Huot: Canada's Ross-based Prototype Automatic Rifle from WW1

[@jacksonmacpherson6101]

Howell: I am positive we have the most complex non-ergonomic rifle to machine gun conversion. Huot: Hold my molson

[@PigEqualsBakon]

its funny you say molson, because molson is (or was) right next door to the seaforth highlander museum. I mean, literally next door. there are big tanks backing right to the building.

[@weaponscurator1412]

@@PigEqualsBakon They have just shut down their operation and moved to Chilliwack this year. Molson is NOT served in any of the Seaforth Messes.

[@PigEqualsBakon]

@@weaponscurator1412 I figured it wasnt, I used to work on the area and it was always funny to me seeing the old building, the fancy new one and the brewery tanks RIGHT THERE

[@OneShadeofBlack]

Ian McCollum will be jealous!!

[@LukeBunyip]

I was thinking the same thing 😉

[@MrSaerrock]

I very much doubt that, sure he'll be excited that other presenters are doing a similar thing which shows the level of interest & demand for quality historical explanations of weird & unusual weapons.

[@iamsean92]

he'll probably get his hands on it somehow. lol

[@tssteelx]

You spelt "gun jesus " wrong. Lol

[@monteengel461]

Steel- XL Spelt is a cereal grain, spelled is the past tense of to spell.

[@siestatime4638]

Regarding that addition to the bolt assembly: In archeology, if they couldn't come up with a practical use, they would just say "It was for religious purposes". That works for me...

[@TacticalTightwad]

In the comments to the write-up about the Huot Automatic Rifle on Forgotten Weapons, someone in the comments posted a link to the original Canadian Patent application. In that application, the function of that lever on the bolt handle appears to be a means to either fire automatically from an open bolt, or to fire single shot from a closed bolt.

[@scruggs6633]

@@TacticalTightwad Or it could have been a bolt lock to fire single shots which would then be cycled manually like the straight pull ross originally did. That seems more simple than a select fire on something like this.

[@cmikles1]

Definitely for ceremonial purposes.

[@kenibnanak5554]

@@TacticalTightwad Pretty obvious that if it's function was to knock the sear down and out of the way then the gun becomes run away full auto. What fun. :)

[@TacticalTightwad]

@@scruggs6633 The original patents are here (it's a long url) brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/193725/summary.html?query=%28Huot%29+%3CAND%3E+%28ISD%3E%3d1910-01-01%29+%3CAND%3E+%28ISD%3C%3d1945-03-02%29&start=1&num=50&type=advanced_search If you click on the black box marked "Documents", you see three entries. The document "claims" describes the operation of the gun. Claim 9 specifically says: "9.- In a gun, a breech bolt, a firing pin therein, a common operating means for said bolt and firing pin, and a single sear arranged to engage either the bolt or the firing pin." Reading all of the claims basically described the operation of the rifle in both automatic rifle (semi-auto) and machine gun (full-auto) modes. You can also click on the Drawings and see drawings with all parts numbered, and when you click on Description you get an explaination of the operation with reference to each numbered part described.

[@KeithShizuo]

why did forgotten weapons get a new host? :P

[@dpie7091]

Do not worry, he is not Gun Jesus but one of his many apostles

[@vaclav_fejt]

Some say he sent over 2000 letters to Sellier&Bellot to make .303 with proper rims, and that he is not afraid of the dreaded Garand ping. All we know is he's not Gun Jesus, he's Gun Jesus' English cousin!

[@pnutz_2]

@@vaclav_fejt CLARKSON!

[@TechGamer45]

@@vaclav_fejt EPIC!

[@robgoodsight6216]

Hahahahahahah just thinking the same!!!!

[@joebuettner7689]

I know and have gone hiking with Huot's grandson. I've also gotten to see pictures of some other small arms projects in which the family was involved in addition to the automatic rifle.

[@dragonfell5078]

Damn that's cool!

[@9HoleReviews]

"OOOOF" is the response to this contraption.

[@zebradun7407]

Looks like something a Wookie would carry.

[@dermotrooney9584]

Surely it's pronounced Hoot, as in: "What was it like to fire?" "It was a Hoot." Sorry. I've only just woken up.

[@neueneggschiessen3933]

No one noticed the deadpan "two way range" humour. This is what makes this channel unique.

[@plolsteg7705]

*GUN JESUS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION*

[@Taistelukalkkuna]

Your prayers have been answered. 13.12. =)

[@leewilkinson6372]

Gun jesus told me to come here in another video handed down from on high....😂

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

The Seaforths Highlanders museum of Canada in beautiful Vancouver.

[@445cat]

Wow, this is incredible! What an opportunity to see this up close. Thank you Bloke and Rob for bringing this to us. Ian’s gonbee jel-ly!

[@detritus23]

That action looks like a sewing machine gone wrong. Stoner would sob. “A two-way range?” Interesting euphemism for “battlefield” or “ordinance-mediated dispute resolution”.

[@Y.M...]

I giggled

[@bobbieolsen7264]

Tha ould be th pissin contest...

[@clivereddin8454]

Encountered one of these at a gun show in the late 70’s. When I saw it I said, “Oh, a Huot automatic rifle!” The fellow who had it on display nearly fell off his chair that someone actually knew what it was beside himself. It wasn’t for sale of course and I don’t recall the ownership but I never had expected to see one. I had learned about it from an article in the Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting. Thanks for a more in depth look st it than I was able to get back then.

[@weaponscurator1412]

Was this in Atlantic Canada?

[@rimsdad]

Recall having it there and seeing the leather scabbard for it but never had or took the time to look at it closer! Thanks Rob/Bloke for bringing it out!!!

[@weaponscurator1412]

We have the leather case, although it is in need of repair.

[@windogendoors7566]

The Huot has always been of great interest to me when I saw it mentioned in an old book. Nicely detailed video on an interesting, often overlooked gun.

[@TheRealColBosch]

Forgotten Weapons references Bloke on the Range. Bloke on the Range references C&Rsenal. C&Rsenal references Forgotten Weapons. The circle is complete.

[@joeblow9657]

Thanks so much for this video Block on the Range. I can't believe you were able to make this video. Best wishes from Canada

[@johncashwell1024]

Great video BoTR! I ended up here via Ian McCollum's Forgotten Weapons' 13 December 2019 video on the Huot. I am, and have been for 2 years, one of your KZbin Subscribers but somehow I missed this video when it came out, as I rarely receive your, and other firearms channels', notifications. Surely, KZbin had nothing to do with that...

[@peteraugust5295]

I like the coffee tea table they attached to it. Makes easier to not get your cup dirty while fighting the hans.

[@robertupson5274]

How did I. It find this channel until now? This is absolutely amazing and the fact you got your hands on a Huot is incredible

[@Asher_E99]

I almost couldn't believe it when I saw it! The huot is one of those rare, darn near legendary machine guns.

[@PaganPilot]

There is a timeline where the Ross Rifle was a reliable, very accurate and fast firing rifle, and the Huot was adopted into ww2. Shame its not ours.

[@deadsweetheart1]

darn that its so rare that no one can do a firing video of it

[@markorsburn8575]

I have anticipated this video for quite sometime, thank you.

[@yozmatoz]

Britains answer to Forgotten Weapons hahahha Love it!

[@robgoodsight6216]

Hahahahahah

[@martinvialle4569]

Switzerland surely

[@Arbiter099]

Don't call me Shirley

[@lordofromuluslordofromulus8375]

It is Switzerland's Forgotten Weapons. He lives in Switzerland.

[@juzeku]

He might have moved there you fucking goon.@@lordofromuluslordofromulus8375

[@Foche_T._Schitt]

It's amazing what they could do before CAD.

[@kenibnanak5554]

With pencil, paper and lots of erasers *and maybe based on how it all turned out a little too much whiskey too*.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

Many hard nights of trial and error.

[@a8205-w8h]

At least in my country, engineers are still required to learn how to do technical drawing by hand before learning CAD.

[@tjo4087]

I think you should work more directly with Ian. I think the result would be SMASHING!

[@fafhrdkreig4739]

They have.

[@Oblio1942]

@@fafhrdkreig4739 surely it was excellent

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

They have at least twice I think.

[@brandony8691]

This has the Forgotten Weapons structure nailed in the best possible way. More videos like this!

[@Magicalamazing]

Obviously I'm not sure how the gun works exactly so I don't know what the firing pin situation is, but if it's like the Ross in that they didn't weld/fix the firing pin forward, might that lever be like an extra safety? What I mean is, once the bolt is all the way in battery that tab pushes the sear down to drop the firing pin. When the lever is pulled away from the charging/bolt handle it wont trip the Ross sear and therefor won't fire if you say, accidentally drop the bolt on a live cartridge? Just an idea. Edit to clarify slightly: The trigger just drops the bolt and the bolt need a way to trip the firing pin at the right time when in battery. That is what the tab would do. Yes it is overly complex, but most of the gun is, so idk not totally impossible

[@kenibnanak5554]

My thought is once you disengage the sear, you now have a run away gun with the firing pin not being caught on each time the bolt goes forward. Curious about the interplay of the sear with the disconnector, or did they even put a disconnector into the design?

[@Magicalamazing]

@@kenibnanak5554 Well, no because when you let off the trigger a seemingly separate catch keeps the bolt open. I guess I'm wondering if there isn't some tomfoolery going on in the trigger assembly making the trigger not effect the original Ross firing pin at all: all it would do is allow the bolt to drop. The bolt would then need some way let the firing pin forward at the right time to fire the thing, and a good way to do it is to have a tab that releases whatever catch is holding the pin back just as the bolt fully closes. I guess having that tab fixed would work as well, but like i said perhaps being able to disengage it is another safety feature. edit: also there is no disconnecter, its full auto only

[@azkrouzreimertz9784]

i cant believe u actually got ur hands on one! awesome video!

[@adamdean5881]

I took apart a Swiss k31 when I first bought it and thought that all it needed to be a self- loading rifle was a piston and gas tube. I'm glad to see that someone in Canada saw his country's straight pull service rifle and saw the same thing.

[@thebotrchap]

Adam Dean The Swiss has Adolf Furrer insisting on all SMGs and LMGs having toggle locks at the time.

[@LN997-i8x]

So, the feed system is a strange combination of Savage 99 and belt-fed features!

[@Pentagon6519]

Imagine if it had been designed to run with a more conventional 20 round box magazine. The bit on the left wouldn't have had to stick out because the feeding mechanism wouldn't be needed. Quick magazine change. No weird loader. That 1 basic change would almost certainly have made this much more effective and probably the most effective "bolt action" conversion. Yes I know it's not actually a bolt action, close enough.

[@kenibnanak5554]

Exactly how I view it. A slightly curved 10 or 20 round box magazine would have made it a much better balanced and practical weapon without weird side bulges impacting on balance. Amazing how resistant many armies were to simple box magazines for their battle rifles. Noting also the barrel length still needlessly long even at the end of the war when field experience should have filtered back (but clearly hadn't yet) that shorter barrels are actually better.

[@CTXSLPR]

It’s a light machine gun though. Not terribly effective as a light machine gun with a 10 round mag, even a 20 round is awefully light for that application. This seems more like a Chauchat or BAR type automatic rifle.

[@Pentagon6519]

@@CTXSLPR this is true, but box magazines would've made it much less awkward in shape and size. Also it would mean less milling as well as less material to make it cheaper to convert. And the quicker reload speed of a box mag would probably make up for the higher capacity rotary mag. And it might be possible to use 25 or 30 rounders in certain situations, like a prepared placement where you have vertical clearance. This would make it more like the BAR than a dedicated LMG but for the cost it might have actually made it worthwhile.

[@Taolan8472]

That long stripper clip is not some weird loader, and the ratcheting assembly of the magazine takes the primary wear part of a box magazine (the feed spring) out entirely. The important thing to remember this was a prototype developed primarily by a private inventor. Testing and trials to develop it would have yielded fixes to issues like that. The british government decided to double down on the lewis gun because it was a known quantity. With a little bit of work this could have become fantastically better, and cheaper, than the Lewis.

[@kingerikthegreatest.ofall.7860]

I was a seaforth Highlander and don’t remember seeing this very interesting rifle in the museum.

[@weaponscurator1412]

Depends on when you were in, I have had old timers come and tell me they were doing run downs at Vokes with it in the 70s, but afterwards nobody knew enough to care and it sat in the sad safes that we had before the move for decades.

[@kingerikthegreatest.ofall.7860]

I was in during the first gulf war.

[@weaponscurator1412]

It was there... sitting in the museum safes in the weapons vault.

[@weaponscurator1412]

Curatorship of the Museum changed around 2010 and it was basically a sweeping away of cobwebs.

[@kingerikthegreatest.ofall.7860]

I Probably didn't know it was at that time then.

[@frajecz]

It seems to me that the magazine and indexing mechanism on the gun are quite similar to the usual feeding mechanisms found in belt-fed machine guns.

[@asteroidrules]

I didn't realize just how strange that magazine was from looking at it, it almost reminds me of the Blake rifle, a manually indexed rotary mag.

[@nate0462]

The new substitute Ian

[@doraran2138]

"Two way range", a nice euphemism for combat/firefight.

[@carminescurse]

On a two way range.....that's the best analogy I've ever heard.....of anything.

[@509Gman]

Ian’s looking and sounding kinda funny today😜

[@johnmitchell923]

Sick vid bloke keep em coming

[@MushroomCloudGaming]

Been waiting to see a video on this interesting piece for a while :]

[@1nv1c7u5m4n30]

You've caught my interest, sir. Fine work. A Subscriber you've gained.

[@461Masterchief]

Does this mean that Gun Jesus won't talk about this bizzare forgotten weapon?

[@teppokuusisto144]

Fireselector? Pressed forward = fullauto

[@BlokeontheRange]

Nope.

[@kenibnanak5554]

@@BlokeontheRange Did they add a disconnector?

[@kencurtis508]

Great video, thanks for sharing.

[@Activated_Complex]

“You know how Jerry likes to use captured Lewis guns against us? Bloody cheek! So let’s make something that will give the poor fellow one when he tries to fire it! No cooling fins, it only needs to look the part.”

[@kingerikthegreatest.ofall.7860]

Lovely piece of kit.

[@Bikerbob59]

Amazing gun have never heard of it. Thanks for sharing.

[@Mildcat743]

Since this is WWI we were talking about, it was likely designed for walking fire first, aimed fire second.

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

A lot of practical experience has been incorporated by the looks of things, could have been a good and inexpensive LMG.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

Well, inexpensive at least. I'm not so sure about *good*.

[@kenibnanak5554]

practical tool room experience maybe, but clearly almost no field experience or attention paid to reports from the trenches about what the end result should have as the goal, beyond use the Ross as the template.

[@weaponscurator1412]

Trials documents from France indicated a very positive response, and an order for several thousand was placed in 1918.

[@foamer443]

@@weaponscurator1412 As a former grunt, the first thing that comes to mind, particularly regarding the circumstance of the period, is where is the bi-pod?

[@weaponscurator1412]

@@foamer443 I don't recall seeing a picture of one with a bipod. It's possible the bipod for the Lewis gun would work, but I would have to compare measurements.

[@LeFeuauxpoudres]

Super rare! Merci!

[@doktormusmatta]

This rifle is basically peak WW1

[@bitfunk24]

Something I've noticed about these old ww1/2 era open bolt guns is that the bolt travels soooo far, and so much space has to be dedicated for that traversal. Why is this? Guns like BAR and Lewis gun both shoot essentially the same round and both seem to be able to reduce their bolt assembly travel to a much more minimal displacement, and both were made around the same time as this.

[@jamesliu8095]

Those Canadians have unlocked blaster technology

[@sosecherofsky7985]

There is a constant buzzing sound for the first 4:55 of the video, not sure whats caused it but it's worth looking into!

[@1joshjosh1]

I love my Ross. Just got to keep it clean!

[@robertsmith4681]

I was actually surprised to find out that there does not seem to be a single video out of there or set of detailed pictures of this thing being taken apart. That mystery "tab" associated with the bolt handle is puzzling.

[@weaponscurator1412]

I know for a fact that a folder of photos like this exists

[@jorgerodrigogomezflores5711]

Thanks to Battlefield 1 for showing this weapon to a new generation.

[@HypocriticYT]

I would not trust my life to that one. Very interesting!

[@kentr2424]

Has anyone ever fired one of these since WW1?

[@BlokeontheRange]

The lore at the museum was that they took it out and shot it as late as the 70's but from the condition it's in I don't believe that.

[@martentrudeau6948]

Interesting automatic rifle, very unusual looking, it's not commonly known about and it does look like a prototype.

[@snowflakemelter1172]

Ian says " You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny? "

[@Brainwashed101]

Late 19th-century/early 20th century guns just give off the strongest space opera vibe. This wouldn't be out of place slung across some scoundrel's back on Tattooine.

[@dobypilgrim6160]

Good one! Thanks.

[@Otokichi786]

Ian McCollum brought me here. Easier to reload (sorta) with that long/high charger than a Lewis gun pancake magazine. Badly needs a bipod for prone position and a tripod for static defense. "The Bolke" falls short of Ian's more comprehensive look at the Huot.

[@thebotrchap]

Otokichi786 The Bloke and I do our channel as a hobby, Ian does it as a job. Subtle but important difference.

[@FiveTwoSevenTHR]

Looks like it could be adapted to a belt fed with the way that magazine works. I'm guessing that lever on the bolt handle was a safety to prevent the bolt from getting snagged on something and creating an unintentional discharge.

[@tssteelx]

Is that leaver your semi and full auto selector? Does the drum reloading port clear the rifle so it can be loaded while still on the rifle?

[@jesseramsay3975]

Just at a glance the loading port for the drum is to the left right under the the big chunk of reciprocating parts.

[@mossfoster5317]

I don't think you'll get slapped by the cover, it looks like it stays still while the internals move, I expect you use it as a cheek weld.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Err, recoil is a thing mate ;)

[@SportbikerNZ]

Very interesting. First I've seen one of these.

[@northumbriabushcraft1208]

Ive never seen one of those or even heard of one. A Ross but as a autorifle, that is a fancy bit of gear.

[@allangibson8494]

A Lee Metford as an automatic rifle is even weirder - the New Zealanders got it to work.

[@gdj11]

"Two way range". Never heard that one before. That's awesome. Made me laugh.

[@loganholmberg2295]

I looks like a pretty heavy gun. You think it would still slap that bad eh? Also we are talking the Ross Rifle....I'd take "liked" with a grain of salt if any of the jerks involved in the original Ross had their hands in this cookie jar too.lol

[@EndingTimes0]

Wow, it's like it was built to be belt fed then they said screw it, let's make a drum mag and repurpose these parts.

[@SonsOfLorgar]

Yet that drum mag seams easily convertable to take a right hand belt feed using German 49rnd or US desintegrating steel belts

[@zandorvorkov7257]

That's a BIG gun!

[@neuzdost1939]

Theres no reason at all why this cover over the bolt should be so goddamn big....like what was they thinking?

[@weaponscurator1412]

Prototype. It just needed to work as a "proof of concept" and then be later refined for production.

[@Ashen_Night116]

@@weaponscurator1412 That was exactly what these ones were, there was more specifications by Enfield that would've made it a much, much better weapon.

[@issacbrown1087]

The switch looks like a full auto switch.

[@carn109]

wow as of writing there is 1k Likes to 0 Dislikes! Great job bloke!

[@TheUnclefester13]

Wonder if they have the plans for this thing laying around. I have a few bolt guns that need to be converted. Looks a maladorian design. I like it.

[@greyareaRK1]

FW just reviewed a NZ bolt-action conversion, but in their case they completed development. Very different looking gun though.

[@kurttank_1909]

Now when you say „over Rob‘s shoulder“........is that the same Rob I‘m thinking of?

[@solid2713]

that would be a great star wars blaster frame

[@George_Doc]

So charismatic-automatic!

[@snipersl270]

I expect the part behind the bolt handle that you didn't know the purpose of was to lock the bolt forward permitting the rifle to fire a single shot. You would then need to manually cycle the action again to fire it and trip the lever forward to fire another single, or it would remain back permitting full auto. This is supposition and inference from what I was able to see in your video, if anyone knows better feel free to correct me.

[@BlokeontheRange]

No, it really isn't that. It fires from an open bolt, and that little thingy there certainly doesn't do anything like that.

[@joearnold6881]

Lil’ John’s favorite gun.

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

Wow. I had no idea about these bolt action rifle conversions. .

[@DarthJeep]

Maybe the "mystery latch" allows for single or semi-auto fire mode? or acts as an additional safety incase the rifle is dropped?

[@BlokeontheRange]

No. Trust me, we tried everything we could think of...

[@charlieg9079]

The lever on the bolt looks like it’s re designed new safety to replace the regular rifle one

[@tracybeme1597]

I'm thinking that flappy thing on the bolt handle is a single shot break. It looks like the lug should match-up to the screw slot, preventing recoil auto fire. Cool gizmo but quite unwieldy.

[@BlokeontheRange]

No, it isn't that.

[@makotoyuki2199]

HOLY F***! British Swiss Forgotten Weapons? Or as they say in Schwytzer deutsch, “Vergessene Waffen”?

[@MegaBanne]

This gun is genius. If it was invented a few years earlier it would probably have been a success.

[@mazkact]

RIGHT, if only we could only turn a Ross rifle into a Lewis machine gun.

[@imbored742]

I wonder if the dingus on the bolt handle had something to do with causing it to fire from an open bolt?

[@mrjockt]

That addition to the bolt handle, since it pushes down on the sear when applied, could it possibly have been an early attempt at making this a selective fire weapon?

[@BlokeontheRange]

No

[@vpnchick]

Wait, i can tell this came from Hunt Showdown.

[@Blastmaster1972]

Interesting device. Never heard of it before.

[@arieheath7773]

Hmm, seems like the best way to shoot it would be at an angle like a chauchat.

[@AltGrendel]

Wonder if that second lever is to hold the bolt assembly all the way back during maintenance.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Nope. It doesn't hold anything back.

[@leeknivek]

you’re telling me someone built this with 1916 machine tools

[@coreymerrill3257]

Probably a mainspring disconnect that doesnt work or is left over for manual operation .

[@BlokeontheRange]

Nope. Doesn't disconnect the mainspring.