dangerous place you'll become more aware with your surrounding

[@bunathan2485]

*the last of us 1/2* “fun alternative” *flashbacks to grounded mode*

[@nikodesz]

mgs5 still has the best stealth, and that shows how much improvement there is to stealth in games

[@DarkLore1992]

The Plague Tale duology certainly made stealth difficult. Way too easy to get caught if you're careless. At least in the first game so far for me.

[@DaddyFaIIen]

Ngl steath always annoyed me because as he said you start at 100% and when seen you immediately go down to 0% I don't remember what game it was, but if you were to get seen from afar you'd throw a kunai or some type of projectile to kill the person that saw you in a small time window before he alerts others, and in closer ranges you'd kill the person up close and THAT felt like good stealth since the time window for these actions was short but just short enough to where it'd feel rewarding to actually land the said counter to being seen.

[@McCaroni_Sup]

I don't know about the game you're talking about but it sounds like MGS V's reflex mode.

[@Chasm9]

This is a very well-thought out essay 👍That pop corn stealth comparison is spot on.

[@Blurgamer17]

Siphon Filter. Tom Clancy's: Splinter Cell. Metal Gear. Deus Ex. Thief. Dishonored. Just a few stealth-oriented games that anyone would either recognize or would have played if they're old enough to have been there on release.

[@Martin_McFryy]

should we tell him, that arkane studios doesnt exsist amymore?