How to Time Espresso Shots | Button Push or First Drip?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Corrected Chart at 3:00 lifestylelab.ca/dialing-in-breville-barista-express-machines/ Black Mirror Nano: geni.us/fh43K2 Felicita Arc: geni.us/xJAEg Acaia Lunar: geni.us/wg8P (As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases)

[@staglite]

I've a Timemore Black Mirror which I find work very well. I think it was just over $100 Canadian.

[@blacksterangel]

I can attest to the quality of Black Mirror Nano. Aside from espresso mode it also has a flow rate mode which I use every time I make espresso with flair.

[@Epsylon21]

This was my biggest question 5 years ago when I started, it really made me bury my head in the sand. This will definitely help the barrier to entry, great job!

[@YUSince]

Super excellent clear explanation as always 👍👍 After watching zillions of videos and consolidating the information I have decided that my counting time starts AFTER the pre-infusion….since I am using the 878 Barista pro and set the grinder so that the coffee flow come out at 8 seconds, then for 19 gram beans I expect to reach 38 gram yield at around 41 to 43 seconds…..the result is always the best for my personal taste ….at the end, this is what really matters after all😀

[@LifestyleLab_]

Sounds like you've found your sweet spot! Love the Barista Pro

[@alexcoldea810]

Your explanations are absolutely fantastic. I’ve watched all of your espresso videos and the way you manage to dumb it down for beginners is great. Well done! 👏

[@elderuben7734]

Thanks for this explanation. For the past two weeks I’ve been trying to time the perfect shot. Now I know I can just focus on taste. Awesome video productions. 🤟🏼

[@taroman7100]

No way I can depend on the time to espress. I have to many variable with my coffee source.

[@sticky494]

SO we'll explained! You distilled this concept down perfectly

[@majidal-ghamdi6876]

In my own opinion, both methods are correct, every method has its own solid reasons to be considered, and allow me to dig in more details. Chemical reactions starts once the water contact the puck, even if it was occurred during the preinfusion, prewetting or the pump direct extraction. When we start counting the extraction time from the first drop, in fact we are ignoring around 8-13 seconds preinfusion and puck soaking time, until the fluids go out the other side of the basket. Then, it is 25-30 seconds + 8-13 seconds, makes it in total 33-43 seconds. There are 2 roasts levels suitable for espresso coffee, medium and dark roasts. Medium roast compared to the dark roast, has a higher acidity, more flavor complexity, less body and less bitterness. Dark roast, has more bitterness thicker body, less acidity and lower flavor complexity. Extracting a medium roast coffee by start counting the shot time based on the first drop, may be more suitable for medium roast than dark roast, because it will reduce the high acidity and enhance the lower bitterness of the medium roast. When the counting from starting the pump inclusive the preinfisuion, more suitable for dark roasts, it will enhance the low acidity and reduce the high bitterness. Finally, the it is all about your favorite way of having and making your own coffee.

[@GeroLubovnik]

Good video. While consistency is important, the one thing that is not consistent is the bean as it ages. There are times when a bean is too fresh, then comes the sweet spot... and then the sweet spot disappears and you have to dial in again for the changed structure of the beans. Sometimes roaster don't mark "roasted date" on their beans and so you're left guessing how fresh or stale the beans are.

[@andrew_ep_curtis]

Finally someone actually breaks it down properly.

[@TomReinerDE]

That was, BY FAR, the best video on this topic. 👍

[@MorganWhaley]

Always appreciate your balanced approach. I agree - in the end - if it tastes good to you then that is what works for you.

[@jimmystecher5214]

Excellent explanation that actually makes sense. Thank you for videos. They have helped me immensely on my espresso journey.

[@unclekim0]

Agree with you, from my experience, pre infusion + 20s-30s is the best for my tasting.

[@lenhumbird]

You mean from when the pump begins pre-infusion? Or from when the pump ramps up to 9 bar?

[@unclekim0]

@@lenhumbird when the pump start pumping water in the 2nd phase

[@RakanWD]

EXACTLY! If it taste good, the time is good, 50s, or 20s it just doesn't matter but, I always tell people 25~30s from first drip is the best start up equation for a beginner, when he knows the game, start experimenting! Some medium to dark roasts taste delicius when pulled 30~40s! When you know 25~30s rule, you can play around it, and find your sweet shot. Never stick to a rule.

[@zski1]

The definition of Extraction is, the action of taking out something, especially using effort or force. Key words, effort or force. So, for me, I don't count pre-infusion in the total brew time because each machine pre-infuses at different times and how many grams of coffee used. So, to get a more consistent shot, start the timer after pre-infusion has completed and the coffee starts to extract.

[@fpcawolff]

I'm glad you got a better job, Tyrell Welick!

[@DenScan]

So nicely done! Great information, as always. Appreciated!

[@LifestyleLab_]

Thanks for watching!

[@davidddmaoqiu]

Well explained and very clear. Great job!

[@jakevan1969]

Thank you. A much needed perspective.

[@barrygoffe]

Excellent advice that is well presented. Thanks!

[@precisionsoundworksstudio]

Love it. Fantastic vid.

[@vassiliosavlonitis5813]

Good video. I think the main question to answer is: when beans come with instructions / recipe and they recommend a specific time, what do they mean? Here is an example: Recipe: Temp 94C as a starting point. In milk: (16-18g into 34-37g) 24-30 Seconds. So fruity! Apple and citrus in a 9oz drink! More intensity and some cocoa in the 5-boz. In espresso: (16-18g into 45-50g) 24-30 seconds. Intense, fresh apple and juicy currants acidity, a savoury note, and lor lingering citrus. Are the times from button push or first drip?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Exactly, in this case the cafe SHOULD specify. But most commonly they are referring to button push on a straight 9 bar profile. If you have a machine with a long pre-infusion, lower pressure etc... adjust accordingly

[@EarthbendR]

Fantastic video! It was eye opening and extremely helpful. Thank you so much

[@jayaychare7318]

im also led to believe and practice that in general terms are darker roast requires a shorter brew time and lower temp while a lighter roast requires a longer brew time and slightly higher temp. the resultant darker roast extraction tends to be less in volume than the lighter roast. nothing is set in stone though

[@DimHim7473]

I have perfect shot with 32 seconds timming after the first drop.2,2X out.I'm using a single origin coffee and a medium to light roast which if I'm not mistaken needs a little more time to extract.After a 30 min of preheating everything with a cheap Gaggia and a bottomless portafilter.

[@Reesanicole83]

I'm a new espresso machine owner.. didn't realize when I bought it that this was a whole lifestyle! What brought me here was trying to determine whether to start counting at button press, or when I hear the pump engage. I deferred to my manual (Breville Bambino) which says a good pull will take 8-12 seconds for the shot to flow. This is to gauge whether the shot is over- or under-extracted. So starting the count when I see the flow will defeat the entire purpose. But that begs... when do I start counting? When I press the button or when I hear the pump? Probably when I hear the pump right? My 2 cents on the debate matter is: "If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it." There's no need for it to even be a debate; consider what applies to your situation and count like that.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Bingo, taste the shot and be consistent with yourself. All that matters

[@MrKerner1111]

Seriously good content man

[@LifestyleLab_]

Thanks!

[@SarntAKluss]

Hi, i like this chart you showed, only the bottom should be decrease yield instead of decrease i think

[@LifestyleLab_]

Yes! Unfortunate typo, it’s correct in the original dialing in video for the Barista Pro

[@SarntAKluss]

@@LifestyleLab_ great chart! Thanks for showing it!

[@saocir]

Amazing video. Really on point, it all depends what tastes best to you. Thanks! New subscriber here.

[@dr6124]

That nice dialling in diagram at 5:11, why has it fot increase yield twice? Should one not be decrease yield?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Yes, there is a typo. It is correct in the original dialing in video, or website lifestylelab.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Dialing-In-Espresso-Compass.jpg

[@staglite]

That was my big question for a long time.

[@balanced6352]

Good Video! I have a question about the graphic at 3:03 with adjustment recommendations. It displays increase yield for a suggestion for both too bitter and too sour. Should one of these be decrease yield? And if so, which one? Thanks. Nevermind, I found your corrected graphic online with the Too Bitter suggestion to decrease yield. Thank you.

[@alanduong2055]

When is your next video with the DE1? Looking forward to watching that one. :)

[@smdntn]

I've contacted my roasters to get their opinion on whether its total shot time or post-pre infusion time, as their recipe for my beans is 18g dose for 40g yield over 30 seconds. I was originally working once the drip starts, but have now changed to button press (as their demonstration video appears to time from button press), so I restarted my entire dialling in. At least my "pre-infusion" on my Barista Express is consistently 10 seconds. Frustrating

[@ghunterforever]

image at 3:01 is incorrect? how could the solution for too sour and too bitter be the same, which is to increase yield (which typically means finer grind unless you have channeling)

[@LifestyleLab_]

There is a typo, too bitter should read decrease yield. Image in the original dialing video and website article is correct

[@NopeNope78]

Not sure I understand the chart at 3:00. If the shot is watery+sour, I have to either grind finer or increase yield and then below, if it’s watery+bitter, it’s the same adjustment? Is that a mistake in the chart? Because it basically says that if a shot is watery and sour or bitter it’s the same adjustment

[@LifestyleLab_]

Yes, it's a typo. The chart in the article and original dialing in video is correct: lifestylelab.ca/dialing-in-breville-barista-express-machines/

[@NopeNope78]

@@LifestyleLab_ thank for taking the time to reply

[@paulwarda]

at 3:01 you show a graphic/flow chart for dialing in. do you have a video explaining this? i've been looking for something like this and would love to see how you came up with it or explain it in more detail.

[@LifestyleLab_]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/el7Fh2egYr9gqbc

[@kimberlyhilligoss4772]

I was trying to figure this out a few days ago. I've always timed from first drip since my Gaggia Classic Pro doesn't have an automatic pre infusion. I used a breville barista pro that times from button push and wondered if I had been doing it wrong this whole time. I've made enough shots to kind of intuit if the shot pulls too fast or too slow.

[@jamesc8843]

So I have a Barista Pro. Bought a couple bags that say grind very fine and brew for 27 seconds. My problem is the yield with 27 seconds is too low if I go from button push.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Then you need to grind slightly coarser to get the correct yield in the 27 seconds described in the roaster's recipe. A recipe cannot JUST be time, it is an amount of espresso in a certain amount of time, which together denote the brew ratio and flow rate :)

[@michaelaaron5326]

Great video, enjoyed it very much but I was confused studying the graphic for how to adjust shot. Sorry if this was already pointed out but that graphic is different from the one on your website. Increase yield is on there twice. I subscribed and look forward to future content. Thanks!

[@LifestyleLab_]

Yes, this one unfortunately has a typo… the website is correct

[@AchieveBusinessCoaching]

Thanks for another great video! Just wondering what reviews you have scheduled in the near future. I have been researching options for a new semi automatic espresso machine and I have appreciated viewing your videos on options such as the Breville Dual Boiler, the Rocket Apartamento, as well as the Rancilio and Gaggia machines. I have come across another interesting product, the Ascaso Steel Dual PID. There are very few reviews on this product and it appears to compete with products such as the Breville Dual Boiler, but with the use of thermoblocks instead of boilers. Would you be able to include the Ascaso machine on your list of future reviews?

[@LifestyleLab_]

The Steel Duo is very high on my list of machines to get in. I think it provides great value for the price point its at. Not sure exactly when I'll be able to buy one

[@FabFeline]

When doing for a specific ratio, do you stop the pump preemptively to avoid going over, or do you stop it precisely when reaching the target weight?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Whatever tastes best. Such a small difference is unlikely to have a big impact on the end product

[@kgak1008]

Just remember it's supposed to be fun and experimental not necessarily right or correct the dial in process is part of that fun there are so many variables the one thing you can do is try all the shots so you know the good from the bad and have fun trying to create perfection which is different for every one

[@JaylaStarr]

Omg I needed to hear this lol

[@monoplectronic2010]

For whatever reason, I tend to prefer shots that run longer than most... 10-15 second pre-infusion, 35 seconds from first drip to 2.5x output. 52 seconds from lever up to lever down is a magic number over here!

[@PH-gm2qe]

Great video! I, personally, don't understand where the 25g obsession came from.

[@LifestyleLab_]

From people who want a one size fits all recipe because they aren’t confident in their ability to taste and tweak accordingly

[@greypoopon]

Cool video. Thanks

[@midnightrider379]

Hey bud what type of water filtration are you using in your machines. I just got a Gaggia Classic Pro. I’ve been using Brita filtration the last few years.

[@LifestyleLab_]

I use distilled water and re-mineralized just because the tap water in my area is too hard for a Brita to properly handle

[@leticiabarba4933]

Hola ! Si como dices, puedo obtener un buen espresso en 20 o hasta en 50 segundos, me queda claro, pero, cuantos ml. De café extraído son los que debo obtener, también eso depende de mi gusto, o hay una cantidad ? Gracias por el video !!!

[@LifestyleLab_]

The same as shot time, the amount of espresso in the cup is personal to the coffee used and your preference. This is referred to as the “brew ratio”

[@leticiabarba4933]

@@LifestyleLab_ mil gracias por responder !!!! Saludos desde Guadalajara Jalisco mexico !

[@Cenot4ph]

Depends on what you want to measure where you start. If you want to measure overal extraction time then starting at button press would be obvious.

[@topjets5616]

Always good going back to basics, I have a BBE and do a 18 Sec. pre and 10 to 14 Sec. full pressure for 70 ml double from 18g local roasted Guatemalan in my morning Latte :) I don't drink straight espresso too easy for me to drink to much of it, happy coffee making everyone :)

[@JPC326]

Cool video !

[@Miken1974]

Great information, thanks! That crema at 3:00 looks delicious and is a personal end-goal for me. Doubtful I'll achieve it with my second-hand £20 Dedica :D

[@sean9267]

Any budget scales worth buying? Would prefer not spending $100-$200+ on a scale but the cheaper options I've seen on Amazon have mixed reviews.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Depends if you want “features” or just a good scale with a timer. Normcore and Timemore make good quality entry level options. Some good stuff from Brewista and Hario too

[@loutennant99]

Excellent

[@grocerylist]

So basically it's less important to target a specific shot time but more about consistency and dialing in for taste which could be different for different beans and different espresso machines.

[@LifestyleLab_]

BINGO!!

[@salvadorgrimaldi1748]

50 secs shot will not burn the coffee?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Depends on the coffee :)

[@amandapeine6745]

3:01, too bitter -> increase yield ?

[@LifestyleLab_]

It’s a mistake, good catch

[@lenhumbird]

I don't get it. Sour is sour to everyone. Bitter is bitter to everyone. It's when you get to that mid-range between sour and bitter, that's what I want to know about. Does that "sweet spot" commonly occur at the 20-30 second mark from pre-infusion, or from the start of 9 bar, or from 1st drip?

[@udemy_course]

the map is wrong, there should be decrease the yield.... but only increase seems to be appeared

[@LifestyleLab_]

Yes it’s a typo. Correct chart on our website and Barista Pro dialing in video

[@udemy_course]

@@LifestyleLab_ ok but anyway I can’t understand whats the difference between watery and muddy, i mean without tasting, just by the look. It could be nice if you make a video that explains these parts….

[@LifestyleLab_]

@udemy_course you won’t be able to determine anything without tasting. Absolutely no way to dial in without tasting where you’re at. Watery is very thin and tea like, while muddy would be sick and gritty with a heavy mouth feel.

[@udemy_course]

@@LifestyleLab_today i did 27 seconds for 1:2 yield, it tasted great. Vergnano coffee is the best.

[@EvanWeiler]

Trying to transfer shot times from machine to machine is chasing a unicorn. Shot time should only be used to see how consistent you are from shot-to-shot, and frankly nothing else. Taste is king, make adjustments if the taste of your shot isn't to your liking. That said, the answer to the question in the title is always button push. Theres way too much happening before first drip for that time to be relevant.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Yes, that’s exactly how I explained in this video. Did you watch it? What about when trying to communicate your recipe for a specific bean to someone else? No, the answer is most certainly not ALWAYS button push. The reason you stated in your first point is one example why

[@yannickbougard8706]

Hi, thanks a lot for your videos. I am starting my journey and my first post on reddit was about the topic of this video. I bought a bambino and upgraded with the mattow naked portafilter. I noticed that in your past video on that product there was no mention of the included single wall basket. How does it compare to the IMS precision basket you tried? I didn't zoom in on it but to the naked eye it looks well made. Thanks again.

[@LifestyleLab_]

The included Matow basket will be similar in quality to the stock Breville offering. Will still benefit substantially from a purpose made precision basket

[@yannickbougard8706]

@@LifestyleLab_ thanks for the info! Will keep that in mind for a future upgrade. Currently looking into sub 200$ manual grinder. I haven't find review from you on this segment. Any plan to review model such as the Normcore v2 or the 1zpresso Jmax?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Hand grinders are a whole can of worms that I haven’t dove too deeply into yet. Kyle Rowsell has some good roundups :)

[@yannickbougard8706]

@@LifestyleLab_ I can relate to the whole can of worms metaphor based on my research. Which is why I wanted your trusted opinion :). I came across the normcore handgrinder from Kyle's video actually.

[@jnattress]

Is that a Cuts Clothing shirt?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Holy smokes good eye!

[@jnattress]

@@LifestyleLab_ no joke, I’m sat here in the UK wearing the same shirt. go 🇨🇦 !

[@LifestyleLab_]

🇨🇦🍁🇨🇦🍁🇨🇦🍁

[@tommihommi1]

clearly the answer is that both are a gross oversimplification... and time doesn't really matter anyways as long as you're in the right ballpark

[@chadgregory9037]

I would choose to be much, much more rough around the edges when it comes to addressing the bullshit that is online espresso culture.

[@LifestyleLab_]

?

[@chadgregory9037]

@@LifestyleLab_ I agree with you on this. I'm just saying you're awful polite about things haha

[@LifestyleLab_]

Aha, kill them with kindness and FACTS 😉

[@marcelocampoamor4761]

Perhaps simplification is the only viable way for a youtuber when the variables are so many and the knowledge of both the youtuber and his audience are also unknown. Starting with the type of coffee used, its freshness or not, the device used and also the method used to make a "good" extraction that finally ends up being something subjective. Time, extraction ratio, constant flow, constant-variable pressure, portafilter size, grinder, many theories and finally black coffee or milk will be used.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Correct! That’s why I summarized that exact sentiment in this video. Did you watch the whole thing?

[@0xRik]

Left this video more confused 💀💀

[@LifestyleLab_]

Dial into taste, timing only matters if you’re trying to follow someone else’s exact recipe for an exact coffee.

[@lado2041]

Dude, go and listen to your video again! You are like politician, talking forever but no answer to question! You want to please everyone to like your video like politician to vote for him! Stop doing it! Pre infusion time shouldn't be calculated in time of extraction! See how simple is? Let's repeat it?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Someone didn’t listen to the video…

[@lado2041]

@@LifestyleLab_ I did twice, say your opinion be straight forward, I do like your presentations but this video was just 👎

[@LifestyleLab_]

The POINT of the video is that there is no correct answer.

[@lado2041]

@@LifestyleLab_ Actually it is, but at least you can give your opinion! Go check Whole love latte Mark is name of the guy! He explains great! He gives his opinion and explain why! That is way to go!