Hulk Review - Arguments For and Against

[@joshieofsmeg]

Do I like Hulk? Do I even need to answer that question? Listening to you go through the cards, my tired brain was starting to think, "Wait, am I wrong? Is this all really that bad?" But then you reminded me at the end of why Hulk is great. The fun factor of when he works. The issue I have with playing him and just kind of "knowing" what to do with him, it ends up confusing me on heroes where I have too many options of how to approach the situation!

[@MCDeckDiscussions-n5n]

I have to admit this is making want to play Hulk again -- gives me some ideas of some possible builds! Thanks!

[@neojaw2192]

The fact that I play 2H solo makes Hulk soar in ranking for me 👍

[@johnm4745]

I would love to see a Gamma or World War Hulk box in the future. There are a fair number of Gamma based heroes, and use some WWH characters to flesh out the wave. The box could flesh out Gamma, Scientist, and Genius traits since a bunch of Gamma heroes are scientists. There are a variety of Hulk villians as well. Zzzax and Red King would definitely play very different from each other. The campaign could start on Earth with Zzzax, then send us into World War Hulk storyline for those villians

[@MCDeckDiscussions-n5n]

That's a cool idea. My mind hadn't even gone in that direction yet.

[@illithidlore]

I love Hulk as a character, and he can be fun to play, but he's really proof positive that FF needs to be willing to errata hero cards. If Hulk had a recovery of at least 6 and 0/4/4 stats, that would do wonders for him. Might be helpful for Banner to have a 6 hand size since so many Hulk cards cost 3 or 4 and he only has a 4 card hand size. Those cards that say "if you pay using only strength resources" need to say "if you paid using a strength resource" like most cards do.

[@Nodnarb518]

Just got the core set and loving it and grabbed hulk pack as well cause he’s one of my favorite characters.

[@mattvoegtli9928]

Hulk is alright, especially multiplayer. I got pretty good with him in Justice solo, but I have no desire to play those decks anymore. My biggest problem with Hulk is everytime I have Hulk smash I end up stunned or exhausted by encounter cards. I have a skill problem apparently.

[@specialk3116]

Love the videos, I play true solo but have been thinking about playing two handed solo for some variance. Could you do a video on all the things you can do on another player's turn? I have an idea of some but would like an indepth idea of options

[@D20Woodworking]

Yeah can probably do that

[@cerealkilla187]

So what’s the sequencing with Hulks ability? Do you end your turn, draw up to your hand size (4), then discard your hand? Meaning you go into the next turn with 0 cards in your hand???

[@D20Woodworking]

It's when your turn ends but you draw a new hand size at the end of the player phase. It's easier to think of it in a multiplayer game. Hulk Player 1 does all they can do, then throws away their remaining cards. Whatever hero Player 2 does all they can do. Then the player phase ends where you do these steps. 1. In player order you discard down to your hand size. 2. Draw up to your hand size (hulk included) 3. ready all your cards 4. Do any affects that last until the end of the player phase 5. resolve any when/after the player phase ends effects. Hopefully that makes sense. So on the villain phase and your next phase, you will have cards.

[@cerealkilla187]

@ ok that makes sense. That’s one of the big reasons I’ve avoided buying hulk, I thought you ended your turn, drew up to your hand size, then discarded your hand. I was so confused, like what is the whole point of that

[@gameplayer1980]

"Playing the game wrong for a long time" seems like a common pattern in this game unfortunately. I think I still play parts of it wrong.

[@D20Woodworking]

Most people play monopoly wrong so I’m not too worried about getting rules wrong.

[@thenostalgicnewyorker8183]

Hulk is one of the most thematically accurate characters in the game if you like the classic version of the character. I actually love playing him in Aggression with nearly 50 cards and a lot of attack events. Y’know I never thought to add deft focus, gonna try adding it next time I play him. I dig that you dig Hulk too. He is a MFin’ Beast in Multi-player and the truth is there are few moments more satisfying than dropping a Double Hulk Smash and blasting a beefy Villain for +29 damage!

[@dontberash]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Shuri brings some Scientist love

[@gnarlantlers70]

Squared off Hulk is Great. Especually if you've got Med Lab down. Try building Hulk in CDB searching rp:1 and rw:1 and build a heavy physical + wild resource deck. Leadership solo hulk is great. Plan B, Machine Man Blade & resourceful help out alot w Enraged.

[@illithidlore]

Banner's Lab should draw a card instead of generate a resource. Keep everything else the same and it's basically Banner doing research in his lab.

[@matthewbrennan6466]

It’s a bummer because Hulk should be fun and OP. My only hope is that they at least throw some gamma cards at him in future. I just don’t want to play him ever, which once again is a bummer.

[@D20Woodworking]

I have faith in gamma expansion happening at some point

[@matthewbrennan6466]

That would be awesome. One last thought on Hulk… Bruce Banner is a pretty iconic alter-ego, I really wish they had done more with him. He should have an awesome action ability. Oh well, out of 55 heroes, they haven’t swung and missed too often. I’ll get him on the table and try again. Thanks for the great content D-20, have a safe and happy new year!

[@DiosNoMames]

The fact FFG dismissed hulk being bad because it sells well is very annoying.

[@howdyfellowhumans]

D20: Every one of these cards is at least problematic if not straight trash. Also D20: I like him. He’s fun to play. I still can’t figure out how people can get excited about Hulk and think She-hulk is mid. Not saying you say that, but it seems like the consensus. She has so much more going for her except in the edge cases where the stars align and you get to drop the dumpster fire that is Hulk’s design on a villain’s head. Except you probably could have done it easier and faster with just about any other hero in the game. Just because he does go off every now and again doesn’t make him good. That’s like getting excited for a coffee machine that runs correctly one morning a week. No thanks. Man, do I hate how dirty they did Bruce.

[@jonahg3713]

Hulk is not unplayable. That's about the best that can be said about him. There is, however, *no* Hulk deck that does not work better with 75+% of heroes in the game. That's how weak he is. Rushing? Wolverine, Star Lord, and Colossus are better, among many, many others. Genius/Moon Girl shenanigans? Peter, Ironheart, Rocket, Wasp, and every Champion-traited character are better.

[@D20Woodworking]

I would disagree. I think hulk shield is incredibly strong. Problem with him is there are only a handful of options with him.

[@illithidlore]

Sub-Orbital Leap, or as I call it, Sub-Optimal Leap, is arguably the worst card in the game. 3 for 3 threat removal is trash. And if you use all strength resources it removes 5...yay. It's a Hulk aspect card so there's no reason they couldn't make it OP because it can't be used by anyone else. Hell, make it cost 1, has to be a strength resource, removes 5 threat, and ignores crisis icons. That would be an amazing card, but Hulk needs all the threat help he can get.

[@amcieks]

It’s pronounced stamina, not stanima 😅

[@joshieofsmeg]

Shhhh, I want to see how long this lasts.

[@josephgerman2674]

So many things wrong with Hulk. It's so easy for him to have a bad round / bad game. I've been creating custom cards for my house rules (I did minor changes to She Hulk and Ms Marvel, and a major change to Adam Warlock). I would do major changes to Hulk. Gideon's Gaming has that "fixing the imbalance" article which just adds 1 to Hulk's hand size, but too many of his cards are just not fun. Boundless Rage? That's how I felt when I read his cards. And why does Banner have a 5-card hand size? He should have 7 or have a better AE power. Someone did a cool Rage-Counter home-rule for Hulk which fixes a lot of Hulk's problems. In terms of builds, Banner's Lab could make Hulk the biggest Heal-Tank with Recuperation and Down Time --that works in any aspect. That lets him stay on Hero side longer, then flip to heal 16.

[@FBracht]

For me, Hulk is just a failed design. Like, it doesn't even merits discussing whether he is good or bad, strong or weak, viable or not viable. He may be good, strong, and viable, but he's still a design failure, because he just never feels like himself. Playing Hulk never feels like playing Hulk should feel. You may approximate that "Hulk feeling" by using a rush aggression deck. But if you have done so, you know how it goes: most of the time, you don't feel like you're Hulk and you're smashing and punching everything in your path. Instead, you feel like you're playing a slot machine: every round you pull 4 cards, and if they're all cherries, you win, but most of the time they're not. And then you stand there, punching for 3 or 4 (something I can do just fine with many other heroes who should NOT punch as hard as base-level Hulk), and hoping next turn you'll get lucky enough to punch harder. And that's the best case scenario! Playing Hulk in Justice makes as much sense as playing Mario without jumping. It's not what the character is for! Giving Hulk Hand Cannon? Jarnbjörn? Hall of Heroes? Gimme a break! Hulk is fun in multiplayer if all the other players are using really strong decks that can both carry the game AND support Hulk in hulking out. And that's a design failure.

[@D20Woodworking]

I mean hulk justice is strongest hulk haha.

[@heroicskeleton1566]

Exactly. He's not weak, he's just got too many weaknesses that you have to fight against. And not even in a thematic way, like hulk is supposed to be dangerous and unpredictable, balanced with unimaginable power. That's not what we got. We did get some of that power, but balanced with extreme clunkyness

[@heroicskeleton1566]

@@FBracht I actually don't mind the shield hulk decks much. Yes, they really just exist to fix his broken design, but I enjoy it thematically. It's like SHIELD is monitoring him

[@FBracht]

@@heroicskeleton1566 I don’t. For some reason, I can’t. Hulk does not thwart. Hulk does not coordinate with other people or organizations in order to methodically thwart criminal schemes. That’s Black Widow’s shit. That’s Nick Fury’s shit. Hulk smash. Instinctively, reactively, automatically. But in Marvel Champions, Hulk can’t smash. It doesn’t come naturally.

[@frankpayne8281]

Hulk is the best example of FFG learning how to create/build heroes for the system in the early days. Many of the earlier hero designs have ended up as some of the weakest (or most flawed) heroes, with either overpriced, or underpowered, cards. I would still love to see some of the hero cards from phase 1 of Marvel Champions either redesigned (Banner's Laboratory) or repriced to make them more effective. I know that won't happen, but you know if there are still issues with a handful of heroes after all the new aspect cards released and available in the last 5 years, that haven't made hero designs more powerful, that there are issues with that hero. I mostly play two-handed solo, so Hulk is not as bad as true solo, but he is certainly not the most effective design.

[@urloony]

The "For" video must be a part 2.

[@Japaninhimself]

The Current creators of this game need to make Hulk’s Hero side better. Give him another ability to add to his awful discard the entire hand. And change his hand size to 5.

[@heroicskeleton1566]

I don't think Hulk is bad. I just think he's horribly designed. He's thee only hero in the game that i hate the design of so much I will not play him. He's clunky, unthematic, and somehow the alter ego is a scientist who has an ability that is essentially JUST "forced response: discard a card once per turn"

[@jonahg3713]

Hulk is perfectly thematic. Playing as him induces rage in the player. I feel boundless amounts of rage if I ever get exhausted or stunned when I'm playing base Hulk, for example.