Humans of Westknits MKAL 2023 Clue 1: Frog and Pivot

[@Ulyssa12]

Some people want to be stubborn and not respect the designers decision and say it's cause they think they should have a choice whether or not to use the old version, but I wonder how people differentiate this from other times designers update their patterns when corrections need to be made. The difference I see is that the designer's reasoning isn't good enough to warrant this change, so they feel wronged to have to start over or pivot (despite still having the resources to continue do so). People being hurt by the initial mistake in design (the designer included!) isn't good enough a reason for them. The designer wanting to create distance between his old and new versions isn't good enough for them. One would think kindness is a good enough reason to frog and pivot, but what gets me is if the reason had nothing to do with them being kind to others they'd do it (we do it ALL the time when we make critical mistakes). But people are being stubborn on principles that rest on being insensitive to the very designer they've purchased from and so enjoy. To these people I say - really think on if that's okay with you! Really consider if that's the hill on which to stand for an MKAL, an activiity based in community doing a beloved activity together. A hill that ultimately means going against the wishes of the designer who wants to be compassionate and wants to put the harm behind us.

[@cathynewkirk6807]

Well said. I completely agree!

[@debbylovesyarn5148]

Stephen West is a CLASS ACT . He handled it Brilliantly. Thank you Irina & Martin for supporting him thru the turmoil.

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you!

[@shirleyeustache3230]

❤

[@carlajewett1091]

Stephen West is incredible! The speed and care he took to rectify an unexpected situation speaks to his professionalism and, more importantly, his humanity. We knitters are the beneficiaries of his character and talent. I still can’t get over how he did it in so limited a time frame. Well done, Stephen!

[@jodyj7216]

Couldn't agree more!

[@Fiberchats]

Yes, it was really great to see him dealing with this unfortunate situation

[@ylennon299]

Totally support Stephen. He dealt with the issue with such grace. Beautiful human.

[@Fiberchats]

Truly

[@audreyfriedman3898]

Bravo, Stephen, especially considering the recent events in Israel this week. Your tears are real and your decision was right!

[@SylviaW2022]

Courageous Conversations. Thank you for following through with this Zoom. In the end, I actually think the outcome of this MKAL is going to be incredibly positive. Our community is so much bigger and more important than frogging some work to take care of others. Stephen West is amazing - and both of you (Irina and Martyn) have handled this authentically and with so much class.

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you!

[@KimClinger]

So proud of him and grateful to the lesson in sensitivity to these issues!

[@CreatrixxeCerise]

Thank you, Martin and Irina, for opening the space for having conversations like this. Maybe there is still hope for humanity - one stitch at a time 😉

[@Fiberchats]

I hope so too!

[@sjorchatodman34]

I was really enjoying the construction of the original clue, so much so that I finished it. The shawl was going to be a Christmas gift for my 93 yr old mother. My son was having a look at what I was knitting, he gasped, "What are you doing mum, you can't give that to Oma, it's a swastika". Then I saw it, I'm autistic so all I saw was the rotating tangent, then I couldn't unsee it, if my son saw it then my mum would definitely see it. My parents were children of nazi occupied Holland during WW2, they saw so much brutality & atrocities, they lost so many family members & friends. I thought I'd maybe embroider a rose over the centre depending on what the other clues looked like. A friend alerted me to the change of design, as my son wasn't the only one who spotted the symbol either, I hadn't checked emails or looked on the Ravelry thread. I'm very impressed with the graciousness of Stephen West and how he approached it. Thanks for this video, I'm off to Ravelry to find one of the alternatives other very creative & talented people have come up with.

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you for sharing your story, I think it’s very important for people to be reminded why Stephen didn’t hesitate to make this decision

[@jamiethrogmorton2540]

I love how Stephen says “knit empathy, kindness and respect into every stitch.” Touché.

[@Sarahpreecenelsonnz]

Irina, I so appreciated your introduction and all you expressed. This is my first MKAL (having vicariously participated as witness to yours last year and inspired by Martyn's Slipstravaganza vlog). The way we approach our knitting is so often analogous to the options we have for living our lives, and encountering each other in community. We can have and honour raw and real feelings, and we can too respond with dignity and respect; look to solutions, and in that process even begin to see the silver linings and new opportunities that were only borne out of unexpected adveristy. Pivot, regroup, knit on. I expected to be able to knit a design as choreographed by Stephen, but this design asked me to move to my own beat, in ways I would not otherwise have done; navigate the fractures and appreciate the ensemble. Despite the unintended impact, the beginning of this MKAL has inspired even more of Stephen West's hallmarks of improvisation, creativity (plus evident humanity and grace).

[@Fiberchats]

I agree wholeheartedly!

[@janetdubbelman6389]

In Stephen’s video explaining his reason for change he mentions that the radiating square is a symbol of acceptance. I just LOVE this ❤ accepting that people are hurt accepting that we can change accepting that we are more than a little bit of waste yarn and time x accepting that we can support and be kind ….radiating out like the square like a pebble in a pond …..let love respect and kindness radiate out. What a man he is ❤

[@Ulyssa12]

This is beautiful! I'm all for kindness for kindness' sake, so this way of thinking really aligns with me.

[@mariawilliams4180]

Irina & Martyn: thank you for holding a space for discussion on an important conversation. I struggled, waffled, asked my non-knitting family members their opinions because I couldn’t see it. My son who’s studying computer engineering said: Mom, geometric designs can sometimes be tricky, give different visual perspectives to different people, different angles. In the spirit of community & support for Stephen, I will happily pivot & support the designer’s changes. He showed such grace & kindness in his response. Cheers & Happy Knitting! 🩷

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you! I think it took a lot of courage and thinking for Stephen to disrupt the MKAL and fix this problem and although a lot of people disagree, demand their money back ( even from me :) scream about cancel culture, I truly believe he made the only possible choice. It is his design, his name is on it, it will stay out their forever and he doesn’t want to be associated with having a symbol of hate on his design. I think he acted with great respect and in very timely manner and my respect for him grew even more. And frogging and pivoting is always a part of knitting for millions of reasons

[@patricialane4971]

Hello from California! Thank you so much! I woke up this morning bummed out about the deflated excitement I felt for the MKAL. Then I watched Stephen’s message, then found your chat… now I feel settled and have a plan. I am halfway thru Clue 1 with a triangle. I have decided to do the second half all in the darkest color (LITLG Baroque- deep maroon) with a pink heart either duplicate stitched or embroidered on in the center of the triangle. This way I can honor Stephen’s original creative process and show love and acceptance for others feelings on this issue.

[@SylviaW2022]

Where in CA? I'm in CA too! (Sacramento area). I finished half of Clue one but have decided to frog and start again. It took me a bit to process and come to this decision, but I want to honor Stephen West, and I want to honor the feelings of others.

[@Fiberchats]

I’m glad you are continuing

[@patricialane4971]

@@SylviaW2022 Sebastopol.

[@patricialane4971]

@@Fiberchats thanks Irina, I love these shawls and the learning process that goes with them. I’m changing the look of it a lot, but just could not bear to frog completely. Expensive yarn and took time off work, so changing enough to honor both sides. It will wind up being a symbol of what happened this year. 💕

[@Fiberchats]

@@patricialane4971 oh, for sure

[@georgianasstudio]

As a designer myself (not a knitting designer, a graphic designer) I'm very aware of how different shapes, colours, words, etc can be interpreted by various cultural groups from all over the world. I did a project in art school where I interviewed a range of people from different backgrounds and their associations with colour. It's incredibly complex to navigate whether people will be offended by a design you've done due to associations they have. I also think that we can reframe negative images from the past by overlaying positive ones.

[@Fiberchats]

Great point

[@MoniquevandeWal]

Thank you very much for airing your views. I have been on the same rollercoaster and it felt like a lonely ride . It is so good to hear your points of view! I was trying to redesign the pattern as I was halfway knitting it, but I could not get it symmetrical (as Martyn was saying as well). When I woke up this morning I decided to start again because Stephen had made it clear that he prefers that his first design will not be knitted. And as he is the designer of the shawl, I decided to knit his design from start to finish. In Stephen we trust 😉 Once again - thank you very much for this conservation. ❤

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you! I’m sure it will be a beautiful shawl

[@scaryspider365]

I love that as one ravelry person put it the mystery has turned into a make your own adventure and we have the opportunity to use our creative skills and community together to pause, reflect and reform.

[@Sarahpreecenelsonnz]

[@Fiberchats]

So true!

[@Sonia-gc8zn]

Why would you want to knit anybody's design if you want it to be your own aventure? Throwing such a tamtrum just because the design doesn't fit your ideas is evil and very dangerous. If you don't like it, you don't knit it. If you want to use your creative skills, design your ítem yourselve. Fullpoint.

[@Angela-gr4vi]

I think this has been handled beautifully and should be supported 100%.

[@cydneyfowler1870]

I was only at the 3rd stripe in section two. I just stopped there. I’m supporting Stephen and making his version 3 gradient square as he re-wrote clue 1. He’s the designer and I trust his vision. I’m sure it will be fine. I appreciate how he handled it with his professional and calm manner.

[@charlot-temisery]

I love how Stephen has handled this whole thing. I have to admit when I first saw the end product of the first clue one I was one of those people who though "oh no that looks like a swastika". I know that a lot of people don't see it that way, but i'm so proud of him seeing people's feedback saying the same thing as I thought, and replying to that with "no hate here! no hate symbols here! if people are seeing this in my design, I need to make a change" and then to add to that, the way he's making sure he's moderating the forum and closing comments when he's not able to do that, I honestly feel like he's doing his best in this situation and I only have more respect for him than before.

[@Fiberchats]

I agree, it’s any designer’s biggest nightmare and my respect for him grew at how he handled it.

[@janetjroberson2581]

Hello from Mounds, Illinois. I don’t think that he meant to cause any harm to anyone.

[@Fiberchats]

No, I don’t think so either

[@valeriea.gladstone6440]

also we as a community have to talk about things that make you “uncomfortable” and not sugar coat. Knitting can change the world!

[@lauralahti1254]

I felt a little bad because I am not frogging as o didn’t see the design and am in grad school and frankly don’t have the time. I discussed it with my German coworker and she helped dispel my negative feelings

[@Fiberchats]

It’s always frustrating to frog knitting

[@kahlascroggins1583]

What a compassionate and empathetic response to such a controversial situation. Stephen West spoke (and wrote) from the heart ❤

[@deb2529]

Thanks for the video. Stephen West has been incredible on this. Without any prompting my color blind husband immediately saw the symbol. Decision made, changing

[@sueholubeshen9960]

Happy sat Martyn and Irena..I never saw the design but, but my parents are Dutch and were children during the occupation of the Netherlands during ww2 and out of respect and love for them and for the fabulous Mr west..I am doing the version 3 and to be honest I am finally learning how to do the circular cast on...love from Ontario Canada ❤❤❤

[@Fiberchats]

❤️❤️

[@nicolelafontaine1720]

I was devastated for Stephen when I saw the controversy, I think he responded very well and I want to thank you all for your openness and your empathy for all.

[@Fiberchats]

I’m sure it was devastating

[@TheBlueKnitter]

Thank you so much for talking about this! You have changed my mind. I wasn’t going to do the MKAL this year but now I have to! ❤❤ I just love the knitting community!

[@Fiberchats]

Join the future zooms if you can

[@TheBlueKnitter]

@@Fiberchats I will try. I’m in the states and trying to move so I will have to work it out. 🙂

[@Fiberchats]

@@TheBlueKnitterbest of luck

[@fayelourenso4839]

Frogged and started the “fragmented” clue one. Stephen ❤

[@marlenefeder8035]

Where are directions for the fragmented one?

[@fayelourenso4839]

@@marlenefeder8035 It is the PinkQueenYarns Funo Merino - Stephen put it in Clue 1 Alternatives forum.

[@jenniferbarrett3272]

Well, I am fortunate that I didn’t pick up my yarn till Friday afternoon. I had watched the entire video for clue 1, but had not started yet when I received the notice from Stephen about the new clue 1 and the reason behind it. So, I just pivoted and started with the new clue. After watching Stephen’s video this morning, I see lots of other options, am changing things up a bit, but mostly it will be the revised clue 1. I think Stephen did an amazing job responding and pivoting to respect those who would be hurt by the image visible in some versions of clue1. Fascism is on the rise. I do not want any part of supporting it in any way, so I am thankful for the change and for this creative and compassionate knitting community! Thanks for an interesting discussion.

[@Fiberchats]

I agree, it was not the thing to brush under a rug. I know it was a very difficult and unintended situation, but Stephen handled it the right way

[@dianaricketts6640]

Thank you Irina and Martyn for facilitating this discussion and giving people a platform to speak up in the most human way we can in a digital community. I have so much gratitude and pride for our international knitting community after watching this. Looking forward to clue 2!

[@Fiberchats]

Can’t wait!

[@firstbytedesigns]

Thank you Martyn and Irina for creating a space in which we can all find our own solution. We all see different things in the abstract, I saw a Celtic knot. We cannot let the opinions of others determine our creative journey. I personally hate stripes, read section 1 and decided I'd rather burn the yarn than trim it every four rows. So I've ignored the color changes and I am using the designer's incredible construction technique drive my color changes. Let's all take a breath and decide what journey we want to be on, delight in the fact that we have the free time to engage in knitting and enjoy each other's company. So I'll be the one at Rhinebeck working on her shawl that looks sort of kind of what you may be making but is more blocky. Knit on my MKAL compatriots, knit on! Together we stitch solutions.

[@Fiberchats]

I’ll be very curious to see your creation

[@chantsbyo]

Thank you so much for having this discussion. I was going to stick with the original design just because I did not want to start again, but now because of you and Martyn 😊 I will frog and have fun designing my own square. Positivity wins every time! Stephen is such a gentleman, I am so impressed with the way he has dealt with this. Lucky for us, Clue 1 is fairly quick. After everything you have said, I cannot in good conscience wear the original shawl. Now I can say that I designed a part of it !!! Who knows where this little adventure will lead me 😊 Happy re-knitting everyone 🎉

[@Fiberchats]

I know it’s disappointing to unravel our knitting, it always is, but I think he asked us to do the right thing and the community came up with many brilliant alternatives

[@knottyyarnies450]

Before I say what I did, know that I grew up in Germany, my brother was born in Germany even. But this is what I did….I did the first half of clue one, it results in a triangle, then I made a triangle for the other side switching colours every 8th row as the clue #3 did, I think it’s a lovely mixture of clue #1 and clue #3. I just have to sew across the middle both together then knit on the 2 sides for clue #2. I’m excited to have found a way that no one will see any symbol in my square now and I only had to frog half. Patrick I love how you put it in the video!!

[@kathrynbrister9184]

Im a "pinwheel/celtic knot knitter, and will stay with V 1. Im very impressed with Stephen and his staff for responding so well and so quickly. I enjoy this group so much. ❤

[@Fiberchats]

They were very officiant

[@georgianasstudio]

Stephen is amazing. I just saw his video and he was visibly upset by this whole issue. He is absolutely inclusive of all people in the community and has been supportive of the people offended by the image. I’m now conflicted because I love the original design. I really feel for Stephen, I would be so upset if this had happened to my design work. I’m a graphic designer, artist, teacher and Sewist.

[@bluejemm]

Loved this discussion! Thank you so much! At first I was just going to keep on going with the original clue design, but then after hearing that someone had a jarring reaction to the design when not knowing about what all the controversy was about I knew I needed to change gears for the second half of my square. I’m halfway done with my square and well - I don’t want to 🐸 it!!Especially since there are no mistakes or issues with what I have done so far. So for me I am just going to pivot! And rearrange the colors for the second half. Not sure what I’m going to do yet. I might just rearrange the colors of the old motif or just knit the second half in the new square motif or maybe just make one large triangle motif in the second half. I’m going to watch the new clue 1 video now. Decisions, decisions ❣️ Happy knitting everyone❣️

[@Fiberchats]

It is an individual decision, but I think these shawls will be unique because of this unfortunate situation

[@bluejemm]

Ok so my pivot is a mohair dare, with a mohair stash dive! 🙌 I’m going to duplicate stitch over the dark color D of the mini center triangles! (and more of the mini triangles if needed). This should visually break up the colors enough where you focus on the stripes and triangles. I really do like the windmill effect of the original construction when you invert the colors of the mini triangles. My color D is a dark bright fuchsia so a dark gray mohair should do the trick! Wish me 🍀!

[@Liz.Green789]

Thank you, all of the Humans of Westknits for sharing your thoughts and projects. Since I am a slow knitter, I will be able to adjust to something quickly. I just am not sure what it will be just yet. Thanks, Irina and Martyn. This was quite helpful and comforting.

[@Fiberchats]

You are so welcome!

[@Lisa-vb3gn]

Thank you for this discussion. It was really helpful and everyone can take a deep breath, use the positive and uplifting comments to find a better solution. Thanks also to Mr. West for being such a wonderful human and positive example to all of us.💛

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you!

[@euniceh9851]

We will have our shawls admired and people will ask about them. If it is identified as a Stephen West design I think we are obliged to follow Stephen's way.

[@Fiberchats]

I totally agree

[@beckyjohnson9917]

Sometimes our journey in life, takes us down different roads as long as you’re able to make the choice of what makes you happy I think that’s what’s important about taking a mystery journey.

[@dearpruknits]

Thank you for holding space for people to share their pains, hopes and dreams in relation to this MKAL, and help knitters navigate their way with kindness and grace through clue 1.

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you Pru! ❤️❤️

[@Lksilk]

What an amazing video! Seeing all these people from different parts of the world sharing how they’re going to knit their shawls!

[@Fiberchats]

It was really uplifting

[@kittygailey5028]

What amazing conversations. Thank you both so much for creating this back up community to SW’s MKAL. The world can only use more “coming together”, so this is a wonderful unintentional side effect of this year’s MKAL. A historic moment and much grace by Mr. SW. I am Team Sita - I didn’t love the first clue’s design, but I felt sad about frogging my work since partly I do this KAL for the direction and structure and fun. But I moved along, and learned and grew, and that is always good. Can’t wait for Clue 2. Best wishes and fortitude to all. 🎉

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you

[@janemarriott3389]

SW-Courageous honorable response. Remember MDK dropped “Dixie”. Dixie Chics too. You own your issue and CHANGE. It’s a positive

[@hill7912A]

Yup - As an Irish person -I see a Celtic knot too. But as a relative beginner, I am happy to start with the new amended square design. Easy to say mind, as I had not started yet.

[@Fiberchats]

Join one of the zooms if you can

[@Magdalena.L]

I’m not seeing „that” symbol, but, like you Martyn saying in Stephen we trust, so I’m going to knit new square version. And I’m glad, cause it’s my first time with magic loop 😊

[@Fiberchats]

A new technique to learn :)

[@robynreid3027]

Thank you Irena and Stephen for this wonderful conversation. I feel I have had all the thoughts and feelings expressed, and have concluded that I have to go with the new version and am now embracing the possibilities! I think Stephen's integrity, clarity of thought, how he also acknowledged a wide range of reactions, how he supported us with specific suggestions was brilliant.

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you

[@janetdubbelman6389]

So lovely to have found this amazing chat thank you I’m from Sydney do will try and zoom on Thursday ❤

[@MR2spyder100]

I'm a watcher this year & feel so bad for everyone, but I must say I love the "spiral" alternative that Martyn will be using. On to Clue 2!

[@michelelegge6287]

Stephan’s reaction to this has been all class. I absolutely loved my version of the original clue one but in respect for him I am not going any further. I have started another shawl with my colours and will see how this unfolds and make one a bit later. I look forward to seeing all the variations

[@susanwood1445]

Having watched Stephens video I have decided to respect his wishes. When I bought the pattern I undertook to join his MKAL so that is what I am doing. I had almost finished. So I am not frogging but treating the 1st square as a swatch. It is not wasted as I now know modular knitting techniques something I wanted to do. I like the new square pattern and now I am learning how to use magic loop. More techniques. This is a change from my initial reaction. Knitting is my pain relief so the thought of abandoning a pattern I like as it reminds me of the peace symbol and heathered mountains was not a happy one as initially it felt like I had wasted time and pain.

[@Fiberchats]

It was my first time trying modular knitting as well. One of the reasons I insisted on keeping this zoom today was to hear different opinions and through this help myself and others to decide how they want to proceed. I’m sure we all went through a variety of emotions before making that decision for ourselves

[@angieanderson6082]

The decision to change to the square was easy for me. I love the balance and simplicity. This experience has been very eye-opening to me and I’m honestly shocked by many people’s reactions. Kindness goes a long way in life and in our yarny creations. I also think that we are extremely fortunate to have *this* as what we are worried about.

[@Fiberchats]

So true!

[@jimmydoesknitting]

I think it's great that you two made space for this conversation. It was really helpful for the community. Hard chats are important. I do think that some of the alternatives put forward are even more beautiful than the original, yet keeping with the modular intention.

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you! It was a tough decision for us, but we wanted to have this discussion with our community

[@jodyj7216]

"Some people will always feel persecuted" is a rather horrible comment to hear. Thank you, Irina, for clearly echoing Stephen's message in response to that. I'm glad to see you and Martyn on KZbin today.

[@belindaf8821]

I was pretty horrified to hear that comment too. We as a community shouldn't be holding space for those comments in light of the reason why this design needed to be changed. This isn't just "feeling persecuted" like it's some tiny issue, this is a hate symbol representing genocide.

[@barbararadzeviciusbondi4150]

Who are these offended people? I think you all what to blame someone for anything.

[@kathywood1994]

Hi, I’ve nearly finished 3rd section, loving it and like Martin just see a Celtic knot, but out of respect will do fourth section in a block colour to break the pattern. Xxx

[@valeriea.gladstone6440]

I had already went rouge with color placement. and missed the situation as it was happening, until I saw someone post. I am sticking with the construction of clue one original. Switching last triangle to “V”’s for victory!

[@Fiberchats]

Great idea

[@nancymorales2741]

Hello from Deep South Texas, Martyn & Irina. Thank you for continuing the conversation. Wonderful to hear the numerous perspectives. 100% respect Stephen’s concerns. Love the way he handled it especially under such pressure. Hope to be able to join your next Zoom. I’m still pondering my options for Clue 1. Hugs!

[@Fiberchats]

Yes, please join the zoom if you can. We will continue this conversation and see what solutions humans of westknits came up with

[@vickieasley9020]

Stephen is a brilliant designer and so sensitive about hurting anybody. I am a beginner knitter and this is my first time mkal. I am changing mine too to respect him and his decision. I am looking forward just to make it through this and see the finished project as my first mkal

[@julieletton4330]

PIVOT! Any "Friends" fans will also have a smile at that :-) This is a unique situation and I'm impressed with how Stephen has handled and responded to it. I've not been able to start until yesterday, and I'm also using a variation of the triangles pattern produced by a test knitter. Onwards! 🙂

[@funkyj25]

🛋️ 😂 🧶

[@katm4823]

I agree with Martyn and just cast on for triangles. I was very touched by the last video Stephen posted and decided to forget the work I did on the original clue and start from zero ❤

[@Neurogod1]

Finding Irina a little heavy handed re: frogging as opposed to people making their own choices.

[@Fiberchats]

I believe that Stephen has a right to change his design due to this unfortunate circumstance. He expressed clearly that he encourages everyone to restart. What people decide to do about it-is their choice. I made mine and explained my thoughts process, but I also invited others to share their opinions on my channel and none of those were edited out. Sorry you feel it’s heavy handed

[@CC-hc6bl]

Stephen’s response made me take a hard look at my own thoughts and reactions. We live within our own perspectives and don’t always understand what others find triggering. In looking at it within that context, I could not in good conscience complete the original design. What I decided to do is to create a hybrid. I ripped back and kept one half in the original design. I am now re-knitting the second half mirroring the new version. Don’t at this time know what the aesthetics of the final result will be, but the combo will reflect the back story and will be a good reminder of the discussion it prompted.

[@Fiberchats]

That’s a wonderful prospective

[@pattigolden1]

I haven't started yet because I had a sample knit to finish (I finished yesterday [Friday], need to get it in the mail, her trunk show is next weekend.... She actually didn't need it for the trunk show, but I was so close I pushed myself to finish so she could have it)... Now I'm torn.... 😢 I DID wind my yarn last night, actually got a S&P kit, gorgeous colors, I have the WALK in Claret. I'm looking at the yarn trying to decide what to do. Martyn is in a unique position where he can make more than one option..... I hadn't watched the first video or read the original printed pattern... I do however have versions 2 & 3. From spoilers, I too saw a Celtic knot........ now I want the version where someone DID make a knot!! I'm REALLY impressed that there's already an updated video as of today...but reading the pattern, I don't want circular... I'm stuck!! And I haven't even cast on!! I only have online knitty friends & most opted out this year...none cared for last year's. I wonder if Stephen has to remake ALL his tutorials now, just to keep that "out of the picture". 🤔 He's amazing!! Unfortunately the "symbol" in question is also a religious symbol in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain communities across the world, where it is also decorated with dots.

[@Fiberchats]

There are a lot of alternative suggestions on Ravelry thread that you can look at

[@anitajohannadrost]

👍😁🥰🍀thank you.

[@chantaleouimette842]

In Stephen I trust as you guys been saying. I am so a newby at knitting i m still struguling just to keep the stitches from falling off my needles, of course i will follow is clues and if i m done with a clue and He decide to change it I will follow. That s how I will learn that s for sure. He is the designer after all , so if says right I go right. I m just very thankfull He put out a new video for the change in clue 1, i was really stuggling there, i never knitted in the round before 😊

[@Fiberchats]

Best of luck to you! Enjoy the journey

[@jo-annefalconer6280]

Thanks it is definitely helpful to hear the conversation. I had all those feelings and drew a sketch and started the new one and pull it out and... now there are so many options I love.

[@Fiberchats]

Would love to see what you’ll make

[@jo-annefalconer6280]

@Fiberchats I will share but really loving post 1955 on the clue 1 spoiler thread

[@dianescott3515]

Thank you for doing this! This is my first Stephen West MKAL and I was really thrown when the first Clue 1 was taken down and the new one introduced. It helps to see everyone’s take on the new squares so that I can figure out what to do. 😊

[@Fiberchats]

Join our future zooms if you can

[@barbaraplant4313]

Stephen did the right thing. I had just started and thought about carrying on however I would never be able to wear something that others saw and interpreted the symbol even though I could not see it. I will now look at the alternative I like and embrace my pace. Thanks for this forum!

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you!

[@kimberlystokes5863]

I had the same struggles. Fortunately I always watch the entire clue video before casting on and saw the image immediately. Stephen had incredible grace and responded immediately. My issue is with the test knitters. How could no one have seen this? And, many of the moderators on the spoiler chat have actually continued to stir the pot instead of diffuse the situation. Thank you for your candor. I've been so unsettled by this I'm out this year.

[@Fiberchats]

It has been very upsetting and emotional and frustrating time. My decision to continue with humans zoom was in hope to help others to come up with a decision after listening to different perspectives

[@susanwood1445]

I totally respect how well Stephen West has dealt with this. However as I had nearly finished I have kept going. I have FND so energy spent on knitting is precious. I too come from a culture that sees Celtic knotwork.

[@Fiberchats]

For me the main point was how Stephen wanted to deal with his design.

[@klarameijer1889]

I didn’t see it either, I did see a celtic knot, so first I thought I will use the original pattern, but the fun was out of it, so today I started all over and I don’t know where I am going. I started to make the triangel if the first triangel is ready I will decide how to go on . There is a version where they use 2 triangels and 2 original triangels, that one looks very nice to.

[@Fiberchats]

Lots of good options

[@priscillakline8285]

I support Stephen, but also respect everyone’s choices! I feel Patrick got no respect at all for voicing his choice: he had valid feelings as well!!!! He should be respected as well as anyone else!!!!!

[@Fiberchats]

This meeting was scheduled long before this situation happened. I could decide to cancel it and wait till dust settles. And because it was prerecorded, I could’ve not posted it, edited out anyone who had a different opinion. Instead I uploaded it here minutes after we were done without excluding anyone or anything that was said. Patrick and I might’ve been in disagreement, in fact some things that someone else said made me very uncomfortable, but I respected everyone’s opinions enough to publish it on my channel unedited. I also invite everyone to join the future zooms. The whole idea of Humans of Westknits was to create a space where we can all participate together not just knit along.

[@omaam1005]

Yeah, Stephen came through like a trooper. Discussion is healing, learning, strengthening for this occasion and on into the future.

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you

[@augusteborowski656]

Chapeau, Stephen!

[@SwankSwanny]

With all due respect we are all individuals with independent thoughts. Personally, I am keeping the original design and I won’t be made to feel bad about it. This is one portion of a much larger design. Sorry not sorry.

[@yevalleywitch1572]

I wish there was a "love" button, you nailed how I feel. Thank you!

[@JesusJoy77805]

This is my first SW MKAL. Want to keep going with the original design. It's too confusing 😕 for me.

[@Fiberchats]

I don’t disagree. It’s an individual decision

[@Merginasumezginiu]

I also feel like us that want to stick with original design some how are now being made to feel like we are not good enough (i dont know how else to explain this). All those that are saying you can fall behind and theres no need to stick to time frame of stating new clue every Thursday. But i feel like thats the whole point of mkal. I dont want to be knitting this shawl in November and December and I also dont have the privilege of taking time off work and my studies to knit clue 1 all over again 🫣😕

[@Fiberchats]

@@Merginasumezginiu the revised clue one is simple and doesn’t take long to knit. I suggest to watch the video that Stephen posted today. He explained it very eloquently. And we we have time to hold this discussion, we have time to knit a few extra rows. Just my two cents. Ultimately it’s an individual decision

[@wendyellis6402]

I am knitting the original design because I find it to be great. NOT FROGGING. People need to grow up.

[@Fiberchats]

Knitwear designers make it easy and possible for us knitters to knit various projects that for majority would otherwise be impossible to knit. Sometimes mistakes are made. It is designer’s decision on how he wants the pattern to look. Stephen made a decision to change clue one in very timely, grown up and gracious manner. It is his design and his right. He made his reasons very clear. It is your right as a buyer of that pattern to demand refund or to support the designer’s decision. You can make that grown up choice for yourself.

[@pamelabastian7860]

I researched the symbol. It says the arms are at 90 degrees and spinning clockwise. Stephen’s pattern has angled arms going counterclockwise.

[@Fiberchats]

I think Stephen explained it very eloquently in his video and his instagram post

[@sorayabeynon7941]

Sorry I couldn't join you on Saturday, I was at a wedding all day. I'm so pleased that you still had your live and hearing everyone speak was inspirational. Stephen reacted brilliantly to the situation and the whole community has stuck by him, offering suggestions and supporting each other. Look forward to joining you on Wednesday xx

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you Soraya!

[@SusiesStitches]

After a lot of discouragement I put the first one on barber cords and started the square. I hate it and after hearing you about creativity am going back to redesigning the first one what an amazing journey it will be!. Totally respect Israel especially after yesterday please pray for Israel ❤

[@suemount6042]

I have to admit I hadn’t made the connection I saw a type of Celtic knot but my son a non knitter did with the comment it’s a bit like the ....thing. I wonder if the Stephens colour choice highlighted it a bit I’ve seen a blue gradient sample and it’s not so obvious. I think Stephen is a very caring person to want to remove that element that can cause such hurt I feel for him so much but I support him 100% it must be so upsetting for him. I want to do the shapes but smaller stripes so the problem isn’t there and it’s more like a patchwork

[@Fiberchats]

Keep me posted on your design

[@dorisenderle5857]

But Steven said the ‘box’ was going to be enhanced by further improvements/ additions. It will turn out amazing in the end if everyone just follows his lead.

[@katibere1966]

I finished half of the Clue 1 square before I saw controversy update video!! I am stuck trying to find how to do the other half 😊😅

[@Fiberchats]

Check out Ravelry thread for a lot of alternative options

[@darrickwhite1986]

I really wanted to see the finished product of the original knit. This new redesign gives me log cabin blanket vibes. I am very mixed on this one, and whatever happens is what it is 🤷.

[@Fiberchats]

I encourage you to join future zooms if you are able. We all have been experiencing a rollercoaster of emotions, and talking about it might help to decide what is right for you

[@wendyellis6402]

Has Stephen’s original Clue 1 actually been censored? If so, I’m very relieved to have printed it out. This whole thing is unreal.

[@jsmultron]

Stephen has chosen to modify his pattern to replace the old Clue 1 with the new one. He also recorded a new Clue 1 video. He explains his reasoning behind the modification very eloquently in the beginning of that video. So no, there has been no censorship, but rather the copyright holder has exercised his right to modify his work.

[@Fiberchats]

Clue one has been changed by the designer

[@yevalleywitch1572]

Why should the majority frog and pivot for the minority who see that symbol rather than the other way around? I understand Stephen has a big heart and is also in damage control but I take offense to being kind of dictated to. I am 3/4 finished with Clue 1. It's like all the work and time doesn't matter so it's all supposed to be wasted.

[@Fiberchats]

The way I see it, it’s designer’s decision on how they want to proceed. We, as knitters have a choice to support them or not.

[@michellemarie1956]

I like the original. Seems some people just look for things to cancel.

[@Fiberchats]

I didn’t feel like people were trying to cancel Stephen, on the contrary, a lot of people came forward with creative suggestions

[@yevalleywitch1572]

Last night I pivoted, out of respect for Stephen, and NOT because of the bullying I received from chats or a forum (they don't hold that power over me and I won't hold space for them), and began the version offered by Pink Queen Knits. IF I have enough yarn to finish, then my 3/4 finished v1 will be placed outside for the mice and chipmunks to tear apart for their nests this Winter. I will not set aside again, or frog; regardless how far along we are or whether or not anyone sees any symbols.

[@teresasundin589]

In the Hinduism the symbol is for the sun god Surya. It also shows how hinduism is about every part/ direction of life.

[@Fiberchats]

I’m sure Adolf was once a very popular name in Germany. Some evil just can’t be undone, minimized, swept under the rug or forgotten

[@teresasundin589]

I’m sorry you took it that they I wasn’t my meaning. I didn’t try minimizing situation I myself is Sri Lanka

[@teresasundin589]

And find insulting couldn’t share my thoughts with out being attacked .with that sad I’m sorry you took it that way.

[@teresasundin589]

Please don’t call me a racist

[@Fiberchats]

@@teresasundin589 I did not call you anything. Stephen made it very clear that it was not his intent to use the symbol. He knows the history of it. He knows that it has different meaning in other cultures. He did not say that he used it because it means something else to him. He was very clear that he does not want to be associated with it. Sometimes beautiful symbols gain different meaning. And some things that used to be common practice ( like slavery) are now unthinkable.

[@bs3009]

I frogged what I had kniited (until section 4 stripe 6) of the original clue 1. I did not like cut so beautiful yarns, so ofren. The problem with the design was the icing on the cake. Too bad !

[@Fiberchats]

A lot of people were complaining about cutting yarn, but I guess with modular knitting carrying the yarn would be too complicated

[@bs3009]

@@Fiberchats Thanks for your response. I understand the necessity to cut the yarn, but it was heartbraking for me... so beautiful (and expensive !) yarns being reduced to scrap yarn length, with the wrong side looking messy was too much for me. When I read that the design could be misinterpreted, I didn't manage to convince myself to knit the whole thing. In my view, Stephen West was right to withdraw his original version. It was my first Mkal. Probably the last.

[@Fiberchats]

@@bs3009 that’s always my main reservation about mystery part of MKALs, one just can’t know what the design will be

[@zoefollis2332]

I've got to be honest, I've felt really down, since I discovered the controversy late last night. I feel that shutting down personal opinion or discussion and imposing one view on people - good, empathic, intelligent adults, is just wrong. I worry for my children, living in a world where anything a person does can be taken as offensive, irrespective of intent - I feel for Stephen in this respect, but I just can't accept being dictated to and judged for my view, which is how I feel his messages have come across. This whole thing has saddened me.

[@cathynewkirk6807]

I have certainly lost the excitement I felt when the KAL started. I’m also feeling judged for deciding to stay with the original design.

[@JesusJoy77805]

AMEN, This world has become too sensitive.

[@SwankSwanny]

Completely agree! While I respect everyone’s “choice” to frog and knit the new version, original version, whatever it may be, I will do what I feel good about. I personally don’t see anything in the original pattern that is offensive so I will be continuing with the original but respect Stephen and how he approached the situation.

[@Fiberchats]

Any pattern can be viewed as being dictated what to do. It’s your decision if you decide to follow the pattern or follow your own adventure. I don’t think that what Stephen did was unreasonable

[@gabisew]

@@Fiberchats I don’t think anyone here is saying what Stephen did was unreasonable. Making an alternative was certainly the right thing to do. But, saying everyone should now make the new version, and making them feel bad about that decision, isn’t kind to those people choosing to knit the original. Just because many people are choosing the original, doesn’t mean we don’t support Stephen West.

[@petiolereads]

I missed the live, but the two main thoughts I would have shared are: 1. While I am with the people who think this is seeing something that at most a vague abstraction of the swastika (which is way worse than no swastika at all, don't get me wrong), please do not diminish its power to hurt and spread hatred by saying that it was only used for ten years a hundred years ago. It is not a historical hate symbol, it is an active hate symbol that is currently being used to foster white supremacy around the world. For me, that's what tips it over into needing modification of some sort. Edit to add: not that being upset about a historical hate symbol is wrong! I'm responding to people who are diminishing others' concerns by talking about it solely in a historical sense. 2. On a more uplifting note, please remember that we in the uncomfortable middle! Many of us are hurt in a variety of ways, and it's up to each of us to move forward in a way that feels right. It's okay to not frog, it's okay to frog, it's okay to feel upset, it's okay to enjoy your pivot. I've been so impressed with how kind and creative everybody has been, and I'm confident that we're all going to get through this uncomfortable middle soon enough.

[@Fiberchats]

Thank you for this comment!

[@julie68k]

I will continue with the original design. I think that those who don't like the original design, don't have to do it. I feel it's totally ridiculous that he had to change his pattern because of someone who thought it looked like something it's not. But we all have a choice and I choose to knit how it was meant to be, which is just as valid as your wish to knit the Karen version.

[@Fiberchats]

You can definitely do whatever you decide, but I don’t appreciate you insulting anyone who chooses to disagree with you

[@yevalleywitch1572]

I agree but I re-watched his KZbin video and more than once he said the V1 center is not the official MKAL Center; to hold onto it but cast on the new center and we should have enough yarn left over to complete the shawl. I take it to mean if I continue to use the V1 then I am not part of this MKAL Community, which was one of my purposes for joining. 🙁

[@anniedarby3554]

I am on the same page as you. Looks like we are in the minority 😂🤡🎪

[@gabrielacanova4625]

I'm in shock. For not seeing any offending symbol and for having to frog three day 's worth of knitting. I'll put my big girl pants on and brave it.

[@Fiberchats]

It’s unfortunate, but it’s also more knitting time

[@ixtlanisabelle]

I am knitting a new clue1 for solidarity to support Stephen... 23:44 is the mn I say otherwise

[@Fiberchats]

I just restarted as well after hearing his last video

[@si29uk]

After the mixed reaction to last year's MKAL, I can see this as being the end of the series in this form. Whilst I can understand the desire not to offend, there was a massive over reaction from a very small number of people who have now caused a lot of disruption and upset to a global community. There is nothing wrong with the design as originally intended. And I have seen far, far, far more comments who share my view that there is nothing wrong with the original clue. Stephen is perfectly within his rights to offer an alternative. But I genuinely believe he should have not withdrawn the original. That would have allowed people to make an informed choice. We are all fully entitled to take our own view on this. But I long for a return to the era before internet pile ons.

[@marinkelmoon2866]

wholeheartedly agree. it seems that the internet is designed to be derisive, people having to always take sides instead of just be. this is my first and last mkal , sadly, since I do love the knitting aspect. but if you cannot even get away from derision whilst doing a peaceful craft like knitting, I rather stay away from mass group movements. sorry, but "in steven we trust" sounds a bit like a cult. I believe in the freedom of decisions and artistic integrity. he is a fallible human being, genius at design, but still human. taking away the original design is damage control from a business standpoint, I understand. those who were offended should never go to India, Thailand or Nepal, or buy blankets from Navajo people, where this symbol is still considered bringing good luck. maybe it was a sign that we should take back the symbol and cleanse it of its evil connotations. focusing on a symbol but then blocking and shaming people is what does the real damage.

[@Fiberchats]

I don’t see it that way. He is a designer and if he doesn’t feel comfortable with this clue, he should be able to pivot. And if people don’t wish to continue, they can request a refund. In the end he puts his name under this design

[@si29uk]

@@Fiberchats with respect, he created the original design and was happy with it. It was tested by his team who, presumably, didn't raise any concerns A few voices on the internet saw something that, quite frankly, isn't there. And this has created a predictable internet panic. I understand the desire to try to please everyone and to avoid conflict. I understand the desire to protect the brand. Offering options is fine. Creating alternatives is fine. But the original version is the strongest expression of his concept. It is what he had in mind from the outset and he was excited to share it with the world. A small number of online voices have pushed an interpretation which I just do not see as valid and created this controversy out of nothing. And that is a shame.

[@Fiberchats]

@@si29uk if it wasn’t an mkal, I’m sure he would deal with situation differently, taking time to redesign something spectacular, but with all the time pressure… it is unfortunate

[@Ulyssa12]

​@@si29ukHe was happy w/ the design *before* the similarity was brought to his attention. The 1st published design was (possibly, we don't truly know) the strongest version of his concept *before* he got new information. And now, with this new info it is no longer so from the designer's perspective. Designs go through many iterations before completion & publication (which don't always occur in that order). Design flaws slip past testers all the time. For Stephen, the emotions & overall experience his designs elicit while & after knitting are clearly a part of the design concept. For him, anyone having this kind of negative experience from seeing similarity to that symbol in his creation is enough for him to feel his design is not doing what he intended. He even expressed he was hurt & embarrassed by the realization that even 1 person had to decide whether to not to give it to their loved one who survived a g3n0cid3. He is clearly affected by the negative impact in the new directions video. So he changed it, has created distance between the old & new design. I see no problem with this, & don't get why people are pushing back against it so much. I don't view Stephen's decision as a reaction to an internet pile on or pressure. It is a designers decision regarding his product & its impact, informed by his own ethics in light of new information. He even said the pressure he actually is feeling is from people saying his should keep the 1st design available or shouldn't change it. & fyi - I am of those who didn't see the hate symbol (until it was pointed out). I still stubbornly wanted to knit the "original" design so bad I took nearly 2 hrs to transcribe it from that 1st video on my phone cause Im traveling & didn't have the 1st pdf. BUT I respect & now understand Stephen's decision - especially cause he isn't reacting to a pile on & instead he is doing what he thinks is right despite the many voices who say he shouldn't change the design. That takes strength of character. So, I agree with you in that internet pile ons shouldn't dictate his decision. If you don't think he should be pressured to make a change by internet pile ons, then why not support a decision that came from his own conscience's reaction to the negative impact of his design (which is what this is, since we should believe what Stephen has told us are his reasons)?

[@janosnemeth5381]

Dear Irina! There is a very interesting shawl behind you on your right side. Could you tell me the name of this shawl? Thank you!

[@Fiberchats]

www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/bjayzl

[@cathynewkirk6807]

I’ve decided to frog and not continue. The joy has gone out of it for me.

[@Fiberchats]

It’s a valid choice

[@nefraial]

I can't imagine everything Stephen has gone through recently. While the MKAL is a mystery to us it is also a mystery as to how it will all go for Stephen and a lot of work even if smoothly. There have been thousands of people waiting expectantly to start. When the original clue 1 dropped many people saw something negative to them and felt awful. Not just the usual few disappointed in a design. Even if most people don't get nasty there are enough numbers doing the MKAL to make up a significant amount of negativity which can't not hurt Stephen. Also, once something is pointed out other people will go looking for it. Automatically. Changing the design to completely omit the suggestion in the seams is the right call. Deleting the first rendition too, for as a mystery knit it would be awful to have someone complete your pattern, especially with red and black colours, then see something that horrifies them in what they've made and be responsible for causing this person emotional harm. What an emotional roller coaster. It's impressive how quickly Stephen dealt with the issue and how smoothly things have not only calmed down but turned into a creative adventure. I have a feeling this is going to be the best MKAL yet. It is definitely not one where the hype is all at the start and by the end become exhausted. We've been hit at the beginning, and we've been given a square that is both not a knitting marathon to complete which but also open to a lot of styles of modification. I'm sure when we get to the final finish there's going to be a lot of happy people. I myself am encouraged by all the wonderful positive people in our crafting community who are participating in this event. So many people so wonderful. I've done a few MKAL shawls now. I decided to make sure I had at least 200g each in several colour options that I could use just in case it was another shawl requiring more than one 100g skein of a colour so I'm not going to run out of yarn. Not that this matters when I'll happily substitute more colour here and there anyway. I finished clue 1 on the first day and am not going to frog it. Not simply as I have plenty of yarn but I plan to make something of it. I'm also doing a quilting version of the square to make my MKAL shawl in a new fashion. In doing this I think I'd like the idea of a "choose your own adventure" shawl lol. Give me a shape and choice of designs and I'd colour it in lol. The MKAL is better than any theme park ride and I hope Stephen continues to gain strength from the good people in the crafting community to keep doing them. We've barely begun this year and I'm already committing myself to next year.

[@Fiberchats]

I’m looking forward to the following clues

[@jentextiles]

I bought the pattern today having seen the original and couldn’t understand it at all. Thanks for getting me up to speed. I’m not experienced so feel lost. I’ll follow what Martyn’s doing but where do I find the pattern?

[@Fiberchats]

There is a thread on ravelry in Westknits MKAL 2023 group with alternative suggestions.