HVAC 113 Disposable refrigerant tanks

[@inothing7370]

Ty I'm just heading into HVAC at 40... Thank you. You are a great help.

[@love2hvac]

Welcome to the cool kids group! It's been an awesome career for me and I'm sure it will for you also. Never stop learning. If you need help just reach out!

[@inothing7370]

@@love2hvac o I have questions! i want to build a career map. If you know someone that could help, I would appreciate it. I have been thinking BAS or balancing. The money seems good and wife is commercial property manager, says people are always hiring... Starting over

[@love2hvac]

Balancing "TAB" Test And Ballance has a pretty specific path of it's own. Find local TAB companies and keep at them for a chance to get started. They have their own apprentiship path tests and certifications. You start of carrying equipment and then more you apply and lean the more opportunity you are offered. BAS, I'm not sure the best way to start. Most people I know transfered from commercial companies or. BAS is so big it has multiple career paths in itself.

[@davejohnsonnola7908]

Came back to hvac at age 55. Got an AAS degree early '90s from a crappy program and remained a bartender for way too long. Go for it!

[@inothing7370]

@@love2hvac I'm looking at both of these fields due the fact they are both niche and command decent salaries if stayed in long term. However, would love to know your thoughts regarding if either feild, 5 to 8 years in, would be an asset in hospital facilities work. I am considering an Ashrae's HFDP Certification along side significant experience in useful commercial feild as a plan forward. An associate make 6 figures working HVAC facilities. Night shift. Great benefits.

[@rc5869]

Ty 58 here love your videos! Not looking for a new career of course but love being as self-sufficient as possible. Thanks so much for your fantastic instruction. Wish you were still in Vegas!

[@ReliableHVACR]

So the check valve ball is what I've heard rattling around in my tanks recently 😂 great info, love the videos 👏🏽

[@love2hvac]

Yep!!! Keep that one!

[@emptech]

Have you ever wondered how they fill the tank at the factory, if it has a check valve? Remember the old tanks with the black knob? They didn't have a check valve, the current green valves do. What I found is that once you close the factory valve on the tank, it actually forces the ball of the check valve into place, preventing re-filling the tank. If there is the tiniest bit of pressure in the tank, the valve is opened, the check valve is unseated and the contents allowed to escape. If another valve is attached to the tank, say a ball valve, once some contents is allowed to escape, the check valve is opened. To stop the flow, the external ball valve is then closed. As long as the original green valve is not closed, pressure from the outside, air, refrigerant, or what have you can enter the tank when the added ball valve is opened. Once the ball valve is removed and the green knob turned, the check valve is actuated. I often wondered how the factory filled the tanks, I thought they had a special fitting that would reach down into the tank and unseat the check valve, not the case at all, simple isn't it? I'm not at all suggesting that people re-use the tanks, as stated from the video, per DOT it is illegal to transport re-used tanks, it doesn't say it's illegal to re-use a tank, but keep in mind, the thin steel is not plated nor has any resistance to corrosion. I have found that the empty 410a tanks weigh more than empty R22 tanks, yes, the metal is thicker. Jim

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

Also, setting these tanks on the ground for months, especially in wet environments, they rust through from the outside and the contents will leak.

[@MarcusHamilton-vk1tt]

Thank you for everything

[@castawaysmc]

I loved the part about running out of colors to make the tanks. Can you imagine the millions of color choices

[@robertling9872]

Ty, thank you 👍

[@danielg.9578]

Wish all tanks were stamped with their empty weight too, that way you know your getting the full net wt that you are supposed to be...

[@love2hvac]

I agree!!!

[@elwoodstelhommme8745]

It took me about a minute to understand your joke at the end. "Tank-u for watching" funny

[@proxybox]

Q from newbie. When do you know tank is empty? I had a new tank on scale that only put out 2 lbs to a vacuumed lineset before it stalled. I can still feel liquid in the can but it doesn't appear there is enough pressure to empty.

[@love2hvac]

If you charge as a vapor the temperature and pressure of the tank drop and it will stall. If you charge liquid in the liquid line you will get much more into the system before it stalls but eventually it will happen. Use a tank heater or warm water to heat the tank up to continue to charge. (Never a torch) Q How to know if the tank is empty? A use a scale. Weigh the tank when it's brand new and record it in the tank. Subtract the Net contents (25lbs for 410A) what is left is the empty tank weight.

[@proxybox]

@@love2hvac Thanks for the response Ty. I did have the can upside down on a digital scale and charged with liquid. Also this was in an attic that was 90 F so its odd it happened on a new tank. Just saw your video on heat blankets and hot water buckets! Thanks I'll give it a shot.

[@AXNJXN1]

Ty, I have come across numerous identical refrigerant tanks like these. Are these completely 100% safe to cut open with an angle grinder once they are emptied and valves are opened? Any precautions one should be aware of before cutting open?

[@love2hvac]

Yes just to clarify Recover the refregerant and pull. The tank into a vacuum. Pop the top plug to allow atmospheric pressure back in. Use proper PPE, gloves, ear protection, safety glasses and face shield, apron, fire resistant clothing, fire extinguisher nearby, remove all trip hazards, 3 prong plug, inspect the extension cord, read the user manual of the cut off tool and read the warnings of the cut off wheel, don't put the wheel in a bind, go slow, have a safety person on watch, adult supervision only ,follow all OSHA guidelines, stay 6' from others, wear a mask, get vaccinated use steel toe boots, hard hat, reflective gear, rope the area off, remove flammable material in a 20' radius, Mark the area off with caution tape, stay hydrated, take don't take any medicines that cause drowsiness before hand and any thing else that might be safe and left out. Attempt at your own risk, could where prohibited, fallow all federal, state, local laws. ,

[@AXNJXN1]

@@love2hvac Thanks Ty. I appreciate you pulling all that information from OSHA’s site, I was referring to the chemical compounds IN Freon. Meaning, and logistically, it’s inert technically? So once you get the top off by an angle grinder,, there’s no combustion factor..? My point/question was angled more towards the residual freon (that may be present) isn’t a danger factor for cutting it open. Correct? If you can speak to that?

[@love2hvac]

@@AXNJXN1 I just have to cover my bases when someone asks if something is safe. Once you pull it into a vacuum there is hardly any thing left. It is a gas so when the top is poped open air rushes in and delutes what is left. There is no oil reside inside on the metal. 200 different refregerants. Most are non flammable. To know for sure the tank will have a toxicity and flammability rating A1 non toxic and non flammable. If it has any other rating, it's not a good idea.

[@AXNJXN1]

@@love2hvac Thank you Sir.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

Over the decades I go into so many old automotive shops who have the old R 12 tanks that they use has portable air cylinders that they refill from their air compressor in the shop because they did not have a one-way check valve and still to this day 30 or 40 years later using the same old tank as a refillable tanks

[@love2hvac]

Those old ones pre check where built pretty good. A friend welds a port in place if the rupture disk of the 410a tanks and drops dom paint inside and rolls it around to coat it. My father uses PVC for for his compressed air lines. That makes me nervous.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

@@love2hvac Yes PVC has been okayed for airlines in certain cities and states. For safety reasons some local cities say you have to use metal line up to 7 feet off the floor and then PVC higher than that I’m sure it will not be dangerous Force from that distance. I was going to use R410 tank for a portable air tank because it’s so over built can go shop air compressor is only go up to 120 psi to 175 Psi Way below the tank reading of rupturing. In my younger years I overheated a brand new tank of R134 and it blew off the ruptured desk not to spectacular no big deal A loud hissing venting sound So that did satisfy my curiosity what happens when you over heat a brand new sealed tank of refrigerant But now I carry a Milwaukee portable air compressor battery powered works great continuous air on a 12 amp battery

[@davidmorrone8783]

No, Tank U Mr Ty.

[@a11ten071]

Great Job TNX you sir👍

[@don50112]

Will the tank leak out without the cap on the valve? I didn't see that in your video for proper storage.

[@love2hvac]

It's possible, I like to use the brass caps with the o ring

[@TheWorld-of7dd]

How thick are those empty tanks ,about 2 mm or more?

[@love2hvac]

I don't know the answer to that. I do know the 22 drums are much thinner than the 410a ones

[@TheWorld-of7dd]

@@love2hvac Coz I was planning to buy them here,and need to do some stick welding on it

[@love2hvac]

@@TheWorld-of7dd 1.5mm think

[@TheWorld-of7dd]

@@love2hvac Thanks for the tip, I will check that out

[@TheGibby3340]

Interesting details. Thx 👍

[@wendyolidar5632]

didnt know conor mcgreggor does refrigeration until ive seen this

[@danielauen7790]

In theory, How much air pressure can I shove into the pink one before it explodes?

[@love2hvac]

DOT 39 (DAC) cylinders which are used for CFCs, HCFCs, and most HFCs are manufactured to handle the highest-pressure refrigerant, CFC-502; however, they cannot be used for R-410A. DOT 39 (400) cylinders are designed to handle R-410A.. The DOT requires that disposable cylinders for R-410A be rated for a service pressure of 400 psig. Cylinders rated for R-410A must be rated for a service pressure of 400 psig. The R-410A cylinders are leak tested at 500 psig. Also, per DOT Specification 39, one cylinder per thousand is pressurized to the point of failure and this cylinder must not rupture below 1000 psig for the R-410A cylinders. These tests are intended to assure that users receive safe, high-pressure and leak-free containers. A comparison of the disposable cylinder design details for R-410A cylinders and R-22 cylinders is presented www . EPA test. Com

[@KUSHWAHAREFRIGERATION]

Nice👍👍

[@ejonesss]

1. i am not sure if the local police officer that pulls you over for a burned out headlight or speeding will have the means to test the refrigerant to determine if refilled. 2. even if the sight of external valves on the tank such as those with a valve core means nothing as an indicator of refilling because technicians can use the external valve so they can access the product easier. the best way to be able to refill the tanks safely so you dont get caught is to run them back to the shop while obeying all traffic laws so the police has no reason to pull you over.

[@love2hvac]

1The check valve is internal so it's not really possible to bypass it. 2 soon they will not make single use disposable tanks anymore. (AIM) Act of 2020 will ban disposable, single-use cylinder tanks used to transport refrigerants by Imports and placement of HFCs into new disposable cylinders must end by January 1, 2025, and an outright ban on the sale of disposable cylinders will happen on January 1, 2027, according to rules passed by the EPA.

[@ejonesss]

@@love2hvac valves that are based on balls or pistons could be defeated by shoving a piece of thick wire under the stopper and then placing an external valve onto the tank. not so obvious sign of tampering because they make external valves for ease of connection and access. tanks with a reed valve in the base of the valve assembly can be defeated by. 1. using dremel to cut off the rolled part of the tank near the valve handle. then remove the valve core. 2. putting a long wood screw into the hole where the valve core was and feeling for the reed get under the reed and drie the screw into the hole into the tank. that will bend the reed out of the way then put the valve core back in. that is more obvious by the roadside because the officer could see the tank and go "why is there this little ring cut off the top of the tank" if there is going to be a ban on single use containers how is the refrigerant going to be sold? are they going to serve it in reusable recovery tanks or will they start requiring a security deposit to have you return the empty tanks for recycling? there is nothing wrong with single use packaging there is everything wrong with the material the containers are made of. the reason that the water bottle is a problem is it is plastic witch is not easily recyclable and does not get recycled. the reason that the soda can is very good is because aluminum can be melted down and maybe the chemistry tweaked to compensate for any loses and made into new product. so the steel of the dot 39 tanks could be the metal frame of your future air conditioner or the steel coil support and retention plates that are at the end of the coils in air conditioner in the future.

[@MinnesotaHvAc]

Grey tanks equals 3x compressor replacement this year.

[@Soapfactori]

can i use them as gas tank for my go karts?

[@love2hvac]

Official answer no! Unofficial answer, heck yes!

[@andrewsimon5437]

I made a propane fired forge out of an old refrigerant tank

[@myshadowkungfu]

Not equal amounts when liquid. Just acting as one. When evaporation happens the 3 different compounds evaporate at different temps.

[@love2hvac]

In liquid it will be in the correct % and mixture quantities. I should not have used equal. =In vapor it will not be the correct%=or mixture quantities. I believe the concept is thoroughly covered in the following videos 114 and 115. Let me know what you think.

[@cornpop7805]

Confusing about what's illegal and what's safety warning. The heavier tanks seem like they'd make good air tanks. Perhaps the manufacturer just doesn't want to be sued by someone who is injured from misuse... It seems like the legal issues would end once the tank is taken to zero or negative gauge. What say ye, oh wise and all knowing internet?

[@love2hvac]

Illegal and unsafe. The tank is made of thin raw steel. Air has moisture in it and when you compress air the moisture condenses into the tank. Air tanks use a coating whether galvanized, paint or a plastic coating. These thin uncoated raw metal tanks will rust very quickly and rupture. They use to sell conversion kits for these tanks but people got hurt. So they passed DOT laws against refilling them. They also added check valves in the tank that prevent anything from being out back into them.

[@realestateservicessaleshea99]

🤣😅 Only a HVAC GUY makes decorations out of old refrigerant cans!😅 🥃🥃🍺🍺🍺🍿🎯 Stay safe. Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!

[@nunyabusiness6746]

RETIRED ? Refer tech since 1975, there’s no such thing as retired, somebody always seems to get your phone number !

[@realestateservicessaleshea99]

@@nunyabusiness6746 👍🏻