How Tony Hawk Ruined Hardflips

Before you ask: Yes I skate, and yes, I can hardflip. See me trick tip for it here: • Shred School: How to H...
Tony Hawk confused a lot of new skaters with his games' hardflips in the late '90s, and inspired a lot of other games to confuse people even more. Here are some clips of the worst hardflips in video games.
Games featured:
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater (Dreamcast)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 (Dreamcast)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 (PS2)
X-Games Skateboarding (PS2)
Evolution Skateboarding (PS2)
MTV Skateboarding (PSX)
Skaters featured:
Chad Muska
Chet Thomas
Daewon Song
Kareem Campbell
Tyrone Olson
- and a few others. Some were guest tricks, so it's hard to track down names.
--
Music credits:
Mega Rust by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommon...)
Artist: www.twinmusicom...
"Secrets of the Schoolyard" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons...
"Pamgaea" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons...

[@VLSkate]

and thus you've solved the mysterious origin of my "vertical pop shove its"

[@nightmarecentral675]

Hey it's you

[@zenithbtn2478]

VLSKATE!!

[@camronsatterfield8671]

I can never tell when I do a hard flip or a shitty vertical front shuv haha

[@84brcko]

I used to do pressure flips in late 90's and everyone me included thought it was a hardflip. I got them really high and 100% vertical. It took me very long time to realize that it was not a hardflip... Sad story :)

[@360flip19]

I dont think anyone who started skating in the early 2000's would dislike this video. Everything here is spot on. I remember some kid at my school doing pop shuvits and calling them hardflips. People forget how much these games influenced an entire generation of skaters. Great video.

[@legitskateclips]

if you learned how to skate from video games, its natural that you would be confused about a lot of tricks

[@tylerp3327]

legitskateclips true, the fact Tony hawk games had "FS overcrooks" (most would argue that there's no such thing and is simply a nosegrind) messed with a lot people for a long time

[@j8kharr1s]

it's true though, some dudes just do fs pop shuvz between their legs nd call em hardflips

[@wildchild89]

j8kharr1s That is true! Lol

[@PhaseSkater]

rob dyrdic said they exist. and just watch a james hard front overcrook. its almost a noseblunt

[@Miadaskate]

Tyler Payment ....But an overcrook is an actual thing.

[@Omiranda47]

turn down your music please. so I can hear you better. 😀

[@RadRatVideo]

Thanks for the comment. A few other people said the same thing, and I've gotten much better at mixing audio in my newer videos.

[@chimyshark]

this was great man, I love the history, and you're the best man to tell this kind of story. that Daewon clip gave me goosebumps.

[@FrancescBoixSkate]

So well estructured! Great job

[@SrEvoc]

Coño que casualidad! Quien iba a decirme que me encontraría al Boix aquí cuatro años después :D Un abrazo señooor

[@dominodoge]

@@SrEvoc x2

[@propdouchebag]

Here's the info you need; Hardflip is a front shuv Kickflip. Saved you 10 minutes.

[@AskYaMommyBoutMeBoi]

When you realize 360 hardflips are back foot lasers

[@AskYaMommyBoutMeBoi]

TheSpaceCoyote82 when you realize back smiths are frontfoot bigspins

[@14Dirty88]

true... but what you really need to know is every move he names is its own move... thats why they all have different names.. and this guy is a fucking idiot and wasted 10 minutes of everyones life lol

[@TheKingOfToast]

@@14Dirty88 His point was that at one point in time all of these differently named tricks were being called hardflips.

[@Saliiraan]

Dont tell me what I need.

[@jaysant6958]

I personally like how vertical hard flips look still.

[@nwmxrider]

Absolutely!! straight Muska flip all the way!

[@baka8693]

Muska Hardflips and Frontside flips are ill as fuck, so much style. I feel like the more pressure sensitive and pocket pop based hardflips people do now-a-days lack the style of how Chad executed these beautiful tricks.

[@stillonvhs5798]

gross, it's a wonder the board didn't get caught on the drop crotch sagged jncos back in the day

[@philetee1140]

I agree

[@s.shephard8547]

can't argue this for a fact but i feel like anyone who still likes these hard flips probably skates street with a helmet and thinks darkslides are sick af

[@molly3rd]

Tony hawk cant hardflip on flat in pro skater 4

[@sistaledaren]

He barely can in real life

[@anthonyshockey5576]

realism

[@WithoutAChance64]

Ilovetreflips hahahahahaha!

[@lechuguillaman]

Great Job explaining this. Did not expect I'd even sit through this 10 minute video. As soon as dude began talking about this hardflip confusion it was like those were my exact same thoughts. I'm sure they are too for anyone who's been skating for the last 15 or more years. It was like trying to figure out calculus. If it wasn't for the "confusion " of what this trick was really done I'd probably learn them at least 5 years earlier than when I did learn them

[@tuodekab]

dude you fit the description of "skate nerd" to a t haha. I really dig the video. i'm also a big skate nerd and for the past 16 years that ive been obsessed with skateboarding, ive also been super analytical about how tricks are done.

[@tedsimmons4756]

Study the physics of gyroscopic precession. It explains why hardflips have to look vertical, the precession angular momentum vector acts to amplify the ollie torque. That's why they look so different from varial kickflips.

[@HenryT]

Frontside Varial Kickflip vs Hardflip, Study the physics of gyroscopic precession. It explains why Hardflips have to look vertical, the precession angular momentum vector acts to amplify the ollie torque. That's why they look so different from Varial Kickflips.

[@yvess3010]

Yaay I gave the 100th vote, can I be a little bit famous too now? :)

[@Cryohh]

tuodekab Same here, I dig this video and the way he looks at it

[@Micropterus06]

Geek and nerd aren't the same thing, difference is one is sociable

[@semarugaijin9451]

Dude, You content is amazing and completely unique and I absolutely love it, Your production values are excellent and I love the idea of content that explores the history and evolution of skateboarding. Keep up the good work.

[@SolaceReignFalls]

If you saw koston listening to tony hawk talking about the hardflip he looks like wtf?!?!

[@ActingLikeABoss]

Koston is the last person you should take advice from when it comes to hardflips. He can hardly do them flat.

[@riot8130]

Does Koston still skate Mongo? Lol

[@arealgoodguy]

Hard flips are difficult for him. I’m surprised he was even in the video. Lol

[@jt-hb8lh]

@@arealgoodguy Actually he is really good at switch hardflips

[@arealgoodguy]

@jim - Hardflips are one of his more challenging maneuvers. The flip he has the most difficulty with.

[@guitarskate613]

I saw this video was almost 10 minutes long, so I just thought to myself "I'll just check it out real quick, maybe skim through it," definitely not planning on watching the whole thing. You immediately got my attention, and before I knew it, the video was over. Very entertaining, would definitely watch more. Jesus I'm glad you're making videos again, I never thought I would see the day haha.

[@RadRatVideo]

+Anthony H Wow, thanks a lot! I was worried about the length, but I couldn't think of anything I could cut, so I just rolled with it.

[@anthonyholder7629]

I like your initials

[@AlwaysIllBlood]

I learned hardflips real young and had them down but people used to fuck with me that it was not a hardflip, instead some kind of circus trick because mine didn't go vertical.

[@RadRatVideo]

Yeah and over here, there was a kid who did frontside shove its kind of vertical, and everyone said they were hardflips. It was a weird time.

[@MacroEverythingAroundMe]

CaotsIII - Bro, that's a circus peanut flip. Get it right.

[@Kinnijup]

Watched the whole video and I still don't understand how Tony Hawk ruined hardflips.

[@RadRatVideo]

His game fueled a lot of confusion by having weird hardflips, and inspiring other games to have weird hardflips too. That made a lot of skaters not know what the trick is and how to do it.

[@theend32001]

sorry, but a vertical hard flip is still a hard flip. as long as it's being flicked by the toe it doesn't matter if it goes between your legs or not. That's just the world we live in.

[@Kinnijup]

theend32001 Yeah I gotta gree with theend. Saying some of these aren't hardflips is the same as saying a kickflip isn't a kickflip if it is flipped with a downwards motion instead of a flick. Just cause one is less appealing to some people doesn't mean it's not the same trick.

[@afzelover3255]

Yeah chad muska did vertical hardflips/frontside flips before tony hawk or any of the video games. I have done them both horizontal and vertical and it feels like the only difference is where my body goes after I jump, I stand more still for the vertical ones and go backward for the horizontal one. The confusion comes from video game nerds who knew nothing about skating in the 90's and found out about tony hawk and loved it so much they wanted it to be real and imitated these "special tricks" and whatever else they added.

[@chimyshark]

back then there weren't thousands of videos of kids teaching hardflips, people relied on skate vids or games. games were more popular, so most people who ever heard the word "hardflip" would try to imitate the in-game move, which was usually programmed wrong. due to the popularity of these games, back then, a lot of people did a trick they CALLED the hardflip, but wasn't really a hardflip.

[@DjAfroThunderDj]

was not expecting to stick around. I'd watch informative vids like this for hours. keep it up man

[@NinjaLifestyle]

HAHAHAHAHAHA this is awesome! Muska flip for the win!

[@yeahdude984]

bro i see you everywhere fuck off

[@mangy2fly604]

Yeah bro leave yeah dude alone or i will fight you on the playground during recess

[@bhrriss]

Lmfao

[@psychoboitrip3125]

NinjaLifestyle he literally looks like you LMFAO

[@mcoupe69]

psychoboitrip time to lay off the hallucinogens and go to an eye doctor fatty

[@buffalotomholt]

Great video, Man! As a nerdy artist w 20+ yrs of skating under my belt, I dig the level you dug into this. Definitely do more episodes. It's great finding bits of perspective and knowledge. That video of Kenny Anderson explaining that a sugarcane is a Miller grind is great for example. anyways, keep it up!

[@RadRatVideo]

I haven't seen that! I'll have to look it up. Thanks for the comment.

[@buffalotomholt]

jus search 'kenny anderson sugarcane' in youtube. i can't seem to paste it here

[@slackjawstudio]

I gotta say man, good to have you back on the utube. I remember 6 7 years ago watching the trick tip videos, i also remember that the kickflip video helped me actually land it. Props man

[@IvynTaasin]

When I was growing up rule of thumb was hardflips has to go between your legs or it's not a hardflip. But I grew up during the chad muska era. Early 2000's at the peak of his popularity

[@sasukekuniski1959]

not a boss

[@stilahlivechris.uriarte1945]

It had to turn as if went through your legs...

[@JNith]

lol man i remember back then this was the trick everyone wanted to learn aside from the tre/360 flip. if you could do a hardflip you were the coolest kid on the block haha

[@ThisHandleFeatureIsStupid]

Confirmed. I was the first to land them consistently at my park, and did it right after debunking an older skater's claim that his big move was a hardflip (it was a vertical FS flip). That fame scored me a Playstation, and more free joints than I can remember. Ahhhhhh, memories. :)

[@benllewellyn1887]

Ahahahaha

[@holdenmcfoldy457]

Exaggerated title. The birdman didn't ruin hardflips, he just caused alot of confusion

[@jameslougheed6605]

There was never any confusion on these tricks in my scene back in the early 90’s. A frontside flip was considered the same trick as a frontside kickflip. Nobody referred to it as a muska flip just because you executed it with style. Take away the body varial and it became a hard flip. Make it a heel flip and became an “inward heel flip”.

[@loveandnapalm]

You're talking to people who play skate video games more than they skate. It was certainly never a mystery what they were or how they worked, its just sticking 2 tricks together and I think most of us learned vflips directly after kickflips so it just made sense to pop it frontside at some point.

[@scottdetail]

came for the hardflip, stayed for the music

[@fmpentertainmentmedley3338]

THANK YOU RadRat iv been banging on about Illusion Flips and nobody knows what im talking about!!!! Im recommending ur channel to EVERYONE i can!!!

[@mrburns805]

I used to call them inward kickflips when I did them flat and hardflips when they went vertical

[@mervynbuttons242]

wouldn't a hardflip b like an outward kickip

[@jaywhite2306]

I always did hardflips like I was going to do a frontside flip but would stop myself from rotating 180 and they would pop not perfectly vertical but always between my legs in the same place. I had a harder time learning inward heel flips then hard flips.

[@fzgn]

I never understood the hate for inline skaters. They did some pretty crazy stuff, they were chill, their equipment never destroyed parks like BMX, and they always had better park etiquette than scooter kids. It always just seemed like a dumb prejudice with no logic behind it.

[@fzgn]

Mike Looney Punk and Hip-hop were both born in NYC 1977 out of the same economic hardships. Both are DIY genres about letting out emotions about fucked up social/economic situations. I think you would find that Inline skaters and skateboarders in the 90s had a lot more in common with eachother than either had in common with Football players or the Wrestling team. Not sure why you gotta turn two similar forms of entertainment into violently opposing forces.

[@RadRatVideo]

+Fz Gn I have a video about this topic recorded that will be finished in a couple of weeks. I think a lot of the tension came from how skateboarders developed all of our equipment and ramps and stuff over decades, then rollerbladers just suddenly adopted it as their own. I don't see any other way it could have gone down, but a lot of skaters had problems with that. And still do, it seems. I never had a problem with rollberbladers really, but I never respected it nearly as much as skating.

[@larisamafia]

Excellent video man, thank for your time! I sk8 since 87 (I'm 42) and never bother me or my friends how to call every trick. Even more simply tricks was named different like varial kick flip we call it 180 kick flip but who cares. Just sk8

[@troyithy]

I just realized after like a million times of watching this why Private Carrera's special is so weird and not a hardflip. They didn't make the trick first and slap hardflip in the name, it's a pun on a phrase Neversoft used a couple times in THPS1, "Well Hard". Officer Dick's final board graphic is called "Game Over" and is the Neversoft Eye with text that says "Well Hard" on it. Basically, her trick shouldn't be a "Well Hardflip", it should've been called a " 'Well Hard'-flip". The board still flips, and a front-foot featherflip is really hard, but none of these tricks are an actual hardflip. I hope that makes sense? reading it back to myself this paragraph makes no sense but i don't wanna delete it lol

[@lustforlow-end6022]

I always loved the vertical hard flips & fs flips. They look so graceful!

[@noisebox9529]

Thank you for this excellent history lesson. I'm young enough to have learned some tricks from your first channel, and old enough to have retired my decks some years ago. This video was a blast of nostalgia and made me want to dust off the old trucks. Teach us more!

[@RadRatVideo]

+noisebox You're very welcome - I've definitely got a lot more coming! We old guys need to get out there and keep skating while we still can.

[@tuodekab]

1:40 holy shit! i forgot about that shit. donny fuckin' barley SWITCH hardflip backside 50-50 on a waist high ledge probably close to 2 decades ago.

[@SkateSpeech]

Video games are the best and worst things to ever happen to skateboarding. I still get hard flips wrong from time to time and I attribute a lot of that to being conditioned by these games so early on and have for years but I never thought to make a video on it. You did it far better than I would have anyway. Excellent video!

[@scottplays2k]

He basically made a 10 minute video complaining about bad physics in old video games

[@c-notethelastgreatest4298]

Yea I think it was just bad physics in the game but I saw hardflips.. what was that well hardflip tho I wanna learn that

[@FattyBumbatyBlunt]

Love it, very informative and entertaining. I had no idea so many games did it wrong.

[@RadRatVideo]

+Kevin Wong It was one of my biggest pet peeves growing up. I just don't understand it.

[@Nirvezz]

Rad Rat Video simple. The developers were limited to their knowledge of skateboarding tricks personally and technologically.

[@IAmTheBestMang]

The double hardflip looks kinda like a 540 dolphin/forward flip. I like it though. Reda Hadada or Chris Chann could probably do it.

[@skadude113]

Actually really dug this video dude! The good old hard flip...the trick my friends and I would all debate over for hours in high school and at the skate park haha a trick that totally eludes me even after years of skating. I could sit and talk and break down tricks all day long haha keep being a skate nerd, nothin wrong with that!

[@notyetskeletal4809]

I never finished Grind Session. Thrasher, THPS 1,2,3,4 on PS1 and MTV...but never Grind. Great video. Combining PS1 and a trick I have been forever confused about.

[@johnd5619]

interesting. I was born in 84 and always thought the board had to be somewhat vertical for it to be a hardflip. thanks for the cool vid!

[@timboslice45]

I started skating in 1992, imo an ideal hardflip is a frontside varial kickflip....the more the board stays horizontal to the ground, and flicked with the front foot, the better.

[@TekMoliGy]

i agree but as long as it doesn't pass that vertical point to the point where it is on the shoveit side i still think its a hardflip.

[@austintucker7341]

do you mean horizontal?

[@YessC1a0]

Recently found your channel, and im super glad i did, km a massive fan of the tony hawk series and skating in general, listening to this makes me want to skate again! Thanks! Great videos!

[@RadRatVideo]

Thanks! Get out there and do it! I've also got reviews of a lot of the old skateboarding games that you might want to check out too.

[@YessC1a0]

i have checked out alot! thanks for the reply as well! keep up the good content. ps: is there anyway i can get a pc version of tony hawks 2 working?

[@RadRatVideo]

I don't know... I have the big box pc version, but I haven't attempted to install it. It's got to be possible somehow.

[@YessC1a0]

haha thats alright, thanks for the quick response friend!

[@YessC1a0]

Qskool FPV No. We weren't even talking about that, im wanting thps2 because its far better than any robomotive tony hawk game

[@shookstylez]

you are the biggest skate nerd on youtube, and i love it.

[@CHHSDrummer2007]

What I want to know is why Private Carrera's "The Well Hardflip" special trick was never brought back into the series afterwards or in THUG Pro? I liked the trick because it looked unique and I never seen a skater do this trick in real life. That and a Somi Spin as well.

[@bladenator90]

Absolutely amazing video. I enjoyed this thoroughly. Tony Hawk and you my man were the first big sources for me in skateboarding.

[@RadRatVideo]

Thanks a lot dude! Hopefully I can keep you entertained for a long time too.

[@micdonmusic]

Rad Rat Video Stevie Williams does a really great double hardflip in the credits of Transworlds The Reason.

[@Micropterus06]

link?

[@haboo6077]

What about skate 3

[@mtnmotoadv]

man I remember being a kid and never being able to understand what a hardflip was for the longest time

[@evilarmyofdeadness17]

Man back in the late 90's and early 00's I learned almost all my ticks through Tony Hawk games and the X Games/ESPN and what ever skate videos they would show. I remember getting a skateboard trick book from my schools book fair back in 99 and that had me set. As well as When they added create a trick mode I would spend hours in it slowing down the tricks to see how they were done. It actually helped a lot and I learned most of my tricks that way, Kids today just don't know how awesome the internet really is, although I wouldn't take it back for anything. Great video By the way.

[@RadRatVideo]

Thanks! Yeah, things have changed so much when we were kids. One of the ways I learned tricks back in the day was text-only trick tips on the internet. Since not a lot of people had a digital camera, they couldn't upload a picture or make a sequence or anything. You already had to know what the trick was and what it looked like before you started to learn it.

[@markw2427]

Skin of officer Dick!! I'm crying

[@DMSSS]

I just love what you've been and doing now, ty! Greetings from russia

[@RadRatVideo]

+DMSSS Thank you!

[@dalbertruiz6368]

The hardflips on the THPS games always looked more like a very vertical shove it. It was so confusing looking at photos and trying to figure out what way the board was flipping. On the other hand I learned 360flips with the game. By pausing it and looking at the still image and how their feet looked. A looooong time ago hahaha.

[@mattpowell6291]

Same. I learnt the Impossible by doing the same thing lol

[@davidunderwood4341]

This trick never confused me. The one that gets me, is the hardflip to nut sack grab. No matter how close you look, you just can't believe it just happened.

[@AmpersandFB]

Awesome video!

[@ishbon9807]

Hi, at like 1999 I was in the Island of Puerto Rico I remember I would skip class to go to this ghetto "skatepark" my friends and I built in a abandoned basketball court with ramps and double grind boxes n shit, it's soooooo funny how we all learned tricks from the ps1 Tony Hawk game because at that time either me or my friends had any access to a computer or Internet. I remember at that time I was about 10 years old and from playing Tony hawk and watching my older friends I learned how to ollie , nollie , nollie shuv it,shuv it, kickflip sex change, kick flip, 180 ollie but never learned how to hardflip only my older friends were able to, it's crazy how at that time a video game inspired us to learn skateboard tricks in Puerto Rico lol blows my mind! One of the guys I would skate with was sponsored by a skate shop and he was deaf, this was in the Pueblo of sabana grande Puerto Rico!!

[@victorarregnelle8976]

ish bon in puerto they call 3 shuvs "imposible". makes me wonder what a 360 shove would be.

[@ishbon9807]

victor diaz From what I remember a impossible was not 3 shoveits it was a trick that you do while in the kick flip position just don't flip it and let the board spin around your back foot.

[@victorarregnelle8976]

ish bon did you understand,what i meant. in Puerto Rico they call 3shuvs "impossible". I lived there for 1 year. no board spinning around back foot.

[@je-mk9qm]

ish bon z

[@jrenkiewicz5000]

I don't expect a lot of people on here had to watch Tony hawk replays to learn tricks, but I definitely did, so to see this video it made me a little nostalgic. Before internet and living in the middle of nowhere, there wasn't any Shops so all of our videos and trick tips were Tony hawk games. I even learned how to do a boardslide, Ollie and dropping in from a sports illustrated kids magazine article with Andy macdonald lol oh the days

[@lustforlow-end6022]

I was a bit miffed years ago when I first started seeing the sideways hardflips & frontside flips show up in videos... The vertical ones always looked so much more graceful. Even with the clown pants of the 90's!

[@plannine10]

front shov wit kickflip is hardflip

[@milestt]

j McGuire A+ for you

[@assfukwut]

lol this is what i imagine the the_skatenerd looks like

[@kylegohawks8604]

wow that is confusing from how you explained it. weird as it might sound I learned how to do I guess vertical hardflip back in the 90s. before front side flips. I was trying to do a front side flip and found out easier to not fully rotate my upper body. after getting a hardflip down (sorta lol) front side flips came right away

[@azzorzer]

I hate how all tony hawk fans just disliked the video when you are 100% right.

[@Speciimenn]

So how did hawk ruin it?

[@RadRatVideo]

His game fueled a lot of confusion by having weird hardflips, and inspiring other games to have weird hardflips too. That made a lot of skaters not know what the trick is and how to do it.

[@Speciimenn]

ahhh

[@dennisswearingen6246]

This has probably already been said but hardflips were done through the legs long before the Tony Hawk video games.

[@chimyshark]

sure, by the pros, but what about the kids who just bought a board starting out for the first time, no youtube.

[@skateman7884]

Well he physically didn’t ruin the trick. He just made it confusing

[@jacobkramer42]

I remember back in the day watching one of those trick tip videos with Tony Hawk, granted he was amazing on vert but it seems any style or grace for street skating is non existent even for simple tricks like kickflips and hardflip it left me asking what the hell was he thinking

[@sistaledaren]

haha wasn't Koston in that hardflip video also?

[@BillyHanning]

Yeah Koston had to do it switch though lol

[@afroman-xe8tx]

Billy Hanning some for P-Rod

[@austintucker7341]

homie, you gotta check the first couple Birdhouse videos. he definitely had some style on street

[@austintucker7341]

and he's just used to doing all that on giant vert

[@miguiprytoluk]

Don't think anyone gonna read this, but ok: I live in Brazil and we have extra layers of confusion, like the language barrier, being a poor country, and relying on people that traveled abroad to have access to foreign material. The thing is, some tricks have their "street names" and "cannon names". For example, everybody used to call the 360 flip a "kick" or "kickflip", and the real kickflip is simply called a "flip". The boardslide was called a "rockslide", and the lipslide was called "boardslide". Also Rock to Fakie was called "Rock and Roll" (but i'm not sure how the actual rock and roll was called), and some other minor examples (shove-its were varials, and varial flips were "very flips"). The thing is, the old names aren't exactly gone. I live in Porto Alegre, Luan Oliveira's hometown, and I've watched many videos of him talking with local buddies, and he calls the 360 flips "kicks", and I don't have to explain he knows what tre flips are very well, lol. The way I call tricks is very context dependent. I basically call tricks by their cannon name with my close buddies (only saying the numbers like 360, 540 in portuguese), but this can easily cause confusion in the skatepark, for example. If I meet a new skater at the park, maybe I'll say "kickão" (something like "big kick") for tre flips, and definitely say "rock" for the board slide, cause that's what people call them. So nowadays there's an unspoken rule about street culture and "being real" when you rely on the old school names, instead of the cannon ones, 'cause you may seem like a poser that learned skate through THPS instead of the streets. If you're interested, sobreskate, the biggest brazillian skate youtube channel has a video exactly about this issue, but it doesn't have english subtitles. Also, sobreskate's owner, Guilherme Abe and Luan Oliveira are personal friends, and they record videos for the channel everytime Luan comes back to Porto Alegre up to today...

[@miguiprytoluk]

oh, the video I mentioned is this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnfQhKB5dsR4ftk

[@jvcamarena8]

The combination of that background music and his voice sounds illusionally hypnotizing

[@TheGhostOfFredZeppelin]

I don't see how the hardflip is ruined at all. I think you are just overthinking it. I for example, originally thought a hardflip was like a vertical 360 rotation but then someone told me that it's not and that was that. If you hang out with skaters and not just play video games all day you'll learn things like that in no time. Everyone does them differently and that's the beauty of skateboarding, everyone has their own style and you can't decide what's right and what's wrong if they are basically the same trick. If you think that the game held back skateboarding I think you are completely wrong, and you seem to be the only one held back and hung up on the trick. Sorry if I sounded a bit snarky but, come on haha. Great video anyways!

[@bennyfairfax1]

I think it's just a fun video he made. Some people are overthinking it.

[@forrestweber691]

In the very beginning of my skating days, I thought a hardflip was half an impossible then a half kickflip rotation... how foolish :)

[@trevorlinden6573]

He click baits it. All he is doing is over analyzing a video game which tbh is still interesting. Please stop dramatizing your titles

[@ToxicKlay]

Interesting video, but I think you're taking subjectivity about the trick and trying to mold it into objectivity. A hardflip doesn't REQUIRE that the board go between your legs, however that is a stylistic aspect of performing the trick. You can get the same motion without that particular movement in your legs. And the way THPS1 animated hardflips has a lot to do with the limits of the animation rendering engine Neversoft used - in fact, many of the THPS demos that were playtested came back with graphical glitches arising from certain trick animations. In the other games though, I'm not sure what the reason would be behind the animations...

[@RadRatVideo]

+ToxicKlay No, not technically, but It makes the animation confusing. Even if the board is doing exactly what it should, the back foot would never be scooping backside. It makes it look like a pop shove it. If you can somehow scoop the board frontside and yet have both feet behind the board, that's cool, but this is a video game. You would think that they would use a perfect, ideal version of the trick. Or at least modeled after Chad Muska's. Interesting info about the graphical glitches. I didn't know about that!

[@ToxicKlay]

+Rad Rat Video I definitely agree that they should have just tried to model Muska's flip. Who knows what they were thinking during programming - maybe they thought at that point in time nobody would scrutinize it? Maybe because skateboarding then was not the universal cultural icon that it is today, though it was for sure growing at a quick pace by 1999

[@RadRatVideo]

I think so too. They were just making a game. They had no idea it would be such a big deal to so many people. And who knows how hands-on Tony Hawk was in the animation process.

[@sasukekuniski1959]

how is it a big deal? its just a dumb trick lmao

[@tyonorshapzc7tjfvb7-caz]

@@sasukekuniski1959 wtf? why do we have tricknames anyway tho? do you call a 5 0 a Manual Grind because he isnt completelly down with the tail? gosh, get some knowledge :P

[@themostdiabolicalhater5986]

Cancelling out a sex change with a 180 to do a hard flip in THPS reminds me of doing hard flips/inward heels and turning in the opposite direction of the shuv to do sex changes and disco flips in Skater XL

[@jakestockton4808]

8:38 that was me! Okay... maybe not exactly me, but that's how I learned pressure flips.

[@jaywhite2306]

Ditto... But were my hardflips wrong? Im confused. Because i always setup like i was going to do a frontside flip bet Id pop it and then resist turning 180 with it and it would go mostly vertical while flipping through my legs and then id stick it and land. I got confused when he started bagging on learning them this way. Because they came out looking NOTHING like a frontside flip where i turned with with board.

[@slavonic7907]

Damn I wish I had that grind session game right now dammit

[@LordDathka]

thus why EA Skate wins. they got it right.

[@steveachealo89]

Wins what? Its not a competition its stupid

[@LordDathka]

@@steveachealo89 I'm talking about hardflips. Did that go over your head? Skate was the only game to get hardflips right

[@CrowwreakStevenson]

Because of watching this, I actually decided to make the 180 sex change you talked about as one of my custom tricks in THUG PRO and just name it Real Hardflip

[@adamheeley285]

Rad rat got the last laugh. Way to not give up dude, your channel is awesome. I think this video speaks to older skaters. I also was used to hardflips being vertical as I was a teen when fullfill the dream came out. I always thought they were vertical.

[@shaunbose9539]

Your looking too deep into it, just skate, who cares

[@Ckypwnd]

shaun bose naw its good stuff right here

[@Nirvezz]

True. Looked way into it. Gaming wise.. the developers weren’t probably familiar with skateboarding and worked with what they could at the time. They didn’t have the technology of animating the tricks more true into graphics as it is done today.

[@xXxDurandalxXx]

Nirvezz you’d be surprised that a lot of people at neversoft were skaters

[@KennethAdamo]

this is a good about hardflip

[@jereleubanks9590]

hardflip much good look at

[@Oscar-gx2yf]

guys funny all are you

[@McBanditHope]

The only trick I ever attempted (for real) is a ollie on an at least 1 inch thick Wal-Mart board, inspired by my love for the Tony Hawk games. I eventually got frustrated and gave up. I was 11 at the time, 17 now, currently saving up for a real skateboard so I can give it another chance. This video was ace, man, really informative.

[@RadRatVideo]

+McBandit That's awesome. Get out there and have fun. I have a whole playlist of trick tips that should help get you started.

[@slipperygimp1953]

Aronl?!?! You taught me how to kickflip with those trick tips back in the day!

[@danp2941]

I hate when people get their skateboard knowledge from video games. Dude.. please stop it ... Nothing of what you said makes any sense nor has something to do with actual skateboarding.

[@noahrepp8315]

i was just thinking that

[@bradleynlaviolette]

Dan P 💯. I played those games at the same time I was learning hardflips and frontside flips. And I never connected what I was doing in the board

[@bradleynlaviolette]

With what I did on a controller

[@mylefnepple1936]

Dan P why do you hate it? Skate games can be very informational. I understood everything he said in the video. Stop trying to be a 'hip hater"

[@eddiejackson1566]

actually a double hardflip is a 360 hardflip

[@ExcalibursWish]

No a double hardflip is a hard double flip Flips twice

[@eddiejackson1566]

You just named two tricks a hard double flip flips twice and a double hard flip is a 360 hardflip

[@tysauceable]

ExcalibursWish is correct.

[@eddiejackson1566]

He literally said that a double hard flip and a hard double flip are the same

[@tysauceable]

It is the same. Hard double flip isn't the name, he was explaining how it flips.

[@supernewuser]

I had a friend who did a hardflip that looked fully vertical but it flipped the other direction, so it was more of a pressure hardflip. It looked like a hardflip but if you really paid attention you could see it flipped wrong. We always called those illusion flips but I can't remember why.

[@TheRealFaceyNeck]

I would like to see some of these "modern" hard flips. In any of The Berrics games of S.K.A.T.E., from what I can recall, either vertical or more of an "inward kickflip" style are both acceptable. Speaking of; I wish you would make a follow-up to this video. Because what I see when Song does 'the original hard flip,' that looks like a frontside inward kickflip, or a frontside inward pop shuv it if you'd rather. And so I've always thought of hard flips as being inward kickflips, but just due to the nature of the shape of the foot, they're easier to do more vertically. I'll also come out and say it; I think the vertical hard flips look the best almost all the time, especially when people are doing switch "frontside flips" that are really more like switch hard flip 180s.

[@bon12121]

Screw the dislikes. You settled a confusion for me I didn't know I had. Still skating after 12 years.

[@nollieflipcrook]

Why does this video have so many dislikes? Everything you said was spot on. I guarantee everyone that disliked this video doesn't even skate

[@troyrussell177]

I've been doing pressure flip variations since 1997 and back then we did call it a " nollie pressure hardflip " because the board did a fronside shuv it , kickflip. you put your front foot in the pocket of the nose riding nollie and the board does a frontshuv kickflip. A little later I learned the pressure flip we know today and we called it a " pressure inward heel ". Hardflips have always been front shuv kickflips to me. Some just did them more vertically...

[@reefchiefer]

cool breakdown but I didn't realise there was ever any confusion..

[@ZendelWashington]

nice vid, good research. def worth the watch despite the clickbait title.

[@hunman21]

Muska always said his favorite thing about skating is that there are no rules..

[@mattpowell6291]

Thanks for your video. I tried learning hardflips from Tony Hawk games but they were pressure flips where the board goes vertical between your legs but the board is spinning backside not frontside. I've been playing Session:Skate Sim and watched your video and realised I've been living a lie. I've never done a hardflip

[@griptape1]

Wtfffff aaronL i use to learn skateboarding from this dude from 2006-2010, i thought he quit youtube n now i found him again. Im soooo happy to see this dude again. Watching this dude in hd is so weird

[@augustgames6502]

Loved it! You're like the skateboard professor =) Please make more vids like this! Thumbs up!

[@Koshirro]

This reminds me of early days KZbin and watching tons of "hardflip" videos of skaters doing vertical pop shove-its, fs shuvs and pressure flips. We eventually started to call all these fake hardflips "KZbin Hardflips"

[@Austin-z7s]

When growing up there were always some hard flips that were almost inverted fs shovits. We would know the difference and were quick to try again. There was also that one kid that tried to pass of pressure flips as hard flips or fs flips, but it didn't take long to recognize the difference.

[@DeezNutz-qb2uf]

Aronl?? Holy shit I remember back when I first started skating you were the big cheese of youtube skate tutorials haha. Glad to see youre doing good

[@RadRatVideo]

Haha yeah it's been a while. I'm happy to be back making videos again.

[@marb1317]

so, on scale of how hard you push or modify it, basically: 1.- Shove-it 2.- Vertical Shove-it 3.- Varial Kickflips 4.- Hardflips 5.- Illusion flips 6.- 360 Hardflips 7.- impossibles

[@JanoyCresva]

Muska can do whatever the fuck he wants to do. He is a fucking living legend.

[@nachojimenez2420]

Is there a gentle flip?

[@therareplatypus7121]

I don't really remember how, but when I had started skateboarding around 2005, I knew that the Tony Hawk games got the Hard Flip wrong. I'm sure that those games are how I got into skateboarding in the first place, but I don't really remember exactly how I got into learning it. I probably just came across Rodney Mullen randomly one day and wanted to skate because of him. I was also never a fan of the vertical Hard Flips. I thought that the more horizontal a Hard Flip, the better it looked.

[@diegoipl]

15 years ago i thought it was just a vertical flip... i managed to land kind of vertical pressure flips believing they were harflips until someone told me i needed to flick the front foot.

[@pressureflipin1992]

I was doing them switch by 1997. You forgot to mention Shawn mandoli, he was doing hard flips really early on, also, Jed Walters was doing them clean as hell in 1992.

[@christianewing1113]

Interesting video, didnt even know what a hardflip was until now

[@GOODBOIN8]

I find it strange that the main issue is the verticality of the hardflip and how that's improper or out of style. Most every hardflip I've seen modern day, video parts KZbin in person whatever, are vertical but also proper. Fs shuv kickflip. So I don't get it?