The Truth About Keeping Ammunition In Switzerland

[@gorbalsboy]

My goodness,a hypothesis proven by facts,this man is a threat to public order

[@hoilst265]

This is basically 90% of gun debate online: "If it ain't how it is in MURRICA, then it don't exist". That's...that's it. So, because you can't buying 9mm out of the vending machine in the school cafeteria in case that cheerleader who turned you down for prom took more rounds than necessary, it ain't possible to buy ammo at all!

[@CharleyVCU1988]

We mUsT trust tHe SciENCe No not like that!

[@Brazilian.Off.Duty.Cop.]

​@hoilst265 You consider yourself pro gun and say sh1t like this? Thank you for working for the enemy, we don't have enough enemies working to strip us of our freedom worldwide, right? I'm not american, btw.

[@nyet_maker7948]

😂😂😂

[@theeddorian]

@@hoilst265 That is poppycock. Ninety percent of the gun "debate" are ignorati screaming past each other, with their fingers in their ears.

[@TheFlyingPlectrum]

I'm a UK civilian living in Switzerland. The first time I ordered ammo on line I was fretting about not being home when it was delivered but imagine my surprise when I got home from work to find the clearly marked package of 223 sitting on top of my mail box in the entrance to my apartment block. I can't understand how anyone could think you can't buy and keep ammo in Switzerland there are dozens of online shops!

[@SonsOfLorgar]

Roflmao! Are you trying to give Blokes American viewers a double stroke?🤣 1) You ordered ammo for home delivery without issues. 2) It got delivered in a semi-public drop off location where it sat, in the open, in factory labeled packaging with no doubt of contents *for hours!* And it didn't get stolen!

[@TheFlyingPlectrum]

@@SonsOfLorgar Welcome to Switzerland :-)

[@DanMulberry]

@@SonsOfLorgar Uhhhh, you can do that in America too.

[@davedavids57]

@@TheFlyingPlectrum Try moving to Austria, only pistol ammunition needs any form of licence so if you want rifle or shotgun ammo it's sold over the counter with no ID needed whatsoever. Added to that you can buy a Cat C firearm with just an ID if you are an EU or Swiss citizen resident in Austria (there is a three day cooling off period though).

[@Excelnaught-f4b]

@@SonsOfLorgar Where in America can’t you do this? I live in a blue state and get shipments of thousands of rounds every few months

[@DavidCowie2022]

I am determined to misunderstand the line about "hardcore ammunition."

[@cedhome7945]

It's all about penetration..... Allegedly 😃

[@matteoorlandi856]

It's a type of ammo to be sold only to pro, hardcore shooters. For the weekend shooters like us only casual ammunitions are allowed.

[@colbunkmust]

You need more lube when using hardcore ammo to facilitate deeper penetration...

[@markvondach3617]

😂 You made my Day

[@richardprice5978]

@@PORSCHE_COUNTRY. out-right ban on arms and ammunition-ect is dumb/stupid i can see the local fire marshal's and having parts of the year/unusually-dry that are a no-go as far as home-storage of M16/OG-1600&1780's-models and or taxpayers-rounds that's/1970's~*Swiss-models/historically-usa/+/uk better than the 2024USA's and or USA isn't meant to have a standing-army( coastal-gard/navy and local cop's&election-sharifs getting somewhat of a pass as local-militia-memberships and merchants/privateer's are meant for primary-way's )

[@Irishpewtuber]

What's hard to understand about that? The army's ammo is the army's property. No army in the world would allow service personnel to swan around with pockets full of issue ammunition. When we were issued ammo for the range we had to hand the empty brass back in, that's how the Irish defence forces handled that. Secondly, are you eligible for militia service there as an immigrant to Switzerland if your a naturalised citizen?

[@BlokeontheRange]

If you naturalise young enough, you're obliged to do service.

[@MrThecyrille34]

If you naturalize before the age of 30 you have to go to the military yes.

[@anonym3017]

@@MrThecyrille34 if you are naturalized before 25 you have a service duty like every other swiss guy under 25. If you are naturalized after 25 but before 35 you just get to pay 3% in additional income taxes

[@Andy-Gibb]

In South Africa in the 1980s I completed my national service and after that I was able to go once a year to the local army base and draw and pay for military ammo to use for shooting and target practice. They had 22Lr, 303 British, 223 and 308. I could buy a case of each caliber all I had to have was my military ID no for the paperwork no problem. I used to get my yearly ammo until just before the new government came to power. There was no issues. I don't think it was advertised but it was available if you had a force no. I don't know if it is still like that. All the ammo was Full metal jacket and the 303 were loaded with cordite. I was able to get a crate of 308 FNM sniper ammo one year and used that to hunt and it was the most accurate ammo I ever had. On the back of the shell it said FNM and had a circle with a cross in it. I think a crate of 22LR was 20 rand about 2 dollars US and the wooden crate held 1350 rounds of ammo in boxes of 50 rounds. I wore the barrel out of my 22LR rifle. Those were the days.

[@trioptimum9027]

I think it's just confusing because there are a bunch of articles floating around that were written for a Swiss audience that knew what the deal was with the cans, and so they don't bother to explain that private ammo was always and still is a thing, they just have a headline like "No More Ammo At Home" and then an article that talks about the phasing out of the taschenmunition without ever mentioning private ammo. It's not hard to understand when you have that context, but if you didn't and you just read the article, I could see how people would get confused.

[@maximilianmustermann5763]

I often hear people say that you are only allowed to load two rounds in a gun in Germany. They extrapolate this falsehood from the fact that hunters are only allowed to load 2+1 rounds in their rifles *while hunting*. It's supposed to prevent hunting accidents with auto-loaders I guess. But this doesn't apply to anything else. On the range, it's 20+1 round for pistols and 10+1 (sadly) for rifles. It's also hard to believe for some people that I can actually go to a gun shop in Germany and buy 50K rounds of .223 and 50k rounds of 9mm and the only legal thing I have to think about is not to overload my car (because that would be in violation of road traffic regulations)

[@baneofbanes]

Here in the states you often get people claiming that guns are entirely banned in Europe, and that gets brought up in the gun debate a lot. So for many theirs no middle ground between guns for all and no guns at all, and you get called a liar or they just don’t pay attention to you if you bring up actual European gun laws.

[@sierraecho884]

Germany is retarded. I have never seen such dumb laws, except in Australia and the UK.

[@sierraecho884]

"...the only legal thing I have to think about is.." Because you had to jump through 10 hoops prior with those dumb 1y courses and other stupid bullshit. And the gov. can still take away your ammo and guns because you have no right to own any of it, it´s a privilege in Germany not a right.

[@sierraecho884]

@@baneofbanes Czech republic and Switzerland has one of the most open gun laws. Germany and the UK on the other hand a re huge negative example. In Germany you can´t even carry most pocket knifes for the most dumb reasons imaginable, in the UK you can´t even carry pepper spray. The US laws are also dumb on some other level but at least you guys have a human right to be able to defend yourself with a fireamt which in Germany for instance there is no right for that at all. You are simply at the mercy of the Gov.

[@erik_dk842]

@@baneofbanes It's practically impossible to get a license to carry a pistol for self defense, and you're not allowed to use it for self defense at home.

[@Gurfi28]

Tiny correction: There are units in the Swiss armed forces that are still issued ammunition that they are allowed to take home. But those are purely professional units such as KSK, MP or KAMIR.

[@jonc4403]

I'm American, and I've known that "Swiss can't have ammo at home" nonsense was false for years. It's the same as the US, taking US military-owned ammo home is a no-no.

[@theeddorian]

It is harder to buy ammunition in parts of the US like California.

[@mikethemaniac1]

@@theeddorian Not really. Just takes a bit longer and you have to sign a paper. Unless you're trying to buy ammo online.

[@theeddorian]

@@mikethemaniac1 I live in California, and while a court decision certainly has _theoretically_ opened things up a bit, the appeals process is not over as far as I know. You cannot, under state law, buy mail - order ammunition. It is still easier in Switzerland.

[@richardprice5978]

i like the seal-can/something-like-it-methodology and illegal-governmental storage+ownership better than currently army that's not supposed to be standing at readiness for tyranny-ect can'd/set-funding-weekly is closer to how founder's will/1790's~ is mentioned

[@omirlino]

@@theeddorianor you could just drive to a neighboring state and by all that you want

[@Braun30]

The only ammo I was forbidden to keep was the little can of ammo for war use when entering service in case of mobilisation.

[@neutral_af]

One slight note I'll add but it's more for general info: Outside of carry permits you're also allowed to carry a loaded firearm (rifle or shotgun) if you're a licensed hunter currently hunting. (It still needs to be unloaded if in the car or not actively on the hunt. for example you're chilling in your hunting lodge)

[@brunol-p_g8800]

*if hunting is allowed in your canton, not every canton allows hunting. For example here in Geneva hunting isn’t allowed.

[@neutral_af]

@brunol-p_g8800 Geneva is the *only* Canton that doesn't allow hunting

[@_f355]

Peter Santenello released a video from Switzerland just yesterday, and the Swiss guy who's been showing him around also said something along the lines of "reservists can take their rifle home, but I think they can't have ammo". I immediately thought of you :)

[@maximilianmustermann5763]

I saw that, too. It immediately reminded me of some of the stupid stuff people in Germany say about our gun laws. I talked to a German hunter recently and he was completely perplexed that I had a .357 mag revolver and 9mm guns as a sports shooter. He was under the impression that sport shooters are only allowed .22 lr for olympic shooting. I don't even want to know what other people think, who have no connection to the whole gun scene at all.

[@rebralhunter6069]

I've been waiting for the video so long bloke! After seeing you argue with people near daily about this on xitter as well as encountering these people myself its nice there's a concise video to show people on the topic

[@DavidCowie2022]

X is often pronounced like English /sh/ in Portuguese, so xitter would be shitter. Seems appropriate somehow.

[@trashbag5051]

Unfortunately the people that need to see this, never will. But those 300m shooters are quite something. I appreciate them and their dedication to that one very specific skill but damn, many of them are incredibly isolated from the rest of the swiss "gun community" I used to be in a 300m club and to some of those people its like unless it's a stgw90 or 57, you shouldn't be allowed to have it. There are some people there that will genuinely look at you like you're a terrorist because you say you own an AK or a suppressor, asking you "why" because all you really need is a stgw57 (painted red of course with 3000 chf worth of G+E parts) and AR15s are just toys that would never be as accurate of course. Oh and don't forget that scopes will instantly destroy the bullet trap at the 300m range, that's why theyre highly forbidden. Yes I'm a bit frustrated lol

[@DaIssimo]

In the US there are the "M1 Garand" shooters who are like this. 😆

[@thechilledonion9313]

Yeah, I know right. I still hear some people saying that the stg-90 can shoot 5.56mm Nato ammo and the swiss ammo GP90 aka 5.6mm swiss, while a regular nato rifle would explode with 5.6mm swiss. They are unable to understand that GP90 is a nato 5.56 ammo according to STANAG 4172.

[@trioptimum9027]

@@thechilledonion9313 Wasn't that actually a thing with some Spanish ammo? The CETME could handle NATO-standard 7.62, but some of the Spanish ammo was outside spec and would cause problems for your G3/FAL, or something like that? (Don't quote me, this is half-remembered and I might be completely wrong.)

[@thechilledonion9313]

@trioptimum9027 Absolutely no idea. I've never heard of that before. 😕

[@DaibhidhBhoAlba]

Ironically, Switzerland has stricter laws on the storage of ammo components than the UK. In the UK, there's no legal obligation to keep ammunition components locked away safely, other than elements subject to an Explosives Certificate (black powder, Pyrodex and 777). In fact, anyone can buy and own most ammunition components without any licence at all, while you need a licence to buy primers and powder, but not to keep them (other than the explosives licence exemption above). And in the UK you can still legally buy S2 shotgun cartridges without a licence at all, albeit most RFDs won't sell them these days unless you present a certificate. But we can't own handguns or semi-auto fullbore, because they're sooooooo dangerous; only criminals are able to own them in most of the UK these days.

[@TheOz91]

Yeah I've seen videos of people reloading centerfire ammunition, in the UK-in their backyard. Yet, the police deemed lever-release rifles to "shoot too quickly" and thus why it is banned in the Offensive Weapons Act of 2019...

[@PaperHunter]

​@@TheOz91Shooting too quickly with the aid of pound coins in the buffer tube or a piece of card in the fire control group, making it easily semi auto.

[@florihae]

Ehm...we do not need a licence in Switzerland, to buy these things, what are you talking about? We only show a proof that we are not criminals, that's it

[@davedavids57]

I don't think ammunition components are controlled after purchase in Switzerland? I live on the Swiss/Austrian border and haven't heard it's any different to here in Austria or in Switzerland when I go shooting there. Here amazingly enough Black Powder is not subject to any controls whatsoever (apart from fire regulations about storing too much in one location). It's only pistol ammo and some jacketed modern military rifle ammo that has any restrictions whatsoever here. If you want to buy say 50,000 308 rounds to build a wall out of you wouldn't even need to show ID if you looked over 18.

[@cedhome7945]

Try explaining this concept to Mr plod when he's searching your house on a flimsy excuse. There are lots of gun grabs going on at the moment around the country.... It's for everyones safety apparently....

[@TK-rz6hj]

Love these videos, keep up the great work, bloke!

[@The_Casual_Collector]

Thank you for this clear and concise video. I had always wondered what the Swiss laws were regarding ammunition. Two of my favorite firearms I own are my Swiss K31s. Absolutely beautiful weapons. I also have a decent cache of the GP11 ammunition, awesome stuff.

[@14goldmedals]

Cheers from 🇨🇦 interesting info. I used to own a Swiss Arms (PE-90) Classic Green (as it was marked). Great rifle and built like a tank. The folding handle makes choosing hard cases easy.

[@kleinerprinz99]

Thanks for clarifying something I never heard of. The laws do make sense for law abiding citizen and general firearm safety.

[@markvondach3617]

As someone who is in a 300 Meter club but also enjoys shoogting at private ranges and even started to compete in CMA I get shocked over and over again how little the 300 Meter fuds now about other posibiltities to shoot

[@xboman]

Very good video in California used to be hard to get a carry permit not anymore. It’s just very expensive.

[@jameslooker4791]

I remember hearing some version of the army stopped issuing ammunition because rifles and ammo were being stored carelessly and lost ammo became a point of frustration for soldiers and commanders.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Nope, it was cos there were always a few suicides / homicides with the Taschenmunition, which the Feds found embarrassing. Losing your spam can was a chargeable offence.

[@daskrokodil4584]

Living in Switzerland I buy most ammo in web shops and Swiss Post is delivering to my doorstep. Sometimes I buy in stores. While being member of a traditional pistol shooting club I buy 9mm privately, because it is cheaper than the army's ammo we have in the club. No-one buys 7.5mm Swiss privately (with the exception of one single package out of curiosity), because army's GP11 is so good and cheap at the range. But actually, I even buy .223 privately for my SIG 550 (usually GGG), and, of course, .308 for my hunting rifle as well as .44 Mag for revolver and lever action - .44 and .308 aren't army calibres in Switzerland, and while GP90 is quite good I can find the same price or less with comparable private offers in the web.

[@krockpotbroccoli65]

I know now why GP11 is so hard to find.

[@Ungood-jl5ep]

Their reimported GP11 must be insanely expensive.

[@Braun30]

I have a bag of ammo received after a WK in the early 1990s. The source was a ammo return which was too late to be loaded on return train car. Idea was to bring it up the following year and get it shot, problem was that ammo changed from Nikel coated to copper coated. So I went home with the ammo and is still is in my safe since then.

[@DavidNefelimSlayer]

Nickel plated brass. Copper coated appearance is brass. 😉

[@robgrey6183]

I'm sure they'll be by to arrest you shortly.

[@SwissBloke]

Regarding the Munitionsbefehl, it only applies to SAT-related events so your day-to-day ammo purchases are untouched. This was confirmed to us during our annual "rapport d'instruction" meeting with the higher-ups: can't take ammo during OS, FS, JS or competitions, regular practice is fine Worth noting that you can still buy ammunition from the "naughty list", you simply need a specific acquisition permit similar to when you want to buy a select-fire, and some HP are exempted from the list

[@BlokeontheRange]

Huh, that's odd they told you that, cos Munitionsbefehl Art. 1.2 is quite clear that it applies to all ammo involved in the Schiesswesen ausser Dienst... And it's also clear from either the Schiessverordnung or Schiessverordnung VBS too.

[@deputygunner]

very interesting. Thank you for the video

[@g6otu]

I didn't know much about 7.5swiss, just paused your video to have a look. It seems both the Swiss with this cartridge and the Scandinavians with the 6.5x55 were way ahead in the 1890s compared to say the Americans.

[@RammsteinDevoted]

The humble 6.5x55 has taken an ungodly amount of deer, caribou, reindeer etc in Northern Europe.

[@Gungnir762]

@@RammsteinDevoted 6.5 Swede.. hard to come by in NE America..

[@g6otu]

@@RammsteinDevoted high BC my friend, oh and the shot placement.

[@Haaraff]

The .30 M1 ball actually used the same (or a derived) projectile as the GP11.

[@steveclancy6474]

Yep, live there, buy online, delivered by the nice post, store at home - all legal. Just do it right.

[@recklesssquirel5962]

... does having a bunch of ammo sitting in ammo cans next to the front door count as doing it right?

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

I've never heard anyone claim you can't keep ANY ammunition at home in Switzerland. That's quite the fuddery

[@doejohn8674]

@@chickenfishhybrid44 This comes mostly up on social media discussions when someone says, oh, you know, all Swiss take a full auto machine gun home, and then someone replies, ah but they are not allowed to have ammo for it... I have seen it on twitter, youtube many times...

[@ISAACcookie]

@@chickenfishhybrid44 it's a common responce to people using switzerland as a defence for gun ownership.

[@mrfunswitch]

@@recklesssquirel5962 according to federal law, if you live alone for example, the locked front door is already gtg, because the requirement "no access for unauthorized third parties" is fullfilled. but yeah, I'd still recommend using a safe.

[@stackscustominc1]

I only spotted one thing semi wrong, RUAG did produce a batch of authentic cartridge GP90 for Swiss civilian market 2 year ago. It was new ammunition and not surplus, we bought many crates of it

[@lohikarhu734]

It all sounds reasonable and very clear, unless you live in countries without "reasonable" firearms laws...

[@luloadventure]

Thank you so much for sharing this explanation. Danke vielmals. FG

[@MistyShadows]

Correction on "California Carry". In California, thanks to the Bruen decision, there is no longer a requirement to justify a carry permit. You still need a permit and the process can be expensive and take awhile, but if you have a clear record you should be able to acquire one. This is a pretty recent (last year or two) change though.

[@Subgunman]

Never checked your bio, wasn’t aware you were Swiss! That English accent had me fooled ! Bravo! Having lived in the states all of my life until I moved to the Southern EU back in 2006, I was an avid collector of WWII firearms and well as modern firearms which included semi auto rifles and pistols, not to mention hunting shotguns. Now moving to the EU I had to sell off my collection of "toys" since the country I moved to is not a gun friendly place. Trying to get a permit here for even a shotgun for trap, skeet or sporting clays is ridiculous! Must be a member of a club participating in such events. This means traveling to other parts of the country for some of these events. Not an easy task considering one must take a ferry boat to get to the mainland. One must also have a transport permit for said type of firearm. Now there is a catch 22 to this. When you apply to purchase a shotgun many fail to also apply for a transport permit as well. Yeah, nice forget to do that and your butt is in a sling. How did that weapon get to your home? In your car, how else. Where is your transport permit? What permit? No one informed me I needed a transport permit. It’s like the question, "Do you still beat your mother?" Any way you answer it you're in deep sh!t! As for handguns it is more restrictive,you must be in a club for at least a year and have competed in at least six events to qualify for a permit to purchase. Now to purchase any firearm, you need to get a psyche exam at a government subsidized hospital by a government psychiatrist! One must have served in the military as well. Well my service was in the states and the country I currently reside in are NATO members. I am a qualified military rifle and pistol instructor as well as an armorer for a multitude of military and civilian small and medium arms. Well I guess it’s not good enough for them including a military psyche exam from the military in the states. Go figure, as we say in the states "Fear the government that fears your firearms" and "a man with a firearm is a free citizen but those without are subjects of the state ". Thank goodness the Swiss got it right!

[@BlokeontheRange]

I'm not Swiss. Yet.

[@worldtraveler930]

I was a collector of Swiss firearms here in Texas I would Really love to get my hands-on some of that GP11 spam cam ammo if for nothing more than the Bragging Rights!!! 🤠👍🇨🇭

[@TheWirksworthGunroom]

Meanwhile, in the UK, apparently nobody has any form of firearm whatever.

[@petergaskin1811]

Says who?

[@contactacb]

@@petergaskin1811 He's satirically repeating the often held misbelief by other countries (& many here in the UK) that no-one other than the Police and Army has a firearm, completely blanking the existence of multiple types of firearms held and used for work (pest control, euthanisation) & leisure (clays, small & large bore target shooting & much more)

[@TheOz91]

@@contactacb This is also why certain people in the UK media needed to do a "hit piece" on legal firearms ownership because the legal process of acquiring and possessing firearms apparently means letting you have them if you pass the requirements and that 10,000 people per year passing the scrutiny of getting a Firearms Certificate is "concerning" somehow. That being said, practical shooting sports are increasingly more popular in the UK, including 2-gun type events (though "two gun" here means rifle and shotgun) and also fast action shooting with .22 AR-15 rifles.

[@maximilianmustermann5763]

oi mate, you got a loicence for that foirearm?

[@fdr3898]

Some people do have guns, it's just the most heavily regulated place in the Western world... :)

[@dcs6500]

I guess you will have to do a video on the Swiss self defense laws next.

[@daskrokodil4584]

Self defense is not a thing in Switzerland. While in Switzerland no-one wants to tell you what you can or cannot do inside your home it is quite hard to get a carry permit (if not impossible for most people). Good message: when I leave my flat the last thing I ever would need would be a gun - except when I go to the range or hunting.

[@robgrey6183]

@@daskrokodil4584 I guess I could say the same thing about my community here in Wyoming. But I have a natural right to defend myself, so I carry a gun. The State does not interfere with this here.

[@daskrokodil4584]

@@robgrey6183 I'm the last person to deny someone a right. Before the “harmonization” of Swiss gun laws with the surrounding EU carry was not a topic in Switzerland. I tried to figure out why this was changed - and did not find any other reason. The upside is that we “Inländer” (comparable to green card owners without citizenship) can have guns the same way the Swiss can.

[@PendragonDaGreat]

I went ahead and DL'd this video in case the YT overlords get uppity. This is an excellent resource. I never fully believed that private ammo was verboten in Switzerland, but the lie/half truth is just believable enough that it will definitely persist as long as it's useful to someone.

[@mrfunswitch]

great video! I'm a firearms collector here in switzerland and the article 15 of the swiss federal firearms law seems more interesting to me now. for example, I own a 40mm grenade launcher (perfectly legal) and therefore I'm allowed to own non restricted 40mm less lethal rounds, like the B&T SIR for example. but does that mean, people from a canton, in which they can't get grenade launcher permits, are not allowed to own any 40mm ammo because they can't own the firearm for it? I always thought people are allowed to own any non restricted ammo, as long as they're qualified for owning firearms in general.

[@BlokeontheRange]

No, they only have to fulfil a requirement of Art. 24 WV to be able to buy it. That's the only requirement.

[@mrfunswitch]

@@BlokeontheRange thanks for the quick reply but art. 24 is about importing firearms and ammo. how does this affect Art. 15? 😅

[@BlokeontheRange]

Art. 24 WV is not about importing firearms and ammo. I think you're looking at Art. 24 WG, which is indeed about that. Art. 24 WV contains a specific reference to Art. 15 and 16 WG.

[@mrfunswitch]

@@BlokeontheRange sorry, my bad. here's the text of the art. 24 wv: "Section 3: Acquisition of ammunition and ammunition components (Articles 15 and 16 WG) Art. 24 1 If ammunition or ammunition components for a weapon are transferred, the transferor must ensure that there are no obstacles to the transfer in accordance with Article 8 Paragraph 2 WG. 2 The transferor may assume that there is no obstacle if: a. there is no indication to the contrary; and b. The person purchasing the weapon presents an exceptional permit or a weapons acquisition certificate that was issued to them at least two years before the acquisition, or a valid European firearms passport. 3 If the transferring person doubts, due to the circumstances, that the requirements for the transfer are met, he or she must provide the transferee with a private extract from the criminal record information system VOSTRA, which was issued no more than three months before the transfer, or with the written consent of the person to be acquired requests the necessary information from the relevant authorities or persons." the art. 24a WV is only about magazines. so as I read it, even tho the art. 24 wv is about the art. 15 wg, it doesn't say that you're allowed to own ammo for a firearms you're not allowed to own (at least that's what I understand when reading art. 24 wv). what do you think about that? I mean all the regular ammo like .22lr to 50bmg for example include firearms which every gun owner in switzerland can own but as I already mentioned, some cantons don't issue 40mm grenade launcher permits at all and so according to the art. 15 wg, people who live in cantons, which don't issue grenade launcher permits at all, would be prohibited from owning dedicated 40mm ammo, like the B&T SIR rounds for example (the only exception would be people who already acquired a 40mm grenade launcher while living in a different canton, which granted them a permit for a 40mm launcher). but it would also mean, that hornets nests for .22lr for example, would be legal for them. I guess I'll make a video about this topic in the near future.

[@trioptimum9027]

So, to give a TLDR from a different angle, there is CERTAIN ammunition that you can't take home (because it belongs to the army, or because it is subsidized and sold real cheap at a club for use there and so still kinda partly belongs to the army), and also if you're under 18 you can shoot at a club but you can't take ammo home. But if you're over 18 and your ammo didn't come from the army, you're good.

[@posttenebraslux200]

"your entire shooting experience is at a 300m rifle club" good god

[@JohanLundgren-t6n]

Clear and informative but just a small question why a mem at 2:04 refering to Sweden? 😂 on a side note the rules about ammunition appears similar in both countries.

[@BlokeontheRange]

ThAtS ThE JoKe

[@wacojones8062]

Thanks!

[@TheTeeWorldsfreak]

Online ordering guns and ammo is super convenient. Coming from a country not being able to order ammo online...

[@deadsweetheart1]

I live in the us and never heard this about Switzerland

[@chocol8thunda]

Heard UK accent....stayed for the info. Up here in Canada, I order ammo online all the time. UPS shows up with a 1000 round brick of 9mm. heavy. has no idea...I let em know, some are cool, other are horrified. Ive bought 90% of my firearms online.

[@robgrey6183]

Here in Wyoming I've bought most of my fi*r*armzs face to face, for cash, with no records kept.

[@DagaYute]

This got me remembering - growing up in Hong Kong even though guns were heavily regulated there was actually a Swiss Rifle club which allowed Swiss citizens to shoot their annual rifle qualification on the local (then) British Army ranges. Is this common for the Swiss expat community in other places?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Yes, it's still a thing.

[@imperialhonorguard1483]

I got a K31 for 485 from royal tiger imports. It's a 1936 production

[@mikesuch9021]

No Hardcore? Shoot we got Jello that's Hardcore.

[@dunbar555]

LoL, I keep about 50k ammo at home... and guess what.. only 5k are 22lr

[@wrxs1781]

Nothing the matter with that, you wont run short.

[@togsikmale5625]

I am Swiss and I order large quantities (10,000+) of every caliber due to the lower price. So every now and then a lorry unloads a whole bunch of ammo at my house. Most of my Swiss acquaintances have no idea how that works, believe it’s illegal and are always very surprised to see the palettes in my basement.

[@davedavids57]

Is there a limit to the amount of ammo you can store before you have to tell the local authorities in case of fire? I think in certain Bundeslander here in Austria there are rules to protect the fire service. You can still keep as much as you want technically but the fire service want to have details.

[@SwissBloke]

@@davedavids57 Depends on the canton (state). Zürich, for instance, limits the storage to 300kg of ammunition without permitting from the cantonal fire police (VVB art. F § 17 let. e)

[@trioptimum9027]

To be fair, I would also be surprised if I went in someone's basement and they had palettes of ammo. One palette, okay, you can stack all your ammo on it and it keeps it off the floor, maybe your basement gets damp, makes sense. More than one? That's a double-take-inducing amount of ammo. (Full disclosure: I have a double-take-inducing amount of cheese in my fridge right now, because it was on sale at a good price and I know it'll last. So I'm not judging.)

[@daskrokodil4584]

Looks like you're into IPSC or is there any other reason to buy ammo not in the usual amounts of 1'000 or 2'000 rounds? ;-) I mean I pay between 11.50 and 12.50 for 50 rounds of 9mm, is there still a huge advantage in price to buy 10'000 rounds instead of, say, 2'000? Most people I know would start to reload in this range. The question is serious I am at this point myself.

[@kingerikthegreatest.ofall.7860]

It grows in the fields.

[@newdefsys]

But the internet said so. It has to be true.

[@rff999]

Not only are you allowed ammo at home, but there are even laws about how to store LARGE quantities in any one room at home (for fire reasons) based on weight of powder etc... 😊

[@SamF-vc9gh]

Hey bloke. In south africa we have a s13 and s16 license. There are a couple more categories,but thats the two most use. FA ppl like you and me use s16. S13 for a self defence pistol(5 year license) only allowed 200 rounds on you/ stored at home in a safe. S16 sport shooting license(10 year license) you can license as many as you want ,each gun has its own license and time attached(10years) renew after its 10years,as long as you can motivate why you need it. You can own unlimited ammo with this license,ammo is only allowed what the rifle uses. Cant buy ammo for a FA you dont have a license for. Also you are Only allowed 2.4kg of powder that is safely stored. Everyrhing must be stored in a safe. Our laws are somewhat similar.

[@marcbjorg4823]

Still, Switzerland has very strict self defense laws. However, tiny Liechtenstein has very different laws, allowing more cases of self defense.

[@beyondEV]

That good like that. Overzealous Self Defense, which would get acquitted by courts if the laws were more lax, would turn public opinion against gun ownership. Which in a direct democracy would lead to more restrictions. (There is also very little crime, especially violent crime.)

[@muttomaki1]

Bloke, great videos as usual ! What we Yanks need from our dear Cousin Jack is for you to sweet talk the GP11 makers into sending GP11 by the boat load to the U.S. 😀

[@huntersmillie00]

After the U.S. Supreme Court "Bruen" decision, we here in California no longer need "just cause" for applying concealed carry permits. Although the wait times, application fee, psych test, references, etc. are required and takes anywhere from 6 months to a year to get it.

[@knickebien1966]

A "Swiss Fudd" sound like a chocolate confection.

[@Foche_T._Schitt]

Oi mate! Ya got a loicense fer dat Gee Pee Elevon?

[@TUCOtheratt]

I know your laws in Switzerland are more gun friendly than the rest of Europe and much of the world but I still have to offer my condolences. I hope it never gets like that here in Montana USA. Here, as long as I don't have criminal record I can buy any firearm that is not fully automatic. If I buy it at a commercial gun store I fill out paperwork that stays in the store, take home right then, no wait period. No license required/no limit. I can buy a firearm from a private seller within my state with no paperwork or government notification what so ever. I can buy and store ammo and firearms however I wish at home or in vehicle. I can carry my firearm openly or concealed with no license in my state. If an unauthorized person gets a hold of my guns and or ammo without stealing it and commits a crime that IS my problem. But I'm not required to keep anything locked up.

[@Steven-jz1bl]

You are very lucky... fight to respect your laws! In France it was cool and your ar15 sold at the supermarket on presentation of an identity without more before 1995! no declaration nothing...even automatic equipment! then slowly one restriction after another today without a permit, without a license, there are many things prohibited outside the collections of before 1900 and without having the ammunition...

[@TUCOtheratt]

@@Steven-jz1bl I never knew that France was that free as recently as before 1995.

[@Steven-jz1bl]

@@TUCOtheratt For long guns if... the handguns it was different since 1956 apart from single shots in 22lr until 1995

[@daskrokodil4584]

Czechia has more liberal gun laws than Switzerland including constitutional carry. And then there is Wyoming ;-)

[@comraden8396]

Fudds a worldwide epidemic

[@pripjatyfighter3786]

How many round was in the taschenmunition can?

[@peteraugust5295]

Im Sorry, but could you kindly shorten the stock of your CZ Trail by 3 cm? Or buy a shorter silencer?`There was a chance for perfect symetry wasted in this image composition and we cannot have that!

[@Chlorate299]

Let me guess, Frankenrifle in the background was loaded...just to make a point 😂

[@DanMulberry]

If Swiss gun ownership is so common, why is the WEF still in davos?

[@yonathan1230]

because the rich here do divide and conquer as they do everywhere

[@EarlHildebrandt]

Because no municipality will turn down that kind of reliable outside cash infusion, principles or not.

[@DanMulberry]

@@EarlHildebrandt Huh? Maybe you missed the point of the question.

[@beyondEV]

Maybe something to do with responsible gun ownership? And people not seeing guns as a means to make politics here in switzerland?

[@DanMulberry]

@@beyondEV You're an obedient slave, congrats!

[@philipvecchio3292]

Don't tell Johnny Harris 😂

[@KathrynLiz1]

I do get the restrictions on government ammo. If it was allowed to be taken off-range people would inevitably start a market for it, and that would not be good for genuine retailers.

[@emersonmsd]

No Mail Order in Slovakia but I can have 10.000 rds at home in a locked cabinet.

[@firefox7658]

In the end you said that you don't have to store firearms unloaded. From what I've heard, fully automatic firearms need their bolt removed when in storage. Is it true?

[@doejohn8674]

Full auto weapons: the bolt has to be stored separately and locked up, most cantons impose a few rules on the weight of the safe or that it has to be fixed to the wall for example.

[@firefox7658]

@@doejohn8674 Which cantons in particular?

[@doejohn8674]

@@firefox7658 Vaud imposes a min. weight or fixing the safe to the floor/wall to store bolts of a full auto firearm

[@radis_noi_r]

I'm living in switzerland for 5 years now and never heard about this fuddlore.

[@doejohn8674]

It's mostly on social media by people who are not living in Switzerland

[@maximilianmustermann5763]

@@doejohn8674 It's Americans who were raised under the impression they were truly special in the world with their 2A, and they can't accept the fact that other people in other countries have guns and ammo, too. 😂

[@raman5329]

@@maximilianmustermann5763 Yep, but they actually can shoot their guns everywhere, not just own them and scare the 300m fudds with the idea of a scope....

[@Nontactical1014]

So basically you can't have the government's ammo in your home understandable.

[@BlueCollarDude101]

I have a work friend from Switzerland, they are WAY more free then Americans. They can literally buy brand new full auto weapons with a permit. Meanwhile here in the land of Tyranny, we're stuck with extremely overpriced pre1985 machine guns that can only be purchased by rich privileged people.

[@robgrey6183]

Yeah, maybe there's a lot more to it then that.

[@beyondEV]

Trouble is, US laws are for the manufacturers and the NRA is their lobby, not a consumer lobby. Same time, with shootings you have push back. Then you end up with responsible gun ownership restricted, while still having loads of loopholes to sell to criminals. 2nd amendment also is a hindrance to responsible gun ownership, as it's often abused. Switzerland has basically killed their weapons manufactory sector, especially with the extremely stringent export laws. With direct democracy, and gun owners are a minority, they and the clubs are very conscious about being responsible about gun ownership, as they are perfectly aware, that the people can abolish gun ownership any time they feel like it becomes a public threat. In Switzerland you have to convince the people, not just bribe a politician.

[@sierraecho884]

Switzerland has to keep it´s Ammo and gun laws really. It´s genius.

[@michaelwhite9199]

I wonder if the speed of modern communications played a part in the Swiss Federal Government’s decision to withdraw the ready ammunition from its reserves. I sort of wish the US had a system of formal post-service firearms practice matches. I never fired on a nice know distance range after leaving the Marines.

[@beathunziker171]

No, a soldier shoot a girl at a bus stop with his army rifle and army ammo. So, they withdraw the army ammo.

[@beyondEV]

@@beathunziker171 That and the end of the cold war. Switzerland assumes we would see the signs and have about 5 years to get into shape, before someone can beat NATO and invade us. Kind of makes ready ammo unnecessary and as shown in the case above, you can always have the military miss someone which should not serve with a firearm.

[@andersalbertsson215]

Is there a limit on privately owned quantities of ammo?

[@davedavids57]

No, although some places limit the amount of ammo being stored in one place due to fire regulations (for example large cities). But that would be 10,000s of rounds and then you would just have to talk to the city about fire safety (they won't want tones of black powder or ammo stored in apartment blocks).

[@cheesebuger13]

Do you guys need to run a background check whenever you buy ammo? I have to every time I do in NY(I know it's the least firearm friendly part of the US).

[@_f355]

I live in Sweden, so can't speak for Switzerland, but here (and in majority of Europe) you need a firearms license to buy ammo, and of course there's a background check in the process of getting one. after that, you can just buy ammo, as much as you want, but if you do ANYTHING nasty - a bar fight, DUI, or simply get too many speeding tickets - the police would come and take your license, your ammo and your guns.

[@BlokeontheRange]

The answer is in the video.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

And that's a relatively new law in NY?

[@Steven-jz1bl]

@@_f355 En France aussi c'est assez similaire sauf pour quelques calibres militaires ou il y a des quotas...mais sans permis de chasse valide ou licence sportive impossible d'acheter des munitions légalement.

[@DaibhidhBhoAlba]

This is a core difference between the USA and every other weather country. Outwith the USA, we need a background check to get a firearms licence. Once you have the licence, there are no further checks. The licence normally lasts for 5 years, but it can vary between countries. In the USA, because you don't really have any licences for buying or keeping firearms, some states require you to have a background check whenever you buy new guns or ammo. But those checks are nowhere near as thorough as the checks other countries do before issuing firearms licences.

[@DavidNefelimSlayer]

It's all about the children. As you where. The state's children.

[@zedhiro6131]

Not criticizing, is there a limit on how much ammunition can be had? It doesn't make sense that you can't have a minimum of state ammunition to go with the gun. If an emergency happens, you have an expensive club until you get supply.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Most cantons: no. Zürich limits to 350kg under fire regulations, I believe.

[@chrisr251]

(laughs in Californian, while patting loaded CCW pistols) Not anymore...

[@KRN762]

I gotta ask. How did you end up in Switzerland? Was it a gun related decision, or did you just dig the scenery and wristwatches? LOL

[@BlokeontheRange]

yes, and more...

[@juhokuusisto9339]

It was the Toblerone.

[@baneofbanes]

Nah he’s just a very big fan of watches and pocket knives.

[@EarlHildebrandt]

​@@BlokeontheRangeSo the old "business, then pleasure" border crossing joke.

[@SafetyProMalta]

Fudds be Fudds...😂

[@svenjonsson9]

A great explanation of how the devil is in the details, and how only a generalized understanding can create wrong information.

[@thorodin2367]

It's kinda sad that it takes an Englishman living in Switzerland to educate the Swiss audience and disprove the arguments of the US 2nd amendment crowd on such a topic. On the other and I don't think either of those crowds will have learned anything by a video that lasts longer than 2 min... Anyway: thanks for properly explaining it! If a single person learned something it's a win! Dankä!

[@BlokeontheRange]

That's why I got the important bit into the first 2 minutes [tapping head meme] :D

[@beathunziker171]

Bull, all people here in Switzerland which are into guns know of this law. It just people not into guns or non swiss which are unfamiliar with the current law.

[@thorodin2367]

@@beathunziker171 Abgseh vo de wenige imene Schützeverein (u o dert nid aui) wüsse das di meischte wo dür s'Militär e Waffe übercho händ nid (u de Bloke redt vo de Missverständniss wo vo dene usgoht).

[@H.Green83]

Can you have federal hst or gold dot hollow points? Or are they considered too effective?

[@BlokeontheRange]

i am pretty sure they're on the naughty list.

[@davedavids57]

@@BlokeontheRange Does the work around of the The Expansion Mono-Block (EMB) 9mm or Gecco Action Extreme 9mm exist in Switzerland? Fiocchi, Gecco and a few other companies make them and they expand like hollow points but they are copper and machined to expand so they aren't strictly hollow points. They are widely sold here in Austria but we do have a lot loser home defence laws that you guys over the mountain.

[@mrfunswitch]

hollow points are forbidden regarding pistol calibers but black hills honeybadger for example is legal.

[@H.Green83]

@@mrfunswitch crazy I have some of the honey badgers and they’re re nasty little rounds lol have them staggered in my edc with hst’s

[@fabpoltronieri]

Exactly.

[@tatalan750]

Fear...

[@vega2270]

Its easy to get ammo

[@skeets6060]

Why would I want to keep my ammo in switerland ?

[@mrfunswitch]

what you want is none of other peoples business.

[@daskrokodil4584]

For military calibres: price. For other calibres: only option.

[@Georgewilliamherbert]

California isn’t nearly as restrictive now. We need a new poster boy…

[@doejohn8674]

Hawaii maybe? With its 'Spirit of Aloha' cancelling the 2A?

[@DanMulberry]

10 round mag restrictions and AR fins say otherwise

[@omirlino]

IL to NY?

[@Georgewilliamherbert]

@@DanMulberry Those aren’t concealed carry restrictions. And pre ban and Freedom Week magazines…

[@MegaBait1616]

You can send me all your GP-11 you want in NC, USA ..

[@ZippydsmLee-freetube]

Are they trying to control the costs of some current service ammo by keeping it out of the public, or is it just board rule makers looking to make rules? Feels like if it was ubiquitous and traded like anything else, there's no odd price adjusts that could crop up. Only thing I can think of is government protecting their buddies in the ammo manufacturing, guarantying military contracts or some other back room deal BS. Not seeing any practically in fussing about ammo, I mean by making it more scarce it becomes more desirable, by treating it as another consumable, the market would be mostly flooded with the stuff, offering more backups in the market when "war were declared". It won't change how the military manages and purchases its ammo. I hate to say it, but it sounds like they are trying to stop soldiers from stealing military ammo, but that's easily dealt with, in the military logging and tracking usages of ammo.... so I do not understand the bureaucracy here....but I guess...thats the point of bureaucracy ...

[@BlokeontheRange]

The aim is that the ammo coming through the system, which is sold at a loss for use in the system, stays in the system and doesn't get diverted for other uses.

[@Al1DesAlpes]

What in the Bubba is the gun on the left?

[@BlokeontheRange]

CZ600 Trail with a B&T can on it (and a custom steampunk cover :D )

[@Stargazer80able]

Swiss laws, for the Swiss. Danish laws for the Danes. No law in Europe is the same for all. Eu want to ban all lead bullets, remove all thermals in private hands, and have no option for competitive shooters. Eu only want environment and wind and green! Forgetting that nort of Europe is a desert for 5 months of the year.

[@hummel6364]

Bro... if those people are stupid enough to believe this, why bother trying to explain it to them?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Cos we can at least try to increase the total sum of correct information in the world :)

[@Aaron-fh6hd]

Was wondering why the thumbnail looked like shiet. Realized its AI.

[@Stand_watie]

Weird obsession with the Swiss reservists i like their form of government tho second best to the states rights in the Kentucky Virginia resolutions

[@erik_dk842]

And direct democracy.

[@JohnTBlock]

Sorry, Mike, but can you speak American for me? What ammo is "restricted " as in not allowed for private ownership? The mild steel core Russian stuff, like 7.62x39, is more for cheapness to produce, not armor piercing ability...is that banned, like AP ammo? And I've seen you use standard magazines, so what makes a "restricted" high-capasity feed system? I are confuzzeled... I understand the laws have changed, but a Militia member used to keep his service weapon and a basic load of ammo at home, even if he was a machine gunner, yes or no? In the U.S. that would be an M-4 and 7 loaded mags, a "basic load" for infantry, or a belt-fed M-249 & 200 rounds linked ammo. Or was there a restriction to the standard rifle, until you got to the muster point/depot where your unit would draw it's heavy ordinance, during a call up? Another bit I used to hear, was male Militia members, in at least some cantons, were required to wear their side-arms when going to vote, symbolic of being Free men. Any truth there, or more myth? Sorry for being long-winded, just looking for the facts. Thanks, enjoy your work.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Prohibited ammunition is exactly as stated in the video. For the hard core ammo there's no reference to armour penetrating. The law simply says "hard core". A detachable magazine for semiautomatic long arm holding more than 10 rounds or for a pistol holding 20 rounds is prohibited but easily available. The soldiers typically keep their service weapon at home: this is either a Stgw.90 or a pistol. Other weapons are not personal issue, they're unit issue. As stated in the video, they used to get the spam can of Taschenmunition. That's it. Some Cantons did indeed require people to carry a sword back in the day to vote at the Landesgemeinde.

[@maximilianmustermann5763]

As far as I know, in C.I.P. countries, so-called military ammunition can be banned from civil sales when it's not officially C.I.P. spec. So for example 9x19 NATO ammunition can't be sold to civilians in Germany because it's not "9mm Luger C.I.P.". Although it's virtually the same, but bureaucratically it's not. But I guess in Switzerland it's not that you aren't allowed to buy military ammo, it's just that nobody sells it (except re-imports).

[@JohnTBlock]

@BlokeontheRange much thanks for the response, sir. How many rounds in those cans, was it one can per troopie?

[@ursusfloeckli9065]

​​​​@@JohnTBlock for the Sturmgewehr 57 it was 24 rounds GP11 (7.5x55) which was one full magazine load, for the Stgw 90 I think it was 20 rounds, equal to one standard magazine's load. One can per soldier.

[@BlokeontheRange]

One can. it varied over time, there's loads of examples on www.swisswaffen.com

[@g6otu]

2:03 Sweden?

[@BlokeontheRange]

ThAtS ThE JoKe

[@g6otu]

@BlokeontheRange merican geography 😉

[@g6otu]

'THV' is that French?

[@BlokeontheRange]

yes. Très haute vitesse

[@DaIssimo]

@@BlokeontheRange I remember the THV reverse ogive ammo of the 1990s.

[@TheOz91]

So, to summarize, yes, you can have ammunition if you can legally have and acquire a gun. And the thing about you can't have ammo at home is that you can't have government/army issue ammo at home after they don't allow pocket ammo anymore. I actually have personal experience with this fuddlore when somebody was trying to argue about US gun laws. I did not know much about Swiss gun laws so I regret not be able to rebut that (this was around the 2012, 2013 timeframe, so more than 5 years since the spam can ammo was abolished). I would also admit I was surprised encountering this channel years ago and you guys show off ammo at home. I had suspected the whole "ammo at home" thing was bollocks but I did have some belief that it was true and this channel debunked it. So, basically, you guys can't have anything M855 (and certainly not A1), any super hollowpoint handgun ammo, and ammo that only exist in films. As for the storage stuff, it makes sense but do they require you to have a proper safe or anything that is under lock and key (or combo lock, or fingerprint lock because sometimes you need a gun quickly)? I would say that it does make sense to abolish the spam can ammo because such cans would definitely be sealed forever. Yes, ammo can last a long time and shooters have been firing World War 2 surplus stuff even now. However, propellent is still made from volatiles so it can still degrade-the very reason militaries release their ammo stocks to surplus so that they can be fired and they can replace them with fresher batches of ammo. And I speculate that the Swiss Army brass that instead of cycling these spam cans, they just make everybody keep them at the depot and at the ranges so that they would eventually be used while they are in spec.

[@BlokeontheRange]

No, there's no specific requirements regarding ammo storage. Just the general one.

[@TheOz91]

@BlokeontheRange Okay, so technically I can just put it in a cupboard with a padlock or a locked chest under my bed since that complies with the law.

[@doejohn8674]

No need for a padlock if no kids around, same for loaded home defense firearms

[@BlokeontheRange]

Doesn't even need to be locked if there's no kids (or other unauthorised persons) in the household.

[@TheOz91]

@BlokeontheRange May I ask what "unauthorised persons" mean other than children (which I assume is anybody under 18)? Does sound like I can have a keep a fully loaded AR with a full 30 round magazines on the night stand and hug an ammo can at night full of M193 while also have a fully loaded SG 550 in the bed with me (chamber empty, just in case) and a loaded Glock under my table in Switzerland if I am legally allowed to own firearms and nobody in my abode is unauthorised.

[@robgrey6183]

Here in Wyoming, my State has no interest or involvement in the sale or transfer of any of this. I have bought and sold g*U**nz and a**M*o face to face, for cash, on the street here. I order bulk a**M*o, and components to manufacture my own. There is no Government record of most of the pew pews I own. This video is full of "can't this, can't that", and the minutiae of regulations. I find it oppressive: "See how free I am. Here are all the regulations that govern my freedom".

[@DavidNefelimSlayer]

@robgrey6183 Freedom as a reality only exist between your ears and everyone, especially the government, resents it and wants to deny it.

[@mrfunswitch]

since we have no violent crime on our streets (we are on place 6 of the safest countries on earth according to the times), semi-auto firearms are shall issue, we got the best health care system in the world, affordable education for our population, affordable and healthy food, high wages, lower taxes than the US (in most cantons) and machine guns cost the same as semi-auto firearms, I prefer our way of life. I mean those ppl in the US who are lucky enough to live far away from the cities and own a huge chunk of land are the only ones living the american dream, as long as they can afford it but most people in the US even struggle to afford a PSA AR15, even tho they work 3 jobs and they also still can't afford healthy groceries. a transferable M16 lower in the US currently costs like 50K and only very few US citizens can ever afford this, if they even live in a state, in which they can own transferables at all. also that you go to prison for 10 years + a 250K$ fine for putting a stock on an AR pistol without paying the ATF 200$ in advance plus waiting a year for the tax stamp is crazy and not what I consider freedom.

[@DanMulberry]

@@mrfunswitch You literally can't even question the holocaust without going to jail and your birth rate is below replacement level. "migrants" are outnumbering you and murdering your people all across Europe. Doesn't sound very good to me.