Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece and Rome

Although the ancient Greeks and Romans believed that human sacrifice was barbaric, they occasionally practiced it themselves.
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Chapters:
0:00 Sacrificial victims
1:17 Barbarian human sacrifice
1:57 Human sacrifice in myth
2:23 Ritual equivalents
3:04 Historical examples
4:37 Scapegoat rituals
5:45 Triumphs and devotio
6:08 The priest-king of Nemi

[@robertwarner-ev7wp]

I bet Flava Flavian wore a big sundial necklace.

[@sbcenk]

That Goatchella lineup is FIRE!

[@frankgradl3773]

I legitimately laughed aloud reading those Goatchella band names. But seriously, thank you, as always for your superb content. Best regards.

[@bolgerguide]

100% agree and laughed

[@LordTelperion]

Rage Against the Patricians! 😂

[@ha-meemfirozezaman1417]

Bath House Mafia, Juno Mars, Aristotle Grande (Imagine Ariana Grande as Aristotle), Miley Cyprus, Odyssey Osbourne 🤣🤣🤣

[@monicacall7532]

I totally cracked up too! Bravo and thanks for the good laugh!😂

[@michaeljames6817]

@@LordTelperion That was my favorite

[@var_log_messages]

The goatchella poster was glorious 😂

[@nowhereman6019]

Everyone giving up human sacrifice in the old world must have been why the Maya and Nahuatl had to pick up the slack. Gotta keep the world in balance somehow!

[@vladimirspoutine1264]

Right? I mean, do you really want to take a chance on the sun NOT coming up tomorrow?

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@vladimirspoutine1264 Spain rolled the dice for us all and we're still here, guess ol' Helios found some aliens to sacrifice

[@williamharris8367]

There is an argument to be made that the accused did not commit murder, but rather he was participating in a religious ritual -- a Constitutionally protected right. I doubt that such an argument will succeed, but I still think it is worth attempting.

[@I_Lemaire]

You're right but why didn't the NHI protect the Native Americans?

[@zainmudassir2964]

Pre Islam Arabia was also known for human sacrifices for their pagan gods

[@fireheadmx]

Would it be possible to have a closer look at the cult of Baal, in a future video?

[@rainerwodka6674]

5:40 these names are just too funny 😂 And thanks for the very informative video once again.

[@benitoharrycollmann132]

Fantastic content once again. I love that you cover the often unexplored aspects of Roman history. If you ever get a chance, I would love to see your take on the topic of the often used Germanic bodyguards of the emperors. From The Ubii thay saved Caesar at Alesia, to the Varangians of the late Byzantines, it seems to be such a prevalent theme in Roman history. Yet the topic is seldom expounded. Thanks again for an awesome video!

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

ex-Brits guarding Greeks larping as Romans, Byzantine history is such a meme it's delightful

[@apryldowns8586]

@@theeccentrictripper3863the Roman’s were just Italians larping as Greeks

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@apryldowns8586 No no, they were watered down Trojans mixed with Sabines through struggle-snuggles, doesn't anyone read Livy or Virgil anymore?

[@dayros2023]

@@theeccentrictripper3863 The eastern Romans were just that, Romans. They would have been quite confused and even offended if one called them greeks.

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@dayros2023 Relax it's just the meme, I'm on team ERE most of the time

[@louise_rose]

This is a very interesting set of questions. There were survivals of human sacrifice in classical Greece and Rome, even if they were rarely conducted as fully public ritual slaughter or immolation the way we know it from the standard examples of the Aztec empire, ancient Mesopotamia, tribal Brazilian cultures etc. Almost certainly human sacrifice was fully accepted within Minoan and Mycaenean religion; this is shown both by archaeological finds and by traces of the practice in myths that go back to the Bronze age (Iphigenia, the Minotaur, Pelops etc). Tragic drama as an art form seems to emerge at a point when human sacrifice had become a very rare or veiled thing but the ideas surrounding such rites were still alive in the minds of many people.

[@OrphicPolytheist]

Iphigenia wasn't sacrificed. She was teleported to Tauris (modern day Crimea) and lived there. The theater play Iphigenia in Tauris covers her life in Tauris, and her eventual return back home, after her brother Orestis, is unknowingly led by the Goddess there, to set his sister free from the indigenous Crimean people. If you read the actual primary sources, they never say that Artemis demanded the sacrifice of Iphigenia. They say that a character named Calchas got an oracle, that in order for Artemis to excuse Agamemnon, he had to sacrifice his most valuable possession. And Calchas thought that the most valuable possession of Agamemnon was his daughter, so he interpreted the oracle as saying Agamemnon had to sacrifice his daughter, when the Goddess said nothing like that, and in fact the Goddess herself teleported Iphigenia away to save her from the dumb Calchas who was about to sacrifice her. There isn't a single time where ancient Greek mythology or history endorses or accepts human sacrifice. In all the cases it shows up, the Gods show their detest and get offended by it, and punish those who practice it. Plus there is absolutely no archaeological evidence suggesting human sacrifices taking place in Greece. Ever. At least that's what books of scholars like Walter Burkert and Oliver Dickinson say.

[@louise_rose]

@@OrphicPolytheist Yes, but that one and other myths indicate that they originated in a society where the idea of human sacrifice was not seen as foreign and impossible (if it was ascribed to a leading Greek king and Greek goddesses, in this case Artemis). Presumably that society would have been Mycaenean Greece, because several of these myths are fairly sure to reach back well into the Bronze age (M.P. Nilsson, The Mycaenean Origin of Greek Mythology and G.S. Kirk, The Nature of Greek Myths). How far into the Dark Ages human sacrifice persisted as an open practice we can't know for sure,

[@maggiemae7539]

They still practice this today!

[@louise_rose]

@@maggiemae7539 You mean, as in war?

[@silverjohn6037]

I saw one version on the origin of the practice of gladiatorial combat that it began in an ancient funeral practice where two slaves would fight to the death. It had fallen out of common usage until Julies Caesar revived it in a set of spectacular games that were supposedly intended to honor his aunt but were really just a public relation event for one of his elections.

[@benjalucian1515]

It appears to have been an Etruscan ritual at first.

[@v3ck1n]

Aztecs would do something similar by giving the doomed feather armor and a feathered club and pitting him against multiple warriors in full combat dress and war weapons

[@anthonybird546]

I liked last year's line up better - Thunderfelis, Ordo Nova, Taliatrix Celeri, a reunited Numidians With Attitude, etc

[@gilmour6754]

BC/AD ROCKS!

[@SobekLOTFC]

Keep up the awesome job, Garrett 👏

[@maxt-pi5ky]

Always exciting to see an upload! Thanks you!

[@dupsdeggerod3037]

I’ve always wanted to see rage against the patricians live

[@sirchromiumdowns2015]

I really love your channel. I'm going to get one of your books. If this channel is any indication of the quality of the work, it'll be an excellent read. I'm looking forward to it.

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

Devotio is the most fascinating manifestation of it, basically the spiritual equivalent of the general turning himself into a nuclear suicide bomber, with catastrophic results for the enemy. If there was one thing I could see about early Roman warfare it'd be those early Devotii and see the reaction it caused among the enemy and among the soldiers.

[@klink33]

My thoughts exactly ! P Decius Mus going full berserk

[@brianedwards7142]

I'm fascinated by sacrificial volunteers, especially high ranking ones . There are stories (possibly apocryphal) of cultures where someone was treated like a king for a period before being dispatched.

[@peterthepeter7523]

Reaction of the enemy is obvious. It would be like "Oh look that's the enemy officer over there. Why is he riding towards us all alone? Does he want to parley? Nope, he wants to attack us, he lost his marbles. Let's cut or capture and ransom that moron".

[@DonariaRegia]

This channel (all three that is) and Ancient Rome Live are my two favorite channels on ancient Rome, but thanks to the algorithm I was recommended to watch Carlo Pavia. He is the guy for underground Rome with over 40 years exploring and documenting the extensive ruins under the city. Unless fluent in Italian, captions should be on with the appropriate language translation. Phenomenal journeys that would otherwise have no access. Bellissimo!

[@user-vi3tb3bw5t]

What an awesome and insightful channel.

[@michaelporzio7384]

The Old Testament also has instances of animal sacrifice to Yahweh, starting with Cain and Abel. Abraham was going to sacrifice his son Isaac, until Yahweh told him, "just kidding, never mind." Goatchella poster, priceless.

[@Joanna-il2ur]

You know I’ve had a vision, and you know I’m strong and holy, I must do what I’ve been told. L Cohen, Story of Isaac.

[@pansepot1490]

The Bible preserves “fossil” evidence in the text that human sacrifice was practiced by ancient Israelites. Isaac is an example, but there’s also Jephthah's daughter. Yahweh didn’t say “never mind” for her. Same as for the Romans and the Greeks, the practice eventually fell out of favor and not only was abandoned, it was also heavily frowned upon. I find it interesting that both the Romans and the authors of the Bible used accusations of gruesome and large scale human sacrifice to discredit their enemies. The Conquistadores did the same with the native American civilizations. Hell, even during WWI and WWII there was propaganda accusing the Germans/ the Jews/etc. of “eating children”.

[@maggiemae7539]

@@pansepot1490are you kidding?? It never fell out of favor. This abomination still exists today!

[@M4th3u54ndr4d3]

@@maggiemae7539 it fell. Where do you see human sacrifices? Maybe in Africa, but very isolated cases

[@lunam7249]

@@M4th3u54ndr4d3its everywhere sweety, just not on the 3 letter fake media

[@mrwitt5309]

Bought the first book! Definitely buying the 2nd!

[@callenclarke371]

HYSTERICAL GRAPHICS! LOVE THE CONCERT POSTER!!!

[@owencf]

Your content is always gold, gilded even, like the Ox’ horns. God bless, hope all is well!

[@gabrielslavin9887]

New toldinstone video! Let’s go!

[@EchoesofWarYT]

Love the band names lol

[@terryhughes7349]

Great episode.

[@MouseFloof]

Those Goatchella names are incredible

[@nnnn3808]

Great video

[@huwhitecavebeast1972]

It could be argued that many of the people killed in the arenas constituted human sacrifice and ritual murder.

[@Joanna-il2ur]

I don’t agree. Very few died and all were professionals.

[@John_Fugazzi]

I agree. Even when a gladiator did die, his blood was in no way considered an offering to the gods and combat would not have been considered ritual murder as there was no sacred ritual going on and no one chosen as the victim in advance. As for criminals executed in often bizarre ways in the arenas, they could never be considered an offering to the gods but I suppose that could be considered a form of ritual murder.@@Joanna-il2ur

[@mertinibus]

​@@Joanna-il2urIt wasn't just Gladiators in the Arena. Lots of litetal executions, slaves getting slaughtered etc.

[@sterlingsimmons2212]

The Roman did do human sacrifices, after a triumph the king or leader was strangled as a sacrifice to Jupiter by the triumphant general or consul.

[@TonyFontaine1988]

No because they were condemned by law and were criminals

[@johnkeck]

The festival poster was an amazing detail! But seriously, weren't the captives slain at the end of the Roman triumph *before the temple of Jupiter* essentially sacrifices to Jupiter?

[@larsrons7937]

5:32 - "Goatchella" *festival poster* - I missed it at first, but this is indeed very funny, the names.

[@neutrongarbage]

I missed it while watching the first time, but after seeing your comment I went back and they're hysterical!

[@flyingeagle3898]

not officially, it merely had a striking resemblance, also it was a exception, in many surrounding societies human sacrifice was a regular occurrence

[@johnkeck]

@@flyingeagle3898 the resemblance is pretty striking, and one of the few exceptions to the ban on executions within the pomerium. And note the sacrifice of the white bulls immediately after the mass-killing of the prisoners kzbin.info/www/bejne/fF65m3aCh5p_Y8Usi=TXT2ziWbKr_yhCjd&t=879

[@andystewart3421]

The executions of the likes of Vercingetorix outside the temple of Jupiter at the end of a triumph could be argued to be a human sacrifice

[@KingAwesome8218]

Very odd how he glosses over such an obvious example of human sacrifice, but it's okay because legally the Romans called it something else. Very bizarre.

[@leonemaledetto1500]

Killing an enemy king is not sacrifice, it's secular expansion of the Roman sphere of influence.

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@KingAwesome8218 It's not just called something else, it is something else, namely an execution. Unlike sacrifices to gods with specific victims for a specific intent the life of the enemy king or general wasn't explicitly offered as a sacrifice to a god, it's more about the Triumphing Consul/Dictator and the Republic making clear the power of Rome through capital punishment. I say unless you're killing someone to offer their life or blood to a god it's not a sacrifice, and wanting to stretch definitions of other ritual killings/executions just seems like one wants to make the Romans appear less civil than they were in comparison to their neighbors.

[@okdude8215]

​@@theeccentrictripper3863I'd argue regardless of your reasoning if you kill someone after a ritual at a temple you're sacrificing them.

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@okdude8215 You can argue it all you like, all you're doing is ignoring their reasoning and differentiation and the material differences at hand; your opinion in service of, I assume, some kind of moral claim and attempt to level the field isn't relevant to the truth.

[@dj-kq4fz]

I you haven't seen IX Uncia Nails live I highly suggest you make the effort. Thanks for some learning and laughs Dr. Ryan!

[@youaretheskeleton]

hahahaha extra credit for the Goatchella band names!! 👌👌👌

[@republicradio431]

christians though that the cruxifiction was the perfect sacrifice promised in the old testament, and replaced traditional sacrifice with the christian mass, where people belived they were co partisipating in the and only sacrifice in the cross as such the tradition of sacrifice staid in the roman culture tho in a new way

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

You've almost got it backwards, the reason why the idea of a sacrifice given to replace other sacrifices was so potent was because of the Roman world having already embraced such a concept surrounding human sacrifice, the Jesus narrative just dials it up to 11, and kills BBQ culture.

[@maggiemae7539]

@@theeccentrictripper3863Jesus sacrificed himself. An the bbq started with the Canaanites

[@benjalucian1515]

@@maggiemae7539 Jesus did not sacrifice himself. He wanted "this cup to pass" him by. God sacrificed him

[@thetavibes9021]

@@benjalucian1515 There's no archaeological evidence of Jesus ever even existing.

[@XXfea]

You always set a new high bar

[@crustycurmudgeon2182]

Loved the 'Blink 182' reference using Roman numerals! Great little Easter Egg...

[@HtotheMK1]

congrats on new book

[@philwilson4221]

A moment of appreciation for the puntastic Goatchella bands at 5:30 👏👏👏

[@unclerojelio6320]

Loved the CGP Grey rating scale. Lol.

[@franty]

When will the audiobook for the new book going to be available? I loved the first one on audible.

[@viktorbublic]

Thank you for recommending tv show Rome. Wife and I had a blast. We're watching I, Clavdius next.

[@liamcullen3035]

Love this video! Very informative! Btw, are Aphrodite and Demeter accidentally switched around @1:03?

[@NMMD1531]

Great lecture. I have difficulty differentiating human sacrifice and ritual murder. An underground entrance to the Colosseum from the palaces was a transport for statues of Roman gods to observe the atrocities. I don’t believe the Romans strayed from the ideas discussed. It’s the question of human sacrifice being redemptive verses punitive that is the real question.

[@CarlosRodriguez-dd4sb]

Goatchella!! Love the poster.

[@veldrensavoth7119]

4:07 when I heard you say no fewer, I was thinking like 20. I was wrong

[@zoinomiko]

I can't believe I didn't go to GOATCHELLA this year!!!

[@itsjbphilo50]

You should also mention that your book is in audio form through audible. Just preordered your second book through there. Do you ever plan on doing the narration for your audio books?

[@a24-45]

Goatchella!! and those headliners were hilarious....

[@antediluvian2380]

que interessante este video, difícil encontrar temas como esse sendo falados no KZbin.

[@chiricuttcomepapt5100]

Beware of the gods. Thanks for this great content!

[@thefrontporch8594]

Lake Nemi? I drove by that daily for years and I think I remember it being called Lago d'Averno?

[@benjalucian1515]

Different lake. Lago d'Averno is near the Phlegraean Fields near Naples. Lake Nemi is a small circular volcanic lake in the Alban Hills.

[@orcasea59]

Wouldn't the Etruscan funeral rite of people fighting to the death be considered a sacrificial rite as well?

[@cooper8515]

I think Vercingetorix was strangled on the steps of the temple of Jupiter, which sounds a lot like human sacrifice imo

[@patrickblanchette4337]

5:37 I really appreciate the satirical poster for Goatchella🤣.

[@alexanderborschel2135]

What about the Roman self sacrifice in battle as a spell to guarantee victory? Isn't that a form of human sacrifice?

[@maggiemae7539]

Yes it is

[@benjalucian1515]

Yes.

[@thetavibes9021]

War is and will always be a form of sacrifice.

[@fintan9218]

I find it interesting that they believe these sacrifices did something, and started continually doing it. They obviously sacrificed very valuable offerings and priceless lives, but there had to of been countless times sacrifice clearly didn’t help anything. Humans are crazy creatures.

[@cougar2013]

Who says they don’t do anything? People expressing their commitment by sacrifice changes their own behavior as well as those who witness it. And let’s not forget that our ancestors didn’t live comfy lives like we do. Pain and death were regular parts of life. We still do things like sacrifice on an individual level all the time. The “humans are so crazy” take is a little lazy imho

[@NameTaken_86]

It’s not crazy. You just don’t understand. They were closer to the truth than our present age.

[@watermelon2223]

@@NameTaken_86 Not necessarily

[@frantisekhajek6775]

They eated the meat of an sacrificed animal. It was literally a feast with religious connotations.

[@NameTaken_86]

@@watermelon2223 once you know the truth you’ll understand

[@Gragon]

Id like to declare that Im the first viewer of the video

[@kevin_heslip]

👏

[@metaclownfish5921]

I’m the 408th

[@chendaforest]

The Romans claimed the British Druids practice human sacrifice, but it may have been propaganda to dehumanise their enemies.

[@dayros2023]

The druidic religion of the celts featured human sacrifices, the Romans used it as a reason to destroy the druids, but it’s doubtful that it wasn’t true.

[@chendaforest]

@@dayros2023 there is some archaeology evidence of human sacrifice, but it may have been executed criminals or prisoners of war.

[@konstantinoskoutsikos9612]

Loved the video but you mixed up Demeter and Aphrodite in 1:07.

[@chendaforest]

Rectal impalement must have been the slowest and worse way.

[@ImmaterialMinds]

Nothing like a bit of human sacrifice to start the weekend.

[@ariebrons7976]

Dear Dr. Ryian @ 1.10 Demeter and Aphrodite are confused with each other Aphrodite is the naked statue, whereas Demeter has the Toga but no crown.

[@tehdreamer]

In Miletus, Turkey there is an ancient greek text describing how they sacrificed humans.

[@benjalucian1515]

Source?

[@tehdreamer]

@@benjalucian1515 I am travelling Turkey right now and I literally read the translation in the Museum.

[@benjalucian1515]

@@tehdreamer OK, that's fine, but some details would be nice. Where was the inscription found, to when was it dated , etc.

[@user-lq6ch4lv6k]

As soon as I saw the ranking chart I laughed so hard lol

[@WinstonSmithGPT]

You should read Violence and the Sacred.

[@MGBait]

What's your opinion on Holt Parker's paper (2004) that suggests Vestals functioned as scapegoats for human sacrifices when things went bad for the Roman state?

[@Joanna-il2ur]

Since they were protected by every Roman law know, I don’t see the argument as having evidence. If you want to see a scapegoat, Massalia had one, instigated by the Greeks. He was termed pharmakos

[@benjalucian1515]

I think Domitian scapegoated a few of them to try to shore up his declining popularity as pontifex maximus.

[@Joanna-il2ur]

@@benjalucian1515 No. this is incorrect. He didn’t even persecute Christians. That was Maximian in the West. There was no persecution in the East.

[@benjalucian1515]

@@Joanna-il2ur Pliny the Younger believed that Cornelia, a Virgo Maxima buried alive on the orders of emperor Domitian, may have been an innocent victim. He describes how she sought to keep her dignity intact when she descended into the chamber:

[@Joanna-il2ur]

@@benjalucian1515 Pliny hated Domitian, and was mates with Trajan, the eventual successor. I hardly think that counts as evidence. Most elite stuff about dead emperors from a previous dynasty is lies, such as the stuff about Nero in Tacitus and Suetonius, as is the stuff told by Dio about Commodus.

[@Joanna-il2ur]

The title card painting is the sacrifice of Iphigenia, only she didn’t die, did she? She was snatched away in the twinkling of a nose by Artemis and became a priestess of Artemis at Taurus in Crimea, from where she was rescued by Orestes, as set out in Euripides’ Iphigenia in Taurus.

[@merrittanimation7721]

Depends on the version. It's implied to be true in the Iliad and the play Agamemnon.

[@Joanna-il2ur]

@@merrittanimation7721So Euripides was playing his let’s rewrite the story thing again, as in Medea. Mind you, the version in the Cypria she IS rescued by Artemis, so it is genuinely old. I just checked. I was also reminded of something I used to know but forgot. In the early myths, she had a different name, starting with the Iliad. Some supposed experts think the two females are different daughters. We could be talking about a conflation of two myths.

[@meninaeidethea2]

As someone who works at Mt Lykaion, that skeleton is definitely NOT a human sacrifice.

[@Thex-W.I.T.C.H.-xMaster]

5:32. Good times 😊...

[@artystaar]

There are a lot of questions now as to whether the Cathaginians actually sacrificed children.

[@benjalucian1515]

Yup. Nothing really pointing to it. Anything written about it by their enemies is totally suspect.

[@deadmetal8692]

It's still happening...

[@jona.scholt4362]

Goatchella has a great line up

[@miketackabery7521]

It's not just Greek and Roman religion that called for sacrifice. Sacrifice (though not necessarily human sacrifice) is central to virtually all religious expressions, and always has been.

[@thetavibes9021]

*Give* to *get*

[@ManuelZ22]

What about the sacrifices required when founding a new city?

[@km09.]

Keep up the great content

[@JoshMastel]

a video on haruspices and augury from your channel would rip

[@benjalucian1515]

OK, I need a Goatchella t-shirt. When do they go on sale?

[@scottabc72]

I thought there were some question about the sacrifice of children in Carthage, the sources are generally Roman and likely biased

[@benjalucian1515]

You are correct.

[@DonaldDucksRevenge]

I would be curious to hear a review and your take on practices further afield to the east. What is the history of Human Sacrifice in the Near and Middle East? What were the effects of Judaism, Christianity and Islam on them to this day? Far East too. Thanks

[@benjalucian1515]

Ancient Hebrews were OK with human sacrifice. Remember the story of Abram and Isaac? God asks for Abram to sacrifice his son and Abram doesn't even protest.

[@OMGpandemic]

Let's make an offering!

[@michaelstone5298]

Some say that human sacrifice was also practiced relative to the saturnalia the winter solstice event.

[@benjalucian1515]

Nah, that all ended prior to the 1st century bce.

[@forkthepork]

Snoop Canis 🤣

[@quantafreeze]

I want to go to Goatchella 😅

[@madderhat5852]

You left out Poughkeepsie. Maybe somebody should look into that.😰

[@rebralhunter6069]

Was there another video uploaded today right before this one about opium addicts or was I hallucinating that? Is it gone now?

[@fruitygarlic3601]

Still there. It's a second channel vid.

[@rebralhunter6069]

@@fruitygarlic3601 oh that would make sense. Thank you. I'm subbed to both but I missed it when looking in my sub box a few tines lol.

[@ThePzrLdr]

I have two questions. 1) What was winter like in ancient Rome? and 2) What was the average height of ancient Romans and Greeks?

[@mdq8198]

Chatgpt is your friend

[@benjalucian1515]

Average height of men was 5'6". Winters in Rome were cold and wet. They had braziers to burn coals for heat, underfloor central heat, and they wore long sleeves on their wool tunics.

[@maxlee9512]

Woild you be interested in doing a video about the roman law of Homo Sacer? One who may be killed but not sacrificed. It's been written about by Giorgio Agamben in his book Homo Sacer: Sovereign Power and Bare Life

[@pansepot1490]

0:15 seems like Yahweh wasn’t different from other gods. Genesis 8 “20Then Noah built an altar to the LORD. And taking from every kind of clean animal and clean bird, he offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21When *the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma,* He said in His heart, “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from his youth. And never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done.”

[@suchenzuehx192]

i didn’t know the narrator from the “how it’s made” show had a youtube channel

[@Tsumami__]

I thought agemenon CHOSE to sacrifice his daughter, so that they would safely survive the ship journey?

[@ecurewitz]

Artemis demanded the sacrifice

[@benjalucian1515]

The Greek gods on the side of the Trojans kept Agamemnon's ships from sailing. Artemis wanted a sacrifice. Agamemnon offers his daughter and tricks his wife into bringing her, by lying and saying he's marrying her off to Achilles. Big reason why his wife later axes Agamemnon to death after his return.

[@DH-.]

Thunder Dome! Two Men Enter! One Man Leaves!

[@525Lines]

What about gladatorial fights where some were going to die?

[@louise_rose]

Yes, there probably was a religious element in the original background of those games, even if by the time of the empire they had become entertainment. It was also a way pf dramatizing what could happen if you challenged the political order - it's no coincidence that fighting in the arena/getting thrown before the beasts was also used as a way to finish off criminals, robbers and "enemies of the state" (by no means just the Christians).

[@tedpikul1]

It’s been credibly argued that Greek dramatic tragedy (which I love) was an echo of actual ritualistic “sacrifice”.

[@Fermillon9181]

Is the Carthaginian sacrificial practices for Baal of children supported by scholars? Last I understood it was vastly libel by Roman sources speaking of their adversaries they spent a century in battle with, and not actually supported... It's understandable that the Romans would not speak to fondly in historical texts we have today.

[@rcrawford42]

My understanding is there's archaeological evidence supporting the claim. But I've not read the details.

[@michaeljames6817]

A collaborative paper by academics from institutions across the globe, including Oxford University, suggests that Carthaginian parents ritually sacrificed young children as an offering to the gods. The paper argues that well-meaning attempts to interpret the 'tophets' - ancient infant burial grounds - simply as child cemeteries are misguided. And the practice of child sacrifice could even hold the key to why the civilisation was founded in the first place. The research pulls together literary, epigraphical, archaeological and historical evidence and confirms the Greek and Roman account of events that held sway until the 1970s, when scholars began to argue that the theory was simply anti-Carthaginian propaganda. The paper is published in the journal Antiquity. Dr Josephine Quinn of Oxford University's Faculty of Classics, an author of the paper, said: 'It's becoming increasingly clear that the stories about Carthaginian child sacrifice are true. This is something the Romans and Greeks said the Carthaginians did and it was part of the popular history of Carthage in the 18th and 19th centuries. 'But in the 20th century, people increasingly took the view that this was racist propaganda on the part of the Greeks and Romans against their political enemy, and that Carthage should be saved from this terrible slander. 'What we are saying now is that the archaeological, literary, and documentary evidence for child sacrifice is overwhelming and that instead of dismissing it out of hand, we should try to understand it.' The city-state of ancient Carthage was a Phoenician colony located in what is now Tunisia. It operated from around 800BC until 146BC, when it was destroyed by the Romans. Children - both male and female, and mostly a few weeks old - were sacrificed by the Carthaginians at locations known as tophets. The practice was also carried out by their neighbours at other Phoenician colonies in Sicily, Sardinia and Malta. Dedications from the children's parents to the gods are inscribed on slabs of stone above their cremated remains, ending with the explanation that the god or gods concerned had 'heard my voice and blessed me'. Dr Quinn said: 'People have tried to argue that these archaeological sites are cemeteries for children who were stillborn or died young, but quite apart from the fact that a weak, sick or dead child would be a pretty poor offering to a god, and that animal remains are found in the same sites treated in exactly the same way, it's hard to imagine how the death of a child could count as the answer to a prayer. 'It's very difficult for us to recapture people's motivations for carrying out this practice or why parents would agree to it, but it's worth trying. 'Perhaps it was out of profound religious piety, or a sense that the good the sacrifice could bring the family or community as a whole outweighed the life of the child. 'We have to remember the high level of mortality among children - it would have been sensible for parents not to get too attached to a child that might well not make its first birthday.' Dr Quinn added: 'We think of it as a slander because we view it in our own terms. But people looked at it differently 2,500 years ago. 'Indeed, contemporary Greek and Roman writers tended to describe the practice as more of an eccentricity or historical oddity - they're not actually very critical. 'We should not imagine that ancient people thought like us and were horrified by the same things.' The backlash against the notion of Carthaginian child sacrifice began in the second half of the 20th century and was led by scholars from Tunisia and Italy, the very countries in which tophets have been found. Dr Quinn added: 'Carthage was far bigger than Athens and for many centuries much more important than Rome, but it is something of a forgotten city today. 'If we accept that child sacrifice happened on some scale, it begins to explain why the colony was founded in the first place. 'Perhaps the reason the people who established Carthage and its neighbours left their original home of Phoenicia - modern-day Lebanon - was because others there disapproved of their unusual religious practice. 'Child abandonment was common in the ancient world, and human sacrifice is found in many historical societies, but child sacrifice is relatively uncommon. Perhaps the future Carthaginians were like the Pilgrim Fathers leaving from Plymouth - they were so fervent in their devotion to the gods that they weren't welcome at home any more. 'Dismissing the idea of child sacrifice stops us seeing the bigger picture.'

[@benjalucian1515]

@@michaeljames6817 U. PITTSBURGH (US)-New research refutes the millennia-old conjecture that the ancient empire of Carthage regularly sacrificed its youngest citizens. An examination of the remains of Carthaginian children revealed that most infants perished prenatally or very shortly after birth and were unlikely to have lived long enough to be sacrificed, according to a report in Proceedings of the Library of Science (PLoS) ONE.

[@reeyees50]

Cant forget the most famous person to have performed ritual sacrifice on himself, Nero

[@MWhaleK]

As I understand Roman Gladiatorial games grew out of funeral games in which the loser of Gladiatorial combat was supposed to accompany the person whose funeral it was to the after life or something like that.

[@svenhaheim]

I think our view of the Romans would be very different today had human sacrifice been commonplace, glad it was not so.

[@louise_rose]

Well, there was an element of brutal mass repression that's often toned down in modern portrayals of the Romans - it was still completely accepted that if an enemy city was taken during war, the people there could be sold as slaves. And Crassus boasted that he'd had 70.000 rebel slaves crucified along the Via Appia after he crushed the revolt of Spartacus. But the Roman empire (from Augustus and the next two centuries) was a more human and um, caring culture than many other big ancient empires, I figure.

[@svenhaheim]

@@louise_rose it was a savage time but human sacrifice and cannibalism are still considered the lowest and most savage point of human civilization.

[@_robustus_]

Rich men sponsored gladiatorial games to honor ancestors.

[@michaeljames6817]

If the Romans engaged in human sacrifices officially in times of crisis, you gotta think a lot of them were doing it unofficially behind closed doors. The Cataline thing isn't unbelievable at all to me.

[@benjalucian1515]

Except Roman religion was a public religion. There was no point in doing a sacrifice to help the nation in a private way.

[@David-wn8uy]

I don't know if I'm saying the incantation incorrectly or using the wrong sacrificial knife, but I've wasted 4 perfectly good virgins this week and the spell still hasn't worked. Maybe they're not being honest about being virgins.🤔