Everything Is Working, But It Won’t Keep Up!

[@timcat1004]

Couple of mini-splits around the house. Then close that giant hole.

[@hvacguru-Kansas]

I know I'm a little late to the party but I would have tested the heat package for a stuck relay/sequencer or broken and shorted element that would create heat you could not see. The heat package was on the blower outlet so it would not affect your refrigerant pressures. It would only affect the temp drop (capacity) and the electric bill. Keep those videos coming!!

[@joecool152]

I might have suggested to use a fiberglass ez flow filter instead of that 3m pleated one, Those things tend to choke out an older system like that. Might help a little but probably needs replacing. great video! keep em coming.

[@jthonn]

I think like you do Joe, those filters are restrictive. This thing has more problems though.

[@AllTattedUp13]

Them things always trip out furnace limits with the slightest amount of crap on them. Easy money tho.

[@willflores671]

I would have suggested checking delta T right at outlet of package unit

[@sulki8697]

Have you tried using thumb screw core depressors? They are awesome! I will never not use them again. No more refrigerant burns 👌

[@troyb9609]

Ck the heat strip it could be on you could be heating and cooling at the same time

[@davidlopan6649]

Where would the heat strips be located? I'm from the northwest we don't come across heat pumps at all.

[@troyb9609]

​@@davidlopan6649 usually right in front of the blower fan right before the ductwork heat pumps have electric heat to temper the air when in defrost mode and it's also used for when the set temperature is 4 to 5 degrees higher to help temperature come up faster. Had one the other day 9° changeover somebody parked the low-voltage auxiliary heat from the thermostat on with the compressor terminal so when the air was on it was sending the low-voltage to call for heat also fix that problem and now it's getting 19° changeover. I would clean the evap and condensing coil and take temperature of supply and return air as close to the unit as possible to eliminate ductwork temperature lost.If i was a betting man I would say the electric heat is on

[@troyb9609]

​@@davidlopan6649 when he's cleaning the EVAP coil you will see the fan in front of the fan towards the house you will see a square metal box the heater is in there they usually slide in from the top or you have to take the side cover off on some models they slide in from the side

[@retro_88yota]

I have basically the identical twin to that package unit for my garage ac. Its old and beat up but it still gets the job done.

[@MariosACandRefrigeration]

it sounds like 5kw is on,did not see amp draw.thanks for sharing.

[@waffalobill]

Don't think I said this before, but that new truck is awesome inside. So much more room. Looks so better organized.

[@Crazywill210]

Had same problem earlier. Delta T was reading 12 to 13. I decreased fan speed and it went up to 17 to 18 delta t. Just a suggestion to try that first. Great videos bud

[@Jon-hx7pe]

higher drop due to less airflow doesn't improve cooling if there's less airflow but would improve dehumidification, what matters is total btus being removed for actual cooling.

[@jeffreylindley845]

I clean my hvac every spring and again in late summer.

[@ronroberts7566]

before we start thinking, equipment replacement, let’s accurately determine what’s going on. First step is to measure the temperature in the return air compartment at the package unit and the leaving air temperature at the unit, also laying your temperature sensor on top of the supply register is not the most accurate way, you need to insert it into the register to prevent secondary air, mixing with the primary air as it exits the register. I recommend you return to the job and measure entering and leaving air temperatures from the machine. Then if you accurately measure the air coming out of the ductwork and it’s warmer, you can prove the heat gain due to the poor insulation.

[@Lezzjam]

I had an old Amana split with low super heat and great sub cooling that had evap fins breaking down and not allowing sufficient heat transfer and resulting in low super heat

[@renecuevas4128]

When u answer the lady. Oh nothing major. 😂

[@fldave612]

That is why they don't make many of those recessed service ports anymore. That is one loud compressor, not to mentions that thing is missing its p-trap, that doesn't do much to help a weak system on a hot day.

[@143tinaed]

Curtis, If I owned that house, I would go a half ton higher on the compressor to help. But I'm not a hvac tech, and you don't answer my questions anyway. 😊

[@joshuaseaton4526]

Hey Curtis, why not just take temps at the unit, then at the grills? That will tell you right there.

[@peyton9230]

Fr

[@chinoballa760]

Right?

[@renecuevas4128]

U put the video 16 hrs ago n have over 6500 views. Wow. How u do it Mr Curtis.....i work over 30 yrs hvac but admire ur tools n expertise that only come with years of exp.........good cooling days Amen

[@ParabellumX]

(2:53) JESUS!!! 70psi on the suction side?! I'm really surprised that evaporator coil wasn't freezing! 🥶 🥶 🥶 😆

[@ChcBrs85]

70 isn't low for R22. That's a saturation temp of 41 degrees.

[@ParabellumX]

🤦🏻‍♂️ I didn't even notice it was an R-22 system... 'Preciate the heads up. 🤭

[@josephtramutola592]

Recover the Freon weigh in check pressures. That way you don’t second-guess yourself.

[@russellhltn1396]

I think I'd take a temp measurement closer to the evaporator coil. That will tell you how much is getting lost in the duct work.

[@jthonn]

Good idea Russ

[@David-lf2ne]

@@jthonn I told him that idea since we share a name. 😅

[@joemcfarland3491]

Definitely leaning towards replacing that package unit Curtis‼️ Great work as always‼️

[@WallieGator]

also cleaning blower wheel will help throw more air

[@danwittels5542]

Assuming it's an R22 system, the pressures looked OK, if I was reading your phone right. I would try recovering some gas and see if it the subcooling and super heat got better. You can always put it back in.

[@iraregister7589]

High subcooling? Where is the drier? Between the outlet of the condenser coil and the liquid service valve? If there is one there, I'd check for a temp drop across it...

[@berated4541]

I have a feeling even if you take your temp splits @ the unit you’ll still only get about a 15 degree delta-T. Which won’t satisfy on hot days. Without knowing indoor and outdoor temps it’s hard to say if those temps are “in the neighborhood” so to speak as far as LLT and SLT and so on. Since it’s a package unit we assume there’s not too much airflow across the coil, which would give you low capacity. I would look closer @ the compressor, if you wanted to fix. With that said, with that old of a unit, complete replacement is more economical long term.

[@hughholt121]

Look like a 12 inch return and long spider leg supply ducts too small for that unit. The receiver could be clogged I would just go for a complete change out and rework the duct work.

[@michaelcinaz]

At least you knew the temperature drop of 12°. I had an AC tuneup done yesterday and as the guys were leaving I asked so what was the temperature drop and they’re like oh we didn’t check that. They just checked the refrigerant level pressures and overall condition of the system. Said I needed a new contactor on the AC and also my evaporator coil was getting rusty but not leaking. They recommended getting a new unit. 🤣. My evaporator coil is six years old and the entire system is 13 years old, and it’s working just fine, why replace it? After they left, I cleaned my outside condenser coil because they didn’t. Next year I’m finding a better HVAC service company.

[@troyb9609]

When I go out on a service inspection we inspect evaporator coil and we always clean condensing coil from inside out with foaming coil cleaner and then we check pressures checking pressures with dirty coils makes no sense vacuum leaves and debris out of bottom of units put drain cleaner in condensate drain let's set for 10 minutes and flush with water while pulling vacuum recommended service once a year if your guy is not doing this he is not maintaining your system but then again the guys that come out for thirty bucks they can't do that kind of service the service inspection we do that I described runs $120 bucks

[@dsmith8425]

Yeah they should've checked air flow, Amp draw on both motors and compressor, tesp .5 for the entire system and changed the filters and cleaned the coil with the grills off. And checked the capacitor and contactor. Gauges are not needed for a maintenance "tune-up "

[@AllTattedUp13]

Guages are not needed? Bro who taught u hvac lol??? How you going to tell what the ac/ compressor is doing without hooking up to system? You sir are a hack 😆

[@David-lf2ne]

@@AllTattedUp13 Coffee cup hot & beer can cold🤚🏻

[@robcam6557]

​@@AllTattedUp13 he had his pressure probed hooked up. He even showed it throughout the video

[@jthonn]

Years ago, I changed the condenser fan motor on my MIL's unit and everything was working, purred like a kitten. It still wasn't cooling and I was pulling my hair out and I don't have that much. I cleaned the thing inside and out till it was shining, no cigar. I called out a tech and he hooked up his gages and he said that even though the compressor was running, it wasn't working. He told me he had seen that before, unusual but does happen.

[@AllTattedUp13]

The internal valves start to fail/weaken. Sometimes you can pick it up on your guages if you've been doing this long enough.

[@MEP.ENGINEERING.WORKS92]

Good work friend

[@user-ln7of9gs4s]

Curtis, what’s the size of the house? Mini splits for the win. Or, add a mini split to supplement the system. 🤷‍♂️

[@russellhltn1396]

Anytime the "HVACR VIDEOS" channel uses that brand of cleaner, he always advocates for using the same brand of dispenser. Something about the product being extra concentrated and non-standard dilution ratios. That might be the foaming issue you're running into.

[@David-lf2ne]

That’s it! I knew I’d heard somewhere about extra foam.

[@KenKen-ui4ny]

Burns as in frost bite, or just the refrigerant being scalding hot when it spews out of the schrader valve?

[@HVACGUY]

Frostbite

[@roboman9138]

frostbite

[@5822huron]

Check the piston

[@Bass.Player]

New system... Complete

[@jameschampion5742]

I would've pull a little out it wouldve raised up superheat and increased temp drop

[@robalexander7348]

Curtis, I am no A/C expert, but may be try a less restrictive indoor filter ? 👍

[@Garth2011]

I don't like package units in residential at all. Some of those are better off with mini splits or window units. In a typical house, the only way to go is with a horizontal unit in the attic with good returns and at least two of them with filters located at the register. Mobile homes are a different animal of course...sad that is.

[@devonpeeples2188]

Just based off pressure, looks like a stopped up outdoor coil with low charge. I’d think the blower wheel is probably gummed up based off the indoor coil.

[@mikeanonymous669]

Have duct(s) disconnected somewhere? Check all supply air vents to make sure adequate flow?

[@johnbixler1758]

I had to change txv setting to get 20 deg spit

[@franciscoflores2718]

Oh yes that type of connections was my first bad freon burns and my fingers balloon up

[@adampajcz8719]

Ductwork and a new package unit.

[@jthonn]

Hard call to make. I think that unit is on it's last leg and the duct is not helping any. I would suggest both. You can do the ductwork and hope for the best and if it doesn't work, replace the unit.

[@MultiTurbospeed]

Lots of people can't afford a new unit unless they start up a go fund me page

[@Perly53]

I've been looking at my house "system" with a package unit and duct work in the attic. A local HVAC company told me plan on $500-$550 per register to redo the old attic ductwork (1973). I have 8 registers in a 2/2 1130 sq. foot CBS one story home. I don't know what improvement to expect regarding lowering the temp coming out of the registers on these hot Florida summer days.

[@jthonn]

@@Perly53 That seems a little steep, but I don't know your situation. It may be a major job doing yours.

[@PhilipKeck-wz8ow]

Could 5k of heat have been running with cooling?

[@burtminshew4812]

You probably do have small carbon restrictions in that evaporator but i would have definitely cleaned that cond coil to try and get subcool down.

[@dustinbartlow4318]

Noob here. How would cleaning the condenser bring subcooling down?

[@burtminshew4812]

@@dustinbartlow4318 ... it's all in dissipating heat. Just as cleaning the evaporator coil when dirty will raise your superheat. More surface area better heat transfer. Clean condenser coil= lower head pressure= better efficiency.

[@dustinbartlow4318]

@@burtminshew4812 I figured cleaning the condenser coil would make your subcooling go up. Thanks for the clarification.

[@raymondlabarre7783]

Compressor may not be doing all it should as well. Probably a combination of that and duct

[@David-lf2ne]

Is an old compressor the culprit of lower capacity on hottest days? This plus last 2 years I’ve had to “bump start” it with breaker upon first start for season. So far has started by the fourth try. The delta T on SA & RA maintains 15-17,18 F*. My package Ac unit is 36 years old. Cools fine during low to mid 80s with off cycles, but near 90 and over and it will run 5-8 hrs. Still keeps house at 76-77 and same temperature split, just won’t satisfy T-stat to 75 for shut off. Edit: 92* ODB and it just satisfied T-stat.🤷🏻‍♂️ Maybe adding the insulation for ⬇️ drain issue helped. Plus some issue with condensate drainage. VERY slow drip,if any, but purges/drains just fine as soon as unit shuts off. Has a p-trap and pan tested for leaks by duration of time to hold water when full. Had this issue last year so I added some insulation to inside of evaporator compartment this spring. Seen a slight improvement with some dripping now where had none last year.

[@boomer9900]

You must address the question with the homeowner if the system worked correctly in the past. If it has lost heat removal capacity. That means something broke suddenly if it was working ok and then stopped gradually or suddenly. From my minimal understanding, it looks like the system is overcharged with high subcooling and a loud compressor, but I think i saw a small receiver inside so idk.

[@artbou9201]

I think we could recover the refrigerant and charge it up according to the name plate.

[@ronroberts7566]

If that’s an R 22 system, which I think it is those operating pressures do not in any way look overcharged

[@HVACGUY]

I was looking at the high subcooling

[@williamserver4332]

Check temp split at unit.

[@ericmccurdy112]

Check static pressure, check fan tap speeds. 20x20 return is only good for a 2 ton it looked like 20x20

[@ericmccurdy112]

Once static pressure is checked over .5 then suggest duct modifications or all new ducts

[@JesseDoesHVAC]

Dont know if im crazy but that looked like a 12” return as well?

[@HNIC86]

New package unit

[@davidhess4497]

Check delta T and compressor motor current draw?

[@WallieGator]

check duct and confirm heat is not on also

[@derekcattoi3326]

Your measuring subcooling on discharge line not after coil.

[@carllungwitz5171]

If you have low air flow id think you would have a high TD, i would like to see what the suction line temperature at the compressor does when the compressor shuts off, does it rise dramatically? That would indicate weak valves.

[@anthonyelectric6045]

That old beast is done its time. Ductwork and all so time for an update.

[@TheWiery322]

You do a lot of non split systems ive noticed. Ive literally never seem these mear where i live. Only one is on the church near my house. Obviously lots of commercial and industrial buildings have RTU's.

[@tonyrhoton6613]

That system could use everything in the duct part alot of issues sometimes is ductwork

[@billybrown1979]

you have to do what you have to do. keep up the work. do you watch different HVAC on youtube. be safe. is the work van doing alright.

[@HVACGUY]

Yes I do

[@harrytanase1587]

Definitively is an air flow issue. Depending on the static pressure on the supply and return, you can determine the size of duct you need on the supply and return. If the duct system is a radial one, you can add a supply and a return or upsize some ducts. If the duct system is an extended plenum pr a reduced extended plenum, you can upsize the trunk and leave the branches untouched. Worst case scenario, install a new supply in a room with two exterior valls. You have to run the metal new ductwork not flex because of the excessive external diameter. Ex: rule of thumb - 10" metal approx. 12" flex. 10" insulated metal with aluminum bubble wrap is 11" and 12" flex is 14" outside diameter. Thank you.

[@paulshlasko3608]

If it was an airflow issue, wouldn't the temperature drop be high, not low?

[@harrytanase1587]

@@paulshlasko3608 If is not enough air, you are correct.But if is too much? The duct system could be leaky on the return and is pulling warm and moist air from crawl space. Low delta T over the evaporator could be a result of a partially clogged metering device or a restriction in the liquid line. Not enough refrigerant arrives in the evaporator. A partially clogged metering device or a restriction in the liquid line will back up refrigerant in the condenser, the result being a high subcooling. A false one. If the restriction is eliminated, the system will be undercharged.

[@billwilliamson3031]

@@harrytanase1587 absolutely agree. I had the same issue on a call and the ductwork came apart just enough to let in hot air and I was so focused on the condenser I didn’t see it until my second return

[@paulshlasko3608]

@@harrytanase1587 thanks for that!

[@roberts.3712]

New system and duct work....but...$$$$

[@86AW11]

Which home warranty company did you get that job from?

[@jima3129]

I would never buy a house without a full height basement with the hvac unit in it, and full sized metal ducts.

[@DevinHVACInc]

Filter looks thick. What merv is that filter

[@JoeT.1960]

I wood go new 👍👍

[@OnusBones]

How old is the system? Maybe I missed that. Was it the right size? With ongoing supply chain issues, replacement now rather than later may be the best choice, especially if the current system is low SEER. Was there enough air flow through those ducts? Would a cheaper filter increase airflow enough? Would adding a mini-split somewhere take enough of a load off? Too many questions, that you probably considered without even thinking about it.

[@TheSirenSeeker]

It’s one of those zillion-year-old white Goodman units… Can’t be much newer than 2000.

[@orionwarren4244]

New unit. Definitely. Your customer will be overjoyed (after the sticker shock wears off, of course), and you will make a little money versus a dissatisfied customer along with the complaints that will no doubt come with trying to keep that old unit struggling along.

[@devman8youtube908]

New Unit and change ductwork.

[@billyk5107]

Fieldpiece finally updated their app for Apple phones

[@aarongunter5582]

I would never use the 3M filters they will destroy a ac system

[@woodworkking1099]

Go on, tell me more, tell me how.

[@DanO181919]

Restricts airflow

[@woodworkking1099]

@@DanO181919 but don't all air filters slow the air down somewhat?

[@DS-ss396]

@@woodworkking1099 Those old fiberglass ones don't. That's what I've always used in my 22 yr old Aire-Flo split unit.

[@z06rcr]

3M makes a great filter…. But like all filters you have to change them regularly.

[@davidd.484]

Curtis, what if the homeowner, or another HVAC person that wasn't paying attention, added a few ounces of the wrong refrigerant? Or, they topped it up with a R22 compatible, like 407c, without removing the existing R22. Would that cause the weird subcooling/superheat issue? I'm not an HVAC engineer. I'm trying to think like a customer who just found out how expensive R22 is. Or, like a HVAC "handyman" that thought, "I'll just add some of that refrigerant that I bought at a garage sale last year."

[@AllTattedUp13]

Hell yea if u added in a wrong refer your numbers will be all over the place. And the knock off r22 stuff if u don't drain old out and start fresh good luck nailing your numbers when charging lol

[@todd4335]

Oh yeah and I'm jealous of your sprinter van. My cheap boss won't buy them. I'm driving a 16 yr old 200k miles ford pos.

[@alabamahvacprofessional2946]

You're not picking up enough heat to be absorbed by the evaporator. Like others have said, it's an airflow issue - most likely that dense filter. Also, the blower wheel on that old Goodman probably has buildup on it.

[@HVACGUY]

That makes sense

[@AllTattedUp13]

I've had many of blowers wheel fins completely blocked. If the filter is nasty or better yet no filter at all ha, I always run my fingers in the blower wheel fins.

[@tonyrhoton6613]

Hows the minislits hold up in your area they r wat I call junk around here

[@guynapolitano9867]

a spit that low should have the heat strips checked

[@davidherrera2859]

I would just be honest and tell the customer that they are better off with a complete system with ductwork!

[@woodworkking1099]

Heat element stuck on

[@davidb2438]

Yep, guessing sequencer stuck closed causing heating element to be on. I’m only a few minutes into the video

[@MariosACandRefrigeration]

his making a u turn.

[@hinspect]

I thought it was an AC unit only?

[@woodworkking1099]

@@MariosACandRefrigeration LMAO I was thinking the exact same thing that why I posted so fast without watching the entire vid...

[@woodworkking1099]

@@hinspect You mean cooling only, why do you think that?

[@eaglebill3738]

Hey Curtis, it looks like a new air filter but is it a MERV 11 or 13? which older residential systems can't handle, maybe change to an old school fiberglass and see if it performs better? My background is retired from commercial units and even they weren't able to go above MERV 8 on the older units. Covid really has people putting filters that the blowers just can't overcome. Just my thought. Really like your style of quality and love the videos, Keep up the good work!

[@HVACGUY]

Thanks

[@roboman9138]

I was thinking the same thing. Just for testing purposes.... I would have liked to see if the temp drop improved significantly while the filter was temporarily removed.

[@AllTattedUp13]

I always walk thru house too and check to make sure homeowner doesn't have returns blocked by rugs, furniture, clothes. Seen that too many times.

[@randywoodward3312]

I'd say replacing the unit is the best thing to do. Replacing the duct work and not replacing the unit will not solve the problem.

[@georgeochoa632]

I think it needs new ductwork and package unit

[@Raysmaintenance]

Pull some out and it should come down -- but you know that

[@woodystokes1543]

I think the new chemical cleaners are weak. The older stuff had way stronger and stronger pulled out the dirt.

[@KenKen-ui4ny]

I remember back when i worked as a school cafeteria dishwasher. We used this degreaser that foams on contact, which was just like coil cleaner, since it had a similar odor to it. And that stuff could dissolve rotten or burnt on grease and grime like it was water. The thing is you want to wear disposable gloves while using it, because it will sting like heck, if you get it in even the smallest cut on your hand.

[@woodystokes1543]

The good stuff

[@bobbyb322]

Complete new system. I just did and the savings are paying for it.

[@johncspine2787]

Yep..I have a new Mitsubishi mini split system, it’s silent, even the outdoor unit, super efficient, I’ve never seen a blower wheel turn so slowly..it blows my mind, in addition to cold air..ductwork eliminated..!

[@user-ln7of9gs4s]

@@johncspine2787 how big is your house? How many rooms are you cooling? Is it a single or multi-zone? What size is the unit? What state do you live in?

[@johncspine2787]

@@user-ln7of9gs4s I’m in a western facing two story set into a hill, two stories facing a brutal sun. Utah..107 at height of summer, but we really only have about a month or two of that, and this is my first year with the unit, I had Mr. Swampy before, it actually worked great (25+ years) until the power cord melted and started an attic fire. Let’s see..I think it’s a five head, 3.5 ton unit, but only installed four heads for four main rooms upstairs, the 3 ton wasn’t available so we upsized slightly. Can always install 5th head ..later. Or maybe the next owner can.. (Ceilings were all torn open to get rid of smoky insulation..yeah..that’s about as much fun as it sounds like..made installing the linesets a breeze) Problem is the thermal mass of house, even times of year like right now, even if it goes to 58 at night, the glass in the house plus absorption makes the house hot, so it’s weird to have the unit still cooling when the outdoor temp drops. You have to though, or it’ll be too warm inside. It’s so strange, I grew up in the humid south, air conditioners are supposed to be loud, and blowy..you set these things fans on auto, you don’t even know it’s running hardly. I love controlling each room..you can set different temps and it’s perfect, or just turn off sides of the house (East v west) when not needed. The outdoor unit never gets hot..just warm, and the fan turns just enough to dissipate it, ramping up or down as needed..and even it is super quiet. I think I have two 9000 cassettes, a 6000, and a 12,000 for the hottest area. I have a Trane XV95 furnace as my primary heater, had that probably 15+ years..fire power surge blew its transformer and board, and burned out a power strip in the living room. Whether the power surge caused the fire, or the other way, I’ll never know, the insurance never sent an investigator, or even an agent to the house.

[@jamesfitzsimmons381]

Don’t think electric heat element/s on with 61degree supply. Wouldn’t hurt to see if one element is shorted I need to know ambient temp and rather it is a txv or fixed. What was the return temp in house also

[@HVACGUY]

A 5 kW strip would be enough to cause a negative temp drop. So, I didn’t check it.

[@mikewhittaker5984]

I think it needs duct and new unit

[@panamacitybeachbum]

Exactly.....Mike. The question is, can the customer afford it?

[@mikemoseley8711]

That coil has never been cleaned

[@CGGC0202]

if you used the proper gun for the viper cleaner, it wouldn't foam that much

[@dario6749]

That ductwork definitely has to go.

[@jeremyjenningsjjj]

Not enough return

[@trance2012]

Quote new unit and duct, that thing was old as dirt

[@harrydickson4575]

👍👍👍

[@BrendanN941]

Full system replacement with full duct replacement is needed imo

[@CountryRock2k1]

Time for a new unit. That thing is old.

[@bobparrott8130]

Replace unit

[@roberthanulec5987]

An amp check would be helpful

[@kg4muc]

What size is the ductwork? Kinda looks a bit small. Might due reducing the available CFM and that is causing lower effective temps at the register.

[@JohnSmith-ug5ci]

If the ductwork is causing the problem, then you should be able to shoot it with a laser thermometer and see a small amount of loss on the outside of the duct insulation. It will vary down the length of the duct. That being said I would NEVER suggest a new install on that old ductwork. That is asking for trouble. You are correct about 12 degrees drop at the register being too low. If it needs fixed quote a proper fix, NOT a low ball bid that cuts corners and still have possible issues. You and the owner will be far ahead if you do this.