How Treyarch Can FIX the Zombies Perk System!

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

Oh man I still remember doing the tombstone trick to get almost all perks in BO2. Having 4 perks max feels so archaic nowadays.

[@ILoveGaming192]

What tombstone trick?

[@vdxii8016]

@@ILoveGaming192You get three perks then get tombstone, then you fully bleed out, and when you come back to life, buy the other perks you didn’t have then get your tombstone, and you have all the perks

[@ILoveGaming192]

@@vdxii8016 aight thanks for telling man

[@jakesnussbuster3565]

​@@vdxii8016totally useless

[@sncaterd]

@@vdxii8016 But don't forget to also purchase tombstone again, otherwise you won't have it

[@carlosbrown3068]

5:03 moon on bo1 was the first to implement being able to remove perks. It worked by getting the hacker on moon, then go up to a perk machine. You take out the hacker and hack the machine, it removes the perk of the corresponding machine along with the money you spent

[@Xpertfusion]

Yeah, I forgot about the Moon thing

[@dalberttran8134]

Agreed 5 perk limit is just right you dont feel too overpowered ,to the point where you feel like you're forced to always run the same 4 perks like Quick Revive, Jugg, Speed cola, Double tap, which leave the last perk slot to be a floater like some might run stamin up, mule kick, or electric cherry

[@Rabi2in]

Speed Cola and Double Tap aren't necessities, QR is only forced in Solo

[@BOATIE141]

@@Rabi2inspeed is a necessity, I stand by Speed Cola supremacy

[@Glue_Eater06]

​​@@Rabi2init depends on the weapons tbh, if you can slap some fast mags on then it's less needed, but if you can't then it's more needed, but even then it matters more depending on what weapon specifically you're using, if it's a gun that reloads one round at a time, like the Spas-12 in all the games it's in or especially the StreetSweeper in Cold War, or a weapon that just reloads slow like an LMG or some Sniper Rifles

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

i think5/6 perks with the option to refund perks could go a long way. Like deadshot is great with a sniper/marksman rifle but is useless on a shotgun. Same with phd on explosive weapons vs. non explosives

[@themelancholia]

@@Rabi2in Doing double dmg and extra fire rate with one single perk is absurd. A perk giving extra health is absurd. A PERK being tied to self-revives is absurd. Reload speed being tied to a perk is absurd. Nothing fun about any of those perks. My personal favs are Death Perception, Timeslip, Zombshell, Winter's Wail.

[@BOATIE141]

Having Easter egg obtainable perks is the most memorable and fun ways to get more than the limit, I remember doing the tramplesteam camping strat on Die Rise and getting that free perk made me feel like I just discovered a new element and I feel that was the best way of having you feel rewarded for doing something out of the ordinary but not too complicated

[@KillNichMich]

That’s true, every map should have Easter eggs to get all perks!

[@grantabernathy3496]

Treyarch had a huge missed opportunity on die maschine because of the free jug Easter egg. If there was a perk limit of 6, players would have to choose if they wanted to risk it and try to get a 7th perk by not buying jug and then doing the egg later in the game when they get 6 perks or just playing it safe and only using 6 perks

[@cougarpounce3023]

I think a good compromise for the wunderfizz in cold war for BO6 would be to make it so that only the perks that aren’t on the map are in the wunderfizz like in BO3 on some maps. Solving the problem of making perk machines useless

[@defaultdan7923]

that would actually be pretty cool ngl

[@TomIsQuestionable]

Having it be random again, scale in price of how many perks you have -1000 (if perk price scaling exists like in Cold War), and can roll any perk you don’t have would be perfect. It means you have the choice to go to the perks you want especially if you need some instant survivability, or better players can save points by randomly rolling for their perks without the guarantee of getting something that will keep you alive. Since it would have to roll like old wunderfizz, going down would feel more dangerous as you have to survive rolling for perks over a long period of time rather than hitting interact and spamming on every perk icon.

[@Deathwarrior115]

If perk limit returns then EVERY and i mean EVERY map should have an origins style side quest that gives you perk slots .

[@randompillow5146]

Over time I realize just how ridiculous the Cold War Wunderfizz machine is. I think at the very least, the perks should cost more if you use it instead of the individual perk machines. That way there’s an incentive to use the individual perk machines, and Wunderfizz becomes more of a late game bonus once you have a ton of points and the increased price doesn’t matter.

[@rxssum]

No, the price goes up each time you buy a perk, therefore in the later rounds, if you mess up and go down, you will then have to spend almost all ur money to get ur perks back. Its about like 30000-50000 to get all perks back and if ur not careful with it and end up downing again immediately after purchasing all perks, then its pretty much over for you

[@bobthebuilder9509]

The new Wunderfizz machine from CW makes a lot more sense in *gulp* Modern Warfare Zombies. It’s a massive map, and the Wunderfizz is only located in Tier 3, where zombies are at their strongest outside the Dark Aether and you can get messed up bad if you take too long. Of course, MWZ’s got its own disaster going on, but I think its handling of the Wunderfizz was well done.

[@iLoveMiIfs]

It’s just lazy like everything in cw is made to be easier and have no depth like u going down and having to go to each perk machine that’s ur fault for going down now u have to risk ur run going back now u just run to one machine and get yall ur perks back with ether shroud oh and u can buy infinite quick revives see wat i mean they just make everything ez and I think that’s why ppl like it

[@rxssum]

@iLoveMiIfs how is buying infinite self revives make it easier? If your going down in the first place, you must suck then, that's why there's infinite self revives because people suck at the game 🤣 only makes it very slightly easier. Most players won't even be able to get another self revive.

[@iLoveMiIfs]

@@rxssum my guyyyy 🤦‍♂️ that’s a crazy statement saying that being able to have infinite revives makes the game slightly easier.. on top of that u can just pop aether shroud to get to the crafting table equipment does infinite damage plus u have decoys to help u get ur revive back it makes the overall game easier u don’t have to worry about dieing and the game ending ofc ur gonna go down on high rounds even the best players go down but being able to constantly buy revives plusss all the stuff that helps u out I mean come on u don’t even need to worry about ammo in cw ppl don’t talk about this but literally never have to worry about ammo which is cool but it makes the game to ez bc u get ammo drops and can buy ammo another thing that makes the game ez the zombies have a cap which is a good thing kinda I think it should be a higher cap tho cw just gives u everything without having to work for it it would be a diff story if u had to work to be able to maybe have 10 revives instead of 3 or like a ee that gave u all the perks or one that allowed u to buy infinite ammo like bo4 did in dead of the night

[@truetrepid2267]

The gobble gum system at 19:00 is actually a brilliant idea

[@Massivemachine440]

If we ignore the cod points and limitless buying of gobblegums from Black ops 3, the Newton's cookbook system was actually really good and I hope they bring that back. This especially makes sense since they are making the gobblegums the straight up currency that you get from playing.

[@thelawlessone666]

Perma perks were one of the stupidest things cod has added. It was so inconsistent. Why wouldn’t they just let you buy the perk? Cold War has the best system. No limit, yet if you go down you need a fortune to buy them all back

[@beefynfn]

L take because the Cold War system breaks game progression, I play offline and can't upgrade any of the perks, the game is actually hard, I can barely get to round 30, in Bo3 I can easily get to round 50+ because the perks aren't nerfed without upgrades The best system is in IW Also perma perks are cool because you don't need them but if you know about them and use them they make the game easier and more fun

[@AdamantWind2071]

Tbh I didn't really like perma perks but there should be a perk limit. Maybe instead of perma perks, there could be some sort of side quest on one map to get 1 extra perk slot or something

[@BOATIE141]

Perma perks were never supposed to be a consistent system, it was a fun little Easter Egg that would last for a couple of games. Plus I think they were unfinished by BO2’s release and were never expanded on

[@EclipseEuclid]

​@@AdamantWind2071 most bo3 and bo2 maps have that

[@jesseashton6163]

@@beefynfnwhy are u playing offline if ur watching youtube

[@blacklight683]

I love how the og 4 were all consistent, Double tab: *double* firerate(->damage in the 2nd virson) Juger-nog: *double* health Speedcola: *double* reload speed(or *half* reload time) Quick revive: *double*revive speed(or *half* revive time) I wish all perks kept it like this

[@sonicprime1597]

Here’s something cool about the perk system in Cold War, not many people know this because, not many people play this game offline like I do. So when you buy a perk from the perk machine, it gives you the best version of it, you know the fifth tire. But if you buy that same perk from the der wonder fizz it gives you the worst version of that perk, the one without any upgrades.

[@curpide]

I always wanted 5 perks since it was a must for QR in solo, but the idea of still being able to upgrade them while in game through challenges is honestly a great idea and it gives incentive to play longer and more often.

[@gameuinpenguin]

Just have a perk limit by default. Then, have a way to break the limit. Special quests to unlock more spots just for that match, or maybe turn up the number of perks in custum mutations before the match.

[@bluegamer8917]

I had the same feeling after doing the perkaholic EE in forsaken because I already had most of the perks, a perk limit makes getting extra perks badass especially if it’s a perk you wanted, with no perk limit it’s just like cool that’s one less perk I don’t have to buy

[@braydonbetts]

I think unlocking wonderfizz is a great idea but the location on mauer der toten is a good location. But i agree with everything besides the perk limit.

[@jamesperrott1]

THANK YOU for being the first ever other person ive seen realise why the perk limit is a GOOD THING I have a very easy solution to the "crutch perk" thing, very simply, Jugg has its own permanent perk slot, separate from your 4 main perks. As well as quick revive ONLY in solo. They can always be bought and dont count towards your usual 4 perk limit. So you can go like, Jugg + QR in solo, then choose your build like usual for the remaining four, and ofc have free perk easte eggs on every map. This solves everything IMO. And also the modifyer system could come over from bo4 and always apply to your fourth perk (so no jugg or solo QR modifyer, QRs modifyer should be something to do with reviving teammates so it isnt something you could still want even on solo)

[@themelancholia]

Or you could just balance the game and make earlier rounds more chaotic instead of relying on a single perk to give health.

[@Nazrat84]

20:26 There are no such thing as "Crutch Perks" in Classic Zombies. If you had to work your way to get to Juggernog, which was usually the hardest one to get in most maps, that's not a crutch, you're *_supposed_* to get that. If a perk is necessary for progression as it directly upgrades your core ability of shooting, taking hits and reloading, opting not to get that is a handicap. The "Crutch Perk" exists exclusively in multiplayer with infamously poor perk balancing back in the day, and is where the term comes from.

[@defaultdan7923]

i kinda disagree. what is your definition of crutch perk? i believe many would define it as a perk that is essentially a necessity, or a perk that you are basically handicapping yourself by not buying, which includes jugg most prominently but also things like double tap, speed cola, and quick revive in solo

[@Nazrat84]

@@defaultdan7923 If it's necessary, it's not a crutch, that's by design, thus why the perks are placed according to their strength (if the spawns aren't random, of course, that's a whole other topic though). Crutch perks as a term come from the PvP MP mode. In multiplayer there were perks that weren't designed to be necessary, but ended up becoming that way as they didn't have the means to change perk slots, nor ever worked fast enough to balance perks post-launch outside of extreme cases. This ultimate negatively effect match variety as people would default to certain perks. In Zombies, this does not happen because you are always supposed to grab the main four as your priority, the other perks end up being accessory but were never as strong as the main four.

[@flamingscar5263]

@@Nazrat84 a crutch by definition is something that is near mandatory to play the game, if not using it makes it much more difficult, thats a crutch, what your describing is a game play feature that you have no choice in using, if we just spawned with Jug level health and the perk didn't exsit, well then yea, that means the game is designed around having that much health and having that much health isn't a crutch, its just how the game is desgined, but Jug is optional, you could decide not to buy it but doing so makes the game MUCH harder, that is by definition a crutch, just like how someone who needs crutches to walk could technically learn to walk without them, but they would have a hard time doing so also wtf are you talking about with perk locations? Jug is like never in a hard spot on most maps, like maybe 2 examples I can think of would be Der Riese and Kino maybe, but on most maps its easy, lets take one at random, Gorod Krovi, Jug is literally a couple inches next to a door you'd be using anyways

[@Nazrat84]

@@flamingscar5263 If it's a necessary upgrade, which Juggernog, Quick Revive (in solo) and Speed Cola is, then it's not a crutch. You're merely supposed to grab them as their placement in the map is indicative of the necessity to do so. The truly optional non-upgrade perks are usually out of the way or in inconspicuous locations because they are not necessary. Crutch only applies to MP as you have more immediate choices to make with your loadouts, but the choices are arbitrary as the older games didn't have any balancing passes in place to accommodate the disconnect between the player's power set and the mechanics in the games themselves. In Zombies, you can opt not to get Juggernog because "I want to make this match more challenging on purpose" but you are, ultimately, steered in the direction to get it regardless in the map's progression itself. That's very deliberate. In MP of BO2, this didn't apply. You had many more options in your perk choices, many of them being very strong, but due to the Pick 10 system and the perk balancing, the game can be nigh-unplayable without Toughness. This wasn't supposed to happen, it ultimately happened due to the lack of balance passes and the player's dominant strategy kicking in.

[@Rabi2in]

@@Nazrat84 Speed Cola is only necessary on LMGs

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

I agree with having a perk limit and having a challenge to get more perk slots, as its a nice middleground between the classic cods and CW's "no perk slots" system. However, idk if I agree with getting rid of CW's meta-progression with perk upgrades. There's something satisfying about slowly upgrading your perks as you play and getting better perks as time goes on. I think a nice compromise would be maybe bringing back the perma perk system from BO2, and having that be the upgrades for your perks. That way you can have some of that power progression between games, but you're still required todo something in a given game to unlock it; if you really wanna mimick bo2, you could even make it so that certain mechanics could make you lose the perma perk so that you don't have the upgrade permantly. speaking of perma perks, they're also a great alternative to dealing with the perk limit/crutch perk issue, as you could use a perma perk to bypass the traditional 4 perk slots. Having the phd perma perk from buried is a great example of this

[@Xpertfusion]

I get the feeling of slowly upgrading your player overtime being satisfying, but in my opinion, they already have that with other things in the game and I don't think it should apply to almost everything (we already have weapon attachments, gobblegums will be in BO6, etc.) I feel like when playing a game that resets its difficulty every time you play, your player should also reset their power (in most cases, not everything of course). I also hated how they were completely permanent, like there was no way to use the weaker versions of the perks after upgrading them. And at least for me, I was able to fully upgrade all perks after like a week of playing the game (until they added more tiers of course). Not much of a "slow" grind in my opinion. I think the best way they could do it is honestly just having a gobblegum that immediately gives you an upgraded version of a perk. So the "slowly upgrading" aspect applies to grinding free-to-earn gobblegums, and then using them (limited-uses) whenever you want the perk upgrade right away as opposed to trying to earn it in-game.

[@Bizarrebirchdoesgame]

Cold War is way too overpowered. I think that IW had the best system. It allowed you to get the main 4 perks and still have a slot for an additional perk like blue bolts.

[@User-be5yj]

Allow ranking up in zombies to give you in game rewards. Like an extra perk slot for max prestige. Or extra starter ammo for prestiging to level 1. Things that feel rewarding for grinding the ranking system. Or a an extra frag during spawn, or a free monkey bomb at spawn, or the first magazine to shoot ray gun rays at spawn, fun things that don’t break the game but could be cool and useful while reaching max prestige.

[@diegoguerrero9438]

Heres a crazy thought, feel free to bash me if it is garbage. What if the Wonderfizz Machine made a return, with its randomized function, but now with uprgaded perks? The cost would be high (like 10K per hit), but you would get a SUPER amped perk at random. For more balance you could even increase the cost of each hit depending on how many amped perks you have, similar to the Gobble Gums.

[@bulldogboy2529]

Random comment, but the fun thing about Treyarch zombies was the arcady gameplay and cartoonish characters while balancing realism and stakes. Today's cod zombies games kind of lack that.

[@ChampurradoPapi]

you should get an extra perk slot every 10 rounds. On round 10, 20, 30, etc.

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

not a bad idea but if def needs to be higher than that. 8 perks by round 40 is crazy. I'd say maybe every 15 or 20 rounds

[@Nazrat84]

​@@epicgamerzfail4575 That's incredibly stingy and isn't healthy to a player's forward momentum. A slot for 10 rounds is fair/balanced.

[@jakesnussbuster3565]

​​@@Nazrat84not in the modern zombies formula it isn't. Round 40 takes barely 35 minutes

[@kylejones354]

Jugs upgrade challenge could be to not get hit by zombies for a certain amount of time whilst close to zombies

[@spencerdenney1573]

I honestly prefer the old way perks were done in both BO2 and BO3. But I do think a cool way of doing the perks would 1.either have the perk limit be half of how ever many perks there are in that specific map. Or 2. Have unlimited perks, but after the first 4 or 5 perks have them begin to cost more for each additional perk.

[@dudeplayingroblox]

I loved the old system with “crutch perks” and perk limits as it clearly outlined early game objectives, creating a clear sense of progression during each game. Each subsequent perk improved your gameplay by a distinct and substantial amount. Having these perks would literally be the difference of life or death in sticky situations (jug, widows wine, electric cherry) or significantly helped speed up the pace of the game. (Stamin up, speed cola, double tap) Nothing quite matches the emotional experience of buying your first jug after being so vulnerable in the early rounds. It’s like you proved your foundational skills and are thus reward with an insurance for moments of unlucky slip ups that might happen in the game. Furthermore, having to acquire certain perks meant that exploring the map and trying to figure out optimal routes to each machines felt rewarding. I think the key thing that made perks feel so effective in the early black ops was the CONTRAST of experience it created. When you lost the perks it felt devastating, and you’re thrown into a unique challenging experience of scrambling to reobtain perks under varying circumstances (were there mini bosses in the way? Were you low on ammo? Did you happen to down at the farthest point from jug on the map? Did you down in a narrow hallway with a big train of zombies waiting for you?) The combination of high highs and low lows are what gave cod zombies its charm. That’s what stimulates people - being able to dig yourself out of a hard situations with grit, discipline, cleverness, and strategy. I feel that the newer cod zombies tries to flatten the dips too much in order to make zombies accessible, but in doing so dulls the peaks of the experience.

[@joechapman358]

I feel like it would be really cool if there was some sort of buff you get if you reach the perk limit without buying juggernog. Like if the perk limit is 4 and you have bought 4 perks besides jug, you get some hidden buff that is balanced out by being easier to down. It could even be a little health boost, just something to raise the stakes or create a risk/reward strategy. They could even do this risk reward system with other perks.

[@dexcfw1337]

agreed 100% i hope the devs see this video

[@saadalharbi5810]

5:05 Correction, Moon was the first map in cod zombies that allows you to remove perks with the hacker device.

[@Xpertfusion]

Yeah, forgot about the hacker and Moon. But I guess that wasn't like a full-game mechanic, just a singular map mechanic.

[@doubleupload5620]

IW where you can get rid of perks, increase the limit to 5-6, bring back bo2 perma perks or bo3 masks, but make it clear how to get them, and have ways to get one free perk or multiple would be perfect. This depends on how many perks are in the game but there should be at least 10

[@alter6243]

In my opinion, the perfect option would be to combine the best aspects from BO4 and onward. Have upgradable perks that you can upgrade in game like Vanguard. Instead of making the upgraded perks just a stronger version of the effect, use something like the modifier system from BO4. However, you can only have 2 upgraded perks at a time but you can exchange what perks you want upgraded at the Wunderfizz. Perk limit would be determined upon the perk total, but preferably a 5 perk limit at the most. One problem zombies has always had from the beginning is overcorrecting things. They should focus on perfecting a modern perk system using what has worked in the games from this era rather than going back to try and recreate a perk system that was already perfected 9 years ago.

[@TomIsQuestionable]

Perk limit should exist with the game showing you your perk slots with the outline of a perk for each one you have. Surviving a certain number of rounds without going down while all perk slots are full should give you a bonus perk slot, with different maps having ways to acquire free perks and perk slots (like free double tap challenge and golden shovel perk bottles in origins).

[@user-ox6id5zl8i]

A lot of these infinity ward or sledge hammer games get crap but their perk system makes me want to play them more

[@traumatized_otaku]

Really don’t understand why we didn’t just add a perk slot after every new game. If new perks are being released but the perk slots stay at 4, then yeah, people will gravitate towards the 4 classics because they are staples that make sense to grab. Jugg for health, speed for fast hands, quick for literally a second life, and dub tap is a damage boost. The classics are crazy useful so those will always be used.

[@computerwsmallscreen2709]

The OG perk system is built upon the four perks restrictions throughout the iterations of maps with different placements and effects. Meanwhile more mechanisms were being added, such as varients of the power switch or just the perk limit etc., which could be confounded for those who are just looking to shoot zombies after many iterations of maps. The BO4 perk system is built around the idea of custom map mutations and it's also trying to break down the staple four perks by incorporating those perks into the players (200 base HP, Self-revives/ Specialists, multiple PaPs, Speed bonus perk). While this perk system grants the players more power to explore the map, it also takes away some of the player progression experience. The whole designs of CWZ are designed around attracting newcomers, so that its perk system is also more accessible than previous titles. The same goes for the VGZ designs with less varieties as Treyarch was barely squeezing another zombies mode soon after CW. I think that the complexity of the designs of each zombies mode will decide how much players, veterans or newcomers, are willing to keep on playing this mode, and how much ATVI is willing to continue supporting this mode based on its performance. This is a conundrum for Treyarch to resolve.

[@BritCrumpet]

The way I would handle this is to start the game with a perk limit of 2 and have perk slot powerups drop from regular zombies once every 5-7 rounds or so. That way you’re still building up to being overpowered but the order you buy perks is something you have to seriously consider in the early game. I would also include something similar to vanguard’s perk upgrade system. Where you can buy a single upgrade tier for each perk, but this takes up an additional perk slot. Forcing you to decide between having more perks or minmaxing with a smaller amount of perks.

[@tornadotaylor8956]

I actually liked the cold war version of perks excluding the upgrade system, so it costs the same for every player no matter what people prefer, and it takes quite a bit of money to get all the perks so its only really late game where you have everything, especially alongside the weapon upgrade system it costs so much to max everything out (and the weapons are arguably more important than most perks) that most wont even get them all in a lot of games

[@vgpjuno2608]

Imo cold war's wonderfizz should be the reward for completing eastereggs but have the base wonderfizz availible until then. And i feel like for when u down u should lose all perks unless u go back to the machine and pay for perk insurence for 3 times the price but thr insurence should use a slot.

[@zealousdemon279]

my personal issue with Jug being behind some kind of boss is with a map like Mob its on the way no matter what: you're not just there for Jug, you're there for the plane part, the dog, the shield, the gondola, etc so it all feels connected and useful to go to. If you wanted to do that Jug would need to not be the sole focus of the room otherwise youll have a Blood problem where it feels so useless to go back to the area once you've left

[@zealousdemon279]

adding onto this for the perk limit: i prefer no limit. For one reason: it adds more progression. Pack a punch in cold war is an investment same for perks, so you have to make a choice: upgrade my weapon, or get more perks, and it creates more interesting depth compared to get four perks then pack

[@bituminouscole]

Something I also liked about Zetsibou no Shima is that widows wine was free when you killed the spider boss and it wasn't a perk machine, it was the puddle of spider juice or whatever it actually was. It made it so you weren't just buying a soda from a magical soda machine like normal perks, and it actually put some story behind you upgrading your player. I think juggernog for example should be really hard to get like you said, but perhaps instead of just doing all of that to access the perk machine, you could have it be some story related method of improving your character, and then just represent it through the perk icon, but have it be something cool. Nothing against perks, but story is a huge part of zombies from WaW through Bo4 with the Aether story, and IW's story as well, linking everything together, and you could do a lot more with that within each map with the way you progress through the rounds and increase your capabilities as the player. I agree that perk limits are a necessity for a good perk system, but I am also not opposed to what IW did with Directors Cut. I think a really in depth super easter egg is an amazing feature, and if the reward is a permanant perkaholic than I think that is good. I don't feel cheap for using director's cut in IW, I feel like I have earned that 25 thousand points, and all the perks, because I spent the hours doing everything in the game, including some rather difficult easter eggs such as Beast from Beyond, and the Spaceland boss fight. I think that IW zombies had the best perk system so far. 10-12 perks on each map (pretty sure Spaceland and Rave only had 10, but there was 12 on the latter 3), 5 perk limit, but you could get a perkaholic from doing the Skullhop/Skullbreaker/Skullbuster (whatever it might have been on that map), and while some of these were quite easy like beast from beyond, some were a little bit harder and more in depth like radioactive thing with the 4th skull. Then of course you could get Director's cut to get perkaholic as well.

[@skylerk3146]

They need to separate essential perks (Stamin-up, Quick Revive, Juggernog, Speed Cola) and non essential perks like phd or deadshot. I also think it would be interactive if there were perk add-ons for each perk that change the function of a perk or add an additional feature. (Mule kick could gain bandolier bandit effect or phd deals increased explosive damage) You would equip add-ons to perks before the match. Essential perks have static prices and you can't lose them. Non-essential perka have cold war pricing and they are lost when you go down.

[@ferrot6211]

I remember when cold war dropped, The wonderfizz wouldn't spawn til like round 20. I feel like that was a good system, but I do agree that you should definatly do a side quest to unlock it instead

[@jandatorres6017]

Wasn't the first time you could you could change your loadout without downing moon with the hacker?

[@Xpertfusion]

Technically yes, but I meant like as part of the core perk system

[@jakesnussbuster3565]

Technically it's ascension

[@matthewboyd8689]

A game with 5 or 6 perk limit, you can get more though quests, perks that can be upgraded not by buying them but specific quests like Regulations, and the endgame easter egg post cut scene gives you all of them and the mega easter egg upgrades them permanently.. Gotta say, that does sound perfect and the first half is what I was dreaming of since coldwar made no perk limit with out of game permanent upgrades. And i never considered the idea of gobble gums being something you directly buy with in game experience rather than RNG. To bad that call of duty is microtransaction hungry and won't make the gobble gums useful and efficient like you said though.

[@michaeldilley2544]

You've been spitting facts lately

[@haqnako]

Facts

[@exarezz116]

7:50 see people always say that. BUTTTTT they lit have the 4 og perks on in the game??? You get double tap by packapunching. You get speed cola by having all 4 perks. And you spawn in with a juggernaut.

[@eddiebaledy]

I loved the video so far, its a great video and honestly has the right questions and points to it.. Something I have had on my mind whilst watching so far is the pointing at Cold War's Forsaken Jug location, to say the least I am not angry anywhere near it for that matter but to me I dont see it as a great strong point since jug is actually not that important in my opinion.. I do agree with the overall point being better perks need to be harder to obtain and Deadshot is one of those perks in this case seeing that Deadshot in Die Maschine probably has a semi bad location that can screw with you if you try to get it from there.. Now onto Cold War's Wunderfizz machine, I liked how Die Maschine does it for the first 14 - 20 rounds before the Wunderfizz spawns in.. If you want the Wunderfizz early in Die Maschine you have to travel to the Dark Aether to access it which give DA more uses which is honestly nice but I think something on top of that in which could improve Cold War's Wunderfizz location would have to be random moving locations like the original except have it so that it just literally randomly moves like some of the Pack-a-Punch systems we have seen.. It also would be better if perks from there were like slightly more expensive than the normal perk machines since thinking about vending machines irl they tax you like crazy so that could be something ontop of the Wundersizz diff unless they were to bring back the random perk system for it.. Talking about that though, what would be interesting is if Secret Sauce made a weird comeback but only in the Wunderfizz and how it would work is it would be set at a cheaper price than all the other perks.. So it would translate to being a 1000pts cheaper so your first perk would be 1500 then 2000 then 2500 etc. but you dont get to choose what perk you are getting..

[@sncaterd]

A very simple fix for the CW style wonder fizz is perks can only be bought from that machine if they have been purchased from their actual perk machine at least once

[@sadovuato]

Cold War is the best so far. The most fun part of cod zombies is starting with nothing and leveling up into a unkillable super soldier. Having 10 perks helps take longer on setting up (the fun part) and making you feel even powerful

[@Wid21425]

The wf should be like this. When you start the match all perks in the wf machine are locked when you buy all the other perks they get unlocked in the wf. When you obtain all perks or when you reach the perk limit you unlock the option of buying from the wf and it has the extra perk that aren't on the map .

[@user-wl8zm2gl5r]

I think a coold idea is there being 4 crutch perks and like 4-6 secondary perks but being limited to 1 crutch at a time, and the crutch perks being a lot better than the other perks, and all 4 crutch perks being great in a category, so they're all great but o ly great in 1 field if that makes sense, for example, jug could make you a juggernaut as the name suggests, where the perk is amazing for defense but nothing else, or you can pick speed cola where you master reload speed, equipment use, etc. Etc. But you can't use jug. And then an example of secondary perk being dead shot, mule kick, a nerfed version of widows wine, vulture aid,etc. And like how you said in the video you can swap out perks at the machine so you can choose and adapt and pick what perks suit your playstyle and/or map you're playing.

[@OwenCamel]

Havent seen the video yet, but Im predicting Fusion reccomenda a 5 perk limit because thats what I want Edit: called it

[@kaisel-zf7ls]

I think bo4 would have the best perk system if each perk machine worked like a mini wonderfizz from coldwar. They could've split the perks between the 4 machines. For example 2 of the machines could have 5 perks each and the other 2 could have 4 each. I really love the fact that the "main perks" are gone in bo4 as it allows you to just take any random perk without handicapping yourself.

[@ZelaumTheHunter]

I think the best way would be having a perj limit but you can increase those limits somehow in the match. Because you can get all the perks but not at first because you have to get more slots

[@dariusdafigga]

BOCW’s wunderfizz is kinda OP I can agree on that, they should’ve just ported the same machine from BO2 & BO3 that way if you go down during the middle of round 25+ it can actually be a challenge to get the perks you want since it’s random and zombies are all over the place If they just made it so that upgrading perks was more difficult and took more time, I think most people would be satisfied. Also being able to turn off certain tiers of a perk is so simple I can’t believe it wasn’t ever implemented. That way you can choose to use the base version of perks if you want more of a challenge. Being forced to use some upgrades that you may not like almost feels like the game is punishing you for upgrading them I still think BOCW has the best perk system we’ve seen so far tho (minus the wunderfizz aspect)

[@xd3athclawx554]

Before watching this video I believe that having 5 perks is the best way. However if a map has 8-9 physical perk machines there should be a way to get a 6th perk slot through some side easter egg, and then 10+ there should be a way to get a 7th perk slot. 5 perk slots is a good base as it feels not too op but not too weak.

[@mlbye6343]

Black ops 2-3 had the best system

[@fathead827]

Ww2 was dope and bo2. I never liked the bubblegum system but drinking bottles or zapping my hand and seeing the icon display on the left was dope and then it felt balanced you lost some the longer you were dead. And it was simple which was my favorite part

[@kirakirakiivvi]

Loved the video, despite a few points I didn't entirely agree on - I think this is a discussion that's often had in snippets and heavily opinionated asides, and it's great to see a well-thought-out approach that dives into WHY certain ideas might be good or bad.

[@iLoveMiIfs]

Remember when u actually had to work to get all the perks ( not counting gobble gums ofc) like finishing the ee or doing side quests like in origins or doing a challenge like jumping jacks

[@Quad373]

1. I absolutely love quest to obtain extra perkslots/extra perks. It should be rare to have more than 4 perks and its that more satisfying when you get a slot and have more than 4. 2. I like perma perks, I love how discrete they are. The game needs more things like that. It hurts nothing by being in the game and only adds to the experience for those who want more things to do. 2. I love what Revelations did with their upgrade perk easteregg. I don’t really like tiered perks like Vanguard or Cold War but I do like doing a lil easteregg to turn a modified perk thats just a lil bit stronger. 4. Perk prices shouldn’t be dynamic in the way they are in Cold war. I know it sorta controls the speed at which you gain new perks but that system is only needed if theres no limit. 5. The Wunderfizz machine should be random and should only carry specific perks like it used to, not all of them, and some perks should be rarer than others, Quick Revive should have a harder chance to get than Deadshot etc etc. and certain perks should be omitted or be a very rare pull like PHD Flopper was in Origins. So basically a mix of those things. 4 perk limit, but each map having their own way to either get more slots or earn perks by doing specific unguided objectives, not like Coldwars challenge reward system, but like how Bo1 or Bo2 handled it. Like not letting the jumpers touch you or the monkeys touch the perk machines or digging up red digspots on Origins. And then finally being able to upgrade certain perks once IN GAME, not like Vanguard but by doing a small easteregg like in Revelations. Also each perk maintaining their own unique price-tag which gives them character. I dont like the cold war system. Jug should always be 2500 and Speed Cola 3000 etc. Since there a 4 perk limit this shouldn’t be an issue.

[@curley22]

I would love the Cold War system but with these tweaks A. No perk upgrades, just give us decent balance from the start of progression. B. Either make the wonderful random again or make it only contain perks without a machine present in the map so you have to actually use the machines C. Finally I would reek the cost scaling from Cold War I would say your first perk is 2000 and goes up 1000 for the first four but after that each additional perk gets exponentially expensive so there more of a soft limit but still no hard limit

[@danothenailer]

For the perk limits, you could have the option to buy a perk slot during games with points, going off 4 limit with 8 total perks, you could buy the 5th for 20k points, 6th for 25k, 7th for 30k and 8th for 35k, so they can be obtained each game, but it will take some time to do so.

[@Xpertfusion]

My only issue with that is I don't like most of the games' in-game progression being locked behind just points (or salvage). I like having actual physical things to do on the map to progress, that I can do at any round. But especially with the new point system, it would just turn into training zombies round-by-round and just waiting till you get enough points.

[@izakzarco]

I think the challenge system for perks would be perfect. I always thought that they should do that. I like a no perk limit so mixing it with that would be great. I think Die Machine almost had it right with the wonder fizz machine where it would spawn 10 rounds after unlocking pap. (besides entering the dark aether) But I think the wonderfiizz if it is like the cold war one should either spawn 15 rounds after you unlock pap or if you want to unlock it early you have to fight a boss after doing a little side easter egg, and have it in an area hard to attain, like some parkour or a really risky area like the buried pap. I dont agree with every idea you had, but you had some good ones. Good video.

[@painuchiha8325]

I agree with you 💯 for me i feel perma perks and easter egg how should be abel get all perks like with orginis or if compete moon ee get all perks when you go down keep them solo lose quick rev tho and dircter cut should return semce its Treyarch could call it something like samantha mode

[@Cheeseitsproductions]

Instead of the super easter egg reward being directors cut again, they could unlock a room in each map which has the cold war wunderfizz. Instead of perk upgrades I think the modifier system should return. Have it so the final perk you can buy get the modifier, this could mean some people choose not to get jug till the later rounds

[@Quackra]

The funny thing is that me and my friends would coordinate who should get what based on our skill sets back in BO2 because back then it did better to do so. We would all still get stuff like Juggernog, but I actually got stuff like Stamin-Up, QR and Double Tap which to this day is my setup on the maps you can do it on. Here are my setups with friends that I did at the time: WaW: skipping because everyone has the same perks and I started playing WaW after BO2 Kino/Five: Classic 4 perks (Mule Kick just isn't worth it in BO1) Ascension/Call of the Dead: Jug, QR, Stamin-Up and PHD Flopper Shangri-La/Moon: Jug, QR, Stamin-Up and Double Tap (I ran things that had good enough reloads to not really feel like needing Speed Cola) Tranzit: Jug, Double Tap, Stamin-Up, QR Die Rise: Jug, Double Tap, QR, Speed Cola Mob of the Dead: Jug, Double Tap, Speed Cola and Electric Cherry Buried: Jug, Double Tap, Vulture Aid and QR Origins: Jug, QR, Stamin-Up, Speed Cola and Double Tap (Until I went down, but I didn't know how to do the free perks until after the launch of BO3, in which I'd drop Speed Cola) These are after years of experience: WaW-BO2: Change out Double Tap in BO1 for Speed Cola, nothing changes from the lists above out side of getting every perk that I can Shadows of Evil-Revelations: Jug, Widow's Wine, Double Tap, Stamin-Up (Would get the rest through free perks or gobblegums) BO4: Skipping because I don't have enough experience with the perks on that game, but QR and Stamin-Up would likely be on there. I do know what perks didn't make it into BO4. I personally hope that they improve the perk system in BO6, but there is no guarantee that we will see one

[@slameron8709]

Cold War’s der wunderfizz makes sense for open world modes like outbreak or mwz, but has no place in round based maps imo

[@FakeLibra]

Damn bro, your video is amazing! You deserve more subs bro

[@Xpertfusion]

Thank you!

[@victorjozek5384]

So all combined, a perfect perk system would be: 10+ perk selection 5 perks base limitation Unlockable perk slots Perk accessibility depending on strenght Ability to sell perks No all-perk machine Upgradable perks Full perk easter egg reward Reworked perma perks

[@BBB_photography_adventures]

If perks are going to be upgraded it should be in game. But like Cold War you get either crystals but they are used for buying you’re gobble gums directly not randomised

[@aidenroy7214]

I feel like dropping down the perks to 4 , and add like 3 upgrade tiers but have like side effects that you can try that aren't as powerful but helps with your play style. So like jug first upgrade is just extra 33hp but second tier is 66hp and side effect one being gaining half an armorslot what doesn't go to max armorslots ( if we are continuing with cold war like game play) or you can have faster health regen.

[@PrimisDempsey]

Perks are cool and useful, that is part of the reason why I like no perk limit. But seeing all the perks in the corner all those colorful pictures is also fun to see. *cough* Treyarch, bring back Widows Wine and Double Tap 2.0 for Bo6.

[@BigBillsBadDeals]

The limit is for balance. If you remove that balance then the perk limit they have no strategic responsibility

[@zp1405]

I like the cold war system but i feel like the seperate prices are better for the machines themselves and i like the random locarions like bo3 has

[@luixo6220]

I agree with everything you said EXCEPT buying specific gobblegums only because I think the RNG on which gobble you get from spinning liquid divinium is super important because without that you could for example buy a bunch of perkaholics or shopping frees with the in game currency and then you would use them up without regard because you can always just buy more whereas with the current randomized system you have to put more thought into whether or not you want to use your perkaholic because you don’t know when the next time you’ll get one will be thus making them more valuable.

[@eduardoportal5341]

I never had a problem with cws perk system. So if it came back in bo6 im fine with that. Never had a problem with the wonderfizz too, i mean the perk machines serve its purpose in the beginning cuz the wonderfizz is not available until power is on or some other activation so therefore you have to actually visit the physical machines. And say if you go down midround and you're not near the wonderfizz, well obviously your next bet is to actually go around the map to the physical machines.

[@MechEnthusiast2023]

Looking at this now they actually put the wonderfizz machine in t3 on MWZ

[@luisrosado7050]

personally, i think theres a good middle ground here, which is kinda rare in our world but here me out. add seperate difficulty modes for the player ranging from easy to the hardest mode with classic being in between. have the perk slots vary with difficulty, zero limits for easy, nine slots for medium, six slots for hard, four for classic, two-one for any difficulty afterwards not counting brutally difficult to obtain sub perks like perk-a-holic. have the wonderfizz only give perks not on the map with higher prices as per how powerful they are. as for unlocking the wonderfizz, i dont know, it might be tedious to do it every single match at worse and result in the same issues at best, maybe doing the challenge once but it leads to the same issues of it being pointless.

[@dantheman5405]

IW system. A bunch of perks and a 5 perk cap.

[@JohnnyJohnnyJohnnyJohnnyJohnny]

I like cold War's perk system alright, but totally agree with the wunderfizz. Definitely don't want it like that in bo6

[@rookie4582]

I understand the CW Perk Machine makes the game easier and reduces the importance of Perk placements around the map, but from my experience (I’m not a zombies pro) buying from the machine gets really costly to the point it’s better to just go around the map. It seems like it’s also a choke point to stay within the perk machine, at least in Firebase Z. I still prefer the WonderFizz from Origins, but I don’t think the perk machine deserves the hate. Again I’m no pro, and I also refuse to upgrade the skill trees in Cold War zombies. I’m still play all stock, no upgrades on weapons or perk skills. I don’t like how it makes everything easier permanently from the starts and not just upgraded IN GAME. Not sure if that makes a big enough difference.

[@tajh6463]

Gums cans or bottles which one is the best to you guys i think the gum was coolest perk form

[@edward1259]

With the way you showed the permanent upgrades from Cold War I did like it, but I think the upgrades should be permanent in the end. I want my work to be permanent or at the least something I choose to reset, otherwise all my hard work would be for nothing.

[@arwenosman]

They did say that they had more plans for CW but they couldn’t put them into the game, so i wonder what they’ll add and change. I want them to change the perk limit to 5 and it would be cool if they add some easter eggs that will let you get more perks. if they don’t do this then i hope they bring back the perk limit and give us Unquenchable Gobble gum. My biggest concern for BO6 isn’t even the perk system, it’s the difficulty of the game. I don’t want the game to be too easy and i don’t want it to be as hard as BO4

[@dusty_reaper96]

On moon hacker device u can refund perks that was first time u could IW wasn't first one to do it

[@character1782]

Used to hate gg but cause you can get LD from playing the game and then use it to spin for GG it's a good system

[@insomniac2895]

Lore wise, the wunderfizz makes sense. The forsaken found the remnants of the old perk machines and the old wunderfizz. He needed a way to reliably get the perks he needed, so he built the new wunderfizz using the old parts. You can actually see the old design for the individual perk macines and der wunderfizz in the new wunderfizz. Also, in reality if you were in this scenario why would you want to limit how many perks you can drink? Try putting yourself in the operator's shoes. If i was in cold war zombies of course I'd want to be overpowered.

[@ethanhawkins3391]

Der Wunderfizz is a great concept, but completely broken in implementation. Couple changes could be a 3 perk limit per round, rotating locations like BO2/BO3, and a tax on prices to incentivize buying perks directly from their machines. One thing I love about Cold War is the escalating perk cost with the more you buy

[@thetoastedmarshmallow1606]

I don't think no perk limit is a bad thing necessarily. I think it is bad in cold war BECAUSE of the wonderfizz machine. In some BO3 custom maps with no limit I think it's really fun and satisfying to get perks like elemental pop or banana colada, perks that I would normally not get over my usual QR, Jugg, Speed cola, and double tap. I feel like a 5 perk limit would just result in the same 5 perks of the above mentioned + stamin-up. And maybe there could be an argument for 6 perks or 7 or 8 with the ability to remove perks. I'm not sure exactly where that sweet spot lies. Maybe there could be an in-game system to buy extra perk slots on top of a 4/5/6 base perk limit that gets increasingly more expensive the higher past the base you get? (like 4000 to get a 5th perk slot, 8000 to get a 6th perk slot, etc.) It really depends on the map of course, but I think it being difficult (and costly) to get all of your perks back if you down is good and very fun and makes you consider money even into mid-late rounds.

[@DVGBlur]

Perk limits is actually a reason I love the variety in different Cod Zombies games. Do I want a challenge today? I’ll go play BO1 with a 4 perk limit. Do I wanna breeze through the rounds? I’ll go play Cold War with no perk limit

[@Paralyzed-rm6vc]

Cw also had armour which broke the entire early round difficulty of building up till you get jugg. Personally I'm under the impression that perks where to give you a slight edge over the hoard and cw destroyed that and I though when they said upgraded perks I though it would be a challenge like bo1 mp pro perks where you get a little bit of bonus

[@MonkeyMan90.5]

They could just bring back the old system pre BO4 while also giving you 1-2 more perk slots. I think letting you buy all the perks is too overpowered, and it looks like they’re not going to be keeping that from Cold War seeing as how Perkaholic is confirmed to be in BO6. I think letting you have all the perks could work, but it is still pretty overpowered and I don’t think they should bring it back.

[@nicholasw8708]

I think Cold War was an amazing game. I like how they did the perk system

[@jeyphr]

This video does get a lot of points correct, but I feel as though it missed the forest for the trees in some aspects. When you ask, "What is the best strategy for getting a high round on Cold War Zombies?" you're going to get a similar answer every time. Buy all the perks, camp with the wonder weapon, Ring of Fire, etc. Doesn't matter, which map. If we ask another question, "What's the best strategy for getting a high round on Black Ops 1 Zombies?", the first thing you ask is "What map?". This is because Black Ops 1 zombies does not have a meta strategy, the maps do. Getting to round 100 on Kino is different to Shangri-la, is different to Moon, is different to Five and so on. The each had their little quirks and techniques that players exploited to get to those high rounds. This is why modern zombies doesn't hit as hard. It's why the perk systems are the way they are, it's why the point systems are the way they are, hell it's even why the maps are the way they are. The current director for zombies has done everything they can to erode what little amount of technique OG zombies has to make the mode as accessible as possible. Like I said, you hit many of the same points, but from a different perspective, mainly looking at the perks. Good Video!

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

I think this perfectly sums up one of the major differences between classic zombies and modern zombies. In CW most of the maps feel very samey, whereas bo1 kino plays very different to shangri la, which plays different to moon etc.

[@Nazrat84]

The meta strategy in BO1 is the same among all maps. You train with that maps Wonder Weapon and use whatever trap will instantly kill a horde of enemies as quickly as possible. All world records on BO1 employ this exact strategy, the only thing that changes is the map's layout.

[@jeyphr]

@@Nazrat84 The map layout plays a critical role in the way that a map plays and feels. It's like saying that wrestling and boxing are the same sport because they both involve 2 men attacking each other until one of them gives in. The high round strategy for Kino, the one that they use to get the world records, is very different to the high round strategy on moon, for example. Kino is a trap based strategy, whereas Moon utilizes spawn manipulation to get the fastest spawns. There's also just completely new mechanics on Moon that don't exist when playing Kino, and that's just one example.

[@dimensionalz6103]

the way i would do this would 6 perk limit with 2 slots avaible for upgrade so lets say i have QR JN SC DT i can choose to either get 2 more perks or i can upgrade 2 of them and give up my 2 extra perk slots so either i have have 4 perks and 2 two of the are upgraded or i can get 6 perks in total and no upgrades so basically you choose beetwen an extra slot or upgrade that would work with 5 perks too like i have 5 perks 1 of them is upgraded i can only have 5. the way i handle downs would be the perk icons would start to fade(kinda like they do in tranzit with the turbine) and you got 15 seconds after you get up before you lose them that way you dont feel hopeless about losing all perks since you can get on your feet again start rounding up zombies and not end the game but dont get too comfy either cause you lose them soon, keep the iw remove perk sistem and wunderfizz would work like this lest say want DT and SC DT is across the map but speed cola is near my location so the way wunderfizz would work is i get to the machine and i select double tap and thats the only perk that i can get from it in the next 30 seconds so i get double tap out of wunderfizz and speed cola shortly after that way i´d still would have to traverse the map to get the perks but wunderfizz wouldnt be completely useless or op and i would still have a reason to get to the perk machines

[@josephsuarez7629]

On origins everytime I hit the wonderfizz I get PhD flopper no matter how many times i hit it

[@springbonnieflix3798]

Or if they do Cold War wonder make you wait till blank rounds like die machine

[@Europe-hd6qo]

I like the thought of having to do challenges to upgrade perks in game, but I do think that you should also have to buy the perks again to upgrade them after you do the challenge, just to make it a bit more interactive, and to make you go more out of your way to become super strong and stuff. A good game that does this, would be Risk of Rain 2, a game where (depending on who you pick) take a long time to get really strong and OP, but there is an enemy type that is made to kill you, even when you are over powered, they do this by just completely stopping all health regen, which is a pretty big thing, and also dealing a massive amount of damage, which i think really helps, because, no matter how powerful you are, you still have to work and fight and run and actually play the game, instead of just sitting in a bubble with two super strong turrets *cough cough* engineer*cough cough*

[@Europe-hd6qo]

And, also, after looking through some comments on this, and MANY videos, I see a lot of hate and stuff towards Cold War's somewhat lazy design, which, I don't like at all, and I do believe that it really takes away from the game, but, I also think that not many people account for the fact that, about halfway through the game, the majority of their team was prioritized on getting MW2 and Vanguard somewhat functional in the ABSURDLY small time limit that they were given. But, doesn't matter what anyone else says, cuz y'all's opinions are y'all's, and nobody else can tell you that you are wrong. . .well, unless you say that BO1, BO2, or BO3 are bad

[@prodjordyy]

I think Dr. Monty’s factory should be the same in bo6 as it is in bo3 but once you’ve got a gobblegum once you can then directly purchase it as many times as you want