How TOPGUN Changed in the 80s - Interview with the Real A-4 Pilots of TOP GUN Pt 2

In part 2 of this two part interview with the A-4 pilots that flew in the movie TOP GUN, they discuss how the school changed after filming. www.cwlemoine.com
Robert "Rat" Willard is a retired United States Navy admiral who last served as the 22nd Commander, U.S. Pacific Command from October 19, 2009 to March 9, 2012. He previously served as Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet from May 8, 2007, to September 25, 2009. Prior to that, he served as the 34th Vice Chief of Naval Operations from March 18, 2005, to April 2007. On March 9, 2012, Admiral Willard retired from the Navy after 39 years of service having flown the A-4, F-5, and F-14. On May 9, 2012, he was elected president and chief executive officer of the Institute of Nuclear Power Operations. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Willard
Lynn "Secks" Seckinger is a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel. After TOPGUN, Secks went on to fly the F/A-18 and eventually commanded MAG-42 Detachment A at Cecil Field. He also co-authored the requirements document that resulted in the F/A-18E-F Super hornet. Secks also flew the A-4 , F-5, and F-4.
Willie "Tex" Spence is a retired United States Navy lieutenant commander. After TOPGUN, Tex accepted orders to VFA-87 flying the F/A-18 aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt, followed by a stour at the Strike Fighter Weapons School Atlantic. Tex spent 27 years at American Airlines, retiring as a Captain on the Airbus 320 in 2019.
Terry "Circus" McGuire is a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel. After TOPGUN, Circus transitioned to the F/A-18 and flew it for four years. He later transitioned to the Marine Corps Reserve where he flew the F-5 with VMFT-401 for seven years. He also flew for Delta Airlines for two years and FedEx for twenty five years, retiring in 2018.
Mike "Boa" Straight is a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel. After leaving TopGun in mid-1986, Boa returned to the US Air Force's F-15 Fighter Weapons School as an instructor. He is a graduate of the prestigious Naval War College, and retired from the Air Force in 1996. Boa then enjoyed a career flying for Untied Airlines for 17 years.

[@georgiogorge]

I wish more people pushed against KZbin's trend towards short and meaningless videos. This one was great.

[@roninjedi2494]

I could sit and listen to old aviators stories for hours. I once sat and listened to a Vietnam vet who flew B-52 over there for like 5 hours. Nicest old man ever and he kept asking me if I was bored with his stories yet and I’d look at him like he was crazy and he would chuckle and move on. People like him are way I joined the Air Force and it’s led to a great 14 year career with more to come

[@jericho1-4]

I couldn't agree with you more, I was a snot nosed freshman in high school sitting on the stairs of the apartment building we lived in trying to write a history report when a small group of older gentlemen came out. One of them tapped me on the shoulder and said I spelt Dachau wrong and asked me what I was writing, those five gentleman put aside their plans sat down with me and helped me write my report. I spent hours after that listening to these men and their history from that day on, I can not begin to quantify how much they taught me, They had become the father I lost the year before. These men from various branches not only saw me off when I enlisted but were there with my mother and sister when I finished RT at MCRD P.I. Each one wrote me for the majority of my sixteen years of service, every time I came home I spent my time with my mom and these men, and looked after my mom when I deployed in 01. They got me through my 0311 stint my 0321,0323 and 0326 and going FORECON, not a day goes by I don't think about'em.

[@JasperFromMS]

Mover, you do the best interviews. Some things I captured: commitment - these guys literally took their vacation to go to work; vision - we have a shortfalls in BVR; consensus - we need USAF skill to fix our BVR problem; decisiveness - making the decision to get the USAF skill and that guy never knowing it was controversial.

[@baghdaddymike6669]

If you never do another video, these interviews are your gift to a community of aviators and aviation enthusiasts and we truly appreciate the time effort and care you put in to them. Thank you!

[@baghdaddymike6669]

BTW, Mover I was only joking. You should still do more videos. Please. Thank you.

[@davidwill1766]

Hey Mike Straight. I worked with you at the FWS in the 80s. It’s good to see that you’re doing well. I remember you to be a very talented instructor and a humble person. Take care. Dave Will.

[@TheHawkeye50317]

A fantastic series Mover, I am very glad you did this and a big thanks to all those guys that participated in this series.

[@davidsmith8997]

100% agree!

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Oh man Mover I have to give you a total thumbs up. This is been a tremendously great set of interviews.... 😮👍👍

[@Airplanefan477]

Seriously though thank you for these videos. I am thoroughly enjoying them and know others are too

[@frankcfv4643]

My copy of Spectre Rising came in yesterday, can't wait to start reading it this weekend.

[@TimothyWatson-z3f]

Thank you all for your service and risking everything to defend our country. Loved hearing your stories and respect all of you have for each other. GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND YOUR FAMILY'S. Keep em coming Mover

[@brucegreer8175]

I was around TOPGUN and knew this group and attended when they started using the F-16s. The group made great strides during this period and it marked a period of experiments in tactics and evolution in tactics and simulation. Nice review and discussion. Gruesome VF-154

[@shawn2443]

Thank you again Mover & Organ for your hard work. We ALL appreciate it. GOD Bless 🇺🇸

[@gotbordercollies]

Mover, these interviews are some of the best things that you have done. Thank You for putting in the time and effort - They were very enjoyable!

[@joemd7775]

F-16N was a Block 30 "small mouth", which actually put out about 3,000lbs less thrust than a "big mouth". The N was approx. 1000lbs lighter than a standard Block 30. This has been a great set of interviews, thanks Mover!

[@sparrowlt]

For what i can find they also had the A model radar and no gun

[@dougstitt1652]

Thank you Mover and fantastic guests .

[@quicktastic]

Fascinating and very well done Mover. Thank you.

[@Thunder_6278]

Mover, these historic discussions are priceless. From the pilots who were there. I believe you are now a TOP GUN journalist. You should receive the Pulitzer prize. A thousand thank Yous!

[@thomascaldwell6370]

Absolute legends. Thanks for this, Mover.

[@kayakutah]

I went to write up the N (VF-126) on a 10g overstress. The corporate maintenance guys asked, "did you fly through jet wash, or did it let you"? I said, "it let me". They said, "it's not an over-G'. There was a warning cut out button to silence a warning horn if you pulled up too slow (something like 150 or under for the pull up? My 70 year old brain has dumped that info). I was always pushing that. In my defense, I only had to use the MPO once! Anyway, I'd really like to know how things changed when everybody went to Fallon! I'm guessing we went to a "Red Flag" style program - which I found to be really impressive, even though they only let us use Atolls on the F-14 as bogies!

[@woolymittens]

Like all these interviews, that was a very fast 35 minutes!! These guys are fascinating. Thanks again Mover. 👍

[@johneveridge3714]

Hey ex Aggressor F5-E mech. I have been with AA for 39 years since. So I met a friend of yours last week He was a 15 driver and flew with you at Tyndall. Sorry completely forgot his name. He had nothing but bloody nice things to say about you. Airbus Driver. Tell him we won the fight on his R1 window.

[@JimmyD_C172]

Awesome series Mover! Thanks for putting these out.

[@uiyhjlfsawrre]

Another great episode of this series. Thank you so much for recording this piece of history. It's great to listen to theses guys talking and swapping memories.

[@robertsguitarsandgear]

What a great discussion, thanks to all of you for your service and your willingness to discuss it.

[@sparrowlt]

Thanks Mover and Organ .. i really enjoyed the lot of theese interviews.. couldnt ask more on that.

[@gavinbuttenhoff2912]

This is one of the best interview roundtables I've had the pleasure of watching! Everyone is so well spoken. Excellent.

[@jericho1-4]

@C.W. Lemoine When I hear the term quality content this right here is what I think fits the bill, your interviews are laid back and filled with knowledge from the individuals perspective of a wide range of subjects. You bring this to all your content that I've watched so far and while what I've seen is a fraction of what you have posted it is all very informative.

[@shannono6051]

Well done Mover! More important than just TopGun, there are a lot of leadership lessons in these interviews. Thank you for your hard work

[@paulshrimplin4032]

I wish my life could have gone that way, but being British and being born dyslexic l wish that l could have been a fighter pilot, but never had the chance to reach those heights, now 61, wish l could relive my life being a fighter pilot. put my hand on my heart, to all of those guys and girls who get through to do their dream job as fighter pilots, and l thank you for what you have achieved to keep our freedom, but l did 10 years in the forces British Army in the Coldstream Guards which was hard and also on active duty around the world. I look forward to your next video Mover

[@VoluptuousB]

I really appreciate hearing these guys stories! Gives me a small look into their world. Wish I joined 15 years ago (sigh). That’s alright, the day I get my private pilot license will be a great accomplishment for me.

[@FatherExo]

Got sent to Fallon a few times, mainly for those naval training exercises that Rat was referring to, as well as once for NAWDC, obviously training Marines in 35s is a bit different today, and getting to see how combat and training carried out in that realm was extremely eye opening for me as a maintainer, also seeing what the rest of the world doesn’t see as far as tactics are carried out was incredible

[@Scotts_Status]

Amazing interview with these gentleman! Thank you.

[@tedm.3961]

It's so awesome to hear the facts directly from those that flew that era of TopGun. Thanks Mover as always; these interviews will preserve important history for all to appreciate and learn from.

[@DougThacker]

The absolute best Top Gun pilot interviews I have seen! Great job Mover!

[@magooski]

Awesome interview!

[@OnTheRoad2Recovery]

Good stuff. I remember being a kid and getting my Top Gun patch at NAS Pensacola (Museum- The best btw)...great stuff..thanks, Mover.

[@joseph.lopresti]

Mover - thanks for this bringing us this entertaining forum. And what better way to do it than to assemble the 1985 Topgun Bros together again for an engaging roundtable.

[@garyshelly6555]

This has been an awesome series sir thank you very much

[@MZ-bl6wg]

Awesome video/interview you did here.what an absolute group of Legends!!! Thankyou for bringing together this important part of history and all of these Legends and key pioneers! I’m sure it took a TON of work to coordinate this and get everyone together! Great work! I’ve been plugging your channel every chance I get in the comments of other videos and hope it’s getting more subs your way.

[@1hornet1]

Thanks again Mover. This was awesome as well!

[@scottr9900]

Again, a fantastic job. Need to get all those fellas together in a symposium and do a long form interview.

[@christopherdowney6055]

This was absolute GOLD!

[@juliusnyny]

Thanks Mover! I'm grinning ear to ear with these interviews. I'd wanted to be a naval aviator even before the movie came out but I couldn't get the recruiter to sign off on a gaurantee that I'd get OCS so I wouldn't sign as I'd already completed college. After the movie came out I went back to the recruiter but by that time, they said I was pushing the age cutoff limit. Got my private license but I sure hate I didn't get a chance at flying on carriers.

[@garybaldwin1061]

This was very cool!

[@perspicator5779]

So great to hear the evolution of air war cultural change and adaptation as the mission is no doubt in constant flux. Thank God for all you heroes and patriots to our nation! Thanks all for your service! Great job Mover!

[@donszabo7558]

Not much to say more than Wow! That was great.

[@richieismyhero]

Mover this was so good, thanks to everyone

[@ragingpotato]

VC-12 (now VFC-12) was the East Coast Adversary Squadron at NAS Oceana when the movie came out. It was my father's squadron and he was so proud to have me see a movie about the kind of flying his squadron did, obviously at a different level.

[@TheDagger17]

Ive been watching your videos for a while now... and i was curious. you have flown both the F18 and the F16... what cockpit did you prefer? aircraft capabilities aside...

[@georgewakeman1830]

Thank you Mover.

[@silconous]

I know Hanger 2 at Miramar at least in the 90's where VMFA-134 was had showers and a locker room, pilots never used it but the maintainers did.

[@lockheedskunkworks5687]

Thanks, Mover 🇺🇸

[@sckl4635]

I was just wondering if you would do a reaction to the Sabaton music video No Bullets Fly. I just want to see what you think about the lyrics and if you could see anything happening like that today. I'm a Ex British Paratrooper and love you're videos by the way.

[@petromarc]

I remember reading a story about someone in a slick F-16N down low, head outside, in full blower, started feeling heat from the canopy, then saw distortions in the canopy, looked inside, and had already passed through 800 knots and was still pulling. I can't remember the source though. Maybe an old Airpower Magazine.

[@edwardculbert9563]

With all your issues on pressurization, I humbly submit you do the Liam Neeson classic non-stop. Someone actually shoots a windo and no one gets sucked out….until there is fear of crashing someone does of course- but it’s almost like Hollywood tried… figured you’d appreciate it C. W.

[@gslightfoot1105]

Mover I'm new to your channel and I'm sure you've been asked these questions. Is the F22 a plane you've flown and if not is it a bucket list plane for you to fly? I'm a Canadian is it true that American pilots really respect Canadian pilots even though I believe our F18s are outdated? And do you agree Canada should have got the contract for Fat Amy or should have we gone with the newest F18s?

[@johnferguson1455]

Well done

[@nathanfisher1826]

Thank you

[@1duncantalks659]

you should review the film Firefox is a 1982 American action techno-thriller film produced, directed by, and starring Clint Eastwood. It is based on the 1977 novel of the same name by Craig Thomas. The film was set in Russia but had Cold War considerations

[@johnh5444]

Awesome!!!!!!

[@michaelrunnels7660]

I was very interested in the discussion about the fact that Boa brought his experience with BVR to the Top Gun instructor team. They said that the Top Gun team progressed a lot in BVR training because of Boa's input. I do have a question about what happened 5 years later in Desert Storm when F-14s were pretty much incapable of performing the air superiority mission because of their lack of BVR ID capability. I believe that the F-18 had BVR ID capability. Did the F-14 Top Gun BVR training slip through the cracks? It appears that in 1991 F-14s were incapable of BVR engagements and as a result got no chance for any BVR fighter engagements. Am I wrong?

[@organhammonds]

Hi, Michael! Organ here…I’ll take a shot at this. In our discussion we were talking more about going from a rear quarter missile mindset (Vietnam) to an all-aspect threat…as well as tactics for offensive AND defensive engagements against similarly equipped, all-aspect capable enemy aircraft. As for BVR ID capability, the F-14 was porely equipped. When I first started flying the F-14 in 1979, we really had no BVR ID capability. My first Squadron (VF-2), as well as other F-14 Squadrons, actually “in-house” purchased and mounted rifle scopes on the glare shield right in front of the pilot, centered on the HUD borescope to allow us longer ID’s. You can imagine flying the F-14 on a high speed intercept trying to maintain the locked Bogey (Diamond on the HUD) on the borescope and looking through the rifle scope at the same time. To my amazement, we got fairly good at it, and it did increase our ID range. Today’s Aircraft have far more capable onboard BVR ID capability. The $$$ was never put into the F-14 the way it could have been once we got the F-18. With VID/EID/positive ID ROE…which we almost always live with, the F-14 would not have been the best platform for BVR IDs, and thus not “in the game” in such an arena. Hope that helps answer your question.

[@AA-xo9uw]

At the time the Tomcat had substandard IFF capability - they could interrogate friendlies but not the Iraqis - and since the zoomies were generating the ATOs that meant that the F-14 squadrons were left out of almost all air-to-air engagements with the exception of the Mi-8 shoot down on 6 February. Comms issues weren't limited to NAVAIR. Battle plans, etc. had to be flown out to the boats on a daily basis due to inability to receive that information electronically.

[@michaelrunnels7660]

@@AA-xo9uw F-15s have had BVR ID capabilities since they first came out in the 1970s. This is NOT IFF interrogations. This is identifying every known aircraft in the world by type and model at over 100 nautical miles by analyzing the characteristics of the radar return. This was possible by running the radar return through a computer to determine the aircraft type and model number. In modern day air to air fighters this is a fundamental capability. As I've said the Air Force has had this for 50 years. Does the U.S. Navy have it at all? I figured that this was the capability that Boa made known to the Top Gun Cadre in 1985. Apparently not because the Navy didn't have this capability 5 years later in Desert Storm.

[@michaelrunnels7660]

@@organhammonds Yes it does. My back round is Air Force GCI and I was involved with a number of large Force exercises with F-14s. It took me a while to realize that the F-14 didn't have electronic ID, other than IFF. Your description of using telescopes mounted on the consoles is something the F-15 community at FWS started doing at Nellis in 1978 when the range ROE required visual ID. They called it "Eagle Eye". I consider this to be in the VID category, along with the Tomcat camera system. At the time the capability of fighters to electronically ID all aircraft at the full range of their radar was not known to the public. In Desert Storm if a fighter could not EID at 50+ miles using on board systems, it had to rely on GCI ID. With literally almost a thousand aircraft in the sky over Iraq at one time, E-2C Hawkeye and Navy ships could not keep up with ID demands from Tomcats. Those were the assets that F-14s were primarily in contact with. The integration of U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force assets did not happen to any degree that was effective. Since the Air Force pretty much ran the air show in Desert Storm, the Navy, particularly the F-14s, were left out in the cold, frustrated and aggravated that they weren't a full team member. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with any point.

[@265justy]

Taking the Viper to 10Gs.... 😊 That's a raw ass dogfighting machine.. Go home Eagle and Hornet.... 😅

[@digitalvipnews]

Are you still a pilot for the Airlines or did you stop ? What is great school for ground school?

[@alexv5261]

What a life!

[@franklinosis9495]

Need a breakdown: The Brink

[@tomr5238]

The recently proposed budget from the Congressional Budget Office includes some drastic changes in benefits for our Veterans. These proposed changes are quite alarming and will have a significant effect on the livelihood of many Veterans.

[@daledassel5658]

Thats exactly how inter service cooperation should always work. Its all about the United States and whats best for our nations interests.

[@tuomokoo7014]

Could you watch and comment the 2019 RIAT FAF F-18 show?

[@hollyobrien6963]

Really enjoyed this! So interesting I ❤Organ

[@minhazu]

Want to know the full story of Boa's canopy loss. Hair raising experience.

[@DavE-FM545]

...So to speak...👍🇺🇸 ...Says an AirForce guy. 😆

[@PeteVA-212]

Mover, BZ!

[@Blackmoon9u9]

Expandables

[@super-super-]

Hey Mover, can you please ruin the movie Firefox (1982)? Clint Eastwood (aggressor squadron) goes to steal a Soviet prototype fighter.

[@MZ-bl6wg]

@cw LeMoine would be cool to hear your breakdown of video of nato intercept of a SU-35 by 2 F-16’s kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2GrqGaYjMSAfK8 Be cool to hear what the missiles are on thr f16’s , what the onboard video shows the pilots doing and what they were doing during intercept flying by around the SU. A LOT of these recent intercepts and unsafe maneuvers by Russians. I saw the 2 pilots recieved awards for “taking down a US drone” video of the award ceremony . Things are getting spooky with these intercepts and Russia getting balsy . That B52 getting bumped scarily as that SU head butt it. Love to hear your opinion.

[@Airplanefan477]

First🎉

[@dobbygee5431]

Just saw your twin at Frankfurt Airport… not kidding