Next time you have a difficult one like this, pull all the fuses to isolate each line. This will make things much less confusing and you can measure phase to phase and each leg to ground without getting ohm readings from windings and transformers.
@Freezier134a2 жыл бұрын
This one had me scratching my head as you went through it, then it all came together 😆
@jasonjohnsonHVAC2 жыл бұрын
Calls like that can definitely be a pain....but you did your due diligence and checked everything you could. Thats a difficult spot to find a short, the rest of the outter jackets of those wires looked in perfect condition. Can't say i could've done any better myself....so I'll say great job and thanks for the video.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! I was about to go crazy..lol
@MrJoelelectric Жыл бұрын
Good find! Sometimes cable tying wires together isn’t always a good thing. I see it in panels all the time
@BillyN312 жыл бұрын
Wow! That is a eureka moment finding those wires all crispy like that for sure!
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
🤜🤛👍👍 If I'd of seen it sooner🤦🏻
@J-Colt2 жыл бұрын
I work in a police/jail dept. One jail unit would go into free cooling mode even though the unit was not set up for it and disabled on board. Once in free cooling compressor locked out. Turning unit off then back on would reset it. Sometimes last a day sometimes a month. One day it went out twice. I reset it and stood next to unit. I could hear a short. Fan stopped and went into reverse, shut unit off and system went into free cooling. Found a wire that went underneath housing that had tiny rub mark in it. When wire would get hot it would droop and hit deck causing problem. Had to remove fan to pull wire out enough to repair. Finding that ended an almost 2 season nightmare.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing, those are the kind of calls that will kick your butt 👍👍
@jaymartin50956 ай бұрын
Crazy. Nice narrowing it down. I keep learning from you to not give up. Thanks.
@HVACRSurvival6 ай бұрын
You can do it!👍👍
@Ted_E_Bear2 жыл бұрын
Great troubleshooting skills, Rick !
@tbelding2 жыл бұрын
What you hit is one of the reason why I dislike people using tie-wraps the way they do. "Let's make sure nothing can move *yank*" I prefer using velcro ties, and when I use tie wraps, I keep them reasonably loose so the wires can move through the loop. What I think happened is almost what you suggested, except that they wrapped those wires tight enough that they were compressing against each other. That reduces insulation thickness, and any softening from heat means they'll draw towards each other. Next thing you know, they start to merge, slowly.
@ares39142 жыл бұрын
You sounded so relieved you found that short. I know how frustrating that can be looking at everything with a fine comb and in the heat.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
I made a few key mistakes in narrowing it down, the first one was to believe the maintenance guy checked the fuses correctly which I don't remember if I double checked them or not. Also Three phase motors have such low resistance it's hard to get an accurate indication of a shorted wire versus the motor resistance. The short was just barely touching the other wire and didn't show completely zeroed out, I had around one and a half ohm area
@peteflores52662 жыл бұрын
Glad you found the hidden burnt out wires,that one was tricky!good job!
@sterlingarcher462 жыл бұрын
Man you must have jumped in the air when you found the short , there's no such feeling besides finding a small leak nobody managed to find before !👍
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
It's a big relief when you find it
@makinbac0n2 жыл бұрын
Electrical problems can be time consuming and hard to find. That's how it is being a technician. Many customers do not know what it takes to diagnose an electrical issue. Time.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Very true🤜🤛👍👍
@berylwhite29832 жыл бұрын
That is amazing work you did a good job! You had to be one heck of a detective to get that. Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you. Keep up the great work the world needs more like you!
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
🙏🙌👍👍😉
@analogmoz2 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival _Sherlock Holmes and the Curious Case of the Warsh and Poosh_
@rgj58322 жыл бұрын
Thanks for putting these videos out I am not in the HVAC Industry (RF Engineer). However these videos have helped me learn and even apply what I have seen to repair my own AC system. Mine failed ended up being a bad motor starter in the Middle of the night. It's very hot even at night in South Alabama! Thanks!
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
That's okay I was going into electronics repair and changed my major 3 months prior to starting at Devry. I had been through electronics in high school and tore things apart since I a kid
@jamestoy4262 жыл бұрын
Awesome find definitely got the super tech badge this week
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
That took a while to find so not really 🤣
@richseahag4980 Жыл бұрын
The drive and the melted wires are not a coincidence.
@RJMaker2 жыл бұрын
Gotta love the grind. Good find brother!
@bradgeary34672 жыл бұрын
“that is some amazing stuff” 😂 once i heard of a guy who replaced a blower motor to find the trouble symptom had not changed after install. the guy who told me his story said the equipment owner was there watching the repair. realizing his mistake he had to play it cool and find the shorted wire and correct it with out showing his mis diagnosis…… 😊.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
If I screw up I admit it and remedy the situation. I build trust with my customers so they trust me once they have me work on there equipment. We all make mistakes but how we deal with the mistake is what makes us a good tech in my oppion.
@bradgeary34672 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival i was a good tech today. warranty on a Sunday holiday weekend. yay. totally my fault. owned it and ate it.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Integrity is something you can't buy. 👍👍
@bradgeary34672 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival it something that sells though. word spreads
@Sctronic2092 жыл бұрын
Nice find great video. They can’t all be easy that’s what makes it fun and interesting great job.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Thanks HVAC1!!
@throttlebottle59062 жыл бұрын
holy fudge. I blame the ZAP STRAPs smashing the wire together (never mind the undersized chinesium wire that melted together) I'm going to guess it single phased and the remaining pair cooked the junk over-fused(for start current) and undersized wiring.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Your correct, there was no reason other than looks to have it there and they were border line capacity wires. CHEAP AS CARRIER thanks to all the OTHER CHEAP ass company's racing to the bottom of quality.
@johnwalker8902 жыл бұрын
Good job Rick, Ducks in the Hood! I've been saving my money for the same megger, Good work again.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
I got mine on eBay
@EverythingHVACR2 жыл бұрын
Nicely done Rick! Good catch
@FrozenHaxor2 жыл бұрын
The new fuses are green so you know they're good!
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣👍👍
@joeshearer12472 жыл бұрын
Glad you are liking the Probe Master leads. Shannon I wear my sunglasses at night told me about them! Happy Father’s Day
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Thanks brother Joe! There awesome, as you noticed, I cut them shields like you said 👍👍
@joeshearer12472 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival I did notice that brother Rick!
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
😂🙏🙏
@joehead12942 жыл бұрын
Found some more "new" equipment to work on. You must be living right! Makes you wonder about that VFD.
@FrostHVAC2 жыл бұрын
We all miss things, those wires welding together was interesting. Typically I check all motors to ground, if I find none, I immediately start checking all high voltage wires. Most times i find shorts from rub outs between metal and or other things. I've seen wires melt together from grounds of a compressor, but never that. If I also recall correctly, those small fuses are just to catch the VFD when it grounds out. If I bypass the VFD, I'll put the fuses in series with the motor. Great video bro, nice find
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for checking it out! 👍👍
@alejandrovazquez4862 жыл бұрын
Thats easy to miss the first go around good job
@xishxander85102 жыл бұрын
Loving the sheer outrage upon discovery. That is so me lol. Great work as always 👍
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
I was so pissed about the dang fuses, I HATE FUSES. 🙌🤜🤛👍👍
@xishxander85102 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival Fuses are friends lol. Ah well, on to the next problem...
@justindarkcloud2 жыл бұрын
Sign in front of a hotel say’s “If your wife’s hot, our AC works”
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
😂🤣👍👍
@matthewbeddow32782 жыл бұрын
A tricky one for sure. Great fault-finding skills. Great video, thank you, Rick.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
👍👍🤜🤛
@trebrehenuf2 жыл бұрын
"It is but it aint" Solved by your thinking.
@billjames31482 жыл бұрын
Hot day and you had a helper, lucky you. Good video,
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Very seldom that happens.
@RjsEpicAdventures2 жыл бұрын
Very good work gotta keep digging that was a tough one
@amersingh25572 жыл бұрын
Great fault finding skills and video... the stress was agonising. At least you got it at the end ❄️
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
I was digging deeper and deeper, there wasn't much left🤦🏻😂
@ala13312 жыл бұрын
Geat job I would of added a contacor so the blower wouldnt stay working all the time
@dougking75922 жыл бұрын
I don’t know why it seems like that Bryant and Carrie has this problem with all the other brands out there using the same drives, if it was just me or is anyone else finding the.same on going problems great video Rick
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
That was a smaller drive than what they first started using. I don't know if that's only because it was a smaller system? You can't tell me putting that drive inside that box where the cold damp air is pulled across it is good for it. Not to mention all the dirt. It's a shit design 😁
@dougking75922 жыл бұрын
Yes sir that is the only thing that I have come up with that is different from all the other drive’s being used
@jimmylanders21752 жыл бұрын
Awesome troubleshooting! Thank you so much.
@commenter54692 жыл бұрын
The good practice is to put the fuses in line with overload protection paired up to a contractor to protect motor from burning in case of contacts welding up. But I’ve never seen anything but bi-metallic disc thermal overloads on anything pertaining to that size of the A/C units. Most of the time fuses protect the wiring and not motors or heaters. That’s why fuses must be selected to a conductor ampacity rating, the only thing you can do for things with in-rush ( like motors and transformers) is install the time delay/slow burn fuses. The fuse that are exceeded the conductor ampacity was probably selected because of motors start up in rush and they were instant burn fuses, NEC allows selecting no higher than 250% of motors FLA, but - it is for the motor protected with overload protection!
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing Commenter! Sounds legit to me.
@mrfrenzy.2 жыл бұрын
The blower motor did have overload protection - inside the VFD. Unfortunately when that gets removed no one bothers to replace it with a motor starter.
@commenter54692 жыл бұрын
@@mrfrenzy. As usual! 😁
@billybee3534 Жыл бұрын
becarefull brother way you handling wires
@zack99120002 жыл бұрын
That would have made my head explode
@heatingairservices87082 жыл бұрын
Great find lot work to finely find the hidden gem always seems to Be the last place we look lol
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
I know🤦🏻
@thefathvacguy63412 жыл бұрын
Good find
@lnk43282 жыл бұрын
Do you think that maybe they figured that the motor's starting amperage would be less due to it being designed with a VFD?
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
It could have been but the total amps was mid to top 40 amp area with the drive removed and both compressors running.
@jasonjohnsonHVAC2 жыл бұрын
Those drives on Carrier's are soft starters with 2 set frequencies programed in. Y1 and G is 40hz. Y2,W1&2 are 60hz.
@Eddy632 жыл бұрын
How in the world did you spot that shorted wire ... It was so camouflaged ... Great troubleshooting ... Thx for sharing cause it'll show the youngens how to do it ...
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Normally I would have picked up on it sooner, that's the first time I've seen it on that unit, I will be looking for it from here on out.
@harrydickson45752 жыл бұрын
Great job 👏👏👍👍👍
@WillPlaysGames19932 жыл бұрын
3:15 nice song you got there lol
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
I called the problem but it didn't ohm out that way.
@chicoabdallah39442 жыл бұрын
Good job bro like always
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man!
@johncantrell614 Жыл бұрын
Great job.
@thesilentonevictor2 жыл бұрын
Great catch 👌 Rick
@TechnicalLee2 жыл бұрын
You measured ohms to ground for a dead short at the beginning, you should also measure the ohms between the phases so you catch a phase-to-phase short. With all the contactors open you should measure maybe 10-30 ohms from just the transformers, but with the phase short you would have seen less than 1 ohm on one pair. I think you were locked into thinking it had to be a short to ground like it is most of the time. Thanks for posting.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Three phase compressors can run 0.5ohms at times. I forget what I measured but I believe I did check that. I stuttered the video in the beginning if you caught that to acknowledge the possibility of a winding to winding short.
@liam32842 жыл бұрын
Without an LCR meter, you cannot tell between windings and a phase to phase short. I check transformers by measuring the inductance, not sure if motor manufacturers publish that.
@TechnicalLee2 жыл бұрын
@@liam3284 Yes, you can because the compressor contractors are open when off and the windings are out of the circuit.The transformers have a high enough resistance you can tell the difference between them and a short. Easy enough to disconnect them if you still have doubts.
@philipmariaegeanga7984 Жыл бұрын
thats what do we call sureballing if one section dies then that section is the problem
@SDPP9922 жыл бұрын
I see a recall!!
@00ABBITT002 жыл бұрын
Visual inspections are important.
@toddthegamer2 жыл бұрын
how offten do you come across these newer units that have vfds, and the vdf is blown up
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
To many.
@toddthegamer2 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival wouldn’t you think they would put that vfd in like the electrical room and not the unit it’s self where it’s exposed to humidity, and varying temps
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
That would require more install work. Installers didn't even hook up a UV light on the new install change out, what do you think would happen if they shipped a drive unhooked? It wouldn't get installed. This is the battle we face between install and service.
@toddthegamer2 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival yeah true
@thesilentonevictor2 жыл бұрын
Happy Father's day to you Rick
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! Same to you if your a dad!
@thesilentonevictor2 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival yes I have a son same birthday
@donaldpainter9562 жыл бұрын
That unit had more fuses than I've ever seen in a single unit did they have everything separated into different circut boxes or something I couldn't tell alot by the video I'm just trying to think I'm my mind what was going on with all the fuses.Thanks for the video
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
They were there to protect the individual wires that feed the elements.
@RodrigoRamirez-fc5hv2 жыл бұрын
You are right
@shine-cg9uf2 жыл бұрын
🇺🇸💪👍❄🙏 great troubleshooting skills. U the man!! Thanks for sharing 👍🏼
@jonnymac312 жыл бұрын
Sweet dude.
@hmedwards32 жыл бұрын
What brand/model are the new test leads?
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
I will need to look that up
@lee-johnson2 жыл бұрын
Loose factory screw terminals?
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
They were a little loose but not extremely loose. I really doubt that the wire was 6 gauge.
@royamberg91772 жыл бұрын
The code allows for lighter wire in a unit. It's not heavy enough a lot of the time
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
That doesn't surprise me. It should run an industry standard across the board. 6 gauge for 60 amps, 8 for 50a and 10 for 30 a. But what do I know 😉
@royamberg91772 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival I agree. Wire shouldn't be smaller in a unit because of some stupid code that allows for wire that's to small
@SupremeRuleroftheWorld2 жыл бұрын
fun fact: the reason VFD's in america break so often is because they are undersized and run too hot and blow up. most desiners take the upper limit as continuous rating.
@HVACRSurvival2 жыл бұрын
What country are you in?
@SupremeRuleroftheWorld2 жыл бұрын
@@HVACRSurvival i mostly work in the netherlands and belgum (in the socialistic hellscape called europe) on industrial chillers wich all have VFD's these days or are converted to VFD. non VFD compressors and fan based systems are bascially a non starter for any new system built in the past 10 years there. even apprentices only see fixed speed systems on 20+ year old installations or in class to learn the basics. building codes and energy efficency laws basically made single speed systems unsellable. everything is VFD here any hardly never break because they are specced correctly with enough margin for error and placed properly. our ABB and schneider rep my company uses is from cali and 80%+ of the failliures he has seen in the US is simply because the manufacturer of the unit undersized it for the conditions its in just to try and save a buck and basically gamble on the idea that its fine as long as it survives the warranty period, after that it aint their problem anymore.
@jasonjohnsonHVAC2 жыл бұрын
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld that drive is the ACS550 i believe or its the ACS320. In carrier units. 320 is supposed to be rated at .5 to 30hp.
@SupremeRuleroftheWorld2 жыл бұрын
@@jasonjohnsonHVAC under what conditions? No way that unit will do 30hp sustained in desert conditions. Most units have significant deratings when it comes to temperture, humidity, altitude and incoming voltage and current and motor voltage just to name a few. Most equipment manufacurers dont look at those or usually just ignore them and ride the warranty wave and hope it lasts a season.
@jonnymac312 жыл бұрын
@@jasonjohnsonHVAC the 320 can be ordered 0.5 HP up to 30 HP. Not that every 320 is rated 0.5 to 30. The user manual applies to all HP ranges.