TRANSIT? SPRINTER? PROMASTER? Let's shed some light on this perplexing decision.

[@roberthu4593]

thank for being the first person to get reliable measurements from!

[@datguy2730]

George, I am sure others will echo my following statement. You are one of the G.O.A.T.s for explaining your van builds and helping the community make wiser choices based on his/her chosen van platform! Thanks so much for taking the time to share your insights! Hopefully the van market will comeback to reasonable expectations in 1 to 2 years, since Sprinter dealers are now adding $10,000+ markups over MSRP for their vans especially the 4x4 sprinter vans. The current $10k markup over MSRP for just getting a dealer to put you in their order line is a hard pill to swallow right now so I will wait and live vicariously through your videos! :-) Thanks again George for taking the time to continuously produce these great insightful and entertaining videos!

[@dlg5485]

The industry insiders I've been following are saying the current supply issues will be mostly resolved by summer and fully resolved by the end of 2022. Anyone who doesn't have an immediate need for a van should definitely wait at least 6 months or so before purchasing one. I could never justify paying a markup on an already overpriced vehicle, especially knowing the market will very shortly look very different.

[@susanhabeler3908]

George, you are an unexpected genius. I think I’m in love with you. Thank you for your high standards.

[@traveldreamer4616]

I agree! George you are the goat. Excellent builds.

[@Patrick_Ross]

@@dlg5485 - 9 months later and deep discounts on many models are now at hand. But are they really deep discounts? Vans were seriously overpriced…to the point of gouging…so maybe we need to wait until this winter.

[@dlg5485]

@@Patrick_Ross No, not 'deep' discounts. In my opinion, it is still too soon to buy a van. Prices are stating to fall, but not nearly enough. Interest rate increases will also put downward pressure on prices, but that will take probably 6 more months to play out. The problem is, rising interest rates are making financing a lot more expensive. Those who can avoid financing will be in good shape, but prices still have a ways to fall before anything can be considered a good deal.... they'll get there though.

[@cletusvandamme6262]

This has got to be one of the most informative videos I've ever seen on comparing the interior dimensions of the 3 most popular vans. Having all 3 makes compared side to side truly hits this one out of the park. The wealth of information you give in a readily accessible format will serve to cut so much trial and error out of the build process, significantly shortening construction time and enhancing build planning. You've just racked up another subscriber, Sir. Well done, and Thank You!

[@HumbleRoad]

Thank you Cletus. Welcome to Humble Road! 👍

[@GreenVegan816]

This is the first time in my life I'm grateful to be a short person. It's going to make van life easier. The Promaster is my choice.

[@HumbleRoad]

I strongly suggest you take the Promaster AND the Transit for a test drive. IMHO, I can't achieve a comfortable driving position in the Promaster. It's a compromise at best. The Ford is very comfortable.

[@CallMeVie]

Sharon I agree! 🤣😂

[@MrsFelecia14]

Yea...sorry...would never buy a Promaster.

[@CallMeVie]

@@MrsFelecia14 I can say I drove a Ford extended and I felt confortable driving it in snow So It is my top choice but I don't need it soo big LOL

[@Paces2]

@@MrsFelecia14 why not?

[@globaldemise]

There is no one like you in ‘van life’ builds. You are the best. Period! Thank u.

[@HumbleRoad]

Wow, thank you!

[@ChrisW228]

Your advice is for vans way larger than I will ever own. I just love watching you.

[@moeiniusa]

I learned about all different size between 3 vans. It was very helpful and useful. Thank you.

[@maitildamcintyre9344]

So many people will benefit from this comparison, it’s priceless. So many things to consider when deciding which van to use for their conversion. I remember that shelf you made in your pleasure-way. Of all your builds so far, the shelf in van #1 is still my favorite . Merry Christmas to you and the Humble Road Crew🎄🎅🏼.

[@HumbleRoad]

Merry Christmas to you as well, Maitilda! ❤️

[@FRZNTYM1]

Nice job again George on the comparisons. Those roof supports are known as "roof bows".

[@leonardcroft1467]

Good Morning George Having My Sunday Morning Coffee and Enjoying A Humble Road Video . Thanks !!👍

[@HumbleRoad]

And I with my Vitamix shake, LOVE the Sunday morning ritual of responding to all the comments!

[@fayequinn3184]

I would love to see an update when you get in a 2024 Dodge Ram Promaster 3500 159” Ext wheelbase with SUPERHIGH roof and compare it to the others. Great job on all your videos! Thank you for sharing your expertise!

[@HumbleRoad]

Noted!

[@priscillawrites6685]

Best practical information comparing the three - and the best music of any van video.

[@rickybreaux2607]

Great comparison !! We love our transit coachman beyond! We sleep East to west but I’m only 5’6 . 👍

[@iamyanez6553]

The perfect video I was wishing to find. A vide added to my list to watch it again. Thank you so much.

[@LilyWasHereMB]

I bought the Borg stems for my dually before the van was even converted and I love them! Then I watched a KYD video and became paranoid about tire pressure so I bought a TPMS with screw on sensors; love them too! The Borg stems, being steel, do not flex. Borg stem grommets are thin and prone to ripping during install. Whomever installs them needs to READ THE INSTRUCTIONS before installing the stems and, they'll need an inch-pound torque wrench. Over torquing = air leak. Tip 1: Buy extra grommets from Borg; you'll need them Tip 2: Go with an internal TPMS its worth the extra upfront cost External work fine but are a hassle if air is put in or taken out (think not so humble wash-board roads). Screw-on sensors could be stolen, batteries and o-rings have to be replaced and, the two halves can separate. Tip 3: BIGGEST TIP OF ALL - Have the front tires re-aligned after conversion. My 10,500 - 11,000 lb van showed visible uneven tire wear at 14k miles which resulted in an untenable steering wobble because, per MB, factory alignment is for an empty van not one that has had 3,000 to 4,000 lbs added to it, mostly in the back. MB does not cover this wear under any warranty and cost me $354 for tire rotation and alignment. You'll pay for the alignment either way but, tire wear will be even.

[@leirao1566]

Really good to know!!!

[@DGraham-i3y]

You look cozy in your red jamas. Thanks for the info.

[@Scrambler85]

At 5'16" tall the Transit is the only option. As always a great video and very informative. Always a thumbs up 👍

[@HumbleRoad]

Thanks J.G. 👍

[@duanehundley]

I'm 5'18" and looking at the Transit too. I think my head will give the ceiling a nice dusting.

[@Transit_my-way]

"5'16" 😂😂. Nice. Gave me a good laugh

[@robertparry3476]

George I just viewed a video tour of the new 2023 Ram Promaster and the new very tall version option which is 7’2” inside floor to ceiling height. That could be a game changer for RAM conversions which could allow for floor insulation or floor heating and in the ceiling room for massive insulation or even ducted AC/heat. That’s in addition to the 9 speed trany and the latest cab electronics.

[@HumbleRoad]

YES! Very excited!

[@ChristianTravelers]

You are so right about the Borg dually valves on the Sprinter 3500! We had ours done when we lived in Vegas and drove our Sprinter to the shop in California for installation - excellent! It seems the Promaster is the dimensional winner, except in ceiling height. Further notes on the Sprinter 3500: Don't know if this still true on the newer models but our 2012 has had lots of mechanical problems. In the 4-2/3 years that we've owned ours we have spent over $13,000 on maintenance and repairs (long list of repairs). This is in addition to the $4,400 repair job on the DEF system that Mercedes-Benz comped us because of a recall. Wheel sensors are also an expensive issue we haven't had, although many of our Sprinter friends have. This is all despite the higher MSRP of the Sprinter. All of these repairs have put us off of diesels for the future, as well.

[@christiankamal7549]

it is true that the 2010-2012 or so sprinter had problems with the emissions. This is why Mercedes settled and is paying back sprinter owners about 3600 dollars to fix the problem and added a full 4 years 48k miles warranty. Beside that, still have 3 sprinters post 2015 and 2019, never had a problem.

[@ChristianTravelers]

@@christiankamal7549 Yes, we are waiting for our settlement check, and we are happy that MB paid for the additional $4,400 bill for the DEF heater which totals $8,000 in direct dollar aid, but we still did have another $13k in chassis expenses and we are cringing at the thought of the wheel sensors going out. Glad to hear that you haven't had issues since the 2015 models.

[@lkazanov]

If the Promaster only had a reliable second alternator option, it would be perfect, especially with 2022 changes.

[@MiniatureChickenChannel]

Someone surely makes an aftermarket option for this right?

[@lkazanov]

@@MiniatureChickenChannel sure, but they have the reputation of tearing radiator hoses.

[@MiniatureChickenChannel]

💯 Nice work George.....this will save people TONS of time while deciding which one to pursue! Stay awesome, Merry Christmas.

[@jillleahy8450]

I ended up changing my lifted fridge design on my Transit and moved it to 5 inches above the floor. Some bending but not too bad. It saved the aisle space that would have been lost otherwise. Isotherm 130.

[@globaljuju]

I am so grateful to you for this video. I now know what I want. Huge step for me!

[@laurelkennedy6252]

Fantastic clear comparative: What every serious shopper wants to know! Thank you! At a glance, the key measurements of the three most popular contenders were captured in one photo per area measured, successively; and, the verbal comparisons and clarifications solved the buyer guesswork. The result is a handful of key comparatives that a buyer can rely on and mull over before making such a large purchase. Once again, thank you so much for intuiting what was necessary to understand before buying and for making the effort to relay this important information! PS: Definitely, happy to subscribe!

[@HumbleRoad]

Glad it was helpful! And welcome to Humble Road!

[@cheryl7917]

Great measurement comparison video. If anybody wants a really detailed video of theExtended length Transit measurements side to side and front to back look up "The Queen and Bob" on KZbin. I have a 2021 ford transit high roof ext length AWD. Ruled out MB because of lack of easy access to mechanics when on the road, didn't want rear drive, and didn't think I'd need 4X4. I wanted AWD since I live in a state with snowy winters and I do like a good dirt road but don't plan to rock crawl with my van. I did test drive the Promaster to make sure I didn't want it and to have something to compare the Transit to. I did not like the way it drove at all and don't think it is a high quality vehicle, but.....there are a lot of people who are happy with the Promaster. For those of you worried about the front slope, my son is 6'3 and has no problem with the slope, I've never seen him hit his head. I think George made the comment "if you hit your head more than twice then it's not a problem with the vehicle"...😂 We installed 2 fans one just behind the slope and one in the very back, I have one 340 Watt Solar panel so have more than enough flat space on the roof between the fans. I've put 9,000 miles on my van and I average 16 mpg with the Ecoboost engine, I have got as high as 18mpg, if I go 80 mph it sucks the mpg down to 13-14 but as a general rule I'm not a fan of 80mph in a big vehicle. The AWD has different settings for different road conditions. It has handled really well in heavy snow storms, on snow packed roads, thick icy slush, heavy rain, and in mud and ruts on dirt roads and that's with the factory tires, I plan to upgrade when it's time to replace current tires. It is super comfortable to drive and travel long distances, no problems with low back issues like numb leg or zingers going down leg like I get when I drive my car long distances. Front seats are close together but you get use to maneuvering around them. Ford has a lot of standard features and more great ones you can add that really help with ease of driving and parking. If you have somebody as clever and creative as George building your van you can get a configuration in any size van that will work well and be comfortable. My 6'3" son built out a Promaster city which weirdly is comfortable to drive and ride in. He and his girlfriend have a blast in it, he designed it for their needs, he uses it to get to the destination, sleep, relax in when the weather is bad outside, otherwise they are enjoying the destination, not the inside of his van. I'm really happy with my Transit and can't recommend it enough, but it provides me with what I was looking for in a travel vehicle first and gives me the space to build what I want second. I think test driving more than one brand is wise. I also think doing a lot of research on your own and figuring out exactly how you want to use the van is important and of course your budget plays a big part. Just because a van is on KZbin or Pinterest doesn't mean it will work for you. I love that George doesn't let the "Norm" drive how he builds vans, he looks at all options, creates a bunch more of his own and can create any kind of van into a super useful space specific to the owners needs and wants, I think he takes "custom" to a new level. Looking forward to being entertained and educated through the Transit and Mini build outs!

[@sweetlifeadventure7]

Cheryl do you have a link to "The Queen and Bob"? I'm not finding them.

[@cheryl7917]

@@sweetlifeadventure7 they must have removed all their videos. I had some saved to help with my van build and I subscribed to their channel and can't find anything. I even did a google search. They quit adding videos a while back but I didn't realize they'd removed them.

[@chriscunanan]

What you said about the rear shower/bathroom and front futon bed setup, I’m working on right now! It’s easy to see even at a glance that you’re a master of your craft, which I can tell includes multiple by this point. Amazing editing and scripting for this type of work as well. Please keep at it as long as possible, young craftsman 😉

[@HumbleRoad]

Thank you Chris!

[@VoIPPortland]

The 2023 Promaster finally stepped up the tech. My 2014 is jealous.

[@hughwolfe1176]

George I recently found a full review of your “Sam” van. I absolutely love the common sense approach you’ve takin to designing. Also it’s nice to see some details made for us “oldsters”, steps, height’s etc… I’ve been thinking about a Jeep so as to enhance my ability to get off the paved roads, I’m a landscape photographer and need subject matter beyond what’s easily accessible. Now I’m wondering if a 4WD van would work.

[@jamesgill5511]

One other thing people need to keep in mind when choosing between the three, besides interior dimensions, is where they will be spending a lot of time. The ProMaster being front wheel drive is probably not the best option if the owner will be spending a lot of time in the mountains. Due to weight transfer, built out ProMaster's tend to have traction problems on steep hills. Trent & Allie got stuck once going up a steep winding road in south or central America as well as kept losing traction on a steep hill in NY or NJ with just a light rain. Many others have reported similar issues on forums. As to roof curvature and shower size, have you considered trying a 'hall bath' design like Roadtrek had in their Class B's? It seems like one of the best means of increasing interior space when the shower isn't in use.

[@ab-ym3bf]

Absolutely true, my Ducato based campervan once could not go uphill on a wet cobblestone road in a Hungarian town due to lack of grip on the front axle. And where I dared not go in the sand, the rear-wheel driven vans were laughing at me. Also, my front tires needed replacing every 25.000km

[@dedalom8376]

Thank you for doing this video.. very useful!!! 🙏

[@HumbleRoad]

Glad it was helpful!

[@277kne]

This was an excellent and informative video. I have taken notes on this video and the other measurement videos. Was interested in knowing what the measurement is from the floor to the bottom of the window. They all look similar. Could you mention in a video the floor length of all the vans? I know you have done a measurement video on both lengths of the Sprinter. And I appreciate your comments on the different van sizes and ideas for use.

[@HumbleRoad]

Glad it was helpful!

[@avlisk]

Everything for me always says "Get the Promaster" for building a great living space. But the mechanical/car reliability issues always say "NO". You guys who have the Promaster, would you buy one again? I've had Fords, and always had good luck with them. Thanks.

[@nwezenweze9692]

I have one now am battling with leaning towards the left, hell no, I have been looking for solutions even the dealer don’t want to deal with it

[@tinygnat]

My experience is as a work van user. Since 2015, the contracting companies I've worked for have had both Transits and ProMasters. One of them had a couple Sprinters. These were all hammered on; driven hard and put away wet, so to speak. So more extreme use than what most van lifers/RVers will put them through. The Sprinters had rust issues. They were the not the current generation of Sprinters, which I believe are now made in the USA (did I get that right?) which is supposed to have resolved the rust issue. The diesel engine in one of them worked well if one didn't attempt to drive up a hill. Again, these (two) were second US-generation NCV3 models and hardly a representative sample of the US Sprinter market. Of the several ProMasters we had, they all had the same issues with becoming noisy with rattles, squeaks and screeching, cheap interior body panels made of laminated Masonite that would break and fall off and poor traction on the front drive wheels when hauling a heavy load in the cargo area. Mechanically, those ProMasters went through valve and head gaskets and transmissions like they were regular maintenance items. Both companies decided the ProMaster experiment was a failure and they wouldn't buy another. Now on to the Transits. The EcoBoost engines are incredible. Just tap the pedal and there's plenty of torque to move the van. I haven't seen any rust issues except for on the back door hinges, and that's only on some examples. The interiors are voluminous as long as one avoids the low roof. The 2wd versions don't handle the snow well unless equipped with a limited slip differential. In my experience, I prefer the Transit. That's what I would choose for an RV build. I'd get one with AWD.

[@mctourer5549]

@@tinygnat I have a 2018 Ford Transit 250 2wd and had to replace the tires, ( I live in Michigan) and I will agree that the stock tires in the snow where not good. Went with the Michelin Agilis tires and it took care of that problem, it's not a 4wd mind you but it now cuts through the snow a lot better! I would recommend these ties for any of these style vans!

[@tinygnat]

@@mctourer5549 Michelin makes great winter tires. One of the issues I had was the rear end would tend to go to the gutter on snowy crowned roads. I never had that issue with studded tires on E-Series vans or Chevy Express vans. But you're right. A good set of quality winter tires makes a huge difference.

[@computernerdtechman]

Thank you. That was a VERY interesting comparison between the Transit, Sprinter and Promaster. Gave me lots of food for thought on choosing my van type. Very informative.

[@HumbleRoad]

Good luck! 👍

[@ibda01]

im 6ft 4in and measurementz of these 3 rigz iz exactlty what i wanted to do thx for saving me the run around

[@kevinwittenauer6892]

Thanks for this. It's very helpful.

[@rudivandoornegat2371]

Now this must be the new best van (dimensions) comparison video on KZbin.

[@HumbleRoad]

More to come as I get into the build.

[@НиколайАлексеевич-в6к]

6:39 спасибо. 12:32 " пять лет назад Вы были" героем Выходного дня" спасибо за это выражение, говорит о том что прогресс в любом деле возможен при системном мышлении. Еще раз спасибо 🙏

[@SheridansSojourn]

this is the video I have been waiting for. Thank you!

[@StellarFella]

The Coachmen vans have one design which has a great rear bathroom configuration. The person in charge there listens carefully to all feedback from their customers For example, the special foam used for their mattress cushions are the best after listening to their customers' complaints. No rear garage with that design though. You know I desire rear garage area where at least one seatless HP Velotechnik Scorpion can be rolled in and out. You will eventually encounter clients who want exactly this. The highest riding trikes are the ones with 26 inch wheels. Some have 20 inch wheels all around which contributes to a lower storage profile.

[@moya034]

The decision for me is easy, none of the above :) I like my Chevy Express.

[@freedomdove]

Great comparison video, George. 👍

[@brianchetelat6601]

Ford just said my 2022 Transit 350HD High Roof Ext Dually is scheduled to be started on 17 January. I'm grateful for the timing of you guys getting two Transits in : ) Really looking forward to see what you'll do with that cable pack running down the driver's side inside the living space. Press on friend... : ) appreciate your company's work.

[@jturbo68]

Ive been trying to figure out transit optioning, but find it confusing. What is the wheelbase length of a 350 extended? It seems like cargo vans have 158 Long and 178 Extended but crew cans are 148 WB. I cant figure out how all these items are differentiated. Do you know?

[@brianchetelat6601]

@@jturbo68 Hello jturbo68 , the wheelbase is still 148" on even the extended models of the cargo and the crew versions. Happy to answer any other questions : )

[@jaredday4404]

Another fantastic comparison video. Thank you.

[@lockman004]

For me the deciding factor is the quality of the drivetrain and the ability to get the van serviced and repaired for a reasonable price. That translates to the Transit van. Ford has three times as many dealership / service centers (3,600 for Ford versus 1200 for Mercedes in the USA). As to the Ram, sorry but no way would I buy anything related Fiat or Chrysler. The cost to replace the transmission on a RAM van is crazy money. And repairing anything with the Mercedes name on it costs a fortune and takes forever to get parts. So there are no Mercedes in my future. There are some people that don't care for the Ford Ecoboost engine but I have a number of friends with high mileage 3.6 L Ecoboost engines that need only regular service to get to 200,000+ miles. So that seals the deal for me.

[@輕舟快]

Totally agree.

[@williambotha5864]

Yip, and you're gonna need all of them. I recently used both Promasters and Transits delivering packages in a large metro area at 5,000 elevation in all weather conditions; ~80 miles a day, 150 starts a day, side door openings etc .... During a 12 month period we had to replace every single battery, every single key fob on the Transits. When a driver would report their van had stalled and was unable to restart we knew it was a Transit. We thought it may be the design specs of the power system coupled with the position of the battery outside of the engine bay heat and closer to the ground under the driver seat. The Transit is also higher from ground to driver seat, making it quite a leap for shorter drivers. We NEVER had a power problem with the ProMasters, and as you well know, you don't need a drive train if you don't have power.

[@lockman004]

@@williambotha5864 Thanks for your feedback. With the pandemic raging I'm not going to invest in a new van with no where to go! Take care.

[@lockman004]

@@williambotha5864 I forgot to ask, do you know which drive train (engine) your Transits were. And were they AWD or 2WD? Lastly, they weren't the smaller Transit Connects were they?

[@williambotha5864]

@@lockman004 - they were the extended cargo bay, full height 2WD Transits, I also have a little Connect which is pure pleasure to drive for ad hoc deliveries or return pick ups. The side-doors on the transit cargos also need regular re-alignment - tightening, with frequent employee usage... with 20/20 hindsight I would use lock-tite or a lock washer on those door nuts.

[@melissaweyrick5311]

Big fan of the Promaster, until I got to know the Transit this last year.

[@michaelboileau713]

More Transit stuff please!

[@JackofAllMasterofNone]

What an excellent video. Thanks.

[@HumbleRoad]

Glad you liked it!

[@karppadiem7014]

Incredibly helpful! Thank you so much! 💕

[@HumbleRoad]

You're so welcome!

[@rustyrowan7068]

I love that cardboard walk threw strategy you have

[@arnenystrom4283]

Excellent video, as always. One question that I've been researching, but never found an answer to, which van is the quietest when driving down the highway? When you drive hundreds of miles a day, cab noise matters. I currently have a 136 Promaster and I'm looking at replacing it with something. I like the new 2022 Promaster in that it evens the playing field with a 9 speed transmission, adaptive cruise control, 360 cameras, Apple Carplay, electronic power steering, etc.; however, I'm looking for the lowest decibels (dB) when driving and nobody seems to publish this anywhere. Thanks again for the best videos on the internet about vans, conversions, 8020 and other cool technical stuff!

[@HumbleRoad]

road noise can be addressed to a degree in the build process with sound dampening and insulation.

[@Greybeardmedic]

Yes, there are some excellent sound deadening materials to minimize road noise.

[@arnenystrom4283]

My issue isn't with noise from the rear of the van, I have a carpeted bulkhead partition and floor sound deadening for that. I could have dishes breaking in the back of my van and not hear it. My issue is with engine, drivetrain and wind noise. Since you sit almost on top of the engine in a Promaster and the muffler is almost directly behind the B pillar (going widthwise) it's a noisy vehicle. I loaded an app on my phone and measured 50dB inside with the vehicle idling. At 60mph its 75dB-80dB. At 80mph it can get as high as 90dB-100dB. All coming from the engine, wind and front tires.

[@posteroonie]

Tire choice can make a big difference too. Tires that are good in snow and mud have to be noisier I suppose.

[@YT-MY]

A future comparison could cover the available safety systems and typical upgrades. Thinking of standard passenger vehicle systems like stability control, emergency braking, backup camera, TPMS, etc. Also upgrades to suspension and tires if generally required. Similar to your recommended valve stem upgrade.

[@bengreene9072]

I highly prefer Transit's backup camera. Even if you have the cheaper version with no guide or steering lines. The Pro has awful camera quality and won't adjust exposure for seeing at night. At least in my experience so I just use my mirrors. However at night I can't really see with the mirrors either so I scout before backing up. Haven't used a Sprinter so can't say

[@Stewbular]

I get excited every time one of these new videos shows up in my feed Just wondering Are dimensions available from van manufacturers? If so, how do they compare to putting a tape to the actual vans? Would van after-market makers/manufacturers share their measurements? Any variations in various individual vans of same model? Has our hero, Lonesome Roads (or 1 of his minions), created CAD models for his CNC? Many Architectural product manufacturers provide DXF 2d & 3D models of their products. Do the van manufacturers as well? Just wondering

[@НиколайАлексеевич-в6к]

👌👌👌Ford Transit Van-Free AutoCAD Block AUTOCAD DWG BLOCK COLLECTION

[@minutemark]

🎅 Merry Christmas, George!

[@HumbleRoad]

And the same to you, Mark!

[@StellarFella]

Baltic Birch has always been great for making drawer bodies and for panels. Alex knows this already. It was only available in 5 X 5 sheets. But bamboo plywood and dimensioned lumber are two things coming on strong.

[@gamerdan2310]

Saw this video, saw you subfloor video...wow! Instantly subbed!! Very very excellent presentation for a novice DIY guy like me! Wow!

[@HumbleRoad]

Thank you 🙏 welcome to Humble Road!

[@nfr3416]

George - thanks muchly for all your van building videos & today’s display of the trinity, and maybe to commend you on several of why you are at the top of the heap - are your rejection to burning lpg, true believer in ventilation and enabler of best practices, but still not rejecting petroleum over solar and having just branched out to gas vs. diesel. I digress since I would like your specs on the bracket set-up you figured out for the 80/20 running boards. Ours is a ‘21, 170 4x4, I am a bit getting old, so I need to fine-tune the height & the in-ness/out-ness of my foot on the step. I do remember also your un-happiness in a different company’s bracket system for attaching roof rails to 80/20 - there was a quick mention later that you had found a solution. I live with-in an 8 mins drive of good welders, but it’s the actual bracket-to-van-underside details that I need. Thanks Again & Best to You & Yours for Xmas & 2022 ...

[@HumbleRoad]

Thank you Frazer, for such kind words. Bracket kits can be purchased and I do use them where possible. And I also made my own running boards and brackets on van #1. It can be done.

[@DaedalusMack]

Just started getting serious on my plans to do a van build and was torn between the Promaster and the Transit. This is something I couldn't find anywhere else even on manufacturers website. Super enlightening video and helped make my decision 1000 times easier thank you so much.

[@lucydoyle9010]

which one did you decide on ?>

[@DaedalusMack]

@@lucydoyle9010 I had decided that the Transit was going to work best for me until I went to the dealership and learned they were sold out for everything they were making up until 2023

[@lucydoyle9010]

@@DaedalusMack I think it will be the same at all dealers??

[@bob4465]

Hello, thank you for sharing your knowledge and opinions on Class B travel. I particularly like your analytic mind, not often found in artists types! You previously mentioned your tire valve stem source for Mercedes 3500 with dual rear wheels. I had a terrible, expensive experience dealing with valve stem extensions. Never again! I recall the place was in Sunland-Tujunga, CA. I thought I wrote it down. Please repeat the source information.

[@HumbleRoad]

Search: Borg tire valves

[@johnspoelder6630]

Wow! What a detailed video! Curious if you have done any cottage looking buildouts? The wifey likes white tongue and groove and white cabs with wood tops and black hardware.

[@Cargovanservice]

Loved this video, searching for cargo custom

[@williambotha5864]

I recently used both Promasters and Transits delivering packages in a large metro area at 5,000 elevation in all weather conditions; ~80 miles a day, 150 starts a day, side door openings etc .... During a 12 month period we had to replace every single battery, every single key fob on the Transits. When a driver would report their van had stalled and was unable to restart we knew it was a Transit. We thought it may be the design specs of the power system coupled with the position of the battery outside of the engine bay heat and closer to the ground under the driver seat. The Transit is also higher from ground to driver seat, making it quite a leap for shorter drivers. We NEVER had a power problem with the ProMasters, and as you well know, you don't need a drive train if you don't have power.

[@LJ-jq8og]

Sad to hear but I have spoken with mechanics who tell me the sprinter costs a fortune so dont go there. Promasters have Russian-roulette transmissions and other mechanical defects that make them horrible for the long run. They all said transit was most reliable mechanically. Hearing what you experienced makes me think I should wait for a Tesla van... :(. Probably 5 years out... Do you think your experience had to do with the elevation ?

[@williambotha5864]

@@LJ-jq8og - true on the Sprinters, others in our sector have them and they hated them! On the Fords - I love the Ford, always had at least one Ford in my personal garage. My perception of the Transit 250 is that the ignition and electrical system are not adequately designed for small parcel cargo delivery at a rate of 100-plus key turns per day, 360/365. I had ten Transits in my fleet and every key snapped off the fob, and every battery had to be replaced. The fob failure may be related to the steering / ignition lock on the Ford and the Battery failure may be related to its position under the driver seat, closer to the cold, out of the warmth of the engine bay. They are also on the fat / tall side and have way more problems under carports, low-hanging trees with inexperienced drivers. On the Promaster - they are well-built, drivers love them and none of the teams that had them noted transmission issues - although it must be said that all of our vans were trashed by the time they got to 100,000 miles ... the only vans of the three that showed transmission issues at low mileage were the Sprinters. Now - don't get me started on step vans!

[@rmproute66]

The Promasters all have the same 3.6 Pentastar Engine and 62TE Automatic Tranny (Front Wheel Drive). It’s the same as the 5th Generation Dodge Grand Caravan/Chrysler Town and Country/VW Routan.

[@LJ-jq8og]

@@williambotha5864 Hysterical about the sprinters, I was IN LOVE with them until I spoke to owners at gas stations and was in shock at their headaches and hassles. $$$$. Even getting service was a pain in the ass as only certain locations were "sprinter qualified" and then they treated individual owners poorly too. KZbin/instagram are so misleading as to the truth. My only hope is that with the transit if I am not using/treating it too harshly then likely to last longer--common sense I guess. From your post it sounds as though step-vans are even worse. My other take away from your helpful insights is that I will never buy a used van unless I know its true history. Think how many people buy used vans from parcel-delivery services not realizing that van designs are in essence "disposable" after being run hard for a year.

[@esehavek1]

@@LJ-jq8oga transmission for a Penstar is CHEAP. U could swap that thing yourself lol

[@helloeveryone906]

Thank you for your informative 👍. It helps for future buyers.

[@HumbleRoad]

Glad it was helpful!

[@notanomad9320]

Excellent, dimension video between the different brands but there are other considerations to take into account like overall cost and cost of maintenance when deciding which chassis to use. While diesel Sprinters are great vehicles, they can be very difficult to find a place that can work on them along with the cost. My understanding is the Sprinters made after 2007 have to meet strict US emission laws that make them very complicated along with the fact environmental laws may one day make them obsolete for personal use. The popular Ram chassis is made by Fiat Ducato and has issues of its own but there are a ton of them out there so I would expect finding a place to service them would easier. It's really a shame that GM couldn't come up with high top van to compete in this market. My older Roadtrek has the Express chassis which is pretty reliable and any shop should be able to work on it. I think the reason Roadtrek stopped using that chassis was the additional cost of cutting the roof and adding the high top. I like the way George thinks, he seems fully aware of all the challenges of these van builds and how they affect the overall design, performance and handling of the vehicle.

[@HumbleRoad]

You might be interested in a comparison video I did a while back, where I go into some of the details you describe here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i36QZ52nm916nas

[@notanomad9320]

@@HumbleRoad, spot on! Thank you.

[@JohnsDeb]

Very informative video! Thank you

[@HumbleRoad]

Glad it was helpful!

[@FRZNTYM1]

Curvature in the body sides are referred to as "tumble home". These are the terms we use in body design.

[@Bodybuilding101Yeah]

Thank you for this video .

[@waynec2962]

This was the exact video I need to determine which van is the best van to build on measurement-wise thank you! just one measurement that was left out was the height from the floor to the horizontal pillar right where it dips into where a window would be placed. just so I know how high the platform bed would be off the floor? garage height as well lol

[@HumbleRoad]

In my two cardboard builds (250 and a350) I left a 33" clearance under the garage for bicycles and sliding trays.

[@waynec2962]

@@HumbleRoad awesome thank you

[@leirao1566]

This is soooo helpful! We have a new Sprinter 3500XD and we are ordering the Borg Dually Valves now. Question about the tire pressure monitoring system - you mentioned adding the sensors inside the valve... I've never heard of that as an option. Do you have a recommendation/link? We really want to have the ability to monitor tire pressures, having experienced some blowouts in our RV quite a few times! Thank you! Love your videos!!

[@jodymooney255]

We just installed the TST inside the rims of our LTV and I love it. Hope this helps. With tax it’s ~$750.00

[@leirao1566]

@@jodymooney255 Yes it does! I think that's what we will do as well, much safer to have them installed inside. I guess with this setup - Borg Dually Valves and inside sensors, it'd be hard to rotate the tires... Well maybe that's not necessary.

[@tonyo.8623]

Well done George. You’re a class act.

[@sunflowerseeds8007]

Would have loved some analysis from you. For instance: 1. Tall people, go with a Transit? 2. Easy to build out? RAM since it is boxy? 3. Most usable space? 4. Any other thoughts?

[@HumbleRoad]

I’ve done that sort of editorial in past videos. Random thoughts pertaining to the job at hand.

[@nz4983]

Real World Experience: I'm 6'4" tall and had a 2020 Winnebago Travato GL (bought it due to COVID and the wife wanted to "Glamp"), sold it after 90 days for MANY reasons. Prior to the Travato I had a bare bones stock 2015 Ford Transit 250 Mid Roof (rolling metal tent for my cot, lawn chair and dual sport motorcycle) and currently own a 2020 Ford Transit 250 High Roof (with Adventure Wagon interior kit and most of the "van life" luxuries...wife is still traveling with me). I've looked at MB High Roof vans (Storyteller Overland, Air Stream Interstate, etc.) at Van Expos. With that, the real world part of all this is - I can't stand up straight without tilting my head in a MB, my head rubbed the finish ceiling of the Travato and I have inches to spare standing straight up in the 2020 Ford Transit 250 High Roof (Winner). PLUS I love the twin turbo ecoboost engine that Ford offers.

[@Steven-e7c]

@@nz4983 There's a new super tall roof option on the 2023 Promaster. It give an extra 10 inches on their high roof making it 7ft 2 inches from floor to ceiling.

[@StellarFella]

Uni-strut kits are in your future. Standardization of structural members will increase your production. Reliable templates are increasing in numbers. Bamboo products are in your future too.

[@althecampervanman1619]

Giving back to the community in spades with great comparative info......well done George.

[@HumbleRoad]

Thanks 👍

[@Tully3674]

Thank you for this video. Very helpful!

[@HumbleRoad]

You are so welcome!

[@Benham_Design]

The measurement I'm interested in is between tire wells. Does a full sheet of plywood fit between them?

[@jemhadar5029]

Dually is not good for pallets. Pallets won’t fit between the wells. There is not enough room between the wells compared to well on just 4 tires

[@jemhadar5029]

That measurement between the wells in dually is really the most important measurement on the dually. Basically renders it useless. You’ll never carry enough weight doing expedited for dually to matter anyways. Dually is useless imo

[@FromShetoMe]

Up early to watch my fav.

[@StellarFella]

The science of temporary thermal window covers are something to watch. A narrow deep shelf over the cab is a good spot to store them or something else could be designed.

[@HumbleRoad]

I agree. Window treatments are my weak spot and must be addressed.

[@StellarFella]

@@HumbleRoad - slightly over sized spongy thermal pads can be forced into the window openings while sleeping and for overall warmth. The pads can have a thin sheet of reflective material on both sides. The outer edge is all that needs to be over sized and spongy for a tight fit around the edges. Small magnets can be recessed in two places at the top, bottom, and sides if necessary. and the inner foam pad can be of a stiffer kind. A thin coating of something can cover the recessed magnets to prevent scratching.

[@realeyesrealizereallies6828]

The Ford Transit is most certainly your best bet in bang for buck and reliability..Ford has been building trucks for a century..I would steer clear of any Dodge product and its not a fanboy thing it's real world mechanics and a quality thing, and the Mercedes just have so many technology issues..I wouldn't pick a van based on space, but reliability, and value instead..

[@johnmca5643]

You and I think the same.

[@HumbleRoad]

Agreed. You speak my build philosophy.

[@chriscunanan]

Thank you guys for the added consensus of input, it’s nice to know when you’re thinking along patterns with people further along than you. Thank you for your informative video sir!

[@JamesBond-zd5jx]

I’d much rather have the Ford.

[@cooperc4060]

Interesting you say that. I bought a new 2020 awd t250 transit with the 3.6 ecobboost crew cab. At about 11,000 the drive system is falling apart. Been to dealer 3 times now. They dont know what's wrong with it. Ford Corp is saying its fine and they haven't even seen it. Worse purchase i ever made to be honest. Now i have a 55,000 dollar POS.

[@seanhuang8894]

great comparison!

[@lifeordeathllc3022]

Very thorough video. Measured the entire interior of the truck yet my perplexing decision is based on the measurements between the wheel wells. Gave measurements in front and behind the wheel wells but not between. Did I overlook something??? Is this not a valid measurement?

[@JohnnyMotel99]

It's called the tumblehome, the tapering effect.

[@marshallsokoloff]

It's worth noting (as someone with extensive dually experience) that if you intend to drive dirt roads with any frequency, rocks can get stuck between the wheels and destroy two tires in no time at all. Your spare will still get you to a service center when this happens, but you'll be on the hook for 2 new tires at the very least. Ford sells it's 3500 with a "super single" option which is the way to go IMO

[@MrsFelecia14]

Sprinter’s 3500 has the SS option too. We just ordered one.

[@HumbleRoad]

A very good point, M. That kind of issue should (hopefully) surface in the initial discussions on want, needs and must haves..

[@HumbleRoad]

A big concern of mine with the super single is its ready availability when you need them most.

[@marshallsokoloff]

@@HumbleRoad I think it's part of a greater discussion about whether any van is suitable for your intended use. If you're regularly on less-improved roads, certainly clearance will be a factor as well. The Transit AWD is lifted somewhat, but the long WB version that is so popular has a very long overhang that gives it a not-great departure clearance. I'm not talking "rock crawling" at all.... just the ability to head out on a sandy rutted and rock strewn road to some of the more secluded BLM sites in the west, or even Baja Mexico. I'm a big fan of the biggest dually Transit -- which I use at work, but I'm saddened that it wouldn't be the best to take me where I want to go unless I maybe mounted skid plates and a front/rear winch. It's a great vehicle otherwise, and if you have mostly improved road dreams, I think it's the best of the bunch.

[@matthewhart626]

One of the helpful things in the Sprinter vs Promaster video was the comparison of running electrical, and how the Promaster has unobstructed runs whereas the Sprinter has blockages that presumably must be drllled through. But how about the Transit? Is it easy to run wires and things?

[@HumbleRoad]

Look for my more recent video on the Transit as it compares-

[@mattsolomon6292]

Front shower, drain pan in a toe kick that centers over a plugable drain. Parachute curtain stored in the front shelve bar. Whole thing over a max fan, or even shower with the slider open.

[@HumbleRoad]

That’s a great set up for the younger crowd. Older folks seem to prefer a semi permanent set up. 👍

[@mattsolomon6292]

@@HumbleRoad you don’t build for old people you build for adventurous people who have aged gracefully enough to afford your services. 😉 In the back relocate the spare tire in the sprinter. Drop in a box with plumbing, and the drain pan. A better travato K. If you need semi fixed structure for a front option then isn’t it time for a wall in front build? No peeping eyes through the cab, much safer in an accident, better temp retention, lots of flexibility and you can still have a pass through. Happy new year, thanks for all the content!

[@HumbleRoad]

@@mattsolomon6292 best to you Matt. Thank you for your contributions. 👍🎁

[@diggiediggz]

for so long I thought that the Sprinter was the best option, turns out the Ford Transit is even better!!

[@HumbleRoad]

I used to think the same thing!

[@JB-eg1tb]

How about which one drives and handles load capacity better? I've heard that ProMaster struggles with driving uphill? Thanks and quite helpful video!

[@christiankamal7549]

I have no interest in misleading people. If handling is your concern, do not even think twice. Get the Sprinter. If you leave in Los Angeles, I can demonstrate to you the incredible safety of the Sprinter on any road.

[@bengreene9072]

FWD doesn't handle heavy load so well. RWD will always handle payload better. I can't speak for the Sprinter, but Transits have treated me much better on steep roads or rural roads or both

[@christiankamal7549]

Transit roof is very thin and cannot in fact handle much weight on its roof. I believe that it was done to keep the center of gravity within acceptable norms given the fact that the base of the transit is narrower that the top. Add to this the ridiculous size of the tires, and one would easily understand that the transit is not really safe to drive beyond a certain point. I tried the mid roof transit cargo van. Not saying it is a bad van. But it is not for me and I can drive vans like no one else does, without bragging about it.

[@bengreene9072]

@@christiankamal7549 I'm a courier so all my payload is kept on the floor. However. I will be keeping this in mind for a project van

[@christiankamal7549]

@@bengreene9072 i will try to find n the specs. But it was significantly gone than by the sprinter and pro. Master

[@Trenchant468]

Wait. You’ve got a Pleasure Way? I need to know more. Which one? Only one? Do you also have your own carom build? And…if you choose a small van (18’ or less%) for a build, what would be your pick?

[@stingrayshark9373]

If only Toyota would export their full-sized cargo van to America.

[@garthlocklin6355]

I agree, I would pay up for a new Toyota Hi Ace. Why can't Americans enjoy a reliable large van?

[@RJGilman1967]

Brilliant. Thank you, I have not seen this done beore on YT. Much appreciated. Best to you.

[@HumbleRoad]

Glad it was helpful!

[@robislookin]

First and foremost I want to say that your videos are very informative, and it’s the information that is needed. Could you please share some more information about the different vans, you give the measurements on how wide, but I need the height measurements as well. Exp. From the floor to the first level you measured on the width. At the 1:10 mark on the video.

[@robislookin]

How high are the windows and tall are the windows as well

[@behuninator]

looks like I'm late to the party... but... George, did you measure between the wells on the transit SRW? Asking for a friend!

[@mja68tx]

You are a genius George.

[@crauzcraun774]

thank you so much

[@dedalom8376]

Please.. do you know what is the hickness of the sheets steel use on the floor and roof of this this vans ? Gauge.. mm.. any info would be great.. thank you in advance

[@HumbleRoad]

No idea

[@MykSr]

Hey George, … as long as we’re discussing tires and custom valves … are you familiar with Counteract Balancing Beads? I use them in all my class 8 trucks and they work like a charm❗️😎 I also use, and have had good luck with “Pilot Sleeve” … they perfectly center the wheel on the lugs. (definitely not a sponsored endorsement, I’ve just really seen a difference since we’ve been using them)

[@HumbleRoad]

I have heard of both products, but have no direct experience with either. 👍

[@robertgedzelman380]

I am interested in the Winnebago EKKO, on the Ford Transit cutaway platform. It has MAYBE a 7" road clearance, not a whole lot. Recently, I saw a Sprinter dueli (spelling?) extended length van and it seemed to have much more road clearance...9" perhaps? Maybe one day you can talk about road clearance and some tricks to perhaps increase road clearance, especially on both Transit and Promaster...if such is possible Thanks for your great videos!

[@chriscunanan]

Raising/suspension mods for something like this are a whole different ballgame. Too much cost/risk/small of market for anything but a few to be toying with. Check out the Chevy/quigley conversion sector guys, since the overheads are lower and more out there, more people have played with modifying the suspensions/outcomes and found what to pay most attention to. I’ve seen some of them clear 5 gallon buckets (a lot more than 7 or 9”). You better have money to straight Burn though.

[@robertgedzelman380]

@@chriscunanan Thanks very much for your valuable input...and yes, the $$$ can add up quickly, and if things aren't done "right" it could be quite expensive to try to fix 'right'. Jim at "The Fit RV" (he's an engineer by trade) did the VB air suspension on his new EKKO...maybe gained 1" in road clearance, (and ditched his spare tire) but more than that, he stated that when he got his EKKO, he began doing a number of things (including adding FIVE lithium batteries), changing his propane's stove's position and exchanging it for induction, and putting the sink where the stove was) which added to the overall weight (5 Li+ batteries - whoa!) and that stressed the factory springs. Jim stated that the air suspension improved the ride significantly; that the vehicle's stability and bump/rough road handling improved dramatically, but on his blog, he also stated that 99.9% of the driving was paved highway, which I kind of doubt it's that much, but perhaps he said it as a disclaimer. At the Overland West show this past September in Arizona, I met with the Quigley folks and they said a 1-1.5 inch lift was reasonable, but more likely accomplished by simply buying tires with a larger radius, and making sure they fit the wheel wells. Quigley folks also said Ford Transits don't do well with anything approaching even a two-inch lift, so "be careful". On a side note, they told me that a true 4WD is superior to AWD, but I still don't know the reason except perhaps if one wheel is freed off the surface, it might spin uselessly in AWD whereas in a 4WD, the power to that uselessly spinning wheel would instantly be transferred to a gripping wheel on the ground. ANYHOW...with 6.5 to 7 inches of (factory) road clearance, that's not a whole lot so the EKKO is only safe on relatively smooth gravel roads but certainly would be at risk on rough, rutted roads with larger rocks protruding, or sudden "aggressive/challenging" surface transitions where the (fore/aft) center of the vehicle could be damaged, and that could prove absurdly expensive if towing is needed (ugh). I don't want to go where Jeeps and ATVs go, obviously, and I'd like to get a bit off the beaten path on "relatively smooth ever-so-slightly rough unpaved roads". The Sprinter van chassis with dual rear wheels seems attractive (9" clearance), but Winnebago only builds the EKKO on the Ford transit cutaway, with the little wheels to keep the bed low for the largess of Ford transit customers...van delivery folks. I also heard that the Sprinter chassis is quite a bit more $$ than the Ford Transit, and that it rides "better", but if repairs out of warranty are needed, the Sprinter could cost a veritable fortune. Again, Chris, thanks and be safe and well!

[@bill1908]

what is the height of the cargo beds as measured from the ground? do you know of any tradeoffs one would have to make if a braun under van lift was needed? e.g. water tanks couldn't be installed under the van etc

[@YT-MY]

Really great basic dimension comparison. I too am considering buy vs build option. I would think the manufacturers would just publish a 3D model for all to use. I can only imagine they can't guarantee accuracy of their builds or they make too many variations over time. A simple tool for users to make basic space planning would be great and could be a real sales booster.

[@HumbleRoad]

You could block off an area in your residence somewhere and do a cardboard build.

[@YT-MY]

@@HumbleRoad great suggestion. I would like to trial a scaled-down German layout with folding twin beds. The desire is dedicated beds that enables equal bed egress for a couple. Raised Chaise lounge or Murphy style that overlaps countertops or dinette seating in sleep mode.

[@ab-ym3bf]

I use sketchup for my plans of van build (or house design for that matter), the warehouse has a good Ducato that seems pretty accurate.

[@HumbleRoad]

I start with SketchUp as well. The warehouse is a great resource. And as you continue to build with it, you amass your own library of components.

[@YT-MY]

Really makes more sense over purchasing a new vehicle and having it depreciate for an extended time working out the design and sourcing components. In my past work life I have worked with several designers (interior design) that were very proficient with Sketchup but my experience is limited to 2D Visio and schematic drawings. My past attempts with Sketchup have been failures. I really need to revisit this. Would like to have a Transit model to start with. Ideally I would like modular component approach that would allow removal and replacement relatively easily for service and upgrading.

[@michaelgilbert6437]

It’s easy to move from the front of the transit to the back in our van at least. (Juniper)

[@avlisk]

A rear bath with inside/outside shower option is a must-have if one has a terrible terrier in the family. They love to get wicked dirty.

[@jaytabac6525]

which of the two (Transit vs. Promaster) non-extended vans gives you the most length to build inside the cargo space. Assuming that you go with the longer wheelbase.