Hyundai IONIQ 5 1-100% DC Fast Charge -- How Long? (Power and IONIQ 5 Charge Curve)

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks, Steve. I think G-GMP is really the best balance at this point, where it supports all types of stops (10 min bathroom stop, 20 minute stretch break, and a 30 to 40 minute meal).

[@anthonyc8499]

The HI5 and EV6 are just so stinkin' good at charging. Despite the fact I only road trip 1-3x a year farther than 300 miles, those speeds make me envious. ID4, MME, Polestar 2, etc all charge fast enough that a 10-12 minute stop or two would get them to a destination 300 miles away in the same amount of time as the Ioniq 5. Heck, I bet your new pack Bolt EV wouldn't be more than 20 minutes behind everybody over a distance of 300 miles. The E-GMP's advantage isn't apparent until you hit distances like 350 miles or more.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@anthonyc8499 Yes, 300 mile trips really aren't that difficult in modern EVs anymore. The biggest challenge is that (with only a couple of exceptions), most can't drive 300 miles at 70 to 80 mph without making at least a short charging stop. As you noted, even in my "slow charging" Bolt EV with a new battery, that would only be a 15 to 20 minute stop. So the problem really is, finding an ideally located charger along the way. That being said, I think the E-GMP cars right now have a couple advantages. The first is that their stop can always be 10 to 15 minutes, even when conditions are bad and their range is reduced by 40% to 50%. The second is that they still charge well, even on lower power chargers. E-GMP cars can still pull 115+ kW on "125 kW" chargers and ~170 kW on "150 kW" chargers. In fact, E-GMP cars will charge faster to 80% on a 150 kW CCS charger than a Tesla Model 3/Y can on a V3 Supercharger. That offers a lot of flexibility on a road trip.

[@plugandplayEV]

Cheers, Eric. I've actually been surprised how well the Ioniq 5 manages its charging, even in the knowledge that optimal 10-80% times would be impressive. It seems to be quick regardless of when you stop, though obviously the lower % the better still applies. Sometimes the charge locations don't work out that way and we're charging at 30-40%, but it will still hammer out an excellent session up to 80-90% and get us back on the road in 10-20 minutes.

[@ab-tf5fl]

As someone who drives a Bolt, the difference charging speed was striking. The Ioniq maintained 180 kW nearly to 80%, and even at 90%, it was still matching the Bolt's maximum charge rate of 50 kW. The catch, of course, is price. A faster-charging car is definitely worth paying something more for, but not 2X more. Look forward to the future, when even the cheap EVs all charge as fast as the Ioniq does.

[@skyemalcolm]

The base model ID.4 might be the cheapest fast charging new EV in the US. Might be fun to make a graph of MSRP + fees = out the door price on one axis and on the other axis the average sustained charge rate or maybe just the best estimate of 10-70 or 10-80% SOC. That should show you the best rod tripping value cars at a variety of prices ranges. Hint: the Rivian and Lightning would fare quite badly on that graph, but then again so would the Bolt, unless you bought one used in 2019-20 for under $15k as some were going for.

[@plugandplayEV]

That's pretty much the crux: how much is high-end DCFC worth paying for? Of course, there are several other areas in which the I5 sees off the Bolt/LEAF segment of EVs, from storage space to performance and extras like V2L, but on the core EV trifecta of range/efficiency/charge speed, they're much closer. Equal on range (RWD I5 notwithstanding), Bolt wins efficiency, I5 wins on charging. There's a lot laying at the door of the upcoming Equinox EV. If it truly hits the $30K price point with 150kW+ fast charging and similar efficiency to the Bolt, it's a home run.

[@skyemalcolm]

@@plugandplayEV yeah and you know after I wrote the comment about graphing charging time I pondered it more and frankly you’d perhaps just want to consider doing what I did as a thought experiment using ABRP (A Better Route Planner). If you plug in a long trip (everyone has a favorite) and then do what if scenarios with these cheaper but slower charging cars vs the more expensive and perhaps faster charging cars you’ll see perhaps some gains in overall trip time decreased. But it’s going to be interesting that for many modern EVs with water cooled batteries you’re probably going to be showing a feasible trip for any of the options you feed ABRP. So it begs the question: how much is faster charging worth to you? And indeed if you add in the recent EV pickups you’ll probably find they aren’t all that quick as road trippers on multi day journeys vs a Bolt and certainly the trucks can’t keep up with even an ID.4 in all likelihood.

[@Matt-dx3wo]

@@skyemalcolm I do this on ABRP all the time :-)

[@BioniqBob]

A few more benefits with the IONIQ 5 vs a Bolt.

[@macculver]

Another great video. Wow, it makes sense to check all EA chargers for a free vend!

[@plugandplayEV]

Cheers, Mac!

[@rogerahlgren2833]

Thanks for continuing to delve into the Ioniq’s particulars. Keeping our newly swapped to EUV very long term while waiting a bit for this next generation to sort itself out before replacing our ICE for traveling is continuing to look like a good strategy.

[@plugandplayEV]

I think so, Roger. Although there's a lot of promise in the new tech, it continues to trickle closer to the $50K mark with price rises. It should feed down into the next wave of EV releases, so by late 2024/early 2025 we'll see 150-200kW charging at the $30K price point. Chevy is definitely going to play a big role there with the Equinox EV and whatever else they have in that area.

[@rogerahlgren2833]

@@plugandplayEV I’m very interested to see if 1-2 years is enough time to see any potential detrimental effects of the much faster charging most mfgs are embracing. At the same time, I think it’s probably mandatory in order to be competitive.

[@brianriebedriveselectric]

Nice quick overview! Even though the 10-80 is optimal, I was still surprised at how quickly it got to 100%.

[@plugandplayEV]

Yeah, 45 minutes is only a little over a fast food rest stop, so knowing you'll be well above 80% state of charge when returning to the car, regardless of SOC when plugging in, takes a lot of thought out of travel stops...other than needing to get back to move the car, perhaps!

[@tommckinney1489]

Thanks for the data. I like the graph format that you presented. I'm envious of the new EA stations. I charged at an EA station in Mobile, AL last week. There were four stations, two of which were down. The other two were in use so I had to wait. Surprisingly, EA did not answer the phone when I called to ask for a reset on the two that were down.

[@plugandplayEV]

Thanks, Tom, I'll try to integrate more graphs into the charging tests. I'm seeing a ramp in the activity around site upgrades, although it does seem to be limited to more populous areas and a lot of activity here in the Northeast. My instinct is that EA will eventually attempt to upgrade any station that doesn't have the newer Signet units (not gen 4 but new compared to the 2018-2020 installs). It's going to take a while, but hopefully a majority of the earlier sites will be completed by the middle of next year.

[@dennislyon5412]

Now, the Bolt charges ok from the bottom to 50 or so percent as long as it’s not freezing out. That gives you about 1/2 hour for a lunch and restroom break when traveling - an ok gap, although your charger spacing can only be about 100 miles, which is a deterrent for that car with widely spaced chargers. With this GMP, you take that 30 minute timespan and reduce it by 1/3 or more, plus you’re able to get 20% more power into the larger battery in that shorter amount of time - wow! That 20 minute session would seem to put you in a rush when you’re used to Bolt charge timing, but I’d think it’s about perfect for a travel car. Knowing that a gas stop is so fast that it’s usually done as a serial event if food or restroom stop is involved - I ask: does charging need to be any faster than this?

[@michaellippmann4474]

Yes Dennis you are right...our Kona charges somewhat faster than the Bolt (peak of about 77kw) which is nice but the Ioniq5 is at a whole different level mainly due to 800V battery architecture and a really good BMS taking care of it. We find ours just fine for road trips and just finished a return from Florida, total round trip of about 2800 miles. All good and the charging stops where about 150 or so miles apart so a nice break from the drive. Excellent driving vehicle...BUT the Ioniq5 would be just that much better plus more room. Mike 🇨🇦

[@plugandplayEV]

I don't think charging needs to be much faster, with the possible exception of trucks and large EVs with 100kWh+ packs. Assessing charging by % changes when you have a significantly larger pack, of course, but assuming the BMS could just crank the charge rate up to 200-210kW for something like the proposed IONIQ 7, a bigger pack could still see similar results. Overall, I do think we'll have to get sessions down to 10 minutes or so for a majority of the pack before some gas drivers will be convinced. But ~20 minutes wins over more than enough new buyers to purchase all the EVs coming through 2025/26, so it's something of a moot point. Next, I think the pendulum swings back to range... can we get almost every EV on sale to reliably do 300+ miles on a single charge? With current charging tech, that moves adoption forward another step, I think.

[@michaellippmann4474]

@@plugandplayEV Yeah Steve you are pretty much right on with your thoughts...we are completely satisfied with the Kona and the charging speed is definately adequate. My wife even commented that the rest stops every 150 miles or so we're perfect and I even found myself feeling way more relaxed than when roadtripping a ICE vehicle. This being said it works for us but I know lots of friends who swear even 10 minutes to refuel is too slow and they even feel 300 miles is not enough! I just love the Ioniq5 and the charging speed is insane...do not see where it needs to be any higher than that....but I am sure it eventually will be. We are 100% sure that going electric was a great choice for us with the insane amount of driving we usually do. Not to mention the fact that electric vehicles are far superior in drive quality to most ICE vehicles (quieter, less maintenance, lower operating cost, etc) electrics at this point would serve most people very well - especially if you are able to home charge. Anyway...have a great weekend and Thank you for your videos! Mike 🇨🇦

[@ouch1011]

This video sort of confirms that the BMS and the decisions it makes regarding charging speed seem quite complex. It’s like it knows what speed to charge at in order to keep temperatures in the happy range, even if that means charging at a slower speed deeper into the pack. Honestly, I’m perfectly happy with the car charging 175kw until almost 80% vs a higher peak and an earlier taper. That said, find even the 0-100% charging times to be deeply impressive on the egmp cars. 45 minutes for a full charge is faster than many cars can do 10-80%. Now, if we could just get Hyundai to push the battery preconditioning software update so we could get these impressive charging times year-round.

[@plugandplayEV]

I think you're spot on with this and previous comments re. complexity. I would say it's just a very well-designed approach to charging that means the owner can rely on the BMS to get them a solid charge at almost any power rate (regardless of 150 or 350kW hardware) and any state of charge. The obvious exception right now is the cold weather charging on 2022 RWD and early AWD models... hopefully they come through with pre-conditioning en route to fast chargers, as other markets have already received, for those early owners whose I5s can receive it.

[@williamhonig686]

Great, Steve. Love this and all your work. Can you share or tell us the source for your PID file used with Torque Pro? You have captured a great snapshot of what happens during charging!

[@plugandplayEV]

Thanks, William! Planning a full video on this once I get the right template and setup, but here's the original source of the PIDs I used: github.com/Esprit1st/Hyundai-Ioniq-5-Torque-Pro-PIDs

[@williamhonig686]

@@plugandplayEV It appears the latest Torque Pro, version 1.12.100 now allows import and export of dashboards. Might I get you to share your fantastic charge monitoring dash here or in some GitHub? The import/export is found: Torque Pro start screen > Realtime Info > (from any dashboard displayed) Settings icon > Layout Settings > Import or Export Layout. You give a file name and Torque saves them as that *name*.dash in Internal Storage > Android > data > org.prowl.torque > files > dashboards (BTW, I use Astro file manager which I like for working on Android OS). I'm guessing, but would love to confirm, that if you export your charging dash, I can add easily on my phone and be good.

[@robertbelasco3859]

Enjoyed the video. What percent of ccs dc fast chargers do you estimate function correctly on the initial try? EA or others? Thanks

[@Lynyrd_Evnyrd]

For my part, around 60-80% of the time on CCS/Chademo chargers and around 90% to 95% of the time on Superchargers. I have only had a few experiences where I couldn’t charge at all and those were all at FreeWire chargers. I have better reliability than most since I can charge on Chademo or CCS (have both adapters). I have run into chargers where the CCS cable has failed but the Chademo plug still worked on both Francis and EV-Go.

[@newscoulomb3705]

It depends a lot on the network, but also, different EVs and different payment methods also affect outcomes. In my experience, after being familiar with the network, car, and payment options, public CCS activations on the first try are easily >95%.

[@skyemalcolm]

EA was 90% first plug in great charge on my OH to Az and back to OH road trip but that needed a look on PlugShare first to confirm if there were any janky stations to avoid. And once you pull into the EA site before pulling up to the charger you need to check the EA app and see what’s available there. Perfect? No. But not bad and charging wasn’t the thing that annoyed me about EA. It’s the crappy Walmarts that are tiresome and hard to get in and out of vs a gas station. And then there are the even crappier Sam’s Clubs which are closed when I travel (5 am to 10 am).

[@michaellippmann4474]

We just got home last night from our road trip to Florida and back (4600km - 2875miles) we encountered only 1 station where there where multiple chargers down and people waiting. Yes it was EA but we found all the others we stopped at to be just fine. The easiest ones to use seemed to be FPL (Florida Power and Light) but EA was no issue. Totally stress free trip with no range anxiety at all. We have piled on 14,000km (8750miles) since owning the Kona since August 24 and the car has performed flawlessly. Back to Florida in February and then next October we have a trip planned to Vegas, California, up the West coast back to Canada then across Canada back home to Ontario....that one will be about 10,000km. So if there are any issues traveling we will find them! 😁 Mike 🇨🇦

[@plugandplayEV]

For us, it's almost always above 85-90% on every trip, regardless of EA or other networks. But we do tend to keep an eye on the poorly rated locations and look at the units working well ahead of time, so that almost certainly factors into the success rate.

[@piker32]

What is the advertised max charging rate of the Hyundai Ioniq? Is it 350kW like I've seen on some of the Ioniq's literature or is it 250kW which is what the Kia EV6 is stated at?

[@plugandplayEV]

250kW is closer to the mark. Max we've seen in real world fast charging is 238kW. Manufacturers often confuse the issue by stating the kW rating of the charging hardware needed to achieve the EV's full power, which in the case of the Ioniq 5 USA/Electrify America is the 350kW units.

[@valeriecowez3655]

Just tried the newly installed battery preconditionning on my ioniq 5 here in belgium and achieved 180kw peak at 5° Celcius !

[@plugandplayEV]

Love to hear it, thanks Valerie! Hope we can see the same results in North America as winter comes on 🤞

[@agoogler1887]

What app program are you using on the phone ?

[@plugandplayEV]

It's called Torque Pro, available for Android devices. Apple users report success with alternatives like CarScanner and Engine Link.

[@W4rH4wkXX]

Steve please install this fast charger system into my Bolt ..... thanks 🤓🤣🤣

[@plugandplayEV]

We've been bombarding GM with that request for about four years now.... it would take every ounce of optimism I have to believe they'll listen!

[@Adam-kv2dh]

Still cost like 25 dollars to charge this thing.. as demand goes up prices will continue to increase.. give it ten years and it will probs cost 50-75 dollars to charge this thing

[@plugandplayEV]

Incorrect. We have complimentary charging for three years.

[@OfficalGordoTurtle]

You didnt precondition the battery that is why you got 160-170 charging cap, it doesnt like charging anything in 60 degrees

[@plugandplayEV]

Preconditioning wasn't an option on this model until late December 2023 in the US.

[@Matt-dx3wo]

Fast!

[@plugandplayEV]

For sure. Glad we got a late-autumn warm snap... it wouldn't look like this in freezing weather without the pre-conditioning, unfortunately!

[@michnay-nay]

the faster the battery charge the less battery life. look at tesla history

[@plugandplayEV]

There will be a trade off in power vs longevity, for sure, but the exact impact is unknown at this point. Battery management counts for a great deal, as slow charging yet degraded early LEAF packs with no active management demonstrate, and the e-GMP platform has effective pack cooling from what we've seen.