"I Don’t Know How We Solve It Without…” Gaza War with Lee Fang | The Winston Marshall Show

Investigative journalist, Unherd columnist and host of the leefang.com Substack Lee Fang joins me to discuss the ongoing war in Gaza. We take a longer view on the conflict. When did this begin? What does peace look like?
I've found it difficult to find pro-Palestine voices to come on and speak with me. So, although Lee and I disagree on Israel-Palestine, I'm grateful that he came on to the show to share a different perspective.
Through diversity of opinion we get closer to the truth.
Lee Fang is a great friend and one of the world's leading journalists.
Recorded May 8th 2024
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[@dogfostermom2018]

I don’t know enough about Israel to talk, but I do find it interesting he put a hard stop on the timeline. I do know a tiny bit of the history, so that makes me question what he is saying.His claims about antisemitism not being a thing is definitely way off.

[@krustysurfer]

The truth is Antisemitic

[@dorothyross9392]

Germany wasn't allowed to hav a military for a while were they. They were a true state.

[@WUB0105]

they were literally occupied for years, even when the Berlin wall fell there were still soviets there (East-Germany). So much ignorance.

[@fromnzwhoisalsohalfindien]

Didn't that happen to Japan as well? Post ww2?

[@chrissi3193]

Big fan of Winston's. He's a genuine seeker after truth,, courteous and fast emerging as a thoughtful voice that allows the likes of this guy Don't agree with him. But we still need to hear thoughtful voices we don't like.

[@chloedemure]

Agreed, but 5 minutes in this quest is doing my head in.

[@ktsf81]

I would usually agree, but this seems like another piece of misleading information on the situation, without understanding some of the cultural motivations etc, and framed as an intellectual conversation…

[@joyduncan9434]

I am a big fan of Lee's

[@chrissi3193]

Never came across him Joy. If he's thinking for himself, then he's OK.

[@user-rp4ot3gr5r]

This guy doesn’t deserve a platform, and I do not believe a word he says. He has such sympathy for the protesters as they were so inoffensive, please, we have seen them in action, what is he saying?

[@the_lightnessofbeing]

Some people have a hard time realizing real evil exists. I was one. I don't feel the Palestinians will ever be free while Hamas is in charge.

[@ksmax6310]

they will be free when they stop following a demonic death cult

[@welshfire7926]

I didn't realise until 2016

[@wesdowner5636]

It's shocking to me how much success Hamas has had brainwashing our college age youth, as is clearly the case with this guy.

[@KSRobinette]

He's not saying the Hamas warriors will make peace. He's saying they'd be a lot less popular if most of the Muslim Arabs were finding ways to be prosperous and respected by legal authorities.

[@the_lightnessofbeing]

@@KSRobinette I see. Seems like Ouroboros, the snake eating it's own tail. How do you get one without the other? The amount of aid given goes to Hamas, even UNRWA is controlled by Hamas.

[@dorothyross9392]

In southern Israel they were attempting to mingle and then October 7 trust was shattered. The people the Islraelies let in and were trying to open up to slaughtered them. Have q conversation that includes Ayan Ali Hersi. may not have spelled her name right.

[@ktsf81]

Winston did an interview with Ayaan a couple of months back, it was a good talk. I think number 08.

[@Baron_Doom]

1967 - Israel did not launch the war, and it didn't "conquer" Gaza. It occupied Gaza as a buffer zone to the attack upon their nation.

[@Yara-Li]

Gaza was under the British Mandate meaning the only country with legal legitimate claim to it is Israel as it was the only Country was created in the region. This is actually based in the international law, in order to prevent a situation where the Empire that has left will claim sovereignty over any part of the territory it previously occupied, this law was applied all over the world including Ukraine Crimeania peninsula. The only place it’s not applied is surprisingly ISRAEL!

[@Baron_Doom]

@@Yara-Li Gaza was under Egyptian control until Egypt decided to invade Israel. What happened after the British and French Mandates dissolved had no bearing on what happened in 1967.

[@Yara-Li]

@@Baron_Doom Gaza wasn't under Egypt until 1949. In 1936 Jewish settlements in Gaza were taken over by the Arabs during the Great Arab Revolt. It wasn't a part of Egypt's original territory as it was a part of the British Mandate, in 1967 Gaza and the Sinai peninsula were gained by Israel until the peace treaty, when Saadat didn't want any piece of Gaza which remained under Israeli direct until 2005. This means not only did the British relinquish their claim on the territory so did the Egyptians which left only Israel with the legal claim to the territory. It might annoy you but that is the law.

[@Baron_Doom]

@@Yara-Li Correct. The British Mandate ended in 1949. It sounds like we are in agreement.

[@TTFN55]

Hamas is a terrorist organization. How do terrorists who slaughtered +1,200 innocent civilians on Oct. 6 get any kind of support from any Western country?

[@rikismith7622]

I don’t think he (as an American, no offence) understands the significance of other peoples own cultures to themselves and how amazingly different they are from each other and he understands and explains everything from a modern, western, American perspective. And he makes sweeping claims for the side he’s obviously on, yet when he makes others where more information is likely to prove him wrong, he says “I don’t want to get into that” add to that he assumes virtue on the part of the people he supports and assumes evil on the part of the other. He’s infuriating to watch. And for a channel I really like, this episode has been painful.

[@zoozguerrero9648]

I seriously wanted to listen to the other side because I didn't want to be biased. This was a very painful experience to listen to this ridiculous point of view!! Comparing the model of integration in America to the Middle East is beyond naive!!! I'm feeling Winston's frustration and admiring his patience!! This was beyond painful!!!

[@AsMr-km6ex]

Same. I thought I night learn something. I want Douglas Murray to debate this apologist, now.

[@HenryThree]

I was in a similar situation. I was trying my hardest to take him seriously and give each of his points due consideration, but as soon as he whipped out that comparison, I felt safe in concluding that he has no idea what he's talking about.

[@BasedYoga]

Totally agree!!! 100%

[@fromnzwhoisalsohalfindien]

Me too

[@janieromer2907]

Same

[@dorothyross9392]

There are profound differences in Islam and Judaism.

[@kazamaxi]

He keeps going on about race. Race is not the problem it is the hateful ideology

[@ceeceebeebee889]

@@kazamaxi It's an easy way to cry racism to attempt at deflection. Classic woke.

[@milztempelrowski9281]

Just like there are "profound" differences between iOS15 and iOS17 (iOS16 would be Christianity). Still the same operating system.

[@kazamaxi]

@@milztempelrowski9281 there is no other religion that tells people to slaughter another religion only Islam

[@gogogaga7441]

And that justifies killing people? What is wrong with you?

[@gwenboland7678]

Lee Fang, like so many other ‘do gooders’ is ignoring and mischaracterizing so much that I can’t take any of what he says seriously.

[@BasedYoga]

Totally agree

[@drivebyquipper]

He's so self-assured in his deception.

[@tamaliaalisjahbana9354]

You can't or you don't want to?

[@manuelcampagna7781]

mischaracterization has become mischieviousness.

[@jimsteinway695]

EXACTLY

[@welshfire7926]

Thanks Winston you are a true patriot warrior 💜🙏

[@JillyBean412]

There are no Palestinian groups that proscribe to Western moral and civil standards.

[@AnAn-yn7yd]

Do any proscribed to Asian, latino or African values?

[@Baron_Doom]

@@AnAn-yn7yd No, which furthers the point.

[@anamcara7068]

Good observation. But I think you mean to use the word 'prescribe' not 'proscribe'. Proscribe means to forbid -- yes, they do proscribe Western democracy and Western models of governance and civil organization.

[@SnowsStorm1]

I've watched years of what are basically man on the street type interviews with Palestinians through the ask project and I can tell you that the nearly universal sentiment amongst them is that they will never except any sort of solution that does not result in them being in control of the entirety of the land. Unreal occasion, they have even had some admit that any solution would just be a chance for them to strengthen themselves, but they would never stop trying to reclaim the land. The only surprising part is that the women, for some odd reason are the most radical force. I was shocked by that, but the women really are the ones who seemed to be the most dogmatic to be honest. I don't know how you cure for that, because all the other examples that this gentleman gives don't involve a highly religious group that believes their primary figure in their religion has commanded them to kill these people. If I spent centuries being told that Christ wanted me to kill group X and I knew nothing but that, would I be inclined to kill group X at all cost? I'd like to think that I wouldn't lol but we always think we would be better than the groupthink and historically all the experiments that Stanley Milgram ever made show did 90% of us really wouldn't be.

[@AnAn-yn7yd]

@@anamcara7068 liberal free democracy and civil organization is no longer Western. Many Asian and latino countries also now have liberal free democracy and civil organization and society. What muslin majority country in your view comes closest to liberal free democracy and civil society? (I think Indonesia 🇮🇩 does.)

[@noam8080]

To my understanding, 3% of Hebron are israeli only, and 97% are palestinian only, and people use the 3% to blame israel of "apartheid"

[@mumstheword8851]

Yes and Gaza is 0% Israeli....no colonization....no occupation

[@robertoeliascalles5166]

Israel did not launch the war in 1967. Israel defended itself against several Arab armies.

[@joge2468]

After Egypt kicked out UN peace keeping forces, amassed 200K troops on the border, and closed the Straits of Tiran, Israel said, “fuck this” and launched a preemptive strike. This reaction provides cover for those who want to paint Usrael as the aggressor. Meanwhile, usrael begged Jordan to stay out of it, but they joined the party as did Syria.

[@staticcouch135]

That’s a lie fed to you by Mainstream Media. Brainwashed much.

[@brynduffy]

Go to Minnesota and tell me that America has a superpower to integrate a mass Somali Muslim migration. This kid is incredibly ignorant.

[@ldqa2737]

He will see it soon.

[@artgurrl]

Hamtramck, Michigan and Lackawana, N.Y are two other places where Islamic extremism is growing. I'm sure there are others in Oregon and elsewhere.

[@FaerieSidhe]

How have Islamic majorities treated their minorities? Especially any that dared to not submit?

[@kazamaxi]

Mahsa Amini

[@Lurch685]

We get it, Muslims bad to you, blah blah blah crawl back under your rock.

[@KatieScarlett93]

This chat became frustrating because of the complete lack of understanding that Islam is vastly different from Judaism, and most western values. Lee clearly isn’t religious, which is fine, but he doesn’t understand that Islam is a cultural force that boasts about the hope to destroy all the western values he believes in.

[@AnAn-yn7yd]

Why western? Do you mean all nonmuslims and liberal muslims in the world?

[@KatieScarlett93]

@@AnAn-yn7yd Islam is diametrically opposed to western values. Yes.

[@MikeParent]

@@KatieScarlett93 Agreed - but it would be remiss not to point out that so too are Christian (and Jewish for that matter) fundamentalism

[@Lurch685]

Islam and Judaism are extremely similar.

[@KatieScarlett93]

@@Lurch685 oh yeah

[@suz688]

Won a defensive war against several Arab nations & Israel let the "Gazans" stay there, the Gazans did not win that spot of land

[@patriciakimball8150]

Also note that Arabs state that “Gazans” are Egyptian & Saudi (with Egyptian & Saudi surnames). But way too many incorrect assumptions on Lee’s part to discuss in a Comment!

[@psychologianiestacjonarna6558]

It's 2024, and his talking about Irgun militia that was dissolved in 1949... And this comparison that Arabs are basically like Blacks in America... He completely ignores the religious aspect the hatred that goes on throughout centuries... My god, he's so 'knowledgeable' but he still can't get rid of his biases and ideology

[@psychologianiestacjonarna6558]

Lee Fang a guy who has nothing to say about Russia, but has been having so much to smear Ukraine left and right... Completely not credible guy to me

[@John-bravooo]

​@psychologianiestacjonarna6558 if irgun was like hamas there'd be no arabs alive LOL. what an idiot. Irgun was very moral. It was WAR.

[@Baron_Doom]

@@psychologianiestacjonarna6558 Ukraine is corrupt... almost as corrupt at the USA.

[@jamesconerly3810]

He wouldn't last 5 minutes in a debate with Mosab. Guy is uninformed, doesn't matter if he's seen a pissy settler on a dirt bike, he's missing the big picture entirely

[@stevejhkhfda]

Mosab is one of the few who genuinely understand, and risked his life to tell the truth.

[@alin8387]

Everytime I try to listen to Mosab he never brings evidence to back up what he is saying.. I dont trust him one bit. He is a known Israeli spy and will say anything to convince you to be against the Palestinians.

[@joyduncan9434]

Do you mean Mosab ,the paid spy for Israel ?

[@mumstheword8851]

Oh yes please!!! A debate with Mosab 👏👍😅

[@Lurch685]

Mosab, you mean the literal traitor to his own people, who sold out for a paycheck? 😂 he lies like humans breathe.

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

Fang doesn't understand the lack of practically realistic alternatives, to the current course of action. At all.

[@Yara-Li]

“They haven’t tried giving them a state” what the hell was the Oslo accords?! The first time in history!!! that Palestinians could govern themselves. They didn’t get it from Jordan or Egypt. They haven’t relinquished the dream of a Jews free territory, this is why they keep the refugee status alive. This is the only case in the world where refugees status is inherited.

[@danielladarky6405]

this farce must stop !

[@martanunesdacosta8687]

Pure ignorance

[@steveng0730]

Lee Fang needs to read the Hamas Charter and come back to debate.

[@ksmax6310]

and the Quran

[@dianecourtney2724]

And the Bible and the Quran

[@BasedYoga]

Agreed

[@Lurch685]

The Hamas charter isn’t the slam dunk argument you think it is. It’s an eminently reasonable and fact based document.

[@BasedYoga]

@@Lurch685 Hamas means violence in Hebrew

[@TheLegionsofScipioAmericanus]

I can't listen to this guy talk over Winston and try to convince himself of his own viewpoints anymore.

[@chloedemure]

This was the most painful interview ever

[@puranic1]

Lee Fang is incredibly young, naive or 0 knowledgeable on the subject. He must study at least the basics. 😮

[@AntonioRivera28]

hes almost 40

[@puranic1]

@@AntonioRivera28 I just heard Gaad Saad with a new term for these people… “intelectual terrorist”

[@jeffwilschut7161]

Unless you know the Bible intimately. You will never understand the reason for the conflict between islam along with the world, that is against Israel. It has nothing to do with land possession, sovereignty of state, or rights and liberties of a people. While Israel does have issues it needs to overcome, they have a fundamentally different perspective on the existence of man. They cherish and celebrate life and freedom. On the other hand, islam worships death and the subjugation of others. Even a basic understanding of the Bible, you know that there is a conflict between doing good and evil. These two people groups are a visual example of our own internal conflicts. I hope who ever reads this gets what I am trying to relay. God bless you all.

[@MsElke11]

it's a tale of 2 brothers...ISAAC and ISHMAEL....and the father chose the former, thus the LATTER became resentful and vengeful

[@jeffwilschut7161]

@@MsElke11 God has written His future for all of us to see through the lives of those who answered when He called. Those who believed, and walked in faith He has blessed and has led them to act out His will on earth as it is in heaven. Everything that has happened in the past has been repeated through different events yet revealing the same message while leading us to a greater understanding and revelation of our Father. God promised Abraham a son through his loans. However, Sarah, did not believe that this son would come from her (similar to Eve taking from the tree of knowledge of good and evil). She had then encouraged Abraham to be with Sarah's handmaid (slave). This resulted in a son from Abraham that was born from a bond woman (representing bound to sin.) After Isaac God had caused Sarah, a free woman (representing sinless), who was barren to have children from her own womb. Thus, Issac was born who was blessed of God that through him and his son Jacob (Israel), and then Jacob's 12 sons. That trough this lineage would come the Messiah who possessed the fullness of the Godhead. He is the Father's Torah made flesh. MsElke, you are correct that Ishmael was resentful and that spirit of resentment has carried over unto this day. That is because he was the firstborn and traditionally the firstborn should receive the blessings and inheritance from God, taking on the position of the high priest. To his disappointment, it had been passed over to Isaac because he was born of a bond woman. Ishmael's descendants had also intermarried with the descendants of Esau and others, who had become enemies of Israel for much of the same reasons. The founder of islam, mohammed, claimed that he has his place as a prophet of God through Abraham because of his son Ishmael. However, by declaring to be from the seed of Ishmael, mohammed is actually saying that he is trying to usurp a position with God that does not belong to him. mohammed revealed to all who have eyes to see that he is an antagonist against Israel and is bound in sin. For this reason, islam and those also in the world, seek to find a way into His kingdom other than through His only-begotten Son Jesus Christ. God bless you and keep you.

[@Olliethelabradane]

You’re incredibly ignorant!

[@lisawhite2431]

Agree 100%.

[@danielladarky6405]

true!

[@Tearsandbjs]

Pretending that Gazans are Israelis is preposterous. Its legally wrong and no one in Gaza believes that or wants Gaza to be Israel. This gentleman is unwell.

[@MikeParent]

You are misunderstanding his argument/position

[@Lurch685]

Then Israel should end the occupation of Gaza and leave them alone. Israel destroyed their airport and won’t let them have a seaport. Israel won’t even let gazan fishermen fish their own waters.

[@FemaleMatters]

The only thing he said repeatedly that was correct was "I don't know"

[@monsel97]

Lee is very innocent and nieve. He understands everything from a Western mindset and does not understand the mindset set of the Islamic Palestinians. It's good to hear a decent discussion. People in the Middle East do not think the same as people in the West. We in the West, have to stop assuming others think the same way as us.

[@danielladarky6405]

good point !!!

[@wrldvw1836]

Thank you Mr. Marshall for being so very articulate and rational.

[@benjaminadams9541]

I wished you pushed back. He is talking rubbish. Listen to son of Hamas. He talked about traveling between both countries as a young boy. No border. Then Hamas started shooting rockets. And they closed the border and had security. That’s not unreasonable.

[@lululaurel2270]

I've only watched 2 minutes & can't handle this guy's insane take on things. It's hard to imagine he's been to the region? Why is he making comparisons to all kinds of global social rights issues? Seems like a lot of westsplaining superiority projecting lens. Love Winston, I'll come back to watch the next episode, but think I'll skip this one.

[@KathrynRose-schultz-qs6qw]

Over taken by UN globalist climate control that has become over taken by Marxists and muslims Has not looked at history or read the Quran

[@suz688]

You're talking for a people that you clearly do not understand

[@AndreaEdan]

What about ask the people who (before October 7th) came daily into Israel to work. Until 7th October Hamas was in total control of Gaza.

[@alanradford3094]

He's just one sided and shows it

[@DeAnne1233]

The one-sidedness has a starting point in his timeline: June 5th 1967, Six Day War (Israel/Egypt).

[@joyduncan9434]

And so are Zionists .

[@gogogaga7441]

And you aren't?

[@drivebyquipper]

Totally.

[@Lurch685]

The facts are one sided here. Israel is a foreign settler colonial project that was imposed on the people of Palestine, completely unjustly.

[@tzm1843]

Lee Fang is totally ignorant of the Middle East, Arab culture, Israel, the Jewish people, Judaism, etc. Lee Fang talks total nonsense.

[@FaerieSidhe]

It's amazing. Almost a complete blank when it comes to his perception of what Pals want and are teaching their kids to want. It's just self-projection. Westplaining.

[@cherylcarter6426]

I believe that him going to the West Bank and seeing what he saw is true. But his Utopian view is a bit off, because there will be both saying that they own the country. America is a different country with different good and bad attributes.

[@cherylcarter6426]

The protesters at the university were stopping students from coming to learn and professors to come to work.

[@ksmax6310]

he should speak to Mosab Hassan Yousef

[@NJIT22]

Luck of cultural awareness leading to poor assessment and conclusions

[@chubone9164]

Most of Gen-Zers and younger are secular-humanist with no real spiritual enlightenment. So every issue boils down to how they feel without seeing issue from a deeper perspective or knowing the history. It’s the cool thing now to defend anyone on the bottom no matter their background. This won’t end well for this generation.

[@thomastsunami3422]

This feller from Mumford&Sons just blew up out of nowhere.. Go Man go !

[@trevorhoward2254]

Doesn't Mr Fang know that the territories occupied in 1967 were taken in a defensive war so that they may not be used as points from which to attack Israel? Egypt and Israel reached a peace agreement a decade or so after the war so Israel returned Siniai to Egypt. Gaza is of no strategic value to Israel but Egypt does not want it or it's occupants. It's the same with Jordan and the West Bank and as a state of war still exists between Syria and Israel, the Golan Heights remain in Israeli hands so that Syrian artillery can't use it to fire upon Israel. Mr Fang's idaelistic idea of a place where everyone lives peacefully together belies his ignoance and/or naivity even further. He should come live in Batley, West Yorkshire or Alum Rock in Birmingham to see how little Muslims actually want to live peacefully without imposing their ideology upon any and everyone else.

[@Lurch685]

It can’t be a defensive war when you start it.

[@trevorhoward2254]

@@Lurch685 Of course it can.

[@LTeagles16]

Fang starts off sounding intelligent but ends up sounding Woke and shallow.

[@susanlarhubarbe9475]

For sure!

[@imthegoat94]

My toilet bowl is deeper than Lee Fang

[@danielladarky6405]

exactly! a total embarrassment to himself.

[@suz688]

Trading port is only possible if the Gazans wanted a peaceful coexistence, & people keep making claims based on post behavior/ israel's response to Gazan's violence (& then they spin it as righteous & justifiable)- no context what & how this has evolved. Claiming Israel as the firestarter.

[@BennyMcGibbon]

How can he say the vast majority of the debate isn't motivated by anti Semitism after those three university presidents gave those answers?

[@johnl405]

On college campuses, no one is calling for the genocide of Jews back then, and no one is calling for it now. Human nature is that if you are overly harsh regarding protection of one group of people, that causes the unintended effect of creating new hostility against that group of people.

[@annaan8232]

@@johnl405 they called "Genocide Jews!" already BEFORE the start of military operation by IDF. Leftist rubbish is so boring.

[@aliceyingshan2725]

Not anti Semitism. Just woke idiocy. Critical race theory is Marxist ideology in an ethnic/religious dress. Same problems that came about during communist cultural revolution comes about with this. Language gets manipulated, definitions become obscure and people get so confused over what anything is that they wind up not knowing what to say or how to say anything.

[@kazamaxi]

He has underlying biases but he doesn’t realise it.

[@grannyannie2948]

​@@johnl405And yet that was a question put to the presidents wasn't it?

[@guymross]

It’s surprising how entirely ignorant Lee Fang is on this conflict.

[@guymross]

Oh I take it back. He’s just a liar.

[@chloedemure]

This is one of the most frustrating watches ever. Lee is so uniformed its bordering on ridiculousness

[@NoobRideseMTB]

@@guymrossCare to highlight even a few of the moments he lied - or, least point to some moments you think he’s being ignorant?

[@puranic1]

Painful ignorance 😢

[@adidrai8]

@@NoobRideseMTBit’s less factual inaccuracies and more looking at the conflict and the people here (I’m an Israeli) through too westernized lenses. You can’t ignore islamistic ideology that’s so fundamental with so many, you can’t wave it away and deem it a fringe minority when it’s the very culture the Palestinians grow up with. There’s hatred and history and terrorism that he waved away, and decades of brainwashed people who genuinely believe they need to eradicate Israel.

[@cgoldst1]

The comparison to the South post-slavery is not apt to apply to a conflict where one population did not enslave another and the Arab riots and revolts throughout the 1920s and 1930s and subsequent wars following Israel's founding were not due to occupation or a desire for revenge due to mistreatment; the clearly stated goal was to prevent the formation of Jewish sovereignty and then the destruction of Israel once statehood was achieved. The US model of integration is of course praiseworthy, but applying it to a region engulfed in war and ethnic conflicts and where The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a widely distributed and respected work of literature seems a bit optimitically misguided.

[@kazamaxi]

Well said

[@user-fq5px2yy4l]

He is utterly ignorant. Total waste of time listening to him Don’t bother, you’ll learn nothing.

[@AnAn-yn7yd]

He knows little. But a lot of young nonmuslims all over the world think as he does.

[@user-fq5px2yy4l]

@@AnAn-yn7yd thanks for explaining Why anyone would bother interviewing him

[@aimeekeel]

He has a lot of great ideas, but I usually about issues he has direct experience with. In this he has no direct knowledge, and he steps into the fallacy that people in the west often do, thinking the rest of the world thinks like them and wants the same things in a society as them. That is completely ignorant of all available data. Muslim extremists act this this in every part of the world, whether they are in charge or not.

[@drivebyquipper]

He is totally confident in his ignorance.

[@luckieolp]

He thinks the Middle East is the same as North America, it's an extremely delusional but popular opinion.

[@GlobalAtlantis101]

As a journalist who writes about human rights and studied goverment, he raises interesting arguments. He obviously doesn't understnd the middle-east nor Islam, which makes his arguments America-centric.

[@themossad]

Very polite way to say this was a ridiculous performance

[@GlobalAtlantis101]

@@themossad his perspective is very detached from reality, taking American Muslims as a reference point. Since Israel was part of Dar el Islam, you can’t compare it with America . Thinking most Palestinians want to work and study like “us”, demonstrates he has no knowledge of Islam and Arab culture. He DID say Israeli and Arab culture “the same” 😂

[@themossad]

@@GlobalAtlantis101 he is a product of American education.

[@GlobalAtlantis101]

@@themossad He never once even mentioned the fact that Egypt is to the south of Gaza, why don’t their brothers open the border and let them become Singapur?

[@Lurch685]

@@GlobalAtlantis101because the US gives Egypt billions of dollars in aid every year to go along with the status quo. It’s not that complicated. Plus, Egypt doesn’t want to be complicit in the third ethnic cleansing of Palestine (any further than they already are).

[@Foster-rv6ty]

Comparing apartheid South Africa to Israel is a big big ignorance. This guy is not exposed and lacks that ethical sense used in discriminating between good and evil.

[@John-bravooo]

South africa was a great country. Apartheid was also wrongly slandered. The arabs want to genocide the jews.

[@Yara-Li]

In his views Israel owes Palestinians the same treatment as Israeli civilians which is a load of crap! They are not Civilians, they do not want to be, they have no respect for the country and there is no logical reason to prefer the wellbeing of a foreign population over your own.

[@Lurch685]

What Israel is doing is far worse than apartheid in South Africa ever was.

[@williamadams4855]

The easiest way to understand this conflict is if Palestinians had the same military strength that Israel has. Israel would not exist.

[@brynduffy]

Once again, there is a conversation between someone who doesn't know Islam and someone who doesn't know Islam and doesn't get the problem with Islam. Until you have people educated on Islam, you can't have it intelligent conversation that deals with the fundamental contradictions.

[@MrMattirving]

Where would one go for this 'truth'?

[@liamhenderson3753]

You're dead on correct. Most people assume "free Plasticine" means they want their own country. Wrong! They want to genocide the Jews first, then everyone else

[@ruthgrady2824]

Islam is more than often evil!!!!

[@FaerieSidhe]

@@MrMattirving You start with treating it as a political ideology. Then you listen to what Pals are saying in Arabic to each other and raising their children to believe. Then expand and look at how M majorities had dealt with minorities. He brought up Turkey without even mentioning (or knowing about ) their treatment of minorities.

[@jeffwilschut7161]

​@@MrMattirving Jay Smith, Sam shamoun, Nabi Asli. That is just the tip of the iceberg.

[@suz688]

The context of how boundaries have come into being is specific to the antagonism & hate towards Jews & their Statehood. Why is it that any Arab nation who has boundaries & culture as a national expectation in conduct; people respect it & with Israel there is continual effort to delegitimize the nation to support the antisemitic behavior. Underscore the importance of delegitimizing in order to do the bidding for the latter.

[@Yara-Li]

Especially giving the history of those countries where ethnic groups like Jews and Christians were expelled. Lebanon was 65% Christian now it’s 80% Muslim. There are basically less than 100 Jews outside of Israel in the Midd East except for Iran. And there Jews are indoctrinated against Zionism and Judaism. Jews were and continue to be persecuted and the solution is to relinquish control over their future as if they will be safe somehow.

[@debbielondon1809]

But Palestinians have rejected a 2 state solution 3 times.

[@rheasophia]

I read that it was 10 times, first one in 1936 and last time in 2008.

[@Lurch685]

It isn’t the Palestinians that have rejected it. You’re being misled.

[@michellelarden5281]

1.900.000 Gaza Palestinians 3.000.000 West Bank Palestinians = 4.900.000 In Israel there is: 1.800.000 Arab/Muslims Palestinians that work in Israel. ( These groups also helped Hamas secretly, for the October attack). 7.500.000 Israelis live in Israel. One state is a no go. Two state is ridiculous after this last attack on October 7th.

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

More Jewish people existed in 1940 than today.

[@wesdowner5636]

The Gazans were specifically the redidents of Palestine who were most hostile to the establishment of Israel in 1948. They moved there at the end of the war, and are not necessarily age-old "Gazans." Israel made a mistake in caving to outside pressure and withdrawing from Gaza in 2005. They need to resist calls for a ceasefire until Hamas is wiped out. It could take years.

[@staticcouch135]

Wow your argument is to wipe out more people and CHILDREN! How do you sleep.

[@psychologianiestacjonarna6558]

It's 2024, and his talking about Irgun militia that was dissolved in 1949... And this comparison that Arabs are basically like Blacks in America... He completely ignores the religious aspect the hatred that goes on throughout centuries... My god, he's so 'knowledgeable' but he still can't get rid of his biases and ideology

[@Yara-Li]

Absolutely, it’s mind blowing how he’s mouth washing the issue. As if Islam isn’t a political ideology first. How many Jews managed to survive under Muslim law?! In Iran they are considered as half a person, much like it was under the Turkish empire. Why should the Jews relinquish self governance for a death cult. And then he proceeds talking about the tables were turned- we have turned the table!! After thousands of years of prosecutions we managed to achieve self governance and build a country. We have a lot of work to do within our society, committing suicide isn’t one of them.

[@Lurch685]

It was not “dissolved.” It renamed itself the Israel Defense Forces. They are still the same terrorists they once were, too.

[@user-nt5yn7ue3u]

An american idealist. Afraid to accept reality. Woke guy nothing else.

[@jordanmeisch9862]

That’s one way to look at it 🤦

[@womenlifefreedom2024]

University grad

[@drivebyquipper]

@@jordanmeisch9862 How do you look at it?

[@herzl67]

Americans have never been conquered nor have they lived in a dictatorship. This feeds ethnocentric illusions. The Russians and Chinese are not naive. Poor world if America gets foreign policy wrong.

[@jordanmeisch9862]

@@drivebyquipper I call a spade a spade. What do you do? Charlatan

[@wrldvw1836]

The UN continues to designate all Palestinians as refugees. A true state has been offered. The PLO prefers to remain in limbo. It is very profitable for them

[@Lurch685]

A true state has not been offered. Israel controlling the borders and keeping settlements is a nonstarter.

[@wrldvw1836]

Of course Hamas/palestinians have been moved out of all other Arab countries. My guess would be it I is for the same reason all of the “leaders” of Hamas/palestinians live in Qatar rather than I gaza

[@aliceyingshan2725]

The Gazans are being used as sacrificial lambs by Hamas for the purpose of trying to create a Palestinian state. Unfortunately much of the extremist rhetoric and conduct from the Israeli side play right into the Hamas propaganda. Those stupid settlers are actually Hamas's best soldiers and they don't even realize what they do actually helps Hamas... the evil leadership anyway.

[@amusedbemused7223]

Just from the intro I could see this guest knows nothing. Just one example, in Hebron, a city that’s very important to the Jewish people, Jews are only allowed to live and be on a couple city blocks. The Jews are segregated, not the Palestinians. So the Jews are not allowed off these blocks without fear of death. It’s so distorted to hear someone claim it’s the Palestinians are segregated when they have an entire city and the Jews are couple blocks that have to be heavily guarded for their protection. Perhaps this guy would prefer the whole of Hebron be Jew free. There’s many more examples in just the opening minutes of his lack of awareness and understanding but I’ll leave it at just this.

[@John-bravooo]

European murdered Jews for existing. Just like Arabs.

[@ATR-ur5ov]

Gaza is not Israel, and borders are controlled, the dude has no idea

[@patriciakimball8150]

Gaza is legitimately part of Israel historically and by virtue of winning a defensive war. But Sharon pulled out all Jews and handed it over to those Arabs for self-governance whereupon they elected Hamas. Lee doesn’t know that Gaza has been bombing and otherwise attacking Israel continuously ever since but he speaks of Israel attacking Gaza. He doesn’t know that Israel closed the borders because Gazans were continuously importing deadly weapons with which to attack Israel via land and sea. Wow.

[@polychad]

Because he's arguing from emotion. Comparing race and religion is already 100% braindead

[@HonestlyNow4Real]

Does Israel defend its border with Egypt? If so, does that mean Egypt is part of Israel? C'mon, man!

[@Lurch685]

Gaza is not Israel? Then why does Israel control every inch of Gaza’s borders, waterways, and supply lines?

[@maltija1]

Because he seems to have no idea of why the borders are necessary.

[@nakana149]

Wow. Lee Fang doesn't seem to have a clue what he is talking about.

[@JessesGrooms]

Gaza is not apart of isreal, the only reason for the blockade is one side is constantly violent. Why not be peaceful and build and the blockade would stop

[@FemaleMatters]

And nobody ever mentions that It is also Egypt that holds the blockade and the border.

[@Lurch685]

The blockade will never stop because it’s not about “one side is violent.” How can you even say that when “one side” lost a couple hundred soldiers and a handful of civilians, and the other has lost TENS OF THOUSANDS of civilians, mostly women and children? You are the worst type of scumbag, blaming the captive victims for not submitting to their own extermination.

[@Eklektik40]

You clearly don't know history. Close your tele for a change.

[@Lurch685]

@@Eklektik40 he’s exactly right. Stop it.

[@Eklektik40]

@@Lurch685 Stop what? Shoking your limited beliefs and knowledge?

[@Rocko680]

Thank you for trying to reason with this ignoramus, Winston

[@julianakache1761]

The poor Lee Fang is totally clueless and ignorant.

[@alin8387]

No he’s not.. he actually understands the conflict and was pretty fair on what he said. I think he just needs to articulate himself better to bring across his point.

[@kazamaxi]

@@alin8387he is very biased and centred around America but it’s NOT America

[@alin8387]

@@kazamaxi He comes off as biased because he is debating for Palestine while Winston is for Israel. That is how debates work. So of course. His job is to convince Winston on why he is right. Which I think he did a decent job. Also, of course he is centered around America, because he is from America and is giving his perspective. I believe that is important to the debate because America is the one currently supporting and funding Israel in the war. I think that is unfair to say that as well, because he does bring up examples of multi-cultural countries that are able to live peaceful amongst each other, so his main question is why Israel and Palestine can't be the same. He brings up a good point maybe why this is so... and that is because there are extremists amongst the people who basically make it impossible and only believe in having an ethnostate.

[@themossad]

@@alin8387he doesn’t have a clue.

[@themossad]

@@alin8387his perspective has failed in Iraq Libya Afghanistan. No thanks. We will not be a minority.

[@suz688]

Because Israel didnt take a belligerent stance after winning the war in 1967, they have been paying the price for not sticking the landing.

[@johnl405]

Settlements? Shooting peaceful protestors in Gaza into amputees during the March of Return? Thousands imprisoned in military prisons with no trial? Mass surveillance of a people you want to get rid of but are within your borders?

[@John-bravooo]

​​@@johnl405lol Americans accusing others of mass surveillance? US holds more prisoners per capita than israel. If israel wanted to get rid of people, THEY WOULD. Jihadists arent protesters. Stop spreading Nazi propaganda. You forgot Oct 7th? You think israel has no reason to be defensive? Not everyone wants to be Malmo Settlements? Like hammerstack? The bronx? Jewish cities arent going anywhere any less than tlaib. Deal with it. Muslims colonized 3 continents.

[@lululaurel2270]

I've only watched 2 minutes & can't handle this guy's insane take on things. It's hard to imagine he's been to the region?

[@puranic1]

He had a Fatah member as a guide 😂

[@kazamaxi]

He had a nice falafel sandwich 😂

[@captainmission]

Me to

[@Lurch685]

I have been to the region several times and I can confirm he’s 100% correct. The one who’s got the biases here is YOU, because you simply cannot fathom or comprehend a world where God’s sacred, holy, chosen people would ever victimize another people and then play victim themselves. Those dirty, evil moozlims simply have to be the bad guys, by virtue of them being those dirty evil moozlims. Facts be damned, I don’t know and don’t care; Jews good, moozlims bad. Gotcha.

[@tyler-mariedann7192]

Y is everyone so coward on this issue? ... This is what they do.. If u agree or disagree speak out!!!! But I feel like it's only pro Palestinian view that's allowed to speak and not be dismissed.

[@FaerieSidhe]

Why is there a blockade? What rights do Gazan leaders demand? What's being taught in their schools? Does Fang even think these people are real humans or just empty vessels, cardboard cutouts, of himself?

[@TTFN55]

Most young'uns believe precisely that.

[@Lurch685]

The right to self determination and freedom, the same as Israelis have.

[@FaerieSidhe]

@@Lurch685 Nope. You don't respect them enough to actually LISTEN to them. Liberating the Msq (that they have control over) and taking all the land is their goal and it is of higher priority then the lives of offspring. Do some research!

[@AtrusOranis]

Here is a question that I had: If Gaza was blockaded, it's borders controlled by Isreal, with all aid being scrutinized, how were they able to smuggle in rockets?

[@rubytimms3932]

Tunnels!

[@freyagoldilocks]

Over 1000 wounded Hamas soldiers being treated by Turkey. Turkey is also trying to ethnically cleanse the Kurds.

[@utpicberlin1225]

One has to commend the civility of this debate. Wish debate on this subject was always conducted like this. Lee Fang is missing one important beat: he is not taking the reason d'être of Zionism and the State of Israel into consideration. Jews around the world will never again allow themselves to be stateless without sovereignty and the ability to protect themselves. There is a good reason why a Russian Jew has an automatic right to be a citizen of Israel - because that is why Israel exists - to be a gathering of the exiles: to provide a permanent Jewish homeland for Jews. And as it happens, the majority of Israelis are Middle Eastern Jews who were expelled from Arab countries. The discussion should be ONLY about how to enable a two state solution. A predominant Jewish state in Israel and a predominantly Palestinian state in Palestine (Occupied Territories and Gaza). Lee Fang also fails to at least acknowledge the reason for Israel "controlling" the Gaza border - Hamas's suicide bombers, terrorist attacks, rocket launches - which did not abate once Israel disengaged.

[@John-bravooo]

Palestine doesn't exist. Just Arabs larping. They're Islamists. IRAN is the problem. Nobody tells Spain how to handle Catalonia do they?

[@jenny.G8923]

Lee is absolutely wrong when he says that Israel doesn't want kids to learn Arabic at school to segregate or keep apart the jews and arabs. It is not the reason.

[@Lurch685]

Israel is an extremely racist society.

[@brynduffy]

And there is cowardice on this part of Winston when he talks about "The Hamas ideology". See, he knows better. He knows this is simply basic Islamic ideology and political imperative, nothing particular to the name Hamas. Every jihadist group for the past 1,400 years shares the same political ideological mandates. Until you can be honest about that, don't even bother having a conversation about it.

[@HonestlyNow4Real]

Leftists rally to the Muslims when they lose, because they judge all losers as comrades. But, in reality, there has never been a more acquisitive and colonizing movement on planet earth than the standard straight-from-the-Quran-and-Hadiths Islam. Israel and the US share, among many things, the express and proven willingness to forgo expansion and colonization in favor of simply existing in place. The Muslim march, however, revels in taking over all that it can take hold of, and subjugating those it conquers into deep humiliation. Leftists for Islam is a phenomenon well beyond ridiculous.

[@yyy777able]

Such an ignorant person that’s sad that he gets to spread this misinformation at your channel… interesting he forgot that Egypt has a border with Gaza as well where people and aid could have moved through that border… Gaza was part of Egypt but the parts results of the actions of the Arabic countries are never mentioned in these interviews

[@John-bravooo]

Arabs also did oct 7th. Crazy how this is forgotten. Like the European mass slaughter of jews that brits helped facilitate. Why would any israeli today be stigmatized for blockade? It's so dumb. European sanctions on russia provoke russia?

[@Lurch685]

You forget that the US gives Egypt billions in foreign aid to do what Israel says?

[@rennyskiathitis8178]

The "ocupation" has nothing to do with the conflict. The conflict began in 1947. In 1964 the PLO was created and their mission was to liberate Palestine from Israel. In 1964 Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt the Gaza Strip. The so called occupation is a distraction, and ignores the 1st 20 years of the conflict.

[@satiricgames2129]

😂😂😂😂 nah it started in the 1930s when palastians started murdering jews for no reason and Israel wasn't back yet

[@LeonSokoletski]

In Yiddish, we'd call him "Schmuck"

[@carloshortuvia5988]

Spot-on, such a jerk.

[@Eklektik40]

En français, je t'appellerais trou duc.

[@Haasenpad]

this guy does not mention islam and that has a reason; suddenly all of his 'wise talk' would amount to nothing if he did...

[@Lurch685]

Because this isn’t a religious conflict beyond the veneer of Judaism being used as a club to justify ethnic cleansing and destroying another people.

[@polychad]

The dude literally said "in areas where people aren't 80% Christian they still get along" My dude. Dearborn Michigan held anti gay marches. There is no cohesion. There's "the majority" then there's "the unlucky"

[@jwdomes]

I think it's hard to argue that Islam supports and leads to egalitarianism to the same extent that Christianity does.

[@Lurch685]

Christian merchants fled to Islamic lands for fairer tax laws.

[@jflf7820]

It's not controlled Israel is protecting itself for goodness sake... Oh and how big is Iraels territory compared to its neighbours

[@Lurch685]

Why does Israeli security concerns take priority over millions of people’s inalienable rights?

[@WhoAreYouForYou]

Lee Fang made very weak arguments based on things he simply does not understand. 1. 20% of Israelis are Arab Muslims with full rights like their Jewish counterparts. He's confusing the Arab Muslims living under the PA in the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip, which they are NOT Israeli citizens, hens they don't have the rights as Israeli citizens, just as Egyptians and Jordanians don't have 2. If all the problems between both sides started in 1967 after Israel won the 6 day war, why did the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) founded in 1964, 3 years before the "Occupation"? And why did their charter promised to destroy the state of Israel and make it "Jew" free. 3. Jews are not living a great life by default. It takes hard work, good economical investments and no corruption. Israel has no natural resources, unlike its neighbors, and yet Israel is one of the most thriving nations in the region because it invests in human capital, unlike the Arab countries around it. When you falsely look at the Jews compare to Palestinians, you can foolishly think it's a form of discrimination. You need to look at the entire middle east in order to understand that it's a cultural failure of the Arab societies as a whole. Only Arab countries that successfully exploited their natural resources were able to be successful, such as the UAE etc. 4. The fundamentals of the hatred to Jews starts with Islam, doesn't matter how you try to spin it. The majority of Muslim terrorists always point to the Quran as their guide of their violence, and only a small minority uses Marxism or other ideologies as the core of their violence. In that sense, even if the Palestinians would live like kings, they would still justify violence against the Jews. 5. What makes you think that having a state will solve their problems? They had a civil war in Gaza in 2007 against one another, and Hamas thrown their political opponents from rooftops and executed them in the streets. They still kill apostates and infidels if they can find them, regardless of the situation with Israel. This is not unique to Israel, this happens in a lot of Muslim societies and countries. Would you also blame the Jews for the Islamic violence and oppression of human rights in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and Iran? Why is Islamic violence explainable when you can blame it on the Jews, yet it's a common mentality in the majority of Muslim countries 6. What makes you think that a full blown Palestinian state will guarantee civil rights and freedoms that the Palestinian don't enjoy right now? Can you reference a single middle eastern country which could be a role middle for the Palestinians for their future state that is a western democracy? If all Arab Muslim countries in the middle east are authoritarian dictatorships or theocratic totalitarian regimes, what makes you think that a state for the Palestinians will be any different and won't result in more violence and more radical Islam? I can go on for 15 more points. Dear Lee Fang, it's hard to see the world clearly when your head is deep inside your own ass. Breath some air once in a while and see reality for what it is, and not from your preferred point of view

[@joge2468]

5.) I’m surprised you don’t know that the creation of Israel caused all of the unrest and violence in the Middle East. 6.) A MENA state they could model themselves after? Israel! Duh. Certainly not Lebanon, which has gone from being 60% Christian to 30% since Hezbollah took over.

[@Lurch685]

You have no fucking clue what you’re talking about. This is hysterical.

[@gerry4281]

Yes he’s right about many Natzis coming to America and Canada. I think it was called operation paper clip. Also in Canada we recently celebrated an SS man in parliament. They seemed to forget that the Russian army helped us win WW2 not the Nazis.

[@joyduncan9434]

Yes, that was Operation Paperclip .

[@ruthgrady2824]

The guy is uninformed on basically every issue. It is painful to listen to him and his idiotic views.

[@jankitching223]

I'd love to see this debated between Lee Fang and Douglas Murray. That would be box office.

[@jenny.G8923]

Lee Fang a bit naive. Middle East mentality and ideology are different from other regions. There many issues, one of them is the constant influence of Jihad ideology from abroad to oppose a peace for the two nations.

[@Curtis3247]

Mr. Fang’s beliefs regarding the Hamas-Israeli conflict are based almost totally on false premises and historical inaccuracies. I’m disappointed that Winston wasn’t more assertive in challenging these falsehoods, such as Mr. Fang’s statement that Israel was the aggressor in 1967 and initiated the Six Day War.

[@zoozguerrero9648]

"I DON'T UNDERSTAND EUROPEAN MIND"😂😂😂 ...but he believes he can integrate islamists and Jews 😂😂

[@John-bravooo]

Britain treats jews like shit and it isnt even a war.

[@chloedemure]

Hard to disagree most if not all the folks demonstrating are Anti Semitic. I have yet to see someone in that camp talk rationally and want to have a conversation. Maybe a few people dragged into then wrong side of this conflict but their words and actions are hateful.

[@MikeParent]

I think what you are seeing is stupid college kid mob mentality - a bunch of outraged kids trying to figure out how to and where to direct their anger. I doubt what you are seeing there is true "rooted in Jew hatred" antisemitism tbh.

[@Lurch685]

You have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. As usual.

[@dorothyross9392]

Please ,PLEASE...SOMEONE NOTICE THE PROFOUND DIFFERENCE IN RELIGION. ISLAM IS VERY EASY TO RADICALIZE.

[@suz688]

He wants to legislate people's belief systems, and keeps falling back to ethnicity

[@JudyCordisco]

Not crazy about the segment. Lee talked in circles, made me a little dizzy. He seems to be a bit of an idealist and naïve. He seems like a real nice guy, but I don’t think he understands that there is real evil in this world.

[@suz688]

They are not looking for a sovereign state😅

[@williamadams4855]

Doesn't want to interpret the protests, but will interpret the whole Israel-Palestine conflict.

[@staticcouch135]

He did interpret the protests and others.

[@williamadams4855]

@@staticcouch135 9:15

[@danisraelmalta]

In correct. Gaza is bordering Egypt. Every time Fang says something like "...but it has to pass through Israel..." just tell him "wrong. It flows through Egypt. And if the border is closed - then Israel just found 50 hugh tunnels below the border, so everything flows easily in and out of Gaza via egypt"...

[@steveglossop]

To keep saying "I don't know enough about that" and then dismissing the assertion, isn't a counter argument. It's simply ignorance.

[@asquithventure]

I was struggling enough with his hyperbole (ie there are automated machine guns on the Gaza border when Oct 7th probably wouldn't have happened if there were, or Danny Danon suggesting Gazans leave for Western countries on a voluntary basis = ethnic cleansing and govt policy) and finally stopped watching at 20.10 when he claimed "3-4000 Gazans were sniped". No wonder he doesn't notice any anti-Semitism in the protests.

[@280SE]

Ask yourself why they have to be treated like that. It’s not because they’re a loving friendly people that’s for sure

[@ernestayen7149]

No INTAFADA = NO BLOCKADE!!! Why is this so hard for people to understand

[@jflf7820]

How would fang define terrorism... He is in his own intellectual loop with no reality of how to resolve conflict. We can all theorize.

[@sylvialandman3959]

Lee fang doesn’t know what he is talking about. Read the bible

[@kazamaxi]

100% what God gave let no man take away

[@Lurch685]

Fuck your Bible, it doesn’t matter in the real world.

[@rdgpromotions6087]

If more people on the pro-Palestinian side were like this guy life would be much easier. I didn’t agree with most of what he said but the fact that he was polite and willing to engage with opposing views goes a long way.

[@kazamaxi]

He was polite but completely misguided

[@geraldbouvy1222]

Let's count on one hand the times america has gotten possitive results out of interventionalism? Veitnam? South america? Ukraine (keeping in mind we couped the government in 2014 and then blocked peace talks for years for a proxy war)? Iraq/Afghanistan? Libya? America has the Bazzaro-world Midas touch...everything we influence turns to shit. Perhaps it is time to worry about DOMESTIC issues?

[@yeeebayeeba4268]

It's been time to worry about domestic issues. The average amercian could care less what's going on on the opposite side of the world. Just as they could care less about us. Except for our money.

[@blabla12654]

The US is one lf the largest beneficiaries of global trade, and maintaining global stability is in its direct interest, including a web of allies across the world. You're right that the US doesn't have a great track record managing and resolving international conflicts, and it would be logical to work on improving in this area. Obviously the domestic issues are more important, but full-on isolationism would be dangerous in the long run

[@yeeebayeeba4268]

@blabla12654 you're correct, but we don't have to intervene via missiles the Cheneys, Nikki Nimrods, Bush's, Clinton's and Obamas and the rest if the military industrial complex fire off to keep wars from stopping. Endless wars should not be the way to keep the dollar from losing value, and keeping the aforementioned extremely wealthy and powerful. This is why they hate trump so much. 4 yesrs of no new wars. World peace. They hate it. Their biggest fear of a trump election win, is war ending.

[@themossad]

@@yeeebayeeba4268Israelis love America

[@geraldbouvy1222]

@themossad isreal loves what america can do for them. Isreal loves selling our donated weapons to countries hostle to the US, like Pakistan. How do you think American troops were being killed in iraq with weapons labeled U.S.A? Who do you think were arming the white helmets?