HOW TO WIN ARKHAM HORROR: THE CARD GAME | Understanding Tempo

[@rafalas01]

I'll repeat again and again, this channel is a GIFT to all AH LCG fans. I've never seen in any other game boardgame, a dedicated channel that shows so much love and passion for it. Thank you so much for such great content, making us fans learn better and have a deeper understanding on all of its intricacies, specially for beginner players. FFG should put you on a pedestal.

[@joshuacamper1831]

I found out in my last true solo game with Joe Diamond that drawing the stupid auto fail token four times in a row slows you down considerable. Makes you mad too when you have a 1 in 16 chance of drawing that token.

[@81hewp]

Beat that tempo Gainging style. Thank you for the breakdown and tips.

[@philr7177]

I am brand new to Arkham and have been struggling a bit enjoying the game. I have to say that finding your videos has helped me change that. Understanding the rules and mechanics of the game has helped me grow to absolutely love this game. Thank you very much.

[@blinxy511]

Glad to hear you're enjoying the game, and the videos!

[@bilanggoboy]

I FINALLY beat the Devourer Below just now, thanks to the lessons I learned in this video! Thank you so much guys!

[@PlayingBoardGames]

That's awesome! Take that, Umôrdhoth.

[@VarianzaExtrema]

This content is pure gold. I come from the MTG world, having just started with AH LCG a few weeks ago. Despite the games being so different, the concept of tempo is quite similar: it's achieving the most while spending the least, and this includes actions, resources and cards -time is a KEY resource in this game-. That was a great breakdown of the concept, and I loved the fact that you used many core set cards so new players can quickly identify the concepts that you are explaining. Really helpful for beginners. This game is tough as a rock, but really rewards you from understanding it. The first time I played the midnight masks, I only got 1 cultist. But once you really go deep into the game, you start making much better strategic decisions. The last time I played the masks actually managed to get all 6 cultists, using only one core set (Agnes and Roland, and in a total gamble move with my very last action before midnight). The game shines when it's well played, and this kind of videos help to have a better understanding of it. Greetings from Spain!

[@L0grak]

This is great! Another way to help with Tempo is to look for ways to invest in future tempo if you have nothing to do to directly progress the game right now. For example, maybe you're playing a Fighter and there are no monsters to fight right now. Rather than trying a bunch of investigates just hoping to draw a +1 or Elder Sign, you're probably better off playing new assets, drawing cards or gaining resources to help setup for the next thing the game tries to throw at you.

[@markusschmidt9260]

Agreed, it's better than wasting actions on hoping for a +1 or Elder Sign, but drawing cards and gaining resources are not what I would call tempo play on it's own. As a specialised guardian in 2 player games, I would consider Flashlight in the deck, to suck up some clues from 1 or 2 shroud location, when there is no monster around. With more players, there are more draws from the encounter deck and it gets less likely, that you get dead calm rounds.

[@PlayingBoardGames]

This is a great point that I wish we covered in the video. I'll touch on this in a future episode in this series, because what you're saying is very important to ensure you come out victorious.

[@Semicolon42]

Thanks for making this video! Arkham Horror LCG's tempo can be hard to find or.understand. Especially when playing blind because you don't know what your next new challenge will be. But it is there! (Number of clues needed on the current Act vs the number of Acts left vs number of Agendas left in the deck) So thanks for making this video to help people understand the tempo of the game better.

[@MartinBraonain]

The most helpful video I have watched on how to compete when playing. Thanks

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

I've watched enough of your videos now to subscribe, good content, keep it coming.

[@PlayingBoardGames]

Thanks for your comment. :)

[@davidja1336]

Good introduction and interesting video. There are two related concepts that I think are interesting with respect to tempo - the offensive/defensive mix of your team, and the speed of your investigators to work well. For offense/defense, I tend to distinguish the stats as book/fist for offense and brain/feet for defense, though obviously some classes substitute. But this means someone like Akachi is very strong defensively, can almost expect to ignore non-enemy mythos cards each round, but isn't as able to directly advance things, while Mark is very strong offensively (not on clues without Sophie, but still in his primary role) and still moderate defensively. When I think about a 3-4 player team, I want to make sure we are balanced in total - that if we have Finn and Preston, we have Minh and Diana to balance them. The second, and perhaps more interesting for newer players, is set-up. Mystics take a while to get set up but then can really roll downhill if they aren't too far behind - so tempo with them is often less of a concern early, but then you need to succeed repeatedly. Conversely, someone like Silas or Patrice may play 1-2 assets after their mulligan, and then just go start doing things. However, often the ones that are faster tend to cap out at lower overall power, and so will lose tempo later. I think this is a big challenge with newer players as they step up difficulty by getting into further scenarios or larger groups. People who usually play 1-2 players often see Ursula as the best investigator, e.g., because she's really fast. But with a 4-player team, with only 4 book and a weaker special ability than Minh/Daisy/Mandy, she often isn't able to build up strong enough to maintain tempo. Similarly, the first time a new player tries Duke, he seems amazing - do everything at 4 with no set-up! However, as they get to scenario 5/6, being able to Duke into a location at book 4 becomes much less valuable, and it's hard to figure out how to set him up to do better. So I think balancing speed - having someone who can be helpful quickly, someone who can flex between speeds, and someone who will become really powerful after some setting up - is a fun and interesting challenge for 3-4 player teams. Curious how you all have considered that as you plan your plays - it's something I remember from the Gift Exchange run, where Sefina was very slow and always hunting for double double, while Duke could get going quite quickly. Anyway, thanks for a cool new series, really enjoying it!

[@blinxy511]

That's a very good second point, and something that will probably come up when we talk about action efficiency, as it's kind of tied to both. You'll notice for us that our preferences with that vary from person to person, Bryn typically prefers the big set ups, Justin likes low to the ground efficient rigs and I'm kind of in between, so they can definitely all work.

[@sultanbadawia2177]

Great video!!! I am new to arkham and this was eye opening to the game's mechanics

[@pincao]

Great insights as always.

[@camipco]

I would define tempo as progress towards winning per action. The investigators have 3 tools - resources, cards and actions. Actions are the most valuable of these for four reasons. 1) Using them moves the game clock towards defeat 2) On the free first round for set up (because no mythos) you get 6 resources, 6 cards and 3 actions. 3) You can by default trade 1 actions for 1 card or 1 resource but you cannot trade in the other direction 4) Cards that provide additional actions are rare. So, in general, using an action to get a card or resource is a bad deal (of course there are situations when this is the correct play). Conversely, using a card to gain an action (or avoid spending an action) is normally a great deal. Just as an example, Emergency Cache costs 1 action and 1 card, and gains you 3 resources. Since the base cost of a card or a resource is an action each, a simplistic analysis of Emergency Cache is that you spend 2 actions to gain 3 actions - thereby gaining tempo.

[@ETiDeQuenVesSendo]

This video is gold.

[@EdHastingsKillerShrike]

Great video guys, one of your best yet.

[@DrDifra]

first example when you explane tempo, should have said that with the weapon you spend 4 actions to kill the enemy (one to play the weapon 3 to kill), so you invest 1 card and 1 action, to gain basically 5 actions. straight up tempo

[@Cuherdir]

Nice video so far, really helpful if you don't understand where the problems you experience in the game stem from! (will watch the rest later)

[@francoisgermain3991]

When are you guys not awesome? NEVER!!! Thanks for those mega tips!!!!

[@PlayingBoardGames]

Thank you for your comment. :)

[@muskyoxes]

A belated comment about how dying isn't that scary, i'm amazed that this game functions with healing being such a small part of it. In a standard RPG (I'm thinking final fantasy) you heal for like 100x your health over the course of the game. Here it barely exists and it works. It makes the game that much more real and avoids the absurdity of enemies needing to be instakill strong lest they play like wimps.

[@tcr7]

"Playing to win vs playing to not lose". I so relate to this. I use that exact argument in Pandemic as to why the Medic is bad. The Medic doesn't actually help you win; he runs around and just helps you to not lose. I've only played AHLCG once so far (literally yesterday), but even with that very limited experience, I can tell that everything you've said is true. I'll definitely be implementing these ideas into my deck next week. Thanks!

[@CK-xh7gn]

Thanks for this!

[@deanthomas2561]

Thanks for that one, gents. Love to see your theory of winning. I will say that I've often invested in future tempo with Disc and failed to find a monster for the rest of the game which feels like a waste though I suppose the safety blanket of knowing that I can deal with a bad guy allows me to range a couple of steps further from the goon and thus be more self reliant.

[@Seranggas]

5 time in a row ,second campaign always died! rest for a while. 😭 why so haaard!! hope this tempo can beat the cultist.

[@raffymoonzombie]

love this! thank you. :D

[@legrac-m3k]

Delusory Evils can be deceptive. With my clue getter I'm all about drawing the card. If I'm the fighter...I'm usually more about the doom. When you need to play vicious blow to kill that big enemy or die, and you're going to fail a hit if you're up too much... I've seen that go poorly more than once. It also doesn't hurt that the scenarios I think of this happening in the most--doom is not really the concern it normally is--Return to The Lost King and Return to BSR.

[@charlesvalentine9638]

I think I have the opposite problems. I am ahead of the doom tracker but I rush to bring down the barrier when I am half filled with damage or horror and one or two hits will defeat me, or I don't have a weapon in play that will give me a chance. Then I die of opportunity attacks or retaliation. Why do I rush when there is still 2 or 3 doom before the agenda flips?!!!

[@Zybran93]

Hey, Ive got a more general question that came up while playing edge of the world...In a lot of scenarios you got alot of victory 0 cards and at the end of the game it tells you to count the x values from victory cards, do you only count the numbers, so around 2 or 3 exp per scenario or count the cards with victory on it, which would be around 6-8exp mostly. It always confuses me, because why put the cards in victory pile, when they dont count...could anybody clear this up for me?

[@PlayingBoardGames]

Most commonly they put level 0 victory on a card to remove it from the game after it is defeated without needing to put all that text on the card. It doesn't count for any victory points, but it is in the victory display.

[@julianbailey2749]

I am confused by the example of using winging it and Duke. You cannot use winging it with duke on the same action, either you are investigating with Winging It or you are investigating with Duke, not both in the same action. This means that when you are investigating with Winging It then you are using Pete's search ability which is not a good plan unless you have given him some useful clue finding assets (which also can't be used with Duke).

[@youperguy]

Great video!

[@EricWoning]

This is going to be my third and last attempt at AH LCG - have gotten half of Dulwich.... this however does make me see the game in a new light. Really hope that it finally clicks.

[@PlayingBoardGames]

I hope it clicks for you too! Do you play solo, two handed, or multiplayer?

[@EricWoning]

@@PlayingBoardGames - two handed..... have been thinking that maybe I should shift to solo. I watched your which 2 investigators vid yesterday... alas I don't own at least half of the investigators - did really like the 'backstory' you gave. I should also work on that. So far I also think I've been so focussed on the mechanical part that I've not been able to enjoy the story part. Marvel Champions is so much easier rules-wise that I've been enjoying that. But I desperately want to enjoy AH LCG as I know it's the better game.

[@SadKamala]

How are you supposed to put a card like delusory evils in your hand without anyone noticing? Even if it was sleeved the same as your deck for some reason the other players are gonna be like "what happened to your encounter card?". Is the idea just that there are a lot of these cards with the hidden mechanic used in a scenario so you don't know which one it is?

[@MarceloKuchiki]

yes, that's the idea

[@ES-yc1tp]

Hey guys, how do you take EXP into account? I always compare 1 resources= 1 actions= 1 card but i've never compared exp to anything. Is 1 EXP = 1 action as well in terms of action economy?

[@blinxy511]

We are planning on doing an action economy video soonish, and we'll try to cover it there, but XP kinda doesn't equate to actions, as it doesn't actually effect the scenario you're playing. In a campaign it can be seen as investment into future action economy, as you're trading actions in this scenario for actions in future scenarios though.

[@EdHastingsKillerShrike]

Generally, it's more like { 1 action > 1 card > 1 resources } And as blinxy511 says, XP doesn't have anything to do with actions per se. However, if you mean how much effort should you invest to get 1 XP...for instance if you need to move two locations and take two attacks to kill a monster worth 1 XP is it worth it...I think the answer is it depends on the game state...particularly where you're at relative to the Act and Agenda advancing. It's a classic risk vs reward judgement call that you'll get better at making the more you've played the game.

[@nicmichaud7868]

actions are not equal to drawing cards or gaining resources! In fact using your actions to do si is the least efficient way to use them! Sometimes you have nothing better to do but you should avoid it as much as possible!

[@Mattastrophic]

I'm still pretty confused about something... you guys have a lot of examples of gaining and losing tempo... but what *is* tempo in the context of Arkham Horror? Is it just actions? Action efficiency? Is it healing? Is it damage?

[@booner8856]

To me, tempo is progressing the Act deck faster than the Agenda deck. So that could mean being able to take more actions in order to progress the Act deck. Those actions could be investigating, or dealing damage so you can move to the next location, or just trying to find the right location. The game varies with what is important depending on the scenario but for the most part you want to be working towards that Act deck. I'm still new to the game so YMMV.

[@blinxy511]

Tempo isn't tangible, it is basically how close you are to winning but only in comparison to how close the game is to winning. The actual metrics aren't important.

[@Negowa2]

Can we see the other talkers please? At least at the start of the video

[@PlayingBoardGames]

I do not believe they have access to webcams. Normally we record in person, we're just distance recording during COVID.

[@marduk3604]

I think of tempo as action economy or action compression... is that a valid description of tempo?

[@PlayingBoardGames]

I personally believe it is.

[@InfernoJo]

Great discussion guys! It reminds me of the panel at Farkham Con: Tempo vs. Momentum. If you want to indulge in another hour of Arkham discussion, it's Mythos Busters power gamer Scott, Mattastrophic, and 2 Great Old Ones Gaming. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpitpWVnpLaXbbc

[@TheCrimsonscorpio]

The best way to explain tempo (or action economy) is to explain why William Yorick is better than Tommy Muldoon. Just looking at everything but their reaction ability, Tommy is uniformly the superior character: stronger stat line, and more notably an infinitely better card pool (and I love red cards). But the sheer amount of action compression (combined with control) Yorick provides elevates him into one of the best investigators in the game just by saving actions to replay his cheap soaks, let alone resurrecting powerful weapon and utility assets. Contrast that with Tommy having to expend actions to replay his cards. It doesn't seem like much, but it's everything. Think about it, if you just flipped their character abilities, Tommy would probably be hands down the best Guardian in the game.

[@Kindlesmith70]

From the first and second set, the game doesn't allow for a lot of options. If a game can't be won consistently, and still provide a challenge, it's not designed well. If one strategy/card/mechanic is superior to another, and the game is supposed to offer a multitude of options equally, it is not well designed. Luck should never be THE determining factor of success, nor failure. You mention few things, and all of those with examples you've used specific colors. You do not provide any insight to every color.

[@charlesvalentine9638]

This is a horror game. The game rewards you for bringing in a cannon fodder ally instead of healing. Sorry buddy, I don't have time for first aid, so I am gonna have to throw you at the monster! There should be an ally that gives you a experience point if they survive the scenario.

[@chriswarburtonbrown1566]

Some great advice here but OMG are you hard to listen to! I suggest: 1. Get decent microphones, specially for Travis 2. Ban use of the word 'like' especially from Travis. 3. Stop mumbling, Travis.

[@Kindlesmith70]

tempo = pacing. How hard is that to understand? Rather than speak of tempo, you could have just said, players need to learn to how do the things they need to do to beat the game with the fewest costs. Min/max. Minimum effort, for maximum results.

[@Chiungalla79]

The Relentless Dark Young is a very good example for a good use of the 5 XP Monster Slayer card you guys don`t like. ;-)

[@TheMarsKce]

In my opinion Ancient Evils is just a terribly bad card design and nothing else. Imagine a situation: We play expert mode, count every our action to achieve peak performence, and then comes the last agenda of the scenario. We did our best to win this and there We are on the very end, sure of winning. Then comes the last methos phase. Whe have 2 rounds to lose, and We know We're ending this on our next turn. Plus, We have a Ward of Protextion. There's 3 of us and... WE ALL DRAW THIS FU**NG CARD! Yes! That did happen! I know it's very uncommon but possible. That makes this card in my opinion just a bad design. The fact it says this card can advance agenda makes it even worse design. There was nothing We could do. One of us had Ward of Protection ready, for this very card! But what good does it do when such nightmare acures?! Hate this card. For many many reasons.

[@nicmichaud7868]

Ancient evil is perfect! Each scenario with it often have higher doom threshold and the reason for is existence is so you can't predict how much time you have left! Is it a crippling card? hell yes! one of the worst! But it's a good card because it adds tension to your games! you have to go fast because you don't know when the agenda will advance!

[@TheMarsKce]

@@nicmichaud7868 I would 100% agree if there was 1 in the deck. Or it wouldnt progress the agenda. But there's 3 and it does. So You won't convince me

[@julianbailey2749]

Ancient Evils is there to balance the game for different investigator numbers. 4 investigators are by nature much more efficient than one and will usually complete a scenario in fewer turns. This is doubly true of any scenario in which the party splits to find an unknown location or item. Ancient Evils speeds up the timer on those high investigator numbers and so rebalances the game. If you're playing in Expert mode then you will be managing Ancient Evils via mitigation cards and also will have calculated how many copies of it you expect to see in the scenario, so you now how far ahead of the game curve that you need to be.

[@TheMarsKce]

There is nothing balanced in drawing two or three in a row no matter how many investigators are there. And no one will convince me otherwise.

[@Chiungalla79]

You guys have a LOT of overseights in your arguments. Seriously. Step up your game! To shoot three times with a weapon and not include the action to play the weapon in the first place or restock the ammo into that calculation.