How to use a noise canceller/phase box to eliminate local noise

If you have been disappointed with using a phase box before, watch this video.
Understanding how a noise canceller works (MFJ-1026 or NCC-1) is crucial to setting up and adjusting the box to cancel local noises. I explain the theory of how they work, and give some set-up and adjustment tips.

[@G0MLC]

Hi Steve, one of the best teaching videos regarding noise cancelling I've seen on KZbin. I think many people show videos using noise cancelling boxes without explaining how they achieve their results or even know how they have achieved them. Thankyou, must have been a school teacher in a former life!!!!

[@AndyAAzeroAM]

Very well done sir. I Have a 1026 but wanted to understand as much as possible before installing. You're video is a tremendous help. Thank you

[@rockymountainhiker8119]

Terrific video! I've "seen the light" when it comes to noise cancelling, and I considered making a video myself. Now I don’t have to because you said everything I would have said (and said it better, too). Elsewhere on KZbin is a useful video to modify the MFJ-1026 using a relay to ground the noise/auxiliary antenna on receive or when the unit is turned off. This is important if your transmitting antenna is close to the noise antenna, like mine is. (A comment from that video said, “When you connect an external [second] relay, you need to set it up so that the normally closed position of the new relay is connected to ground. This will ground the [noise] antenna during transmit, and it will also ground the auxiliary [noise] antenna when the noise canceler is off.”) P.S. Bravo on running a coax down to your neighbor’s house! I laughed out loud! I’ve tried enough noise antennas to know that you have to be tenacious to get that noise onto the noise antenna and into the unit so that you can cancel it out. Good job!!

[@ricsanders69]

Wow...houses are almost touching! Great video...I always wanted to know how these boxes worked!

[@StephenCooteNZ]

Thanks for taking the time to make this video, and thanks for sharing. Well-explained and very helpful. Best wishes from New Zealand.

[@neilriemann4415]

Very interesting. Never thought about this option before. Thanks, Steve.

[@philmaxwell1858]

Loved the graphic and sliding acetate! So nice to see that I am not the only one left who likes paper and pencil (marker).

[@mattj949]

Thank you. This is just so well presented and easy to understand for anyone that wants to use devices such as these to minimize QRM caused by RFI. The clarification about the need to get the sense antenna to get as much of the noise as possible by putting it as close to the noise source isn't understood by many, who wind up just giving up on these devices.

[@Roddy1965]

Excellent, excellent video. Fortunately I don't have necessity yet to need to approach neighbours for noise sources. Though I do get popups of QRM. But, unless the neighbour is difficult to deal with, many suggest it can be easist to speak with the 'offending' neighbour (once identified) and offer to help them fix, replace, or clamp with toroids, the offending devices. Apparently many are sympathetic to hams, if approached nicely.

[@melming8751]

Excellent presentation. Very informative and helpful.

[@n8ux1963]

I started with the QRN squasher design by W1FB (SK) back in 1996. Not long after (1998 I think), MFJ came out with the 1025/1026 (the 1025 does not have a hole for a telescopic whip, which is essentially useless anyway). I still use the 1026 I bought back then... it's an essential part of my station. My NW beverage receives noise from a neighbor's house directly in front of it. I use sainsmart relays (denkovi compatible) to auto-engage the 1026 when I select the NW antenna. Occasionally requires little re-tweaking. As Steve points out, the noise antenna is important. I use a 15' vertical on the roof. de N8UX

[@anthonymuttillo8814]

Very good video. Thank you. I have an NCC-1 and I guess I was never using it properly for noise cancellation however, DXE does advertise their NCC-1/2 as a signal enhancers with signals not necessarily related to noise.

[@paulkoppie2657]

Excellent down to earth video. Thank you.

[@Radio_Activity]

Great explanation. A couple of days ago I received a cheap eliminator for £40. I've been amazed at its performance. The first thing I did was use it with my SDR so I could see visually the effect of tweaking the knobs. I then tried it with my portables. So far I've had great success using the telescopic antenna it came with. I suspect much of the noise is coming from next door. I uploaded one earlier showing how effective it is with my Sangean ATS-909X.

[@user-xl9ed1gi3g]

Very interesting, and very good explanations. Thanks Steve-san!

[@DonauweIIe]

hello. what device is that in your profile picture besinder your screenname ? that looks like a 70s radio, is it ? what brand and model is that ?

[@user-xl9ed1gi3g]

@@DonauweIIe Hi, Steve-san. Thank you for your reply. I use a BCL radio " SONY ICF-5900, we called Skysensor 5900" for my profile picture. Do you know this radio? SONY released this radio in Japan around 1975. ICF-5900 was old radio, but thiradio was high performance BCL radio.

[@DonauweIIe]

@@user-xl9ed1gi3g You are confusing me with the owner of this channel, i'm someone else. Yes i know the sony 5900 from sight, i have seen pictures of it some time ago on the internet but not in real. I tought from that partial picture of that radio in your profile that that is maybe a sony from the 70s but wasnt sure which model. i like classic radios and own a few old hamradios, for i example icom ic765, the icom ic781, ic775, ic751a.... Do you know the icom ic765 ? The ic765 is one of my all time favorite radios.

[@ve6wo]

Excellent video!

[@user-em7lp1sb4k]

I have the NCC-1 and never thought about having multiple sense antenna locations to switch between I may try this.

[@EUC_Senior]

You have just sparked me to build a better mousetrap!

[@ronjones4069]

I just got a kit and thanks for the advice.

[@kishor_VU2MZT]

VERY NICE EXAPLANATION , GREAT BRO 73

[@thomastammaro693]

Very good video. Informative, and "punch in the face" honest! I just subscribed👊

[@zach0gr]

Interesting and nearly typical ideas I also used. The. 1025 before

[@rafkend1422]

You are a life saver sir! Watching your video made me understand how to adjust the controls for what purpose. I bought a Chinese version of the noise canceler [yes, I know does not sound smart-just apprehensive about spending another $250 before knowing what to anticipate] and hooked it up. Besides it having poor quality control, it still worked and I have it buddied to my good old TS-180S. The Chinese model does not have an adjusting knob for TX-RX delay and I was wondering how you properly adjust that feature on the 1026, or what to look out for before sending 100 watts down the throat of the receiving end and char the device. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73...KJ7YSW

[@TrystansWorkbench]

The Chinese canceller has back-to-back diodes which will limit RF to the unit during the delay in the TX-RX, as do most of these QRM Eliminators.

[@nicktsakonas]

Great video Steve! You stirred up the need to retry it - I am in the 'disappointed' group and gave up years ago. I bought a WIMO QRM eliminator years ago, also with disappointing results, despite the many success videos. Apparently I was doing something wrong. WIMO's manual suggests a procedure to convince yourself that it works: connect 2 short wires on the MAIN and AUX ports, and put your antenna analyzer close by. You should be able to null out the signal completely - which makes absolute sense - but it did not! It is so easy to give up after that! If you have no idea where the offending noise comes from, is the placement of the noise antenna critical? especially in relation (physical/electrical distance) to the main antenna? 73, Nick

[@ve6wz]

Nick...I have never tried the WIMO box so I cant comment specific to that unit. However, the 2 wires in the box and using the analyzer as a source will indeed work, but the gain and phase adjustment will be **very** sharp and will change quickly if you move the location of the analyser....even slightly. Often cancelling any noise involves careful "back-and-forth" adjustment of the gain and phase until the perfect null is achieved. ALSO, when using the MFJ unit, be aware that a full 180 deg phase rotation is not always possible, and sometimes it is necessary to activate the 180 deg phase shift button labeled "Normal" "INVERT". A full 360 deg rotation is possible, but sometimes you need to activate that Normal-invert button to get the exact 180 deg. shift. Perhaps a similar switch is found on the WIMO box? Physical distance between main and noise antennas is less important than locating the noise antenna proximal to the noise source. Your "Main" antenna is selected based on the best DX reception, and the noise antenna is selected and located based on getting the "offending noise" signal as strong a possible. Perhaps walk around with a portable radio and try and find out where your specific noise is loudest??

[@nicktsakonas]

@@ve6wz Thanks for the reply Steve! I will have to dig up the unit and try again. I do not recall any switch (and googling it indeed does not show any phase reversal switch) so I hope that its design is adequate for the job (maybe I have to find its schematic and compare to other boxes).Another try will not hurt!At least, your success is encouraging to me, mybe I can make it work! 73!

[@tahoma6889]

Power lines can be handled by contacting the provider and reminding them they are not licensed broadcasters and request they address it. If they fail to within a couple of weeks, contact again and remind them the FCC will fine them if it is not corrected. If after a month, call Laura Smith and let her know you need some help with it. PSU and TV's are the biggest sources of in home noise. An old Transistor AM Radio is your friend in locating the foes.

[@Nobody-ld7mk]

Now all we need is a is a "BUFFER CIRCUIT" for tapping into the phase control box for use with a two channel oscilloscope. Wouldn't that be nice... any ideas ?? Connect the dots gain and phase tuning.

[@sniperchaz111]

brilliant video unfortunatly i live in centre of town with buildings all around i purchased a qrm eliminator but it has the ptt socket on the back i followed instructions to a t connected the ptt but two things happened one it only acted as an rf gain on main antenna i could not increase or decrease any rf of aux antenna even though i have identicle noise on it 2nd when connected to ptt on my icom 9100 it totaly reduced power output to main antenna and o cannot find any work around also the phase wouldnt do anything at all even going direct without using ptt on bypass the phase did nothing and i could only get the main antenna to do one thing act like rf gain i checked the insides and all connections where fine its driving me nutts iv watched countless vids using the ptt all theirs seem to work im assuming mine just happens to be a duff one any suggestions of a decent qrm eliminatotor that maybe doesnt have to use a ptt switch inline sincerley chaz 2E0EMN

[@CanadianPrairiesShortwave]

Great video. My neighbour plasma noise is killing the fun of listening. I’ll try one of these.

[@nathanpetrovski7525]

Did you end up trying one? I'm having major interference issues because of my neighbour's solar inverter.

[@CanadianPrairiesShortwave]

yes I did and I strongly recommend it. noise will be almost gone

[@nathanpetrovski7525]

@@CanadianPrairiesShortwave Where did you put your noise antenna?

[@John-gx4ze]

Steve that stealth noise antenna is Awesome work! What was your technique for burying the coax without the neighbors freaking out, night time? Also, was the hi-z input accomplished with a transformer or did you use a preamp with dc fed through the coax? 73!

[@ve6wz]

Yes, I used a small power HI-Z amp powered with 12v on the feed line. Probably a small transformer would have worked as well since the noise was very strong behind his house. I recall installing that coax during a weekday while most neighbours were at work....If anyone walked by, I just looked like I was working on the fence :-)

[@franciscojavierguerreroper3782]

Hi Steve ! Two questions , the signal reception ... lets say an S7 noise in the main antenna must be ? same in the auxiliar antenna ? cause if you have a beam like main antenna at top of the tower and a dipole auxiliar antenna ... its not easy both w an S7 noise reception...if is very close the null noise will work...in my case , i have powerline tower few km from my property ... my main antenna is 6 el monoband for 10m at 95 feet top of my tower and the noise auxiliar antenna is just under 10 feet is 5 el monobander for 10m and not much cancell noise , when move main antenna diferent direction gets better but still is an S3 noise residual , i play w PHASE and AUX antenna noise , to reduce the maximum , i dont touch the MAIN antenna gain to make quiter the noise ... cause the signals reports is below 1 or 2 S units... Its a way w an aux antenna to get better or less S units noise ? will work CNN 2 better ? in long distance noise ? i have got the QRM eliminator .

[@larryoob8754]

I have tried the Timewave anc-4 and find it a good attenuator ..... enough said....

[@DK5ONV]

DX-Engineering ROCKS . . . 👍👍👍

[@markgriffin2285]

Is there any way that one can use there transmit antenna as the noise antenna also? Perhaps a stupid question, but I thought I would ask anyway. Mark KB3Z

[@paulplack490]

Mark, in a word, no. If the same antenna is split and fed to both inputs, the box will null the desired signal exactly as much as the noise signal. But an aux antenna can be very cheap & simple, as Steve showed. His noise antenna is effective because the level of the noise signal is probably much higher than his main antenna, while the desired signal is likely much higher on the main than on the little wire by the fence.

[@RU2AIM]

*_I see the -30dB knob on the NCC-1 whereas I believe the MFJ is rated for up to -60dB cancellation. What was your experience between the two of them in terms of which attained the highest level of cancellation?_*

[@ve6wz]

I think there is a miss understanding here about the attenuation knobs on the DX eng. box. They have nothing to do with the amount of cancellation in dB. Those controls are just used to balance the signal level between the two antenna ports as explained in the video. The DX eng box uses attenuation to lower one antenna to balance with the other, the MFJ uses a pre-amp. The end result is the same. The depth of the null, or cancellation is similar with both boxes when adjusted correctly.

[@RU2AIM]

@@ve6wz Well the question is, ''Will the NCC-2 null as much as the -60dB the MFJ is touted to?'' I did interpret that knob incorrectly, it's actually a maximum possible gain or up to -30dB down, so what I wonder is how much gain does it's preamp have in 0dB ATT in comparison to the 1026 when set at maximum..?

[@RU2AIM]

@@ve6wz By the way, unless you're referring to an unmarried woman (Miss Understanding) it would be one word with only one 's' before 'understanding' - *_misunderstanding,_* but - you know that 😉

[@claycook2230]

Has anyone ever used two phasing units in series one for QRN and one for QRM?

[@de_w8tam]

I use the VK5TM board. Works great! 73 de w8tam

[@JohnGreen-SWL]

Also built a VK5TM noise canceller which does a good job. Great tips Steve and very clear presentation thanks

[@stevenplatt1411]

What you failed to mention is the desired radio signal is also picked up by the auxiliary or noise antenna. It is not obvious to me why the desired radio signal is not also nulled out by the phase shift/combiner. If the "Buz-Buz" noise can be nulled out with the phase shift then combiner so should the desired signal.??

[@ve6wz]

Hi Steven, The desired (wanted) radio signal will be a completely different phase than the noise, not to mention different amplitude. The phase of the noise is specific to the source and distance to the source of said noise. (As well as feed line phase delay). Steve

[@markgriffin2285]

Good Morning, I don't have a noise antenna. Unless you would either call my Beverage and or HY Z 3 vertical receive system. It would be impossible to put up a similar antenna to pick up the noise. Mark KB3Z

[@ON8EI]

No MFJ in my shack. :-)

[@smartazz61]

Have you looked at the price for the NCC2? $949.00. WITHOUT any potentially necessary plug in modules.