Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion by Dan Simmons! Full Review, Analysis, Exploration. Podcast Style!

I teamed up with my boy Scott Danielson @The Shelf Wear Podcast to dig deep into the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons.
Part 2, Endymion adn Rise of Endymion here- • Endymion and Rise of E...
You can find his awesome and extensive podcast here- www.shelfwear.com
His KZbin presence is here- / @scottdanielson
Enjoy!
#booktube #scifi #epic #spaceopera #dansimmons #hyperion #canterburytales #ai #technology #horror #johnkeats #love #life #death

[@dangerousmatt522]

You guys propose that the religious themes may make this book less approachable for atheistic people and that may be why it is less popular as compared to something like Dune or Foundation. I disagree. As someone who is atheist, I loved the religious themes in the first 2 books. The themes do not come across as critical nor supportive towards religion. Rather, it feels a lot more like Simmons is pondering what role religion is meant to take in a more futuristic, highly technological society.

[@johnadams3566]

This is probably my favorite Sci-fi series. It’s so amazing and layered. Such a great read

[@stevenjones6780]

Back in the mid '90's when I stumbled upon The Cantos I tried to find something-anything!- on Dan Simmons. All I could find was that cover sleeve photo of him, in all black staring right back thru the camera. I just wanted to go find the man, and shake him! and say: "What in the Hell is the matter with you, you beautiful monster!"

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

It is amazing. I can't wrap my head around the unbelievable scope of this story 🤯

[@mibelloaleman]

OMG! This is the best video that explains Hyperion! I loved it! Noah, you explained this book, that I have been afraid to read but so interested in it, so wonderfully that it now doesn't seem so difficult. I have Hyperion and just ordered The Fall of Hyperion thanks to your wonderful explanation, as well as Scott's. I love it because of your enthusiasm in describing it and made it seem almost like someone was reading it to you. Sounds fascinating and I will read it, thanks to you. Please do a video like this about the Culture series by Iain Banks. Thanks.

[@darioa1345]

I just started Hyperion as an audio book on my long runs. Never really paid any attention to it before I saw it on your channel. A really, really good book! Wow!

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Yes Dario! Hope you enjoy yourself. Fall of Hyperion is even better imo!! 😊

[@darioa1345]

Sounds good!

[@stevenjones6780]

Listening again to this dialogue there's so much in these writings! For example that 'Benjamin Button' movie with Brad Pitt aging backwards. Or that scene in 'Cloud Atlas' where Tom Hanks and Halle Berry's characters climb that 'forbidden mountain pilgrimage' and find all those "bacon corpse refugees" ; It took me to that exact place where they found all the packed corpses in 'The Labyrinths'. I read Hyperion probably back in the mid '90's. I remember thinking a few things about Dan Simmons: He despises the Catholic Church😆, he's not afraid to leave unanswered questions and loose ends like "What the hell were The Labyrinths"? Every time the web was really coming into being in the '90's, I thought of Dan Simmons. He was totally predicting the future, among other things...

[@elenamakridina8196]

I've never thought about Paul Dure as a tragic character because he's such a strong person. For me Lenar Hoyt is a tragic character, he's trapped and used and thrown away. On my first read of Endymion I had a strong feeling that he was a good guy still, that he was sabotaging AI's plans, feebly and quietly. Why else would he keep Captain Father de Soya on the mission? Why did he eventually get killed? Now I'm not so sure. I feel like I need to read it for the third time:)

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

It is an amazing series! I will reread it on down the road sometime. 😎

[@cahalsall]

Unfortunately Lenar Hoyt carried both cruciforms and resurrections alternated between Hoyt and Duree. Simon Augustino Cardinal Lourdusamy was not present the last time the resurrection took place.

[@elenamakridina8196]

@@cahalsall I don't think they planned to resurrect either of them. I think they wanted to get rid of both Paul Dure and Lenar Hoyt. That's what I read between the lines)))

[@cahalsall]

@@elenamakridina8196 Interesting, never thought of it that way.

[@SeanHummer]

to the guy talking about "A Winter Haunting"... it's a good book but you really need to read "Summer of Night" first... one of his best novels.

[@shobhitkaul8076]

I was mind blown by the pi story too. Uman is so cool

[@vforviblz]

things tha Sol is talking about on humanity's relationship with god is amazing staff. Abraham sacrificed son in later generations parents were sacrificed (meaning all that humanity had to endure like dark ages, wars, holocausts, death of earth) and now no more sacrificed would be offered, either god would come as a friend or we he should leave. Sol is OG.

[@SamIAm-kz4hg]

I began reading again for the fourth time at least. It is the best set of sci-fi books I've ever read, by far. Oh, and in case you want the best horror writing there is, read Carrion Comfort. Makes Steven King look like Dr. Seuss.

[@thefont4345]

Funny story, I was in a bookshop with my teenage son, who is not a reader, and he picked up a copy of Dune. It's because people like you make this type of book cool. Yay😃😎

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

I love the Dune series too. Very awesome Barb!! 😎

[@michaelmcgee335]

I read Hyperion years back, trippy as fuck, had a woman who aged rapidly backward and father who sought a cure, a odd sect were all seventy members were identical in height and a bunch of other weird stuff. Never read the sequel. Maybe one day but I’d have to start from scratch. Gothic sci-fi would be the sub genre I’d call it.

[@vazquezcarlos]

I thought the Keats Cybrid was on a remade earth? Similar to what the mice did in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. But then again, I remember them mentioning the old earth is somewhere else. Now I'm confused...was it not a remade earth and it was actually the original earth?

[@lescobrandon1011]

NOT MY CUP OF TEA

[@vazquezcarlos]

The Cybrids remind me of Battlestar Galactica and the human looking cylons, and how their consciousness is in a central computer database, and they can be reborn by downloading their memories.I wonder if BG copied the idea from Simmons. Also, I almost feel like Hyperion is a pre-history of Dune, whether he did it deliberately or not. Spoiler alert... in Endymion, you find out AI has been banned and the Catholic Church in in control...similar to the Butlerian Rebellion and the rise of the Orange Catholic Church.

[@stevenjones6780]

In cinema I found 'Cloud Atlas' taking me to some of the same places and energies that Hyperion achieved. I tell folks you've gotta see that movie about 5 times to hit "critical mass" in comprehension, engagement, etc. I should re-read Hyperion for a 3rd time. One can't help but wonder at the prospect of that on film!

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

It would be so amazing. EPIC!!

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

Well, now they finally filmed the ring and Dune, it's time for a film series of the three Hyperion books . We have the CGI , so it must be possible.

[@tiltingatwindmills3243]

Interesting note: Bradley Cooper owns the movie rights to Hyperion and has apparently been trying to find a way to make it work on screen for a while

[@elenamakridina8196]

I liked the questions you asked yourself, like "why is this bit put there right next to the other part of the story". I never do that. I think I should considering that writing is my hobby:)

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Simmons is a master story-teller, so you can be sure there is a reason behind the delivery of information. At first it was "well, he loves John Keats" but when we were going thru death so slowly and vividly with him I thought there must be something more to it in a big-picture way. Thanks Lena!!

[@andyc2479]

I would highly recommend listening to the audiobook version of at least Hyperion, each tale has a individual narrator and for me those voices became the characters, the casting is sublime. The fall of version doesn’t keep that because of the switch in narrative style but it still brilliantly narrated. Hyperion is probably one of the best audiobook narrations ever done and if you enjoyed reading the book you have to experience it this way

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Thanks Andy! Perhaps down the road I will listen to this 🙏🙏

[@andyc2479]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse I kind of judge my life as pre and post the Hyperion cantos, it changed my perspective on pretty much bloody everything! I haven’t searched if you have read and discussed ilium/Olympos yet but if not they are Simmons 2nd best series, it has the Greek gods, hilariously witty robots obsessed with Shakespeare and Proust and the only monster that can compete with the shrike for terrifying, it’s completely batshit crazy and bloody wonderful

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

@@andyc2479 nice! I have not read it yet but will pick them up. Simmons is wonderful literary sci-fi/horror! Awesome

[@robertcessford3745]

Honestly the poet is the best performance in my opinion

[@ibnomat]

When I first saw Steppenwolf in Justice League, I thought ... this is how the shrike might look like.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Haha!

[@fred4894]

The Cantos is easily my favorite book series, Hyperion and The Fall are my favorites. Endymion and The Rise are good too. Great Video!

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Thanks Fred! This was a blast to read and talk through :)

[@spicynachohaggis7756]

I loved these books but didn't know anyone else who read them !

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Brother, they are so epic. Simmons is not talked about much in sci-fi circles.

[@blerg-z2h]

I had to stop the video because they started talking about spoilers in books three and four, so…. Cool.

[@vazquezcarlos]

I'm half way through book 3 and they didn't say much to spoil it.

[@bannerman3553]

Absolutely loved these books except the Sol/Rachel story... drawn out...

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

And sad, more of a Father's story and may not resonate as strongly with some. Thanks for your comment 😎

[@bannerman3553]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse I have little kids too., I guess non parents need to have it stresses to them but the excessive soppyness was more suitable in a different genre of book.

[@pushitlpvo]

We’re in on the ground floor here. I have a feeling.. always have. Snow Crash would be awesome too. 👍

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Fuck yeah 💪

[@flowaroundtherock]

Awesome podcast! As much as I enjoyed the characters and world building in Hyperion, I enjoyed the plot and big ideas more in The Fall of Hyperion. A lot of my favorite aspects of the series including The Void Which Binds, the TechnoCore factions, the Ultimate and Human UI, Sol and the Shrike, the Rachel and Moneta ending, the Ousters, and much more were introduced or expanded upon in The Fall of Hyperion. I agree that it starts a little slow but I actually enjoyed the Severn and Gladstone scenes. It didn't bother me that the structure changed because that wasn't the primary reason I liked Hyperion. I liked the backstories provided in Hyperion but preferred the plot progression in The Fall of Hyperion. It's my favourite book in the series and in my top 5 books of all time.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

It is so good! It is awesome how strong of a writer Simmons is. Hope you enjoy our take on Endymion and Rise of Endymion as well!

[@flowaroundtherock]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse I'll listen to it today or tomorrow! I'm interested to hear your thoughts because I like how you broke down the first two books, and the next two books are quite different.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

@@flowaroundtherock it is the best! I don't see how anyone can stop and not finish the series 😝

[@cahalsall]

Lenar Hoyt story was the most fascinating.

[@Rajathon]

I was waiting to finish these two before I watched this video. I am so glad I read these. Great breakdown my favorite was also Sol's story. The religous implications drove me wild. Loved these books.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Thanks Ramsey, you are going to love the final 2 as well! 😎

[@silviangc8486]

I'm halfway through Endymion and while I LOVE this series, my initial impression is that it is nowhere near as complex as the original 6 dune novels. Also, to say that Dune has "just humans" is incredibly, incredibly reductive and simplifying it. You have the great houses of the Landsraad, you have the Spacing Guild w/ it's navigators, you have the Bene Gesserit, the Bene Tleilax, Mentats, the Fremen, the Suk Doctors, and on, and on, and on. I love Hyperion and the AI element but damn was I saying "What the heck?" when he started talking about that at 3:05.

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

And, the last two books hinted at a enemy that drove the Maters back to the known universe. Now this was supposed to be AI , bannend after the Butler Jihad. But then his son took over the series and messed everything up !

[@christyioran2969]

I just finished the first 2 books, and as an expectant first time father, Sol Weintraub's story was one of the most emotionally affecting things I've ever experienced in fiction

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Amazing!

[@Concan77]

Definitely agree that the Scholar's Tale was the most moving of the bunch. I was hoping for some discussion on whether or not the Consul is a psychopathic villain.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Consul was a "traitor" for not seeing the Ousters as enemies but, part of greater humanity. Not a villain. Perhaps the most tragic character in the series

[@sterlingreads547]

Too cool Noah! I think Hyperion was way better than Dune. Excited to carry on this year with the series.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

It definitely has more heart than Dune 😊 thanks Summer!

[@stevenjones6780]

Yes but Foundation and Dune came first in a natural evolution of the art form.

[@sterlingreads547]

Steven Jones, I’ll be reading Foundation soon. By saying I prefer Hyperion over Dune, I’m not trying to take away what Dune has done for the genre. 😊

[@stevenjones6780]

@@sterlingreads547 I hear you. I prefer Hyperion as well...

[@alexcayarga9339]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse totally agree.

[@ibnomat]

This is without any doubt the best SciFi Book EVER! And it even got better with Endymion. What kind of writing god is Dan Simmons?

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Ikr it is completely awesome

[@2ndhandbookclan274]

Great review guys!! I loved the discussion

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Thank you!

[@MrZerakian]

Amazing series of books.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Love love LOVE

[@s24261]

Ilium and Olympus of Dan Simmons 👌

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

I hear it rocks. I have no doubt and will check it out in the future of my channel

[@alexpatterson5471]

I might be missing something in the comments already, but what about the Consul? Loved just story! And the looks we got into the Ouster culture as well

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

The Consul is an awesome character- a traitor to the power structure because of his affinity for the Ousters, and a savior of humanity by embracing our further evolution! 😍😍

[@stevenjones6780]

Noah, what do you think of the genre; 'Sci-Fi Horror' assigned to Simmons work? I myself find it particularly apt in describing 'The Hollow Man', for example- read that one?

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

I have not read the Hollow Man by him. I think it totally works for the Hyperion series though. The Shrike and then the Nemes are complete horrorshow!

[@leststoner]

YES!!!!¡!!

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

😎👍

[@silviangc8486]

You should also put SEVERE spoiler warnings for the next two books in this, Endymion and Rise of Endymion. I started watching because I had finished Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion, but your guest goes right into the next two books multiple times and gives away character involvement and answers some lingering questions from the first two books.

[@thexulterius]

Thank you for the warning!

[@majorgrubert5887]

I finished it and I think I may reread the first two books to fully understand what I now know of each character. It’s vast for sure. So the shrike is actually Kasad? The entire time…???

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

No, the Shrike is part of the source code of the technocore...

[@maradjade1848]

Father Paul Dure is my favorite character, this is coming from an atheist but the Hyperion series has handled religion better than any book I have ever read including the bible.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

It is amazing what Simmons does. Dure is such a tragic character 🥺

[@EquinoxIV]

I accidentally read Fall of Hyperion before Hyperion. My journey through the Cantos started in the deer garden, with the largest fleet of warships ever being sent of to that remote planet of Hyperion, to fight of an alien invasion. It worked out really well. I just liked how not everything was explained (that happened in the first book), but everything made sense.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

That's pretty wild! The first book being all setup and getting most of the characters backstory is wonderful + having such a representative group of humans from many classes/planets. The second book is so much action and chaos/tempered by the Keats cybrid death-process. I loved it

[@jasnacar9186]

I went: endymion> rise > hyperion > fall

[@jasnacar9186]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse I've been going through your channel....It's pretty damn good ! Subbed....

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

@@jasnacar9186 appreciate that! I try 😁

[@Spagghetii]

Cool podcast on a fantastic series, I was also let down by the second book for the same reason most sequels fail in that it answers all the questions and removes the mystery. Of course I was yearning for those answers at the end of the first book and the fall didn't disappoint.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Thanks Spagghetii

[@madbakai]

Guys, are there spoilers if i haven’t read Endymion and the Rise yet?

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Spoilers for Endymion and Rise of... No... Here we are only talking about the first 2 books

[@padraigdevitt8755]

Really appreciate this chat. Thanks guys :-)

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Pleasure! More Dan Simmons on the horizon...first some Gene Wolfe, Book of the New Sun 💪💪

[@padraigdevitt8755]

Ah great !

[@majorgrubert5887]

I have too many questions

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

😊😊

[@BookTimeWithRyan]

Have you also done the two Endymion books?

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Yes 💪😎

[@BookTimeWithRyan]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse the last one affected me for a couple days.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

@@BookTimeWithRyan I sobbed at the end of Rise of Endymion, the very end

[@BookTimeWithRyan]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse I could have.

[@danecobain]

Epic review!

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Thanks Dane! This epic series deserves epic treatment 😆

[@chroniquephilousophique9983]

Just a word on the Martin Sillenus Story, which was my favorite. The hyperion cantos was, in the first book, at least in my mind, construct like an hommage to all genre in litterature. Each have their avatar in a way. HP lovecraft cosmical horror with Hoyt and Duré, War thriller with Kassad, Cyberpunk with Bhrawn Lamia, Drama à la Jonh Irving with Weintraub and Rachel ect... Martin Sillenus was more an hommage and a critic to litterature mix with a glimpse of slasher style. What i like with Martin, aside from his caustic way to see things aroud him, is that he is vey connected with all this human create god tropes of the book. If you remember well his story with Billy, it is clearly stated that the wave of murder from the Gritche in Hyperion is directly connected with him finding his muse while writing is new Cantos. The fact that Billy strongly advise him to burn his writing about the gritch is not a minor detail because it is, in a way, the very souce of his awekening. The same way human create a god out of time, Martin suicidal and cynical views on the world create our very own nemesis. The death brigner, or so they say, the devil himself. Martin said something very biblical when he start to tell it's story and when it end. " At the begining there was the verb" with means all creation beginings with the idea of creating and thus begin to exist just because of it. And that in way, Martin participating in the genral a.i culture, was in fact cresting the world and the devil. It's very mindblowing cause we have to see this in a looping time way, but it is very fascinating.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Wow, that is very awesome. Amazing even... I love that

[@chroniquephilousophique9983]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse Thank you. I read this book as a teenager and it blows me away. I read it again as an adult, and it blows me away even more. And of course i love your podcast 😃

[@alexcayarga9339]

loved this talk!

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

I'm glad! If you've read Endymion and Rise of Endymion there is a part 2 exploring them in the description box 😊👍

[@alexcayarga9339]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse I want to I just finished fall and will start Endymion soon!

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

@@alexcayarga9339 Yes! Let me know what you think, I love this series so much 😊

[@MrRob113a]

Read em all.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

I have, part 2 is discussed as well. What an amazing series 😍

[@mrgauth]

The book being 6 novelas slapped together ruins any chance of me liking this book. I hate short stories. Can't help but be intrigued by the idea of it, but the structure of it just does not work for me. Saddens me.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

The stories told by each of the pilgrims are hardly "slapped together." It serves to build the world(s), time and circumstances of humanity in this far future. Good luck reading what you enjoy 😎

[@godofchaoskhorne5043]

I lost it when the ousters turned out to be furries. Lapis Lazuli to all of you my friends, may the dirigibles take you somewhere over the rainbow. These books sucked so bad lol... bro they sing songs at the end of both books lol. The answer to everything turns out to be "love"! HAHAH. The entire book has this pretentious "poet" thing but the poetry is horrendous. It constantly makes religious allegories but it's laughably bad. Hahahahahaha Sol.. holy fk Sol's like "aaah, it was not God that was testing Abraham but Abraham that was testing God" HAHAHA broooo... The ousters are FURRRIES Also his prose is straight up shit bro. Zero style, lapis to the mother fkn Lazuli. Thesaurus user, who will use an obsecure word but then reuse it 3 or 4 times in the next page or two, then never use it again. And he can't come up with a decent name for anything if his life depended on it. He even ruins already good terms like cyberpunk by turning them into crap lime cyberpuke. In the end every Muslim world either goes "nuclear jihad" or becomes a theocratic medieval sharia state. Don't get me wrong there were some entertaining bits to the story. But the whole time I'm sitting there reading and thinking is there a point to this pretentiousness, he acts so deep about religion and poetry while he doesn't seem to understand any of it, he's acting like what he's saying is super deep but it literally means nothing and or is super dumb. Ho also, what kind of psychopath puts a green tinge in the sky of the planet most of the story takes place on? Who thinks it's a good idea that all colors on hyperion look more vivid from a distance and become hazy and pastel or whatever if you come close. That fkd so hard with my brain. The green sky infuriated me. The lapis Lazuli daylight skies when lapis is a dark blue. This guy is literally developmentally challenged. And looking at the reviews for his latest book, lol ...

[@pushitlpvo]

Yo check it, Bradley Cooper been obsessed since college, this is what he's been doing

[@thebigjuggalobowski]

Bro have you ever done any Gene Wolfe? I’m halfway through The Book Of The New Sun and it is definitely the work of a crazy genius. By the way, I would be finished with the series but when I finished the first one I (not immediately but shortly after) read it again. Then….. I read it again. Then I read the second one…. Then I read it again. Now I’m on the third one and can almost guarantee I’ll have to read it twice. I’ve never read a book so dense in its world building, while being so subtle. I hate to make the comparison, but if you like gaming, the way the story is delivered reminds me of Dark Souls narrative. Like, you could read it and get a nice cool story out of it, or you can dig in deep and have your mind blown out of your skull.

[@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse]

Nice! I have heard of Gene Wolfe, but never read anything. You have piqued my interest sir!

[@thebigjuggalobowski]

@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse nice! Being that you are also a DFW fan I think this will be right up your alley. It’s challenging and rewarding. And super dark lol.