I Almost Stopped Playing Homeworld 3 Because of the Tutorial

Homeworld 3 has one of the worst tutorials I have ever played. It might even be #1.
Fortunately, if you ignore the tutorial and go straight to the campaign it's fucking AWESOME! The first few missions act as an amazing tutorial too!
Never really had that experience lol
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[@ZhangHe2369]

I think there is a major misunderstanding that this game makes in thinking that a tutorial is an encyclopedia that needs to be separate from the main game instead of the part of the game that informs you enough to interact and start playing.

[@kilbeam99]

Well said. The way the game keeps prompting the player with articles of info is rather jarring. And as Day9 said, there's a complete lack of context. The voice acting is decent, but it's just a guy telling you what you can do. It lacks personality.

[@jakeeb2441]

Yeah, 10 minutes in and this feels like the online training you have to complete before starting a job.

[@elfinfluff]

I would love to see Homeworld 1's story/premise blow Sean's mind. It's a banger.

[@WolfA4]

Personally I can't believe Day9 never got to play the original HW, really missed out on that one.

[@Lonewanderer6666]

Honorable mention Homeworld: cataclysm

[@JimmyStruthers-lb3sn]

Overrated

[@GyleCast]

Day you really missed out on some amazing story telling with the homeworld saga. 1, 2 and deserts have all been excellent. i advise you to checkout some of the lore videos floating around that do a full run down on the story which would get you up to date.

[@synthetic240]

Jumping into the third game of a story-driven series seems like a weird choice. I've heard there's a pdf with a lore dump in it that comes with the game. Anyway, good to see you on other channels Gyle. Love, a patron.

[@isaacrobinson4759]

Cataclysm was amazing too!

[@GyleCast]

@@synthetic240 Thanks for the support synthetic :)

[@kylemills9192]

There's literally a lore video called History of Homeworld in the game that covers everything except Cataclysm.

[@ZFPAkula]

None of the Homeworld games had good tutorials, in fact they all had rather bad ones. Why? Because the first 2-3 missions in the storyline campaign was the real tutorial. It's just a quirk that's been with the series since 1999.

[@Cogbyrn]

This is like doing all the fighting game tutorials before you step foot in the game: a million details you won't remember firehosed at you in rapid succession in an environment that doesn't teach you how to actually play, just what all the systems are. Absolutely on board with Day9 on this one, if you are going to have a tut, progressively teach mechanics in the context of a mission with something going on.

[@Kageniru]

Sean, I've been waiting for you to fall in love with Homeworld since I was watching Funday Mondays. I knew it was so much of the stuff you love. You'd probably appreciate it more if you found time to get the remastered editions of 1 and 2. DoK is also great and if you still haven't had enough Cataclysm or 'Emergence' is amazing too. (It's less directly related to 1, 2 and 3 otherwise I'dve recommended it alongside the others.) Welcome to the Homeworld community at last!

[@EnderSword]

This really reminds me of Star Wars: Rebellion, from like 1998, the space combat with the fighters from carriers and stuff

[@sheildingepicness]

If you like that, I highly recommend Empire at War and its active modding community. Old game with amazing ship combat and cool rts style battles, while the map is a little ugly and can be a little hard to get a grip on

[@dokasamurp9826]

I would love to see you play Homeworld 1 and/or 2 and make comparisons about the tutorials :D

[@micahorr8669]

You can take the Sean out of StarCraft, but turns out you can't the the StarCraft out of Sean.

[@eduardoserpa1682]

The amount of dark, empty space always kept me from clicking with the Homeworld main series, but it is pretty cool that they let you move in 3D space so freely and see every little thing from up close if you want. It's a shame the tutorial immediately threw all of it in your face without context. Edit: ok, the opening mission of the campaign looks absolutely beautiful. Love the terrain and the clouds.

[@HellecticMojo]

the survivalist isolation is the appeal though. Being the last of the kind alone in the universe.

[@hajkie]

What i liked about homeworld 2 though, is that the amount of detail on the skybox around you. I could never tell if that was 3d paintings or whatever but they looked beautiful. Made it look like you were actually in a huge space wreck despite being only empty 3d space.

[@mgbon2]

I'm in the same boat. Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak might be up your alley.

[@synthetic240]

@@hajkie It's when you went to sensor view and realized you were in the middle of a void within a megastructure hundreds of km wide that you truly understand the scale of what you're dealing with.

[@zbigniew2628]

It is a poop wrapped in a nice paper...

[@xtieburn]

Maybe Ive got some rose tinted lenses on but I dont remember Homeworld 1 being nearly as clunky as this.

[@dokasamurp9826]

I've played Homeworld 1, 1.5, 2, and now 3, and I can feel your frustration deep down lol. I may have to rebind some (a lot of) controls Edit: oh god and now I'm at the part where you're trying to rebind it but it's a contextual order >< this is so awful hahaha. Maybe we can unbind camera controls from right click, move them to middle mouse, then unbind middle mouse focus because we already have that on F?

[@Calmputer]

Hold down SHIFT for LUDICROUS SPEED!

[@BeckertP]

I watched this while playing Helldivers 2, and was very confused. Turns out the voice actor who did Isaac Paktu in Homeworld 3 is also the Democracy Officer standing by the mission map in HD2.

[@mightguy911]

Yeah and what a terrible pick

[@CaptJazz869]

Day9 you gotta try playing Homeworld 1, one of the best games I've ever played

[@3r1c3]

HW1 campaign and portal are tied for my favorite gaming experiences Ive had

[@novitrix9671]

I really loved watching your experience with this game!!! Love you Day9 hope you continue with this game, seems to be worthy of your attentions! Very hype!

[@mst4705]

Kind of sad you didn't play previous Homeworlds.

[@Dagobah359]

Homeworld 1 came out when gaming was new and new genres and interfaces were being developed all the time. When we first learned these controls with H1, every game was "what is this genre and how do these controls work?". Once learned, it was just intuitive and for those who've played Homeworld before, this tutorial is more of a reminder and familiarizing us with the new visual style of the GUI.

[@Supercris25]

I can't believe they took out Chicken Hammering in homeworld 3. What a terrible design decision.

[@isaacrobinson4759]

Tbf, chicken hammering got abused in multiplayer, and the devs didn't nerf the strategy fast enough to salvage the burgeoning competitive scene.

[@MetroCubic]

So cool to see you take a look at Homeworld Day9!

[@zbigniew2628]

It is not Homeworld... It is SpaceBloob. Do not waste time fir it, better go play Homeworld 1 for great experience and unforgettable memories.

[@FonWin]

Can't wait for the Advanced Tutorial Stream.!!!11!!!11!

[@RogunK]

You should play the remastered version of the first game. The story is epic! I played it back when it first came out when I was a teen and loved the remastered version as well. The tutorial is similar to the first game, except it is built into the first mission of the game and it feels like it's part of the story.

[@evshrug]

I can’t. I bought the remaster when it came out, and then just a few months later Apple dropped support for 32-bit games. Dunno why a company would remaster something without making it run on current systems, surely the Devs could have seen that most of the industry had moved on to 64-bit…

[@evshrug]

However, I did play the first few missions. The fact that the tutorial is tied in to the first mission and the action of getting attacked helps provide the tutorial that Sean is wishing for… and maybe I don’t remember that well, but I think there were less pause screens with text boxes that just dump a ton of info on you.

[@Jayy997]

They ruined the classic gameplay with the remaster. No idea why anyone would recommend the remaster

[@RogunK]

@@Jayy997 Because I played both and loved both.

[@kirktown2046]

@@Jayy997 Agreed, everything in the remastered package, including the "legacy" versions (which made engine changes with serious consequences), is fundamentally flawed. I really can't recommend it for the true homeworld experience. They just couldn't figure everything out and the difficulty/tuning of the originals is unmatched. It's a shame because the remaster got close in some places, even if they couldn't replicate the dogfight AI properly, but they decided to add this automatic difficulty scaling between missions that made the difficulty unpleasantly and tediously high if you dared to build up a max size fleet or mine too many resources... Thoughtless level scaling is always garbage, HW1 and 2 had ~hand curated~ difficulty.

[@LOLHoneybadger]

We need a continuation of this please

[@julianlora_]

I just couldn't get into this because of the convoluted controls and UI. The game feels like a chore to learn.

[@ThadanMusic]

35:00 Minute Mark, Day9 just discovered Disney's next adventure for gaming.

[@evshrug]

It’s the dark souls of camera movement. This game is Dark Controls.

[@nothing3065]

I've had more issues with actual Dark Souls camera than this game lol

[@evshrug]

@@nothing3065Fair enough, but my joke is also an observation of the steep learning curve Day[9] experienced to get a handle on all the different perspective controls and 3D unit movement commands.

[@Cathexis256]

Will you be continuing to play? Was hoping there'd be a part 2 to this!

[@Moochewmoo]

Man... Its wild because I feel like the gold standard for shit tutorials was set by Rockstar with GTA 5 and Red Dead 2. Those two games are just sooooo much worse at hand holding while pretending they aren't. Its god awful.

[@SayaMulti]

I guess at least in those games you are actually doing things. The RDR2 tutorial is a fucking slog, but it beats reading a manual in my opinion.

[@hssammy]

I got stuck in the part where you have to use your function keys, I have no function keys on my keyboard, help!

[@ivano8]

This is me on every tutorial! "Press " OK I've pressed the button. Nothing happens. Great. Now I have to guess what the developer wanted to really say. Yeah. I want to play this game but I it always makes it so difficult to get into it. Also. Sometimes I will spend time learning all the commands. The have ten minutes to play the actual game...Then 3 months go by. And I have no idea how to play the game. All I remember is how long the tutorial is.

[@ConfusedRaccoon]

Man, I played the shit outta homeworld 2. Never played an RTS before that. Tried Deserts of Kharak the other week and couldn't get through the tutorial. I must be getting old.

[@espresseaux]

Day9TV, please check out Nebulous: Fleet Command. It's like The Expanse meets Homeworld 2. Naval combat in space, with lots of multiplayer! There's also a modded-in singleplayer mission series.

[@Sarcasmo220]

I’ve never played Homeworld proper, but I did play a mod that changed it to Battlestar Galactica ships and that was pretty fun.

[@LostConjugate]

Here I am in 2024 thinking has it really been 15 years since we last had a good RTS game released?

[@HZAres]

the game is a throwback, seems they kept the 90s tutorial too

[@kael13]

The Homeworld 2 tutorial was better than this I’m sure.

[@kilbeam99]

The tutorial looks so bad, while the campaign seems amazing! I dont understand why they have that tutorial in there.

[@vividpsychosis8222]

Come on day 9, its 2024, lets start playing in and uploading 4k videos.

[@8thlvlMage]

These are all straight from his streams, which aren't 4k. If you've been a fan long enough to feel entitled to tell him what to do, then you would understand why he doesn't.

[@FireEatingNinja]

I agree that they screwed the pooch on that tutorial, however I'd argue that the pacing of the intro cinematic into gameplay was very strong and I feel that it'd be weaker if you got stuck in a tutorial after that solid intro.

[@TheNotoriousJTS]

personally i thought the chicken hammering was pretty straightforward

[@matisiekierka6105]

6 minutes in, he is already hugely mad 😂

[@maxiu..]

Looks like they haven't fixed anything from the horribly received demo a couple months ago ?

[@adius256]

From what I heard, it sounds like the changes might have been to cut down on development time. People tend to assume you can just port over AI and combat mechanics from a really old game, but I feel like more often than not that isn't possible and you have to either reinvent the wheel or just use something that looks vaguely wheel-shaped from a distance and hope most people won't notice or won't care too much

[@mauliksharma]

We need a full play-through.

[@aaabatteries9948]

Bad tutorials are the worst, instant turn off.

[@krullet3560]

Only thing worse is unskippable tutorials. And if you get both unskippable and bad tutorial it's a refund for me.

[@ollllj]

the "game" does not stop interrupting itself.

[@pop9095]

What did you see as wrong with the tutorial?

[@mindhackz]

@@pop9095Too much talk, not enough show. Overloading menus with instructions for 8 hot keys instead of slowly introducing them over the course of a 20-30 minute tutorial. The key to tutorials is show, don’t tell. If you find yourself making a single tutorial menu with 8 hot keys and what they do and presenting that to the player, you are way off track. Information presented needs to be spread out and delivered as an answer when a player reaches a moment of “how do I do that?” Instead this game tries to preempt that and that’s also a mistake, presenting information before it is needed. It’s a silly approach Starting in this large of an area is also a huge mistake. A tutorial for a game like this should be in phases, going from small to larger areas to manage. It takes away the exciting opportunity of seeing yourself having more and more to manage. Really drops the ball

[@drakhoon]

@@mindhackz honestly if i remember correctly, they have had to redesign every tutorial for the homeworld series, except for cataclysm/emergence and deserts of kharak. For desert of Kharak it was just a standard but well done RTS. All the space based one had to do a redesign, because like Day 9 said they never gave any context. However Cataclsym/Emergence had a tutorial that gave context to everything.

[@Jaylock980]

Between the boring tutorial, Day9s annoyance, a game i know nothing about and ad spamming this is a hard video to watch. Good thing he's funny.

[@stubsmckenzie]

The control scheme is nightmare fuel, multiple overlapping commands with no rhyme or reason.

[@user-zh2os5jt6l]

Still waiting for more Heroes of Storm videos and maybe even casting some Sc1 vs sc2 matches

[@Psiclone]

When they had the little demo a while back I alt-f4'd the game after the tutorial.

[@Ptik0bj]

You should check out Homeworld 1. There are great texture and quality of life improvements mods for it. But the tutorial is much better, a bit cinematic but more immersive. One of my fondest memory. 99 was a great year, Matrix and Homeworld released (and many more ofc).

[@matisiekierka6105]

I don’t know why they wouldn’t be clever enough to simply incorporate the tutorial into the game. So that it doesn’t feel like you aren’t even allowed to play as soon as you start. Trust in the gamer’s ability to figure this shit out…

[@DrLife121]

When this game was available for demo in the next fest, I remember being *incredibly* disappointed in this game based on issues encountered just in the tutorial. I've played HW 1,2, and DoK. It's not great that after the delay they seemingly did nothing to make the tutorial better.

[@MrJoebodee]

Been trying to play the homeworld games for years and just cant... doesnt hook me, enjoyed watching you play it though!

[@Lucky7th7450]

I see that Sean streamed his reaction to a podcast

[@ollllj]

Lets make an rts, where size, speed and range do not matter at all.

[@aselus]

Hope you keep playing it

[@SheyD78]

I've heard some unfavourable comparisons to the previous 3 games (Kharak doesn't count). Hope it's better than they said.

[@estebanjvidal]

Can't believe they recorded one voice actor feeling the need to tell that while the game is paused, units will not carry out orders and objectives will not be completed... And these types of tutorials with dialog windows with lots of shortcuts before even issuing a single command are the worst.

[@nime1575]

On my mark. 3, 2, 1 - Oh, hi Mark.

[@sofastrophe828]

Another reason to go back to V rising lol

[@masterSageHarpuia]

Of anyone how has Day9 not played homeworld?

[@bartz0rt928]

He basically played nothing but Brood War until like 2010.

[@trumpet43samurai]

Love the Vshojo shirt lmao

[@TheSuperColonel]

You could play HW remastered with player patch 2.3

[@petejams7340]

Liking the new look

[@Awesomesausages]

So this is a game about controlling the camera, huh? Interesting concept.

[@golasticus]

I'd like to think that they separated the tutorials from the intro sequence of the game so that by the time they show the story beats, the cinematics and what not, you already have an idea what to do and the story could progress smoothly. I do agree that the tutorial is hella dull though, I would've stopped playing if that were me.

[@ianmcewan8851]

I think this vid is now required viewing for anyone building a tutorial. @Day9TV if you get urge play Homeworld 1. ... and it was released in late 1999.

[@breadnl569]

I can't stand this game. They keep calling the mothership khar-kushan but all I can hear is "pickle" in french.

[@townbug]

just waiting for him in inevitably play animal well

[@JunacCRO]

you should go play homeworld 2 like right now.

[@Jayy997]

This game is an embarrassment to the Homeworld franchise. It's visually and sonically beautiful but lacking severely in everything else. Please play the original Homeworld (classic not remastered) to see what you've been missing

[@kael13]

Couldn’t agree with day9 more. Why don’t devs just pay him a small fee to check out their games. He can tell in 5 minutes whether something is just garbage.

[@roadrunnerj]

A shopping list of games ruined by greediness and live service gaming most game now a buggy mess they care more about milking gamers than caring more about the games. I bet this video is awesome I'm unable to watch it though I hear problems with homeworld 3

[@mitchellohair7549]

Deserts of Kharak is the best of the Homeworld games imo

[@nothing3065]

You might wanna play on hard mode later

[@kimbosan1]

I love homeworld 1 & 2 and cataclysm. Waited for the release but after a few hours i refunded :( I don't really like the direction of story bits, atmosphere feels off, like it's a fanmade game. Gameplay is strange, i've seen very bad pathfinding around obstacles, where my fighters were coming around the corner of a wall to headbutt turrets in 3rd mission (lol pathfinding issues in 3d space game), and control of the fleet somehow feels not responsive, sensor view is not clear at all It's probably okayish rts and i might play it later when it will be on sale and some issues with optimisation and gameplay will be fixed, but right now i'm dissapointed

[@hyperteleXii]

Why is there an "off the map" in an infinite empty space? 😂

[@strategystuff5080]

1:14:25 Tasteless!? My god :D

[@Novacification]

The story seems pretty bad. Well, the dialogue is terrible. I guess the story could get better.

[@alexanderstanfield5845]

Homeworld 1 had a really slow boring tutorial. But atleast the game is hard and complicated so its kind of warranted.

[@kalin666]

Even OG Homeworld had a SUPER dry tutorial. Reminded me more of a military briefing than a game tutorial. Looks like they biased WAY too far towards Sim and away from Game.

[@hiddenswan]

Unfortunately, Homeworld is a cash grab ever since the Remaster. Obviously, it's been a different developer since the original was made in 1999 and nobody seems to understand the slow, cinematic, tactical vibe that made it alluring and quintessentially Homeworld. RIP Relic. The story has also been basically the same one rehashed over and over since the original and has never carried the same weight.

[@HellecticMojo]

Man compared to HW2's tutorial, this is awful. "Hiigara is burning" compared to this

[@novitrix9671]

Lol Twitch chat misinterpreted your remarks as a CONCLUSIVE DEFINITIVE REVIEW, instead of first impressions 😅

[@Leppter]

Homeworld was never a fun game to actually play, it was just unbelievably satisfying to witness the perfectly visualized space combat. Nothing was more enjoyable than watching your 5 destroyers let loose full broadsides on the enemy capital ships. I have heard HW3's 'story' is only 6 hours long and that's basically the whole game for me. I might skip it, not to mention this looks almost exactly the same as HW2 without adding anything new.

[@dannnyweeeks]

I'll never play this game purely because I'd have to endure that tutorial a second time

[@RMHutchings]

it's very sad to me that this is someone's first experience of homeworld. A game that was so good, unique and interesting. I hope the game is better than the tutorial or Sean gives the original a go instead of this pale imitation.

[@quineloe]

I'm so sad the game is bad :( I played homeworld in 1999 and was blown away.

[@DaxRaider]

The game is not bad o_O the tutorial is crap but the game is good

[@evotech]

@@DaxRaider 45% steam reviews... hmm

[@squattingheads]

@@DaxRaider Gets my vote as being bad

[@TheSweetSpirit]

@@DaxRaider besides speed and graphic quality, it’s worse than the previous Homeworld games in every way. Gameplay (removed mechanics such as ballistic accuracy, ship counters like how capitals counter everything now, even less interesting smallcraft dogfighting than hw2 which was already a downgrade from hw1, supposedly I’ve heard armor in hw3 is not directional so the 3D space is pointless…) Story (won’t spoil it for those who want to enjoy. But, it’s not something people have enjoyed and is the biggest complaint people have) Extraneous stuff (denuvo, arbitration agreement, data collection) It’s at least a bad Homeworld game. On its own it’s probably fine.

[@josephreynolds2401]

​​@@evotech I also go along with popular opinion without any sense for critique or taste. This comment checks out.

[@PetersaberHD]

0:12 ehh... I almost stopped watching this VOD because of this awful intro.

[@PetersaberHD]

It's hard not to feel contextless when you're playing the 5th game in the series without ever looking at the previous ones...

[@kalin666]

AO = "Area of Operation" and yes they sling military jargon because this is SERIOUS

[@iitsajackal6181]

Oh also, there are too many controls for the same thing. Crazy control overlap

[@ragnarok400]

I would try to play without tactical pause as you can't pause in war games or skirmish

[@sum1337]

tbh all the homeworld tuto were crap xD

[@iitsajackal6181]

Oh and you cant remove units from a control group.

[@kirktown2046]

Day9 -- You love RTS... Heed these words: HW3, despite some great aesthetics, is ~dogshit~ in game systems and control and they DO NOT do HW justice. Please find the time to play HW 1 and/or 2, especially if you've got the gusto to play the original non-remastered ones or modded. I was so frustrated with this game... Wanted a refund but I palyed 6 hours before I realized the hotkeys have stupidity baked in. I hope the game fails for this reason alone, so x amount of people aren't condemned to learn another garbage control scheme doomed to die.

[@bytoadynolastname6149]

I have not played Homeworld 1, I have not played Homeworld 2. I have not played them in my house. I have not played them with a mouse.

[@iitsajackal6181]

The 3d movement, while a cool concept, was the nail in the coffin for my refund request. For clarification, what follows is not an objective statement, just my opinion. The method that is used for 3d movement was fine for me, the radius and then elevation setting. What made me so mad was that because of the perspective, I could never get my units to go where I wanted them to go with just one movement order. Writing this out, I guess it was really just the camera itself more than anything else that drove me away from the game. I love the setting and story though!

[@claudianreyn4529]

You haven't played any of the previous games and say this is the best? 🤦‍♂️