How to worldbuild: Trade and economics

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[@gaslone79]

just because you can fly doesn't mean roads are useless. Think of our world.

[@hunterkoons2008]

Exactly. Just because it's possible doesn't make it convenient.

[@damian2924]

He was specifically talking about flying with magic, not aircraft.

[@ethankennan212]

My aliens can fly naturally. They often like to research air currents to deliver messages quicker(at least in the earlier ages). I suppose they could relay goods through them, though they may have to get teams and/or (flying?) beasts of burden together for the heavier stuff.

[@arjunsatheesh7609]

If there were cheap hovercars in our world, roads would be a complete waste of valuable real estate especially within big cities. Flying today is fairly expensive even after accounting for budget airlines and inner city transport of cargo is still better done by roads. If technology advanced far enough we wouldn't need roads.

[@zakosist]

@@arjunsatheesh7609 But what about traffic rules and keeping order? We have a bunch of traffic rules for cars and very limited directions that the cars can travel in. Yet there still are many car accidents and just driving the wrong way can cause it. Keeping order gets a lot harder in flight since you can go in any direction. In real life we have strict selections for who is allowed to fly where and even when so they dont crash. If flying became as common as cars are today then there is no way we could maintain that, the air would be utter chaos and accidents, quite possibly lethal ones would happen like all the time.

[@EyeOfEld]

Women actually did a lot of work in premodern society. They aided in the farmwork and engaged in cottage industry like weaving, dying, pottery, linen making, and more.

[@jensbrandt7207]

In nomadic societies even more so than in sedentary ones.

[@sethleoric2598]

Also they made the ammo in the war

[@Zerpderp0]

It's almost like, as society becomes more stable, a subsection of the society finds themselves staying at home. An interesting theme to work with. Like a mighty Empire, active in trade and commerce, might have someone dedicated staying at home and watching over the house. How would that look in a warrior society or a highly militarized nation? Would the stay at home people be whoever is stronger so that the Home is well defended? Could that potentially lead to women being the leaders in exploring martial arts and weapon craft since they have both the time and need to develop such skills? Or would the men be seen staying at home while the women fight in foreign wars since the nation values home defense rather than martial prowess over others? After all, it's useless as a soldier to bring home glory and plunder if you have no more home to return to. Perhaps these societies will develop along the same path as our own, with the genders roles swapped.

[@ofthecaribbean]

@@Zerpderp0 That could never really be the case. In our world one of the main reasons why we beat the neanderthals was because we seperated occupations based on gender. Men are stronger so they hunted and fought. Women are weaker and so they don't like to fight as much. Plus they have the children so it was only natural for them to stay at the cave to watch them. This gave human children a huge advantage in terms of sheer survivability. They had two streams of protection. Neanderthals didn't do this so it was alot more difficult for them to complete and provide for their young at the same time. This is probably why so many of them just switched sides and bred with humans

[@Zerpderp0]

@@ofthecaribbean What I'm saying is exactly that, but with different possible outcomes based around fantastical realities.

[@hiddenhist]

There is... nothing wrong with the term ‘trade city’. It denotes a city that is particularly known for trading, not for a city that happens to engage in trade.

[@whenthedustfallsaway]

exactly.

[@JMTgpro]

Or it refers to a city with a low level of production and whose only method of subsistence is commerce, when I listen to the term, what comes to mind is that, a city with few farms or mines that only has its ports and roads to stay afloat.

[@drakor98]

J Melchor Venice!

[@Dell-ol6hb]

HiddenHistory exactly when I hear the term trade city I just think of historical city states or republics, like Novgorod, Venice, Genoa, Ragusa, Athens etc.

[@idkusername5789]

I was mostly confused myself as to why he hates ‘trade’ cities so much, but then I realised it’s not the concept but the portrayal he has issues with. Most authors just use it as a means of hand waving away actual descriptions of the economy of the setting, which is worse than had they simply not drawn attention to it.

[@scarlet8078]

I like the video, but just so everyone understands, "trade city" is usually meant to refer to a city that exists primarily for trade, e.g., through a port, such as Amsterdam. Historically, Amsterdam became powerful and wealthy through trade/ shipping as its primary industry. It is true that all cities have trade, but not all cities are primarily for trade. Some examples of other primary industries are New York = financial markets/ Wall St, Washington = government, LA = Hollywood/ entertainment

[@MadManchou]

It is not just that, but can also denote an export-focused city (but obviously, an export focused city usually becomes a trade hub quite quickly). For example, Flemish cities first built up their wealth through the production of cloth, the export of which was their primary source of enrichment. But a city that is essentially in equilibrium (exports about as much as it imports, excluding money) can't really be called a "trade city" just because it happens to trade away. If countries were cities, that would mean that Germany or China would be trade nations, and, well, they are.

[@loonardtheloonard]

All big cities are trade hubs. Repeat with me. Placing cities by any reason other than trade wasn't a thing before 19th century at least EDIT: Also, Washington wasn't made for government. Let me tell you something. If you make a city, you never say "that'll be a big city for big government/entertainment, whatever" You say "Yo, what if I place some three stalls and huts so people going somewhere else can rest" or "Hell, I sure could benefit from not sleeping on bare ground in this otherwise convenient location" If you have a city (at least before 19th century) it means that it's a trade hub. Even if original purpose of the city was to mine dirt. It's a trade hub now, otherwise it wouldn't be a city, it would be a town or whatever. "Trade city" in this case, would be a city, whose original purpose was to be the trade hub, such as Kiev or idk Venice, Florence? But those are just bigger cities"

[@GLitchesHaxandBadAudio]

@@loonardtheloonard Na, D.C. was founded to hold the American government.

[@EL-ISS]

@@loonardtheloonard nah Washington D.C was founded in 1791 to serve as government. Of course it does other things but that was its primary function.

[@loonardtheloonard]

I do not remember posting this

[@StarlasAiko]

The idea of women staying at home doing nothing but house work and raising children was originally just available to the nobles and well-to-do. Middle and lower class women had to work to support their family. The concept of a single-income home didn't exist until the middle 20th Century. Profession being inherited was not the norm by far. It didn't appear in recorded history until several years into the urbanisation and colonial distribution of crafts and agriculture in the Roman Empire, a law that was implemented stipulated that one had to take on the craft or profession of ones father for the purpose of protecting crafts from going extinct...ignorant of inner workings of Roman society, later nations imitated Rome inaccurately, including the inherited profession aspect, without understanding why that existed in the first place.

[@bijtmntongaf]

this

[@Dumpsterhuggies]

I'm sorry but can I get a fucking citation on this, I'm pretty sure housewives existed way before the middle of the 1900s

[@cdtlnc1135]

@@Dumpsterhuggies The OP wasn't saying that they didn't. Only that they were only common among the, to quote the OP, "the nobles and well-to-do." I'd like a citation for this as well for extra reading, but his reasoning does seem to make sense. People in Medieval times, having to farm and take care of their crops (with the ocassional being conscripted to war), they probably did not have as much free time as we have. Any woman would probably be too busy to be a housewife. I think they'd probably be working the fields with their husbands and children.

[@Dumpsterhuggies]

Yeah I mispoke, my impression was that housewives were common for all but the dirt poor. Cooking, cleaning, and taking care of kids is a job in and of itself and unless a family had a third-world standard of living I'd assume they'd want that taken care of. I'd also assume it started to be less common in the 1950s and is certainly less common today since women entered the workforce and parenting has changed.

[@TheRedHaze3]

@@Dumpsterhuggies Even with the dirt poor, the women weren't out mining or something, they were doing stuff like laundry for other, wealthier households.

[@MrRemicas]

Two points as I'm watching your video. First, corporatism does predates capitalism. In Medieval Europe and surely other place as well), cities were often structured around guilds for pretty much everything and anyhting (often very specialised, like there could be a guild for making bread dough, another for making bread from that dough, and so on and so forth). These guilds then regulated prices, quality, and could judge who could be a master of their craft (oftentimes heredetary, since bribes were common), but also gave some sort of social potection. Second, Women were working too. Poor women, sure, but the idea that women were only babymaking factories until the XXth century is only the case for middle and upper classes. They worked on the fields, in the mines, and other activies in town (like in textile or even production of beer). In the medieval era they could also own their own business. I mean, people didn't wait for the discovery of the Americas to trade (but yeah, it did lead to an explosion of it as it became more interconnected).

[@JMTgpro]

Yes, about the role of women on working seriously is a terrible misconception. All the women worked. Single or married, dozens of labor specialties were dominated by women for centuries; Bakery, ale making, spin wool, cattle care, education... Not to mention that if they got married it was expected that they would also assume the same job as her husband, that is, you married with a miner, then welcome to the mine... And if we go further back in time, after the fall of Rome and before the church obtained total cultural and social control after the first crusade; They could be doctors, teachers, lawyers... The idea of the woman at home not working arrived when a single salary began to reach to maintain a group of people, that is, already entering the 18th century

[@madladpallydad9516]

J Melchor most European women between antiquity and the renaissance did work, however the majority of work was done involving the home and hearth among the peasantry. The yeomanry class would work the homestead and often time were pseudo-nobility on the lowest level possible in the feudal world, while their husbands dealt with the peasantry working their land they would work the home by weaving, knitting, or anything that benefits their personal lives. The merchant class, as in those of merchants and tradesmen, would yes, have their wives, daughters, and sisters work the craft (save those like smithing or other heavy physical work). The noble women would create clothing for the household, manage the castle or manor staff, and help the council staff of their Lord husband with certain minor duties. The common denominator of the classes was the fact that women, were in fact baby making factories for their husbands

[@MrRemicas]

@1 2 www.localhistories.org/middleageswomen.html dankoboldt.com/female-professions-medieval-europe/ Just two example after just a couple minutes of research. I'd rather use my own books but they're A) in french and B) in a different city than I am currently. Granted, the case was often the exception rather than the rule, with women running a business often in the absence of a male relative or husband. In most cases a woman could learn the trade but will never be a master. But it's still a far cry from women being just baby factories.

[@Zonno5]

You're talking about mercantilism, which isn't the same as corporatism but whatever.

[@tedarcher9120]

Well, there are guild cities which produce and port trade cities which produce almost nothing and mostly trade

[@tedarcher9120]

@Democratic Communist yeah, pretty much. We can probably name them Bank cities

[@shaunbrowne9870]

I actually do have a theory about how Wakanda works: If a vibranium-infused plant can give a dude super powers, then it stands to reason that vibranium may also make the plants themselves healthier/disease resistant/etc. Now say nine out of ten people in your civilization are farmers (as was the historical average); your crops suddenly producing twice as much food doesn't double your population of non-farmers, it increases it by 450%. And the farming village doesn't need five blacksmiths or six mayors just because it's producing more food, so this excess population's going to make their way to the big cities--meaning you're going to urbanize early and have a lot of fierce competition in your cities. And being so close together facilitates the spread of ideas. (And conveniently, this also explains why Wakanda didn't conquer the world when they had the chance: their dependence on vibranium limits how far they can spread.)

[@MDP1702]

Another thing is, Wakanda kept an eye on the rest of the world. They hid themselves from the world, but they didn't close themselves of from the world. So they'd come into contact with new technology nearly as fast as they would not isolated.

[@amarachiisaac9420]

I don't think Wakanda is in complete isolation, in Captain America: Civil war the show that have a presence in the UN, an are probably apart of the African Union, as well as having wakandans working and establishing businesses in countries like Nigeria. I think to be completely isolated means to not let anyone in, or out, which clearly doesn't apply to Wakanda

[@damian2924]

@@amarachiisaac9420 They not only hide, they disguised their vibranium-dependent high tech existence with being a very poor african country on the outside.

[@sherlockhooves574]

There's a lot more to it than that; just having vibranium is a massive advantage if you can work it. Materials science is a massively underrated limiter on society; think of how advanced metallurgy has improved transportation alone, for example. We had theoretical knowledge of a steam engine long before it became popular, and that's largely because building a useful engine required materials stronger than what was commonly available at the time. Even on a simpler level, a farmer whose tools last pretty much indefinitely will be more effective, and will require less maintenance from a blacksmith. For the civilization as a whole, it's more food for less work, meaning more room for "leisure" activities, like education. Looking at human history, the materials people had to work with were definitely a major influence in how far society would progress. We even use this to name periods: the stone age, the bronze age, the iron age. It's because each of those was a massive step up for civilization as a whole. Finally, Wakanda isn't even all that advanced. Their technology is impressive, but in many ways it's just a step up from Stark technologies, or even what SHIELD has. I'd say they're less than a century ahead of the rest of the world, and only a decade or two ahead of the most cutting-edge organizations. That sort of difference over thousands of years is actually pretty reasonable.

[@justafaniv1097]

19:41 when you think about it, the entire Star Wars saga was put in motion by a trade dispute.

[@hueban1643]

well that was a ploy by the sith in order to destroy the republic so not entirely correct

[@NothingOfNoteToSeeHere]

@@hueban1643 But not entirely wrong...

[@Invadedargument5150-qi6lf]

@hueban1643 its right from a certain point of view

[@smokepotion6981]

"You could be a Slave" James Tullos, 2019.

[@hasnainrazzaq6746]

I don’t want to be a slave tho 😭

[@levitatingoctahedron922]

On the subject of feudalism I want to add some information about a phenomenon that's been being discussed in the modern world. Some people argue that we are developing into "corporate feudalism", especially in large cities. A corporate class owns nearly all of the businesses, and LLCs control nearly all of the renting in major cities, and when people come and work in cities especially in younger generations they are often putting all of their pay to maintain rent and food to create wealth for these organizations, without owning the land that they are living on. The analogy isn't perfect but the emerging system does share a lot of traits with historical feudalism, and observing this might be good inspiration for people who are interested in science fiction/dystopian economics as it's something we are watching develop in realtime. On the subject of science fiction travel, I just want to add that an often overlooked and in my opinion much more realistic answer to the large distances involved in space travel is not faster ships/teleportation but lifespan extension. An eighty light year trip matters a lot less if you live for tens of thousands of years. This of course is harder to relate to and therefore harder to work into fiction that people will purchase, but at least in my opinion this is probably how we will solve the problem of long distance space travel as lifespan extension is a high technological priority for a variety of other reasons and making ships go much faster than our blueprints allow isn't looking very good from what we currently understand about physics. I'm not holding my breath for FTL in any way, personally I don't think that will ever happen. But, it's fiction, just throwing out some stuff I don't hear discussed as often in world building.

[@TripleBarrel06]

This is called an oligarchy, modern oligarchy differs slightly, but for fantasy inspiration ancient Greek poleis had oligarchies at several points in their history.

[@ano_nym]

tbh, an 80+ year time skip quite often in a book would probably feel quite weird. Like we can get the concept of Elrond being there "when the strength of men failed 3000 years ago", but it's quite hard to imagine what he would fill the time with. (as you mention, harder to relate to) Can't we already theoretically make spaceships that could travel at a fraction of light speed, or at least propulsion that could. Of course that is still way to slow for out of solar system travel though, as even light speed would be too slow.

[@danielramsey6141]

About the only Sci-fi where I have seen this to happen in is “Altered Carbon”. That or Cryogenic Sleep.

[@jonathancampbell5231]

You should check out "The Dagger and the Coin". It's an entire epic fantasy built around banking and economics, by the co-author of The Expanse.

[@KiddCrowley]

Sold

[@jghifiversveiws8729]

@@KiddCrowley Yep.

[@matthewciccone7920]

And it has Game of Throne-sy political wrangling too.

[@philipgeyer926]

You really need to mention the relationship between the three-sector economic model and city types. This more than anything is going to define the urban and economic landscape of your world, certainly more than any of the other things you mentioned. Consider for instance the differences between an agricultural centre (medieval Paris or ancient Rome), a trade centre (Constantinople or Venice), a manufacturing centre (Bruges, Sheffield), a service centre (like the old Cathedral cities like Canterbury, university towns like Oxford or simple recreation centres like Baiae), etc. It might also have been more useful to actually explain the related concepts of division of labour and class systems rather than the different political interpretations of this (which don't really make sense anyway without explaining the division of labour). Lastly, explaining the important relationship between war and production, such as that wars are often often fought for control of production, but usually also temporarily destroys it, which is why wars are often so drawn out.

[@jghifiversveiws8729]

Agreed.

[@terinatum]

your idea of women staying at home and have babies is an extremely modern idea. Women have been working in all kinds of societies for a long time. Please consider a bit more research before lumping a whole sex into 'one period in time's' belief.

[@karlfeiden6782]

"don't be ayn rand" is just the better advice anyone had ever bring up into this fantasy nerd scene. hope you keep this amazing job, man

[@lostathenian1836]

Rand was genius.

[@sherlocksmuuug6692]

@@lostathenian1836 Sure, only a true sociopathic genius would manage to con so many sociopathic idiots. Nothing more libertarian than calling altruism the devil while surviving on taxpayer money and contributing nothing to society. Kind of like L Ron Hubbard.

[@joelsavoie8641]

@@lostathenian1836 might want to read a Rand books before saying that

[@lostathenian1836]

@@joelsavoie8641 I actually have. I've read The Virtue of Selfishness, Atlas Shrugged, The Romantic Manifesto, Objectivist Epistemology, and The Fountainhead. From reading her works I have come to the conclusion that she was indeed genius.

[@elliotyourarobot]

Rand is influential but not a genius the people who read her only do so because they benefit from her selfish and romantic thinking like the rich

[@sirpatrick549]

Hey, early. Just the type of topic I like to explore too. Post watch: I'm glad you covered transportation. A civilization lives and dies by it's infrastructure. In something like sci-fi one can really go in depth on how things are transported instead of 'it's all done by da spaceships duh'. Overall, good video.

[@bricky-brikson9487]

19:41 "Trade is something I see rarely done in world building settings" _smiles because the main problem in my book with my world is trade agreements so u will be proud_

[@MrSilvUr]

Ah! Like the inciting incident for the prequel Star Wars trilogy. :-P

[@jonathanboram7858]

In something I'm working on, trade and industry in the main city setting are talked about in chapter 1, because the second scene in the book takes place on a bustling dock. You get to see all the things being exported by the city and things imported by the city as part of the backdrop.

[@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770]

Paper money: “this is my physical form!”.

[@Lord_Imrahil]

Switzerlands biggest export Gold: Even though there is no natural Gold deposits in Switzerland.

[@tanishqvedak1862]

Lord Imrahil they’re making it in the hadron collider

[@xerex21212]

and Singapore is the biggest asian exporter of refined oil even though it produces no oil.

[@HisShadow]

7:42 Are you telling me my new job can be a slave? Winning! 😆

[@thedeadcannotdie]

If there is a job available ou there, chances r somebody wants it, no matter how low others think of it. Prostitution is a perfect example

[@AlMoxtar]

@Kevin Warburton I can't believe I have to point this out, but also rape, abuse, beatings, torture, starvation, living in hovels, no medication, no education, no right to your proper possessions, culture, language, religion, or personal relationships, unpaid work all day everyday all year round, your wife/partner and any parents or children you father being sold away at any time, your life being forfeit, and THE COMPLETE FUCKING LACK OF AGENCY.

[@oskarnymand389]

AlMoxtar R/WOOSH

[@AlMoxtar]

@@oskarnymand389 You think? You have stronger faith in human intelligence.

[@AlMoxtar]

@pokezee king-wolf wtf are you talking about? There is no "slavery in the Islamic sense", it is just slavery.

[@nqomlilo]

This is exactly what I needed! Please also do one on how cities are built? What religeious structures go where ETC?

[@sirpatrick549]

I'll chip in my two-cents. Before modern times cities weren't really planned out, so things were built wherever they were needed. Most things needed to be in walking distance, like markets and sources of water. As for religious structures, they can be placed willy-nilly, but the local authorities might intervene and designate a specific place they want their religious building to go. Considering how long it took to build things and gather materials without motorized transport and construction, even a section of a city that was planned out could have variations as generations of architects work on them.

[@696190]

he already has a video on cities, check it out.

[@TheCrippledCreeper]

@@sirpatrick549 this isn't completely true. Lots of empires employed some basic level of city planning. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_urban_planning

[@commander31able60]

4000-level political economy in 20 minutes. university professors hate him!

[@rodrickhatton8636]

I love everything about this video EXCEPT the fact that you forgot the fact that Wakanda has been actively sending out spies to different countries since all of forever. T'Challas uncle (Killmongers father) was one of those people. Logically, this would explain their acquisition of technology from the outside world and their ability to take these advancements and expand upon them. Additionally, as far as the world is concerned Wakanda is a simple kingdom...farmers, sheep herders, textile makers. So they have a "front" to the world that people would logically visit. The REAL Wakanda is hidden. That's my only beef with the video. Other than that, great stuff as usual!

[@laddibugg]

Yeah,just take the whole Wakanda part out . It makes total sense.

[@rodrickhatton8636]

@Sixshooter 9 I dont know dude. If you think about it...a society that values it's people above profit could accomplish a shit ton. Culturally, the Wakandan's could achieve this...same as Atlantis. You also have to keep in mind Vibranium has Mutengenic properties which could explain a heightened intelligence. Just my view of the matter.

[@petersmythe6462]

Government interventionism doesn't necessarily mean mixed mode of production. I.E. Nazi Germany had a completely capitalist mode of production but had a high degree of government intervention so the ruling class could police itself.

[@Alexander-gq4lz]

Nobles didn't just do "nothing"?? Especially in the case of Scandinavia, those were often the ones serving in the armies (Knights were often = Noble, especially from the Viking times to around 1400s), and the original noble families were literally the chiefs of previous tribes, jarldoms etc. literally making them elite warriors (and often craftsmen too). Later, they more or less became identical with the scholars, and finally around the 1700s the nobles had their own mostly diplomatic function, which could be argued to be doing "nothing", at least if you compare salaries with the common people. To give a short explanation of the nobles of Denmark specifically, the Viking kings often had close friends or relatives that he would use more or less as a type of bodyguard (called Hirð) that were often given land depending on fx. how much they gathered through raids, or much they gained through trading etc. (could even be how much they farmed). These were turned into the earliest noble houses such as Hvid, the sub-branches of the royal family. Then as mentioned, a lot of knights and other warriors were made into nobles (meaning they were required to be educated in both the book AND sword) with even small families like Duus, Banner or Huitfeld, the last of which also had a sub-house called Kaas that even ruled the country momentarily in royal conflict. What did happen throughout especially the 1600s and 1700s was that owners of large areas of land or people who had done a significant deed were made into nobles and the expectation of their children being way less so than that of their forefathers. This is the closest to what you said "doing nothing", yet majority still were hard workers, with low nobility still as far up as 1800 working in industries such as milling or blacksmithing (in case of my own family, I had an impoverished noble great great grandfather who owned a pub. By impoverished I mean he had lost his estate when the Germans invaded Schleswig but he was still noble by title).

[@miketacos9034]

Mah Boi got sponsored!! Fantastic video as always!

[@perfectlybalanced5951]

Finally, a world building video! Keep up the good work

[@gergokerekes4550]

i really like the C-bill concept of battletech which is based on a fixed amount of ComStar service, transmission time, or delivery distance of data for example 1 C-bill is 1 second of 1GB/s over 1 lightyear.

[@Cyricist001]

Jared Diamond is a very unreliable source, he doesn't cite references and made a number of big mistakes.

[@kilomillensimus9379]

Yeah, like I'm not saying anything you mention in this video is inaccurate, but if you get info from that guy, you need to double-check his work.

[@rodrigorios4146]

Great work man, keep making videos like this, you help a los with my worldbuilding process.

[@kenkoopa7903]

Should be noted that no, not everything Marx said is 100% right, even admitting that as a leftie myself. The linear progression of civilizations is something we applied a posteriori upon looking back at our own progression, and Marx was a product of his time where those notions were very popular.

[@philipgeyer926]

Money doesn't necessarily have to be rare/valuable, though this is a good thing in case of the collapse of central authorities to regulate commonplace currencies like paper or ceramic. Money however must be durable. Also, it can't have a practical value. (On this point you're way off.) When you have a currency with practical value, like steel for instance, the moment you have economic turmoil, people start using up the currency for practical needs instead of saving it for trade, and then your economy completely flatlines because now there's no more trade, only barter. Gold for instance is durable, but essentially useless except for non-use purposes like adornment. If gold could be used to make swords or plowshares, it would be used up faster than it could be minted.

[@riley8385]

Back when there was an economic crisis here in Argentina, people used punched 25cents coins as flat washers, because it was cheaper than actual flat washers.

[@MadManchou]

There are places in Africa that use salt as money, and salt very much has a practical value. What is important is how far down the line it is in the production line. Iron, for example, will always have more value when transformed, so is useless as a form of money. Similarly, most foods aren't valid "currencies" because they can be transformed further (into dishes). Spices however (such as salt) are essentially an end-product. The question has to be : can I buy something without making an inflation loop? For example : if a loaf of bread takes 500g of wheat to make but is valued at 1000g, then one loaf of bread = two loaves of bread = four loaves of bread. It doesn't make sense because the "currency" (grams of wheat here) can be used to create something inherently more valuable that allows for the inflation loop (or in this case, deflation), and which has practically infinite demand (since bread is a basic food). Silver / Gold / Spices can be valid currencies because the demand for "finished products" is low : there's only ever so much jewellery that a society will consume (jewellery being a "refined" form of silver and gold). And the same goes for spices. However, it is true that the currency will be inherently more stable the less useful the product used is outside of its function as a currency. Which is why metals that are practically ubiquitous (coins) and paper banknotes are inherently more stable than gold-standard (although, in an advanced society, making money can cost more money than the worth : cf pennies and 1 / 2 cents coins)

[@aisir3725]

"money can't have practical value" gold, silver and copper: wut?

[@prcervi]

@@aisir3725 money does better if it doesn't have a long list of practical uses, because you won't then use the materials all up on said practical uses and have nothing for trade later

[@RonioFOX]

Manorialism is the economical system in most of the feudal world

[@abelardodelatorresolis3966]

How's that?

[@williamdunkleman7937]

Read that as Mandalorianism at first

[@d00dufd00dz]

This was awesome. You’re very concise yet explain it in a lamens term way that’s very fun and interesting to watch. Love your stuff. Keep it comin

[@jaojao1768]

*layman's

[@SallinKari]

This kind of reminds me of an idea I had for my world where mana, the thing required for magic to work, flowed in a cycle sort of like the water cycle. Essentially the mana spent would enter the earth and then come out at mana wells. Now these were inherently dangerous to own as monsters required mana for their biology to function and the more mana in an area the more and more powerful monsters could and would be there, but on the other hand it would allow for the creation of much cheap magical equipment and artifacts, so if a nation managed to hold onto a particularly large mana well they would be fabulously wealthy, but if their strength waned then monsters would retake it and cause a collapse of their economy and could very easily shunt them into a dark age where they loss a large portion of their technology since they no longer had the means to produce the magical tools that ran their society, which in turns leads to the loss of that knowledge. It also explains why dragons and other super-powerful monsters won't just destroy cities at a whim... They can't survive in areas with little magic so they become restricted to certain zones.

[@shandhi5391]

'The Dispossessed' by Ursula K Le guin is a sci-fi novel that's based around a stateless, moneyless but highly industrial anarcho-syndicalist planet. They don't barter but the products are distributed and consumed based on individual needs. The world is very well written and well developed.

[@AndreasVNesje]

Norway 800 years ago had one huge trade city (Bergen), trading goods to germany and denmark. The other two major cities are more well known for religious and military reasons, hence Bergen was never the real capitol, but rather the link to the outside world. Trade city is definitely a term usable to some cities, but not all.

[@VaggelisIosifidis]

Wow! I really love your videos, because they are so detailed. It seems you 've thought everything through

[@Jagrofes]

The Bullets as currency idea was used in the Metro series. Traditional money became almost valueless after the nukes fell, since people were scrounging for resources to survive. Defending yourself in the murky depths of the Moscow Metro system was always valuable, so pre-war 5.45mm rounds became the main currency.

[@rociomiranda5684]

I'm learning so much! Thank you, James.

[@BigFabsel]

Liked the video very much, just wanted to comment on the trade city part, since would generally agree there were no cities without trade, but there were definitely cities, that acquired most of their wealth by trading (to a huge part with foreign goods) like Amalfi, Genua, Venice or later Amsterdam and to some level London (obviously there are/were more of those, but lets just cut it here). Therefor i'd say it would be fair to call those trade cities, since trade played the most important part in their economy (opposed to local production) and made them kinda famous plus gave them political importance.

[@BigFabsel]

@Sixshooter 9 I didn't say that it is a historical correct term, i said the two criteria mentioned by me, would qualify a city to be named a trade city in fantasy/ alternate history book, at least for me. I just want to mention, that i of course know every city traded. My point is, that there are/were cities, which gained most of their wealth and influence by trading, often becoming main trade hubs for a lot of foreign as well as local goods (like Venice). By the way, never heared of anything like a free trade city in the HRE. What would the translatione be? The only "special" cities i know are Free cities (Freie Städte), Imperial cities (Reichsstädte) and, Hansestädte (no clue how to translate that), which by the way didn't necessarily have more privileges than other cities. But I have never heared of anything that would look like a privilege given to a multitude of cities apart of imperial immediacy -> imperial cities. I mean i'm actually curious where you did get this information from or weather this is something i already know by a different name.

[@forestelfranger]

@@BigFabsel That and you figure. Hmm is a city that has a few trade goods vs a city where you can find almost everything created by man kind really be on the same level as one another? Sounds like one would be more prestigious or at least talk about differently than a normal city, due to how wealthy and rich it is. So even if trade city is not a fitting term as some say. It seems like there would still be something that would make these cities stand out from others. Be it the way people talk about it or the way it looks, due to all the extra wealth it can spend on say making the walls look golden or made of silver.

[@BigFabsel]

@@forestelfranger Not sure weather a city ever tried to build its walls out of silver (let's be honest, that would have looked pretty cool), but yeah thats more or less my point :D

[@BigFabsel]

@Sixshooter 9 Good to know, thanks for the info. So what you are saying the word 'Hanse' was mistaken for 'Handel(s)'?

[@vomothytigan5377]

This is something I will watch/listen billions of times as I will try to incorporate trade and economy both to my alien worlds and the much later inter-galactic federation. It seems everywhere I look for worldbuilding advice they always seem to point out the missed potential of fictional economy and trade. Which, yes, its complicated and requires research but can be made interesting if done right. Or at least with enough detail.

[@MeltedCheesefondueGruyere]

Thanks! Lots of good insights. Three caveats: women-at-home is mainly middle classes in rich societies; historically, there was women's work and men's work, but there was a lot more overlap than we might think. Secondly, money and inequality was a big feature of feudal societies, even among the peasantry; see for example "Life in a medieval village" (Frances Gies, Joseph Gies). Acquiring money, being fined for money, marrying into money, etc... were constant preoccupations for all classes. And lastly, people overstate the economic advantage of war, especially in the last few centuries (though even before that). Wars were fought much more often for reasons of "honour", deterrence, fear, political machinations, and similar reasons, rather than economics. When they were fought for economic reasons, the results tended to be disappointing.

[@QueenCloveroftheice]

Psst, I haven’t watched the entire video yet, so this may be mentioned, but just in case, an excellent portrayal of fantasy economics can be found in the series Spice & Wolf. It delves into how the church changed the economy of the land and how companies can use shady tactics to pay less money for goods than they’re worth, and so much more. And it’s never boring because the series has such compelling characters and excellent exposition that doesn’t drag on for too long. I highly recommend it.

[@IdiotinGlans]

One thing to remember regarding trade is the demand effect. Basically, if you have so much of useless thing it is super cheap but then people from other place come and start buying a lot of it cheap, people will start selling it and inadverty competting over it, making the prices go higher.

[@ElCaballoTV]

Great overview in 20mins, shared on twitter & encouraged ppl to watch it

[@amehak1922]

Trades and guilds were around during feudalism. The Klingon empire is a good example of an industrial feudal society.

[@sweatergod5386]

Oh shit this is exactly what I've been looking for right when I needed it. Thanks!

[@Lunalis]

There's this Japanese light novel series by the name of Spice and Wolf that I think you might like. It's a high fantasy setting with literal, tangible gods, but the main character is a trader, and the story heavily focuses on economics in this fantasy land.

[@randalthor741]

Cities that are referred to as "trade cities" are generally referred to that way because they are cities that exist entirely (or almost entirely) to facilitate trade between *other* cities, as opposed to cities that actually produce a significant amount of some sort of commodity that is then traded with other cities. It's the difference between an agricultural city that trades the grain that it produces with other cities, or a mining city that trades the ore/metal products that it produces with other cities, with a city that doesn't produce enough of anything to have significant exports, but thrives because its location makes it a hub that the trade goods of other cities pass through in large quantities. Most of the cities along the Silk Road would be considered trade cities, as would places like Venice. On the other hand, a city like Aswan would not be considered a trade city, as they were primarily known as producers of quarried stone rather than as a hub of trade (although of course their quarried stone was traded to other cities). So your rant about cities being referred to as "trade cities" doesn't really make any sense, as it's a term used to differentiate cities that produce significant amounts of goods for export from cities that are hubs of trade but which don't produce significant amounts of goods for export. All cities trade, but that does not make all cities trade cities.

[@TheDcraft]

As to your rant, I've read historical non-fiction books that describe certain cities as trade cities. Also not all cities are trade cities, look at Sparta for instance, trade was looked down upon in their society. Usually when a city is described as a trade city it means that it's primarily a trade city, that it only exists, or is as large as it is, because of it's key position along trade routes. They aren't cities that appear in fertile flood plains or have religious significance. A lot of times they're cities with populations larger than the surrounding agricultural land can actually support but reach these large numbers thanks to revenue and surplus created but trade.

[@randalthor741]

Really good choice of sponsor by the way. I don't mind sponsored videos in general as long as the sponsor isn't completely irrelevant to the content, and I always appreciate it when it's as directly relevant as it is in this case.

[@lovaszaron3138]

Your video is a great primer. Thank you.

[@thegreatmarondraith8741]

I appreciate the isolation part. In my book there is a tribe of orcs that live in icy cold glacial regions and outside of their magic, they have little to no technology. This was their choice as they felt like the strongest people choosing to brave the cold where no one else can

[@fatlardish]

Great video, James! Keep it up

[@JavlinVII]

Enjoyed the video sir, keep up the good work.

[@thomasfplm]

In medieval times, there were trading guilds that could be quite powerful, economically and politically speaking, in cities, a member of a weapomsmyth guild had priority and better prices for acquiring metal against someone who wasn't part of it, also, being part of the gild ment that you were already quite able. The guild itself could have quite a bit of money, hire guards and could influence the nobles in the region. About Wakanda, you could say that they isolated in the sense that they hid what happened in the country, but they had people visiting other countries.

[@Evanarix]

"If you craft a world story to express how your chosen ideology is great or awful then you're basically just Ayn Rand....don't be Ayn Rand" loved this xD and yes..don't be Ayn Rand.

[@shinigmiblacky1331]

7:39 "New jobs sprang up, you could be furniture maker, a sailor, a gun smith, *a slave*, or a merchant"

[@HangmanFilms56]

very well done and very helpful.

[@squid1481]

You got a sponsor? Nice! Good going James

[@AndromedaElysia]

Comrade James? Love your content.

[@seank.2589]

12:27 THANK YOU! So many people look over this fact!

[@donniejefferson9554]

All I'm saying is that there are certain cities in the middle east that got far richer than they normaly would have been able to because of their perfect position between europe and Asia. I think they count as trade cities

[@dvklaveren]

I'm making a city called Stygia. It's a city built around an entrance to the Styx, which connects to other worlds in theory, but practically gets used as a shortcut to other port cities. In the city, there used to be craftsmen, but there was an invasion that drove about half the population away. This drives the city into a trade deficit spiral, as they don't have people to craft new things, only to purchase them elsewhere. The city is of incredible strategic value, so a lot of taxes are raised to protect itself. It literally is a trade city. The population itself is slowly becoming impoverished, with little upward mobility due to a lack of jobs. They'll recover in a century or so, but the demand for workers is so low, very few skill is actually being passed down and mostly kept in the family.

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

Your video about worldbuilding is making me realize how real-life society actually works.

[@magnusyarbrough5527]

An economy video that's actually informed and not just "ideology ebil"

[@mollof7893]

In my world there is one city that’s very rich. It doesn’t really have a lot of good resources, but it sits in a water way that connects an inner sea to the outer ocean, so people in the city go sail out into the world to trade stuff and then go back to their home city. Then poeple from the inner sea comes to trade stuff for outer ocean stuff, so in that way the city becomes rich. There is also a fee on traveling threw the Water way for people outside the city.

[@petersmythe6462]

Using practical items as money is unrealistic over the long term based on the principle of bad money replacing good. In reality, if you start using, say, food as money, people will eat the good food and sell the bad. The practical upshot is that if anything is ever worth anywhere near its monetary value in practical uses, it will stop circulating. Part of the reason money DOES circulate at all is because people want to get rid of it and have useful things instead.

[@alexsnewhandle]

Great take on the economies bro

[@hugoweaving7320]

Great video, James - would it be possible to ask for links to the maps you used in the description? I think they'd make great resources.

[@beyond12021]

Very interesting and useful video, thank you :-)

[@philipgeyer926]

Read a bit more about urban geography - there really is such a thing as trade cities. Some cities , called central places, are collection and distribution points for the surrounding agricultural region, in which they are centrally located. Then there are non-central place cities which are located mostly on trade routes and specialize more on long distance exchanges of goods.

[@meaninter03]

All cities exist because of trade. Central places are also central to the trade of goods and services. So, you're saying some are tradier? All cities are on trade routes.

[@verbulent_flow6229]

6:15 Also, if you have enough time on your hands, that can REALLY help. Keynes, Friedman, Marx, Wanniski, etc. can be a great addition to your worldbuilding as long as you criticize their ideas along with accepting them. The best way would be to read two tomes of opposing political views, and then synthesize them into one philosophy. After all, for a proper court case, you need both sides to testify.

[@Libotheos]

You've earned yourself a subscriber 💕💕💕

[@MrDeothor]

5:20 you are kinda wrong about feudalism I think. Nobles had armies, which were used by king in time of need. The king had little army of his own compared to overall army of the whole kingdom. 7:01 actually nobles took everything they could without starving farmers. The whole part about money is just wrong/silly.

[@dvklaveren]

That hugely depends on the era and the country. Not all armies were raised by noble men. In fact, I'm not entirely sure where the idea comes from that it was nobles who had armies. They could raise them, but they needed taxes to do it. So could the king. And you're just dead wrong about farmers being practically starved. That was true in some parts of the world, but it was hardly the whole picture.

[@JosephWiess]

I enjoy your lectures on how to create fictional countries.

[@Alejojojo6]

Money was invented in ancient greece, and was used all over the Roman empire until the Middle Ages. Even then it was used. However, exchange of goods was still practices at times.

[@jagaskins]

For my DnD campaign I’ve developed a main trade city that is important because it is the most accessible port on an island that has mines for a rare metal used in magic. I’ve got the usual royalty, military along with two big shipping companies based there. What else would likely exist in such a city?

[@aeyempire]

I am disappointed at the start. Not all cities are trade cities. Yes majority but not all.. Other than that rest of the video is perfect.

[@luizpaulosantosribeiro9005]

Well, some may not be trade oriented cities, but unless its a place where everyone solo produce every single thing they need, some trade will happen

[@abcdef-cs1jj]

Cities always rely on trade to sustain themselves, yes. But there are cities that trade with local farmers and are recieving goods from traders travelling there to sell their wares to the people and there are cities that are a channeling point for trade from far and wide - traders go to this city not nessecarily just to sell their stuff to the locals at the market but to sell it to other merchants or to travel further from this point on. So I think the term 'trade city' has some merits: These are cities that are international trade nodes instead of simply a convenient market for the locals and on occasion the target of a few merchants that want to sell the townspeople kettles and fine linnen. And nobles didn't do 'nothing'. They often were priests, most of them were warriors/leaders and they made up almost all of the governement. They run society, were its thinkers and first line of defense ... those privileges didn't come from nothing. Other than that a great video again :)

[@kvereensr1]

Coming from a city that is not be a trade city I understand the term. I am from biggest city in my state but it essentially started as a farming that continued to expand. Trade cities are usually beside rivers or modern times mountains do that trade can go in an out city via boats and train.

[@jamestitus472]

Trophic economic theory would be a good rabbithole to research.

[@megusta9268]

trade cities are cities around, and sustained, because of trade. They are not sufficient on their land nor their intrinsic produce from surrounding vassal settlements as their population specifically relies on the trade route it straddles, acting as not the border of an empire but as an industrial encampment that keeps their trade alive despite being months apart. Were they not there, trade as a whole would plummet.

[@FabioDivino1129]

holy god . you got it all right xD all the economic parts are pretty accurate at least u know how it works and what ur talking about - i cant tell 100% but im going to re-view this video more times to pay more attention

[@sosukeaizen7028]

Good stuff.

[@susanbuckminster282]

Thank you!

[@tompatterson1548]

With scifi the answer to the question of "why don't they use machines" is something is making an EMP so they don't work. IDK, a solar flare or something.

[@13BlueCrimson]

Hey James, can you make a video that discusses some of the most important thing that a fantasy writer should consider when writing a fantasy book. It doesn’t have to be long, a few bullet points is fine.

[@eave01]

I live everything you do. So funny.

[@zkingsalsa]

james tullos is the only guy i know who can begin a video with socialism and end it with magic gold cannons

[@dirus3142]

Battletech. Battletech is a 30+ year old table top war game with a huge amount of world building. Novels, source books, campaign scenarios, a cartoon, and video Games. Because of the limitations of interstellar travel, and culture, humanity uses a kind of feudalism. It also has two forms of currency. There is a national currency for each cultural group. However it is secondary to the real currency The C-Bill. Which is based on a standard unit of data for galactic communication. In other words. One minute of telephone time equals one space AT&T buck.

[@dark_fire_ice]

In the feudal system the top of the social political rank is an emperor, then high king, king, high prince, prince, arch Duke, Duke, earl, baron, marquis, viscount, count, landed knight, knight, gentleman. Those in the middle changed from time to time

[@verybarebones]

Housewives are an extremely modern concept. If your family was a farmer family, the woman would have to farm as well. The kids too. No hands to spare. Sometimes they'd to just support jobs, eg weave baskets to carry stuff, fix tools and fetch water, whatever, but only the nobility women could afford to stay home.

[@Metalhammer1993]

hi, do you by any chance have something about hidden parallel societies? like the vampires in vampires the masquerade or the wizards of Harry Potter. because that is a great concept, but while it is better exectuted in vampires it is done so pretty stupidly imho in Harry potter for instance, but i have no real idea how to effectively improve it^^

[@whenthedustfallsaway]

This is just wrong. Take a look at Common Sense by Thomas Paine. People first develop communities in order to 1. maintain lineage 2. share in manpower and thus increase efficiency 3. to trade among themselves. Man is naturally communal so villages are bound to form. All cities trade (though its not inherent) as a result of shared goals, but not all cities are trade cities. A mining town is not a trade city - they trade their coal and steel for money, but that is the extant. Their town is more like a quarry to an abbey - merely a factory producing the supplies needed elsewhere. Select Model: Point A -> Point B. Trade cities perfect the art of import/export, such as Constantinople. It is possible nearly all of the city's income comes from trade/trade taxes. Select Model: Point A Point B And then there are banking cities in which there is almost no trade of goods, just the notion of security. And the Tradition cities, which come together and remain together due to tradition, regulation , and family bonds more than anything else. I.E. Sparta, Jerusalem.

[@MDP1702]

And possibly also political cities/geographic cities who exist primarily because of government residence, located at important border crossings, ...

[@whenthedustfallsaway]

@@MDP1702 sure. Though border-cities tend either to be military cities or trade cities.

[@phosspatharios9680]

"You can populate your world with nothing but lizard anime lolis" If the next Compile Heart franchise has even a single lizard person, I'll put all the blame on you

[@gaintmoleperson4660]

James Tillus is a true comrade✊✊✊✊

[@radupitica]

Full disclosure, I'm making this comment in response to your rant on trade cities prior to watching the rest of the video so I might make an ass of myself if you explain this further on but I think when people call things trade cities they mean to imply that that's the major facet of the city, not that other cities don't have this aspect. Ie. My fictionalcityopolis is a trade city because it primarily trades, there's no fishery, no major industry, etc. Whereas fictionaltownopia is a major fishing and religious center (and also does trade).

[@nadeshikotwentyfive2740]

I think they are called "trade cities" simply because it is the trading aspect of their city is what they are famous for.