"I Am A Stalker" Men Being Autistic .. Let's Talk About Autistic Men and Stalking

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i want to clarify that autistic people are more frequently the victim than the perpetrator. this is not to villianize autistic men or boys. its just to point out this pattern that is specifically in autistic men and boys that we need to talk about- and ofc it's weird and uncomfy to talk about so ill do it lo and handle the repercussions from ppl misunderstanding me/ my miscommunication etc.
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Related: i am a stalker, autism in boys, autistic men, autism, autism diagnosis, Paige layle, paigelayle, paigelayle tiktok, tiktok videos, autistic, autistiktok, autistok, autism spectrum disorder, Aspergers, Aspergers syndrome, autism in girls, dsm, autistic kid, autism mom, autism family, autism speaks, autism awareness, autism acceptance

[@realpaigelayle]

Click here ttps://bit.ly/3L6dDdp (bit.ly/3L6dDdp) to take the quiz and use my code PAIGELAYLE for 50% off your first order! i cant wait for you guys to try it out :)

[@ramooyeido1772]

❤🌷 Beautiful words, worth reposting, from time to time: We did not see God, but with the mind/commonsense we came to know Him- we knew Him in the sense that the evidence indicated His existence, so we became certain of His existence -, and even the ones who deny his existence are a proof of His existence. also, from the Creator’s patience with those who disbelieve in Him and disobey Him, we see his forbearance, and His generosity towards even those who don't believe in him and disobey him, Glory be to Him. ❤ Beautiful words: It is said that the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family, said, for teaching us positive open mindedness ((wisdom-/truth/knowledge/all that is good and true- It is what the believer is looking for, wherever he finds it, he shall take it)), and ((Seek knowledge even in China)) even though China was not a Muslim country, and the words of Al-Shafi’i My opinion/doctrine It is correct, but it may bear some errors, and the opinion / doctrine of others is more likely to be wrong, but it may be right sometimes. & beautiful words are the words of the Qur’an that should be understood and applied: (And no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another) meaning don't generalize don't judge a person and take revenge from him even though he did not do anything, just because you want to take revenge from one of that other person relatives whom did a very bad horrible thing, or because of a number of people from that other person tribe for example who done a bad thing, or you try to take revenge from innocent people who got the same religion or sect or ethnic background, and this is nice teaching too from the Quran (If any of the polytheists seek your protection, then protect him). 🌷 A beautiful prayer: Oh God, stop us from your forbidden deeds ❤🌷 Oh God, forgive us for all our past sins and shortcomings, and prevent us from that for the rest of our lives. And beautiful words from the Prophet Muhammad or Imam Ali, peace be upon them both: ((If you learn a craft, you are safe from poverty)) 🌷❤ Important and beautiful words..for reflection and contemplation: Even if we suppose that the Companions, i.e. the people who saw the Prophet, were all mountains, despite the conflict that occurred between them, it remains that the Prophet said ((The parable of the people of my household among you is like the parable of Noah's ark. Whoever boards it is saved, and whoever lags behind drowns and perishes)) And Noah's son went to a mountain and left the ark, and Noah's son drowned. We must not give up adhering to those who are perfect from the family of the Prophet. but also we should not consider them as gods, and at the same time we should never underestimate them, and we should not think that others are equal to them, the best thing is the middle way.

[@amandamandamands]

You should probably pin this so that people find it easily

[@sharptoothtrex4486]

Not all special needs men are like that.

[@amandamandamands]

@@sharptoothtrex4486 Dude we really don't need a variation of not all men

[@sharptoothtrex4486]

@@amandamandamands Are you telling me women can be this way also?

[@Senfree]

As an autistic girl, I was once followed home by an autistic boy. I did not go outside for days after. And it made me uncomfortable around other autistic people for a while, which sucks. This was before I knew I had autism, and it made me think people who were autistic would always be like that. It took me years to shake that Instinct. So, yes, teach your boys (and girls) boundaries!

[@jackjones46]

I had a friend who went through the same thing. We were both at a special education school and she kept getting assaulted and stalked by a boy in our year. The headmistress called her and the boy into her office, and then told my friend the boy couldn’t help it because of his autism. Not a lot was done about it, and he continued doing it for another few years, even though people tried to scare him out of doing it.

[@immanuelsule5251]

@@jackjones46 unreal

[@kellharris2491]

He can't help it? Sounds like he is a danger to people around him. So lock him up.

[@laurengails1fan285]

@@kellharris2491 usually nothing is ever done to autistic boys that's why it's better to stay away from them. It's either the mother or teachers that give boys a free pass to do whatever, and never be held accountable. i learned that at a really young age... it really sucks

[@sunshinemcwane6288]

@@jackjones46 this is really disturbing because when this kid grows up, never taught boundaries, ok what's gonna happen when he rapes someone? Does anyone think the prison system is gonna "be nice" to an autistic person? "Oh they can't help it" I really don't think the prison system is gonna care. These parents and principals and stuff, they're really doing a disservice to autistic boys for NOT teaching them. It's gonna be alot harder latter on as an adult when the inappropriate behavior escalates. People in prison system are NOT going to have any sympathy.

[@sunnisideupplz3920]

I used to be really creeped out by autistic boys when I was a kid. I felt really bad, because I was trying to be really open and accepting, but they wouldn't stop trespassing my boundaries. And if you complained to the parents, they would make you feel bad for 'singling the out'. Thank you for talking about this!

[@fancydeer]

it sounds like the parents didn't want to take responsibility for raising their kids and instead pushed their insecurities and failures onto you. I hope you don't feel bad about the situation, the boys were kids who weren't being taught better by the adults around them and you all were just kids doing the best you could with the tools you were given.

[@HaleyMary]

I feel this way about men who have autism, asperger's and even those with William's syndrome. I'm sorry if that sounds mean, but they often touch people without asking them first, like lightly tapping the shoulder. Some of us like our personal space and it just feels uncomfortable.

[@fancydeer]

@@HaleyMary I think it's a part of my neurodivergence that I strongly dislike being touched I can't stand sitting close to people or being in tight spaces or anything so your feelings are valid. we as a society need to teach others not to touch people in general imo shaking hands should not be a polite way to greet someone either

[@brookesoto123]

Well said!

[@BlindmanPepperspray]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@himenyx153 This! I am a AuDHD man. I too was labeled “high functioning” because of my math and history knowledge during that time and was in those “normal” classes and even had honors class early on. While at school when I was a kid. I would do well until middle school (because of masking) and at home. It was just a mess of misunderstandings, ignorance, and uncontrolled emotions. When I was a adolescent in my middle school days that had no friends and still has none due to having very specific interests and poor social skills. I’m not going to pretend I was always innocent. I did bad things and didn’t know about other peoples boundaries. Part of it could be my mother babying me, neglecting me when I had issues at school, and not teaching me important stuff like boundaries, along with my brother constantly fighting me for little reasons and not helping because “Thats what brothers do, get over it”. She used to not allow me to close my door for privacy and alone time I needed until I stand up to her and kept rebelling to the point she doesn’t care anymore when I was almost a teen. She also doesn’t close her door and still today. At times when I get into trouble going into her room to ask something despite her NEVER closing her door for privacy. Id always ask why she doesn’t close her door when needed. Every time. I either get no response or “why do you care so much”. It’s so annoying and doesn’t make sense without getting a answer to something as harmless as a door… When Puberty started to come and I’m not understanding how to control a certain mans part that makes the brain do weird things. I was desperate to get the girls attention while being oblivious to passing the boundaries because of me not knowing to be able to control a mans part. Like being too close, staring, and following them at times. It took a certain amount of detentions and write ups till I somewhat understand what boundaries are. Unfortunately it was too late and I already had a bad reputation of being labeled a creep by the girls and a softie by the boys. One time. I was minding my own business walking to the boys bathroom. When one of the girls saw me walking passed the girls the bathroom heading to the boys bathroom. One of them shouted “he is in the girls bathroom, get out”. At the time. I didn’t know how to ignore a false situations like this. While I still wasn’t in the girls bathroom. I was in front of it telling them “I’m not, stop lying”. It didn’t take long till the principal came and brought me to the principals office and call my mother to suspend me for the first time despite me begging for video evidence. Ofc the principal didn’t listen, my mother didn’t listen and took away my special interests, and those “victims” got away with it. I Had a meltdown, then a shutdown. Misunderstanding’s and ignorance of the people around me really screwed me up in my school years. While I am very slowly understanding myself since the Middle School mess. Despite me being lucky to have a diagnosis of Autism and ADHD before I was a adult. I never understood much or thought it was a big deal because people usually “joke” about Autism and ADHD and I just assumed it was just labels so I masked most of the time till recently I found out how much it affected me and played a huge roll in my struggles. If you guys wanted. I could also share my limited experience dealing with a girl (possibly autistic due to a huge interest) while I was a Junior while she was a senior in a class and looking back, she used to get into my boundaries like pulling “my” desk close every time when the teacher said “pick your partners” and even pulled my hair once. I learned a lot from that before she graduated and was early too because of the lockdown.

[@thoughtfuldevil6069]

I am an autistic man. I was stalked by an autistic woman to the point where I had to get a restraining order. The process leading up to it, including the year of stalking, was absolutely traumatizing. Thanks for covering this.

[@mattjack3983]

Unfortunately it was covered in a way that frames this as a problem that primarily occurs with autistic men and boys, and does very little to acknowledge that this is an issue that also occurs in autistic women and girls. Women and girls in general, both neurotypical and neurodivergent alike, are given passes and excused for this kind of behavior FAR MORE OFTEN than men and boys. I have seen women and girls on the spectrum cross boundaries countless times, and it will go completely ignored. And if the person whose boundaries were crossed tries to speak up, especially if that person is a man or boy, they will be criticized and shamed for speaking up.

[@Stfguac]

​​@@mattjack3983 no offence, if you are a man looking person, you are in a position of power as defined by the society we live in. So maybe chill out with the "there's loads of women stalkers" rhetoric a little because there's really not. Everyone can be a stalker, it's not a competition, but just because you've seen examples of women crossing boundaries, it does not mean there's loads. Society makes sure of that

[@mattjack3983]

@@Stfguac You might want to reread my comment, because that's not even close to what I said. But what I said is 100% accurate and true, and I stand by it nonetheless. So, yeah, work on your reading comprehension just a bit, because you got that all completely wrong.

[@Catlily5]

One of my autistic female friends was a borderline stalker when she was younger. It can be a problem. But where is the data that women stalk more than men? I will believe it when I see it.

[@Catlily5]

​@@mattjack3983 I meant to direct my last post to you but it didn't work. I am asking you, where is the data showing women stalk more than men?

[@taylorfrink1182]

IM SO HAPPY YOU MENTIONED THE BPD LINK. i was misdiagnosed as bpd and then a psychiatric evaluator caught that it was in fact autism and adhd and ptsd. it made my whole life make sense. but how intense i get with romantic partners is exactly why i got misdiagnosed but people dont account for how intense we autistic women can feel and how thus we can act in relationships/breakups and also makes us a target for abusive partners

[@jrichard88]

Also misdiagnosed with BPD a few years before my autism diagnosis and later PTSD and ADHD self-diagnoses. It seems to be a common pattern.

[@kiera6326]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS My sister we’ve suspected has been neurodivergent for a while. But she was told that there was absolutely no way she had autism or adhd because she made eye contact for like three seconds. She becomes really obsessive over friends and people and thinks in extremes so I suggested BPD but the more I observe her the more I think she’s just autistic. I don’t want to argue with professionals but it really seems like they’ve just disregarded her, possibly because she’s a girl

[@spencerwilmore13579]

yes omg this is exactly why i’ve forced myself to be single for over a year because I’m tired of feeling bad for loving so much harder than anyone i’ve ever met😂🫶🏽🫶🏽🫶🏽

[@lunar686]

It’s likely not technically a misdiagnosis of BPD. The problem with all the ‘personality’ disorders within thediagnostic criteria is that a diagnosis is only given if ‘not better explained by another condition’, and all these ‘personality’ disorders are better explained by the trauma disorders,which you are also much more susceptible to if you have underlying neurodivergency. There’s also one specific ability unique to BPD being the rapid detection of negative emotional affect in others (research looking at eye track pattern facial recognition is really interesting on this as it requires a measurable change in neurophysiology) and given that the only other group of people that can do this are women with autism with high masking abilities, it’s likely that BPD isn’t a seperate diagnosis, but a possible outcome of underlying neurodivergency

[@Zhuria]

I'm currently being misdiagnosed as BPD, I'm 99.999999% sure of it!! I don't have an official autism diagnosis (love to be AFAB autistic and no one ever notices) but it's obvious as hell, and I do have ADHD and just got my CPTSD diagnosis (also very obvious) from the same dude insisting BPD is the root of all my problems. When it's obviously the autism that caused the trauma that is the root of ALL my mental health disorders. It's so frustrating because he sees me for like half an hour every 4 months, based it all on my answer to the question "do you have mood swings" and I don't know how to convince him that it just doesn't fit me at all. I know he's the expert but uughh it's infuriating. I'm trying to get disability support and I'm worried they see the BPD diagnosis and just turn me away. I just want my freaking autism diagnosis but it's so hard to get diagnosed as an adult and I just don't understand why. :(

[@KPaul7]

I am an autistic man and I'm glad I learned boundaries. Im sure I crossed the line in the learning process. I was so shy and nervous that those mistakes were very traumatizing. I wasn't diagnosed until last year and I'm almost 43. Being raised by 4 sisters, a mom and a very distant brother probably helped. I plan on teaching my 8 year old autistic son boundaries and respect. This is a tough subject but it needs to be talked about more. Thank you for taking the time to do this video ❤

[@jmwoods190]

I (mildly autistic) also crossed the line several times when I was figuring out the boundaries, though I grew up in a psychologically abusive family in which my parents not only never taught me about such things, but also stifled my dating life & financial independence. Thus I had to figure it out with my psychologists and real-life experience i.e. learning it the hard way. I've definitely improved, but the memories of some of my biggest blunders in the learning process still haunt me at times.

[@KPaul7]

@@seraphimme thank you and I'm glad my son knows at such a young age. I can't express just how hard it is to be a late diagnosed autistic and ADHD. The easiest thing to tell friends and family is its like the grieving process. Witch most people know take time to figure things out. This channel and others have helped me in more ways than they know. Orion Kelly and Page are my go too and we share alot of the same issues.

[@KPaul7]

@@jmwoods190 well put and me as well. Very dysfunctional family life and I some of those memories as well. The hard part is to not live in the past and be the person I know I am. Still working on it!!!

[@helderoliveira2994]

Was your bro mean to you?

[@KPaul7]

@@helderoliveira2994 yes he was, he was bi-polar and in our adult hood we trusted no one more then each other. He pass away 5 years ago. My step father's were worst.

[@MoosieFilms]

"They're autistic, so they don't know" then TEACH them. Its so important to teach people and not just let people get away with things just because they're neurodivergent. They CAN understand, but nobody is teaching them the rules as directly as they should be

[@ouwebrood497]

That's part of the story. Lot of rules change without notice.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

What are the rules then?

[@Purplegoddess777]

This is a very important topic. I have seen this happening a lot in autism specific groups that are mixed gender. Some men think they are "too awkward" to get what they want and respect boundaries at the same time. Then they pull the autism card. Unfortunately that works a lot of the time. Infantilizing grown men needs to stop.

[@mattjack3983]

The same thing can be said for women and girls. This isn't something that is unique to men and boys on the autism spectrum. It is about as prevalent amongst women and girls as well. Men and boys do get forgiven and excused for this kind of behavior. But with women and girls this kind of behavior is completely overlooked or ignored altogether. Much the same way that women who engage in domestic violence against their boyfriends or husbands gets overlooked or ignored. Infantilizing grown women also needs to stop.

[@sofialotussen]

I can tell you, from experience, that this kind of behaviour isn't at all overlooked in women.

[@sonicboy5]

@@sofialotussen from "your " experience yes. but your experience is realative to you. There are alot more cases of it being overlooked and ignored in my experience as well. Where i live there is a very clear double standard between men and women. But i have also been placees where that double standard does not exist. Lets all keep an open mind and not think in absolutes.

[@rnbsteenstar]

​@@sofialotussenwomen are often seen as crazy or evil when they do it.

[@laurengails1fan285]

​@@mattjack3983 nope the same literally can't be said, im so tired of people acting like women and men are the same when we aren't

[@pbkathleen]

dropped everything to watch this, idk the show you’re talking about but i have experience with an autistic man who i dated in the past who (while he didn’t stalk me) didn’t understand boundaries and was SO clingy to the point of being scary. we’d be on the phone for 20-30 hours at a time because i was genuinely scared to hang up on him because of how he would react to being apart he would even ask me to call him while i was working, he wouldn’t respect my no’s to s3xual acts and would pout and cry and guilt me until i gave in (even when my TODDLER NIECE WAS IN THE SAME ROOM), and if i ever pulled away or didn’t want to be touched he would do the guilt thing and be like “you don’t love me do you?” (i truly didn’t but i forced myself to think i did bc he was my first irl relationship) for a long time after we broke up i kept thinking “he doesn’t know better, he’s autistic” but then i learned I’M autistic and I KNOW BETTER so HE should be able to as well! but i still put a LOT of blame on his mom too because she was the kind of Autism Mom (TM) who wouldn’t teach him boundaries and such because “he doesn’t know better :((“ and she would baby him if he ended up facing consequences for his actions the worst part is that he didn’t learn anything from out break up, i have TWO friends who ended up dating/almost dating him and with both of them i said “this is the cold hard truth about what happened with us, i’m not going to stop you if you want to keep going, but please be careful with him because he will do this” and both times i got told “well he’s not doing that now, he’s really nice and respectful” but then when they got into a more serious relationship/situationship they came to me saying “you were right, as soon as we got more serious he started doing these things” which means HE KNOWS not to do those things in order to gain their trust but once he feels they’re stuck with him he DROPS it all which is disgusting and i hate that his behavior is so easily brushed off because he’s autistic. (sorry this ended up being so much longer than i expected if anyone read this far thank you for your time)

[@hermionesings]

He sounds narcissistic and manipulative

[@fancydeer]

this explains incels to a point tbh

[@shanesorensen7878]

Some of us on the spectrum especially males experience abuse in childhood probably more girls because we have had higher expectations or ABA has made into stalkers because we are diagnosed and targeted for early intervention which results in trauma. That’s another factor we may need to account in how many of these stalkers have had ABA done on them or have childhood trauma.

[@mattjack3983]

@@shanesorensen7878 Well when it comes to things like stalking, or violating someone's personal boundaries, especially to the degree that's described in this comment post, being on the autism spectrum does not excuse it.

[@Stfguac]

​​​@@shanesorensen7878 funnily enough, I found out a lot of incels are autistic

[@EvelynJoy]

This is SO TRUE. My son is 3 years old and autistic and I have taught him not to bite or push, now I'm teaching him not to slap me in the face, lol. Autistic people can be taught not to hurt others.

[@luchirimoya]

Teaching him not to slap you in the face 😭😭 I hope you're okay lol

[@EvelynJoy]

I'm okay, I taught him to high five instead.

[@Ameliamaemay1990]

@@EvelynJoyne of the boys I work with tries to slap and if you redirect to a high five he knows to not. He’s non-verbal so he doesn’t say “oh sorry” or anything but you can tell he’s like “yeah you caught me…” haha Also to be clear because he is non-verbal he will scratch or smack when he wants to get someone’s attention so it’s definitely not to harm but he’s learning it’s harming ppl and it’s getting a ton better

[@nate2838]

@@Ameliamaemay1990 The critical part is you are thinking through the MOTIVATION behind the action and can help him learn more appropriate ways to achieve the intended goal. It is literally impossible to express the damage that is done when there is no-one to help bridge that gap between "what I have" and "what works". The first 10 years of my life my mother helped me with that. After she died, I was on my own with it. Thank you for looking beyond the actions to the intent. Very few people ever do. And fewer still are willing to help bridge the gap.

[@nate2838]

@@Ameliamaemay1990 Going to ask an obvious question. Has he been taught to clap, snap fingers, etc when he wants someone's attention? Could be taught to clap in certain patterns for certain levels of urgency or to indicate what the need is.

[@vestahahamashups4597]

There was an autistic guy at my highschool who would sexually harass girls, he touched himself in class looking at a friend of mine. He got no consequences. Me and multiple friends of mine are also autistic and don’t do that…people need to be held accountable

[@immanuelsule5251]

Mhmmm 100% and pray he gets registered as a sex offender.

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

That's terrible

[@CorridorOfMirrorsRemixes]

Yeah, that’s definitely not Autism. That thing is something else entirely. I’m so sorry.

[@Person-ef4xj]

I think sometimes problems that seem like autism things can actually be a trauma thing as I think sometimes neurotypicals will often tend to ignore boundaries of autistic children because neurotypicals tend to consider those boundaries as invalid. In other words I think society in some cases may accidentally teach autistic people that it's ok to violate boundaries instead of just not teaching them about boundaries.

[@kirstyriver7689]

This.

[@felinoidrose]

i agree, this isnt entirely related to what youre saying but it irritates me whenever people are like "ohh nobody knows why its so common for depression/anxiety/whatever to be comorbid with autism thats so weird" as if its not because of the trauma we are subjected to constantly just for existing..

[@Vxjx15]

This is so astute!

[@Animallovercomedian]

I never thought of this but what a thoughtful realization

[@brittanyevans4848]

Yes! I have autism & PTSD so I can relate. I remember adults think it was funny to tickle me even though I hate being touched. It boggles my mind why this was seen as ok.

[@ellengrace2367]

About the dance studio thing: I'm autistic and adhd and convinced that part of the reason no one diagnosed me as a kid was that ballet and creative movement were really good stabilizers. Think about it: creative movement is basically socially acceptable stimming and ballet is hella structured, good for learning proprioception, and very focused on doing things "right" where you basically do the same thing over and over for years. When I stopped dancing my mental health went way downhill

[@willowisp9150]

Same

[@mattjack3983]

Yeah but Paige saying that most people who dance are neurodivergent, and that most neurotypical people aren't interested in dance is a pretty big assumption. I agree that for those who are neurodivergent dance is an awesome and effective stabilizer, and that neurodivergent people would benefit greatly from it and find quite a bit of enjoyment in it. But to say that most neurotypicals aren't usually interested or find enjoyment in dancing is simply not true at all.

[@Jaseyrae213]

I feel the same way. I started Irish dance at age three. I spent literally all of the years from 3-18 practicing dances everywhere I went, with my hands if I couldn’t use my feet, and practicing cross and turnout while walking lol. And the proprioception… I didn’t realize how clumsy I was until I stopped dancing

[@danika9411]

​@@mattjack3983 I agree fully with this!

[@ellew8599]

i’ve never thought of it that way but dance was absolutely a socially acceptable stim for me! i have ADHD and was a ballet dancer for 10+ yrs. the number of times i started randomly doing things i knew from ballet (tendus, frappés, just standing in posse or on relevé, etc.) when i was understimulated or bored are… countless lol

[@deltasceptile7805]

I have a serious guilt complex because of some stalkerish behaviors I had when I was a kid and teenager. Now I am terrified of making women feel uncomfortable because it's still a challenge for me to pick up on their social cues. I may think that they are perfectly fine with me, but then I try to make a move and I totally misread their intentions. It's a constant struggle, and I've become hyper aware of how my actions make other people feel.

[@salmonandsoup]

I feel you. I guess the only recourse is asking every once in a while to double-check, because while the onus shouldn't be on us to read the situation like a neurotypical can, we still should keep other people in mind in a healthy manner. Even then it's still tough.

[@thetonytaye]

Fucking hell. This. So much.

[@val.628]

I think what can help is to be more straightforward with people about your feelings the whole time, and ask questions. "I feel like I might be interested in you in a romantic way, do you see me that way too?" or "Would you be interested in going on a date with me at some point?" It's great to get to know people, but if you keep running into issues where you thought someone was interested in you romantically and it turns out they weren't, it's best to just be up front from the beginning of your interactions with them. Expressing interest and even dating doesn't have to be some massive step you need to wait for, and it can actually be super helpful to just establish what you're looking for (romance) from the get-go. Also this may not apply to you/you may already be aware of this, but the context and situation in which you express interest or ask someone out is really important. Never ask someone out while they are at work or otherwise required to continue interacting with you because it makes it difficult for them to feel safe saying no or doing anything they think might upset you. I would avoid asking people out or expressing interest for the first time in front of other people in general, if you can do it entirely in private, that's best, but at least do it in a private conversation between just the two of you (even if it is in a somewhat public place). So basically, my advice - be up front about your feelings and intentions; ask questions about how they feel, what they want, and what they're comfortable with; and make sure not to put them in a situation where they may feel pressured to say yes or unsafe saying no.

[@ouwebrood497]

Just visit sex workers if that's possible. Was a solution for me.

[@ThirrinDiamond]

​@@ouwebrood497holy shit no what the fuck

[@audreymeach9826]

Just a gentle reminder that BPD shouldn’t be diagnosed before 18 because your personality isn’t fully formed which is likely why you felt like it applied. Teens are just big balls of emotions 😂. That said I see all the time as a therapist people confusing ASD and BPD and CPTSD. Weird how ASD is over diagnosed in men and BPD is over diagnosed in women mysterious 😒

[@tablescissors]

There are many maladies that affect one sex more than another though.

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

Dsm says it only can be diagnosed after 18

[@lilritual202]

I am an adult autistic and used to work closely with a teenage girl on the spectrum. This girl began to stalk me on the internet, save every photo of me, and read every blog and social media post I've ever posted. At first I thought it was harmless, perhaps I had become one of her special interests. The problem was that I am trans (afab) non-binary and the photos and blogs she was obsessing over were of me pre-transition, and were torture to look at. Unfortunately she started to make collages of photos of me presenting femme and sending them to me. She would call me off the hook almost every day (giving her my phone number was a huge mistake). I attempted to set boundaries, explain to her why that was not appropriate to do to a trans person (I was out to her and her parents). She repeated the same behaviors over and over even after I requested her to stop. I eventually had to resort to blocking her on all accounts. I bring this up, because I allowed her to cross my boundaries way too many times, due to the fact that she was neurodivergent and disabled (like myself). I now know that is no excuse for bad behaviors. I think I saw some of her in my own inner child and wanted to forgive her, in essence forgiving myself. However, I realized that if I was her and wished to be forgiven, I would need to earn that trust and commit to respecting others' boundaries. Such a valuable lesson! Thank you for this video. PS I also mention this story to demonstrate that this phenomenon is not just amongst men/boys. All gender identities can engage in this type of behavior.

[@val.628]

Thank you for sharing this. We often think we're doing people a kindness by forgiving their behavior and continuing to interact with them in a friendly way, but unfortunately if we let things go too easily, even if we do tell someone to stop, if we keep giving them what they want (friendship, attention, affection) no matter what they do, they learn that there are no real consequences for their behavior. They know that if they do the bad or inappropriate thing, they may get scolded, but ultimately it's worth it because they enjoy doing the bad thing and it isn't keeping them from getting the things they want. Boundaries need to be firm, and consequences need to be real (and consistent).

[@Onnarashi]

It's almost as if both men and women can do bad things! Crazy!

[@Buggy_The_Spy_69]

Lil, hypothetically say you were not trans, would you still be weirded out or offended that they collected information like that, because I do that for a lot of my school staff.

[@lilritual202]

@@Buggy_The_Spy_69 yes I would still be weirded out and unconsenting. Saving every photo of myself without my consent is very inappropriate. She would find clothes I was wearing in the photos and find them somehow to purchase online, then send me photos of her finds. She would zoom into photos of me with my iPod visible (these were photos from 2007-2012) and make playlists of music I was listening to as a teen. None of this is appropriate or related to my trans identity.

[@riarandomo]

I think respectful use of the information about other people that can be found on the internet would be such, such a valuable school subject. Honestly could put together years of class materials about it. It's amazing we haven't caught up yet that this is a thing everyone needs to be taught (and I include myself in this)

[@JMP9891]

I’m autistic and I knew better than to do anything inappropriate at school. Once had a roommate in college that was also autistic, and every time he did something bad, he would always use his autism as an excuse.

[@Senfree]

If you have to use your autism as an excuse, you know better already. (Edit: There's a difference between using it as an excuse and as an explanation. It's an excuse if you do something that you know is wrong, and then saying it's because you're autistic. I am autistic myself.)

[@StarkRG]

I say this quite a lot: Autism (or ADHD, or depression, PTSD, etc) might be an explanation for your actions, but not an excuse. The person harmed might forgive you for the transgression based on that explanation, but that still doesn't make it an excuse. It still means you did wrong and need to do better in the future.

[@Person-ef4xj]

Did he change his behavior after doing something wrong and being explained what he did wrong? Sometimes being autistic can make it so that the communication style is such that an explanation can sound like something that's being used as an excuse to not change. I know you implied he did bad things multiple times, but were they all similar things each time?

[@picachugirl2036]

His parents are the fault, but once hes an adult he needs to shape up his own act. Im worried cause my mom is the same kind of parent that leads to "oh I cant help it, im DisAbleD". And shes kinda s3xist about it. So my all us kiddos are disabled in some way, mostly cause trauma, but then add in some neurodivergence for extra spice. And we all have adhd. However whenever my little brother acts like a total sh!t, my mom excuses it "oh hes adhd" meanwhile curses my poor lil sister out. Ive moved out cause ef that im 21 and i dont need to deal with a narcissist 24/7. But like my lil bro used to be so sweet and now hes the most OBNOXIOUS little sh!t, like no one wants to he around him. We cant even yell at him to stop without my mom getting up in a huff, and I know hes just a kid, but adhd is common in my family and by that age, they have learned to respect others. But nah he can literally scream in my ear or hit my teen sister and get a PASS AND ITS INFURIATING AND HES GONNA GROW UP TO BE AN ACTUAL POS IF MY MOTHER KEEPS ACTING THIS STUPID 😡 Sorry for the vent, it just makes me really angry, like I know its not good for my lil bro to have no boundaries cause hes going to end up where no one will tolerate his presence and thats lonely af. And I just want him to grow up and be moderately well adjusted, but if I critique my mother she goes on a tirade about how im a selfish b!tch. Im hoping the world teaches him, since she cant, but its going to be more painful for him :/

[@StarkRG]

@@picachugirl2036 The best thing your could probably do for him is not to cut him off the way In guessing you have with your mom (and good riddance). Be someone he can look up to and trust without letting him get away with shit in your presence. If you hear about something awful he's done without you being there don't take it out on him like it was something he'd done with you around, but make it known that you think it's wrong and that you wouldn't stand for it if you were a witness. Let him live out the shittiness of home and school life while showing him a better alternative. He may never turn out well, but, unless he's shown alternate ways of living and behaving, he definitely won't.

[@coupdeforce]

It's great how you made a distinction between people who intentionally don't care and people who choose to learn from mistakes and not repeat unwanted behaviors intentionally.

[@amediumlife]

I want to ask you a question. You do not have to answer. I am a woman engineer. There is a guy who started following me on all my socials and sending me messages and then deleting them. I ignored the messages because I was not interested. On my Instagram which is for friends and family mostly, I post more about society and less about technology. I am a woman of color. He changed his profile picture to match mine and was constantly messaging me. Then he thought something I wrote in an Instagram story was personally about him when it was not. I told him my Instagram is for friends and family. And if someone gets triggered by a statement maybe that calls on self-reflection but I am going to put my account on private since I am uncomfortable with you reading my messages. Then I said no it was not personal. You are essentially a stranger and I am frustrated you took it personally. He would also continuously follow and unfollow me on all these social media accounts. I finally blocked him yesterday because it's the holidays. He then sends me a message on LinkedIn saying that he thought he read a tweet that I wanted people to follow me on Instagram (I never said that) and that I am overreacting. Again, since I am a woman of color. I noticed it's a specific type of white guy autistic man - usually in my field. The thing also is I am very conventionally attractive - very much so and he has the neckbeard look to be nice about it so I don't know why he was so aggressive in shooting his shot. I try hard not to come across as stuck up or a bitch because people do mischaracterize beautiful women and I care about empathy the most. But in doing so? It's opened me up to a few characters like him.

[@DarA-vh5zo]

I haven’t started the video yet but just wanted to say, I’m a person with ASD but I also started being s**ually, physically, and emotionally ab*sed at 2 years old and when on for so long that I was brainwashed, and didn’t know boundaries. Especially since my abusers were my brothers. (Im a girl) When I was in 9th grade I had a crush on this girl and i definitely crossed boundaries and made her uncomfortable, im sad to say.(not anything to the extent of stalking/r-word , etc.) just love notes, stares, things like that. There were other instances with ex girlfriends. My special interests were always people. I didn’t fully understand boundaries til I went to treatment. And I’m deeply ashamed of that, I didn’t mean to make anyone uncomfortable ever.

[@morpht9222]

You are allowed to forgive yourself. It's about working hard to heal, examining yourself and taking accountability. Don't blame yourself for the damage inflicted onto you. Don't hate yourself. The best version of yourself is the one that heals enough to love and accept it all, the good, the ugly, the wounded and the shamed. You have been through so much, you deserve credit for making it to treatment.

[@kikitauer]

Omg I am so sorry you went through those things 😔 Of course you didn't know boundaries, how could you? You were a child back then, and traumatized. I am so proud of you for learning this! The childhood and youth is the time to learn such things. We probably all did things we are not proud of then. Wishing you the best of luck 🍀💜

[@Catlily5]

I was traumatized a lot as well from a young age. Treatment helped me learn about boundaries too.

[@sunshinemcwane6288]

I'm so sorry. YOUR PARENTS should have taught you boundaries and stuff like that but if they were allowing your brothers to just do whatever they wanted then of course you know absolutely nothing about boundaries. As far as I know of I'm not on the spectrum, however, I've done cringe things I now regret and play over and over in my head and say, "I wish I didn't do that". I guess the only thing we can do is try to move forward and just don't do it again.

[@autisticcaroline2005]

Me too ! I was in similar situation and didn’t know about boundaries, so I definitely crossed them a few times ! I also had been sexually , physically, and emotionally abused as well !

[@cksmith13]

I have a friend who’s neurodivergent and we met because he used to follow me around in elementary school. I used to joke that he was a stalker because he was always following me. But over time I got to know him better. I realized that he just wanted a friend and didn’t know how to make one. He saw that I was nice and also didn’t have many friends and was like I’m gonna follow them. What you’re describing explains a lot of the behaviors he has shown over the years. He’s an amazing friend. I’m happy that he followed me around. I’m sad that he moved away because he used to always be at my side so I always had someone to talk to. But he does text me every day so I do still get to talk to him all the time.

[@BlindmanPepperspray]

Quite the unique experience compared to others experiences. I honestly think your experience that you shared is important for others and me to take note on. For someone you met that was following you a lot as long as they don't go far as hurting, touching without consent, or if you have social media. To spy on you on. It's always important to try to understand, especially if they are neurodivergent. Where these people are coming from and to ask why in a way they would understand and feel comfortable sharing. It would really help both you and the follower a lot. Especially the follower to be taught the importance of boundaries but also other stuff they need help in so they would understand and benefit in their own way. Of course you don't need to go out of the way and be friends with a follower after understanding and teaching them. Though it would be much better than doing nothing and ignoring, and excusing their behavior which would only makes things worse for everyone including the follower which could transform into a stalker and even an abuser. Yes there could still be those that will still keep going and this time be aware but doesn't care and make excuses to get away with it. Which is when you are dealing with a bad person. It would still be way less common than what I mentioned about not teaching them. It's honestly great to hear your experience which turned out to be a positive one because in most cases. The people that go as far as just following and maybe staring too aren't doing it based off hate and annoyance. It tends to be oblivious on understanding something they either haven't been taught by their family and anyone else or didn't know in a way they can understand how it can affect you and others.

[@cksmith13]

Those are some good points you brought up. I honestly have never considered the idea that there could’ve been a situation where it went negatively. I hundred percent think that people should always be given a chance to explain themselves and learn. But you are right in saying that you don’t have to become friends with the person. I got lucky but that doesn’t always happen. I’ve been watching Paige’s videos so that I can better understand my friend. I’ve realized overtime that I made fun of him for a lot of things that he didn’t know weren’t normal at the time. I’m surprised he decided to forgive me and continue hanging out with me after that. I’ve become a better person because he did that. Everyone is different and that’s what keeps life interesting. But yes if people reading this are in a similar situation if it is negative for you personally keep yourself safe. But if it’s not give the person a chance you could make a new friend.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

I’m sorry but I don’t think u can take this as an example. If elementary school is the same as what we call primary school in the UK where I’m from (4-11, in the county I’m from but it’s different in different counties but you start when your 4) then you are a kid who doesn’t know all about what social boundaries and stuff and sometimes do just want to have friends and play. I use to see non autistic kids do similar things. As for the phoning every day as an autistic man if I’m friends with someone then knowing how often to phone someone is difficult. For me it’s the other way round sometimes I’d go months before phoning someone I haven’t seen for a while again and sometimes I won’t. Basically he sounds like someone who’s never had any other friends and doesn’t want to lose the one he has, doesn’t know how many times he needs to talk to someone in order to avoid drifting apart, has no friends where he is and just wants someone to talk to. If you want him to phone you less then tell him, if I had a girlfriend (girlfriend girlfriend not just friend that’s a girl), I don’t but if I did I’d probably misjudge how many times to text and talk to her (probably end up being to many times) not because I’m a creep but because I genuinely have no idea how many times is the right amount in order to keep a relationship going but if she told me to phone less I’d phone her less. The reason he keeps phoning you is because you haven’t said anything. Just tell him how often you want him to talk to you and I’m sure he’ll respect that. I know your not girlfriend and boyfriend like in the example I gave but still. This doesn’t seem like stalking it seems more innocent than that.

[@LordWaterBottle]

​@@Tom-iv3ndOP finished off with "still get to talk to him all the time" so I think they're good with the frequency.

[@danielallan8061]

That's probably how many girls get stalked by ASD boys. They want a girlfriend, they just don't know what to say to get one. Or how to act.

[@janedoe0987]

I am late-diagnosed autistic as well as a survivor of stalking and sexual harassment at the hands of men who were neurodivergent, intellectually/developmentally disabled and/or various flavors of mentally ill. My concerns have repeatedly been dismissed with statements of "he's [insert neuropathy here], he doesn't know any better, he can't really hurt you". Thank you for making this video. This message really needs to be spread further.

[@sunshinemcwane6288]

I'm so so sorry. Having to be stalked/sexually harassed forever and having people gaslight you into believing "they can't help it"

[@danielallan8061]

ASD is never an excuse. Whenever I've made a social mistake that hurt someone, I've always felt bad and tried to correct that behavior. Some things are harder than others of course. I blame myself. People should not defend an ASD's bad behavior.

[@CajunCraft24]

Before my diagnosis, I had noticed autistic men seemed drawn to me. (Boundaries aren’t exactly my thing, especially back then) So we had this autistic friend that would just talk my face off and stand way too close and there was definitely ogling. The occasional creepy comment. He got a free pass for a long time until I noticed he was very capable of NOT doing that in front of my husband. He would literally stop immediately. This guy worked as a college professor and ended up losing 2 jobs for inappropriate behavior with female students. The 1st few times he was counseled by HR to NOT DO THAT, and he’d bitterly complain that he was being singled out by neurotypicals and that he couldn’t help it. I felt like he was using his autism as a get out of jail free card, but then I’d feel guilty for thinking that, like was I being ableist? No this guy was just an unapologetic prick that perved on young girls and happened to be autistic.

[@Flowersinurhair]

I think that’s where some people get hung up in these situations-they will think they are being ableist when thinking those things. I’ve seen situations where there is a very intelligent autistic person who is being allowed to continue inappropriate behavior and I’m just like so they can fully explain quantum physics but can’t understand that they shouldn’t be making sexual comments? Hmm 🤔 its not a lack of understanding but rather understanding that people will let them get away with it. It’s not fair for people to be given a pass, not only for others, but themselves as well. They may end up encountering the wrong person who will not take kindly to that. A wise woman once said “f*ck around and find out”.

[@Rabaheo]

the more girls I meet that are diagnosed BPD and autistic is starting to make me think BPD is just the reasonable reaction of being autistic and traumatized. I don't want to invalidate anyone who strongly identifies with BPD and thinks that treatment for BPD is working for them. But it's so hard to hear people passing this diagnosis mostly on behavior, without realizing some of those are coping mechanisms from the past trauma, or being triggered because of the past trauma. or even just hearing about the diagnostic criteria of persistent feelings of emptiness and struggle with solid identity and realizing that sounds a lot like struggle with masking and unmasking. It's a suspicious amount of overlap.

[@impepenane]

I also think many of the typical BPD behaviours dont match with the typical autism attachment to someone. Like paige said, she is still attached to people she broke up with. someone with BPD is way more prone to at first idealize someone and then start to hate them as soon as they get slightly hurt. Also, people with BPD are very emotionally manipulative, which isnt the case with autistic people.

[@ttransllucentt]

@@impepenane being emotionally manipulative isn't a criteria for having BPD, it's a poor coping mechanism that some (not all or even most) people with BPD end up falling back on as a result of struggling with severe emotional instability (which is the actual criteria) that doesn't get the proper intervention/therapy needed... please do not perpetuate negative stigmas by saying things like this (especially in regards to personality disorders as a whole, where this happens constantly) because many people with BPD are not emotionally manipulative at all, and people read stuff like this and get the wrong idea :/ a mental illness is never best represented or characterized by the most extreme and poorly treated cases of itself

[@kikitauer]

Absolutely not. I have ASD and ADHD and I have some trauma but I definitely don't have BPD. DBT can help autistic people or people with ADHD though.

[@Catlily5]

I was misdiagnosed with BPD and now am diagnosed with autism. I would say that there is overlap but they aren't the same thing. I think PTSD is a huge factor in BPD and many people with autism have PTSD and the two together (Autism and PTSD especially in women) can often look like BPD.

[@Catlily5]

I also should say that I think BPD is a sexist bullshit diagnosis. It doesn't need to exist. Most people with it could just be treated with much less stigma under a PTSD diagnosis.

[@CraftyVegan]

I wonder if we’ll see a drop in stalking behaviour now that there’s ABA awareness 🤔 Because ABA basically teaches that boundaries don’t matter and even if someone is showing displeasure or discomfort, you’re supposed to keep going to get what you want

[@shanesorensen7878]

I think a possibility is that some of us like myself and some other have had ABA therapy or have been sexually abused in child make it more likely to become stalkers.

[@rnbsteenstar]

Sometimes you have to just leave your door open in order to get what you want.

[@LordWaterBottle]

​@@shanesorensen7878to elaborate on this a bit, I think it is very common umongst autistic people to apply the Copernican Principle to their life and relationships, especially since we don't really come with the "normal" handbook by default. We actually have to methodically build up our understanding of relationships, bit by bit, from our lived experiences. A large portion of comments under Paige's most recent ABA video are basically "yeah I too was sexually abused and had no idea for years because ABA destroyed my ability to maintain personal boundaries or to properly understand how myself not consenting works or that I even could."

[@jays.3572]

As an autistic, i get totally steamed when i hear people saying things like "he doesn't know any better" or "he's stupid" about an autistic person. I also have an ability that i call truth seeing that i can use to see if someone is lying. In general I can relate to ALMOST everything you said. Good job!

[@garynaccarato4606]

Many people with autism can be taught not to harrass people and not to violate boundaries but maybe if someone with autism is bad off to the point where they literally cannot understand boundaries or that they really don't know any better then maybe perhaps in that case it's the parent or the care givers fault or problem but either way there should be consequences when crap like that happens and it shouldn't be treated as if it just didn't happen.

[@shanesorensen7878]

I think the real reason stalking actually happens is because our boundaries aren’t really respected and we can’t say no to tasks or neurotypical expectations and when our to say no is taken away we are taught that it’s okay to cross someone else’s boundaries.

[@autisticcaroline2005]

@@shanesorensen7878beautifully said !

[@EmMakesMusic123]

‘There is something about being raised a girl that makes you people pleaser’ wow that really resonates with me, this needs to be talked about more

[@wakeupandsmellthecoffee1626]

This is so important! Autistic men are not exempt from the “nice guy” fallacy just because they’re autistic. Your POV on this is so relevant and valid.

[@filipeflower]

What's that supposed to mean?

[@SartorialisticSavage65]

Idk I feel like autistic men are hated enough.

[@Seamannon]

​@@filipeflower You could just copy the phrase "the “nice guy” fallacy" from the comment above and google it... I'm not sure what you don't understand, the original comment seems very clear to me. Maybe I can help anyway... In my understanding, the nice guy fallacy is about people who project their fantasies onto a person of their choosing and then expect certain favors from that person, just because they were trying extra hard to be nice to that person. They often end up feeling entitled to another person's affection and push boundaries due to their fixation on a certain outcome. They also are unable to handle rejection respectfully, if their person of interest doesn't fit into their fantasy picture well enough, they tend to lash out and disrespect and blame the rejector for all sorts of things, trying to bring down their self-esteem. This behaviour should not be accepted or excused in anyone. It's not ok to push other people's boundaries or disrepect them just because they don't fit the mental picture of someone who never even communicated their expectations upfront, directly to the other person. Nobody is entitled to another person's affection or body in exchange for common decency, a few nice words or a surprise gift, autistic people included. Nobody should get a free pass from verbally or physically attacking another personn just because they are neurodivergent. Although, maybe people with tourettes shouldn't be immediately judged on their use of swearwords, but there's a big difference between their ticks and demeaning someone intentionally... I hope this helps. If something is still unclear, I'll do my best rephrase anything I've written or discuss any other point regarding this topic.

[@mich_elle_x]

@@Seamannon "Although, maybe people with tourettes shouldn't be immediately judged on their use of swearwords, but there's a big difference between their ticks and demeaning someone intentionally..." Situation when autistic people commit social errors perceived as "stalking" and when people with Tourettes swear something is. in fact, quite comparable. In both cases the person involved are not guilty of their actions and to blame them will be to oppress them. This does not mean that no actions should be taken to prevent such behavior, but they should include HELP and NEVER shaming or, worse, punishment.

[@Seamannon]

@@mich_elle_x I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you implying that stalking is just "natural" for autistic people or part of their condition? That sounds very strange to me, I'm not sure it's the same as swearing in Tourettes syndrome. 😅

[@fluffyworm]

I'm autistic and I have some obsessive thoughts about people. When I find someone intresting and fun I want to be their friend so badly and I think about them a lot. But I'm also very afraid of being rejected and called weirdo or smth.

[@zachfred958]

I’m a (moderately) autistic man, and men are taught, from a young age that to be in a relationship, that they must be persistent, not only does this come from a bottom up in the way that early in life boys will have to try very hard to gain attention from girls, (think cooties and things, children naturally separate themselves). This also comes from the top down as they grow older, boys are taught that the only reason they interact with girls is to attain their affection. Also through media the fictional characters are often in an uphill battle against both other male characters, but also having to persist through innumerable trials to ‘get the girl’ at the end. My point is that men are taught to persist after being told no, and women are taught to say no before saying yes, and this leads to the men who won’t take no for an answer, autistic or not. On that final point I am not sure if most stalkers are autistic, I will admit to considering doing some not good things, but I’ve never acted on the idea. I agree that any autistic person who has been raised well will not act on any creepy ideas they have.

[@shanesorensen7878]

The autistic men who are stalkers most likely have one other problems like trauma from NT abuse or improper respect for their boundaries by NT people. I also think abusive ABA practices are a factor too.

[@Catlily5]

The main thing is if someone says they want you to leave them alone. Then leave them alone. If they say not to touch them don't touch them. Don't follow someone around. It might hurt you very badly but you must leave them alone anyways.

[@miraberdiinjakobsen7731]

Its funny how I go in a school with only autistic kids and Paige talks like me, makes the faces like one of my friends and moves like my other friend. And that makes me feel really safe and peaceful that someone like us can make it so long in life❤

[@DisabledCursedPrince]

I'm an autistic trans man, and unfortunately I've been pressured, groomed, abused, and stalked by an ex who was autistic, so I gave him a pass.. but like as an adult who's just finding out I'm ALSO autistic, it made me realize all this. Also, as far as boundaries go, yeah, as a kid I used to like go to my best friend's house at 6am and wake her parents up because uh hello? That's MY best friend. And also I was living in a hoarder situation that really stressed me out bc my father is an autistic hoarder, so I felt like "her house is better, so I'll just kind of live there." And I wouldn't leave until her parents asked me to. And if she was unavailable, I'd go to a friend who probably honestly didn't even really think of me as much more than an acquaintance, but I'd be like "I feel like playing with velvet horses. Oh! I know! The horse girl has velvet horses!" And I'd show up very randomly and probably covered in mud from playing outside- and be like "Let's play horses!" And usually everyone would give me the STARE and she'd reluctantly play horses with me, then she'd start having fun and I'd be all like "See? You LIKE playing horses with me ^w^" but their parents would always be like >.> where is this kid's parents? Lol Also I had a frienemy who I'd chew on her Polly pockets to get back at her for being mean.....

[@imautisticnowwhat]

Definitely lots of talk of cross over with BPD and autism - particularly the PDA profile and particularly women. I mentioned it briefly in the video I just posted actually. I wouldn’t be surprised if BPD was neurodivergence plus trauma. Really interesting video! Thank you for always being so honest and vulnerable.

[@BluemoonAG]

agreed on the bpd/pda thing. I was diagnosed with bpd until i got my pda diagnosis and almost everyone I know who was diagnosed with bpd (which is a lot of people, considering I was in psychiatric programs and wards for over 6 years) have now been diagnosed with autism.

[@katherinevidmar7307]

As an autistic person it has always taken me years to get over heartbreak for real. Cuz love never dies ❤

[@mattjack3983]

Yeah but for some people love does die. And if a person has set boundaries, and doesn't want to see you, it's completely unacceptable to violate those boundaries with stalker-type behavior. I was in a relationship for several years with a girl who was later diagnosed with autism, and she stalked me for almost 3 years after I had broken up with her. And it made my life a living hell. Being man, it was very difficult for me to get anyone to take this stalking situation seriously too. Most people just laughed and thought it was funny, and it was very hard to make them understand how much turmoil and stress and disruption it caused in my life. She couldn't quite grasp that what she was doing was very wrong and completely unacceptable. She would say that I was the one causing her turmoil and stress by refusing to see her or talk to her, and that if I would just accept her love and be with her that she would not have to stalk me. It was a very bad situation and i honestly thought she was a lunatic at that point. When she was diagnosed with autism it all made more sense, but it didn't excuse anything she did. Boundaries must be respected, regardless of how you feel. And that's the whole point of the video.

[@katherinevidmar7307]

@MattJack thanks I got it. I always respected boundaries. Just because I was heartbroken I never became anything like a stalker. I'm a domestic violence lawyer, understand right and wrong

[@gonnfishy2987]

Xx

[@SeaFlower38]

I think that's normal when you were actually in love and dated for years. I think they did a study and on avg it takes about half the length of time u were in a relationship to fully get over a breakup. Obviously there will be exceptions in both extremes so some people will love someone forever, some people will get over it quick, medium speed, etc, and some never were in love. But yeah, just kuz we feel something shouldnt be taken as doing something to act on it.

[@gonnfishy2987]

@@SeaFlower38 I’ve just been thinking about this lately, maybe why this vid popped up. I cherish relationships, but they inevitably end. I have a rule, no friends, no contact, no nothing after breakup. It’s important because I literally spend the next year -> three years trying to process any damage or trauma or lasting admiration for this person. It’s perfectly reasonable. NTs may find it weird, it’s never differed over my lifetime. I have had about 3 relationships which were significant enough to count. I think i heard an nt expression, “You carrying the torch for _whoever_ “. Yeah well, it’s not a bad thing, it’s how I grow as a person and reconcile with the past

[@klhpensil21]

As an autistic mother of autistic boys, I'm so appreciative of this video. This is a topic that's basically always on my mind and very frequently discussed in our home. I know it can be a struggle to communicate with someone who communicates differently, but it IS possible, and communication struggles do not equal less intelligence.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

If the people around them don’t communicate in a way they can understand, how can they know what the other person’s boundaries are. Why can’t people just set their boundaries verbally, saying with words?

[@personneici2595]

My spouse has ASD and i felt it in my soul when you said the part about men with ASD needing to learn where they end and others begin. So much enmeshment and codependency that he's only just starting to acknowledge and work on. 😂

[@marksafe5463]

I try to avoid being with people in general. Not because I don’t want to socialize but because I become easily fatigued from participating in a social life. My last relationship suffered from this because the girl I was with suffered from boundary issues.

[@sinisterintelligence3568]

Thank you for this video. As a black male on the Spectrum, I recently had a bought with being a stalker-at least a very mild form of it (still not an excuse). I knew a girl from elementary school, and we were friends during that time. This was during the early 2000's and after that, we kind of moved apart (not by choice, but rather time). We rediscovered each other a couple years later (around 2019) and we became friends again and we followed each other on social media. We weren't "close" friends, but we're friends, nonetheless. Then, one day, I told her she was "sexy", and this REALLY freaked her out and for good reason. I continued to talk to her, but she clearly didn't want to have anything to do with me. Sometimes, I tried to communicate to her via Instagram, but she blocked me. Long story short, her boyfriend started to get mad over the matter (at least from what her mom told me) and we basically broke off contact. I then went further and messaged her job to apologize. (I thought this was more appropriate rather than me calling them) Still, it was creepy AF. I realized my mistake, but I know that that friendship has been ruined (even her mom has stopped talking to me. I think she has ADHD so it's not she was some perfect angel. Getting to your point of family trauma and autism, I couldn't agree more. As someone with autism, we are not taught the nuances of love, sex, and relationships because autistic men (and women) are often seen as too weird, socially aloof, or undeserving of women. I suffered this back when I was young. Being a black person on the spectrum in a black family was a hard and painful experience. My father and brother constantly belittled and tormented me for not conforming black and/or male stereotypes. (i.e., listing to rap and playing sports) At this time, my mom had died, and I was being raised by my dad. The torment followed me into high school as I had a staff member call me "a retard with no friends/social life" With the family element absent and lack or peers my age, and with the onset of puberty, my knowledge of romance and love was somewhat primal. I would simply go up to girls (a lot of them white, but that's just what I'm attracted to) and tap them on the shoulder and wave hi. Sometimes, I even followed them, and I would handle rejection very poorly, of course now I know that that's completely unacceptable. If you're not taught these social cues and norms, you're not going to learn. I'm also glad you brought up not making excuses because we are "autistic" and better still that it came out of the mouth of an autistic person TO another autistic person as it's more authentic and not patronizing. I don't know if and when I will find a girlfriend, but being single is not the end of the world.

[@val.628]

Thank you for sharing this. I feel compelled to tell you, particularly because you've said you think it's important to be honest with people about what's appropriate and what isn't, a couple of your comments make me think maybe you still haven't totally understood the situation or appropriate boundaries. You talk a lot about things you heard from this girl's mom - it's generally not appropriate to maintain friendships or contact with family members of people who are trying to remove you from their life (even if it's just a simple ex-partner or ex-friend who has no real hostility toward you, or where the breakup was amicable; if they aren't speaking to you anymore, you should not reach out to their family members). If someone is uncomfortable with you reaching out to them, reaching out to their family also absolutely crosses a boundary, particularly reaching out to their family to find out information about them. I assume you befriended or had contact with this person's mom because you knew this person before their mom; any such friendships or connections are secondary to that initial connection with the girl who was your friend. You met her mom because this girl trusted you, and since then she has come to no longer trust you and does not want you in her life, so you should not be inserting yourself into her life by contacting her mom. You may not realize how contacting other people in her life gets back to her and ultimately is interfering with her life and her relationships with other people in her life (in this case, her mom). You essentially put her mom between you and her as you got her mom to tell you things about her and what she was thinking and tried to plead your case to her mom, all of which can only harm this girl's relationship with her mom. This also relates to why you shouldn't contact people's work, or try to find any workarounds to the firm boundary of "don't contact me" that someone has set. The more avenues you use to try to force contact or gather information about a person, the less privacy that person has and the less safe they will feel. It's like if I were trying to keep myself safe in my house, so I lock my front door, and then someone tries to get in my window, so I barricade the window, and then they try to pick the lock - every workaround you exploit demonstrates to this person that they are not safe from you (even if you know you intend no harm, they don't and can't know that), that they have no control over who has access to them, their lives, their loved ones, their work, etc, and that their desires and attempts to set boundaries will not be respected. Your comment that "she has ADHD so it's not she was some perfect angel" concerns me as well - why does it matter that she has ADHD (which by the way is not a bad thing or an "imperfection")? Why does it matter whether she's perfect? This is about your behavior. You know you crossed lines and did bad things; it does not matter if she is imperfect, you made choices to violate the boundaries of a human being who was telling you to stop. Pointing out her flaws (or what you see as being flaws) attempts to shift some blame off of you for your own behavior, which is completely inappropriate. No one makes you stalk them, no matter how distant or rude or any way they may behave, you always need to respect a person's boundaries. That is your responsibility and yours alone. They can help to communicate and demonstrate their boundaries, but the second you have some understanding of what those boundaries are, you need to respect them (and if you aren't sure about a boundary, you need to ask before simply behaving as if no boundary exists). All that being said, the first step to learning is being open about your behavior and your mistakes, and you are indicating that you're trying to learn, so I hope you understand that I'm coming from a place of hoping my words can help you to learn and not trying to attack you. I suspect I am autistic myself, and I'm deeply sorry you experienced hardship and unkindness in your childhood (I have as well). I hope you're able to learn and grow and lead a healthy, happy life.

[@mattjack3983]

@@val.628 You are 100% correct. I was thinking all of that as well. You literally wrote out my exact thoughts.

[@sinisterintelligence3568]

@@val.628 Thx for your opinion.

[@sinisterintelligence3568]

@@val.628 I didn't realize that I had still caused harm in that way. Personally, it looks more like an attack than a scincere form of support. Maybe what I did was inappropriate, I don't know. I actually read your comment very weakly because I was preparing for a new job at McDonald's. For me, (and a lot of autistic people, particularly men) we have to work to make ends meet and work a lot. Therefore, we don't have time to understand the many nuances of social cues and boundaries that are thrust upon us. Ever since my mom died when I was 11 and lived in an abusive family, I've only cared about surviving to the next day. When it comes to boundaries, it's one thing to touch a woman on the butt, but these like micro triggers I can't keep up with, sorry. Your advice is noted for future reference but to some degree I don't care. Like you said, I'm still trying to learn and understand, but it's a very long process with many setbacks along the way.

[@sinisterintelligence3568]

@@mattjack3983 Blaming the victim, as usual.

[@sacrilegiousboi978]

This video instantly made me think of Jim Carrey’s character in the Cable Guy who went through trauma and neglect growing up and became a stalker with borderline personality disorder

[@CraftyVegan]

I have a level 3 autistic 2yo and I already know that they know a lot more than they let on…. I also care for a level 1 autistic 6yo and I can see the foundation of how someone who is autistic can become a stalker. His mom and teacher have a tendency to tell him “oh, someone told you they didn’t want to be your friend? Well, that’s not nice!” 😱 He’s being taught that boundaries don’t matter. He told me about the kids telling him they didn’t want to play with him and we had a long chat about how not everyone has to be friends with everyone, and how he wouldn’t like it if he wanted to be left alone and someone kept pestering him. Likewise I told him to go play with the friends who **want** to play with him and leave the other kids alone if they don’t want to play. And I think I can see it better because I’m also autistic, female, and have been on the receiving end of that stalking stuff

[@nussknacker9827]

The teacher and mother desperately need to be educated. Thanks for doing your best

[@shinygreensparkles]

There's this thing called limerence and it described my school crushes perfectly. Thank gods there wasn't social media back in the 90's UGH!

[@mattjack3983]

Limerence? I've heard this word before but not totally sure what it is. What is limerence, if you don't mind me asking?

[@DrowningKraken]

@@mattjack3983 I was curious as well so I looked it up. The definition I got is "An involuntary state of mind which seems to result from a romantic attraction for another person combined with an overwhelming, obsessive need to have one's feelings reciprocated."

[@pandapuffzee8255]

My longest friend was one of the few ppl in my group who was diagnosed autistic. He was taught a lot of social stuff. He wasn't creepy like so many other autistic people get. It's almost like if you teach people and don't just give them a pass they won't be at as much of a detriment later in life!

[@mattjack3983]

Yep that's true for all functioning people, regardless of whether they are autistic or not lol. It just seems crazy to me that autistic people who function perfectly well, and have as much self awareness as anyone else, all of a sudden get a pass when they cross someone's personal boundaries.

[@shanesorensen7878]

It’s because some of us had our boundaries violated at a young age that some of become stalkers. Like for example forcing a child to make eye contact could cause ptsd. So maybe some of these autistic people who are stalkers also have trauma from these neurotypicals.

[@robokill387]

@@shanesorensen7878 It's more that they learn that boundaries don't exist/don't matter, that you should persist even after someone is clearly saying no or trying to get away, and that a "yes" given reluctantly after repeated "no"s is valid, because those are what ABA therapists do to autistic children, especially in the past when it was more extreme. Also, NT people tend to infantilise autistic people and treat them as if they are childlike, sexless and unable to learn, which leads to 1) not taking inappropriate behaviour seriously and excusing it, 2) not teaching autistic kids about consent under the assumption they are unable to understand the concept, and 3) not giving autistic kids access to sex education under the assumption that they are robotic, sexless and childlike. There is often no planning for supporting autistic people with sexuality related matters, often the only time they will get this is *after* they have harmed someone. In this case they don't get this simply because people are uncomfortable with the idea of disabled people and sexuality. There are actually videos online of autism moms openly discussing using their child's diagnosis and educational plan to get them exempted from sex ed so they can prevent their child learning about sex, LGBT, and especially transgender issues.

[@oscqrwqlsh]

paige never failing to deliver a multi-faceted take on several issues tied into one. Great video!

[@justemmalyn7934]

Thank you so much for making this video. I've been dealing with a man who has been exhibiting stalking behavior towards me for years, and it keeps being dismissed as "he's just autistic and doesn't know any better, he won't learn, stop hurting his feelings, just talk to him again and be nice!" Everyone just forgets that I'm autistic too, so are most of my friends and my boyfriend, and none of us act like this. Also, you are under no obligation to someone who has groomed, manipulated, and threatened you, period.

[@saggguy7]

I've been saying for a long time that i'm pretty sure BPD is just how attachment trauma/relational trauma presents in neurodivergent people. I'm not an expert but thats a link that I think needs to be explored more.

[@lunar686]

I wrote something in another comment I’m trying to remember what it was so I don’t totally repeat myself but, yes, the link is there....kinda...more like, for a diagnosis to be given it can’t be better explained by another diagnosis. All the personality disorders can be better explained by trauma disorders so technically they will always be secondary classifications to the fact. There is also a higher rate of susceptibility to trauma for individuals with neurodivergency. There’s a higher likelihood of BPD amongst individuals with ASD. Eyetrack stidies in negative emotional affect recognition is an interesting area demonstrating this link. Also if you find the heterogeneous link interesting, recent stats of individuals identifying as trans have a higher rate of mothers with BPD. Given the high prevalence of ASD to trans individuals, and that ASD is a genetically inherited trait, underlying maternal ASD (diagnosed as BDP) would support that gene theory as well.

[@Dayglodaydreams]

Honestly, I had to teach myself about boundaries. I know about touch boundaries, but I’m still learning about other kinds of boundaries.

[@amediumlife]

I want to ask you a question. You do not have to answer. I am a woman engineer. There is a guy who started following me on all my socials and sending me messages and then deleting them. I ignored the messages because I was not interested. On my Instagram which is for friends and family mostly, I post more about society and less about technology. I am a woman of color. He changed his profile picture to match mine and was constantly messaging me. Then he thought something I wrote in an Instagram story was personally about him when it was not. I told him my Instagram is for friends and family. And if someone gets triggered by a statement maybe that calls on self-reflection but I am going to put my account on private since I am uncomfortable with you reading my messages. Then I said no it was not personal. You are essentially a stranger and I am frustrated you took it personally. He would also continuously follow and unfollow me on all these social media accounts. I finally blocked him yesterday because it's the holidays. He then sends me a message on LinkedIn saying that he thought he read a tweet that I wanted people to follow me on Instagram (I never said that) and that I am overreacting. Again, since I am a woman of color. I noticed it's a specific type of white guy autistic man - usually in my field. The thing also is I am very conventionally attractive - very much so and he has the neckbeard look to be nice about it so I don't know why he was so aggressive in shooting his shot. I try hard not to come across as stuck up or a bitch because people do mischaracterize beautiful women and I care about empathy the most. But in doing so? It's opened me up to a few characters like him.

[@abbyanderson3679]

Thank you for making this because when I was early in my discovery of my autism someone mentioned that all autistic people were creepy stalkers which kinda freaked me out at that point. I really like how you explained this

[@Catlily5]

Some not all!

[@shanesorensen7878]

Probably because childhood abuse or being sexually abused they became stalkers as someone who has been abused for having neurodivergent traits that was my cause.

[@Messikaru]

So relieved as an autistic woman to hear someone talking about this pattern of behaviour. I've also begun to notice a lot of neurodiverse traits in boys and men indoctrinated into the alpha male/Andrew Tate pipeline, as I believe it takes advantage of the loneliness and othering that tends to accompany autism.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

Well I’m autistic and I’m not an Andrew Tate supporter or an alpha male but I suppose the reason for it is that autistic people are more likely to be lonely because they’re socially awkward and are in more need of advice. Someone who’s very successful with women (like Andrew Tate) comes along and says he knows how they can do it and then they see other people who follow him doing well with women that’s attractive to a lot of autistic people. And I’m terribly sorry and i promise you I’m not an Andrew Tate supporter but if at the end of the day what people like you are teaching them isn’t getting them a girlfriend (which is what they desire) but Andrew Tate might or has given other people success why should they listen to you and not Andrew Tate.

[@amandasunshine2]

I'm 30 and yeah, the "obsessed with one person" thing.. gets easier, but definitely doesn't go away 😅

[@ouwebrood497]

I totally lost that obsession once I got cats. Don't ask me how that works, but for me it worked.

[@shanesorensen7878]

Maybe consider getting a therapist and check for trauma.

[@figgusriggs6462]

It's definitely an issue. I'm autistic and the majority of autistic boys I've encountered have been a little off at the very least. I received very, very vulgar sexual messages at age 13 from the bullied autistic boy in my grade after trying to make conversation. At 15 I became friends with another autistic boy. I went over to his house and his computer's wallpaper consisted of a collage of pictures of girls from his school. They were photos taken from Facebook. I tried talking to him a couple years ago and he's gone full incel. Spent a lot of time explaining to me how crazy and not trustworthy women are. Said a couple things that led me to believe he might be dangerous and I cut him off entirely. My father is also autistic and tried assaulting my cousin. He's still confused about why the family would not want to talk to him. He makes six figures and had a wife and two kids. He knew it was wrong. He held my cousin when she was a baby. I would love to have some male Autistic friends but I'm running low on trust. I've only had one autistic girl be weird to me, but that was also weird. She kept telling people that we were lesbian lovers which was extra uncomfortable for me because I am gay, so some people believed her.

[@Simon-A.-Tan]

Hello, I'm your male autistic friend now. I might be an AI though.... Haven't figured that one out yet.

[@immanuelsule5251]

What the fuck??!!

[@sunshinemcwane6288]

I am so so sorry. That autistic guy that became an Incel. That's really sad because I think if people, parents consistently explained stuff to him I think 🤔 they could have prevented him from becoming an Incel. Also your father, I'm sorry

[@shanesorensen7878]

I think trauma plus autism is the reason your friend could be incel too of some sort.

[@KissTheGreat]

I am an autistic man - I had to learn over many years not to be creepy. I got there though, and it can be done, and autism isn’t an excuse for it, even if it might be the reason you struggle not to understand how you’re being creepy. You’ve just gotta try harder than most people to learn not to be creepy, but you should still do it.

[@toni2309]

Do you have any resources on how to not be creepy while also not crossing your own boundaries concerning doing social stuff that makes you uncomfortable and working on getting your needs met?

[@KissTheGreat]

@@toni2309 I’m afraid not - I just learnt through experience of being creepy, not realising I was doing it, being told, feeling bad about it, then trying not to do that thing again. I have to say it definitely makes it harder to find a partner though - I’m so standoffish with people now to avoid coming across as creepy, that I basically fully rely on girls approaching or being forward with me. One thing that’s not often discussed enough though is how whether or not something is perceived as creepy is heavily influenced by how conventionally attractive or charismatic the person doing it is.

[@toni2309]

@@KissTheGreat Mmh, well, I'm queer, so I'm not sure I would know if someone reacting negatively would be about me being creepy or them being queerphobic.

[@ouwebrood497]

Yeah, you have try harder on every normal thing. But don't expect much sympathy if you didn't try hard enough.

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

I ask females ik from time to time if anything about me is creepy. They always Google and say no you're not creepy. Idk what I'm doing right tho but I'll try to keep doing that

[@foljs5858]

Stalking is basically having a special interest that is another person. Those people make a person they want as a romantic partner, and get a special interest on them. Combine it with not getting boundaries and special norm, and thinking that following someone close (from the social media, getting to the same classes, collecting their pics, or whatever) is a way of showing you care about them...

[@L3O7M]

I think you can have a special interest in someone and not stalk them tho. It's definitely a combo of special interest of that person and just being a not great person.

[@SandySass]

Not an excuse.

[@foljs5858]

@@SandySass Doesn't matter. Life doesn't care for lack of excuses any more that it cares for excuses. In the end, what is to happen, happens

[@SandySass]

@@foljs5858 It absolutely matters. Neurodivergency is not an excuse for abusive behavior, period. We are still responsible for our actions.

[@Person-ef4xj]

@@SandySass I don't think the OP talking about the reason for a behavior necessarily means they think we shouldn't try to fix the problem because I know that I have sometimes talked about the reason I think people behave a certain a way because I thought the behavior should be changed and knowing the reason would help fix it.

[@HeidiSholl]

Ok, so this is something that's happened in my life a few times, and you just explained it perfectly! Story one: I was in primary school, aged 9/10. There was a boy who would hit me and my friend and laugh. We were always told, by teachers and our parents to be extra nice to this boy because of his disabilities. Not sure what his disabilities were, so I can't say if he had autism or not. Me and my friend were afraid to tell anyone or try to stop him, in case we did the wrong thing. We did say things like "ow", which he found even funnier. Eventually I told the teacher, even though we were still scared of upsetting him. She had a word with him, and it stopped almost immediately, and he apologised. But we were so worried about upsetting him, we let it carry on for ages. That was us being taught/ teaching ourselves to accommodate that kind of behaviour, when we didn't need to. Story 2: This happened to someone I was in a theatre show with. She was a bit older, and lived alone, and kept being followed home by someone else in the cast, who was older than her. When he was spoken to about it, he was removed from the show. He kept trying to come back to rehearsals and was banned from the theatre. After this, he sent everyone very lengthy messages on Facebook, saying he has autism and that because she wasn't screaming or running away, how was he supposed to know she didn't want him to talk to her? I was 18 at the time, and thought everyone's happiness rested on my shoulders, so I would message him back and try to explain things. He was clearly angry, and sent a bunch more messages, eventually telling me I needed to make the theatre let him back in. In the end, he sent everyone a message saying he was going on a TV series to talk about autism, and he was going to expose us all, and blocked us. I don't know if it happened, or if he was on it, but he seemed determined that he had done nothing wrong, and we were deliberately discriminating because of his autism. Never mind that there were several other people in the cast with autism who no one had any issues with. He refused to admit that he was banned for inappropriate behaviour, and not just his autism. Story 3: I was 17 when I started work, and this man took a bit of an interest. I believe he was 20, and he told me he had asbergers. I know that's a slightly controversial term now, but it's the one he used. He would touch and hug me quite a lot, but not in a way where I could hug back. I was in a place where I felt like I had to keep everyone happy, so I just let it happen. I was too scared of upsetting him if I pushed him away. He got my number, and would message me constantly. He never followed me home because it was a drive away, but he would follow me around my workplace. Eventually I asked if I could be put on shifts without him. A couple of years later, I went to uni, and heard that he had gotten into trouble because he wouldn't leave another teenager alone, who he said was his best friend. He was then, I think for the first time (I met his mum and she let him get away with anything, and even encouraged some of it), told not to do these things to people. I'm out of Uni and still work with him, and he's very good at checking himself, and checking that other people are comfortable with him. He will still say hi to me, and only me no matter who else is in the room, but he won't hug anyone without their permission. Most recently he did say "I knew you were in today, I'd know your pink bag anywhere", which did make me laugh, but I have now changed the bag I bring to work 😅 He literally just needed someone to explain it to him, he understands perfectly and I've seen a lot of growth in him. His mum just coddled him far too much. I don't think this is the norm though, not in my experience. One of my best friends has autism, and I could never imagine this applying to him, or many of the other people I know who also have autism. I kind of feel like parents of a certain generation would hear the autism diagnosis (or any disability really) and think that meant they needed to be far too gentle, encouraging behaviour they wouldn't otherwise because they want their child to make friends through any means possible. That's the impression I got from meeting the mum's in stories 1 and 3 anyway. Realistically, I've had more issues with genuinely malicious people, than anyone with autism, but I think parents need to not treat their disabled children like they're ultra fragile, and stop letting them behave in ways where any other child would have immediately been told off. It always comes back to parenting.

[@kellharris2491]

I think you may want to talk to a therapist about this people pleasing behavior. I don't mean this as an insult but genuine concern. You matter as a person. Your feelings matter. You seem to blame yourself and beat yourself up at the idea of making someone else uncomfortable. Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm honey.

[@HeidiSholl]

@@kellharris2491 Don't worry, I already am 😂 It's something that I'm trying to work on, but thank you for your concern! I've only been going for about 9 months, but I've been noticing this about myself for a while now and thought I could just sort it out myself! Turns out therapy is very helpful!

[@sunshinemcwane6288]

@@HeidiSholl honestly I just think you're a normal girl. So many times a guy has overstepped boundaries and if you say anything as a female you're told you're not nice enough or they try to gaslight you into believing you're seeing it wrong. Women in general are taught they should be nice. Even if they turn a guy down they have to be nice and polite. Ok but if the guy is Autistic and you're nice & polite, he doesn't get it? They don't get social cues? So you have to be mean and hateful about it? Well who wants to be mean and hateful? Your 2nd story infuriates me. The guy was bluntly told what's wrong. He KNOWS he should not follow a woman home but yet instead of taking responsibility he just continues to blame other people? I DO AGREE Autistic men can learn. I don't know if it's a certain generation of parents or not. In my experience parents no matter what generation tend to saintify their kids. They think their kids can do no wrong. I dated an autistic guy who turned out to be a stalker. The burlesque troupe he worked with before me I found out later on, EVERY single girl in that burlesque troupe got a restraining order against him. When I told the story to a girlfriend of mine. She's probably 10 years younger she actually blamed me for dating him! I didn't know how he was before I dated him! But she had an Autistic son so in her mind it was easier to blame everyone else instead of her son. The last guy I dated on the spectrum, oh God his current girlfriend (who is my age) tries to talk to me and justify everything he does because he's on the spectrum and she has an autistic son. It's like, "no lady, what this guy did is wrong. Stop giving him a free pass because he's supposedly on the spectrum". This guy's mother, yet ANOTHER DIFFERENT generation, she never got him tested for Autism because that was her favorite son. She didn't want to see anything wrong with her favorite son. It just seems no matter what generation autistic men CAN learn even though boundaries are hard for them to grasp. But most have parents that just drop the ball and don't teach them anything.

[@gemini.jewelz]

Bittersweet. I was diagnosed 6 months ago at 48 years old, and it was the answer to so many questions I have wrestled with for many years. After I became angry, and then mournful, I now feel blessed to finally have the tools I need to navigate the world/society better.

[@rob._.]

In my journey through autistic BPD as a guy, I had to learn, yo I love so many people just condensing it on one person makes me crazy. I become way too dependent on them, read into everything. Get hypersensitive to social atmosphere changes. Get completely unable to survive without them. Nowadays, I love many people. I have many people that I'm able to show love to. I'm not just dependent on one person. And with my partner I feel okay occasionally writing and hanging out on the weekends. (And the other life lesson was, learning to be okay alone. Pets help a lot! unconditional love.)

[@rob._.]

The other thing that you learn. Not letting emotional irrational thinking take over. Better rational and no emotions than irrational and emotions. With the goal of course being rational and healthy emotional coping strategies, but that one is difficult. (SSRI's help with being less emotionally sensitive, be careful of side effects though)

[@DragønBlingee]

If I remember correctly you can't develop a personality disorder (BPD) until your in your 20s, at least. It's that some Autistic traits are similar to BPD. I don't think that BPD is something that you can cure, maybe you can be given meds to numb down the symptoms. Having Autism does not rule out anything, so if you feel strongly about the possibility you should definitely look into it. This was also covered in the Netflix show Atypical where Sam broke into that woman's house and kept trying to pursue her even AFTER his father, gently explained to him why it can't happen... And then SHE GOT VICTIM BLAMED, she wasn't allowed to be angry that he destroyed her life "because he's autistic." I think it's important to note that anyone, of any gender can be a stalker, whether Autistic or not. Some Autistic people may have no concept of sugar-coating and we could be blunt to the point of sounding rude, some of us may have no concept of privacy or boundaries, some may have no concept of danger, but I think that also how you are raised and how you are educated does play a big role in it.

[@amandamandamands]

They shouldn't diagnose a personality disorder until you are over 18 (some places will do it younger or say significant traits). To meet the criteria the symptoms need to have started showing before your mid teens. They are something that you can improve enough to not meet the criteria anymore though you will still be more sensitive/reactive etc as I'm not aware of the changes to the amygdala and prefrontal cortex changing back after you have improved. You can be given meds to help parts of personality disorders eg depression and anxiety are really common comorbidities (or some will be given off label anti psychotics), but there isn't medication for personality disorders as such

[@dutyfree5192]

This has happened to me, as an autistic woman. I had an autistic guy obsess over me and follow me everywhere, but because he was the son of the owner of that school, I was doomed to not getting rid of him and I had to leave said school because I couldn't handle it. Learn boundaries, for fucks sake. Autistic people need to learn how to mask, we're the 1%, is not as if the other 99% is going to completely adapt everything because of us.

[@0ctoCraft]

yes they are

[@Enirahtak8]

This video brought up a lot of cringey and difficult memories, as well as plenty of thoughts. I was one of those female children who had lots of 'classical' or 'typical' autistic traits growing up, including those that are more commonly thought of as being 'male' autistic traits, at least when I was a child. I remember *throughout* my childhood being *so* desperate to make friends and having 'favourite people' pretty much the same way you did. I tried to stop thinking about people in this way over time, because I was rarely ever able to make connections with these people and I would be bound to be disappointed if I kept wanting to be friends/girlfriends with them. I am so, *so* glad that you are still in contact with people who you have absolutely adored since you were a child and that you still have OK/good relationships with them to this day. Looking back, I've been much more reasonable with neurodivergent people who would have come across as 'creepy' to others simply because I can understand where they're coming from. I was also not great at setting boundaries with people until later in life, looking back, I wish I could have been more honest with certain neurodivergent people (including other autistic people) so they could have used it as a learning experience, the same way I'd had to learn that not everyone was going to like me the same way I liked them. In my experience it's not just among autistic people and people with ADHD, but with Down's Syndrome people as well, along with a whole host of other neurodivergent people. I think this is something that needs to be talked more about, *especially* when it comes to boys and young men. I do believe that some of these disabled boys/young men do genuinely find other peoples' boundaries very difficult to understand, but I do believe that it's not impossible to teach everyone, or at least to use different methods to teach everyone. Now, this is where I'm going to get controversial. In my opinion, one of the best ways to teach (many) neurodiverse men and boys about consent, dangers of favouritism, how to deal with disappointment etc, is through ABA-type/other behavioural techniques. I know that many, *many* autistic people have had terrible experiences with ABA, especially when it is carried out by bad therapists, but these techniques are absolutely *perfect* for helping boys/young men to understand how to behave respectfully and appropriately with women. Such lessons could include, say: a) interactive scenarios, they play themselves while the therapist plays the girl, b) quizzes, such as asking what interactions are appropriate or inappropriate with a girl they know or don't know very well and c) asking them how they would feel if someone they're scared of/not keen on tries to monopolize their attention, to help these boys/young men understand what's going on in the minds of other people. I think it's right to say that parents need to encourage appropriate behaviours, but the guidance and encouragement that would be effective for a neurologically-typical/low-support neurodiverse would *not* be effective for many neurodiverse boys. This is one of the reasons I still believe that behavioural techniques can be extremely beneficial and overall rewarding for boys, especially if they're highly personalised and ignore less relevant behaviours (one argument I hear against ABA is that it prioritises so-called 'typical behaviours' when, in my opinion, helping the person learn how to behave more appopriately and respectfully with others is *far* more important. Girls care *far* more about being in compromising situations than less-than-usual eye contact or stimming). I myself benefitted from ABA therapy and similar types of behavioural therapy when I was younger, I do actually remember that many sessions focussed on social interactions, why only certain people could be my friends and why it was important to respect other peoples' boundaries. I'm fully prepared for people to hurl a whole load of vitriolic comments at me for saying all of these things, but those are my two cents. Please see this extensive paper that covers all of the recent controversies and developments surrounding ABA, including many of its actual benefits as well as ways it can improve in the future: link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-021-05137-y

[@alexsautismacceptancechann1459]

Thanks for sharing this. Back when I was 18, I made some mistakes (harassment) that I truly regret and that I will never do again. I didn’t understand the line between right and wrong. Looking back on it 5 years later it was blatantly obvious that I was in the wrong, but like you said, at that time I was obsessed and I had a really tough time understanding boundaries. It is understandable but there is no excuse for it. If I have the guts to do it, I may make a video talking about my thought process back then and how I have grown. I think that will be helpful to people but just thinking about that time period grosses me out

[@amediumlife]

I want to ask you a question. You do not have to answer. I am a woman engineer. There is a guy who started following me on all my socials and sending me messages and then deleting them. I ignored the messages because I was not interested. On my Instagram which is for friends and family mostly, I post more about society and less about technology. I am a woman of color. He changed his profile picture to match mine and was constantly messaging me. Then he thought something I wrote in an Instagram story was personally about him when it was not. I told him my Instagram is for friends and family. And if someone gets triggered by a statement maybe that calls on self-reflection but I am going to put my account on private since I am uncomfortable with you reading my messages. Then I said no it was not personal. You are essentially a stranger and I am frustrated you took it personally. He would also continuously follow and unfollow me on all these social media accounts. I finally blocked him yesterday because it's the holidays. He then sends me a message on LinkedIn saying that he thought he read a tweet that I wanted people to follow me on Instagram (I never said that) and that I am overreacting. Again, since I am a woman of color. I noticed it's a specific type of white guy autistic man - usually in my field. The thing also is I am very conventionally attractive - very much so and he has the neckbeard look to be nice about it so I don't know why he was so aggressive in shooting his shot. I try hard not to come across as stuck up or a bitch because people do mischaracterize beautiful women and I care about empathy the most. But in doing so? It's opened me up to a few characters like him. He bothered me during Christmas with my family. I am just so flustered. This man is also in his 30s. This isn't a teenager.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

Dude autism aside, your only human, humans make mistakes, if we can’t make mistakes we can’t learn, I think most people have made mistakes in some way in that respect, as long as you don’t do it again once you’ve learned and apologise if apologising is possible then that’s ok, don’t hold grudges against you or others if it was a genuine mistake. If it’s not a mistake then that’s a different matter but if it was don’t go to hard on yourself. I’m autistic too and I haven’t done anything recently but there was a mistake I made when I was 14 (I don’t think I caused much distress I think I was mostly just annoying) and since then I’ve learned and haven’t done it since. Neurotypicals also need room for making mistakes to and should also be forgiven if they make mistakes too if they learn from it, it’s not just autistic people, we might need a little more but as long as we don’t take advantage and purposely cross boundaries then eventually all should be forgiven if we learn from it. If you do it on purpose that’s a different matter but don’t go to hard on yourself if it’s just a mistake.

[@myrtila]

I’m not officially diagnosed and I’m female. In high school there was this guy I had a HUGE crush on and I became stalker- ish. I remember I just wanted to get to know him but I couldn’t do it the “normal” way, so I went on and did some things I’m still ashamed of today (love letters and stares mostly). I felt (and still feel) so bad that I have not allowed myself to like another guy ever since, because I’m afraid that I’ll do the same due to my poor social skills combined with the extra nervousness I have around people I like that prevent me from being normal.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

Your only human you made a mistake, don’t stop yourself from acting on another crush again. Approach guys and try to have a conversation with them and then ask them out, if they say “no” respect their decision and move on, don’t try to be friends just move on. Also you haven’t given much information there did you respect his decision once you asked him out? If you did then I don’t think you did anything wrong, it’s only if you keep trying after he’s said he’s not interested and you keep trying.

[@AutheYste]

I have always been sceptical about bpd. It seemed like a "wash my hands of you" kind of diag, mostly towards young girls and women, when I went in a mental health clinic. Since then I discovered the multitudes of neurodivergences, adding adhd to my autism, and I am even more convinced that categories are made less by classifying particular neurodivergences and more by how the symptoms are percieved and bother people around. I found it quite clear when I got my "light autism" diagnosis, despite the fact that I was severely depressed and burned out by masking. I'm not trying to diminish people relating to bpd by the way, it's the just the whole way the classification are done and dealt with by the healthcare system that I'm bother with. I hope we keep learning about neurodivergences and how to build a society for all to feel good in. I'm sure it's possible, but I am called a "Bisounours" regularly so don't take my words for it 😅

[@NFSMAN50]

Hello Paige great to see you again friend!! This is an interesting topic forsure! Im also ND myself, and when I was in college, let me remind you COLLEGE, there were adult ND men being creepy and harassing women, and they were grown men. People coddled them saying that they are Autistic, but others told them to stop this behavior, and they learned.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

Yes tell them your boundaries verbally and they’ll respect them, before then they might not realise where your boundaries lie.

[@rcurriden2]

Late diagnosed autistic man here. The way I was raised included learning these boundaries, often through very painful collisions with social situations that resulted, often in complete social withdrawal, until I was taught what had happened, and given the realizations about social situations others just seemed to know. Beyond how crushing those realizations are, at a young age seeing exactly how much I scared, hurt, or otherwise damaged others without meaning to, I also reflect and am grateful for the people who very, very patiently taught me, at that young age, about the impact my actions had had, which I just plain couldn't see without it being explicitly explained to me in seemingly excruciating detail.

[@emilybolen128]

I also think it's not excusable to not put in effort for those that are disabled. Like just bc they're disabled doesn't mean they can't think or feel. I wish parents would teach their kids more morals and ethics better :( Thanks for talking about this! Very important

[@user95395]

This is 100 percent not a gendered thing. I am an autism teacher and autistic girls cross boundaries and become obsessed at the same rates as the boys. I understand you are young, and I'm not saying that you did not have these experiences, but autistic girls do these things at about the same rate from the data, and from my personal experience in my class this year, the girls have stalker problems the most. One of my girls follows me around touching me telling me how sexy I am and then gets violent when you tell her to stop.

[@user-po5bn3cs7i]

Thank you for saying this. I know someone who lets her child be violent bc”he’s autistic and he can’t help it”. She gets mad at her partner for trying to talk the kid through it even. Literally breeding dangerous people. Sure it can be a reason why it’s something they struggle with but it’s not an excuse to try to help them do better as a parent

[@StillthatguyJake]

Limerence and a lack of social cues definitely contribute. I've never "stalked" someone but I can fully admit to emotionally stalking their essence. Does that make sense? Anyways, I love this and the importance of discussing all things related and intersecting autism!

[@ieatpaintchips72]

Theory! A stalker would only admit to being a stalker IF they were also autistic. A non-autistic stalker would just lie. Conclusion! Only stalkers who are also autistic made it onto the show.

[@InkLady]

On the positive note about your friends and dance students- Once again, Autistic people and Artistic people prove to be THE winning combo

[@lunar686]

The trick within ‘the arts’ isn’t finding a neurodivergency....it’s finding someone who isn’t lol

[@TarynLazinski]

“You still have a responsibility to raise a good man” Paige Lyle that was a valuable lesson for everyone and that’s the part of your message we all need to learn. We all have responsibilities to ourselves to better one another for each other❤

[@cath3638]

I guess it's about WHY the person is stalking. Real stalkers- and here I mean the stalkers who are also threatening their victims. are trying to intimidate the person they're stalking ...whereas the autistic stalker is scared of being rejected or they are awkward and entirely inappropriate and yes, they should be told it's not acceptable, I agree...well that's how I see it anyway.

[@TheExvangelicalCat]

I'm autistic and I had an ex who was also autistic and he flipped out and drove 3 hours to my mom's house to see me. I thankfully wasn't at home. I think it's more these guys aren't taught boundaries by their parents and are never told no.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

There are neurotypicals that do that too. I don’t condone the practice but that’s not just an autistic thing. Yes it’s bad but going wanting to talk to someone and doing something like that to do it isn’t more common amongst autistic people. I think it’s more because that behaviour is romanticised in movies and stuff than autism.

[@shanesorensen7878]

I think it’s because we are told to act neurotypical like make eye contact be busy and fast paced that we become stalkers maybe if we weren’t forced to meet neurotypical expactations we wouldn’t stalk fucking neurotypical parents constantly nag us into expectations so my lesson would be if you don’t want to create stalker respect our neurodiverngent boundaries and we won’t stalk. If we say we don’t want to be forced into a chore we mean no if you force you make us stalk.

[@Tom-iv3nd]

@@0ctoCraft how? I never said that.

[@0ctoCraft]

@@Tom-iv3nd I didn't reply to you, did I?

[@Tom-iv3nd]

@@0ctoCraft yes you did. You may not have meant to but you did.

[@Sharki_V]

I once dated an autistic man. Thankfully, he knew better and knew to respect my boundaries. He's very smart like you, and tries to work on himself too so he's a better person overall. There was a period of time though, in our first year of dating, where he seemed obsessed with me, always messaging me and/or wanting to Skype. (long distance) He would ask me to leave my Skype call going even when I wasn't sitting there. But I eventually spoke to him about how it was too much and he stopped doing those things. Just have to communicate with people.

[@papl20]

I have adhd and a survivor of a stroke (meaning I have a brain injury), these things have made me acutely aware of my fellow neurodivergent people and often times I've incurred into not setting boundaries and allowing stalking behavior to escalate. Recently I was assigned an autistic man in my uni dorm and at the beginning it was ROUGH, I was kind and I offered food because I like to cook but this man took it to another level, every time he heard me he ran to be with me and I like to be on my own when I'm home, when I was with friends he didn't respect our privacy and forced his way into those social situations, he expected me to cook all the time. One day I told him that I wasn't cooking for him anymore and that I needed my space and tbh his reaction broke my heart, he now seems like is afraid of me, if I'm anywhere in the flat he runs away from me, he doesn't even want to see me. This might sound shitty but I kind of preferred it that way than the invasiveness that I had before

[@sillycookie]

Don't feel bad. You needed to put your foot down! It's not your responsibility to deal with him.

[@Roses.In.Rebellion]

Oh my goodness I so appreciate you making this video and bringing up these topics! As a mom who is on the spectrum with a son who is also on the spectrum, I work extremely hard at teaching him social boundaries and how to respect them and also how to understand his own. He's learned so much, but at the same time he's always going to need those reminders and moments where we review those lessons again. I also have to remind and help people we interact with that we are working on boundaries so they don't give him a pass just because they know he's autistic. That's where I let a lot of people relax a little too much around him and it only confuses him. I know that they are trying to be understanding but it's not helpful. I was diagnosed with BPD in my early teens and it was the first diagnosis I had. There absolutely is a connection even though people with BPD are not all neurodivergent. I think having a sensitive and more emotional system to begin with ups the chances. Also the fun fact about porcupines made me smile for a straight minute. A prickle 😁☺️

[@Onnarashi]

Have you taught him that it's not OK for other people to cross HIS boundaries too? It should go both ways. Women and girls get a pass to be violent and sexually harass men and boys.

[@Roses.In.Rebellion]

@@Onnarashi Yup, I focused on that first because of certain things I went through in childhood. Children in general need to understand boundaries for themselves and others. Not just with other children, but adults and authority figures as well. If you teach them about their boundaries first they are more likely to understand why they should respect others and speak up when they see scenarios around them.

[@Onnarashi]

@@Roses.In.Rebellion I'm glad to hear. Consent is important for everyone, so is being free from violence. As a little boy I was taught that it was wrong to hit girls, but I remember a girl hitting me and I felt I couldn't hit back. Nowadays boys and men are taught about consent, but I don't see the same push for women and girls. I remember seeing a video asking women if men could say no to sex, and all the women said "no"! In the UK, it's not even legally possible (due to the wording of the law) to "r-word" a man, and "r-wording" a man carries a lower sentence than for a woman as a result.

[@justinwatson1510]

Something I have struggled with a lot is the fact that I can almost read someone's mind after I have known them long enough. Like, it can get to a point where I wish I could turn it off because it almost feels intrusive and I don't need to know every single feeling that someone experiences while I am talking to them. I keep telling myself that I cannot possibly be autistic because of how well I can read people I know, so it was reassuring to hear you say that in the way you did.

[@tdesq.2463]

That's very interesting.

[@hi6575]

There was two instances of girls being stalked by autistic boys at my high school. The first one was in my art class; he started talking to the girl that sat next to me. She was very nice considering he clearly liked her and she had a boyfriend. He started following her to the bus and would pass her notes in class. The other instance was my close friend being stalked by an autistic boy who already had restraining orders against him. They eventually told a teacher and he wasn’t allowed near them again. The problem isn’t that they’re autistic, but rather adults willing to make excuses for them because they are autistic men. Both my classmate and friend expressed how they would feel bad telling a teacher in fear the behavior would be excused because they are autistic. Men in general need to be taught about boundaries as much as women are.

[@mich_elle_x]

Your explanation for these situations are ableist and reveals the absence of awareness on your part of your neurotypical privilege. From what you are told, it is not even clear that these boys have any romantic or sexual intention (which you assume by default based on heteronormative stereotypes). Problem in the situations that you describe ARE because the persons involved here are autistic and suffer oppression because of their disability. And is NOT the result of them being men, who have autism: female and gender diverse autists also commonly suffer from the same social errors. I myself as autistic gender diverse (gender fluid, fem presenting in some of aspects) person was accused of stalking by women (who happened to be TERFs) in my college because I wanted to socialize in my college with them and not males, as it was in accordance with my authentic gendered self.

[@mimibelta259]

As someone with adhd that has been diagnosed since kindergarten I can say that you covered this topic well but I’d like to see a video explaining to Neuro typical‘s how to be supportive of those with autism and adhd without demeaning them and saying their stupid or wrong but I’ve noticed now that I’m older and know I have adhd I can sometimes notice when others around my but I usually stay quiet about it because some people (adults) don’t want to know their kids or them have it

[@mattjack3983]

Well, you having ADHD doesn't qualify you to diagnose others. Why would anyone listen to a random person who is telling them that they have autism or ADHD, or that their kids have it? That would be absolutely ridiculous.

[@thetonytaye]

⁠​⁠@@mattjack3983 It’s not so much about diagnosing it yourself, but more like noticing patterns in someone else that you relate to and if you notice that enough of these traits align with autism/ADHD/some other neurodivergency, you can maybe bring up the possibility to them so that maybe they’ll be compelled to do some research on it and seek out a diagnosis if they feel comfortable doing so.

[@clairegustafson294]

Dudeee as someone who went undiagnosed and masked the majority of my life, I got sooo good at manually categorizing social cues and hearing that thought process from another person was so validating.

[@AndyKirtland11]

I think it’s down to individuality. I’m autistic and have never been a stalker and I’ve always been extremely independent and have always been fully understanding and respectful of boundaries. Yet, I have dated an autistic girl back in the day who was pushing the boundaries when it suited her, especially during the time we had a break from each other and you can only go no contact for a certain amount of time and I was fully respectful of that and she got back to me because I was living my own life and I think she felt she could potentially lose me at the time, but she kept giving mixed signals to the point it gets to toxic. Looking back, I could’ve easily said something like OK I think we both need some space and we’ll chat when things are calmer because then anyone genuine enough would respect that rather than trying to prove a point at a particular time. Saying that, she had no idea how relationships worked to the point I gave up on our relationship and knew I deserved better because you can’t keep someone in the dark whilst being unsure what you want. I find it unfair for both sides when one does that and it took me a while to overcome what was a happy relationship and what I needed at the time, I guess I just missed the friendship we had 4 years before getting together. Nevertheless, I deleted the number and everything else 3 years after it ended because I was over it and noticed how much I regained my focus on what I truly wanted to achieve in my life. I went back to full-time education and got myself a place at university and halfway through I get a prank call from the girlfriend at the time acting extremely immature and I got two girls from my university to answer the call whilst doing our assignments in the library to tell them to do one and leave me alone. Even though I didn’t receive anything back and had moved on long time ago, I get another random message wrongly stating I destroyed their relationship. There is me thinking Christ I have moved on from this some years back and you seem more interested in me like still in love with me or trying to ruin my life or something. Either way, that itself is considered stalking and is harassment too and I from there on I just prayed that one day they will find peace because I don’t hold grudges against anyone and I wish them well. Holding grudges or constantly checking to see if someone one once date is extremely toxic and no genuine human being has time for those people. As stated above, I look back and think to myself it was what I needed in a past chapter of my life and fast-forward to the present, I am on the verge of using my first class degree to setup a business. I just think it anyone from your past constantly is checking your Facebook or other social media sites to see if you happen to be dating someone else days more about them and I don’t get how anyone can hold onto grudges because we are all human and we all make mistakes and us genuine human beings will reflect, learn and become a better human being from past experiences. My wise words for anyone would be if you’ve moved on and someone still remains bitter about something that happened years ago, then just remember you ain’t that particular person and let them judge something that doesn’t exist whilst you move forward and live happily in the present because life’s too short for being bitter about the past or holding grudges against anyone in general because things happen for a reason and none of us are perfect and we forever learn and as long as we’ve learnt from our own mistakes, then that’s all that matters. As an entrepreneur, I desire a woman who understands the importance of giving each other space go do our own thing whilst making the time for each other because I’ve since dated some that either are too distant or those who act like we already are in a relationship and they constantly expect urgent responses like that is a sign of a controlling person and is a major red flag and I’ve rejected quite a few like that in recent times. I’ll know what I’ve met that cheerleader because it will just happen naturally and unexpectedly and I know better how relationships work myself.

[@ryn2844]

There was this once where me and a couple friends were playing foozball (as 8-12 year olds) and this guy shows up and starts being very demeaning and arrogant to us, so we kinda brush him off and tell him that he's not actually 100 times better at playing foozball than we are. He reacted by grabbing my friend by the neck, slamming her against a wall and screaming at her within an inch from her face. We went to his mom and she said 'yeah he has autism, he's a sensitive boy'. I hadn't yet been diagnosed with autism back then, but I'm 100% sure that if I had been, my mom would not have let me get away with anything even close to that. Holy heck what a way to create an abusive person.

[@immanuelsule5251]

That fucking sucks. Did he stop seeing you after??

[@ryn2844]

@@immanuelsule5251 He was just a random fellow kid staying in the same hotel. This was the first time we met him. You bet we avoided him like the plague after.

[@L3O7M]

When I was 11 a mentally disabled boy (not sure what he has but it definitely could be autism) walked in during class chased me around the room and backed me in a corner. This was back when I was a girl and I think he was trying to kiss me. But there where two teachers there and like 20 kids and literally no one tried that hard to stop him. One teacher wa gently like "Oh no please [his name] don't do that you're disrupting this class come on time to go." which obviously didn't do much. He was a lot taller than me so I couldn't push him away and could only try to cover my face. Then when he finally decided to get away the teacher was like "Sorry it's not his fault he's [r slur]" and we just continued class. Looking back it was really messed up but at the time when I tried talking to people about it they told me off for being mean.

[@autisticcaroline2005]

That’s so annoying that the teacher reacted that way ! She shouldn’t have made excuses for his behavior! I am mentally disabled and a girl and I know boundaries and respect boundaries, so he should’ve known them too ! Maybe he was never taught but idk , still not an excuse though!🤷🏽‍♀️

[@willhumason8213]

I was absolutely the autistic man(boy) stalker and you are just.. spot on. So much of what you describe is 100% how I was towards my first girlfriend, but also a lot with your own personal experience. Especially the emotional manipulation. Something after that relationship really caused me to rethink how I saw people, especially the person I'm in a relationship with. It's totally subconsciously taught, I think it's just so easy for boys and men to fall into that role. I've been really redefining my own gender lately, and so much of the "male performance" in my head is tied to that specific relationship, and the harm I caused. Thank you so much for talking about this, and just being so well spoken.

[@amediumlife]

I want to ask you a question. You do not have to answer. I am a woman engineer. There is a guy who started following me on all my socials and sending me messages and then deleting them. I ignored the messages because I was not interested. On my Instagram which is for friends and family mostly, I post more about society and less about technology. I am a woman of color. He changed his profile picture to match mine and was constantly messaging me. Then he thought something I wrote in an Instagram story was personally about him when it was not. I told him my Instagram is for friends and family. And if someone gets triggered by a statement maybe that calls on self-reflection but I am going to put my account on private since I am uncomfortable with you reading my messages. Then I said no it was not personal. You are essentially a stranger and I am frustrated you took it personally. He would also continuously follow and unfollow me on all these social media accounts. I finally blocked him yesterday because it's the holidays. He then sends me a message on LinkedIn saying that he thought he read a tweet that I wanted people to follow me on Instagram (I never said that) and that I am overreacting. Again, since I am a woman of color. I noticed it's a specific type of white guy autistic man - usually in my field. The thing also is I am very conventionally attractive - very much so and he has the neckbeard look to be nice about it so I don't know why he was so aggressive in shooting his shot. I try hard not to come across as stuck up or a bitch because people do mischaracterize beautiful women and I care about empathy the most. But in doing so? It's opened me up to a few characters like him. He bothered me during Christmas with my family. I am just so flustered. This man is also in his 30s. This isn't a teenager.

[@fancydeer]

I have BPD and I have suspected I have autism but I haven't been tested or diagnosed. I'm glad someone else sees the connection between the two. I feel like I should be reassessed but there aren't good mental health professionals in my area, also I feel like if I were diagnosed I would have my meds taken away and I literally could not live without them so...

[@ReineDeLaSeine14]

There is an important reason that most of the time, BPD cannot be diagnosed in people under 18. Your personality and brain are still developing. I wasn’t diagnosed with autism until I was 20, and BPD when i was 21. Back then, it was thought that the two disorders couldn’t coexist…but it can. My therapist explained that growing up undiagnosed and then the developmental trauma I incurred on top of my autism led to many of my BPD traits. I’m not the stereotype of BPD…there are 256 ways the 9 criteria can combine. The two conditions also can have similar traits but different motivations (like an unstable sense of self because of wanting to fit in with peers vs not knowing your own beliefs and values). I could go on about this ALL FUCKING DAY.

[@adammcinnes5615]

I am now in my 40s, and was diagnosed in my mid 30s. Looking back on how I used to be in my teens and 20s, I know that I did stalkerish things, I know that I didn't know when I was overloading those I was interested in, and I did some inappropriate things. Looking back, I am ashamed of those things. I was bullied pretty horribly when I was growing up and I struggled with understanding social things, so my socialization about relationships wasn't great and came largely from books and Hollywood. I am fortunate that people did teach me to be better and to understand that some of the things that I was doing were inappropriate. The way I look at it is, my autism was not an excuse for the things that I did, it's not a get out jail free card, and what I did was wrong and should not be brushed off because of my disability, but autism is a mitigating factor that helps to explain the things that I did, and I am grateful to the people who taught me how to do better. I am not currently in a relationship, but I have been in several long-term, healthy relationships. I am on speaking terms with all of my exes (and some I talk with quite regularly as they have become good friends), and in some ways, I do still love them, just not in a romantic way. They also helped to teach me some of the more subtle things about relationships, and I am grateful to them for that.

[@marian_hayes]

Hey Paige! I’m Autistic myself and something I struggle with is letting go of anger with people and things from my past. I try googling articles about how to cope with this issue but I haven’t really found a method that works well for me. I think those articles were written for neurotypical people. If you have any tips for coping with this issue that are specifically for neurodivergents, could you please make a video about it?

[@val.628]

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[@mattjack3983]

Letting go of anger and resentments towards people from long ago is something that even many, many neurotypical people struggle with quite a bit. Especially in situations where you feel like you have been wronged by someone, and that person seems to have completely gotten away with it, and experienced no consequences or repercussions for their wrongdoings. It truly is an awful feeling, and I promise you that many neurotypicals can very easily relate to this. For me personally, it's a feeling of unfairness and injustice that almost makes the whole universe just feel out of order off balance. Sometimes it can be a physically sickening feeling too. Unfortunately, there are no easy or simple answers for how to deal with this kind of thing. What may work for one person or help one person deal with this kind of thing may not work or help the next person, regardless of whether they are neurodivergent or neurotypical.

[@haleklind]

I'm an autistic afab person.... I'm 37 now, but when I was in high school, there was a young man who was well-known to be autistic. I was in alternative school and we only had a total of like 100-some students in the entire school (there were 20 people in my graduating class). Once while leaving school, I found this young man taking pictures of another female student from like... a distance. A very long distance. With a DSLR camera. Like she was at the school building and he was no longer on school property. It was weird. I confronted him about it and he told me "it's okay, she's my friend." "Does she know you're taking these pictures right now?" "No..." "then it's not okay, dude." Despite that weird interaction, when he later asked to be friends with me, I said yes and exchanged numbers with him. He got weird. If I didn't answer his call immediately, he'd flip out. I'd be at work or something and I'd be like hey, I can't be available to you 24/7, just because I gave you my number doesn't mean I'm always going to answer the phone. He invited me to a "sleepover" with him and another young man, which I thought was very strange and obviously declined, which further upset him. At that point we had never spent time together outside of school, he didn't even try to hang out in a public place or even just during the day first, he went straight to sleepover at his house with a second guy and myself, a considerably smaller afab person. So weird. Obviously our "friendship" didn't last long and I distanced myself from him. We graduated a couple months later. He came up to me at graduation and asked to take pictures of and with me, and I told him "no, thanks." He pouted and walked away. My friends RIPPED into me, telling me I was a cold bitch and he didn't deserve that etc etc. No one asked why I said no. No one considered that I felt unsafe with him and felt unsafe with him having my picture. I was just a cold bitch for setting a boundary.

[@Pixielocks]

Bless u for bringing up the BPD/Autism correlation 👁👁💕

[@comicconcarne]

I tried learning all my friends' boundaries, even if they didn't make sense or seemed anti-social to me (e.g. "I don't want real-life friends following this social media account" or "I don't like touching at all"). It meant more effort to be friends with them, but it also meant they weren't slowly growing to resent me, and it helped develop mutual respect. Over time, I realized some of the difficulty is from the double-standards or contradictions around acceptably socializing. Another channel, Autism From The Inside, recently discussed how a culture of consent solves many of these issues. The pandemic was the first time he could simply refuse a handshake or a hug and it felt much more comfortable. Lots of allistic people also need to learn that boundaries vary, not only per culture but per person.

[@StoneBasilisk]

I feel like this is definitely the right way to go about friendship/people in general, regardless of being autistic or not. Different people understand things differently and have different boundaries; there is no one size fits all.

[@MeandMrSmith]

I am neurotypical but am a mama to two autistic boys, I'm grateful for this video. I agree my boys are only toddlers, but I have experienced sexual abuse and would never ever want any of my boys to mistreat, overstep or misread boundaries because I would never want them to one day become a perpetrator because I did not give them the support they needed because of their neurodiversities. Parenting autism doesn't mean giving up and making excuses for them, its working harder to help them understand what their mind may find more difficult to manage, especially socially. But their beautiful minds and the way they experience the world and genuinely share it with you is the gift that comes with loving my boys. This message would help many parents of children in general but specifically autistic males.

[@kellharris2491]

Yes! What some parents don't understand is they cripple their kids when they don't push them to learn boundaries.

[@kevinanderson7425]

Thank you for making avideo about this. I can say that as an autistic male myself, I have noticed myself displaying "creepy" behavior at times. For me, I think the main reason is because I saw that a lot of my classmates were talking about topics such as sex, making jokes about it for example and other things of that nature, and because I wanted to be accepted amongst my classmates and peers I tried to do the same thing, only to realize that it may have made people uncomfortable. I know I have a hard time making lasting relationships. It does not come as naturally to me. As such, I did not understand the context as to what most people were talking about. it was more of what I said, not thinking of how others might view it. those are my thoughts, keep up the good work

[@lark7655]

oh man i have bpd and i was so worried when you went "im gonna be controversial... bpd" and then you finished it properly and with compassion and actualy understanding instead of just going "its a make you evil disorder"

[@kajielin4354]

I mean, there is a reason why usually bpd can only be diagnosed in adults, because all the moodswings and hormonal changes of puberty can make you kinda fit the same profile. At least that is what I have read about it after I was (mis)diagnosed with it a few years ago, sorry if this has changed by now!

[@gooseazul]

Autistic woman here. I absolutely did the stalkery thing as an adolescent. I dated my first real boyfriend 4 months when I was 17 and he was 19. It ended when he went to boot camp just before I turned 18 that fall. I sent him multi-page handwritten letters nearly every day for months. I rode my bicycle past his (mom's) house even though he wasn't there anymore. I left the hoodie he'd given me on his mom's doorstep folded in a grocery sack because I'd sob every time I saw it. Prank called him at a new years party... So we dated on and off for 4 years, including long distance and dang near married. I still have the promise ring and hoodie he gave me for Christmas when I was 19. We're still dear friends a decade later and I love him unconditionally. I really don't fall out of love. He can't ever be mine because he's not done the work on his trauma (definitely walked the slutty road a few years there with a body count somewhere over 200) and the Marine Corp is his life. But yeah. I wasn't me my senior year of high school because the breakup dang near killed me. That being said, I understand boundaries and would never be stalkery as an adult.

[@meta5175]

Body language was my special interest for a while, before I was ever aware of autism, and I was practicing and observing others a lot to learn it

[@usfilms8828]

I definitely think aba can play a role in all this too. The amount of touching and boundary crossing and power imbalance in aba raises them to be like their therapists (boundary crossing, power imbalances, nonconsensually touching etc)

[@usfilms8828]

We should also mention that this is probably more common in WHITE autistic men and along with stalking politics fit into that black and white thinking so we unfortunately get a lot of nazis in the autism community

[@shanesorensen7878]

That’s why I think that childhood trauma like myself and sexual abuse in autistic men may contribute to these behaviors and being told your neurodivergent traits are wrong. I went through abuse by teachers and had ABA done me and think that contributed to me stalking. I would like to survey all autistic stalkers to see if there is any kind of abuse or childhood trauma for that matter and see if that’s what’s causing stalking.

[@CorridorOfMirrorsRemixes]

Autistic people doing this is the EXACT reason why ableism is a thing. (I’m on the spectrum, and i’ve been guilty of doing this to a point, and i’ve worked hard enough on myself, with a lot of self-reflection and hard work, where i’ve pretty much stopped this level of unhealthy attachment, but nothing is stopping me from continuing to work on myself, of course.) The people who do this need to be called the hell out, and infantilising the disabled needs to absolutely STOP. Your disability or mental illness doesn’t make you immune to getting away with insane or creepy behaviour, and it CERTAINLY doesn’t protect you from criticism, and a good “no filter” verbal thrashing, or a thrashing of the other kind, if it goes too far, as pure self-defence. I don’t hate my own community, because not everyone on the spectrum or with a disability is awful, but i don’t claim these psychos in my community, i’m sorry. Because that’s not part of having a disability, and it certainly doesn’t convince anybody or even myself that the individual actually has it. Stalking isn’t real Autism, but Fixations can be, if like a show, or a movie, or a video game, or action figures, or the Titanic (for example), BUT NOT A RANDOM PERSON. That’s why you have radical hardcore Christians actually saying “People with Autism are demonic”, because of these extremely specific individuals in the community, and it’s further fuelling the idea of proving them “right”, as much as i don’t agree with that mindset. We need to be much harder on the disabled, but not in the form of bullying (because i’m against that BS), but rather fully teach them right from wrong, and punish them to the full extent of the law if they cross the line, or at the very least call them out without a filter in mind and expose them accordingly for creepy and psychopathic behaviour, and it would be wise to have them reassessed for Autism, because there are a DANGEROUS number of individuals who have been misdiagnosed, and i completely understand that now. Great video, by the way! This needs to be talked about. I had to comment here after i had some deep thoughts about this one.

[@randikraemer6551]

I met a guy over 15 years ago through an online dating site. We talked for awhile but never met IRL and I ended up ending things. And from that point on the guy digitally harassed or stalked me for months. I ended up having to have the local police call him to have him stop. The police intervention revealed that he has Asperger’s and KNEW he was crossing boundaries. But he was getting enjoyment out of making me uncomfortable. What’s shocking is that I STILL occasionally receive emails, Facebook messages and txts from this person sporadically even after I’ve very clearly told them to stop communicating with me. But I think he yearns to try to be friends. Yet we have never met in real life.

[@lb9320]

I’m a psychology graduate student studying to become a therapist. I also likely fall on the spectrum myself but I have not been diagnosed. I have mentioned you before in a paper that had a focus on neurodivergent advocacy and I brought up how ABA can be unethical. You are not a nobody to me! You are right that people with various mental disorders can be stalkers. It may be seen more in BPD and I could see how it could happen in individuals with autism if they are misunderstanding. It also happens with people who have narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder more.