HUGE Changes to Gear Progression & Crests, Last Minute Class Changes for 11.0.7

[@SignsOfKelani]

Become a KZbin member here - kzbin.info/door/sxidPdmPXDlsS3rn7arJsAjoin 25 New Features Coming to WoW - kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYO6pIqam6iUfqs Patch 11.0.7 overview - kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHPWiah8gtmHiZY ULTIMATE Gearing Guide for Season 1 -kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3-rfoKffbSnlac How to quickly farm reputation & renown - kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2K4iY2fn7J5ZpI

[@MadKingLemon]

A huge change for M+ would be as simple as adding more respawn points. Some dungeons you lose 2 minutes getting back from a wipe.

[@justaskin4529]

Dont wipe then

[@lucasmurphy740]

2 minutes 😂

[@Ne1vaan]

@@lucasmurphy740 GB has some bad runs. Combined with 15s per death its about 2 mins gone for a wipe.

[@YuriGualeri-t5q]

They should remove timer and use a death counter like m+ and Key upgrade based on this death counter.

[@YuriGualeri-t5q]

​@@justaskin4529wow Is about trial by errore and skill. Wipe Is part of the process.the whole concept of running a dungeon at max Speed avoiding pack and dps che king every pull Is wrong.

[@tonybackus]

I have been playing wow since day one . I don't comment on anything blizzard forums or any KZbin videos but this idea of mythic plus deaths instead of the timers is outstanding. Having been a guild leader/raid leader for 17 years of this game. I have seen a lot come and go but friends I have made through the years have said they would come back to play wow if something like this is implemented. This system seems more fair for those who have children or physical ailments and can't sit down and focus hard for 20 minutes only to fail the timer.

[@its.araragi]

No, that's actually the worst ideea for anyone valuing their time. Death timer will just transform m+ into raid. No timer will encourage degenerate behavior like waiting for cooldowns before every pack, waiting for lust for every boss, taking only dps with high survability with no care for damage, and so on. A dungeon will change from a 30-45 min investment to a 1.5h slog just to get no loot at the end. ( or at best get a heroic piece of gear that in 90% is useless to your character )

[@itiswhatitis1512]

I have played since the 3rd month of wow. Been in and out of high end raiding guilds. I play casually now. The timer is fine. If you can't beat a timer, you are not going to beat a death count.

[@Sas-ym4gg]

@@its.araragiI mean, people can choose to do that if they want to but most won’t need to go to that extent. You act like that will be the only way to play but instead it just opens it up for people to engage in different ways and paces - which is good. Your brain is meta cooked bro. People want to have fun - they need to make it fun or nothing will change. Majority of people don’t find a timer fun. You can still go on your imaginary elitest speed runs for your epeen. It will matter as little as it does now, it will just more apparent and less of a gatekeeping factor. More individual groups will form with the same intention versus lfg throwing anyone into it together.

[@concordetaekwondo]

Blizz should make a separate game for the instant gratification crowd

[@fakeshotty1622]

I might be crazy but wouldn’t it be nice to have ‘m+ in a que? Kinda like a ranking system so you move up once you complete certain m+ keys showing that you know the mechanics well enough to progress and not eff it up for the others (this being for people that don’t have active guilds). But also keep the premade groups too if you want your friends to carry you or just run it with friends

[@PixelSequence]

I love this

[@HeatherMajors]

@@fakeshotty1622 that is a cool idea. I know that I could easily ruin somebody’s key so I don’t even try to do m+. Too bad other people aren’t as aware and are perfectly happy bringing their mess and making it other people’s problems.

[@archangelz2312]

crests uncapped but still stuck at 2k valor stones lol ....

[@Scuuurbs]

That tracks. Blizz have been making half-baked decisions and releasing knee-jerk patch “fixes” for a while now.

[@shadowofthe]

xmog

[@shadowofthe]

@@Scuuurbs xmog

[@itiswhatitis1512]

BINGO BANGO

[@weslantz1977]

Make it an option that you can choose when activating your key, either timed or death limit. Different dungeons and experience levels would benefit.

[@MJeffSantos]

Yeah, this is something I would like.

[@leonardceres9061]

This wouldn’t work because people would always go for what they perceive as the most Optimum/fastest thing which is probably the timer. No I feel like there are too many people against the timer that it needs to be in their favor.

[@HeatherMajors]

@@weslantz1977 this is basically what I said to my husband. Some people love timing keys some people hate it give us a choice.

[@apointtomake1517]

meanwhile a bountiful delve with coffer key gives a whole 2-3 crests...

[@Dr0Damyen]

A huge change would be if instead of the 30% discount on crests, the discount would be 25% per character with the achievement on both crests and valorstones. So if 4 characters got the achievement for reaching 619 (or 636) in all slots the rest of your warband can upgrade their items up to 619 (or 639) for free.

[@Ali.Fazel4sf]

nice, clean and categorized info. really great video

[@sarkxyson6113]

would it be to difficult to have both mythic systems ? and the keyholder chooses either death limit OR timer before the dungeon starts ?

[@fabiusque4266]

Yes, I think it would. The whole tuning is based on the idea that the group has to beat a timer and therefore go fast, a deathcounter would do the exact oppositve. And a deathcounter woul always be the easy ways because you could literally wait for all cooldowns to be up again after each pack. Changing to a deathcounter would in my opinion instantly kill the mode.

[@timj11dude]

M+ can stay as is, with tweaks, but if they look for a new way to gain rewards from repeatable group content I hope they do it in an entirely different manner.

[@gambit6435]

I was thinking the same thing. Even though most players will opt for the Death System a specially when pugging, having the timer runs as an option would still allow those who enjoy the timer to do so as well as the MDI to continue as normal. But a Death System would be so much better on Tanks (Not ridiculed for their choice of route), Healers (More relevant to keep people alive) and even DPS (Not ridiculed for accidently pulling an extra pack). I still feel that Blizzard are catering for the 1% pro players when they come up with things like Raids, M+ etc. And Having the Death System would cater to the other 99% a little more. Just my opinion anyway.

[@rmmorang2134]

@@fabiusque4266 I don't mind the death counter idea. But I think the best way to fix M+ is to just get rid of key degradation for failure. Let me fail on the same +8-9 as many times as a feel like it. If I feel I cannot complete it then I'll lower it myself. I feel like leavers wouldn't be such a bad thing If I could just find a new member and reset the dungeon . Edit: to add to this. Let me re-roll my key two or three times a week. It sucks when I get Siege of Boralus three times in the same week. I like running my own keys. I have yet to get my own key for two of the eight dungeons this season. I don't often run other peoples keys because I play a non-meta spec (devastation) so I rarely get invites.

[@Syraky]

death limit would ruin m+ for me and is almost entirely different from the current system

[@FeyakGorale]

As a healer, i can't stand the current GOGOGO mentality of all groups. It creates soooo much strain because one moment of inattention it's a wipe. It's stressful, and it has been curated by the M+ timer requirement. This M+ pull methodology has also completely destroyed my desire to tank as well. I remember when they first added Mythic difficulty. It wasn't a forced progression but a status symbol. Adding it as a death counter while also increasing the difficulty would make this so much more accessible to those more methodical tanks like me. I would be grateful if it was added.

[@Hornsvinet]

If a m+ has "FAST" in it, yeah forget about it :) I Can do it fast but its the mentality of actually writting it in title..

[@JeeyellCorps]

I like the comments saying to have both M+ options available. I agree. Maybe have different ratings for each. I might have to think about it more, but my initial thought is that I think I would personally like to gear up and push rating using a death counter first, but then try to push times as I either get better gear or whatever. And they would probably need to separate ratings because a group that knows the routes and CD timings etc, shouldn't have to expect me to also know those things when I've padded my rating with slow, methodical runs, and vice versa. Finally, that also might allow them to scale rating a little differently between the two methods, if they find that one method is significantly easier than the other. If death counter is easier, because you can just lust every pull with groups willing to take that kind of time, maybe you need to do +10s to get the same rating as +8 timed ones, for example.

[@butterflysrage]

I'd LOVE to see a death counter as opposed to a timer. I hate the "go go go" of m+ and haven't touched it since delves came out specifically because I'd rather "pull safe"... and we are already incentivized to go fast as it means more runs (and thus more rewards) per hour.

[@HalJarrett]

Do you have your Plater profile posted somewhere? Your settings are exactly what I'm looking for.

[@dethangelishere394]

i wish that in the higher Delves they would change it so that Guilded crests drop. there is literally no reason to do delves higher than Tier 8. thats 5 tiers of delves with the same crests. i like the delves. it allows me to do them on my time and it's comforting to know that i dont have to worry about being slowed down or slowing down others. i am glad the cut the cost of ugrading crests though. it felt like highway robbery every time i converted some. another thing is that need need to lower the amount of leather required to make stuff. some of those leatherworking recipes require 150 leather and i think that's just crazy. it makes me feel like i have to spend an entire day killling creatures and skinning them just to keep up with the crafting orders.

[@CosimoOrsini]

I would love the option of the death limit AND the speed. Meaning - choose which one you want. There was a cadence to the old Vanilla Dungeons that required more thought of how to pull/how to fight as opposed to pressing buttons and cool downs faster. I kinda miss some of the old "don't do this or you wipe" pull issues as opposed to "Try not to pull 5 groups, just 4".

[@autisticrobotdragon17]

Uncapped weathered crests is huge for me. With the changes ,I think 435 weathered = 15 guilded crests. And I can still use a ton of those

[@PixelSequence]

Personally, I would love to see mythics have an option for timed key or number of lives spent with potential achievements and/or reward tracks for each. This would be a great way to enhance mythics, add popularity and expand playtime for players willing to engage in both.

[@xwartornx]

Honestly, i think the death timer for mythic+ is a new way to look at it but personally if there going todo that they would have todo something along the lines of "sub 10s including 10s being death limit's then anything over a 10 being on timers simple cause if your pushing over 10s to begin with you like doing keys you like the idea of the timer i think that would be the best way todo that system to make it fair to both party's the ones who like the death limit and the ones who like the timers and the speed and 10s a good fair cut off point.

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@TheManyfaced]

I would love to see a change where your key doesn't go lower unless u finish the dungeon- timed or not. This will save the drama of key degrades when people decide to leave dungeon in the middle of the run.

[@arednie]

You're back 🎉

[@dennygreen7067]

Hey folks, this is kelani

[@nathana5718]

Evidently the death count change is popular on its face from browsing this and other comment sections on reddit, etc. I'm not sold. It will fundamentally change how M+ is played, what pulls are viable, shies away from creative pulls/routes to always favor what is a low-risk option. Positives of course are that it will generally make M+ easier/more accessible and that's great. More players in the game mode is always a route to more fun. Hopeful that my concerns are just that, and looking forward to the possibility of the change.

[@Lisasimpsonfan]

Lower crest cost is the best part of this new patch

[@rollyn1169]

Mythic dungeon death limit will get even more toxic, they should give us option to choose timer or death limit

[@robinblaine5385]

They should give parties a choice between timed or death limit when they begin a M+ dungeon.

[@SirDouglasIITV]

I think a good way to make Mythic+ easier and still keep some difficulty to it, would be setting more respawn points. Then getting rid of deaths taking away time. (Maybe increase the timer a little, but that is debatable)... Getting rid of death timer and making it easier to get back in the fight without completely changing the format, could keep people happy.

[@knocknoc77]

So I've read the comments where people say a death match M+ would ruin M+ & I see their point. But a solution to that is a death match could run at 2 lvls lower than the key allows. If you have a 10 key and run a time match you get 10 key rewards but if you run it as a death match then you get M+ 8 rewards. Let's not just think of the problems but come up with solutions. I will not run a timed M+ (I'm a healer) for fear that I will hinder the group from doing what it needs to do. I'm not in a guild so I would be a pug healer and the fear that I failed the group is more than I want to deal with.

[@itiswhatitis1512]

I don't want a death counter. I'm completely happy with the way mythic plus is right now. I don't want them to take longer, I don't want them to play slower. As fast as I can, as I do it over and over and over and over again in the endless gear tread loop

[@phenixtalonsbane7232]

I like the idea of the death counter vs the timer for M+ Maybe allow the party leader between choosing between the 2 possibilities?

[@alexfranklin902]

As a player who likes to heal, the change to a death limit versus time limit would make me more likely to push keys. I hate the gogogo mentality in WoW these days.

[@Coldkil666]

Thenbuffs to M+ are good but that doesn't change the fact it's an abysmal experince especially after being able to get to HC gear from delves. Balance aside (that needs to happen on both sides) the fact players go from being able to gear up at their own pace without obstacles to a game mode where anything can go wrong and make you just waste all your time for nothing is not going to make many people who didn't care about M+ from the very beginning if they didn't give good gear to jump in.

[@RagingTrojan]

Letting us choose would be amazing... If its a relatively easy dungeon (like mists for example) we can choose a timed run... If its a lot harder to time but mechanically challenging, choose a death count run instead and be more methodical!

[@wondocalrissian2632]

Keeping the time limit and adding a death counter as an option gives you the best of both worlds. An ideas to balance the rewards for each type is making timed runs like bountiful delves. Complete it in time and it drops three pieces of gear for the group and you get more crests. Don’t make the timer, you get one piece of gear and less crests

[@wondocalrissian2632]

You can also make leaderboards earn mounts or xmogs at the end of the season like Arena players. Point is, removing one option because a big group of people are not having fun is not the approach. Adding a new option is the best approach with tweaks to entice new comers to progress and keep their “ball” rolling

[@Shredow2]

Death Limit should be a seperate game mode for five mans tbh. Both should really be in the game. Some people love speed run gameplay and would hate to see the current form of M+ go. Others HATE speed run gameplay and want more classic style dungeon running in an open ended challenge format.

[@MJeffSantos]

I'm new to wow (kinda, played until WOTLK), so this is my first time doing M+, and here are two things I don't like at all: 1. Breaking the key because you didn't time it. I think this pushes you to play more the keys of others rather than your own. I think if you don't time the dungeon, you just don't upgrade the key, but no degrading should exist. 2. Lack of mythic gear on +10 forward, pushing you to mythic raid. I hate raids because they take too much time, while dungeons are much faster. But here I am, playing dungeons for a whole week to just get one mythic piece of gear on vault. Even if could only get mythic at +12, there should be a way to loot mythic gear on m+

[@Tun_Fisk]

I partly agree with the mythic gear needing to be more accessible through dungeons, however the issue with having it farmable is that some people will be bis in a week and it ruins the overall progression of the server, which is why they have been using crest caps, I would assume. The same goes for not depleting keys as it would allow for groups to do MDI level pulls and just restart if they failed it, never getting better at playing anything but 1 scripted pull. Which would in turn force every player to adopt this play-style of pure time investment and no thought instead of learning to adapt as you go, which is what makes a good player, currently. So while the system is flawed, for sure, I'm afraid that the alternatives are worse. It would give an unfair advantage in the sense that time would become more valuable than skill. Currently time is a factor for sure but not the only one.

[@HeatherMajors]

So is there any changes coming to crests for delves? I struggle too much to do M+ and would not want to ruin anyone's keys. But I still want to upgrade my gear. 2 Ruined per level 8 is pathetic, and Guilded is a faint hope based on RNG for maps. I mean I do love that the trade in is half now, so that helps but wondered if Delves would eventually be more viable for casual players like me.

[@Dion2000able]

I still feel like, you should be able to pauze the timer and invite another player during m+ runs. Stops from breaking keys when 1 person leaves. Some people are fine with untimed runs. Or happy to join a key halfway

[@Omar-Alsaif]

Some meta groups gonna do crazy tacs with this and Blizz not gonna make it

[@JeeyellCorps]

Seems like it would be good idea, on the surface. However, one issue I think of immediately is that it could FLOOD the group finder with carries. You can run a high key with a strong, fast group of 5 people instead of 4 until the last boss, and then drop one player for the customer and only have to really carry the last boss instead of the whole dungeon.

[@brandonsanford9906]

Simple... add a death limit and a timer. Where if you beat both you get an extra 2 items in the chest.

[@Yikesnickk1234]

If I were to offer a suggestion on the idea of what mythic plus is. I would offer the idea of keeping the timer, but amping it up to a longer duration. With that being said, have a marking system implemented similar to what an fps game would have. “Single kill, double kill, head shot” etc and have it impact the score you end up having once completing within said threshold… no death counter. With this, I believe people would have the opportunity of being creative and taking on more or less depending on packs… depending on the difficulties of how many or factor of how each mob is ranked could have a factor into how gearing would work. Wouldn’t be something as legion bonus upgrades, but maybe depending on ranking of the dungeon. You would have a better chance of receiving your bis item from the dungeon or having a better chance of recovering a socket on an item or in easiest case. More crests?

[@Fzmrdecekretardovany]

that would completely make the timer obsolote, the way mythic works is compltely fine, why do people have the need to do every top end gameplay? you can absolutely do +8 if you arent mentally disabled, what else do u neeed, its already pretty easy

[@wvguy7238]

Finally, DH gets some buffs. Ironically, single target only.

[@matthewwharton8698]

Feel the same way about mm

[@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggington]

DH doesn't need multi target buffs?

[@Boomken76]

12:32 its not just M+ that is pissed about the Go go go, its INFECTED PVE content, 5 mans & timewalkers.

[@tech-daddy]

How about thinking outside of the box and let people choose timer or Death limit before a run? Simple!

[@awesst7247]

That’s a great idea

[@CrazeyHaze]

People will always choose the easier path. And I'm all for people picking what they want, but it will very similar to the way people bitch about delves vs m+. A lot of people complain now that other players get good gear from delves, then hop into m+ unprepared. Sooo, what I would expect will happen...which ever is "harder", those devoted to that mode will complain that the other players have it easier, then "Blizz sucks", "Blizz is lazy", "I'm Uninstaller cuz Blizz won't kiss my ass" etc.

[@mimcduffee86]

@@CrazeyHaze And those are usually the same people that used gear they got from delves at the start of the season. It's just the typical "I did it, but you shouldn't get to" bs.

[@smittyjones8755]

Exactly what I was thinking. Also, instead of a death limit just make the reward based upon how many deaths you end up with.

[@leonardceres9061]

@@CrazeyHaze which is why the decision needs to be taken out of their hands. I’m all for players having choice in things, but not one it affects other players and forces a Meta down people’s throats.

[@lexamenrf44]

Personaly I can't wait for this changes. Making the game more accessible for casual players such as me - it's a good thing from Blizzard. Unfortunately not every can invest as much time to play because we got some other business to attend. So I support these changes! making game more casual - this is what I personally am paying my money for

[@christopherdaffron8115]

I had the understanding that the new ring will continue to improve in power even through the new major patches unlike the Dragonflight ring.

[@axocopan42]

Mythic+ deathcount replacing timer would be an incredible improvement. I hope they implement it - or make it either, so those who like GOGOGing can keep doing their thing too. :)

[@TheDondarrion]

Im surethere are a ton of holes to poke in this but what if the keyholder could choose timed or death limit mode

[@jgm877]

To know why the old m+ crest system was stupid think of this: Lvl 8 key only 15% harder than 7. But you had to do 6 7s to get the same crest value as 1 lvl 8. Now it is 18 runed at 7 with a 45 trade, meaning is down to 3 7s now to equal an 8. Not perfect but still better than the previous arbitrary breakpoint.

[@MJeffSantos]

I would only like to play a death limit dungeon if there was no enemy forces requirement, because then you would be able to use skips and travel safely without necessarily being slow.

[@Kppot]

Amazing and most required change for M+ dungeons is to remove them from the game OR Make M+ gear non-compatible with the raid drop, just like PvP gear does

[@Parshenissa]

When will this updates go live ? Shall we save our crests on alts?

[@MjolnirsPower]

Death limit makes WAY more sense, and would curb the elitism. Forcing controlled and intelligent play rather than rush, rush, rush. Hope they implement it.

[@gundulf3084]

Kelani, what is the flaming sword your character carries around the 6 minute mark in this video?

[@zarakirayjin]

Im not sure what sword it is but to get the "Fire Enchantment" you can Tmog, its Primal Fire :)

[@gundulf3084]

@@zarakirayjin thank you!

[@rmmorang2134]

I'd prefer a death limit to a timer. Personally I think the biggest change to M+ the devs could make to get me to play them is to get rid of keys degrading after you fail. If i want to slam my head against the wall in a +11 then let me do that. Keys getting demoted when you fail is why M+ is such a toxic place.

[@f2thecombs]

Actually you would not. No one, I repeat no one if failing mythic plus due to the timer and having 0 deaths. If you fail a plus 10 it is not because you had zero deaths and just did not have the damage. We'll woth a death limit run the key you just completed but failed the dungeon you would not complete the dungeon.

[@f2thecombs]

Key depletion needs to go that i agree with

[@tyjackson4650]

What about the current crests we have? do they go away our do we get to keep what we currently have?

[@lafayettesjournal]

We can use the ring for raids and mythic dungeons? A friend told me we can't.

[@cindywagner49]

Love your videos..

[@igorsergeev6068]

Damn, MM getting buffs, am I sleeping:D Maybe now it will be easier to get into keys... One can dream

[@justatfn]

Thats all very cool but what about brewmaster tanks? Are we going to get anything? Guess the ring sounds nice...

[@Riffcina]

Can someone tell me what addon for enemy nameplates is this ? So clear and nice :)

[@JMFUnlimited]

How about an option between the two. Timer or death limit. I personally despise the “go go go” mentality that has tainted almost every aspect of the game. I remember the 5 man dungeons required as much tool kit utilization at a raid might, just with fewer players needed to gather at one time. I feel like it would encourage more of a communication/connection between players rather than the autonomous toxic bs we see in many, not most, not all random groups. The sad part is it only takes a few bad experiences before people get really turned off from group content in an MMORPG. Currency and gearing- the punitive time gating is EXCESSIVE in wow. It’s almost as if there is an antiquated mind set that “no one plays alts” so let’s tunnel them into one toon for most of the season and make it so daunting that I just don’t want to play anymore.

[@Notorious1441]

What if they added a death limit, but also made the timer a little more forgiving? You'd remove some of the stress of the timer, while still requiring the group to keep a decent pace without dying too much. That could be a good middle-ground. Just a thought.

[@Azurewrath44]

I actually like the death cap Idea for mythics. But why not simply let players choose either option which suits them best? Let the party choose a speed run OR a death run? I am sure they could easily impliment giving the players choice then that would make both camps happy without upsetting the other.

[@Boomken76]

6:02 I was wondering how they were going to force players to use the ring

[@fisttaface]

Why not give the option to the party leader in mythics to be able to select between a timed run, or a death limit. This way everyone will be happy

[@graysaltine6035]

Just remove the death limit _and_ the timer, hard-cap AoE for *ALL SPECS* and make CC necessary again.

[@DarrenGagnon-u7v]

Add a vendor and token system please!!!! So fun and people enjoy buying different gear trinkets, weapons etc and trying them out.

[@shindalah1794]

Another patch, another day spriests are forgotten.

[@heckingracken]

Death limit makes more sense. Timer just adds unnecessary stress imo. Which is why I only like to run m+ with my guild. This will better to balance around too. Skill will be based on how methodical you handle pulls; not what classes would be more efficient to clear. Also, to those saying it would ruin it, because it would make dps irrelevant; it's not like they can't add a phase that kills you if you don't do a certain amount of dps or break some shield, etc 😂

[@Fzmrdecekretardovany]

what do you mean unnecese stress ? the game is supossed to be hard? why would you NEED to zoom thru everything instantly without any skill and effort? thats your problem, you literally have over 12 different levels of mythic plus and you canchoose and learn the game AS YOU WISH, why do you need to complete the highest level when you are not that good? timer makes it fun and challenging

[@rmmorang2134]

@@Fzmrdecekretardovany you can adjust the difficulty without the need of a timer. like 10% of WoW players do/complete mythic raids for example and they are not timed. Ask the majority of more casual players and they'll tell you the reason they would rather run delves over M+ is because it is easier to gear, little to no toxicity and because of the timer in M+. Gatekeeping content is a weird take. By amount of Keys run this season, especially ones run at lower levels such as 4-6. You can tell the casual crowd only ran them in previous seasons because it was the best way to gear. M+ no longer is the best way to obtain heroic gear. running two +8 delves gives you a 618 piece in your vault. So casual players like myself are not touching them. Even with a death counter I never plan to take on high end keys. I may start running them again though.

[@samadams2315]

I'd say make the timer ⏲️ start at 8s and above for people that wanna push and remove the timer from 8's and below so players have a choice overall

[@joaofagundes1845]

So it's a M+ patch, gotcha... Thank you but i will pass! M+ community is the most toxic thing in WOW at this moment!

[@spunbearing]

I really hope this isn't just another heirloom piece. They are pretty much useless and taking up space in my bag with no way to get rid of them. Like a bad disease that's incurable . Also a death limit would worsen conditions in Mythic. The reason people stay away from them isn't cause they are hard. They stay away cause of the flack you get from other players cause you died and messed up the run.

[@Chronesys]

No changes for delves?

[@greegeree]

Ikr

[@Caffeinerage88]

Be nice if they increase the harbinger crests alittle so instead of 2 you get like 5 or 6 hell maybe even 8 at most so that atleast the champ gear you can get is maxed easier/alittle faster and get the 4/6 with the hero gear It's good they increased the m+ rewards though

[@thatfrostwolf7324]

Only thing they did so far to buff delves is nerf trade up cost for better crest currency. So now and into season 2 you’ll have to grind less for maxed out hero gear but still nothing for doing tier 9 to 11 and you have to get bounty maps for gilded crests.

[@thatfrostwolf7324]

Would save us a lot more time and fun if the devs either buffed the drop percentage to 25% for delvers bounties or gave us a reason to do tier 9 to 11’s like gilded crests.

[@Chronesys]

@thatfrostwolf7324 That would be great. With the right reward i can see going even above tier 11 for the next seasons

[@brandonsanford9906]

Apparently the ring got buffed. It starts at 639 now and goes up to like 659

[@Ruytoo]

Why not allow both options between timer and death counter? Make it an option the group gets decide when putting in the key. As you said, they are completely different play styles but can be balanced so both options could be viable at the same time so why not allow both as an option.

[@MegaMideast]

Funny how streamers are using, Massive, Huge, Big, Humungous changes, yet the players are all saying the exact opposite, its hardly a change.

[@mothman84]

I think it's called click baiting? LOL

[@Jotofar]

rogue in thumbnail for buffs, no buffs for rogues. WOW!

[@entylsa]

We used CC in clasic because we had to in order to deal with a pack, not because of a death counter. A death counter is not a good idea.

[@ryanganter5288]

Death limit would be cool but combined with a forgiving timer

[@mothman84]

That's the way to go! So you catch all possible toxicity on both sides... 😂😂😂

[@simonchoi973]

Thanks for the video. So if I only play heroic, there's probably nothing to be excited for me?

[@Jiiimmie]

One thing I wish they added to m+ is that you have one life, like in hardcore. If you die you are dead but you can still continue the dungeon. This will spice things up alot.

[@swarles354]

This wouldn't spice things up, this would completely kill m+. A 15 sec death penalty is already too punishing since in higher keys, a wipe pretty much means the run is dead this way, except you pump some giga dps and pull off extremely risky pulls. Now imagine one death means the run is over instantly...

[@Fzmrdecekretardovany]

@@swarles354dont cry about too punishing, this is LITERALLY the most hard end game in the game, why do you need to do absolutely everything to have fun? you can easily do +8 if you arent mentally disabled, why would you need to do+14 when you are not skilled enough lol, you can do +8 and still be happy,

[@swarles354]

@@Fzmrdecekretardovany this isn't just coming from me. This is criticism coming from some of the top 0.1% pushers. Even they say the 15 sec death penalty is too much and needs to be nerfed. But this has nothing to do with whining about that. It's about that guy suggesting we should implement an even worse "one death and it's over" - penalty. But yeah, let's just do that, and if someone complains, we just say "stop crying, it's endgame. If you're not good enough, just do +2's". That's the way...

[@Fzmrdecekretardovany]

@ but its true tho, you have so many options to choose from, i am no veteran, i started 3 months ago absolute PLEB and noob, and gave in the hard work and learning my class and dungeons and now i can easily time +11, people crying about stuff just are entitled and need everything changed for them, the game is absolutely fine, you can do lower levels and be happy and have fun, removing the timer will make everything safe and easy.... not like every other game that makes everything easy for casuals never died, most games did, wow is one of the last games that require actual effort, and it should stay like that,

[@swarles354]

@@Fzmrdecekretardovany if you're doing +11's, you can't understand the problem with the 15 sec death penalty. The game mode is by design hard. No one's saying they should make it easier so everyone can do it with minimal effort. The 15 sec penalty is just way out of proportion for what it is designed to be. It's meant to give death more meaning. In around +10's it's doing that absolute fine. In +15's it turns into a "one death means the run is over" - affix. Couldn't care less of they keep the affixes as is for up to +12's. It's the +12 upwards range where folks see problems. And there are problems with the affixes. You'll see, once you dip your toe in that range. The difference is night and day in difficulty and those definitely need tuning.

[@Danny-Do-It]

What’s to stop players just 4 stacking as tanks? One healer…. And taking 2 hours to kill +20 keys? Timer exists for dps classes to pump

[@snichy]

Gotta say, loving the M+ change idea - it could make it so much more pleasnt for tanks and healers

[@MrInksane91]

What's the class in the thumbnail? :D

[@DrGeazy]

Extra crests isn’t gonna make anyone push higher. A +11 is a snooze fest then 1 key higher and it’s a right nightmare to pug.

[@solemvow6281]

Plz return tanks and healers to DF S3 and M+ will be fixed. Keep the hard af mechanics and stuff going on but atleast the tank will be able to pull through and the healer heal through it

[@mothman84]

If they were willing to fix it that way, they wouldn't have broken it that way to begin with. Tank nerfs have been negatively received since the announcement, they don't care.

[@jediping]

Love the idea of death-limits for mythics. The go-go style does not work for my brain. Too much happening. I like the idea of using more of the abilities for CC and knowing which packs to skip and the like. Playing smarter not hard.

[@mrturveydrop]

Why can't Mythic + utilized both systems? Players choose at sign up, and then use the Timer or the Limited Death System. Somewhat like War Mode, either On or Off - your choice

[@carlzen5540]

I dont see how that would change the approuche. You still want to do it as fast as you can?

[@mothman84]

True that. WoW players still want to go fast, not rational actors, but yes, WoW players have dung for brains, so the only real fix is to replace them with functioning AI. They did first test death limit in Torghast, the Corridors. Hours wasted because imbeciles kept trying to rush and dying, when they should have just been patient and played safe.

[@cmikerack9296]

But if you think about it , if you’re already doing 17-18-19 keys you’re already pushing the limit of big pulls with no deaths. Adding a death counter doesn’t change anything. It’s more chill less stressing maybe they should have both systems and a different ranking to each that shows on rio.

[@kennethmalafy8012]

A really easy win would be allowing you to use a death limit or the timer, w/e you prefered. The timer kills all the fun for the run and makes it feel like some weird spam fest instead of a dungeon run. You don't actually get to enjoy the run (the most important part) or even conversate or talk to people, it doesn't promote community at all.

[@Tun_Fisk]

It would be a lot easier too, would you still do it if it didn't reward you the same gear? Because that's what delves are and they scale high as well if it's because you like the challenge

[@conqor1]

I'm still playing alts and getting the 20th anniversary achievements.

[@angrydodong8137]

As always blizz not doing what the players ask. Return tank and healer to dragonflight style. Whats the point on increasing the crest if you cant barely get any tank and healer🤣🤣🤣 stupid blizz.

[@rasmusstubnielsen3534]

I mean i played wow since they launched and I still think after so many years that there WAY to much tooning… cant keep up with what “good” and whats “bad” Its gotta be a nightmare for newcomers to get a hang on..

[@darrellfrear2461]

Why don’t they give you the option of timer or death to satisfy both types of players in mythic.

[@GenXMetalHead73]

I want to see the death limit instead of timer, it would eliminate the high stress currently in Mythic +! Might also eliminate the overwhelming toxicity in mythic. I might actually be interested in actually doing them again. I stopped running them in Dragonflight due to all the toxicity.

[@lobekkx]

i would argue its more toxic.. man ppl gonna get hate if they die. i rather go fast and have fun than slow and hate my life and hate my life even more when ppl die

[@Kinzass]

Its just stupid. Like, sitting and waitinf for every pack for all the CDs, maybe even waitinf for bl for every pack, it will be "who have more time" not "who have more skill"

[@gabrielkauhamguebertgoncal1873]

Trash idea. Would only turn wow more toxic and meta oriented

[@Omar-Alsaif]

With a death limit there is no point to do huge pulls to try to save some time which I feel it supposed to be like that , not all the tanks capable to do that...

[@Fzmrdecekretardovany]

thats why its fun wtf bro, yall are boring

[@brokenshield9031]

"A huge change for M+" In other words, blizzard has completely ignored what the community has been talking about in regards to M+ and has decided to do their own thing again. I don't think they're ever going to learn....

[@Boomken76]

timers kill fun, they force everything to be fast not good.

[@slimscud4500]

LOL, death limit in keys means playing safe and so means do small packs. How dumb is that, We all know that big pack = big fun.