Creating your own DnD Pantheon - Dungeon Master Tips

[@j_honrubia]

1:40 Involved vs. Dispassionate Pantheon 3:06 Creation Myth 4:50 Singular vs. Multiple Pantheon 6:35 Different names for same gods problem 8:25 Hierarchy 10:36 God area of focus 11:15 Gods relationships 13:08 Gods powers 14:53 Champions 15:20 Symbols of gods 17:16 Colours of gods 18:00 Weapon of choice 18:39 Gods manifestations 20:00 Pantheon rules 20:55 Notable events 21:30 Gods role in campaign 23:50 Guy's house rule for God help 25:50 Cults

[@JacobGrim]

"He wasn't the hero we deserved, but the hero we needed"

[@TheStartrek99]

The gods in my setting were previously very active in the setting, something that resulted in a massive inter-species war, but are now absent for reasons unknown to the population of my setting. The reason the gods are no longer actively involved in the lives of their worshipers is because they're fighting a defensive war at the edge of the solar system against an invasion of Lovecraftian gods and demigods.

[@Twisted_Logic]

With regards to the "multiple names for the same god" thing, I always liked the way The Elder Scrolls series did it. Each culture has its own version of the same pantheon of cosmic forces/concepts, but each interpretation is effectively its own god. Kynarteh is not Kyne is not Y'ffre and all behave completely differently, but they are all aspects of a central Nature/Sky god.

[@WardancerHB]

this!

[@PoftSarade]

Not to mention the fun stories that come from something like akatosh/auriel/alduin.

[@EJDubbz]

Agreed, but what percentage of players ever pay attention to those distinctions. Heck, Bethesda themselves don't always pay attention. Skyrim was just copy paste imperial pantheon, we get only hints of the Nord pantheon.

[@Lenny-ue8hk]

I prefer semi-involved gods. It's not like they don't care but they only occasionally show up if it's worth their time. Not an absentee father, but not a stay at home dad either. More like a divorced dad you only get to see every second weekend

[@linus4d1]

Lenny Lynch i like the idea of gods being involved if the character invokes them, pleases them, or upsets them. Otherwise, they just rather ignore the morals

[@linus4d1]

Mortals

[@nyankers]

I like Gods who are actual people, like Greek Gods. No single person, no matter how powerful, can attend to every single worshipper, nor would they frankly want to. They'd want to follow their own agendas, and those agendas might be completely selfish like "boning as many hot women as I can," "research the fabric of magic and reality," or "pretend to be a mortal and go on awesome adventures."

[@DarkTravelerProductions]

I personally like using favored animals for my deities. It helps distinguish them in another way and adds more symbolism.

[@Jason-96]

The Beck animals. .. thanks for the tip

[@DekuOfPower]

I am a paladin of Desk Tablelamp, and I am here to smite those heathens who dare refer to my lord as "Dandelion"

[@ghosturiel]

As a Cleric of Tablelamp, I find the idea of people creating their own false pantheons offensive.

[@mileseximius]

ghosturiel such a silly god for such a silly people. Dandelion is the only one of his kind, no matter how lesser races misinterpret him

[@kyleabrams5036]

"I love lamp! I.. love carpet" That'd be a interesting role play, dump int and just get access to weather type domains. Use a trident and hand grenade equivalent.

[@jamestown8398]

Desk Tablelamp demands the blood of apostates!

[@dubuyajay9964]

Are you in Daleport?

[@brianbucklein315]

I would love to see you flesh out a pantheon in a For Your Consideration. Maybe the one that was involved in the Stationery War! :-)

[@tamar7065]

"[A pantheon is] basically just a whole bunch of very horny people who have lots of power and a lot of time in which to do nothing." I think you just boiled mythology down to its bare essentials

[@robertabarnhart6240]

In the Middle ages, they had a system where the 7 heraldic colors corresponded to the 7 (known) heavenly bodies. If I remember correctly, it was: Sun = yellow/gold Moon = white/silver Mercury = blue Venus = green Mars = red Jupiter = purple Saturn = black

[@Parker8752]

I picked up a pretty awesome book from Kevin Crawford (the chap who made such games as Godbound and Stars Without Number) recently. One thing I like about his games is that he often provides lots of system agnostic tools for GMs, like the faction mechanics in Stars Without Number. This book, Lexicon of the Throne, is no exception. It's a supplement for Godbound, but it gives a really good set of tools for randomly generating cosmologies and religions, which takes a lot of the work out of creating your own unique settings. I only mention it because it might be useful for folks who found this video interesting.

[@syk2973]

Just bought that book you mentioned (Lexicon) and already i can see how useful it is. Thank you for your reccomerdraston

[@bianchijonathan6818]

Having different names for the same deity, and by extension, having multiple religions worshipping the same deity brings the question : "who worships the god the right way ?" Thus a good amout of holy wars, and conflits that exist even now in our own world. I wouldn't ignore this particular option so easily in an RP space, as it bring interesting stories.

[@matthewbromley6600]

I know this is two years after the vid was made but I’m working on becoming a DM and this is SO HELPFUL. Thank you

[@steamtasticvagabond474]

There are a few points that I would like to bring up that Guy hasn’t brought up. The first of these being the difference between perception and truth. Take for instance this idea: a robed figure appearing at the birth of every god. The masses believe the robed figure to be a god of protection who watches over the infantile deities to protect them from harm. However, in actuality, the robed figure only appeared to mark the deity for death stating that the robed figure will be the only to eventually slay the gods. If there is a strong difference between belief and truth that could create interesting adventures as the players witness an avatar of let’s call him Servitoth brutally murdering the avatar of another god. It also creates a potential gameplay quirk as Servitoth is capable of granting a Death domain to his clerics, none of whom actually know about it however. Another point I would like to bring up is the use of Lovecraftian type gods. In essence, it would be similar to the point stated above, but a little more in theme with cosmic horror. Take for instance, a temple built near the coast devoted to Poseidon, occasionally the temple would receive a sign of their prayers being answered, but unbeknownst to any of them, that which they believe to be Poseidon the god of oceans, is actually the Great Old One Cthulhu and the answers to their prayers come from within the Great One’s slumber in R’lyeh. This becomes significant in a world with involved gods as what humanity sees as a potentially benevolent divine being is actually an ancient alien being that is more than capable of destroying the world should they be risen. This creates more interesting story possibilities as players come to uncover the true natures of the pantheon being that if an uncaring deity that is only involved in the lives of mortals by sheer happenstance, an uncover what will happen should the worship be continued.

[@Corati]

One god I usually have in cosideration is Death itself. I usually use the clasic death, a tall skelleton with a scythe, like the one in discword. Esencially is a being that incarnates such aspect. But recently i found a way to make it more interesting, because the players are suposed to go search Death in order to know how to kill something in the adventure. Well, I make death a character, personality, memories, etc.. But it only can "live" in a body that is dying. Only one person dies at a time, but sometimes death comes that fast to a bunch of people that in our perception we can say that they died at the same time. My players have said that is quite interesting having Death itself constantly dying, and they are having so much trouble figuring a way to "sumon" Death that is has become an arch of the campaign itself. Im just letting this to whoever wants to try a different version of gods, away from the Zeuslike versions. Sorry for my english, is not my mother language.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

I occasionally craft a version of "Death" as the "Ethereal Usher"... Kind of a pale, scrawny guy who just guides you to your proper place. He has a tall staff, but the thing on top is a "spiritualistic indicator" that pulls and points the way... OR sometimes it's just a big lamp... lighting the way through the spirit world(s) to final planes or resting places... The whole thing is usually pretty funny. Everyone looking for a grim reaper or some other awful undeathly variant, and then THE Death shows up, "Nope, those things are monsters... You're just looking for little ol' me." ;o)

[@adakahless]

I figure Death is the only god. One that favors no one. He is friends to those who accept their ultimate fate.

[@AceTaxiaGaming]

copyandpaste505 the talk of death and your profile pic are worrying

[@dubuyajay9964]

I mean when the symbol of the Grim Reaper from mainly monotheistic Europe was imported to Japan it was turned into a god of death by the mostly polytheistic Japanese people.

[@Eddrian32]

I think a way to do the "same god different names" bit is to introduce them as a part of separate pantheons, and then have the players find out later (or not at all) that they're the same. I think it can be done, but like you said front loading the players with that information can create confusion.

[@Lenny-ue8hk]

#AllPraiseDeskTableLamp

[@MrUmakemelaff]

So...Pixar?

[@sausijj3294]

I'm doing a pantheon where their involvement starts out non interested for the whole world, but are involved for the PCs and only through a select few gods, not all gods. Leading to a Gods in machinations kind of game. Its big fun and allows the PCs to influence the world through a ot device that usually dictates rather than reciprocate.

[@dreddbolt]

Even though there's only 9 widely known gods in my pantheon, I'm still in the process of crafting them. I want to properly homebrew 1 domain each to further distinguish them.

[@Jason-96]

I am creating a pantheon for my campaign world. I've done the hierarchy style with three high gods followed by nine low gods. So far so good, but i still have only done about half of what you suggested. Thank you for doing this. It's really helped.

[@reaperaktual8498]

In my games I use the idea that gods stop aging once they ascend to godhood. Anyone can become a god. The Immortal Incarnations book series is a favorite that I draw a lot of inspiration from when designing my pantheons.

[@marcelosilveira2276]

I like to divide my timeline into phases, so there will be a "mythical age" at the begining of time, when the gods interceeded with the mortal world directly, they would come down as avatars, personaly interact with things etc, then some big event happened that made the gods stop intervening directly, it could be an internal rule, or it could be a divine condition, a magical barrier of some kind, and so starts the "heroic age", in which the gods' magic still flow into the characters' world, people are born "touched by the divine" and so on. With time, it decreases, and eventually the world sink into the "classical age", the gods still comunicate to clerics through dreams, listen to their requests and conceide magic to their followers, but there are no longer divine characters walking the world. This may or may not coincede with a decrease of monsters or not. Finally the world enters the "modern age" or something of the like, when even the clerics lose contact with their gods. The fate may still exist, specially if big events happened in the past involving it, but even the clerics see their gods more like metaphors than actual beings. This is basically for "in our world" kind of games, but it could actually be set in a fantasy scenario were the player's characters are one of many (or not) groups trying to figure out what happened, why aren't the gods answering anymore? is it possible to fix it? can the players re-open the channel between them and the gods? Well, I believe it makes for quite an interesting scenario when along multiple campaigns the players realize they are actually playing the same scenario but in different times.

[@wizzarin424]

I was DM on one campaign, where one of the players was a half elf. Her mother was an elf and her dad was the god of the elves.. And I gave her a special Bow. But I did not tell her she was a Demigod (half god). When she rolled up her character she figured out her hit points and so forth, but I kept secret her REAL Hit points. She didn't realize that she was a demigod until a fireball exploded with Mega Force and should have killed her by a lot had she had been human (she almost started to tear up her character sheet). Then I revealed her real hit points, and more understanding of just who she was. It was a wonderful campaign Having a Demigod discovering what their power are.

[@dubuyajay9964]

The other players weren't cross she was a demigod and they weren't?

[@wizzarin424]

@@dubuyajay9964 No I have a feeling they figured it out for awhile; she on the other hand didn't dawn on her of what she was. Since the blast would have killed her for sure, I think they where glad that her character was saved. AND now they had a demigod in the party to help was also a bonus to them.

[@gr1mace717]

This is wonderful. Thank you! I have referred your channel with enthusiasm to many others.

[@ladymecha8718]

I still use Primal Order as an aid for my fantasy gods and goddesses. It has a very good system for divinity level, making them powerful but still flawed. How players could become gods, which take centuries. It was made by Wizards of the Coast in the 1990s before they bought TSR (aka D&D). Stormbringer by Chaosium had a system of Elan, which was accumulative brownie points, that helped on a Deity to to intercede to a Character’s prayer and sometimes death. Like your 1% roll rule, but add the Elan points at 1 per % by spending them to that role. Elan was given by doing acts appropriate to the service of the deity you believed in.

[@autumncaraway3383]

Yes please do a video on building your own pantheon. I neeeeeed it

[@HebaruSan]

On the gender question, yes the Greeks had Hera and Ares, but they also had Athena, Artemis, and Cupid. I would use that to argue against making a pantheon make "too much sense" -- rather than fitting into just the neat little boxes you would expect, it's more interesting when a deity provokes some surprise and thought about why they are the way they are.

[@HebaruSan]

Also, googling those names reminded me that it was rare for them to be reduced to the god-of-one-thing. Many were associated with multiple domains (wisdom and law and warfare, hunting and virginity), which can tell you how their worshippers thought about the relationships between those things *and* add further complexity to their personalities.

[@Elyseon]

They were also batshit crazy and downright evil, so trying to give them D&D style alignments to make them seem like a diverse pantheon fails miserably.

[@knightwolf4612]

A good alternate system to consider for reading about Deities and Pantheon, is Exalted Series. The Book: The Books of Sorcery, Vol. IV: The Roll of Glorious Divinity I: Gods & Elementals, does quite well in explaining such things.

[@kirose]

I like the option of the Gods Wanting to involve themselves, but being unable to. Something prevents them, such as a pact with the other gods. If they all ignored it, their disagreements and goals would destroy the world in quick order. So they watch, and from time to time, one will toe the line.

[@saint13harrop65]

Great advice, I loved the video. You always have the best advice on KZbin.

[@EJDubbz]

This is pretty good advice for any NPC that is way more powerful than PCs. I think I'll follow a lot of it for dragons in my game.

[@tmantheawesome22]

I love this channel, it's given me so many ideas for things to do. One question I have though is, how do you start a campaign? Like how do you usually get the characters together to start an adventure? Do you just start them at an inn and tell them their objective, or maybe have them meet each other and hopefully group up?

[@innocentowlbear3223]

I like the idea of making one or two deities into faceted lore where each race worships them inder a different name, a different face, and their tales of such of a deity all differ slightly. I think this creates a nice story about finding the truth and learning the real identity of this other worldly entity of great power. But I didn't agree that if this technique was used too frequently it would create a tidal wave of unnecessary lore that would turn a player off to lore hunting.

[@alexandercross9081]

I like the concept of Races of Gods, like the Norse had

[@caolanochearnaigh9804]

There is one character that I love, and he follows my favorite god that I have created. The character is a Chaotic/Good male Fallen Aasimar named Arséne, who is against corrupt authority, and is revered as a symbol of rebellion and justice. In fact, some people believe that he is the physical manifestation of Vindictus, the god of justice and vengeance. Vindictus's alternate names are: The Guy, The Vengeful One and The Dark Messiah. Arséne calls on Vindictus only in the most grave circumstances. His spirit cannot be broken by anything, but on the extremely rare occasions where he is almost defeated, Vindictus blesses him with a small bit of his power, usually only 1% of it. And when he does, Arséne comes crashing down on his enemies with the force of a nuclear bomb. As for personality, Arséne of course has the Folk Hero background, and he will do anything for the common people. TL;DR I turned one of the guys from Persona 5 into a DND character, and turned the Disturbed mascot into a god.

[@Fragacide]

Damn, GM... You're always popping up with the right video just as I'm designing a new campaign. This one has my players fighting to stop a tyrannical council from becoming gods and will ultimately end up with them becoming gods themselves, and I needed to be able to fill in the rest of the pantheon that they don't make up. How do you do this? Do you have a spy at my game shop?

[@larsdahl5528]

It was either: A random coincidence. Or: Divine intervention. ... Your choice ... Same same but different ... One thing is coincidence with youtube videos, another is coincidence with the players... The latter is the toughest to get! Do you have a feeling that your players will run off for to smoke giggle weed while saying "hummm" for to connect them selves to the cosmic energies?

[@Ssatkan]

Fun fact: The creator deity is usually not the ruling deity. That stands to reason, because the gods of creation are either crafters (Ptah) or unlikeable primordial forces (Titans), which don't care about mortals, because that's what nature does, while the deity of nobility is the ruling deity (Zeus or Ra). In most mythologies there was a change in management since creation. Plus dismemberment.

[@CrazyShepard]

Wow, I've never been this early without disappointing someone.

[@noahholderman5725]

Andrew Swart The only time he comes early is when he's with a girl. Just marvelous.

[@ThorsShadow]

Andrew, I think we all got that joke. Still, thanks captain obvious.

[@noahholderman5725]

ThorsShadow I was degrading him, not explaining a self evident joke.

[@starshade7826]

Eh, in spite of your suggestion about gods with multiple names I am inclined to let it fly due to historical reasons. Interpretatio Romanorum was convinced that Odin was the same as Mercurius for some reason. Etc. It may cause confusion at the game table, but that is only because it also caused confusion historically. ha ha ha.

[@skyline8176]

Even though I’m pretty sure they did have a goddess of birth, Zeus was the true god of birth

[@illumstern8831]

Somewhat ironically, that fell to Artemis. Hera was also considered a goddess of childbirth. Then, if you want to get really specific and esoteric, there was EILEITHYIA (Ilithyia), goddess of childbirth and labour pains.

[@janto6245]

I think there is another thing to say, most gods in our world had more than one task, sometiemes these task seem to be random or contradicting, but there was always an explanation in form of a story, like Persephone a greek godess of death and fertility. This was because she was the daughter of Demeter and became the wife of hades, with has its own short story behind it. I think this gives the godes personalety and makes it easier to remember the gods and their relations with each other.

[@dubuyajay9964]

01:40 For a Twist, how about taking a page from the Futurama Episode where Bender met God? Where God tricked the pretty amoral Bender into taking a more active role in the universe by posing as a inactive God, but was "acting" by convincing mortals to take action themselves.

[@Darkraggs]

In a campaign I started recently I set it up so the party is in an empire that is a theocracy with a slightly inclusive pantheon. The current head of the pantheon is also the emperor and secretly a trickster god of ambition. He played the game of thrones and won, with Bahamut being second by popularity and the rest of the major gods not having much interest in leading an empire. The opposing pantheon is composed of the demon lords and Tiamat

[@LightingInvoker]

Took over a page of notes. Yay

[@sparrowhawk4641]

What if I change the names just slightly to make it more language like? Like I have the city of Brache that’s an orc city and has a very guttural sound that the humans of that region call Varse because they lack the letter b and that harsh Scottish ch while all the other humans and elves cal it barse while all the other races call it Brac. Or the goddess Owula that in the islands is still called Owula but others may call her Wula or Ulaa . It’s more of an accent thing but I think it helps diversifying the various languages ...

[@bronzecobra8556]

I plan on adding celestial paragons to one of my campaigns who serve a monotheistic deity. Any advice?

[@thomasrobinson9148]

he’s got hands like the swedish chef

[@Rednave69]

So In my world is kind of a blend of different gods and same gods but different name. For example the Elves, Dragonkin, and Humans each have a god of war but each are different names, different worshiping rituals and was a source of conflict. I say was because in my campaigns history the empire upon conquering these people created a "Unified Pantheon" taking gods and aspect from each cultures gods and bringing together a common faith for these diverse people to worship. So you have this unified set of gods (god of love, god of war) but it then has this nice historical background when the party goes to a ancient elvish ruin and see references to some old god. The biggest example is that the Unified Pantheon's God of War has a knighthood of Paladins devoted to him, however the main influence for this god was taken from the Human's ancient pantheon where he was not a benevolent god.

[@danepatton2252]

I love the little bit of shade he throws at 16:58 where he says "You don't want your players worshipping the gods you made up, you'd need to write at least one book first"

[@rashkavar]

Drowning a water god in a non-water liquid might be surprisingly difficult. Liquids are relatively rare, and most of the easily accessible ones are water based. (Vinegar, for example, is water with a bit of a chemical called acetic acid in it (oddly, it's called that even when in a solid form where it's not technically an acid because there's no water).) But as GM, you can decide how true to real world chemistry you want to be - maybe vinegar is just a liquid in that universe. Or maybe the non-water molecules mixed with the water somehow interfere with the gods water control abilities. Or maybe the players need to find a currently erupting volcano or tar pit to drown him in, if they found the capturing process too easy.

[@Darkwintre]

Currently running a Cleric of a Knowledge domain faith. Being elvish went with Sehanine Moonbow using an alias of Kestra as the setting I was playing in had previously used Star Trek characters as gods thus I went with Deanna Troi's deceased sibling. MY DM is going through the Critical Role obsession and my chosen deity is Trickster domain only apparently. Ended up creating Kestra as a Lantern Archon in service to Sehanine Moonbow, but not got very far beyond that. Currently establishing shrines to my character's deity in every settlement my character travels through explained as establishing tethers to my character's feywild refuge an abandoned temple to Kestra located in the Feywild. My character had been banished by a foe and because she hadn't established tethers to her Refuge there she and her Refuge was extricated from the prime material world her family is located on and is now slowly recovering on another world. This is where she is desperately attempting to find a way to check on her grandson currently in the care of a family friend after the deaths of his parents at the apparent orders of the same foe that banished her. I'm tinkering with the idea of making Kestra a God of Travel and is part of the Celestial Bureaucracy that are the Archons who serve all of the deities (I'm assuming Primary deities, but we're talking those that use Celestial Archons after all) so a minor deity in service to Sehanine Moonbow, but part of the Celestial Bureaucracy which keeps me thinking of the Eastern version not so sure of the Western equivalent to be honest.

[@jeremiahtorres9984]

In regards to each race calling the same God a different name, I would say that the names should be different and the way they are physically portrayed should be different as well. Different interpretations could be the same god or they could be different gods but nobody would know but they would represent the same thing/domain.

[@oz_jones]

Holy wars, ho!

[@wx7fm]

0:00 "I am your god..... ...haha, just joking😅" 13:56 "There were many ways to become a god in the ancient world. You could become Pharoah, steal fire *under breath * sleep with a goddess.... OR Various other ways!" Guy...... have you... something to tell us???!🤨

[@AmusementOverlord]

G.O.D Game Operations Director as the GM you are the God of the Gods

[@oz_jones]

Literally godfather

[@micheal-leegraham8072]

What advice can you give for a world where the gods are physical beings? They aren't necessarily worshipped or acknowledged on a further level, but they exist very prominently in their respective domains. One possible end-game for the players is to remove the gods from the world, but the effort to do so is incredibly high (acquiring different home-brewed artifacts meant to kill a specific god). Alternatively, a goblin society, existing long before any other humanoid settled the areas, worship the gods in different tribes, along with each god's true name being a sort of blessing of power over that respective god. It has been very far thought out, but I digress. Where I'm uncertain is, where do I set up lore points, or how to develop the seeds to hint or push towards that end-game if my party plays particularly in a way that it would make sense for?

[@T4N7]

The idea of different ames for the same gods across different cultures is good cuz if u have a singular pntheon worshipped around the world then it is more akin to IRL where the Greco Roman gods were like that n further back still the Norse n Hindu gods stem from the same roots as well. The thing is, players don't know all the elven words for things. So don't tell ur players ech name for the gods, just tell thrm the names in common n say things like "the sign above the temple entrnce has the name of Bartholomew the Wise written in Elvish script but using the Sylvan name" there, it adds to ur lore without confusing anyone n this particular scenario could be a plot point too if the temple is old, abandoned n may be boobytrapped n before going inside they wanted to know who the temple was venerating so they woukd ave to have someone who read Sylvn but if no party members do then 1 who reads Elvish would be able to write it down try n figure out which language it is n then the party can find someone who reads Sylvan to read it. 1 of the 9 gods in the Pathfinder game I'm working on has the domains of Death, Destruction, Madness, n Strength (it was the last of 36 domains to place n CE had the last opening n when i realized it made him the murder hobo god i knew it was perfect) he is basically like Pyramid head, just a massive dude lurking slowly thru the Underdark while dragging a massive polearm across the stones n killing/raising into undead any animate living thing he finds. Unlike pyramid head this dude is clad in bulky armour but also gets full use of his Dex mod to AC as well as adding his Con n Wid mods, so he is a smash of monk n barbarian unarmoured defense but he can still have armour. The essence of the gods is omnipresent so it isn't like he need to go visit everyone as they die for death to exist, but they r trapped in their avatars ever since reality became a thing but respawn like demons n other extraplanar things ig their avatar would be destroyed. I actually paused this video 3 mins in to come up with the real creation story of my world instead of the myths I'd been spitballing for wut the mortals believe

[@TheSuperQuail]

Elder Scrolls pantheon circa Daggerfall & Morrowind 'era' was really sexy and interesting. I believe they've since been somewhat censored.

[@Lorian667]

not in terms of violence. Only sexwise.

[@uckfayooglegay9982]

TheSuperQuail Yeah, the 36 Sermons had some great stuff that you wouldn't see allowed these days. Then there's barbed Khajiiti cocks from Daggerfall.

[@enxman7697]

"Guy blessed", i'm just finishing to do the same. A dark fantasy and intricated one, with different "squads" of gods usually not liking each other and a crisis during the world creation... Let's say the "king god", the more powerfull one, has poured chaos in the world and is a liar hated by the others gods but "acting" towards his followers like a good deiety (with his power is not a big effort to do so). Now i have to translate it on drawing the geography of the world... complex

[@andor888]

Well now I just want to see the epic battle between Dictaphone and Lampstand.

[@DuskyPredator]

I think a thing to note is that while gods represent a reflection of real culture, in d&d it works that way and backwards. Like elves care little for gold and thus don't have god of wealth like that, the closest being a god of harvest, and a thief god who is more a trickster.

[@nathenwheeler8638]

Good stuff Guy! A little sad I didn't make it to the credits this time around. :

[@HowtobeaGreatGM]

That is probably my bad. I'll double check the lists. I do absolutely apologize if we missed your name in the credits!

[@nathenwheeler8638]

How to be a Great Game Master I fully accept your apology! Thank you for the quick response! If there are any issues regarding the Patreon service itself please do let me know through either Facebook or email. Keep up the good work my friend!

[@corygumminger8894]

I've decided to adopt several pantheons in my game that are largely uninvolved. The humans worship various pantheons from ancient times depending on the location of the country. The dwarves have their own pantheon, as do the elves, as do the gnomes, as do etc. Rather than have them all be the same thing represented differently, I like the mindset that a god is essentially willed into existence by having enough people believe it exists. So, all of the large-scale pantheons definitely exist, and the power of the deities is roughly based on how many believers they have. However, this also means that a god would essentially die if all of its believers died or changed their belief (a story element I plan to add with a sentient trident being the last believer in an ancient god of the sea). As of yet, I'm still unsure of whether I want the gods to be able to be killed by traditional means.

[@williamstinde8930]

This has inspired me to make a charlatan in the same vein as Tartuffe that "Keyser Sozes" Gods from what he sees around him.

[@skyline8176]

How to make distinguishing features for a sun god/goddess, alright your main feature will be that you glow, that’s it

[@starshade7826]

Look into the mythologies of Apollo of the Greeks and Romans, and Amaterasu of the Japanese.

[@Xekzelstriker]

The pantheon I’m working on has the rule of all things must be in balance. Any suggestions on how I can tackle that?

[@LightningDragonGamer]

I don't really like the idea of gods as in these godly entities, but rather, incredibly powerful semi-mortal beings that mortals worship. In Warcraft there are the Titans who are considered to be the creator gods, but in reality, they're a race who created certain races, but not the universe. The Ancients are powerful animal spirits who were the first of that animal, for example Ursoc is a bear ancient, he was the very first bear. Then you can move into the Elemental lords, the old gods, the light and void, all of which could be considered gods, but they're not as black and white as "this creature can do literally anything and no mortal can stop them because they're a god"

[@sarahellwood1552]

I’m curious, you suggested not having multiple names ie different races. But what if the names were essentially just the different languages. I’m in the earliest stages of building my own pantheon and I have a couple names. For example Solaris is my chief deities name in common while her true name is Soraaj essentially the same name in a different language on this case Celestial which I am basing off of Urdu.

[@rattvisa]

Fun fact there was a brief moment where the romans integrated chrisianity into thier pantheon, so yeah for a moment jesus was celebrated along with like jupiter, minerva and so on

[@leodouskyron5671]

These are my rules:(this is long) 1) Is there one spiritual cosmology (gods plus the way that the spirit real work or not)or many. If many only make as many as where your players need and where they start at if different (and I recommend keeping that number low!) 2) for each cosmology there are 4 points: what is the god/prime force rule(s) *No God *anthropomorphic god(s) *forces/nature *Spirits/ancestors are they player interactive and how much (note you really want a preferred interaction or you lose story hooks) *physical avatars (looking at you Zeus) *messages *fates *afterlife *power *indifference Who many are there and what are there relationships? (The typical rule is as ruled below as above so if you have a monarchy and breeding in you kingdom the Gods do the same. If the emperor rules an empire via a vast bureaucracy then the Gods and supernatural world doing the same is natural) Are there many names for them The answer here is linked to the first of there are five gods and everyone knows them they WOULD likely know them with culturally appropriate names but if there are hundreds they will have different names and be quite a mess. (I recommend KISS here) Lastly how is divine (and maybe even non-divine) magic done? Does it all come from the gods? Does the person perform it and tap into the power of The gods? Can the Gods cut it off? A lot of questions but once done I have it all worked out and things like origin stories of they come up are easily winged once you know those big bright lines.

[@dubuyajay9964]

07:13. This is kind of an issue for me. If you used the more traditional pantheons from rl Mythology (Germanic/Norse, Celt, Greco-Roman, Khemetic, Fertile Crescent, etc...), Which dieties do the demihumans worship since most of these dieties are worshipped by humans?

[@TerrariaGolem]

Deus Vult. Best words

[@cptclonks7279]

I personally used the biblical spheres of angels. With the inhabitants of my world believing certain angels are there own gods but in actuality, are all just creations from an even higher being.

[@linus4d1]

any advice on when a cleric/ paladin player should be denied powers because of not playing in accordance with the faith? Pathfinder calls the ex- clerics or ex- paladins.

[@nicholasroberts8378]

One character idea that I have is to have a warlock that worships some figure that is not an established diety and my warlocks goal would be to amass enough power and a following to integrate them into a pantheon or even create an entirety new pantheon.

[@oz_jones]

Nicholas Roberts so basically a homebrew gm who wants to be in an official rulebook

[@364dragonrider]

Could you make an episode on skittish gms? The kind where you suggest the slightest thing and they panic? Cuz I would love to know how to deal with gms like that. All you suggest is that the triceratops in pathfinder get a bite attack (cuz we have scientific evidence that those beaks were not to be trifled with) and they freak out... It’s like the gm is a deer.

[@GuardianTactician]

Pathfinder? The system has rules for almost everything, so much so that making a ruling on something may disrupt the "balance".

[@364dragonrider]

I don't think giving an animal a basic ability to open and close its mouth quickly would do that. About all you have would be a bite that does slashing rather than piercing, and if that's broken then I can make something just as broken by grabbing the nearest ANYTHING SHARP. Besides, it's not just pathfinder, generally any game I'm in that has a skittish gm makes it where suggesting the slightest unconventional thing has me trying to calm them down for hours. Pathfinder, World of Darkness, Anima, Scion, anything.

[@adakahless]

Sounds like your GM is too anxious and not good at winging it. I know the feeling of panic when things go completely differently and in your head, you are desperately grasping for something to counter. Perhaps your DM just isn't good yet and needs some practice at randomness?

[@364dragonrider]

Of course, but I'm asking if there's anything mr HTBAGGM here knows that could help.

[@adakahless]

364dragonrider I would recommend having a discussion with the gm in question and show them some of Guy's videos on DMing...or really any video about DMing that could help them improve. Don't tell them they are bad at it, necessarily, but approach it as if it wouldn't hurt them to watch a few. There are other channels that have videos about ways to improve your approach. I have a book on my Kindle that is helping a friend of mine add more storytelling to his campaigns than he usually does. It's helped to lessen the time we fight in his Pathfinder campaign. Granted it all comes down to the GM/DM deciding to be proactive. Your only other solutions are to either tell him he's being dickish or to play with a different dm. :/

[@GarwenK]

One way to handle a pantheon with a god for every little thing is to have people not really know about them and just pray to the bigger God's and on occasion the bigger God's relay there wishes to the lesser once under there category like the water god, ocean god, river God etc. Might be interesting.

[@kurtherrmann9185]

Hey Guy! What do you think of an idea of one pantheon that are all in competition to be the big god/goddess. Like whoever has more worshippers/monuments of faith is the more powerful and therefore becomes sort of are more incharge of the universe?

[@Alverant]

How about a creation story where Man makes God(s), just like in real life? Also in ancient cultures, the gods in a pantheon weren't like sports teams. People prayed to multiple gods. I'm so glad you pointed this out quickly.

[@RevBeaker]

Re: different names gods for different races/regions. I prefer to leave that ambiguous. I have a sect of one religion who believes that the various gods are aspects of one being. Of course, the different gods aren’t 1 for 1: one of the dwarven deities might have traits of two of the human gods, etc. I don’t define for my players what the reality is; I leave it up to them on whether to believe different pantheons are actually the same.

[@andresarancio6696]

There is an interesting point to be made here, our pantheons sort of developed from our culutural interpretations of what people with power are. They are immortal, all powerful and have a ton of time, of course they are horny as hell, or well... Heaven. Perhaps they are petty and capricious, maybe they are methodical and bureocratic. Now... What would your culture believe their gods to be? After all, even (better said, specially) if your pantheon is not real in universe, it speaks a lot of what does your culture directly relates with power.

[@Elyseon]

I prefer the Kratos school of theology.

[@David_Apollonius]

This is actually something of a pet peeve of mine. In christianity, humans are destined to be with God. The bible is very clear about the meaning of life. D&D pantheons don't have much of a theology or philosophy. If I'd have to extrapolate a theory from what I know about D&D or Pathfinder, it's this: Gods send their clerics to the people of the material plane in order to convert them to worshippers. When a worshipper dies, their soul goes to the realm of the god they worshipped were it becomes either a petitioner or part of the plane itself. Petitioners can become powerful outsiders who fight on behalf of the gods in skirmishes such as the blood war. Therefore I must conclude that the purpose of mortals in a D&D setting is to provide souls to strengthen the outer plane or fight in the army of a god. The fact that this is basically slavery and that the gods must then all be lawful evil makes more sense when you realize that the symetrical shape of the outer planes seems like an odd thing if half of the universe is chaotic. There is an in game reason for this, but that seems to be more of a poor excuse. The great wheel cosmology doesn't make any sense to me. That might have something to do with alignment though.

[@Elyseon]

You know half the D&D pantheons are either heavily influenced by or straight lifted from pantheons in actual history, right? And yes, the more followers a god has, the more their power grows. That's the whole point of them trying to shove their worship down people's throats. They are also constantly scheming to gain more power. If they weren't banned from directly fighting each other by an even more powerful being, they'd wreck the world in the blink of an eye. I believe they've tried to pull that shit before too. Time of Troubles anyone?

[@Romearci]

Mortal Mess is a good band name

[@johnwendel702]

The holy color of Zeus was purple because it was associated with royalty

[@JohnnyFerno]

My pantheon is actually more a huge bunch of siblings. Like they are all children of the true creator gods, and maybe some had other parents, but all in all they are a bunch of brothers and sisters.

[@antonymash9586]

I like the idea that humanity overthrew and murdered the gods. The world became corupted. Points of light besiged by some grimdark faewild. Religions still exists and something new is forming to take the place of the old gods. This is all formed from the concept of judge-preists who gouge out their own eyes upon their final initiation. No because they are made to or because its tradition. Its just something they do after their first (and only) glimpse of the high holy of the temple.

[@artix548]

What about Monotheists?

[@MadeinHell2]

well that is convenient, as I'm just writing up a pantheon for my game. Heavily inspired by the greek mythos and boy is that a hassle.

[@patrickroelant5171]

Hey I had a quick question if you or someone else can answer. I am making a city campaign and wanted to hear any advice people have on making sure it's interesting and in depth

[@steamtasticvagabond474]

Patrick Roelant My advice is to make as much useless information as humanly possible. I do this when working on a game revolving around a gang war in a attempt to make the part of the city they live in feel lived in. You don’t really need the information on random people, but on places, it does help.

[@larsdahl5528]

Perhaps you can use an idea I have been thinking about: Let the group get some real estate in the city, and you then create the city it is in! First examine the characters for to find something they can have in common, and then think up some real estate they are all related to. Example: Two character both have skills in cooking, two others are(or can be!) hunters. Then the real estate can be a restaurant renown for its wild game dishes. And some of the characters have a common ancestor which they are(or you make them) the grand children of. Start out the campaign by having the characters get together at a funeral (of that common ancestor some of them have). After the funeral they join together at the resolving of the deceased last will and testament. There they learn they have inherited the restaurant! This way you create the restaurant in such a way that all the characters have a connection (strong enough to be chosen to inherit it!) to the restaurant. (Thus you give the individually created characters something that bind them together!) The advantage you get by using such approach, is you connect the characters to the restaurant which then again is connected to the city, and thereby the characters all have a root in the city! (Thus you bind the group to the city!) And now it is about getting the story/action going! (You have the topmost plot-line in place: The restaurants rise to fame!) Let them figure out that the restaurant has been neglected due to the now deceased been sick for a long time, and could not find anyone competent enough (I have the experience thus I am the best -problem) to take it over. Have a neighbouring lot be for sale, and have been so for a long time. (Two reasons: To demotivate the group from just selling the restaurant just after they inherit it, as there are no buyers for it. And: For the group to buy, to expand the restaurant into, when they become ambitious!) I think that would be such a solid start that it feels like the story almost make itself! They need to hire staff to run the restaurant... While they are out hunting wild game... Even wilder game... To attract picky eaters... Furniture... Decoration... Other competing restaurants... Advertising (Not the incident with rats in the kitchen)... --- The restaurant was just an example. Another option is a mansion. Gives them a home and space for a library, a laboratory, a forge, etc. ... It is about thinking up something the characters will see as a common goal to build up! --- Weak spot by this approach is that it can be difficult to replace a character (as the new character was not in the last will and testament.).

[@gisforgeetpack7299]

Thank you for the help, however there is one thing I feel like wasn't answered fully and might deserve it's own video. I am creating a world in which there are 9 gods that are all simply people who gained power in some way and rose to join the immortal council. They still live on the planet but are almost like laid back superheroes who interject when necessary but mostly just live and let live. In the campaigns I am running now, Laos, the God of life, has begun to believe that he should be the one arch god and rule all, as Germinari, the god of time, is the king of the immortals. Laos then insists the help of iniquis, the God of writing who can see every written thing (including what the players write) and Oaibat, the God of earth and fire. The problem I am having is how I can get my PC leveled to the point where they can fight Laos, but still get to that point in a reasonable amount of sessions. I'm open to ideas for storyline elements to get them there aswell.

[@gisforgeetpack7299]

Ps. My God are very involved in the sense that the also live on this planet and were people in the past

[@jeremiahabbott4469]

Question. What about a dracolich? Am in process of making a custom world, and my main enemy of thw world is a dracolich, claimed to be son of the god of death, and will be its successor. How best to proceed? I have a general amount of information about dragons, but am a bit unsure on how to continue finishing crafting this enemy. Any tips?

[@yanderenejoyer]

Jeremiah Abbott That's pretty vague still. Define his goals. Well, we know he's the son of the god of death, but how did he get conceived? And where? Does he desire this heritage? Is he acting out of duty or greed? What is the thing he wants badly, but is having trouble getting? Also, make him elusive, epic. Don't go showing him every other session or something, just tease his existence, this behemoth of a monster that lurks in the shadows of the world and is plotting this... this what? Disaster? Ritual? Does he want to kill the god of death so he gets the title faster (or at all)? Does he need x amount of souls for sacrifice to be considered a worthy successor? These are some good points to explore. You don't need to set everything in stone, just the general and important parts, the rest you should adapt as the game goes. But motivation is key.

[@jeremiahabbott4469]

Shiroe-san he isnt the son. Just claims to be. He has conquered the central kingdom, and threatens all of the continent. Due to a war in the far distant past between dragons, they cannot harm each other personally, by their patron god this treaty was formed, to prevent the world from being torn apart. Dragons shun and act as though this dracolich, Xenrodiin, soes not exist, his name has been stricken from all accounts. There are 4 main sets of kingdoms, to the north lies a heavily European inspired geography. To the south lies a more africa geography. To the east lies the rainforest, where the kingdoms are ruled by dragons. In the middle, lies the ruined desert, that is currently owned by Xenrodiins' forces. He wishes to bring death to all the mortal world, only then can he ascend to his rightful place. The gos of death, sees the dracolich, whom he gave the power of lichdom, as a threat, and a insult. Every 70 years a god is born as a mortal, in doing so this keeps the primordials(elder ones) far locked in limbo. These mortals, called legacies, are nothing special, most are normal folk. But those that aren't are exceptional people well known in some form(as mortals the god has no power beyond what their monthly celestial power is, or personal power)(think of skyrim with the star signs) 9.5/10 a legacy is fake, as everyone important claims to be one. Only Paladins, and Clerics to the gods of(secrets, magic, fire) can tell them as legacies. (Gods do participate in mortal affairs, but are spiritual.) feel free to ask more it helps me to progress and weed out problems

[@yanderenejoyer]

Jeremiah Abbott Good, good. Now all we need is how he's going to end all life. Relics of power? Maybe through old fashioned war. If so, he needs a powerful army (the most powerful army, in fact), so maybe undead and abyssal/elementals. He could also open a portal to the abyss, letting demonic chaos and destruction run wild. Also, don't forget to get into his mindset. He's going to try really hard to do this, so every plan he has must have a plan B, as I imagine he's pretty paranoid since he's against the whole world basically. Oh, and don't discard possible evil allies to be villain (he's already the nemesis after all, the BBEG). So maybe a Congress of liches that were promised power for their cooperation, or, if you go for that abyss idea, a prince of the abyss could be a very nice surprise BBEG that is even stronger than the dracolich, if you want to extend the campaing. That's the next step.

[@jeremiahabbott4469]

Shiroe-san well honestly this is the affairs ongoing in the current timeline. Hes not actually the nemesis at first, first entrance into this world will be non affiliated with a specifc kingdom(unless someone had like specifc background) adventurers that slowly get dragged into a war. Xenrodiin has an army of clerics/zealots. They believe the best thing to so in service to him(the next god) is to die again. They undergo select training, so that when they die, they fully retain combat expertise, necromancy is influence of the spirit if the god of death, it is spoken through Xuvarii, the language of the dead. His army is half undead and half living. In life Xenrodiin was a Green Dragon, his poisonoud breath attack inducing different effects based off race, humans(if they survived/stayed near the fumes) were charmed, their minds fogged. Being the smallest among his hatchmates, he naturally craved power and influence over others.

[@yanderenejoyer]

Jeremiah Abbott I see. So what's preventing him from destroying everything right off the bat?

[@RoundRobin0]

In my campaign if a character asks a deity for something they must roll 96-100. (95% chance the deity WON'T grant the request.)

[@skyline8176]

RoundRobin0 aayyy my boi would you mind destroying this city as they used to be my good boys old chums but they dissed my clothing and stopped being so diddly darn nice so would you mind me asking my good buddy pal amigo if you would help out a fellow mate and smite them for it

[@hurraylolth]

I was hoping you would answer this but unfortunately not. Perhaps someone here could. It's Dungeons and Dragons, most beings are not human. When you come up with a pantheon that would be worshipped by the entire world or continent or what have you, how do you deal with this fact? What races are the gods? Do certain races worship certain gods of the pantheon because they're a particular race. It also greatly challenges certain concepts of beauty. Is your Goddess of Love character all of a sudden an Elf? Do the goblins of that game world deny the idea of love because they've been at war with the Elves for thousands of years. Those are some of the questions I was hoping could be answered. The TLDR is; How do you factor in all of the fantasy races when it comes to making your own pantheon.

[@TooLateForIeago]

The Romans were pretty tolerant of preexisting religions. When the Romans encountered the Israelites and their Yahweh, they thought the Israelites were crazy for worshiping a stern, parsimonious god, but allowed them to do so without being compelled to worship the Roman State Pantheon. Christians were more problematic for pagan Rome because they were an younger faith, often comprised of citizens, that refused to follow the state-mandated worship patterns.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

The Romans were tolerant of other religions because they didn't really take their own pantheon(s) seriously... They just adopted whatever they stumbled upon, "Romanized" it and called it a day, adding to the ever growing list and litany of Romanized (romanticized) things in Roman society... What set the Israelites aside, along with a lot of the general middle-east, was the existence of "monotheism" and so difficult were some of these "religions" that they'd riot in streets and gang together to murder "heretics"... Heresy, before then, was basically a crime against nature in some manner, and usually termed more about the nature of the crime (pun intended) than anything religiously centered as "heresy" in so many words. A major sticking point with Christians was their complete disdain for working through the tax and census time, which they (at that time) believed (factually, btw) was the time when their messiah was born... This caused problems because there was still a fairly monumental economy going on, complete with large work-force driven companies, not unlike the corporations we have today, and every worker (in that day, cuz "technology") was NEEDED desperately to show up for the tax audit for the business... When tax time came around, the Christians vanished home to sit out their "Christmas Holiday" and that dumped all the excess workload on the Pagans... which didn't go well... Keep in mind, here, common folk were considerably less considerate back then,considerably more violent (or prone to violence) and vindictive (much like their stories about the gods... oddly)... SO after hours, with the irritation of "being dumped on and abandoned" fresh in mind, the Pagans would circulate through towns to find these miscreant Christians and burn their houses down with their holiday spirits locked inside (along with families, kids, and pets)... Noel, (Winter Solstice) is a favored holiday around the world (from Pagans) SO the Christians who found out about the Pagan villagers who were prone to killing Christians "just for being good Christians" would also sift around the villages, and burn Pagan houses down... (complete with families, kids, and pets)... Now, Rome was originally Pagan, so it's not surprising that Christianity got the raw end of the civilized deal (outlawed through Rome "proper") until around 400 AD (?) when Constantine took the "helm" and had his say... That's where this "Cult of Yeshwah bin Yosef" business was technically turned into the "Roman Orthodox Catholic Church" with Constantine's blessings, and he was himself baptized to add Imperial credibility to the "New Savior" of mankind, a polite Greek kid named "Iesous Cristos" (Jesus Christ as of 12th/13th century... whenever they invented the "J"...) Constantine made his proclamations from Mycea, where he'd basically met with whoever among the cult leaders had balls enough to show up, and determined what was and was not acceptable for the Roman Holy Bible... INCLUDING that Christmas was NO LONGER during tax time, apparently they'd "accidentally" gotten the dates wrong some 400 years earlier, and it was actually about the same time as NOEL (winter solstice = Dec. 25 ish)...To prevent ANY damn body burning ANY damn homes down... so cut it out... (lolz) I love this history lesson, honestly... It's a lot of fun if you can set aside the micro-management religio-heretical crapula and get into the story... Politics, and fighting in the streets... "Hardline" Christians get so pissed about it, too... kind of a bonus. ;o)

[@lokieland1]

So im making a world where the gods are men and creatures that obtained there divinity through there legends. In other words gods are gods as long as enough people remember their legends. Any advice on stuff to remeber or avoid when make them?

[@KayBbyXOXOXO]

still waiting for the full story of the stationary wars

[@brucethommen4548]

You are a God, as in G.ame O.peration D.irector. lol

[@Darkwintre]

Rothenel, actually the name of a kingdom on this world. Ages past during its First Age humanity arrived here on generation ships from their ancient home world. Beseeching the aid of the elves who lived here they allowed three of their colony ships to land off the coast where they floated tethered to the coast. Eventually allowed to colonise the coast the usual human habit screwed up their attempt to colonise the world resulting in their floating colony ships to be sunk as a reprisal from the elves who rather than fight humanity directly returned to their Feywild home intent on allowing the world to revert to its state before their arrival causing the end of the humans on this world. However one elf objected to this and made a deal with the humans allowing them to settle. The humans broke their word again, but the elf that made that deal was herself imprisoned by her own people and only learnt of the humans breaking their word upon her return. The human civilisation collapsed by this point and she showing mercy helped restore the kingdom although most of the rest of the world was covered in mists the side effect of the elves opening portals here from that Feywild that also opened portals to the Shadowfell. Rothenel is protected from these mists by a series of defences located on its border and need to be renewed periodically to avoid them collapsing. Sorry need to find tune this just trying to explain what actually happened and then fine tune it into a pantheon of sorts.

[@TheSaintMystic]

What do you do about players who want to play cleric or paladin, but have no interest in learning about any dieties?

[@HowtobeaGreatGM]

No powers. That's the trade off with deities. Otherwise they are not interested in story and it just becomes a hack-slash game.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

I might agree, Guy... That's definitely ONE way to do it... There's a slight alternative, that can get pretty entertaining... Send their deity of choice down in various forms to make their PC's life absolute lunacy... Argue with them, conspire against them... occasionally light a very literal fire under their ass when they're not doing "the job" properly... You can have all kinds of entertaining interactions between a "fat-mouthed faithless preacher" and his "deity"... Think of "From Dusk till Dawn"... George Clooney is talking to the Priest who'd lost his wife, year-ish (or more) earlier to a car accident... "Listen Jacob... A faithless preacher is worthless to us. A servant of God can bless the water and make it a weapon. A faithless preacher is no use to me, Jacob, but a servant of God can put two sticks together and shove it up their demonic asses. So what's it going to be, Jacob? Are you just another faithless preacher? OR are you a mean motherfucking servant of God?!" AND then Jacob says... "I'm a mean mm-mmm servant of God." ...That's if you can build from the initial humor onset... AND if you want the dramatic climax as the demonic (undead? vampiric? just moldy?) hoards are closing in or beating down the doors... Frankly, I'd probably start small. Sure, with no actual faith, you don't get no power... simple... BUT signs... symbols... occasional NPC's who do know a bit about the deity, pointing some stuff out. Let the PC roll for knowledge checks, a little bit... BUT build on it... Through the Story and craft, teach the guy or gal this interesting and useful religion, reward them when they show and do well... but don't be afraid to kibosh when they "wander off the path" as long as you start funny and grow this faith in their investment. Power gamers tend to come around to RP easier with a touch of coaching and some good humor than just blindsiding them with consequences that suck all the time. They just need to learn the POWER of Narrative craft. ;o)

[@Elyseon]

Follow a principle, not the whims of a deity.

[@adammote1334]

What if it's in between the two types

[@lukekebell3146]

I'm running with a "clap you're hands if you beleive" system. Magic is so powerful over the will of the living that religious worhsip/cults can trigger a number of miracles to trigger within the domain of their deity but I leave the existence of the gods as a question of if they are REAL or is this just a weird magical reaction to peoples belief. I keep my deities ambiguous.

[@wx7fm]

My pantheon are less divine and more physical. They are basically powerful humanoid being, like 30th level PCs if they existed, who have started kingdoms and churches around themselves. They can't actually hear people's prayers or defy the laws of life and the universe, but they are still gods by the definition of this world, and divine by the definition of this world, so I still call them gods. But perhaps this will change the PCs' opinions on the gods

[@Sporner100]

Female god that breaks the pattern: Athena, goddess of wisdom strategy and warcraft Zeus didn't transform into one sort of animal. he chose different shapes in each story in order to not get caught by his wife while cheating in her. Why his mortal partners got involved with him without knowing his true form has to be a weird rapey mindaffecting ability, that could be hard to incorporate without violating your players... I recently ran into an issue with having multiple Pantheons: If the gods affect the mortal world, they exist. Now if all Pantheons exist you can not start each with a creation myth, after all, the world was only created once. Now a single god or his priests could lie about their god being responsible for everything, only later realising that that includes evil, but when other gods commonly walk the earth and send visions to their followers such deceptions won't last...

[@mountainking1166]

One way I went around that problem of multiple creation myths is by giving each pantheon a fragment of the actual story. Not so much that each pantheon is lying, but each pantheon is just looking at one small part of the big picture.