How to use a STEREO WIDENER plugin on metal guitars - tutorial

Learn how to create wider guitars in a metal mix in this tutorial.
Joel shows a few different wants to create wider guitars: using a widener plugin such as Waves S1 Stereo Imager or JST Sidewinder and doing it manually by duplicating and shifting the phase. And a little bonus EQ trick :)
This tutorial uses Cubase, but the same method will work in any DAW - just look up how to time shift your tracks as Joel does with slip editing.
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[@fahadhc]

Here's a tip guys: Automate the stereo width plugin in large sections of the song such as choruses, bridges or whatever. basically you'll get a wider and bigger effect in the chorus.. where as your verse (or other parts) will sound normal in comparison.. Learnt this from Graham from the recording revolution.

[@Yanthungbemo]

Graham is a cool guy

[@5adb0i]

Andy Wallace (Linkin Park, among others) does something similar. On verses instead of full panning the guitars, you half pan them and then on the hooks, you fully pan them with automation. Simple and effective way to create width in your mix, before reaching for stereo wideners and haas effect, etc.

[@benjaminmagambo3849]

The manual trick is more accurate and produces a better result ! I love it ! Thank you for sharing Joel !

[@1527nick]

The manual technique shown in this was massively useful to me, sounds great.

[@goatsurgeon]

YES OH YES OH THANK YOU YES EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED I don’t have enough atmosphere from my guitars and I don’t want to quad track! For punch, yeah, but not to fill the mix! It's better to have a widening effect than to have 4, 6, or 8 tracks with all the frequencies stacking like nuts. If you have a left and a right, and they feel far off, this is the trick you need, I think.

[@BoyOfLol]

I learned something today! It's getting harder for me to find something new to learn but you guys keep doing it. Thanks!

[@URMAcademy]

Appreciate the support!

[@infernalstygian6336]

i use 2 extra channels for guitars using widening; one with a delay on, set to monitor the original guitar group or bus with it set to 2.54ms, feedback 60, 35 wet, and filtered to around 1k and then compress this and put this at about 1.25 widened, then make a 100% wet reverb return channel compressed and widened to 1.3 and then add in sends from the original left and right double tracked guitars and the monitored delay channel to taste.

[@DacianGradaMusic]

used a plugin like that on a few stereo sources (ie: a stereo guitar lead or something) for that extra wideness, but this "manual" mode seems to work really well on double tracked guitars, thanks a lot for this! :)

[@Melvin7727]

Absolutely the best video I've seen on widening. Great advice, practical, thorough, and good perspective

[@CantKillACowboyTX]

Thanks a ton for the manual description and demo of this technique! Nice to get an in-depth look at not only how to use these methods effectively, but how the typical stereo-widening plug-ins work and the differences between manual and plug-in methods. Keep up the vids, guys!

[@Tragikofficial]

Good video! I learned something new today. I'm gunna try the manual trick later today.

[@AJDOLDCHANNELARCHIVE]

The manual technique sounds great! Thanks for the tip.

[@ddsrecording]

Don't forget about bx_shredspread for width on guitars (and smoothing out those super distorted guitars which can get a little britte in the top end)

[@ShinigamYpn]

How about quad tracking, having 2 panned hard, other 2 panned 95%, then you move those two guitars "behind" (by 15-30ms) as shown in manual trick (but only if tight performance), and then EQ those two guitars differently. Boost high end on left guitar, boost Mids on right guitar, balance the gain stage. I believe it would achieve an even wider image, due to differences in EQ and how our ear perceive sounds (each ear perceive different frequencies). Plus you won't get phasing issues. So in the end, it confuses the brain into thinking it's wider. Disclaimer, I'm not an audio eng, but I'm interested in what results would this technique achieve.

[@gibsoadstudios648]

Petar Milutinovic hmmmm that’s actually a cool idea. I might have to try that

[@JordanKarg]

This guy knows what he’s doing.

[@xathomir]

A plugin called MSpectralPan does a similar thing by eqing each side differently! Very underused plugin

[@dougleydorite]

@@xathomir Nobody has time for QUAD in 2021. I will try this MSpectralPan with Joels manual trick

[@georgepelekoudis]

Nice! Thanks! I've got Dr. MS, but will try the manual method. It looks like there's better control, and less artifacts.

[@8rk]

Damn I feel like this was the missing key to getting a more polished guitar sound on my recordings! Thank you!

[@roxnroll8050]

Awesome video! Question: I got confused, and would love to know how they relate: 1:26 - "Put out of phase material in the opposite speaker " 11:19 - "Some tradeoffs... More "Phasey" Which one is correct, and if they're both correct, how do they relate?

[@icaanul]

"out of phase to one side" just means a timing difference which adds perceived width. You achieve this when you double track your guitars. It's the natural way to widen it but he is doing it from one. "some tradeoffs... more phasey" is referring to when you widen it with the plugin, the overall sound will start to sound out of phase which is how the widening happens to begin with. So you do it moderately or else it funks up the image of the mix. When you double track your rhythms, playing the same riff twice panned left and right, the slight difference in timing will add that "chorus" effect due to very slight phasing issue(this again is what the first point is referring to). It's why when you check it in mono, the volume will decrease. They "fight" each other and start to cancel. And if it is incredibly out of time, it's just a pure mess and the guitar will disappear due to the issue. So when you double track, try to be as accurate as possible. These days people ignore mono because most everyone is listening in stereo but it's best to always be mindful of mono and double check. Checking in mono can narrow down mix issues easier than going track by track.

[@djentlover]

Is this your mix? Sounds incredible

[@joelwanasek3656]

Yes thanks, the artist is named Versus Me.

[@AgorizTribe]

Can you use CENTER from waves to achive the same effect?

[@motorcyclepassion4053]

Thanks

[@tttrrriiipppyyy]

THANK YOU xxx

[@ICKY427]

is there a better way to make a single mono guitar track sound stereo and full and wide? i ask because i do a lot of just recording random quick sketches where ill come up with something on the spot and record it. so it can be challenging to remember what i just played in order to record it twice. id love a way to make rhythm guitar sound good without having to record it twice. ive played around with fl studios "stereo enhancer" that delays one channel a few milliseconds, but it never sounds as good as two tracks.

[@Jaepo33]

Wow thanks so much for sharing! Definitely got my mix sounding a lot better!

[@richardtoth7240]

Now I got a head-acke. Thx!

[@phantasma669]

Very good tips man thank you

[@Tinderbiddles]

How about mid/side eq to add width?

[@MrJonchilders]

I love this. I never could get the hang of proper widening when I used to mix. I wish I had been taught this technique!! By the way, what's the song? I'm digging it big.

[@MisterTrayser]

I have a question. There is a very good trick to make a guitar stereo by recording the same riff two times and panning the two tracks to left and right. But whats a good practice to archive the same result with vst sample libraries? For example, Strummed Acoustic library for Kontakt. If you make two independent channels of same vst and play same notes on them, they will sound exactly the same as there won't be natural randomness.

[@Ts1rke]

In Strummed Acoustic there is a "doubling" option which gives you exactly this stereo feeling, and probably most of the other VST sample libraries have this option as well.

[@MisterTrayser]

@@Ts1rke but this doubling option doubles the sound same on every note. But I wish there would be randomness in different signals

[@Cole-ek7fh]

i used to mess with wideners but i just quad track sent to two seperate buses and pan those. still use wideners on strings and synths as well as the lead guitar reverb bus.

[@3101max]

same. sounds so much clearer imo

[@gutekzpoligonu]

Randy Staub is doin' similar thing with this SRS labs wow thing effect.

[@whome806]

I have a question! If I track a rock song should I record the lead twice aswell if they are doing octaves and not a solo

[@joaquinmateos4292]

Sounds Killer! wich song is that??? is there a chance to hear the final mix and the whole song?

[@Yanthungbemo]

Any tips on how to tackle the problem of losing double tracked rhythm guitars (panned 100% left and right) in mono?

[@joeyvaughan5157]

Quad track, pan 100 and 90 percent, cut 250k by around 3db and you should be in the ballpark

[@Yanthungbemo]

@@joeyvaughan5157 thanks!

[@trentkraemer7109]

@@joeyvaughan5157 250k? 2.5k?

[@joeyvaughan5157]

@@trentkraemer7109 Two year old typo coming back to hurt me. 250hz

[@gunnarmagnus]

So wait sorry if I sound slow but is that just one made guitar track copied and with one panned to the right and one panned to the left? The reason I ask is it sounds too clean for it to be two guitars. I don’t know why it’s so difficult for me to understand this but I really REALLY want to.

[@imcalledjared]

Dude what drums are these? Are they live or samples?? They're sounding amazing 😍

[@t74devkw]

Sounds like SSD

[@joelwanasek3656]

Programmed. It is kickforge, drumforge on everything else. There is a SSD room sample on the snare.

[@imcalledjared]

Awesome thank you! Sounding awesome! Gonna have to give the drumforge stuff a tryout then 🤘

[@Alvolta25]

I'm not getting something... why first the two tracks you are using have different waves? Is it it two different playing? What is it?

[@nickcrane8329]

Yes you dual track your guitars by taking 2 different recordings of the same section left and right for stereo width

[@markguadez]

very informative video,,,,thankss mate...

[@Davizola91]

I love this Channel 💖🎶

[@mo2nz97]

helpful thanks

[@mikedixon8830]

GOLD

[@mvyper]

It feels like if you go very wide they just start coming back to the center..

[@felixdorn21]

"if you go crazy, it gets really wierd and phasy" :D

[@lizziedanger4271]

Stereo imaging is a dangerous game amateurs and beginners alike tend to want to mess with. everyone wants to "widen" their sound and they think its an "end all" deal with their music when in reality they're missing key aspects to their sound and acoustics. stereo imaging is a fraction of the puzzle piece of a complete mix. I tend to stay away from showing people how to widen their sound because they feel like once they achieve a wide sound, they're done. Once listened by a professional (or themselves) on a different playback device, it sounds like shit. Stereo widening should be left to professionals and actual engineers that have dedicated their time to accomplish their title as an engineer. The tips given here are great, but don't think it's "all I need to complete my mix." If you're a starting musician, an amateur engineer, or just an independent person wanting to mix and master your music, take it to a professional that has an audio certification for the sake of your own dignity and music quality. Everyone thinks stereo widening is "the secret formula" and it isn't. I had someone sit in with me while I was mixing a song for a band and they asked how I got such a good stereo field with the girls' vocals and wanted to know what I did. I just told them "experience" and then I showed them joey sturgis's "sidewidener". Problem is, if they try to go and download that plugin and replicate what I did, they'll never achieve a perfect stereo field like I did. Why? because I know how to manipulate my plugins, I have experience with staging and acoustics, I've went to college for audio technology and engineering. People that take tidbits of information pulled off the web and try to hack together a mix will get them no further than confused, frustrated, stuck in a rut and negative ratings. Please. Take your music to someone that has credibility and experience. You'll save time and make your music sound great.

[@pauloing1pauloing167]

02:20 click here to save your short lifetime on Earth

[@Swanlord05]

U snowflake that wide stuff sounded good

[@user-2Hteyasizyc]

Cheap ass amp sim sound, sounds horrid hollow and plastic - but obviously it fits the generic chug plastic ass genre associated with it. Nevermind.

[@nickcrane8329]

Ah pod farm, that explains the terrible guitar tone

[@pauloing1pauloing167]

With such aweful riff, no wonder why it sounds bad with Extereo Expander. The problem is not the plugin, it's the song. Thumbs up if you agree.

[@dougleydorite]

No thumbs up 10 months later. Maybe it's your taste that is the problem?