How Wizards Of The Coast Sabotaged Double Masters 2022 | Magic: The Gathering

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[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

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[@heavenbryan4018]

Money money money in my huge lairs.

[@darthkoo5000]

I did a draft, and brought a single Top. The draft was fun, even though I went 1-2. I am done with the set

[@actcrafty4375]

Hey Prof. Not sure if you'll see this, but I wanted to flag it anyway. 'Wellness' apps like Noom are absolutely infamous in the eating disorder community for the damage that they do; people with orthorexia are especially vulnerable to them, and it's gotten bad enough that one of the first things you get asked at intake is whether you're using one of those apps. They feed into obsessive behaviors around found, and the way they encourage you to 'track' what you eat and how much you exercise is basically trains your brain to start thinking in a way that EDs tell you to think, and I can't tell you how many women and girls I met in treatment that ended up in residential treatment because the obsessive tracking these apps encourage either triggered an episode or created a problem that ended up requiring treatment. I would really encourage you to reach out to psychiatrists and social workers who specialize in EDs, as well as people who struggle with EDs, to get another perspective on these apps. The wellness industry is a scourge, and part of why it's so insidious is how well it positions itself as "healthy" and "nonjudgmental" while encouraging obsessive behavior, creating problems that can only be 'solved' by using their services or buying their food. If nothing else, I think it's a serious enough issue that these ads need a content warning attached to them. For a lot of people, getting away from these apps was incredibly difficult work, and being exposed to them again can be deeply triggering. I know that I had to skip the ad section because I started to have a panic attack, and I never even used a wellness app as part of my illness. I can't imagine how upsetting it would be for someone who had. Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out there as something to consider. I know it sounds absolutely insane to someone who's never been involved in ED treatment and I'm sure I explained badly! But I think that's why reaching out to a professional in ED treatment might be good, as I"m sure they could explain better, or at least provide a more nuanced perspective than the Noom PR team probably did. I lovelove this channel and the work you do and the idea that I'd have to have my partner screen your videos for me because you're running Noom ads really would suck.

[@jeremiahbachmann3901]

$12 Draft??? Where do those exists? I'll need to get my DeLorean.

[@DeaconClash5000]

The only reason WotC has to charge premium prices for these sets is that they can, that we’ll pay it. Masters sets require fewer resources, have lower costs to develop, and should in reality cost the same or less than regular sets. Masters sets don’t require a creative team to develop a setting, lore and story. Masters sets mostly recycle existing art, whereas new sets contain only new art which costs MUCH more. The limited print runs of Masters sets are a choice, not a problem WotC has to deal with, so scarcity is also no excuse for higher prices. Masters sets are increasingly predatory.

[@auraaetherbladesigma6939]

True that

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

A+

[@trumpetperson11]

Couldn't agree more. If you want to play the magic the gathering card game, wizards has a monopoly on the game pieces, and they know that. They will squeeze for ever last ounce they can get away with.

[@nathanaelmcmahan872]

At least they remember to put on their rainbow and "I support the current thing" shirts on in time for marketing.

[@woltergeist9175]

Step 1 is to recognize that you are in an abusive relationship with Hasbro. Step 2 is to break that relationship by no longer buying into their premium products!

[@MultiBlackman13]

It's easy to be cynical when dockside litterally says "It's just bussines" on the card. Wizards is self aware.

[@wurdofwizdumb1928]

That flavour text is really funny to me.

[@billdoetsch]

I'm considering proxying my dockside into new art with the text, "It's just paper."

[@jeremiahbachmann3901]

Why would WotC try to make the game better for players when they can make money for the (already) wealthy investors instead? Rich people need more money. The game is not as important to them.

[@ozmond]

@@billdoetsch then do it. Wizards doesn’t care how much you cry about it in comment sections

[@gorganiangranola]

Yeah that flavor text is hilarious. It's so true and it displays perfectly why they are content with the way it's going and why many of us aren't. The new dockside is basically art, it's ugly, it's cherished, it's wanted, it's disputed and it makes a perfect statement for either party to dumb down what they base their feelings on

[@iniksbane]

When I watched this video, I was struck by one of the reasons I just can't convince myself to buy back into magic. I can buy a computer game for $20 to $60; if I spend 20 hours with it, I feel like I've gotten my money's worth. If I spend $200 to $1,000 on a deck and I find that it's not really for me, well I could have bought tens or hundreds of other games for that price. From a value proposition, Magic just isn't worth it anymore. This isn't a new problem for Magic, but it's certainly a persistent one, and it only seems to be getting worse.

[@marcohonig1290]

In my playgroup it’s ok to play for some time full proxy deck until you feel the deck is how you like it. And if you don’t want to play competitive you could say with your playgroup maximum deckprices of 150 € for example.

[@piss5061]

I have a solution ✨proxies✨ (while also supporting woc by buying packs)

[@djrmarketing598]

This is why most people I play with have no problem with proxies. I have most EDH staples but if I build a deck (which I tear down after a couple months) has non staple cards in it I just run a proxy. But you could just buy a precon which these days is pretty strong is casual metas and have a good time for less than $100

[@KSE828]

@@piss5061 Or just proxy and refuse to support WOtC and their greed. Don’t support something that is inherently broken.

[@m1gr3nA]

i love when i can build my deck with real cards but the reality is that prices of staples in any format have skyrocketed so i just use proxies. it's a different thing when an old card is expensive because, well, it's old and have high collectors value and when manufactured scarcity and power creep makes it expensive. the latter is unacceptable so i will continue to use proxies until cards become reprinted at affordaple pricepoint and i suggest everyone to do the same.

[@Jakerunio]

I walked into a local game store today and saw a foil full art marnie from pokemon tcg in the case, listed for over 4k yen. Thats roughly $30 or so in the US. The normal version of the card is 30 cents. The case was filled with dozens of other pokemon tcg cards of similar prices, with the normal versions of those cards all likewise being under $1. I don't know how good Marnie is in actual gameplay, but I think that regardless that price difference is very indicative of something: that you can have the regular game pieces of your game be dirt cheap while the collectible versions of those cards are very expensive and desired. Obviously the branding of pokemon is more sought after by non-players than magic product because its possibly the largest and most popular IP worldwide, but at the same time Magic as an IP is nothing to scoff at. Why are magic cards not treated in a similar fashion, with chase premium versions of cards being valuable and the regular game pieces needed to play standard, pioneer, modern and commander being relatively cheap? This actually all circles back to the decline of competitive play and formats like standard, too: what incentive is there for a new magic player to play standard when their deck costs as much or more than a commander deck, and the standard deck rotates and is the overall less popular format? If Wizards wants standard and draft to be popular again so that they can sell more booster packs, maybe they should look at this root cause and address it.

[@MCDanGaming25]

Marnie has been a 2-4 of staple in the vast majority of standard decks in pokemon since its debut early 2020. Its first printing was a holo (mtg equivalent to mythic) then a rare in a special set 8 months later, then reprinted in almost every precon since. Even with those reprints the Japanese alt full art is over 100 dollars. Pokemon is just built different

[@Jakerunio]

@@MCDanGaming25 cool, yeah the normal copies were in the bulk bins for like ¥20.

[@ozmond]

Nope

[@vintageswiss9096]

Make more money off packs? Wizards/Hasbro just had their most profitable quarter in company history last month. They aren’t going to change anything until they bleed it dry for their shareholders.

[@hueman4927]

@@ozmond huh..?

[@muskrat72]

As a former store owner I wholeheartedly blame WOTC and their allocation process as well as these cash grabs for the downfall of my store. The majority of my customers were all lower income but lived the game so much they would spend their hard earned cash at my store to get great packs especially for draft. However, I was never allocated enough to cover demand because I was a low earner store. Never enough boxes, never enough prize support and definitely never enough help in maintaining a healthy player base. My s customers loved it when they knew if they spent $15 for a draft that they a chance at a beautiful masters print of a great card and at the very least they walked away with good prize support and the memory of a good time. I couldn’t imagine how I would be able to continue to cultivate a good atmosphere and provide product that my customers could afford with the pricing they are doing now. Hell, even the biggest shop in our area is struggling to keep its doors open.

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

I hear many similar stories from many current and former store owners.

[@danielwideman5255]

Stores are caught between WotC and the players. Drafters now have arena, and other players are told right here by prof to "buy singles, buy singles." I know Prof loved the LGS, but come on, you're killing us. I'm sure the Card Kingdoms of the world love you, but small and medium stores don't get enough value or supply to crack boxes for "value." Our singles come from trade ins. If no one cracks packs, we have no supply. You may not intend it, Prof, but you, Kenobi, and the other streamers championing this are killing pack sales. Once you add this to having a local premium store that is now starting to be allowed special events or extra events, and it's getting hard. I'm fortunate. The place I work has a smart owner and a supportive player base in a gaming hotbed, but if this continues there will be a tipping point.

[@elfentrol]

Today my LGS told me that the distributors are increasing the prices to the stores based on demand. They can no longer count on the price given to them at the first order to stay the same on the next order of the same product. So now they're stuck between risking over-ordering a product now, or paying extra to get more later. And since the price usually goes up on future orders, their margins go even lower. It's just not worth it.

[@zombeezy7161]

You in Florida? This sounds exactly like our old LGS, Gathering Games. I miss having a community for Magic.

[@muskrat72]

@@zombeezy7161 nope. Ohio

[@darkxzero13]

I'm getting the same "exploit the addicted whales, fuck the rest of the player base" mentality that made me leave mobile gaming - I'm looking at you, Diablo. New to magic, so take this with a grain of salt. We're probably different, but here's no way in hell I'm dropping up to $20 on a single double master's pack to gamble for the *chance* of getting maybe something *useable* in the 99 of single deck when there's plenty of worthy $20 Indy games that will give you 40+ hours of enjoyable entertainment on Steam. I might be an amateur to MTG, but it doesn't take a genius to recognize a waste of time/energy/space, and maybe other MTG noobs like myself are seeing something similar. I appreciate your content, Professor. But there's only so much my filthy casual eyes can glaze over or roll deeper than Adele with release fatigue and price hikes.

[@EliyaSelhub]

A few points here... first, try Pauper. It's cheap and the gameplay is intense and strategic. Second, unpopular opinion, I like Diablo Immortal. I've been playing Diablo since the first one in the 90s, and it hasn't really changed fundamentally. There are monsters, go click on them until there aren't monsters, except more monsters will spawn, but you'll have the satisfaction of having clicked on the first ones. Here, put on these vorpal earmuffs, they'll help with the monster clicking. I did plenty of min-maxing in D3, and I found the gameplay doesn't really change much at higher levels with tricked-out builds, it's still just clicking monsters until they go away to get better earmuffs. So now I can do that but in bed and for free. Sure if I gave them money I could click on monsters with different stats but so what? I'm fundamentally disinterested in competing with other people in PvP or in who-can-click-the-most-monsters.

[@malcolmxbox]

@@EliyaSelhub he didn’t ask you if you liked Diablo

[@nexinex6049]

@@EliyaSelhub Whether you enjoy it or not the pay to play systems are legitimately predatory. No one is coming after your enjoyment, they're coming after how abusive it is to both whales and ordinary players.

[@ThomasLangston]

Let me recommend the MTGO Penny Dreadful format for a truly price gouging free MTG format.

[@ozmond]

Then don’t. Buy singles. Print proxies. It isn’t that deep bro

[@genger920]

More and more, unless you're playing in sanctioned events, you should just be proxying. WotC has made it clear that they don't want the game to be ~actually~ accessible to most of us.

[@Scantronimus466]

And if you’re playing in sanctioned events, use high-quality knockoffs.

[@joshlin8002]

This. Don’t feed the monster that kicks you down. Commander was the players format, not wizards. Ill play it my way paywall be damned.

[@bbnumber2643]

@@Scantronimus466 Don't do this. If you're competing in a sanctioned event, you agree to follow the rules of that event. One of those rules is "no proxies." Breaking this rule may invalidate any potential winnings from events and could lead to a ban from future events. I agree that proxies should be used wherever they can, but sanctioned events are certainly a place they cannot.

[@JE-mg1zj]

We give no Single F. We proxy the shit out of everything. 60 cards, 200+ Bucks. This is something totally different.

[@AnimeEnergy]

It's really hard to find a reason not to when the card game you love to play intentionally decides to cultivate an environment where 75 bucks for a single piece of cardboard is normal

[@Marker1313]

The fallacy of success. Companies can fall into this trap when they are making increasing amounts of money and assume this must mean they are fundamentally making the right business moves. So they double down to make even more without the self introspection to understand WHY they are finding such success. I mean where’s the “need” to be introspective when you’re succeeding? But the wise company knows the need for genuine introspection is independent of success or failure. And there in lies the fallacy and trap. Business success has many factors and often only some are a result of your business’s decisions. In this case, WOTC is suffering from the same issue as other attractive and beloved IP’s such as Pokémon. Magic is indeed a fantastic experience. Customers are extremely loyal to IP’s like this and in the short to midterm will happily put up with subpar business decisions in order to keep interacting with their beloved IP for the cost of a tiny bit of their patience and trust with WOTC each time. They are will to do this not because of the companies awesome customer centric decisions but because their core product is unique and highly attractive. However, if those business decisions keep up, wide spread customer fatigue and mistrust will eventually set in and the IP will gravely suffer in the long run for it. Thus making WOTC less overall money in the long run as they fall for the trap of the fallacy of success.

[@testaklese]

It may be self sabotage, but it's 100% intentional and working as intended. They know that people will still buy all of the product, they just don't care. People like alpha investments and their "this set is still underpriced" attitude certainly not helping.

[@hijinkstodeath1722]

I’m so glad we have a widely visible member of the community that actually voices the opinions of the community, as opposed to being more lenient or just pretending there’s no problem entirely so they get sent all of the preview cards and whatnot.

[@gankgoat8334]

This really goes beyond biting the hand that feeds. I am willing to bet my entire collection that just about everyone here started playing Magic because someone already playing the game introduced them to it. The player base has always been the marketing team companies dream of and yet we are treated like this. Nowadays whenever someone asks me about the card game I have to include a warning of how expensive it can be.

[@ArtDraco-01]

I just started playing MTG recently. After Covid, I realized how little interaction I had with other people and it was effecting me negatively. I started asking people I knew what they were doing to be more social. To my surprise, I found lots of friends were playing MTG. I started playing to have an outlet to do more things with people.

[@SmuggyOcelot]

I always hate having to tell people that the game can be expensive. Because it can be a real huge turn off

[@colli_]

Tell them to proxy

[@littlesnowflakepunk855]

That's the unfortunate truth about most TCGs, but Magic in particular. Typically (But not always - I have cedh decks that only cost me ~$80) the higher the powerlevel of your playgroup, the more expensive your decks get. That's why I tend to either introduce people to the game via unmodified commander precons, of which I have a few to choose from for people to test out, or via Pauper.

[@moritzk4795]

To add to the warning of the cost, simultanously I point out how much fun it can be when you play with the cheaper cards and what is possible without spending a Fortune on the game

[@lunarevel]

I remember when spoiler season started, I got really really excited. Then prices started coming out, and when I got told it was $15-17 per pack, it was a crushing disappointment to me. It got to a point I was completely apathetic to the release, since I knew I just couldn’t afford it, nor the singles I wanted to buy. If the boxes were normal price; I would have kept my excitement and bought a box to seek the cards o wanted

[@billdoetsch]

At 10$ a pack I would be lining up to draft this set over and over. It's super cool- great art, interesting cards and archetypes but - 50-60$ would buy you the majority of a mana base for a new commander deck.

[@bonedaddygaming3143]

This is exactly what I went through. As a returning player that unfortunately got rid of my collection about 8 years ago (Long Story) I thought this would be a chance to finally afford some singles I've been needing for my edh decks. It's tough for me to afford this hobby, but I love it to death. When I discovered the pricing I went from excited for the opportunity and chance, to feeling completely dejected. To players like me, this is more than just a money grabbing scheme. It's a complete lack of understanding a good portion of their player base.

[@jonathandangelo6178]

It's too risky. At 5 or 6 bucks a pack its a bummer to get a shit rare, but it's whatever. In $12 packs it sucks for sure. At $18 though it hurts a lot more and it completely turns me off to the set. The idea that profit has to increase year over year means that, with mtg still increasing in popularity and profitability, there's simply no going back. I'm already burnt out on everything released recently.

[@SquawkBox13]

I kicked myself for not ordering any boxes from Amazon when they were still around the $250 range. Though, I've also seen several people who ordered that early say they are STILL WAITING for said order. So wouldn't be surprised if they had those early purchases cancelled.

[@ozmond]

Still a waste of money though. Buy singles. Save up for reserved list cards. Print proxies. I’m sorry it’s not cheap to gamble it does suck I agree

[@anthonyroberts3610]

I simply could not afford the set. I wanted to draft it, I wanted to go to my local game store and get some limited games. But when the buy in was minimum of 60-70 dollars or more. I just simply couldn't justify that in my budget nor could I afford even a couple packs here and there. It hurt to skip out on a set that has all the cards I want, and some cards I'd like to have or cards I could trade back for store credit or trade to friends. But I just can't justify spending 15-18 dollars on a booster pack with just 1 more card then usual.

[@nathanaelmcmahan872]

I feel for ya. I'm in a similar boat. I had to pick between DM prerelease or the pioneer championship. I'm lucky because our draft was only $40.

[@BurkeSchneider]

Same here. It's just too expensive for a lot of us that don't have a ton of disposable income. Especially with rising fuel prices and inflation.

[@Donovarkhallum]

Fomo is real.

[@JoshuaConnelly2005]

This set isn't for you. Wizards had in mind whom this set was for and you ain't it. Just be glad you didn't buy a 2x Masters draft box with the most expensive rare being a crucible of worlds, like what happened to me.

[@Invictus-Solaris]

You should put a good chunk of the blame on your LGS for that. The set was the right price up until the spoilers came out and they wanted to capitalize by canceling orders and repricing.

[@GroundThing]

For the paywall issue, I've basically quit MTG over it. I still have some of my decks, though I've sold a couple as well, but I haven't bought any new cards or packs in over 9 months, and I don't think I will in the future, unless something changes. I guess I was kind of holding out hope that something would change, but if anything it feels like it's just gotten worse over time.

[@sportyeight7769]

i still draft the standard sets with friends. But yeah, i don't do that kind of sets and when i miss a cards for my commanders, my printer go brrrr (or the chineses go brrr if i need a "almost real" to play at the stores)

[@NeverDauntedRadioNetwork]

But what you have to realize is that we don't ever need to buy into another set...ever. There are more than enough cards on the market RIGHT NOW to build decks in perpetuity. It's FOMO that keeps us coming back.

[@sportyeight7769]

@@NeverDauntedRadioNetwork true, but power levels change with each set. And drafting is still a fun experience.

[@Srcsqwrn]

It's been the same for years. I've been in the same boat for a long, long time now. It's just not worth it.

[@cuccooverlord9812]

Jumping from one product to the next one in no time, no blocks and constantly increasing prices will hurt deeply in the long run.

[@zlink88]

It's hurting the game now. I personally skipped more sets than I didn't, and I used to buy at minimum 1 draft box per set. Now I'm just saving for Unfinity, because un sets are my favorite

[@Sephiroth330]

It's precisely why I dropped out of buying into the game once the marketing strategy changed to this hyper-accelerated new product push, with a new set every 2 to 3 months

[@Invictus-Solaris]

When it comes to price, not all of the blame should be on WoTC tbh. Stores have some control in how expensive they want to make the products. As for so many sets… I’ve seen both sides of the coin on that. I am not disagreeing with your point, I would only like to play Devil’s Advocate. If let’s say there were four sets for the year: that would be one every three months. So what of it? Well, if the set for whatever the reason does horrible, then you would still have customers skipping the set and LGSs eating their losses. Having to wait half a year just because that one set was horrible is too much time to wait. Most would rather move on to the next set asap. Remember, not every set is going to be amazing. Look at any TCG. Pokémon sometimes makes really bad sets. They print it to oblivion anyways. The set tanks and you’re stuck waiting months in the hope of something better.

[@electric_dream_machine]

Will it really? It just seems that magic players will buy whatever wotc puts out, people have been complaining about this for a while now, yet in every circle I have everyone is like "oh boy I can't wait to get product x, y or z"

[@mjesus850]

why ill be playing sorcery, they wanna do slow roll releases and actually give you breathing room and treat you like a person not some ivory tower rich person

[@felixmortem1177]

Something that I've said to the owner of my Local Game Store is: "The day WotC makes a pro LGS decision is the day I will be surprised"

[@nightingale4632]

It feels like since the mtg - 40k crossover was announced, both games have been learning and copying each other's worst ideas

[@thebattleofpelennorfieldsp6081]

Is there a 40k set incomimg?

[@girlhunter2102]

Fair, but I’m less mad with GW these days. That balance data-slate did wonders and 7th Ed 40k is back in the form of Heresy! The price increases stink but I get more from them than I do WOTC.

[@tttyyy949]

@@thebattleofpelennorfieldsp6081 commander decks

[@nightingale4632]

@@thebattleofpelennorfieldsp6081 commander decks october (edited) (thanks everyone for letting me know)

[@nightingale4632]

@@girlhunter2102 GW like Wotc seems to do the whole one step forward two steps back. Heresy 2.0 was in mant ways a step forward, but not launching with placeholder rules for all factions (like 8th 40k) and the pdf for forgeworld units was terrible.

[@ethangarvey674]

I was excited for the set. Now I'm seeing all the cards I was excited about at $40+ still (the cool art treatments) and feel less excited. I bought a single collector booster just for fun, and pulled a bunch of bounce lands in my full art slots. What a ridiculous letdown.

[@FiereZero]

In the last 4 slots or just in the last 6 if it’s last 4 I’d get a refund box was tampered with

[@ethangarvey674]

@@FiereZero my last slot was a foil full art panharmonicon but the majority of my special art treatments were bounce lands i think i got three.

[@Dragoon92]

@@ethangarvey674 I work at an lgs and I hope this will make you feel better in some way. I opened 2 collector boxes and 1 loose packs and I was pretty pleased because I was able to cater to the law of large number more so then you. I didn't get a single imperial seal but I literally saw 4 people pull an imperial seal in their literal first pack, it's all numbers in a world where the more money you have to the less disappointment is afforded to you.

[@ethangarvey674]

@@Dragoon92 i get that. It's more so to the prof's point that they put so much bulk in the set that it doesn't lower the price of those big expensive cards because they're already so rare in the packs. I'd have been happy with 2-3 valuable reprints even if they were only $5-$10 each but i just got junk I'll never play with instead

[@eliamagri7413]

You could have spent 300 dollars on singles youvreally wanted. The fault is yours

[@nauticoom]

I just don’t have hundreds to thousands of dollars to throw around. So these are unaffordable to me. The next set will also probably be unaffordable. Seems like Wizards is excluding people who play magic that aren’t rich. I appreciate the professor being vocal about these things

[@TheKugieMonster]

I was kinda excited to pick up some Double Masters 2022 because, I was watching the spoilers and it promised to be a good set for commander reprints. But on day of release when I went down to my LGS to try and pick up some double masters 2022 packs and they had sold out on preorder, with confused word on whether or not there would be a second wave. Come on Wizards PRINT your game!

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

Do me a favor? Watch yesterday's video on "The Problem Players Of Commander" if you missed it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kH2zXpWYmdGpkKs

[@Greg501-]

WotC removing MSRP gives them the opportunity to say "we don't base prices on secondary market value, it's the people buying and selling at that price" while still charging distributors more for premium sets because they both know people will buy it.

[@Spicydonutwotv]

I will watch it again lol. I have kids so half the stuff I watch anywhere is hard to watch the full way through.

[@Durgenheim]

I absolutely despise the trend of expected value on boxes being overwhelmingly tied up in a handful of chase rares and mythics. I wish WotC would increase the *median* card value by including a healthy number of rares/mythics that are at or near the price of a pack. A distribution of 25/50/25 for low/medium/high value rare slot cards would be a dream. It's not too much to ask; we know they look at these numbers when selecting what goes into reprint sets.

[@Stinkoman87]

This is a set where you can make your money back on a box, but half of that comes from the last five packs. It's very feast or famine, which rewards those who have the resources to take advantage of the average value over large volume.

[@Justiceinall]

That median range is absolutely impossible. That range has 75% of all packs being worth as much or more as the value of the pack. The median value would plummet instantly causing a massive crash in prices immediately and then your median wouldn't be where you wanted it. Also if your top 25% is worth more than 2x the price of a single pack than your average value skews massively high, and that 2x number was assuming your bottom 25% was all worth literally nothing. You'd have issues with all the product being scooped up and sat on due to it's insanely high value if it were a limited print run. If it were an unlimited print run it would tank the price of every single card in it. A 25/50/25 distribution would just crash the price of all singles into the ground. If that's what you want then sure but it's not realistic. You can't have a ratio that has 75% of packs worth as much or more than the value of the pack.

[@Durgenheim]

@@Justiceinall You are absolutely correct - I was simply throwing a completely made-up and unrealistic number out there to illustrate my point. The fact of the matter is that the overall distribution of value should be much more smooth to avoid what we saw in this latest disappointing set :(

[@Volkbrecht]

The funny part about this is how WotC spends time and resources to produce, randomize and pack all those mostly worthless cards, and then most of the product gets unceremoniously ripped open, sorted, and probably a large part of it simply dumped into the trash. Just to get at the few cards hat hold a bit of value. The lunacy of the world...

[@JimFaindel]

I can justify spending about 50 bucks a month in Magic. That usually means I get a fat pack or a commander precon. But between Baldur's Gate (which I was extremely hyped about) offering literally nothing to add to my collection, and Double Masters prices allowing me to buy only 2 boosters, I saw no point in bothering with either. Even Arena hasn't convinced me to get the battle pass this season, since they are focusing exclusively on alchemy Baldur's Gate! I can't believe I am saying this, but I've actually gone back to Hearthstone as my main card game for the first time since Ixalan.

[@tempestandacomputer6951]

This is a rational take. Once I realized I had too many commander decks, I didn't enjoy pre release anymore, and packs were too expensive to crack for fun, I just stopped buying produc.t

[@Calvin_Coolage]

I only bought that pass because I need wildcards bad and I want to build up my supply for when Dominaria drops.

[@GlichCentral]

I’ve gone back to Hearthstone too and my Renothal wild deck is a ton of fun, and I haven’t spent a cent since returning.

[@Layjus123]

I've gone back to Legends of Runeterra for my mobile TCG choice. Magic Arena is garbage. Arena's game algorithms ruin entire game mechanics and they FORCE wins and losses by creating a 50/50 win and lose game ratio for all players using its algorithms to pair you against decks that completely counter yours perfectly while giving your opponent perfect first few turn draws or if that doesn't work too well, the algorithm makes sure you don't draw your lands in the first turns that your need. There's literally no reason to play Arena for me because even if one wins I feel as though one won because Wizards gave one the win. I watch a KZbin Arena player who intentionally creates decks that trick Wizards game-fixing mechanics.

[@Seelenverheizer]

Man Arena really got killed by fucking Alchemy shit

[@kylito6407]

Did 3 drafts at an LGS for $35 each (Almost no prize support though) and the BEST card I got was an emrakul, which is around $20 right now, with a pile of couple-dollar rares/uncommons. Even with lower prices it's still so hard to get value due to the sheer amount of bulk flooding the set.

[@Umbral-Hero]

When they fail to reprint anything useful into standard sets and each plane is only visited for a single set it's no wonder standard is dead

[@JMarcus52]

Commander is the new way-to-play, come on over and forget about that standard crap:)

[@janmelantu7490]

@@JMarcus52 yeah but standard is a fun way to play. I actually think Commander gets worse the more people play only it and no Standard/Pioneer/Modern.

[@ty_sylicus]

"Draft is not a one-time rare occurrence." For some of us, it truly is. Outside of online play, and my own Cube, I've only ever drafted a paper Magic product but a handful of times in the past 10 years. Of those, only a single time per set, and mostly auxiliary sets. While I do enjoy the skill intensity and tension of Draft, I just hardly ever bother as it seems overwhelming when I imagine everyone at the table has drafted the set more times than I have.

[@Kroxti]

If anything a reprint set should be cheaper than a standard set. Or a horizons set. Double or more the price is insane.

[@TwistedxGamer101]

Everything you’ve said is absolutely spot on. I’m as of writing this currently at Commandfest in Orlando. The event has been incredible but seeing vendors charging insane amounts of money on cards that were reprints in Masters 2022 has been insane. I’ve bought quite a bit from Masters 2022 as I’ve just started getting into higher power level decks but I’ve come to the conclusion from playing some tournaments this weekend that my decks at the top will not perform without some of the really expensive cards. Buying/making proxies for my personal play group is going to be the path I see fit for playing at that higher level. I don’t want to but, I simply can’t afford to play so many expensive cards to simply play at a higher level that won’t be at any tournament event.

[@simplybeef8232]

Same...I don't go to tournaments, I sit at home with 8 friends play FFA or teams while smoking a blunt with sports in background ...been playing for over a decade...been making proxies for the past 2 years

[@evanforbes1160]

Point 1 is exactly why I spent my money on the singles I wanted, despite my saving up with the intention of purchasing a draft box to draft with my family. The tought of opening bulk mythics like ghave, mizzix, or karador in a 15$+ pack killed my excitment for this set and I feel sorry for the myriad of folks out there who bought a box full of 1-5$ mythics.

[@nickbobst2220]

I did the same. The last minute I changed my mind and bought singles instead. My buddy got boxes and he did better out of the collectors packs vs. draft box for value.

[@nathansmith7517]

As someone who opened and got a ghave you made the right decision, rip

[@elkornu8]

In my experience with the set so far is that it has a lot of good reprints but also a lot of duds because of the “double” which is just a gimmick to give you a lot crap rares

[@corey2232]

The no MSRP thing is what killed paper MTG for me. I'm guessing it's working as intended so stores can charge more money without looking bad, but damn does it price out so many people.

[@endersblade]

@@MegaLadysman1234 Yes, but the M literally stands for MANUFACTURER'S. Which means WOTC would set prices, and typically, most stores would honor it. Don't get hostile unless you know what you're talking about.

[@DrizztFan23]

@@endersblade WotC does set the price. It's just invisible to the public. Before and after the change, prices for stores didn't change at all. Their cost remained identical on standard product. That means the hidden MSRP can be worked out with simple math for anyone who has the distributor's price for any given product. Remember that the MSRP removal also happened just before WotC started selling directly on Amazon. They knew they couldn't compete with the market at the original MSRP of 145/box, so they erased the MSRP so they could sell just a couple of bucks above what they charge distributors and stores.

[@JustAnotherPest]

@@MegaLadysman1234 They're too new to have experienced From the Vault, Commander 2013, and the first Modern Masters. They can't know that MSRP doesn't help anything.

[@michaelk6071]

Yeah, it looked exciting but I looked at the list of cards in the set and the odds of getting anything valuable, and just decided it's absolutely not worth it. I've joined the game recently at Innistrad Midnight Hunt, started to love the game during Neon Dynasty, but even I can see the terrifying pace of the game. SNC looked like a fun world to collect, but was quickly overtaken by Baldur, which ended up being a low value set followed by DM22, which is weirdly also kinda low value, or at least it is if you go for packs. I feel like by the time I can think about a set, it's gone, undervalued, and replaced.

[@chesterfieldthe3rd929]

I love this game. However this business practice is horrendous. Feels really really bad.

[@discarddungeon]

"I don't want all cards to be worthless." I do. Accessibility is paramount. If there exists a single card without at least one printing you can get for a few bucks at most, then you have failed to print enough.

[@Stinkoman87]

Let the special shiny variants be the absurdly expensive chase pieces. But let there be a reasonably priced base model as an option for someone that doesn't care that it looks boring because it plays just the same.

[@jkattack2640]

I dont entirely agree, BUT I do staunchly believe all lands should be worthless. I don't mind spending big bucks on a cool combo piece, card advantage engine, or big bomb, but it feels sooooo shitty to spend $$ just to be able to cast your spells

[@zacharyzuniga1599]

Good thing your not in charge running a Collectable card game company. Think you wanna play munchkin or something.

[@Stinkoman87]

@@jkattack2640 yeah, why is one of the most expensive part of so many decks the part that's the least interesting?

[@7Trys]

I love this idea, but this does have outliers. I come from a yu-gi-oh background and even after almost 15 reprints a card called Ash-Blossom's lowest rarity print, a common from a structure deck is still over 20 dollars. if a card is good and popular the price even at a lower rarity will still hold a pretty penny. With how MTG is constructed i don't know if reprinting the hell out of some power piece cards will affect their value. Outside of banning cards and removing them from formats to purposely tank their value i don't know what they can do.

[@markfisk7124]

I spent way too much on Double Masters 2022 and it is inevitably going to affect my engagement in the rest of the sets releasing this year. I doubt I will buy more than a handful of cards and packs for the rest of the year. Normally, I would love to get boxes, bundles, and commander decks but instead I'll be watching from the sidelines because I'm basically tapped out.

[@PatrickGotHands]

I haven’t bought anything of anything since the start of predator behavior in the beginning of the pandemic 😷

[@StuMTG]

I bought like 8 packs I felt so stinged I get that that is always there, getting bad rares in a pack But in a 16-17 dollar pack, that makes you feel like you dont want to buy any of the set Also the prices on the reprints I personally wanted, they didnt even go down very much!

[@EidoEndy]

Definitely agree with the draft argument. I don't quite get what low powered draft chaff is doing in a set that's supposed to be higher powered and whose slots could be taken up by something with a bit more value. i.e. if Last Breath was replaced by Swords to Plowshares, would that really kill the experience? What is Skeleton Archer doing there? Remove the rares and it's just... M22.

[@erysecret]

The removal suite for all of the colors in XM2 is very balanced. Average cost to remove a creature is 3. If they printed StP as an uncommon, it would basically completely warp the format around it. Since at least one or two people in a pod are bound to get it, possibly 3-4+. Would completely nullify basically all other removal It IS a high powered draft set, that's true, but the power mostly comes from late game bombs or really fast early game aggro, both of which StP is good for. And being able to draft 3 color decks means almost everyone that sees it will have access to it In my opinion

[@EidoEndy]

Perhaps. It does have really good removal. Though, I wasn't suggesting replacing that one card alone. My bigger point was how much it felt like a templated base set with bigger bombs. For such an absurd and self contained (reprint) set, it feels like a missed opportunity to not have a bunch more format warping cards in it.

[@erysecret]

I completely agree. For such a high powered set, it felt very slow. In all honesty it feels a lot like commander lite, like pitting 2 pre-cons against one another. Remand is another great example, they could have used that instead of mana leak, but opted not to. Sad to say, and I think we can both agree on this, is that the only real reason they didn't up the power level on this $400 per box set is because of corporate greed

[@zvnholy3396]

I was once told by a great professor to buy singles. I was happy we got some reprints, some of them got more affordable, after years I was finally able to get my hands on a Sensei's top. I still do hate the fact that I cannot enjoy playing a good draft or buy a box if I want to simply because these price tags are not realistic.

[@whodis715]

I just realized a few days ago how double masters has shifted my view toward the price of regular packs Now i feel more compelled to get them under 5$ because “atleast they aren’t 15$” But i think that was their whole game Door in the face/ foot in the door psychology Scare you off with a big price and then entice you with a lower one thinking you are getting a better deal They want expensive to be normalized because they know they can sell

[@TodayWePlay06]

It's sad knowing cards are getting more and more expensive and out of reach for many people☹️

[@ryanjmcintyre]

I took the time to fill out WotC’s Double Masters 2022 survey to tell them how much I liked the content of the set. And that I’m a draft and commander player who didn’t and won’t spent a dollar on this set because of the price. Recommend everyone do the same.

[@TheKugieMonster]

I had filled it out saying I would have bought it if my LGS had not sold out on preorder, with confused messages on a second wave

[@vladimirsomarriba5187]

It now closed

[@pattap9033]

Wehre can i find the survey?

[@kdbrier1]

I've played and collected Magic since 1995. I pride myself on my enormous collection 50K plus starting with Revised (Sure wish I collected before Revised). I goal was to collect sets. Over the last three years its become to damn expensive to collect anymore. I have this foreboding fear that Wotc's insatiable greed will destroy this game and my collection will be worthless in the future.

[@nikothecat4500]

The sad part to me is seeing people still buy into this product despite all of the glaring issues. I’ve seen some people even walk away with TWO draft boxes just because they could. If we don’t start holding ourselves to a higher standard then WoTC will just continue to set the bar lower and lower for us.

[@nikothecat4500]

@@MegaLadysman1234 People getting them for the preorder price is fine, and I’m sorry for not clarifying earlier. I’m talking about seeing people buy boxes despite knowing that the prices have been jacked up way too high. And while yes, LGSs purposefully charging more is part of the problem, WoTC is also to blame for getting rid of MSRPs that help regulate that sort of practice. It’s part of the reason I put some amount of responsibility on the consumer- they know they can charge more if people will buy it. They’re only going to keep pushing the envelope if people continue to buy these products at ridiculous prices.

[@delta3244]

@@MegaLadysman1234 Why would crashing MtG's secondary market be a legal nightmare for WotC? What cases could be brought against them, on what legal grounds?

[@delta3244]

@@MegaLadysman1234 So the reason WotC could be sued for demolishing the secondary market is because they have a legal responsibility to shareholders. That makes sense. I'm not convinced that keeping the secondary market's prices up is their best strategy for making profits, so I cannot confidently agree with the claim that them not doing so would get them in legal trouble (unless a company foregoing some short-term profits for stability is grounds for legal accusations), but I understand the logic behind the claim now. And yeah, the exact claim you're making is correct; they'd certainly get in trouble if they deliberately and completely crashed that market.

[@delta3244]

​@@MegaLadysman1234 I feel the need to point out a few things here. First, it is my understanding that company/division leaders are hired not to guarantee long-term profits, but to make a certain amount of profit in the short term. It's not uncommon for those people to move on from their leadership roles in well under a decade; they have no investment in the long-term health of the company, and it is not their job to have one. It is their job to guarantee profits now. Is that correct? If not, ignore the rest of this first paragraph. It is their job to make as much money as possible over the next few years, therefore they will hire finance/strategy/growth/etc. experts (henceforth called "experts") to help them with their task. Those experts, having been given the job of securing as much profit as quickly as possible, will do so, and will do their jobs well. I hold that, the strategy (executed over the next 3 years) which makes a company as much profit as possible over the next 3 years is different than the strategy (executed over the next 3 years) which makes that company as much profit as possible over the next 30 years. I hold that this is true for all similar timeframes (informal, but shouldn't be difficult to understand). Now, given this, I do trust those experts. I think they are better at their jobs than I am - I would be deeply disappointed if they aren't! Therefore, I expect that they will find a very good strategy to match their goals. This will be a strategy which maximizes profit over the next few years, for the reason stated at the start of this paragraph. This strategy, therefore, will not be the strategy which maximizes profit in the long term, which is what I was talking about in my previous reply. Appeals to authority are bad form. That said, I agree with the principle of your comment, and am willing to overlook the fact that it's fallacious. The fallacy doesn't matter; your point is flawed even if appeals to authority are considered sound arguments. My belief that Wizard's current strategy is not the optimal one for long-term success comes from the fact that I believe their experts are good at their jobs! Second, when did I claim I knew more than those experts? When did I imply that I believed such a thing? Those were quite the assumptions for you to make. Reread my claim! I did neither of those things! "I am *not convinced* that … is their *best* strategy..." (emphasis mine). Bolded words are important: "Best" is extreme. It is very unlikely that WotC's current strategy is the _best_ one they could be using. Everyone, including experts, can improve at what they do, and there are essentially infinite strategies they could use. That said, I did include a large set of strategies (all the strategies which involve maintaining the secondary market), so while there are a staggering number of possible strategies, I did make a claim about a significant fraction of them. That's why I said I 'wasn't convinced,' instead of acting confident. "Not convinced" implies that I can be convinced. I am *not convinced* that the claim is true, but I am also not sure the claim is false. Ultimately, this isn't that important. I'd just prefer for you not to misrepresent me. That said, I understand why you read my reply in the way that you did; just, please be a bit more careful in the future. (I won't claim I never make mistakes like this, I certainly do sometimes) Third and finally, "the major issues of risk aversion" are a very bad point to bring up in this conversation, at least on your side of the argument. Remember, over the last few years, Wizards have been changing their business practices significantly. They have demonstrated that they are fine with risk, and, if they are doing well right now, they are doing well _because_ they have been taking risks. If Wizards shouldn't take risks, they should go back to acting as they did before recently, because that has been working well for them for decades, where these new methods are relatively untested. Let me repeat that: If being averse to taking risks is good for a company, than Wizards should not continue down the path they're currently on. Even with the point benefiting 'my side,' I take issue with the idea that companies and people should be adverse to risk in the first place - individual risks should be taken or not on the basis of risk/reward. That is, a risk should be taken if it advances the relevant set of goals in a mathematical sense,* and it should not be taken if it does not (in practice, while it would be ideal to use math for this analysis, that will often be impractical. This mathematically pure concept is the ideal, but isn't necessarily achievable; it's the thing that people should follow as best as they can). Because I don't think the point is correct, I will not use it myself. *where "the relevant set of goals" are set up such that e.g. going bankrupt is weighted as far more bad than losing the amount of money required to go bankrupt. That is, these are not naïve "make the most money possible" style goals that can lead to nonsense like a company taking a 99% chance to go bankrupt for the sake of a 1% chance to earn 10 trillion dollars (adjust the numbers until this example makes sense, perhaps $10 trillion is worth that kind of risk for some companies), they are goals that let the math speak the truth.

[@justintheblonde]

My buddy and I both bought a draft box each to actually draft with friends this coming weekend. I'll be honest though, it was hard to convince our friends to draft it with us though at this price point...

[@Larry.R]

Around the end of last year, I made a list of which Magic: The Gathering products I wanted to buy and the results are actually really surprising. One of the products on my list was DOUBLE MASTERS 2022, and yet I have not bought a single pack of it since it released. Gee, I wonder why that is... 🤔 Maybe because my local game store doesn't sell it because even they realize it's too expensive to carry. Or maybe it's because from my perspective, DOUBLE MASTERS 2022 doesn't seem worth it? So yeah, my local game store doesn't have DOUBLE MASTERS 2022. You know who in my town has DOUBLE MASTERS 2022? Yep, you guessed it, Walmart. So far I've resisted the temptation, but I don't know how much longer I can go without giving in. Individual packs of DOUBLE MASTERS 2022 are selling for about $22 CAD. That's a bit steep, isn't it? So price gouging aside, why else haven't I bought any DOUBLE MASTERS 2022? It's because...there's not really a lot of cards in the set to justify me wanting to buy any amount of it. The common slot looks particularly underwhelming. Kasmina's Transmutation? Own it. Doomed Traveler? How many copies of this do I have again? My point is, a lot of these cards are from more recent years, like 2016-now recent. You know which card Wizards SHOULD have put in this set? Steelshaper's Gift. That card is REALLY expensive! Especially if you get the foil version. And they could've upshifted it to RARE! But yeah, Wizards of the Coast just does what they want to do, while ignoring us. Because to them, we sound like a bunch of crying babies, and nobody likes to hear a baby cry.

[@MaxGideonActor]

You, sir, are 100% on the money correct. Thank you for voicing it.

[@mikotagayuna8494]

"Made for Draft" is the new Wizards code for "We don't intend to reprint much-needed reprints in any effective way." Screw draft. For once, just print the damn cards for the sole purpose of selling them to those who need them.

[@breawycker]

But that's what secret lairs are for! /j

[@chrispinchak1511]

Screw magic.... the new CCG is Sorcery.

[@CallumDark]

I'm really glad Flesh and Blood when they got rid of first edition, made Cold Foils appear in the token slot. So you basically just don't grab the cold foil card and sabotage your own draft: if you open your draft pack with a special card in the token slot you can keep it.

[@Wft-bu5zc]

Flesh and Blood does pull rates and pricing right (after the first couple sets anyway). You can have a lot of fun opening boxes without paying a ton of money. Pokemon used to be good too but has gotten worse over time. MTG is just the worst. I actually like Collector Booster Boxes when they're $180-190, I think they're worth that and a ton of fun, but when they're $300+ or only have 4 packs it's just not worth it.

[@imakethesites3048]

I can’t believe the price fluctuated even between writing the script and retrieving the screenshot

[@nbchowning]

This situation with double masters has really turned me off on Magic and has me considering selling my collection and just getting out. I love the cards and game but Wizards is just making it such a toxic buyer experience. I feel this way and I even have an amazing LGS that sells packs/boxes cheaper than everywhere else.

[@mjesus850]

If i was actually playing id literally just buy pre cons, or make decks. all this other shit is a literal scam

[@MichaelSuperbacker]

What is a LGS? I am new to Magic.

[@arridueldes5638]

@@MichaelSuperbacker local game store

[@Eric-bz2xj]

And like the Prof says, MTG is more popular than ever. Which means all their shitty cashgrabs and greed ramping up over the last few years has only been rewarded, so they will just keep doing it. I wouldn't recommend MTG to anyone these days. There is SO MUCH better entertainment value out there for your money. So many video games, card games, board games, etc that have so much love, creativity, and are a tiny fraction of the cost of a single MTG deck.

[@thebluewizardofdetroit]

I bought a set of double masters and while I was not disappointed with the cards ( I am a new player and it allowed me to get a lot of cards I didn't have access to) I am not a fan because they price I paid did not match the price drop of all the cards. Even though it was an expensive set, all the cards I got dropped off a cliff in value.

[@codysorenson4298]

I would love to see MSRP brought back. I look at the premium sets from last year Time Spiral and Modern Horizons 2 had great reprints and the price per pack was like under $7 for TS and about $10 for MH2. So why does this set cost so much

[@billdoetsch]

Because they scattered it with a predominance of chase cards at mythic instead of spreading them out to other sets- and then also stuffed the set full of bulky stuff. So the EV of the box goes up when you have 70-150$ hits, but the value of an individual pack can be something like 50 cents. Basically the variance in value is huge.

[@codysorenson4298]

@@billdoetsch MH2 and time spiral both had high end chase cards. Yes wizards is good at putting bulk mythics and rares in sets.

[@HatBoyConnie]

you want MSRP back, write or call your local state representative. Demand MSRP to be required of items sold in the US like it is in most other countries.

[@Hidan22]

WOTC is a piece of sh*t. I hope the people responsible get fired and become homeless.

[@Bloodfire83]

I've been preaching that WotC has been grooming players to pay more ever since the very first Masters set came out years ago with a premium price. I still refuse to buy them and get frustrated when other people do because it was obvious where this road was heading. These premium prices are insanely hypocritical, allowing WotC to have all of the benefits of the secondary market while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge it, which screws over the consumer. There is a reason the laws WotC keeps skirting exist.

[@jeremymajors8982]

Which laws are you referring to? I am very curious about this.

[@Bloodfire83]

@@jeremymajors8982Gambling laws. The second WotC acknowledges some cards are worth more than others, booster packs become lottery tickets and all the baggage that comes with gambling regulations follow. For years WotC has very carefully avoided referring to the prices of the secondary market, while also milking it as hard as possible.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

Proxy. Proxy proxy proxy. It would be nice to see these affordable, but until then, support your flgs and proxy the insanity.

[@PestOnYT]

You are right. It is ripping off people. That's why I decided - after many years of buying MTG products - to end it. No more boxes, packs nor singles. If prices should return to an acceptable level I rejoin. But, I decided to not purchase any WtoC products for 1 year, regardless of price. It should teach them some lesson, if enough people would join me.

[@wad_Mr.J]

Love the full beard... I know you're an intellectual, but this look says I may also like to throw axes while drinking with friends.

[@SFTortoise]

For low budget players like me, it has been hard for me to grab a box. The good thing is that singles prices are dropping. But not by much. I can't afford the box or a pack. Sadly this set is something I would love to get a box of- but I am priced out of the game.

[@seson1615]

I think most of the stuff falls back on rudimentary economics they know what their customer base is willing to pay if they know how much they need to make they reach a conclusion they make a certain amount and they sell at a price that they want to sell it it's quite simple

[@girlhunter2102]

People gave me flack for wanting nothing to do with this set and you know I’m happier without it. $330 can get you a good start in Warhammer.

[@danacoleman4007]

😂😂😂 Great post! Very funny!

[@ferelpuma]

Most companies that are beholden to shareholders will eventually destroy itself. You cannot get unlimited growth, and Hasbro is definitely attempting to do so.

[@Dolphgrim]

Here's my take: In every set you can see the dichotomy between the 'value' team and the 'draft experience' team, both of which play a major role in establishing both initial--and long term-- excitement/demand for their given set. In this set in particular, the line between the two is more blatant than ever, which could possibly be a result of any number of issues (not excluding too many sets released in too short a time with not enough staff). If the draft wasn't a factor here, the top down, value focussed approach might have been able to shine a little brighter (esp. at this price point). If the value wasn't a factor, the draft aspect may have created a more 'bottom up' developmental environment in which value could have been crafted more organically. As it is, I don't think WOTC had enough time to consider the latter, and likely pulled cards from other sets (Sensei's Top, Mana Vault and Dockside from NEO, SNC, and CLB respectively) to match a predetermined, corporate-established price point. I refuse to believe that the art pieces on the cards mentioned were not commissioned for those newer sets as they are the only random homages to their sets' respective art-style. Also, if I want to take off my small tinfoil hat to put on my even larger tinfoil hat, I'd say somebody at WOTC is sending us a (perhaps penitent) subliminal message on the Dockside flavor text which reads, "It's just business". And this, folks, is why I went to college to get a BA in philosophy. 🤣🤣🤣

[@PhoenixRNH]

Mana Vault will never be in Standard

[@Dolphgrim]

@@PhoenixRNH 1. It doesn't actually have to be in standard for it to be in standard packs 2. Who actually knows what WOTC is willing to do at this point with their game to sell packs?

[@frostasaurus2190]

Holy damn moly I'm loving the beard arc

[@krim7]

My friend bought a collector box of double masters. He was *so excited* he thought he was going to pull so much value and great cards. He got a full art Imperial Seal and everything else were bulk rares. He was DEVASTATED. He spent hundreds of dollars on this box and he was burned, badly, by it.

[@EliyaSelhub]

Buying sealed product is always a gamble, but that gambling is fun at $4 a pack. At these prices it's just predatory.

[@MaxGideonActor]

@@EliyaSelhub 100% correct. Predatory gambling.

[@oblivion45602]

My only comment beyond the points you made was that the card stock was abysmal. You were expected to deface Cryptic Spires but the card didn't even absorb Sharpie ink.

[@belethorofthegeneralgoodss348]

I bought one pack of double masters, got two rares that didnt add up to £1 and 4 duplicates

[@rigged08]

Yeah and even the cards themselves just are not even that playable

[@arrowstrike1174]

If I ever get boxes, it's normally for the thrill of opening packs than it is for monetary value. And when I buy boxes, I look for the cheapest.

[@veginito9927]

Honestly we should all boycott a prerelease or something, not all just one and push back a little. But it's easier to heard cats

[@helxeen2607]

I was looking forward to Double Masters but never gotten the chance at opening a booster. Like as soon they came out a few days latter just gone. So at this point I am only looking forward to the Warhammer commander decks and maybe it for me. I am sad to say it really that's where magic has been going for me lately. :/

[@FgtRtd]

This is why I purchase high quality proxies of all the most expensive cards in the set out of spite lol I'm not going to let their glutenous greed stop me from having them 🤷‍♂️ don't really care what anyone says either.. ive been playing magic for decades and if prices weren't blatantly predatory I'd pay full price like I always have. I could purchase a damn Ferrari for what I've spent on wotc's cardboard over the years I don't owe them shit

[@dutchtekradio]

340- .. you can buty a second hand car for that price, one that actualy still works

[@anthonydelfino6171]

As a commander player, over the past 4-ish years I have moved further and further into just proxying decks. I started with proxying staple cards I own one of so I wouldn't have to move the card from deck to deck to deck to play with it, to then saying that I was okay with quirky expensive reserved list cards were okay to proxy since I know they'll never be made more affordable; that quickly came to being okay with proxying cards that are expensive because of Wizard's terrible reprint policies to now being fine with just proxying the entire deck. It's products like this that dangle the carrot of maybe lower prices on game pieces you might want that were part of what drove me to it. I feel back for my local store since it does mean I buy a lot less product than I used to. But if Magic product starts to suffer more and more from players like myself, then perhaps that pressure from local stores will find its way back up to Wizards so they start to loosen their positions on things like this.

[@NuronAtren]

i pulled imperial seal and mana vault single pack.

[@disneynerdschannel]

I was excited about this set but discouraged by the price. I normally purchase at least a full box of product but because of the price, I bought just a few packs of draft just to see what it looked like. They lost out on my money - not that they care.

[@disneynerdschannel]

So true! Double rates for three times the price is already a rip off, but to add insult to injury to have worthless and useless cares / mythic makes it even more of a rip off

[@susyewest5288]

you look old

[@shawnknapp1968]

I am always interested in masters type sets simply because I enjoy cracking pack even though I know it does not make the most economic sense. At this price point, I would rather buy another box of Time Spiral Remastered. I think that's an example of a masters set done correctly.

[@catorgy2785]

Personally I don't care about double masters because I not spending my money on it but I'm happy that it's reprints because the prices of alot of the older cards that I wanted to use is going down and I have a reason to get back into magic and play with friends I haven't played with for near half a decade

[@KingLoki187]

I wanted to get more DM2022 but the price.

[@nyanpasu4060]

I'm at the point where I'll only build decks in formats they can't over-monetize in like pauper and archaic.

[@whyamihere2k]

As a person who mainly plays yugioh, hearing that packs are going for 20$ each is obscene to me. How can they possibly justify charging that much for cardboard? I'd love to get into magic but it just seems utterly impenetrable for paper play to a person on a budget

[@keenansutherland2776]

yo prof, i LOVE your beard rn

[@Prince_Smugarina]

Professor.... is it on purpose? You're looking like a young Urza before he grayed out with that beard you're rockin.

[@elijahdprophet]

I preordered a box before spoilers for $240 and I haven't opened it yet. I used to love opening packs and this set seemed like it might be really fun, but your first point has me thinking that i may be better off flipping this thing sealed for a profit and just buying singles.

[@enleteli]

Oh yes, just take the investment and Get the singles...

[@WilhalmBrion]

“Because it’s all working as intended.” Keep being vocal prof.

[@Orinn000]

I opened 2 collector's boosters from this set. The second contained Borderless Teferi's Protection, and a foil borderless Teferi's Protection. And thought to myself, "In any other set, this would be an amazing pull. Here, it was $80 wasted." I knew I wouldn't be opening a lot of this product, but I expected the excitement to last longer than 2 Collector Boosters.

[@NeverDauntedRadioNetwork]

So we have to acknowledge that this particular battle is lost. Wizards cares more about the Rudys of the world than the Professors. Why? Because they know the value for their cardboard is not in "game pieces" but rather in cases of unopened booster boxes. The landscape is now designed so that there is GUARANTEED more value in an unopened lootbox than in the actual cards inside. It's a speculators market ONLY at this point. It is also the way to recognize the secondary market without recognizing the secondary market, which almost no other businesses do, because it's fucking lunacy in the long term. Part of me feels like Hasbro sees this and is squeezing as much money as they can out of whales before the bottom falls out and they sell WOTC whole cloth. Of course that won't happen until they exploit the IP as far as it will go. We've got a D&D movie coming, and at some point, we'll also have that Magic movie they've been threatening us with for years which is certain to upset everyone who watches. So at this point, I say "fuck'em" BUY PROXIES. Let's take Richard Garfield's game back to the tables and fucking play, even with elaborately produced proxies. Sure it will fuck up the meta in glorious ways, but we don't need Hasbro's sanction to enjoy what is still an amazing game. Let Rudy and the speculators choke on their inventory and claim that $370 sets of cardboard are not being sold expensively enough. Let them live in the land of loot boxes. Let's just play Magic.

[@nclark109]

Initially, when I first heard that Double Masters was returning, as someone who missed the first one, I was thrilled! Unfortunately, buying a box for draft was literally so expensive, it was actually CHEAPER TO BUY THE COLLECTORS than it was to buy the draft! I was flabbergasted and ended up doing the same that Tolarian did and bought 4 collectors, because I play the box game too: if it pays for itself, I’ll buy another one. Unfortunately, out of 16 packs I pulled 8 borderless Coiling Oracles that are worth Bok and only got lucky a couple of times with Mana Vault or Cavern of Souls. There were also 5 borderless Spell Pierce. How many duplicates of cards worth barely anything do I have to get before I get something worth anything? I am rather disappointed with the rares as well, interesting but most that I got were worth less than the cost to even list and sell them so what’s the point? Honestly disappointed in DM 2022.

[@OfficialMagisto]

Bought two draft booster packs and the only useful card I cracked was a rampant growth which I already have tons of. Also got no cards over $2. Definitely not worth the $34 I spent on the two packs. Honestly the worst pack opening experience of my life.

[@S1L3NTDr460n]

One of the most insulting things I think is that someone asked Mark Rosewater on his blog why masters sets are so much, and he replied that they have different consumer bases, and they need to make products for them, that collector boosters and master sets are for whales. And that right there is what I call bullshit on. Yes, collector/VIP boosters ARE for whales. And I have zero problem with them existing, and costing premium prices. What is bullshit, however, is him lobbing Master Sets in with them as "whale products". No. They are NOT. The ENTIRE point of reprint sets is to reprint needed cards, to make them more accessible. The entire thesis of the original modern masters was "to make modern more accessible". Reprint sets are the PINNACLE of "for the general public". Sure, 2x2 collector boosters can cost $80 a pack and give whales the juice they want, that's perfectly fine. But the bare minimum baseline cards, the game pieces in the DRAFT packs, should be affordable to the people who literally just want to play the GAME. THAT is SUPPOSED to be for the "rest of them", NOT the whales. But Mark Rosewater just considers bare minimum game pieces as "whale only" products, confirmed in his blog. Trust me, anyone who is doing so well off and has so much expendable income that they can afford to spend almost $400 on 24 packs of DRAFT booster, DIDN'T NEED THE REPRINTS. Let me say that again: Anyone who can afford to buy draft packs of 2x2, DIDN'T NEED IT TO EXIST.

[@RandomCommenter955]

THIS. Minecraft, StarCraft (an especially strategic game that is the internet age's creation akin to chess), are all 1 time purchases of $30, guaranteed value, and eternal support. You can spend $30 in magic, and you're not even guaranteed $10 of value and likely wont get it. Even if you do, cashing out of cards often costs 40% of their value. This is why I play Penny Dreadful (a MTGO unofficial magic format with a fantastic community, prize support, and frequent tournaments and leagues all of which are FREE). Why would I ever even buy into a tier modern deck when modern horizons will always just power creep my deck completely. And all of those chase cards are of course, mythic. The average American had like $500-$1000 in savings, and that was before covid hit. I believe it's even lower now, as while those stimulus checks helped they were spent quickly by anyone laid off or struggling to survive. But go ahead wotc, keep increasing the paywall and lowering accessibility to your game. People will just continue to learn that proxying and cheaper formats are the way to go. If you own a deck of $60 cards, or a commander deck with cards costing $100s, do you really want to risk shuffling those up? Why, when you can just use an equally good proxy. And if you cant afford the game? Why not just proxy. That's exactly how paper legacy survives to this day.

[@derkcast620]

Great Video Prof. I'm sorry to say when it comes to MTG - I'm out! not done, but in terms of FNM collecting, regular buying, drafting i'm done. i have found that the Flesh and Blood product respects me as a customer more. I've been playing every Monday at a LGS and having a great time. we are playing Commoner this Monday. Commons! LOL remember how low it took WOTC to recognize Pauper as a format?!

[@WeaponXYZ]

Would love if value was brought back to draft pack with meaningful reprints but still kept it's 4$ MSRP or 6-7$ if premium but those days are long gone and not coming back. WotC will just continue this trend of seeking profits just cause they can and people will buy it. The funny part is Double Masters 2022 wasn't the biggest letdown for me but Neon Dynasty. I love playing Samurai and was so hyped for the new samurai cards thinking they will be strong but as they released my hype turned into disappointment upon seeing they turned them into exalted..

[@subtracks]

If Commander is the most popular format and it is a casual format, why do people feel the need to purchase products from WOTC? Essential Game Pieces can be printed at lower prices by players, including through third party sources, with no repercussion (proxies). Commander is not a tournament or prize format that would require WOTC official printed materials. You are in control of how you play the game. Of course I don't want the company to go bankrupt because I want them to continue to create new cards for the game, but as Prof discussed, this pricing is over the top. If the play base en-masse decided to start printing their own cards and declined to purchase these obscenely costed sets, what would be the result? Would it change WOTC pricing strategy? Destroy LGSs? Create another market for non-WOTC printers/distributers? Legal implications? I'm not sure, but I believe it is possible that WOTC is creating more problems for the game and themselves. Hope the profits are worth it.

[@JPVersus_]

I thought about buying a pack (ONE PACK) of 2X2 Collector's booster, but I remembered I live in Brazil and they're going for 440 bucks (FOUR HUNDRED AND FOURTY BRAZIL BUCKS)

[@nichmiller4251]

I'm just going to wait for the WptCPrime+ subscription. Guaranteed 24mo shipping on Secret Lairs, one draft booster pack a month, and downloadable cosmetic for a banned card in Arena for $399.95/year?! Yes please!!

[@Mutch-hl7jy]

I'm not hidding it that I'm buying high quality proxies of cards that have pathetic market prices. I say : To bad for WotC, I spend my money elsewhere, money they could have earned instead. WotC is abusing the current situation in my opinion. The reserved list, low reprints, overall scarcity. There have been so many thoughtful suggestions given on how WotC could solve alot of these issues and still earn tons of money without affecting for example marketprices for collectors. Yet, they refuse to give in for the continiously growing playerbase. I vote with my wallet and buy fake cards at 1/10 of the market prices and still play and enjoy the game with my friends and other players at my LGS.

[@Wrestlemania24444]

This is why I wish we all would stand united and stop buying Magic products. Unofficial tournaments only with proxys, everyone proxys everything for all formats, and we all stop playing arena and mtgo. We need to tank Wizards magic profits. Then they'll either listen or kill Magic, which would be PR suicide.