MELEE IS BROKEN (Reaction)

Ah Super Smash Bros. Melee, what a wonderfully PERFECT game... Except when it isn't. Look, as much as we all love it, there's A LOT that is broken with Melee - and it's time we react to everything broken we can find about it!
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#Hungrybox #SmashBros #SmashMelee #SuperSmashBros

[@Heeew]

So with that, I think this was the last of the broken videos. Thank you HungryBox and everyone for watching, it means alot to still have eyes on my videos after all these years. I love smash and its community truly.

[@mrelectrodude9391]

The man himself!

[@hedgethewedge]

DUDE HEEEW NO WAY ITS YOU! Sad that you can't make a Smash Remix is broken or Project+ is broken, I would have loved a video like that from the real man. Seeing you cover Sonic in Smash Remix would be amazing.

[@SMEARGLEX75]

Thankies for giving us laughs too.

[@keepinitlow]

didn't expect you to reply

[@nanashi2146]

These videos are great dude, I've rewatched them many times and I don't do that unless I really enjoy something

[@freeformboozler]

fun fact, roy's broken moves (dash attack/up air) actually use the same active frames as marth's version of the move by mistake, because roy's animations are slower the attack ends far too early and the moves effectively become awkward shoulder checks more than sword slashes.

[@nk-62782]

5:20 this is very funny in light of Junebug’s top 3 finish at Supernova this past weekend

[@JnathanPork]

Fun fact phantom arent actually when you’re one pixel off of an attack. It’s hard to explain what really happens but a video by Asum Saus explains it well

[@swordsmancs]

to summarize: melee measures everything in 'units', and when a hit and hurtbox overlap by one 'unit' it's a phantom it might be a percentage of a unit and not a unit outright tho

[@alexcool3345]

@@swordsmancs 0.01 units iirc?

[@flow185]

Oh yeah cuz pixels in a 3D game as a unit of measurement makes no sense

[@mr.fortune7439]

“It’s like using Elmer’s glue as a vaccine” -Hungrybox 2022

[@abandonedaccountkinda1045]

Thats a new sentence

[@senoreg]

A phantom hit isn't tangential or 1 pixel off, it's overlapping by 0.01 units or whatnot. AsumSaus does a realy good explanation of it in his video

[@datmeme6643]

Read this right as the section started

[@fakegrant]

non-melee players: "melee sucks" melee players: "yeah"

[@wolfdragox5563]

More like: Non-Melee players: Melee is unfinished broken mess Melee players: we know, and we love it

[@GazerPlur420]

"Melee is sick". -Some dude probably.

[@VictimHazard]

@@GazerPlur420 "wow, Mango suicide dair'd Leffen again on their last stock for the 20th time? This game is so fuckin sickkkkkkkkkkkkkkk" -says the Falcon main

[@tumultoustortellini]

@@wolfdragox5563 Either that or they call you a casual who should stick to ult, there's almost no inbetween

[@benja-tp1sp]

Melee: Super unfinished and has a lot of glitches. Also Melee: *Best selling Gamecube game*

[@MsRainbowDrinker]

update. yoshi is able to win big tournaments

[@jeremy8223]

update 2. dk is able to win big tournaments

[@JudeShier]

Bruh

[@DragonMaster1818]

@@jeremy8223update 3: Kirby-

[@theboi5584]

I love how he just accepts all of the broken stuff that exists in Melee, it’s genuinely hilarious.

[@shaan__real]

Were just used to it. If i had my forward smash send you up and back so it doesnt kill in ultimate, i would be mad. In melee, it would be like “yeah sounds about right”. I love this game

[@joaofelipesiqueira21]

its because if it wasnt for the "bad broken", we wouldn't have the "good broken", like l-canceling and wavedashing. And melee is like perfect the way it is, is impossible to explain if you are not a melee player but like for real.

[@theboi5584]

@@joaofelipesiqueira21 I think the best way to describe Melee is that it’s “perfectly” broken. Its unbalanced in an entertaining and interesting, in depth way, not in a “This game is unfinished and not fun way”.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

I accept it too as I’m biased towards Melee and Brawl 2nd.

[@Roi-Racing]

Yeah

[@thischanneldoesntexist6132]

I like how he acknowledges how imperfect melee is yet he still likes it It kinda inspires me

[@honk1419]

yeah, its because something being dysfunctional doesn't mean it isn't enjoyable like i dont care that people don't like melee, but acting like its terrible just because it has flaws, ignoring all the good points is just completely ignorant. some people really just cannot stand a game being interesting, and then they discover some busted dumb crap in their favorite game that doesn't add much depth at all, and its suddenly super funny and a testament to how perfect their game is. if you start to look past somethings imperfections to realize its overarching positive points, then that's pretty nice

[@thischanneldoesntexist6132]

@@honk1419 yeah I was one of those people but than I played nasb And than I enjoyed it and now I might try slippi out soon even if I don’t like tap jump

[@shaan__real]

The super busted engine is what makes it super fun

[@VictimHazard]

@@shaan__real even with a busted engine, melee wouldn't be as fun without some of its busted high-tiered characters to go along with it. Nothing is more fun than playing against broken shit *with* broken shit. You literally only need a grab as Icies to implement wobbling to take a stock via infinite. That shit is broken, and NOT fun. but so many other characters have their own, arguably *better*, broken shit than an actual _infinite_ though. If the only characters in melee were its mediocre characters, this game would've died a VERY long time ago. (Un)fortunately we live in a timeline where NTSC melee v1.02 included characters like Fox Falco or Marth just as, 'how they are', instead

[@thischanneldoesntexist6132]

@@VictimHazard yes broken games are cooler than more balanced games because you will go up against some rushdown mixup character with high damage and safe moves to boot as some slow and defenseless bottom tier and win because of the mechanics you used against them It always feels satisfying

[@kitty9035]

Did anyone else see the dude who said "God I wish I was the stage" after the peach stalling bit

[@The_Hunted28]

i love how big hbox’s smile was after seeing jigglypuffs back air in the vid😂😂

[@dorktriogamer2865]

"able to win big tournaments" amsa has entered the chat

[@JustCrazyDK]

10:10 that's a good animation for missing a grab. Leaves you wide open though.

[@Raziel_HHL]

9:06 I love how he choose Hbox Puff skin for this lmao

[@Kurayamiblack]

6:03 I actually liked Meteors in Melee. I loved those moment when 1 player "spikes" someone over and over and over in rapid succession while the other player is frantically absolutely refusing to die. I've oddly greatly enjoyed being on both ends of this interaction. As the player with the advantage instead of a free kill and moving on you get to absolutely thrash your opponent and make their death feel like a complete beat-down that you had to work for and you do WANT to put in that work because the opponent can totally make it back and you risk a comeback if you don't. And as the player recovering, fighting your way through a beatdown feels good because if you make it back, nobody can dispute that you earned your 2nd chance at life and if you die, you make your opponent work for it and may have even worn them out a bit for when you respawn. And it's always hype no matter what. Spectators love it from my experience. It was just a fun interaction imo no matter what position you are in. You never walked away feeling like you didn't achieve SOMETHING from it even if it's just smiling at how hard both players were going for what would have been a 1-hit one and done kill in any other game

[@brandonwilliams6119]

It’s annoying when the Meteor Cancel happens but at the same time it’s a hilarious wtf moment for me personally. Wish they brought it back.

[@tumultoustortellini]

If they brought that into ult, it would be a functionally worse stage spike since they can recover for free. The power of modern recoveries makes it so all edgeguards are already hard-fought

[@Kurayamiblack]

@@tumultoustortellini I mean yeah, but to me it just isn't as exciting. I don't know if I can explain it much beyond that, but I can try. Check out this short video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3mznaqNqN6lgqM So in a nutshell, that last clip in particular of Fox getting dunked 3 times in a row before finally dying is the kind of interaction I'm talking about. I know Ultimate and Melee are functionally different games, but I have memories of my friends and I having lots of fights where these moments of repeated spikes happen. But with us, there was also DI, wall teching, wall jumping, 2nd jump timing mixups, and other factors we used to make it difficult for the guy dunking us to maintain the pressure since a single whiff means the recovering player makes it back. I just loved how exciting it was and whoever won the exchange felt like a badass for a bit. I don't know why, but Ultimate never make me feel like that. I usually just feel like "I hit you with the thing and you died... That was it". Not bashing Ultimate though, I'm just saying I enjoyed the hype these meteors and meteor cancels brought and almost never induced salt (from my experience) because people were usually too busy laughing at the frantic off-stage scrap fest.

[@tumultoustortellini]

@@Kurayamiblack So you want every character w/ a spike to have pit/little mac dair? you havk to understand why that sounds like a bad idea to someone w/ no nostalgia

[@Kurayamiblack]

@@tumultoustortellini Lol, absolutely not 😆 I'm not one of those "blindly apply this to literally everything" kind of people. I've been messing with mods and observing game design long enough to know better than that. Plus I'm fully aware that every change made to a game will affect every player, not just myself which means you gotta do things that won't ruin the game for others who will almost certainly not enjoy a feature as much as I might. But I also know a thing or two about the give and take of trying to balance a game. There would have to be other tweaks to the game to make this feel good. I can't just chuck a feature from an old physics engine into a game that has a different system and expect the same results. I'm not asking to put that feature back into the game (although I do miss it), I'm just saying that I really enjoyed the type of excitement it brought to certain moments of the game. I don't think we NEED it; I only brought it up because I think the feature deserves some appreciation 👌

[@sebastiansanchez375]

i saw this in an asumsaus video that the reason those moves aren't able to be L-cancelled is because they are considered specials if I'm remembering correctly

[@drd-hm6fc]

If I'm not wrong it's not that Luigi's dash attack has a lot of end lag, the problem is that the final hitbox, despite being coded into the game, does not activate or something like that

[@Wizzkidwas]

That's actually the case for Smash 64 And in melee they presumed that was intentional and did not include it at all

[@greg4587]

9:05 THEY'RE USING THE HUNGRYBOX SKIN LMAO

[@HomerGunther]

The look of joy on his face seeing jigglys bair was hilarious

[@ShizBliz10]

0:51 *how to make yourself completely unsatisfied of Melee in one step* The single step: figure out then Yoshi‘s dash grab is absolutely useless

[@moronichybrid]

Marth's grab for some reason isn't so to say "Broken", but the reason why it manages to reach characters like Yoshi from an absurd distance is because of their hitboxes are all around their body. If his grab range collides with even a tiny fraction of your character's hitbox, you get grabbed.

[@yeehaw8089]

thats how hitboxes work in every game

[@st4pps]

Someone needs to do this for rivals with the new characters

[@ShibuNub3305]

Olympia needs a section to herself

[@smashmallow1012]

@@ShibuNub3305 I’m 100% sure she’ll be balanced out eventually

[@christopherjobin-official7440]

@@smashmallow1012 yes, every single tier list seems to agree than no one can agree in Rivals. Its very balanced.

[@antares4731]

Olympia would get a section like Bayo and MK did

[@st4pps]

@@antares4731 I feel like the entirety of the dlc would get that section, like mollo is crazy.

[@TorutheRedFox]

the inability to charge smash attacks with the C stick and the inability to use smash attacks at all via the C stick outside of vs. mode is what made me switch to just using A for smash attacks and occasionally using the C stick if I need to repeatedly and quickly execute smashes

[@N1C0707]

You can charge C-stick smash attacks by holding Z. I like doing this after running and doing a charged down smash

[@Reece8u]

Im surprised that the freeze glitch was banned before wobbling. Its equally skill intensive, and you could put the same kill percent rule in that existed for wobbling.

[@HeavySighSA]

Wobbling at least has a chance to mess up, freeze glitch just straight up takes control away until icies decide to kill.

[@charlesoconnor8753]

​@@HeavySighSA Freeze glitching is harder than wobbling by a long shot, imo, I've done both many times on 20xx. There is also reverse freeze glitching which is legal, yet has still been banned on slippi. Also, freeze glitching can be a pain when the glitch you move your oppenent one SDI above popo's grab range and can regrab them to continue the match. That means down airing them, having them agree to DI down so you can finaly regrab them and free them from the glitch. Also, there is a small chance NANA Down B's, wich causes the second part of the freeze glitch, making it non-grabable and game ending.

[@PotofGlue]

Hbox just bopping to jiggs bair was too damn funny

[@a_person_1596]

Bowser's grab hitbox is so bad because of the animation. That dash-grab animation leans super far forward; if you mod the game to make the hitboxes match the animation, it's hilariously overpowered. The sad part is that Marth has the same issue, where he leans ridiculously far forward, but they made the hitboxes match HIS animation because heavies aren't allowed to be good. That's also why Marth outranges Yoshi; Yoshi sitting still and sticking out his tongue can't compare to Marth taking a whole step forward and reaching his hand out all the way.

[@4xzx4]

The same thing was the case with Wario's grab in Brawl.

[@MrNapkino]

Marth doesn’t actually outrange yoshi, he just outspaces him in that instance because of yoshi’s big fat nose hurtbox lol.

[@pasqualembisceglia1989]

Falco and Fox are characters in Star Fox 64. Ganondorf, Link, Young Link and Zelda/Sheik are characters in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

[@JustinLightYT]

Jigglypuff pays Hbox's bills LITERALLY confirmed

[@jsu9575m]

Its actually insane to think of how different your life might be if Jigglypuff back air hitbox was small

[@romajimamulo]

Man phantoms are such a weird mechanic to intentionally code into your game

[@mlalbaitero]

I think they're hype

[@ShirakoriMio]

hEEEW forgot to mention that M2k's Pichu specifically is placed higher on the tier list lololololol.

[@bryangao979]

“it’s like using elmer’s glue as a vaccine” laughed my fucking ass off at this

[@pokeguitaristjake6300]

Smash Ultimate and Smash 4 low tiers feel so much more better in the hands then Melee or Brawl low tiers, when I use a Melee or Brawl low tier I feel like the hits are nothing X_X 5:26

[@tristancampbell4941]

The face!🤣 1:40

[@peluquin98]

Hbox should watch some asumsaus videos that showcase in detail many flaws of the game, it even showcases how a minimal thing on a gc controller can affect the gameplay

[@valorousAV]

heews vids are so rewatchable, ive seen them so many times but they never get old

[@Super_Suchi]

Technically bowser has a longer grab range than marth. Problem is that a combination of bowser’s large size and the bad placement of the hitbox makes the large grab range entirely worthless, compared to marth who practically has a disjointed grab.

[@eternallyspoopy2238]

I feel like it’s funny how hbox has to put “(reaction)” in the title, because “MELEE IS BROKEN” is a title he might use for an actual gameplay video.

[@ClebbyWebbyZebby]

Did y'all know phantom hits are an intentional game design? They just didn't have a name, but in brawl I believe they are called glancing blows or something like that. Is it still broken? yes, but at least it isnt a glitch

[@oliverafton1444]

Than it was a bad decision then.

[@ClebbyWebbyZebby]

@@oliverafton1444 it makes the game lead towards being more aggressive, it's ultimately a good decision

[@oliverafton1444]

@@ClebbyWebbyZebby QwQ, well, i don't like playing aggresively, i am more strategic and combo-makee.

[@TheGreenthunder200]

bowsers entire existence in melee makes me sad

[@hexxcarbonox6104]

I remember hitting up-throw rest on my buddy once (neither of us play melee really but he actually grey up with the game) and it felt SO GOOD to make him think I was godlike. Then I told him he just has to DI and I think it's percentage dependant lol

[@susiehaltmann3342]

To explain marths grab range the hitbox will grab if any part of the character gets in it. Like yoshis nose which is why he got grabbed

[@nutnut.]

my fav part of melee has always been the shine>shine>shine>shine>shine combos

[@lemguins7031]

If the opponent gets frozen while Stuck in place with the ice climbers glitch, the only way I could find to unfreeze them so you can throw them out of it was to throw a Screw attack at them.

[@absollnk]

I think it's weird how long it took for wobbling to get banned when the freeze glitch had basically the same effect

[@Goreblender]

it's not really the same effect, because with the freeze glitch, a single grab when you are at even stocks or a stock advantage wins the entire game. say you're both at 4 stocks, and ice climbers grab and freeze glitch you. they can then hit you until you're at higher percent, and then just wait out the game clock and win on time. if you're both at 4 stocks and ice climbers grab you and wobble you, you're now at 3 stocks, but you can still fight. it's still total bullshit that gives your average local terrible ice climbers player an armada level punish game with a few hours of practice, but freeze glitch is way more overpowered and would cause the tournament format to collapse if allowed

[@gmangabs3677]

9:01 luigi gets phantom hit if his nose had a hit box

[@Gamesmarts194]

Dunno if this will get seen (or if he's already done this), but someone should show him the video of Heeew trying to play Melee with just the mouse and nothing else.

[@Nokyyyyy]

One of the main reason why there aren't any other smash game like melee is because it's a rushed and unfinished game, unlike the others At least way more than them

[@scarletvrgames568]

I'm still kinda mad Pokèfloats didn't return in Ultimate... but online with hazards exists

[@JFox4587]

It’s because of its imperfections that we love it so much. Things like waveshining and upthrow rest and chain grab makes the game hype because at any moment someone can turn the game around and make a comeback. The melee-verse has a saying “one stock is not a lead” which essentially means you’re never winning by just being up a stock, because stocks can disappear very quickly in this broken ass game! And that makes it fun to watch 😊

[@cubaisdeath]

now its time to remember when Nintendude accidentally did the freeze glitch on G-Reg because G-Reg grabbed nana while nintendude was trying to side b recover lol

[@MrFlejon]

I kinda wish grabs weren't so good I this game. The fact that every top tier except for Falco plays a neutral game where the best opening is to grab your opponent kinda sucks.

[@Harmless_Music]

man you’d hate 64

[@mlalbaitero]

I don't think Foxs best opening is grab but it's still amazing

[@MrFlejon]

@@mlalbaitero it's not the single best, but still leads to whatever you want so it works, and every Fox does it

[@Harmless_Music]

@@MrFlejon A lot of the better Foxes I've played against usually try to play neutral by whiff-punishing with short hop fair or drill shine. Grab is neat but doesn't punish reliably because most characters can short hop aerial over it or stuff it with follow-up tilts Chances are if you're getting hit by Fox dash-dance in neutral -> grab whiff punish, then they're calling you out on shielding after you throw out an aerial or something in neutral, or using a particularly laggy move and feel like grabbing instead of going for a more technical jump-in punish tl;dr Basically your comment is correct, but not every Fox does it

[@TheStrahl]

This video should be called "Why I hate melee"

[@pasqualembisceglia1989]

Dr. Mario is in Princess Peach's Castle, Falco is in Battlefield, Ganondorf and Mewtwo are in Final Destination, Jigglypuff and Pichu are in Pokemon Stadium, Luigi is in Mushroom Kingdom II, Marth is in Fountain of Dreams, Mr. Game & Watch is in Flat Zone, Roy is in Temple and Young Link is in Great Bay.

[@matthall7359]

I’m just here for that sweet sweet yoshi tier list placement

[@guttaknight64]

1:42 dude was having flashbacks to his glory days

[@Matpit18]

Finally! What I’ve been waiting for! This was a nice reaction, Hbox!

[@jjjinsoul_ffrom-loona]

shine isnt the best move... its zelda down-b which automatically moves you up 6 tiers

[@rustylawnmower5822]

Fun fact: The youtuber and former professional player, ZeRo, won his first big tournament because of a Phantom hit.

[@sg21yt]

Which one?

[@rustylawnmower5822]

@@sg21yt It wasn't really a big tournament but it got his name on the maps in Chile and South America, where he was from, can't remember but I'm pretty sure he made a video on it, if you are interested

[@rustylawnmower5822]

@@sg21yt It wasn't really a big tournament but it got his name on the maps in Chile and South America, where he was from, can't remember but I'm pretty sure he made a video on it, if you are interested

[@FRIONIELASTRALIS]

The one we’ve all been waiting for. Heeew’s vids are awesome.

[@pasqualembisceglia1989]

There are 14 newcomer characters in Super Smash Bros Melee like Bowser, Dr. Mario, Falco, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Marth, Mewtwo, Mr. Game & Watch, Peach, Pichu, Roy, Young Link and Zelda/Sheik while there are 12 veteran characters like Captain Falcon, Donkey Kong, Fox, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Link, Luigi, Mario, Ness, Pikachu, Samus and Yoshi. That makes 26 Super Smash Bros Melee characters.

[@theuchihakidd]

Damn... The fact that Mario didn't get into the top of the tier list til smash 4 is kinda sad ngl

[@crack4184]

At least, he did all his way to low-mid tier. He was completly trash in Brawl

[@Choochinc]

Too bad that by being top tier, he is now up air, the character. I hate fighting Mario in Smash 4 and Ultimate so much.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

@@crack4184 Not only that Mario’s Voicelines suck in Brawl, it sounds like he has a cold, fever or stuffy nose lol, they should’ve reused the voicelines from Melee.

[@crack4184]

@@brandonwilliams6119 He wasn't in the right game. His kit is considered good but since there's barely any hitstun in Brawl, Mario can't do jack shit

[@TheBigFawn]

8 months since this video and Yoshi wasn't under the "able to win big tournaments". If only they knew

[@Mega_Man_Master]

2:20 Smash character: Nooooo, my combo!!! mele Luigi: Our Combo

[@ArcadeStriker]

"Yoshi able to get to Top 8" Boy how that one aged today lmao

[@PhirePhlame]

I wonder how much of an effect the revisional differences have? Like I'm assuming this is either the latest or first NTSC rev, but I also know further tweaks were made to the PAL version. (Speaking of, if a Melee remake is announced, y'all better start getting used to the PAL version since Nintendo has already proved with Mario 3D All-Stars that they use the latest version of the codebase for such projects)

[@Antonio-is2cn]

"Why can't I spike with Marth?" Welcome to PAL Melee

[@MrNapkino]

NTSC received two patches (v1.01 and v1.02) the main notable things they change is fixing crashing issues and changing how sdi works on certain moves. Other than that, it’s basically the same game but more stable, which is why it’s used in competitive play. A lot of people advocate for PAL being used, but its balance changes are very questionable. Ganon, a character who was never good to begin with, got nerfed very hard, while top tiers like jigglypuff and falcon got almost no changes (falcon got a nerf to weak knee but it barely matters). My personal least favorite change is sheik’s dthrow nerf, which makes it so she doesn’t have a grab game anymore on non-fastfallers. She went from the insane grab punish character to getting shield camped, oh how the tides have turned. On top of this, it just makes the game overall less interesting while helping balance very little, the tier list barely changes between ntsc and pal (only thing I can think of is that falcon might be better than sheik now, the nerf was that massive) and most of the cast is still complete garbage, which is why it isn’t used over NTSC.

[@red-man7017]

As stupidly small as DK's melee dash attack hurtbox was, after playing the game myself i learned that it makes up for it by hitting stupidly hard, probably even more so than the barrel roll dash attack of smash 4 and Ultimate

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Back when Fox was SS-Tier for some reason.

[@darkmario1253]

Finally melee is broken

[@Evixyn]

Luigi is amazing in melee and I wunder when will "Don't Test Me" show up in tournaments with "Our Boy Roy?"

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Don’t care how broken Melee is, it’s so hilariously broken it’s good, it has a special place in my heart. My favorites that I get laughs out of are Yoshi’s Grab Range, Fox’s Shining Shenanigans, Jigglypuff’s Back Air, DK’s Luigi’s and Roy’s Dash Attack, Luigi’s Nair which gives a stupid amount of hitstun, Mr. G&W not having a shield let alone an L Cancel, and the GOAT Kirbycide!

[@benro6564]

ICs still have a legal 0-death but it's way harder, still only move down like 1 tier placement

[@matthewjones6786]

To be fair, how exactly would Kirby be able to keep a grip on you with his little nubs?

[@yoshifan3611]

If he can hold a GINORMOUS sword with no problems, he can hold a plumber.

[@benkesler487]

At 5:30 no mention of Taj's Mewtwo made me a bit sad, even though I'm not sure he had "solid results"

[@mayataylor6025]

1:50. this moment is too real. the world is such a crazy place

[@theinktician]

PAL isngenuinely the best version, but like with every game, top players will always be afraid of the changes that hurt them

[@Liggliluff]

Funny thing is that top players in Europe would therefore have to change version. - One argument I guess would be that the PAL version is 50 fps, but it is 576p, so higher resolution. But Wii had the option to run 480p60 instead of 576p50, but did GC have that?

[@mlalbaitero]

Pal sucks

[@ELI-ch4nn3l]

Anybody gonna say something about Peach's Left throw?, that thing have a massive knockback if she grabbed u is the end

[@domoru5264]

You should check out some of Asum Saus’s vids about melee it’s revealed a LOT of jank that can happen

[@hedgethewedge]

Keyboard is pretty easy once you have the right controls. I use keyboard to play Melee, Project +, and stuff like that, and I can wavedash and moonwalk.

[@javierkiman8302]

There are old videos playing Mario of someone else, using spin from below to get up to the edge, onto the platform. Way more difficult with Mario with spin than peach getting above.

[@ThatSneakman]

"God I wish I was the stage" I respect the honesty. So do I tbh

[@JoseRivera-ym3wj]

I had fun playing Melee. I haven't played it in a long time, but I still have a copy. We would casually play it among friends. But the Melee players that praises it as Sakurai's best work (I've heard the word Meleefags used to describe them) are in the same league as Pokémon Genwunners. They reject any and all later installments of each respective series because you can't do things on them than on their favorite game. All these games have a place in my heart, but I move on to later installments. Sure, they may not be perfect, but you can appreciate that there have been some more polish than in previous installments. Makes one realize Melee is a total mess, and Pokémon RSE is unplayable for me due to the very outdated meta.

[@queuedjar4578]

Melee is accidentally perfect. It isn't Sakurai's best work because sakurai did it entirely on accident and doesn't care enough about the game to realize why it is actually perfect, or more realistically he's entirely missing the finer details that makes it perfect in favor of focusing on other aspects of the game in the name of broadening appeal. Which is entirely fine, as long as I can still play melee for another 20 years unheded, which that I can't even do sometimes because nintendo. It's a casually unfriendly game but competitively probably the best esport of all time, no question about it.

[@JoseRivera-ym3wj]

@@queuedjar4578, here's the thing. The reason there are so many glitches, which the competitive scene take advantage of and casuals don't readily have access to, is due to a combination of short development time and an lack of quality beta testing and debugging. It was among the first GameCube games to come out within the post launch window. And I watched a video where it's mostly down to luck, since players will fight for controller port rights in order to gain an edge over the opponent. Preferred method is rock-paper-scissors.

[@queuedjar4578]

@@JoseRivera-ym3wj Im completely aware of all of this due to the fact I play the game. Even port priority doesn't matter that much in the majority of cases, and whichever port is more advantageous is also arguable since higher and lower ports have their own sets of pros and cons which is another accidentally balanced feature of melee that appears cursed and broken at first.

[@ego2133]

Super Smash Bros Melee is really a great case and should teach most players a lesson. Just because a game has a lot of bugs and/or glithes doesn't mean it can't be fun. Heck, I personally think that glitches that don't straight up crash the game or delete saves just makes a game better due to how funny they are. Melee reminds of Pokemon Red and Blue, in a way. Btw, both Melee and Red/Blue are perfectly enjoyable with casual playthroughs and are just fun games, despite some people I see sometimes claiming "You can't make 2 steps without encountering 10000 glitches/bugs, this game is unplayable!". I play both these games sometimes (admitedly less Melee) and most of the glitches were either too insignificant (like the 1/251 chance for a 100% accuracy move to miss, it happens like 5 times at most on a casual playthrough) or requires way too many specifix qetups in order to trigger them for it to be an actual problem (like all the ways to trigger MissignO). And most of the second category are just funny, like I said earlier. I know this video isn't about Red/Blue but I wanted to brought it up because, for playing both, I feel like these two games are pretty comparable in that department. However, the difference is that the Melee competitive scene embraced this side of the game and specifically have so much enjoyement when playing it BECAUSE of these oversights, not despite them. That's important to keep in mind because I feel like not enough people actually think about it despite it seeming obvious. People saying that Melee is the best smash game ever and the others are bad in comparison are stupid. However, people judging the Melee fan for liking the game are just as stupid, if not worse. And I feel like that's a rather ongoing trend recently. If a lot of people have fun when playing then the game ultimately did its job in my book, no matter the reason why they have fun. Sorry for this wall of text.

[@Harmless_Music]

Agreed, except RBY players who play competitive Gen 1 also embrace all the things that make RBY… well, RBY. Things like 1/251 miss rates, Body Slam not paralyzing Normal types, and more are also embraced by the community that plays it.

[@byronlyons3548]

No, not really. R/B/Y is still a clunky mess, even for a casual playthrough. And if you're used to, started, and liked the recent Pokemon games, through gameplay alone. Then it's not going to be as fun playing those old Pokemon games, even casually. That 1/251 chance is still going to mess you up, in ways that isn't even funny or good. 100% accurate moves should be just that, it shouldn't miss, nor require you to use Swift to avoid missing. And then there's stuff like bind and sleep, that just takes away your turns that it shouldn't. That you will encounter a good amount in your casual playthrough, because of Pokemon that naturally learns those moves. A couple more that could mess with the experience like Amnesia. Slow movement, that arguably gives Diamond and Pearl vanilla a run for it's money (only saving grace is that the region is smaller). Limited Inventory management, which forces you to either use up your items, or store them in the PC. Not being able to see the stats and what moves in your TMs do until you use them up. Have to pause to use any of the HMs all the time. Those can't be deleted whatsoever, leaving your Pokemon probably permanently crippled. Can't catch Pokemon when your PC Box is full, and you have to go to one to manually change it, every time. Scrolling through your PC Box in of itself is slow, and not showing you your Pokemon until you view Summary. I guess level design, if you're not good at keeping track of where you've been (especially places with warp pads). In short, there's lots of problems, that starts to marred the quality of the game, as time goes on. The original Pokemon game is unfortunately a clunky mess, as it has not aged gracefully. The only ways you would find that game fun, is through nostalgia, being drunk, or playing it on Pokemon Stadium with the transfer pak. As the Stadium game gives you the Gameboy tower, that can be upgraded, and can let you play the R/B/Y game double, or even up to triple speed.

[@ego2133]

@@byronlyons3548 Oh yeah, the only way someone can find this game enjoyablefor another reason than nostalgia, is being drunk? Great way to judge other people who have fun with this game (because, shocker for you, they exist), two claps for you! That alone makes your comment not even worth being properly answered. But I'm gonna answer you anyway. Yeah, glitches like the 1/251 miss are too situational for it to matter. Like what, it's gonna makes me angry for 5 seconds and that's it. Given that it'll happen maybe 10 times (and I'm being somewhat generous here), that's gonna be a bother to me for like, two minutes in total over 10-15 hours of gameplay. Woaw, such a dealbreaker, indeed! And that's the same with stuff like Hyper Beam not needing a recharge if it killed the pokemon. Like, it'll have the potential to be maybe relevant for one single fight in the game, against Peter. For the rest of the game, it's irrelevant (or can even be useful if you happen to use it prior to this fight). Only the competitive players will find these kind of details important. Why do you think SO many kids had so much fun playing this game back then? Were they drunk, like you pretend? Because the nostalgia certainly wasn't a factor. Or perhaps you're the kind of person to think that kids are stupids. But personally, I'm not among that trope. Games that were too glitchy, bugged or unplayable for their own good have always bombed, even back then. But Pokemon Red and Blue didn't. No, they had a ton of fun simply because the game IS indeed fun. The bugs and glitches, while they do exist, are just either not impactful enough or too situationals to matter that much, unless nitpicking happen to be your hobby. Some glitches even forged a bit more the aura of the game, like Bug City. As for the QoL things, that's a bit of the same thing, although they do matter a bit more. Yes, things like not being able to select the bicycle outside of directly selecting it on the item lists are a bit annoying, that's true. But, again, it doesn't bother me enough to not have fun. Also, I'm among the people who think that, when "QoL" go too far, it becomes more of a detriment to the game. For example, imo, the ability to exchange a pokemon of your team with the PC at any given time since Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee was just a mistake. But that's another topic. Also, the game is slow but certainly not as slow as Gen 4 (at least the fights). And I'll give you some examples of youtubers who haven't played these games back then but found it enjoyable despite some issues. You can check Hooper (a french letsplayer I follow who haven't played a single pokemon game prior to it and is in his early 40s) who found the game pretty fun outside of a couple of things. There's also Tama Hero who made a review of these games (also, you can check many people in the comments). Frankly, I feel like I didn't even need to bring examples of youtubers because that's so obvious that some people (not all people) will find the game fun. But I guess they're drunks too? Or they have nostalgia over a game they never played prior? Maybe they're liars, who knows? Or perhaps all these people have shitty tastes?

[@byronlyons3548]

@@ego2133 I'm sorry that the truth hurts, and that you can't seem to handle it. But that's just how life is at times. Now you can either accept that as an adult, or be mad at it like a child. It's a flaw that you cannot ignore. And it's one of this game's many problems, that regardless of how small it is, still adds up. And there's a lot. Again, small, but many. And they still add up. Free time. How about you use your head, before you go stupid next time. Now what do adults not have as much these days? Exactly, free time. So all of this crap and glitches marring down these games, not only making it slower, but annoying. People have less patience for these kinds of games nowadays, than they did as a kid. Half of the times they are, but that's just how it is with kids. Now what's the excuse for "grownups" like you for being as dumb as a kid? Little to nothing, because you're supposed to be grown up about this. So you should know when to accept when these happen to be the case. Besides, some people somehow still likes those or go through playing broken and glitchy games, even for how unplayable as they are. They're just glutton for punishment. Maybe back in the day, because there was little to nothing like it, but again, outside of nostalgia, it ain't as fun now. That and it (unless you're a rich snobby asshole) was mostly all you got, as you didn't get much games back in the day. So like, what other video game were you going to play back then? It's like you forget what context is. Also not all of the glitches are that situational, so might as well stop with that copium. Oh, not just when it comes to outside of battle. But also in Pokemon battles themselves. What with the Physical and Special split, so that Pokemon who are in certain types aren't entirely crippled because of their typing. (Absol, anyone?) Also this is where it just comes down to your taste, and tells me it's probably terrible, by thinking something like accessing the PC Boxes anywhere is somehow a bad thing. As at least there are still places where it's disabled (like at the gyms or the Pokemon League) where it matters most to not having it. Otherwise it's the best thing the series needs, as it's better than running back to change out your party members, just when you get a new Pokemon. Doing that the old way is tedious, and adds nothing to the game. You can like the old way all you want, but it goes back to what I said before, people are sometimes glutton for punishment. As that's how it is, if ain't for nostalgia sake. Oh, when it gets down to it, on being as bad as it can be (bind, smoke screen, double team, being put to sleep), it still does contend. And again, these are things you can very much still run into casually. It's not just a competitive thing, sorry to say. Again, glutton for punishment. People enjoy things that aren't normally fun, which may or may not have something wrong with them. Also someone who does make a few good points, but is mostly led on by nostalgia and probably won't admit to it. I say KingK is a better example than Tama, as he's enjoying all the Pokemon games, some later games more than the earlier games. And is willing to admit he may have nostalgia for the earlier games, but will admit to their faults that can hamper the experience. Especially these games. And honestly does a better job explaining details, and the themes of the games that most people most likely have missed, or is biased against (such as Tama). Outliers aren't great examples gonna be honest. Since you named only two people. And most people in the comments blindly follow what's being said in the comments. As that's called parroting. I mean, you could fit two of those things, mostly nostalgia, and the taste part. But something tells me you don't want a proper discussion that shows such being the case, like a proper adult would. With most likely deflection, considering how you took offense to the drunk part, and strawman that point into oblivion like a child would.

[@ego2133]

@@byronlyons3548 The reason why I insist on it is because I already say way too much people on internet who attack other persons because of their tastes. And even tho you want to deny it, you pretty much did the same thing. I was about to apoligize because I feel my previous comment was rude but since your answer is even worse on that regard, you're not better. Btw, the reason why I mentioned only two peoples (plus the people on the comments of her video, you skipped that part, hopefully not on purpose) is because who would do a freaking list for such a thing as a discussion about a video game? Nobody. But really, why should I even bother to give a proper answer to your post when one of the first things you say is basically "I say the truth and you have to accept it"? Internet has taught me since a long time now that it's just pointless to talk in cases like this So, sorry for having brought up my shitty tastes on this comment section in the first place. Now I'll just shut up. Who knows, perhaps you'll be satisfied like this.

[@themew2knight976]

5:30 'bout your old friend Young Link ? I'd say he didn't do backup in that even if the forgotten god dropped him for fox

[@calvietunion3588]

I have loved all the reactions of Heeew. Keep up the good work and thanks for entertaining us all these years.

[@jwil4286]

“I made a career off that one” REST ASSURED, you did

[@streetguru9350]

How come the big tornaments don't simply have A-C brackets, and E and below brackets? So there's always 2 winners if someone likes a character that's lower in the tier list?

[@yeehaw8089]

because that would take up insane amounts of stream time and wouldnt get a lot of viewers

[@Thierce]

no one wants to watch bowser vs roy

[@PomadaGaming]

LOL THIS THE ONE I’VE WAITED FOR

[@Spectrum0122]

After part 2 I'm actually mad that cheater got away with using pichu for so long

[@kritzmaker]

samus players training to easily perform ultrawavedashes and abuse the extender to kick your ass

[@onyxguardian5122]

13:38 Ok, I was like 6 years old when I was playing Melee so i didnt get anything “meta” related…….but im almost 20 now and I NEVER saw or knew about this. Like what!!

[@stephaniecurry45]

Melee honestly could just be reworked and still keep a lot of the movement aspects which make I mainly the game it is

[@CanadianFaye]

I was playing on slippi, one time I broke out of Kirbs f throw without even mashing

[@bannles]

Finally, Melee is here!

[@rulesOfChaos_]

It's only a minor thing, but I wish Puff's shield break was included

[@BioHazardMotionz]

Was so sad that fizzi patched freeze glitch out, doing handoffs into it was fun af. But people who abuse it for trolls ruined it

[@Hextator]

I can't figure out what song that is. The editor apparently recognized it and used an arrangement of it at the end of this video, and I feel like I should know what it is, but nothing comes to mind. Anyone know?

[@banboolol]

I miss this hungrybox cut

[@isocle]

aMSa reminded him that yoshi was a little low in the list :)