Diagnosing A Trane Variable Speed Blower Motor!

[@markcotter2355]

That helicopter was so close you don’t need to shave. Good job Curtis 😂 take it easy on that back.

[@JesseDoesHVAC]

I love the intrigued customer. Dont mind me them “helicopters” coz i feel like they are getting their moneys worth when you can give them a little education in hvac systems diagnostics Kudos to you Curtis for not getting shitty at him breathing down your neck 🤘

[@bobboscarato1313]

Curtis is protecting his customer base and his bread and butter! Smart man!

[@paulfultz3031]

I’m a trane dealer. I agree on the parts cost vs a new system or at least an air handler. We used to be able to buy just the module for those motors but not anymore. They want to sell the whole assembly. We usually put in a psc motor, capacitor and relay in older units that are out of warranty but we offer the new motor as well. Usually the homeowner opts for the less expensive repair. Hope your back feels better soon.

[@douro20]

I don't think you can even do that with an S8 or S9 system with how tightly integrated they are. I don't think you can even put a standard thermostat on them.

[@paulfultz3031]

@@douro20 you can still put a regular thermostat on the s8 and s9 furnaces but its tough to use a psc motor on them.

[@jthonn]

I can't see why you can't just use a rescue motor and wire it up, even though it won't be variable speed anymore, and who really cares about that? It's as stupid as putting dual zone ac in a car. We just want the ac to work when we turn it on, keep all the bells and whistles.

[@MannyFontes1968]

Don't you just love the hovering customers??? lol I know that you are a very patient person...

[@michaelcinaz]

I love the variable speed blower motors. I’ve got a Dave Lennox signature collection two-stage variable speed gas furnace that’s 13 years old. The only thing I had to replace so far is the igniter, and I did that a little early. I love the way they ramp up and ramp down, and you can select 12 different speeds for cooling and 12 different speeds for heating. It is so quiet you never even know it’s on.

[@bobboscarato1313]

@Kernica1 I'm sure they do! Heavily promoted!

[@jhatfield2755]

Good till they go bad

[@danastinson3271]

I felt like he was over my shoulder!

[@miguelmier89]

You are a true repairman! Thanks for the upload Curtis.

[@billderby1527]

These generally have a 10 year warranty. Now one needs to consider due to the cost of motor replacement vs air handler replacement if old motor out of warranty the better decision is to just replace the air handler, As an example, in this case in 2 years this fine gentleman's motor goes out again it'll be out of parts and labor warranty.

[@vornelas82]

I just ordered my veto tool bag from trutech. I used your discount code. I just want to say thanks for all the videos you make. I have learned a lot from them. I'm new to the HVAC industry.

[@bobgallo3775]

Good luck, young man. I retired last year after 37 yrs. Wish I used knee pads when I started in the field.

[@VeryPersian]

I still put relays in and a psc. Energy savings with ecm is only on low speed.

[@stevenmcfadden2235]

We all have had them, but sometimes there needs to be a "tax" for homeowners that ask alot of questions !lol

[@subcoolHVAC]

I convert those over to X13 motors once out of warranty and giving the customer the option . They seem to work well in most applications. I also agree about the business model and parts pricing

[@marvinsellers4457]

I’m with you on that my man

[@zebulon2.198]

We had 3 Trane units installed when we built our house 14 years ago. After12 years one of the A coils leaked and our dealer told us about the price of replacing it. We just about flipped. We opted for getting a whole new unit from another brand. It was just a few dollars more than replacing the Trane A coil. The dealer had bought a lot of the other brand units right before the latest price increase. I told him we'd keep the old unit for parts since it is identical to one of the other Trane units we had. Which he was fine with since they didn't have to haul the old one off. So I now have a spare Trane 'everything but the A coil' . I am licensed to work on ACs but TBH most of my experience was on huge chiller systems. 4 of them were 4000lb freon chillers. A bit different and much older than my ACs at home. Thanks for the video. It helped me diagnose my problem. Very clever. One of my Trane units had a Durozone ED4 panel and another thermostat to control my office above the garage. The ED4 board had gone bad keeping the inside fan from running. Even though I had spare parts it was comforting to be able to test my fan motor. Thanks again.

[@mikehouser5430]

Good advice for Brand choice

[@jenko701]

They always sell you on how much you save in energy bills , but the first time it breaks anything you saved on energy is lost many times over . You are better off with a basic machine that just works . The power bill is a little higher , but you are not always taking out a loan to stay cool .

[@georgemunford3804]

23 years experience I agree

[@jmead6121]

yes Sir ....35 + Years in & I Totally Agree PSC Over x 13 or true EMC Any day

[@destinylags6863]

Sounds like nexrev putting aftermarket vfd on rtu equipment. I've literally had to change 7 perfectly good motors from less than a year ago then went out, all with nexrev vfd on them aftermarket installed 4-6 months ago. Other units at same site don't have nexrev in them yet and the motors are completely perfect on those 1s. They must have the best salesman in the industry

[@Garth2011]

That is true with anything that the Government tries to sell the industry and public.

[@hvacmania8323]

Wow , you are so right 🎉

[@douro20]

There was a guy in Canada who fixed one of those Emerson ECM motors several years back. He spun the motor over and used a thermal camera (an old pyroelectric Vidicon camera) to look for shorts.

[@kg4muc]

I feel for you totally with the back problems I messed mine up 10 or so years ago and had surgery which might have halfway fixed the problem but degenerative disc disease and ole Arthur write us finished me off. Good days and bad and I’m due a bad streak

[@happybearinc.9083]

Hey Curtis, why don't you use the evergreen variable speed motors they are way less expensive than OEM and work great?

[@robalexander7348]

Interesting vid Curtis,, It's like that here in Australia, every thing is so expensive now, i often wonder how does a family with young children survive these days 🙄

[@bronzechicken4437]

I encountered a Goodman with that exact setup recently from 2004 and the motor was in fact more than a brand new air handler. Ended up converting it to a regular Goodman fan board/PSC rescue motor. They had set the board up to where bypassing the variable motor was virtually impossible.

[@kens.3729]

Make sure the Customer knows the Hourly Rate is Increased by $ 15.00 per hour if he holds an Extended Conversation with the Professional Repair Specialist. 😬👍🙏

[@gsmacka96]

What brand do you prefer or do sell that is friendly to repair costs?

[@waltdembeck4634]

I love HVACGUY !

[@Sctronic209]

Your right high priced all the way to the end.

[@549BR]

When quoting prices for Trane parts, hopefully you're well trained in CPR, as that customer almost had the big one. Holy Toledo; a thousand dollars for a fan motor. YIKES. 😎 You might try a lumbar support belt from the local medical supply; they're great.

[@jamesfitzsimmons381]

You’re are lucky you didn’t shocked pulling those plugs off with the power on. Hope your back feels better quickly

[@rolytech212]

That’s a Trane. It could be one Anti DIY HVAC installed 😎

[@ms7168]

I had a variable speed motor too and when it went south they showed me where it was going to be cheaper (and faster) to put in a new furnace

[@michaelzang9739]

Great information, thanks

[@williamgildea8348]

Have worked for a company that is a Trane dealer for 18 years. I have never found a bad motor on a variable speed unit. It was always the module. By the way the cabinet doors were on wrong. You should be able to remove the top with out removing the bottom.

[@Josh-px6xb]

They all mark up though. a Goodman ecm motor I had to replace was almost $800 and the whole furnace was like $1100 something

[@Bryr2112]

sometimes its just the inrush current limiter goes bad and u just replace that resistor and your back in business. its just a matter of checking if u have resistance going across it or not. if there is none replace the resistor with the matching one. also arent there kits that u can use a psc motor with a board that turns it into an ecm motor?

[@Bass.Player]

Install mini splits and if/when one goes down you still have a/c/heat. I have 4 separate units, I'm not going to sweat. Plus you can buy two 18K units for the price of that fan motor. I only cool the rooms I'm going to in for a while...

[@williamserver4332]

Great informative video. I learned a lot. Thanks

[@derick441]

More than likely that resistor on the module is toast. You can cut it out and bridge the wires together or replace the resistor considering it is out of warranty. Trane is a joke on there parts costs

[@saltwatergrasshoppa6656]

Curtis, you are so right about Trane . I know 1st hand how they Mark up those prices.

[@mikemorassi210]

Do you normally change out the ECM part and or the motor to save the customer money? or do you automatically just change both regardless?

[@HVACGUY]

Depends on what kind of ECM, and by what company it is made. On this one I asked for a module, but had to buy the motor. Sometimes on X-13’s a replacement motor costs as much as an OEM module.

[@yellowdeer7163]

When you said 1000 dollars my eyes almost popped out of there sockets. Wow!!! That's like the new rear light assembly on new vehicles, you can't replace a bulb so it cost 700 dollars to replace the whole thing, crazy.

[@DelticEngine]

Thanks for a helpful and informative video, Curtis. I'm sorry hear you're having such back problems and hope that you feel better very soon. I've ended up on the floor unconscious from back pain before today so I know how bad it can be and how hard it is to try and rest it if it needs time for injury to heal. Personally, it's usually lower back pain with me. I recently got myself some ankle/wrist weights to try and improve muscle tone. Anyway, I put the weights on my ankles and started on a walk. My back didn't feel so good but I decided try going on a bit more. Somehow, instead of getting worse it got easier. I don't know why this would be the case but somehow it helps my back. Maybe my experience could help you in some way? Best regards and good health to you, Curtis.

[@Austin23191]

Yep those motors are too beaucoup. Even as an American standard dealer we charge $1.6-1.8k for that motor.

[@HVACGUY]

Exactly

[@kens.3729]

Always felt TRANE Prices were Obscenely Ridiculous and would Never even Consider that Brand. Have received 20+ years x 2 of Quality Service from Carrier Brand. 👍

[@dustinbartlow4318]

also do you have any experience with Bosch systems? my system is old and I have been looking into Bosch.

[@jhatfield2755]

Diagnosed same exact thing best to change board and fan since there intertwined

[@harrydickson4575]

Awesome 👍👍👍

[@jasonstewart5942]

Yeah carrier wanted 35,000 for an old ass 15 ton r22 condenser. We had to ask 5 times for them to repeat that number because we were t sure we heard them right. It's ridiculous. Aside from that, in this video and situation I would have personally pushed to install a standard PSC motor, relay, and cap and called it a day. I just recently had to replace a brand new Trane PKG unit blower motor (ecm, icm) style because their junk and the plugs they're using to plug into them are junk. They don't seat into the socket right, I had one of the male spade terminals pull out on the replacement warranty motor. Absolutely horrible.

[@jasonstewart5942]

@@Kernica1 I really don't have any preference honestly. I just think the quality of everything these days is terrible yet they still want a premium price for it. But that's to be expected in the world we live in today.

[@destinylags6863]

When you checked for the call for cool. Did you just check voltage between yellow and red? Or yellow and common?

[@snidelywhiplash8923]

Good thing he was there to point out to you that you'd missed a screw.

[@Wayman_Simmang]

Hope your back feels better Curtis. See a good Chiropractor..

[@chuckquinn8026]

Is the price higher for you because you are not a Trane dealer/installer? I love my Trane system, and I’m aware of the parts prices…

[@dexenationgracey1979]

Basically. Generally, whenever you're not a dealer, you get the mark-up price so it's worth their time selling to you since the dealers typically get a discount.

[@AustinAirCo]

The equation is divided against itself. To be a Trane dealer means you are moving 100K in equipment per year or more. If you're repairing for a discount part you may not hit the sales goal of 100K and then lose the measly part discount and not be a dealer under their terms. You can't be both. It's a myth or elaborate shell game take your pick. The scheme is all about sales, not repairs of old equipment. Wait another 2 years until Puron equipment gets banned, then they'll be selling you new equipment for the new, new stuff. Then wait until 2035/ 2036 when the new, new stuff is banned again. It has to happen this way to hit the GWP targets set by the Kigali ammendment to the Montreal Protocol.

[@Empty7775]

Question: I looked through your tool list but I didn’t see the small wrench you used to remove the module from the motor. I’m guessing it’s a 1/4’ on one side and a 5/16’ on the other. Who makes that? Thanks in advance. Matt

[@HVACGUY]

it’s made by Klein. you can buy it alone, or with a kit that has small 1/4” bits to fit in the end

[@Empty7775]

@@HVACGUY Thanks Curtis

[@Empty7775]

The next time you have that wrench out, please send me the part number. Im having a hell of a time finding it. Thanks man, I appreciate it

[@DanO181919]

You are correct on the price for parts. I do mainly refrigeration work and I had the LED lights go out on a Beverage Air two door reach in cooler. The lights cost $888…. Just for the light strip. The whole cooler itself cost $5K new.

[@namskramskram6009]

Where can I get that little hand tool I see at 16:26? I'm new to the job and still learning about tools and having one of those to hit hard to reach places would be AMAZING.

[@MetalDetectingwithCZkidd]

We have used Evergreen Motors to get away from Trane pricing. With good success.

[@Larry-mn7di]

You have any experience using the rescue ez16 instead?

[@jimdolceamore3005]

It’s ridiculous how expensive their parts are. Also, Trane will not honor a 10 year warranty if the original owner sells the house. I’ve purchased a lot of Trane Centrifugals, AHU’s etc over the years but they just lost a customer today when they refused to cover my sons 8 year old blower motor because he is not the original owner. No more Trane recommendations or purchases from me.

[@Sctronic209]

Send some of that warm weather to Iowa.

[@HVACGUY]

Might take a month to get there

[@MARSdelivers]

A year later and there are some good alternatives to the overpriced OEM motors. This is a non-communicating ECM and could easily be replaced by MARS ECM 10856 / 10857 for a fraction of the Trane price.

[@gar351]

"The Chopper!"

[@Floridaman458]

I have a 2yr old RHEEM unit on a new construction home. The compressor blew so I had someone come out to replace it for $1,400. As soon as they replaced it and we turned it back on you heard loud grinding metal and the brand new compressor locked up and was immediately broken. I gave the guy half the money in good faith when we agreed upon him coming out to replace the whole condenser under warranty. Next day comes and the guy calls me, tells me they don’t make the condenser anymore cause they use a new model. He plans on keeping my $700 I gave him because he believes he did $700 worth of work (meanwhile I’m in the same spot with a broken AC) and he once again quotes me at $1,400 to come back out and change it again. He said no guarantee there isn’t metal shavings stuck in the system so if the new one blows I’m out a total of $2,100 plus then he will need to do a whole new system for around $8,000. So my 2yr old unit went from costing 1,400 to $10,000 to fix. Anyone have any advice for me? Rheem has no interest in helping replace entire unit whatsoever, even though their defective part ruined my whole system.

[@StevenTateJr]

I’d like to know what that tool that he used is.

[@michaelhediger9088]

What do you think about Goodman

[@jakerossgil3048]

Can you control the speed from the thermostat?

[@mikehouser5430]

Helicopter landing!!

[@CHRISDOESHVAC24]

What are your preferred brands you sell ?

[@peter-pg5yc]

For my back I walk, wear a weight lift belt exercise helps.also getting out of bed sounds funny its not.. bend knees drop legs down while pushing torso up. works always do that.

[@paulfultz3031]

Someone put those doors on wrong. The lip of the upper door should have been on the outside so you could take it off by removing all but one screw and the bottom door would stay on the unit.

[@bobboscarato1313]

With all the dust around the blower I bet the tenants never change the air filters!

[@Garth2011]

Landlords need to do that if they expect it to be done at all. Its part of maintenance, most tenants don't believe they should do that work.

[@bobboscarato1313]

@@Garth2011 In Houston TX,, landlords have very strong rules and it's up to the tenants to take care of basic things like replacing filters. Building maintenance men are ignoring the work due to low wages.

[@bobboscarato1313]

@@Garth2011 Trammel-Crow is a large apartment and condo landlord; like Lefrak-City in metro NYC.

[@realestateservicessaleshea99]

Thank you for saying that , they will kill the industry! 😎👍🏻🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃🇺🇲

[@Hvac-dude]

I like the rheem ruud line !!!!

[@karellodewijks4971]

👍👍😊😊

[@chris76-01]

It's called trane because you need a train load of money for it. Lol.

[@Garth2011]

I agree on the rip off prices on chinese made parts. First of all, those ECM modules never last as long as the motor and they aren't reliable. That module alone is where the money is, I think they are 80% of the cost of a new motor so by themselves, they sell for about $800 or so. Sad it is. Might be better in going with Amana, Goodman or Daiken for HVAC mainly because replacement parts are usually easy to get and priced much less.

[@Demy26]

🎉🎉🎉

[@edorofish]

So no generic parts for Trane’s? I guess not.

[@HVACGUY]

Sometimes

[@TheGgin]

@@HVACGUY Yea, it's a dilemma out there for these older ECM 2.3 motors. I agree with your comments on the PSC and anything can add up, but for these aged units, I just use the Evergreen X-13 (yea, it's X-13 and can fail), but you can still get the smoother startup and handle more constant CFMs than PSC...yea, could be similar price as the OEM module. But been working great on Trane, Carrier and York systems. The Evergreen has a programmer (only used once on my system just to see how it works) that you can customize the torque to better fit the CFMs... yea, it's time if you had to do that. But overall Customers like the price better and it's a happy medium to save the older "premium" equipment. I just document the settings, TSP, current to the best that is possible. I don't think there is a right answer here. Also agree with what big Companies are doing, but to their defense. GenTeq (Beloit) doesn't make modules for the ECM 2.3 anymore, they were replaced by the ION 5.0, so you would need a new motor anyway. I know it's neither here nor there, either way the customers pays! Good video and hope you don't get any more back spasms and it feels better.

[@scrambler350]

That old man has all day to sit there and ask a bunch of dumb questions, but didn't have time to move the crap from around the unit. SMH

[@douglaskahane141]

I fix those motors. Easy. Take the control unit off. You will see motor windings got hot. Air. The windings and put motor back together. Motor will. Run correctly. The motor and module is about 1500 cost from trane.

[@MariosACandRefrigeration]

YOU CAN easily change that to psc motor so it can handle that humidity and dirty power.if you can't afford a helper you are in the wrong business,your body will tell you.

[@PlumberD]

🚁 🚁 🚁 their everywhere…I don’t mind em…for the most part 😂 Sorry about your back…I’ve been living with it for most of my career and it sucks👎🏼

[@ThomasWalker-m2y]

It hard to stop a Train right. I've seen many stopped. Very expensive to repair. NO BETTER THAN ANY OTHER HVAC EQUIPMENT.

[@roberthanulec5987]

KISS, no variable speed motor screw the higher seer rating. Government regulations made by people behind a desk suck.

[@advancedairwv]

Gentech is less than half the cost of the OEM

[@kenwood3379]

🚁🚁🚁🚁

[@virtual_bomber5698]

I mean....if you REALLY wanted too you could put a 9v battery on it to make sure the motor is good. 🙃

[@panchogonzales6409]

😂 old guys talking about pains and aches

[@dustinbartlow4318]

does having a customer stand over you like this bother you at all? I think it would be aggravating but I understand why he is doing it.

[@HVACGUY]

No, not really

[@jonathansorise8797]

If you're an honest tech it shouldn't bother you. I actually don't mind it all. In fact generally when they do that I will sit there and walk them through what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Half the time after I tell them what's wrong they'll throw in a little tip for me. 😉

[@bobgallo3775]

Over time, you get used to it. With new equipment, guys are just curious.

[@sergioblanco4504]

Don’t you just love when the customer hovers over you while you work? 🙄

[@davidca96]

what a weird place to put the unit..

[@raymondlabarre7783]

I wouldn’t be a Trane dealer for nothing.

[@captain3xtreme]

It should be illegal to upcharge that much for parts, just like the hyundai electric car with the 60k battery. They don't want to sell parts separately so they just mark the price up. Very anti-consumer.

[@v12mike30]

That module should be repairable. It is just power electronics and some passives. Fix the broken one and sell it to the next customer for $500.

[@LLS1100]

I'm pretty sure with your experience and your knowledge couple of sensors and relays you can bypass that module if you can figure that out you can make the money

[@virtual_bomber5698]

Not that simple, those motors are effectively three phase motors with permanent magnets on the rotor. The current/voltage pulses have to be timed to the position the rotor is in so it turns correctly hence the module.

[@robertlamey7612]

I hate when homeowners are in the way. Let the man do his damn job

[@biblebloopers946]

🚁

[@a.j.5822]

What brand do you prefer or do sell that is friendly to repair costs?

[@HVACGUY]

Rheem and Ruud. Their parts aren’t nearly that expensive