I Failed as a Self-Taught Software Engineer and Bootcamp Grad

[@CalculusCoder.]

To clear up some confusion, I forgot to mention that the offer was an swe internship offer. EDIT: To clear up some more confusion. I quit self taught, and enrolled in school to follow the degree > internship > return offer path. The project helped me land an INTERNSHIP. All the intern positions I applied for asked about my projects. BUT, when I was following the self taught route, out of all the 800+ full time Junior positions I applied for, only 1 asked about my project or portfolio. For full time Junior positions, Companies want experience, they don’t care about projects or portfolios. Your resume is basically instantly trashed if you have no experience or education. Yes the project got me 3+ offers as an intern, but it was useless when applying for junior positions as a self taught developer. Edit: Just made an instagram account. Feel free to follow me there for some cool content 💪🏼. Thanks for supporting the channel. instagram.com/calculuscoderr?igshid=NGVhN2U2NjQ0Yg%3D%3D&

[@AsakuraAvan]

do companies in the US hire people who are not currently enrolled in school as intern?

[@Regina.Clarke]

Some companies use that to confirm you know what you’re doing also to give you space to learn and gain a role as it opens. Less risk for them. Coming out of bootcamp. A well known organization offered me an internship, but the pay was too low at the time for me as an older person. They were actually going to help me get to hire of things looked good. Internships are pivotal particularly without the degree. At the end of the day, I only wanted to code for my own company and do product management for companies given my experience.

[@CalculusCoder.]

@@AsakuraAvanthey’ll hire people with experience, a degree + experience, a degree + internship experience, and just a degree (although very hard, you need internship to be competitive). If you have no degree and no experience, you’ll have to get your experience as a free lance developer or at a super small startup. That’s the most ideal route for self taught devs and bootcamp grads

[@AsakuraAvan]

@@CalculusCoder. what i meant was do companies offer internship to people who are not currently in school (i.e already completed their degree or trying to breaking through self taught route), because where I'm from in Canada its pretty much a hard requirement that you're currently finishing your degree to be eligible for internship

[@CalculusCoder.]

@@AsakuraAvan oh yea no. I tried it and I got 1 internship interview. It’s impossible basically here in the US. That’s what makes a college degree “worth it”. It leads to a lot of internships. Those internships lead to return offers generally speaking

[@mrjackalope382]

Dude is 23 and has the ability to self reflect and look at what he might be doing wrong then actually take steps to remedy. He will go far if he can stay this humble yet ambitious polite and friendly.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thank you bro. I'll make sure to always stay eager to learn, yet stay humble and always realistic/optimistic about my future. I hope to go far in my career and keep learning. I appreciate the support man💪

[@aesap_]

i’m burned tf out after failing at a degree multiple times, my startup getting shutdown, and getting fired from my first software engineering job because my coworkers were weird af.

[@waffle8364]

Introspection is a skill that many need to be taught but many also have that gift to look at themselves from the point of view of another.

[@Will_Moffett]

As someone 43 I don't know if that's a good thing. When I was 23 I was not career obsessed and I'm thankful that I had some time to have fun. If I had to look back on life and see it was straight from college into reflective thinking about money and career I would be pretty sad. The way this society is going really sucks for you guys. I feel like you don't really know what life can be. Hopefully I'm wrong and you somehow have a balanced life that I just don't see. Everything seems so locked down and harsh now. My rent was like less than 500 a month 20 years ago. If I lost a job I just got another one. You are the generation of quiet desperation, alienation, and being squeezed economically. I hope it's not as bad as it looks.

[@cadcad-jm3pf]

It seems like dude is chasing trends and trying to jump on a tech bandwagon when the demand is no longer there. I'd reflect on whether you have a true passion for the career or just in it for the perceived perks, e.g. high salary (not that high), remote work, game development or work in FAANG (nothing spectacular about it), etc. Ask yourself, do you want to end up working on fixing API bugs for some insurance or construction company for the next 5-10 years? Because this is the most likely POSITIVE outcome, unless you are an exceptionally strong developer and get a fancy job at Microsoft (but, again, not all jobs at MS are that fancy).

[@T1Oracle]

Learn computer science (data structures, algorithms, parallel computing, etc), stop chasing FAANG, stop chasing Silicon Valley, those companies suck. Find a smaller tech company. Build a portfolio of projects. You'll get in. Definitely finish your undergrad if Comp Sci doesn't come to you automatically.

[@CalculusCoder.]

I agree. I never chased FAANG even with a bachelors. It’s soul sucking lmao. I respect those that do. But chasing FAANG self taught or even as a bootcamp grad is just unrealistic. The way in is through a small startup or by having 2+ years of free lance experience as developer. Projects alone won’t get you in. You need experience. Most people get that experience by being freelance devs for 2+ years. Thanks for your comment bro.

[@wassupbaby8634]

​@@CalculusCoder.Yeah, I agree. In every job they need experience. I am graduate electrician and it's hard to get a job just because most electrician companies have trust issues with new grad.

[@ghunther0111]

Agree in a lot of ways but the hiring market for SWE is extremely tough right now & there's a good bit of luck involved. I have friends with bachelors (in parallel fields like data science) & software internships and they can't get a job right now.

[@nsilostafford]

Thanks for being transparent

[@thetropicaldeveloper6737]

i disagree. This is a dead end. Shitty small companies have less money, and are less stable. Easy to get in, sure, but even easier to get fired! There will also be no severance. I have tried that path and its a dead end. You get fired and that experience is not even counted. Someone having 1 year work experience at big tech is higher regarded than someone with 10 years of shit tech experience. Small tech also judges you for gaps in your CV, so every time you get laid off it gets harder and harder to find sth new. No salary progression, nothing. Its just a waste of time. If you pick a good startup its also competitive to get in! Among the people i know, people in MAANG make almost DOUBLE with their entry level jobs than ppl in shit tech after 8 years experience! It doesn't lead anywhere.

[@maq3009]

You're only 23? Dude that's not failing. You were able to get a lot of experience. I'M 36 And I barely know a bit of Javascript, CSS and HTML. You're further ahead than most.

[@KevinJ-o9c]

Let em know! I'm 36 also and starting my BS in CS, in 3 weeks! Never to late!

[@samiulalomsium-t7i]

You people are 36, but you have a proactive mindset. Sooner or later, you will win. Good Luck ...

[@KevinJ-o9c]

@@samiulalomsium-t7i Ty for your kind words.

[@jmatao]

I love this comment. 34 currently learning python after doing harvards free cs50.

[@exapsy]

Im a senior software engineer and I even can't land on a job. And I'm not even seeking FAANG (which push you to useless stupid LEETCODE interviews). I'm seeking small companies that might need my help and obviously they do, they made a job posting about it. But the supply is big. Last time I saw an application on LinkedIn Premium, (im not sure if it shows without), it showed like 30-300 applicants. Obviously you have 1/30-300 chance for even getting interviewed. LET ALONE getting hired. It's obvious a lot of those applications are garbage applications, but that means they have to filter a lot of them, and that means they probably have a program that automatically filters it for them most likely which might lead to many mistakes and auto-rejection emails, or pure human factor involved in it reviewing each of those 300 applications, which is horrible

[@ExistentialSadness]

Bro, people with master's degree of CS can't even get a job...it's not because you are a self-taught, trust me.

[@randomfellow1483]

Why is that?

[@encabsss]

@@randomfellow1483 because of massive layoffs

[@emilyau8023]

Yes, there's people with degrees who don't have a job yet. But the smart thing to look at is the statistics that show people with degrees have lower unemployment rates when the economy stabilizes.

[@ExistentialSadness]

What do you recommend?@@guamie

[@raminbaghirov9998]

True I knew guy with master degree working in grocery store as a cashier. He just couldn't find a job because of massive lay off.

[@pesomeso2433]

you didn't fail. you got stronger, wiser, and built a start up. Thats a BIG WIN. When one door closes another opens. Some paths lead to a degree some don't. Respect big dawg

[@CalculusCoder.]

Appreciate the support brother. Means alot for real!

[@kompila]

@@CalculusCoder. for real bro

[@HoboWithaNetbook]

You're basically in the position I was in in 2008/2009, I graduated with a computer science degree right as the economy sh*t itself, couldn't land a job and a friend and I pushed an app that took us 6 months to develop and we got like $40 in ad revenue between the two of us. I ended up in a completely different field while my homeboy eventually got into startups after ~2 years of trying. Crappy situation to be in, but life will go on; It's gonna be a hustle economy for the next couple of years.

[@Danuxsy]

back then you didn't have modern transformers (NNs), jobs will decrease year by year.

[@TheSoulCrisis]

Crazy how hard it is to do your own thing AND land a job out there, damn that was rough and demotivating for sure. 6 months to get $40 in ad revenue is definitely crushing if you're trying to make real money off the first app, but to be honest you have to learn lessons from the first apps and apply them until you hit a breakthrough on average. Glad you made it somewhere else anyway.

[@BailinCAI]

i think we should continue learn new stuff so that we could have chance to catch up new wave@@Danuxsy

[@MrE-y7v]

I got out of IT and I'm doing another field. The competition is way too great. I need a job now and waiting for applications to get responded too was a waste of time. I know the time period you are talking about when a Bachelors was necessary to get a job. Now they don't even care and school is a waste of money and time.

[@MrClevelandMade]

@@MrE-y7vwhat field?

[@vjzb3]

Just because you haven’t gotten the big corporate job yet doesn’t mean you failed, man. Everyone’s journey looks different. Every single thing you’ve done, every attempt you’ve made, every rejection, every victory, it’s all a part of your journey and each step has moved you forward towards where you’re meant to be. Never stop being your own #1 fan bro. Success is a measure that’s taken at the end of life 💪🏼

[@adan-codes]

I'm a bootcamp grad. Started in 2016. Cohort of 15, I think 14/15 got jobs, including myself. It was hard, took 7 months for me to land my first job but got several interviews before I landed it. Big +1 on the having to go the extra mile and learn something different / set yourself apart. I learned Angular when it was still in its release candidate stage and practiced by building an app with that. The company that ended up hiring me was very interested in Angular development and liked my initiative. That helped tremendously in landing my first gig. I understand the job market it different now adays, just wanted to share my story for any new bootcamp grads / CS grads looking to break into the field.

[@junicornplays980]

This! That's around the time I was in my bootcamp as well. One of my classmates tried to tell us how this new Facebook library called React was going to be big but we didn't believe him. He was getting interviews a month before we even graduated and got a React job two weeks before we graduated. Another student specialized in APIs and was the next one to find a job. For me it took me 6 months before I landed a crappy PHP job that I took because I was desperate.

[@fr5229]

Angular was released in 2010 bro

[@adan-codes]

@@fr5229 You're referring to AngularJS. Per the documentation, modern Angular is known simply as Angular.

[@moisesalcala7450]

I wouldn't call tech a bubble. These bootcamps promise a low barrier to entry and that in 6 months, you'll be some Google engineer making 200k a year. The truth is that these bootcamps, while helpful, are not going to get you into tech alone. It takes an incredible amount of time and effort to build the skills,project portfolio, and credibility that a company will want to see in a candidate. Supporting you rOtZ.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Very solid points. And lmfaooo I appreciate the support brother.

[@chop8557]

and networking. a lot of networking to ensure that you know the right people and have the right mentors.

[@juggles5474]

It is a bubble in a sense, for sure. Bootcamps are a scam but the last few years companies had hired droves of programmers to essentially do nothing and were making 150k for doing that nothing. Those times are gone. Everywhere else in the world programmer salaries are normal white collar salaries like 70-80k, which seems much more reasonable for people who plug snippets into frameworks. The demand for programmers is about to collapse

[@svendtang5432]

And then you need to actually make software the user wants

[@xPussySlayerx69420]

⁠@@juggles5474low paying companies and most jobs in other countries (relatively weak tech scene, ie: apple is worth more than all EU tech companies combined) are doing simple things like maintaining existing services, glueing together a few api calls. That’s why they pay 70k in the other countries. Companies paying 200k for new grads aren’t really doing that… so you can’t compare them. It’s a completely different job, this is also why people at those companies get down leveled hard if they get an offer at faang (ie: principal engineer to mid level at google)

[@SoftwareJournal]

I'm self-taught coming from Mechanical Engineer to Trucking then finally Software Engineer. Keep going and set those goals!

[@UNMEASURED100]

Why did you leave Mechanical Engineering? Cause It's too hard?

[@Fonsecaj89]

It’s easier to become a programmer from another engineering than starting from nothing. Besides, many gurus just sell smoke and unicorns when the software industry is kind of canibalistic

[@junicornplays980]

Software Engineering in the trucking industry is growing, also engineering for agricultural equipment

[@AP-te6mk]

@@UNMEASURED100 He probably didn't like it. I went from mechanical (aerospace) to software (aerospace) just because I enjoy it more.

[@rockpadstudios]

I started out a Hardware Engineer doing EMP testing for the Air Force and only took Fortran in College. One day I noticed a book called "The C Programming Language" and had some time to myself so I started writing programs to query a database we stored data in. I then got a job writing firmware for an Oil Field company and they still sell the system I wrote all the firmware for (A great job). I then started interviewing as a software engineer and many times got my ass handed to me. I did real bare metal work and some questions I didn't even understand. After finding and reading a book on compiler design it started to make sense. The hardest thing to figure out is what kind of software do you want to write and learn how to communicate that in interviews. It is a string of failures but does get easier.

[@grayboywilliams]

Appreciate your story. I am a SWE for Microsoft and even for those of us who weren’t laid off it has sucked not getting raises or promotions this year, everyone feels like they are under valued now. Basically the whole industry has just frozen solid. But it’s inspiring to hear about your success story throughout this. And these things cycle every few years so hang in there.

[@sepg5084]

​@@guamiesupply and demand. Too much supply of SWE applicants without a matching size of demand will drive the salaries down.

[@youMatterItDoesGetBetter]

And when you're making like $100k+ it's just not enough so quickly... then $150 isn't then 200k isn't... oh how money isn't everything.

[@EvgeniyaJZ]

You're so lucky to be working at Microsoft. Yes you may not have gotten a raise or promotion, but you're at a frikkin Microsoft earning a decent paycheck! You aren't on food stamps or unemployed! Or breaking your back working for $12/hr in construction!

[@youMatterItDoesGetBetter]

Yeah, it's in the eye of the beholder. Most of us are grinding out here for like 60k or less. We'll make it though. @@EvgeniyaJZ

[@Swamy456]

I laughed when you said you were 23. I didn't go back and get my bachelor's in EE until I was 25. I'm 35 now and just got my masters in CS from Georgia Tech online. I suggest you do the same. You are smart and motivated.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thank you man! Definitely going back to finish that degree. It will open a lot of opportunities and there is always time to do things differently.

[@undeadishbill]

Ok, he didn't fail as a self-taught engineer. He lacked the experience to understand what hiring managers are looking for in a software engineer. His startup provided an excellent portfolio showing proof of work and an understanding of how to integrate his experience with a business goal, which is better than saying "I studied for two years and now I know X amount of languages." If you notice, his offers came along after his proof of work, and a 10% rate of return on applications vs offers to interview is high. Hiring managers don't care about what you know, they care about what you can deliver with what you know.

[@fern-cx3bf]

Hey, i see that your comment is pretty recent. I’m still in HS and i have 8 months before i can enroll in a community college here in cancun. For the SWE degree it would take me 40 months and it’s very very cheap.(4000 pesos every 4 months ) do you think it would be worth it? I’m still going to be self teaching myself while in college, but would the degree help? If so in how?? Would the rate of investment be successful?

[@undeadishbill]

@@fern-cx3bf If you can get the degree, then get the degree. There are always going to be interview questions that are easier to answer if you have a formal background. There is also a bias among many degree holding hiring managers (and human resources) for degree holders. The hardest part will be getting the first job. Try to find any path to having verifiable job experience, even if it is as a volunteer or intern. Take contract work through a staffing agency if you need to. Build experience. Most affordable method- get a low level job with your 2 year degree at a company that offers tuition assistance/reimbursement. Get the 4 year degree while working. Now you have experience and a 4 year degree. I went the self-taught route. Trust me when I say that is the hard way, but the hard way can be really good if you are that kind of person. Most people are not.

[@dennyklein1965]

@@fern-cx3bf in the end, no matter what schooling you do, you need to build things to show your skills. I personally did not go the software engineering route because the industry in the last couple of years has been overly flooded with advertisements and boot camps. If you’re going to college and getting a degree don’t assume that the degree holds that much weight when yes it can help you if you were scaling up in your career but employers really want to see what your skill set is and if it’s useful to the company. Hence this is why you need to build projects to showcase your skills. While you’re doing your studies and learning, you should build projects alongside of what you learned so that way once you’ve graduated, you can go ahead and start applying to places. There was a time when degrees held more weight and value not to mention almost guaranteed an excellent starting salary. Now colleges are competing with specialty schools that provide more modern skillsets and take 1/4th of the time invested to finish. Whatever you choose to do, just make sure your skills or on the up and up when applying to jobs. Just know that a lot of employers are not wanting to hold anybody’s hand teaching them the ropes. There are skills that employers really want people to have before hiring.

[@fern-cx3bf]

@@dennyklein1965 ohkay great! Believe i do intend on being self taught starting from January, even in UNI , and i know that being self taught is a must in the field. Constantly learning, self projects, even small online certifications in mastery of certain languages, i intend on doing that all while in UNI, but in essence, a SWE degree does help “ stand out “ in the list, also increasing the odds of getting a higher salary? Thank you, merry Christmas 🎄

[@jonathankim1999]

So true man, truly unique projects like yours stand out from the crowd. I'm a software developer at Amazon, but when I was interviewing everyone asked me about my project specifically rather than any internship experience I had.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thats my next video bro! Building projects is necessary, and whats even more important is making a unique project. Also good stuff with the Amazon job. Congrats!

[@jonathankim1999]

@@CalculusCoder. Thanks, and you too man! Your channel is underrated, keep up the honest yet informative vids

[@waynelast1685]

What is important is you are in touch with your passions, your skills, your development... NOT what others think. Be realistic, not ego-driven.

[@andyl9920]

Tech is going to take over. I'm studying rn too, but doing self taught. Despite all the layoffs and competition i will fight for it hahaha

[@ДімаКуріптя]

same here

[@keifer7813]

I like the point you bring up about giving up. We as a society like to look at successful people that never gave up but forget the sea of people who also never gave up but are still unsuccessful. Its like the whole brave vs stupid concept. You'll be called brave if you take on a huge risk and succeed. But if you fail, well then you were just stupid. We are a funny bunch, us humans

[@994pt4]

survivorship bias

[@fr5229]

The key is that you only fail if you quit

[@keifer7813]

@@fr5229 That's BS and you know it lol. The guy who spent his whole life trying to run a business and failed every single time isn't a failure because he never quit until his last breath? Cmon

[@fr5229]

@@keifer7813 correct 😉

[@olvrwsz6666]

Hey man! Really enjoy listening to you being honest and open with your experiences. Here are some of my thoughts about that: a career is not a ladder that only goes up. I have a hard time to speak of failure just because one path that you once took did not work out as expected. It made you question your actions, adjust, take a different approach and, most importantly, succeed. I only see and hear a man in this video talking about how he succeeded in a difficult phase. You are 23, made the right choices so far and for sure you will have a great career in the future.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Hey bro, this is an amazing comment. Thank you for your kind words. It definitely means a lot and this made my day. I wish you the best and I hope I can keep making cool and genuine content like this.

[@GuRuGeorge03]

Hearing and reading about all this makes me realize how lucky I was. I started studying business computing in 2018 (about 50% development/50% business), by the end of 2019 i already got tons of offers for internships, but i declined them all and applied myself to a local small startup. they accepted me isntantly (literally a company with just 4 people). While I kept studying for my bachelors degree I was able to work 40 hours a week and earn money (pay was basically min wage but I just saw the opportunity to learn). Then in 2021 I got my degree and talked to a few recruiters. Got a few rejections and 1 offer with really shit pay, and then outta nowhere one company applied to me with a crazy good offer. I accepted that and loved the job. Now , basically just 2 years later, I am a senior developer in a different company and I will be promoted to lead developer start of next year (i am already acting lead developer but they need some time for the paper work)

[@wileycoyote9688]

how is that supposed to make him feel better

[@zmirc]

Senior after 2 years? What's wrong with this industry

[@thompsonyeboah]

You are 1000% percent right. I started as a self taught but after lots of rejections I decided to go back to college. I got a swe permanent before my final months in college now am in my second swe job. Republic of Ireland does not believe in self taught. Thanks for sharing

[@albertohuerta]

Hey I found that as well. I moved to Ireland for a year and it was TOUGH getting a job with only bootcamp. Eventually settled for a job in Dundalk.

[@emilyau8023]

There are tons of people dropping out because the mainstream media popularizes the misinformation of the value of degrees. They are legit choosing to give themselves a disadvantage. They are choosing to give themselves hardship that they would've dodged.

[@kevindotexe]

Thank you for being vulnerable and putting your story out there. Keep at it, hope requires action 🙏🏽

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thank you🙏🙏

[@michaelsuede]

Really good advice. If you don't have a BS or BA, you need to have a portfolio of projects that demonstrate your skill. Even if you have a BS or a BA, having a portfolio of projects that demonstrate your coding skills will make you much more hirable.

[@Art-is-craft]

A portfolio is far more important than degrees.

[@homeofcreation]

I started as a customer service agent and learned my way to to become a senior developer in two years with no formal IT education. Part luck part, part attitude, part hard work I guess. And a little fake it till you make it. But mainly by staying focussed on the job at hand and not meandering and exploring everything to hits the mind.

[@Regina.Clarke]

You probably could have made it, BUT I think you did the right thing at your age. Gatekeepers (HR) are often older and have their biases. That’s just the reality. The CS degree gives you so much and lots of internships help you get a job after graduating. Great video! Best of luck. You have time and will certainly do well.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Hey I appreciate that a lot! Recruiters are really the gatekeepers. It’s super hard getting passed them with no degree. They’re definitely not gonna be looking at projects either lmao. You’re right about that. I’m young and really shoudve just went with school from the start. I have a lot of time and am grateful for it. I hope you are doing well in your career and journey. Thank you for your comment and support 💪🏼🙏🏼

[@riichobamin7612]

I feel you bro. I am currently learning Full Stack Web Dev from Udemy and even here in India, the hiring is SLOWWWWW ! You account has provided me with some relief as it proves that if I can atleast demonstrate competency through projects, I can break into this field. I have a Bachelor's degree in Biotechnology, Chemistry and Zoology (it was a combination of these subjects) and this is the first time I am learning anything related to coding. Let's hope we all find our happiness.

[@phillipgoat00]

I am a mechanical engineer too. Tried to get into coding but I failed too. Right now I am starting as a help desk support, learning a lot about IT and that is going great for me. Considering I didn't know anything about networking and stuff. Good luck man. Great video and very inspiring.

[@danny.golcman6846]

just curious but why did you leave the mechanical engineering path?

[@phillipgoat00]

@@danny.golcman6846 it's a nice career but you cannot work from home. You have to travel and work on site, but it depends on what you're doing too. So I guess that career was fun for a while until it wasn't. I still recommend mechanical engineering over software engineering tho. If you're a mechanical engineer who knows how to code. man, that will put you ahead of everyone else. So my advice is follow industrial design or structural design and do some coding too. I will guarantee you will get a 6 figure salary sooner rather than later.

[@mofogie]

that's a good path to start on. It's good you're not laid off either.

[@Sindoku]

My advice is to NOT rush into the development world. I’ve been in the field for 5 years now, and if I could change one thing, it would have been how desperate I was to enter the software development workforce. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I eventually wanted to get a job doing it, but I honestly wish I would have waited maybe 6-12 more months and spent that time more wisely preparing myself. That said, it all worked out in the end, but that has meant going back and learning a lot of things. I was also lucky enough to win several scholarships to some mini boot camps, 2 were 12 week 3 days per week, and 1 was 5 days per week for 4 months. I eventually went to a longer boot camp that was 6-9 months long. I finally felt prepared after that last camp, but I did work between the 4 month and 9 month camp, and I quickly realized that I had jumped too quickly into the SW development world. So, my advice is to just take your time, and don’t stress trying to be some 6 month Google employee!

[@mioox40]

Thank you for sharing this. I was reluctant to enter college because I thought I could break in purely from being self-taught and having a degree in an unrelated field. People don't speak up enough about experiences like this and could make impressionable kids like I was not want to go to college at all

[@earlninoalajid8105]

did you choose cs? i also wanted to be a programmer but i chose ee course and decided to self learn programming.

[@mioox40]

@@earlninoalajid8105 I'm in the process haha, I majored in physics but after trying to self learn and failing because I realized it was really hard, I'm transferring to a CS course. How's your self learning journey so far?

[@CalculusCoder.]

Im glad im able to help people out man. I definitely want to open the mind of young people in this field. Going in self taught with no degree, I was nobody. No one cared about my projects or what I had to offer. A degree put me on the map. 20+ interviews , networking opportunities, and connections. I went from complaining about going back to college to being extremely grateful. I’ve been seeing too much hate on college these days. I worked 2 jobs, got scholarships, went to community college for my first 3 years, basically graduating debt free. Most of my friends did the same and graduated debt free or with < $10k in debt. You need to play the game right.

[@xevious4142]

Man you're still super young. Don't sweat it. The market was garb in 2023, the worst I've seen. Go back to school and finish that degree. You've got plenty of time.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thanks man! There is alot of time, never to late to change things up!

[@michaelreeder322]

Congratz. It's so fun to go all out on CS projects when you're motivated to learn, not just complete.

[@osiris7945]

hearing your story opened my eyes. being self-taught and having everything you need from an online course and boot camp and not getting what you expect is sad. but that is how life is, life happens. I am also preparing myself to get into a tech company with everything I have, still a long way to go and I'll probably get through the same thing you just got through. but that doesn't stop me from trying, it motivates me to do more and believe that to be better I need to face obstacles and failures even If it takes pushing me back a few steps.

[@deric3676]

Such a different and inspirational video from those online. i recently got into university which im starting to hate it just a few months in and thinking of going the self taught way. this video and your story really opened my eyes up. all support to u and thank you.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Of course man, hope you can be at peace with your decision and feel confident. Good luck!

[@diegogbox]

You didn't fail, you had to face an unexpected challenge and successfully overcame it despite overwhelming odds. That's a huge win in my book.

[@ryannygard3661]

70% of software job openings are for senior engineers, and boot camps lie on how easy it is to get a job in software. Out of the 30 students that went to my boot camp half of them dropped out and at the end of the day only 4 of us broke into the industry. All other boot camp graduates I've talked to have seen similar figures.

[@ameer6168]

Bootcamp are shit either learn yourself or go to university.

[@chop8557]

​@@ameer6168 i back this. bootcamps should be looked at as another tutorial not a degree.

[@meiyosei78]

Hey I may appreciate some inputs here. So I want to enroll in Informatics major (there's only a few CS major here in my country), the uni I'm aiming is pretty cheap but I rarely heard anyone talking about it. On the other hand, I've heard a lot about some bootcamps, which are all more expensive. I currently have an underpaid day job (which is pretty common here, unfortunately) and I'm hoping to switch my career. Should I enroll to uni or should I save more to enroll to a bootcamp? I'm also self-learning coding currently

[@ameer6168]

@@meiyosei78 go for university route degree is more important

[@NatashaEstrada]

Most boot camps their issue is the barrier of entry is too low so your going to get a lot of people that aren't suited to it.

[@leandrejones9787]

I feel this on a spiritual level. In 2021 I was introduced into programming but nothing came out of it as I was working full time and distracted. After a year of me working a dead end job I realized I needed to learn a skill and change my profession. In January 2023 I graduated from a Coding Bootcamp and since then I have not been able to find a job. I agree with everything you said because I am in the same boat age and all. I have given up on getting that new shiny programming job in 6 months and have now dedicated my time to going to school for Electrical Engineering. I wish you the best of luck in your career and life, but something I had to learn is that I am young and still have time to accomplish all of the things I desire and you do too.

[@BlazerOpOp]

Bro just keep working it’s a serious grind

[@fruitcrepes4875]

Sounds like you learned it the hard way but for devs/engs projects are everything. The more projects and repos can you provide helps a lot without a degree. Learning how to code is one step in the stone (bootcamp), gaining experience through projects and/or work is the second step into developing valuable and hire-able skill sets. Congrats!

[@sagecoder8802]

Agreed. He only started getting offers after completing his startup project. Of course he had gotten a degree too, but he insists his project was the one thing respondents poked at.

[@nandomax3]

Hi! I'm also a mechanical engineer made into softaware engineer. But I did it diferently, 2 years before graduating, I tried my best to land a SW dev internship and i kickstarted my carrer from zero to where I'm now. Internships helps a lot when we have so little knowledge about the craft.

[@michaelalgie]

Just subscribed man! this has been so reassuring, I had the same idea, self taught for a year then bit the bullet and enrolled on a software engineering degree, I'm currently in my first year and its the best decision I have made on my journey. Its not easy but if you have a passion for it, it opens up a lot of doors. Your start-up project is awesome keep up the good work.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Im glad this video brought you some clarity. And im here to reassure you again that school really does open so many opportunities. To make the most out of your software engineering career, you should pursue a degree to maximize your opportunities. You'll be the best version of yourself with that degree man, trust me!! Good luck on your journey man and thank you for supporting the channel!

[@linonator]

I got my SWE job before I got my associates after trying to self learn (I had 0 experience before) and it wasn’t easy to get that job but I networked my way to it. Then I kept learning as much as I possibly could 1. Because I enjoyed it and 2. I didn’t want to work retail again. Learn the fundamentals, keep practicing and if you’re only chasing the money the long hard nights will become less motivating. Now that I like back at 2020 I’m happy I kept trying after giving up multiple times

[@HieronymousLex]

Really needed to hear this. I’m graduating with an associates in IT-sec this spring and have been worried sick and full of regret. I’m 27 and really wish I would have taken life more seriously and done a 4 year CS degree. I was literally a major alcoholic heroin addict in my late teens and it took me half me 20s to rebuild my life and become a decent, well-adjusted and healthy person because I missed so much development. But I just need to keep working hard every day and building my skills, it’s gonna be a long road. My goal is not to develop software initially but to work my way up the IT ladder slowly gaining more certs and experience. DevOps is something I’d like to shoot for eventually. I’m passionate about all sorts of areas in tech and I felt like IT would be a good way to enter the waters. I hope it all works out. I know I’ll be helpdesk first but I’m hoping I can land a SOC role with some certs and keep working on my coding skills on the side

[@bakerstreet101]

You aren't in a bad position. Companies often prefer people with zero experience and potential over employees with experience.

[@X21XXI]

If there's one thing I've learned from struggling and finally breaking into the software engineering industry as a graduate, it's that Javascript , SQL and PHP developers NEVER run out of work or job offers, like ever. Hope your journey into software engineering becomes more rewarding and fulfilling, it's not easy, but it's so much fun.

[@byRoyalty]

tech recruiter here - not a lot of companies use php and 60+ % of devs have javascript/sql so they aren’t really going to make you stand out in any way. best bet is specializing in a common stack/language and getting good at it

[@arsenal_84]

Focus on java instead. JS got more frameworks unless you are able to master node.JS, react.JS and angular.JS for both backend and frontend which are specific on JS else most enterprise apps in banks are mostly focus on java through springboot.

[@StefanBlur]

​@@byRoyaltyMost part of the internet runs on PHP (online Shops, Wordpress,...)

[@josepchwill1304]

Along my journey towards my first position, a 3-month contract that lasted 6 months, I thought of every interview as a learning experience. I always thanked those who interviewed me for their time and said it was a great learning opportunity. I finished a bachelor of science in IT with a minor in programming and software development in 2019; however, I never found a job until 2022, after I finished a coding boot camp to go along with that. I have volunteered as a mentor for software developer interns as a member of an IT association since graduating in 2019. I continued to develop and learn more skills and technologies. I enjoy helping others whenever I can, and being able to mentor has helped me a lot. Even when I was having difficulty finding a position, I would still do what I could to help interns find their first post-internship position; being able to help others helps me stay positive and motivated in life. I would note, after seeing your app, that I personally struggle with mental illness, primarily PTSD, from military service. It has made things difficult, but I keep fighting and moving forward. Thanks for the video.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Your story is amazing. This is a field that requires a lot of discipline and patience! Patience truly is a virtue. Thank you for helping many interns, its a tough time out here for many of them. Your story inspires me to always push forward even through mental health struggles. It definitely makes things so much more difficult, but we can't ever give up. Thank you for sharing.

[@tacsmith]

Self taught and made it. I did a bootcamp for 3 months and got a job the day I graduated. Different times though as this was pre covid. Now I have experience enough that I can apply to senior positions.

[@Spectrum3900]

Great video and story - I am a front end engineer of 15 years - and I agree - when I interview people I usually look at skills and able to adapt and be agnostic to any situation - frameworks do not matter. I come from Sound engineering and 3D animator degrees and took Web Dev as a minor. I would suggest people being full stack since it will be more interesting for employers since you can be moved around as needed. Being a generalist with a published app/website with tons of live traffic is great to experience. Degrees do not matter. I had my degree before all the new frameworks - i had to learn new things all the time so I would recommend that you do not be attached to any language or frameworks. And make tons of quality projects and not side project - make them like you want to sell them on Flippa or appeal to paying customers.

[@robertmccully2792]

Same in all fields, everyone says they can build something, but few can build and than lead. I started my own company at 21 doing construction,, i really did not know what i was doing and not making much money, but i was getting experience. Than i hired a company to do some work for me which they did. Than they asked if i wanted a job to work with them at 1/2 the pay. But i could see these guys were real pros at there job. After 2 years working for them and some pay raises i learned in those two years what would have taken me twenty on my on. I never went to trade school. Decide what you want to do, stay out of debt while your in the learning phase ,so you not trapped. I then went on to other company's learning more and more. The other jobs always put me in charge because they saw i was willing to try anything and could get it done. We never stop learning, if you stay in one job doing one thing you will be trapped. GO FOR IT!

[@EricMazzoni]

Everything you said resonated with me as someone who is self-taught in writing, editing, and SEO. I have a graphic design degree but never did anything much with it professionally. It took me almost 5 years to get my first professional writing/ editing/SEO job going the self-taught route because I refused to go back to school for a more relevant degree. Ultimately, what landed me my first role was improving my interview skills, talking about my education journey, and being comfortable showing my writing and SEO projects and talking about them critically. Had I gone back to school, I probably could have shortened the timeline by 2-3 years and given myself a better foundation for the future. However, after finally getting what I wanted, and having a solid 7-ish years of professional experience, I am back at square one, looking into a career change. I am taking Coursera's Google Data Analytics course, and I am also eyeing the IT course and a few other things related to coding. I really have no idea what I want to do next, but I just know that this career path does not offer the future I want. What really stinks is that I had the opportunity to go back to school and learning CS or something related to IT. But I didn't. I was certain everything would just work itself out. With that said, now that you have this awesome AWS role, do not stop learning and growing. You can take time to enjoy what you have accomplished, but be wary of falling back into that mindset of, "I can just do it later." There may come a time when you realize you want something else, and you will kick yourself for not laying the groundwork for that future today. Also, remember that nobody is alone in this. There are people in their 50s and 60s who had 6-figure careers who were executives earning 6-figures and are now fighting to get an entry-level role paying $45K~55K. Good luck, and keep posting videos!

[@CalculusCoder.]

Very inspirational story bro. Thank you for sharing your story and things you’ve learned along the way. Also thanks for supporting the channel!

[@ryanmatthews5771]

Jobs will come back, it's not a bubble. The economy just isn't there right now. You got this dude.

[@shinshenron5425]

Great video man, im going to graduate this December of 2023, and most companies skim over me because, well im pretty sure because i don’t have a project like yours. People getting laid off is definitely upping the bar for a entry level software engineer. It really sucks but i guess thats the new game now :/ Great video.

[@CodingWithQui]

This is one of the best developer stories i swear. I had almost the same experience breaking in but i got lucky right before I was going to try to get a degree. I feel like even with experience adegree and side projects still opens a lot of doors. I have 2 years of experience right now and I haven't had one interview in the past 6 months, but I haven't made a side project since I started working so I know what I have to do now.

[@greysonbennett6788]

Damn I failed way back in 2016, but I didn't want to tell anyone cause I was embarrassed. All in all it still worked out, but things could've gone differently. Thanks for this video glad to know that I wasn't the only one.

[@jamesbandz1]

I think alot of Self Taught Developers weren't ready for 2023 (I'm one of them). There's definitely a big pivot shift from degrees to experience. I've been talking with recruiters from a staffing agency (Robert Half) and they pretty much tell me that in order to get somewhere you have to have experience within the field. I feel like that makes self taught alittle better in some ways because you are doing nothing but writing your own code, making projects, learning different tech stacks on a day to day basis. Here's how I see it: Degree + No experience = A chance No Degree + 2-3 years of experience = A higher chance No degree + no experience = Little to no chance Some degree + some experience (1 yr) = A chance

[@jwoods9659]

I joined them too they never hit me back. Basically companies only want to hire people that have experience. When they hire a newb, you are worth double the pay and you can get hired somewhere else. My focus is not getting a job, I'm a developer even if I don't have a job. You can't narrow down this skill to just another job. That is why they can't get jobs. These companies look at this the same way dating works. If you can create a app that solves a problem then you don't need a freaking job.

[@UNMEASURED100]

Degrees are actually useless in this field.

[@jwoods9659]

All that matters are skills. Start a startup then apply. Companies only want people that have a ability not to need them.@@UNMEASURED100

[@UberEverywhereSKRT]

lol no. I dont have one but ur totally wrong. Its slowly getting saturated and no degree with no internship vs degree with internship will make a huge difference @@UNMEASURED100

[@josephjohnson1057]

@@UNMEASURED100I wouldn’t say useless. If you had no programming then a degree is useless.

[@josephcooney6690]

Dude you are not alone, the same thing happened to me, more than once. Keep your head up young man and I know you will make it through this, you are very bright and self-aware, for a young person this is uncommon. You will make it through.

[@m-ok-6379]

Reality is when the job market you will get bombarded with recruiters and the exact opposite happens when the market turns south. You did not fail, you just found how bad the job market is for tech. Really happy for your journey and not giving up.

[@trentirvin2008]

On the upswing of the continuous boom bust cycle all the doom and gloom about software jobs will go away lol

[@JoeSchmoe-mp3pm]

This is a great video. You have an awesome attitude. I am self taught, but I think I am also an exception. There were no bootcamps when I grew up. In fact personal computers were very rare. I think there was one house in my entire neighborhood and it wasn’t my house. I learned from my brother’s high school programming book and then from personal projects.I am older now. I learned to program when I was 8 and back then my teachers told me I was wasting my time. I simply learned to code because I enjoyed it. It was a hobby.

[@rayosman-r3h]

i extremely resonate with what you said in the video. Thank you for sharing! It made me feel stronger!

[@CalculusCoder.]

Love to hear it, Keep pushing brother

[@jameswright44]

Just started my coding software engineer career. I’m in my first bootcamp was ever and know nothing about coding other than what I’ve learned over the last 2 weeks. My camp started Nov 27th! And I’m already lost lol. But I appreciate the vid and def taking everything in

[@ko.c.2699]

Your mental health app is so similar to what I wanted to do. I was worried about ethical concerns, as it's basically asking an LLM trained on mental health conversational dataset to give medical advice. This is better than nothing for many people though. Will be closely following your future content on that startup. Very inspiring channel for future developers. Blessings.

[@Y0ungC0der-h6r]

You are relentless. dude. The fact you are able to self reflect on your short comings and figure out another game plan to be successful in the future. That separates the boys from the men. I am wrapping up my BS major in SWE and its tough. I to have went the self taught route. I decided to go back to college since I had th recourses to do so. Dealing with classes that I know I won't need. Classes that I am not interested in.The amount of information, sacrifices with friends and family...But I know it will be worth it. I graduate next year in March 2025. Thank you for posting this video. I am doing my best to hold on and it is nice to hear stories from others about their EX. It reminds me that I am not alone and my situation is not so bad. Good luck on your journey my dude. You deserve a better future.

[@CalculusCoder.]

I appreciate you brother! I agree with everything you said. Stay resilient and tough bro, you’re going to go very far. Your putting in the work and making the sacrifices, I have no doubts your future is set for you. I also struggled with the useless classes dilemma. It’s so many mixed emotions when enrolling back into school. Keep up the good work and thank you for the comment. It’s a tough time for many of us, but we gotta keep moving.

[@Yousaf_Yunes]

Amazing reflection man! Shit didn't change until I started my own company.

[@hyzerfl1p]

The best thing about you is your attitude. This is a huge plus for you. Goodluck..

[@umacasaaarder7546]

Thank you for this video! I really needed to hear this today because I have 4 years of experience but just one year as DevOps/SRE Engineer. Today I received that failed in the selection process of a remote company that didn't fail me because of just having 1 year, but because of the non confidence at the technical level. I will start a project in my free time as you said to add to my curriculum. Thank you a lot for this video. 🙌

[@tonynlemadim3679]

Great Video! Thanks for sharing this experience. 2023 has really been a mental health challenger for programmers and tech workers in general. Your story is really encouraging.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thank you !

[@giraffe558]

Currently an undergrad graduating with bachelors in Spring. It is dead silent on the job hunt. Buddy of mine graduating this semester is having the same issue. It’s affecting everyone. I think it really is about just getting experience anywhere at first to get off the ground. Don’t be picky

[@AIRRAZOR44]

Right, many hiring freezes are in place now that people in HR, Recruiting have been laid off to appease major stakeholders

[@Jormmg]

Just saw this video so I'm a little late, I find your story inspiring but also it reinforces a belief that I've been developing over my time self studying. You basically have to make your own product or business before the corporate industry will take you seriously as a self taught dev, and at that point I might as well just keep working on my product or business. It's like a catch-22 "If you want us to hire you, show us that you barely need us in the first place." The more stories I hear about how corporate works the more tempted I am to just go at it alone lol.

[@AIRRAZOR44]

Not really. It depends on the state of the economy. I got many offers in 2012 while still in community college the economy was on fire with growth - I ended up dropping out & self studied with codecademy, freecodecamp which was free at the time The Fed interest rate began to climb, many tech companies overhired based on bad prediction that most people will continue to work from home (C19) We didn’t enter a tech bubble it was a hiring bubble - when PMs & HRs cuts hiring for the current year - next year’s hiring budget will be smaller to match Most companies have switched to right sizing, according to Revilo software engineers make up 20% of tech employees that were laid off, the highest percentage in the report. Software Engineers are a very expensive asset for company growth & a very expensive liability for reaching profitability

[@CalculusCoder.]

Hey man thanks for the comment! I honestly agree with you. After seeing how corporate America operates and all the dirty “politics” behind it, I’m pushing myself to start my own things and be an entrepreneur or business owner. I’m focusing on my startups and my other side hustles in 2024. I’m working at a big company today and tomorrow I’m laid off. It’s tough times right now.

[@Equliberator]

"If you want us to hire you, show us that you barely need us in the first place." I think you've hit upon the Fundamental Theorem of Life. Put negatively: "No one needs needy people."

[@csengineers_code]

Great video man, thanks for sharing your story! For the aspiring developers watching this (self-taught, bootcamp and cs grads), are you randomly applying to every junior position that you encounter? Do you have at least 1 solid project that you're showcasing on your online portfolio, resume, LinkedIn profile, and GitHub account? Are you applying to remote work? I ask because it is going to be hard to standout applying to any software development job, without projects and competing with the entire country or world for remote positions. Therefore, pick a field and a technology, for example, front-end development with React (just an example), create 3-4 solid projects using that technology, showcase those projects on your resume, online portfolio, LinkedIn profile, and GitHub account. Then apply to positions related to that technology. At least you will start standing out and getting interviews. Good luck on your journey 👋

[@TheAniki94]

Best advice I've seen in ages man!

[@butterpecanrican_]

I'm scrolling through the comments on this video and I'll be damned. Everyone is so supportive. Such a rare thing these days and so nice to see :)

[@yoda6051]

ONE Step back, TWO Steps forward! Keep up the good work, bruddah!

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thanks man!

[@trinityanderson2010]

Thank you for honest story of your experience! You are not alone.

[@phoenix-walker]

Sound advice. It's good to see both sides of the coin. Good luck on your journey!

[@andrewgeary9749]

Your timing was really tough. Remember that tens of thousands of people who already have professional experience have been laid off in every sector of tech in the past year. It seems layoffs have peaked but probably haven't finished yet, and there isn't cash flowing into new companies/projects. In maybe 1 or 2 years the trend should be people looking for employees instead of people looking for jobs again.

[@chadwicktyrone8894]

Appreciate the honest video, not these other fake success story videos 👏🏿

[@Wordisgood]

I'm in the same boat, but I refuse to say "FAILURE", especially in a time where Federal interest rates in the U.S. are the highest in 22 years--and people who've been doing tech for over a decade are getting laid off. It truly is among the worst times to be trying to get into the industry, and I believe things will get better again on the hiring aspect.

[@michaelucho]

I thoroughly enjoyed watching your video and appreciated how you articulated several key points. As someone who recently retired from my position as a Front End Web Developer at one of the leading insurance firms in the US, I couldn't agree more with your insights. Reflecting on my career, I remember how, twenty years ago, having a strong grasp of JavaScript opened up numerous opportunities in the field. However, as time progressed, I witnessed the job market becoming increasingly saturated with new graduates from accredited colleges, armed with their degrees, as well as individuals who had self-studied or attended Bootcamps. While having both experience and a degree certainly provides a solid foundation for entering the field, it's essential to acknowledge that it's not a guaranteed pathway. The competition for securing a job in this industry can be incredibly fierce, requiring not only technical proficiency but also the ability to stand out amidst a sea of qualified candidates. Your insights shed light on the evolving landscape of the tech industry and serve as a valuable resource for navigating its challenges. Thank you for sharing your experience. Best of wishes! and congrats on you application

[@MiSt3300]

I was 22 when I landed my first internship as it was in early 2022. I also got my own large project (a Facebook clone with an integrated messenger) and that helped considerably

[@jacoblo574]

Don't worry. I was in the same position as you. However, I realized there is more to life. You need to find the passion you enjoy and pursue it whether for money or not.

[@CalculusCoder.]

That’s the move bro! 🙏🏼

[@RamsTestchannel]

Great video man! Really informative as someone currently exploring what it takes to break into this field. Keep making videos man

[@CalculusCoder.]

Glad I could provide some insight bro. Good luck and thank you!!

[@discotecc]

We're grinding it out

[@danielbelousov7430]

Good luck to you man! It is really cool how you can speak live on camera without many cuts

[@ozhoneybadger]

Hopefully, you get far mate? You are resilient. There might be something way better out there.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thanks bro. Appreciate you

[@devgabriel6898]

Saturation is real. I landed my first job on Juanuary2020 before pandemic. I remember, it was a React Native junior job, and only other 7 devs applied with me. We launched the same call next year, and 500+ applied 2022 more than 1200 application This days, in 2023, if u dont have at the very least 2+ years of real experience on IT, better move towards the education title, otherwise, it is nearly impossible to land a first job. Another problem that first world countries are facing, is the staff augmentation with IT people from third world countries (such as mine, Argentina... or India). Cause they pay us 5k/mont and we re rich here, but in the US an average salary for a SWE is like 9-15k month. Americans companies tend to hire from South América due to very little time zone difference, and Europe is more likely to hire from India, for the same reason. Right now im working for an US banking company, and most of the engineers are from India, Argentina, Brasil, Chile and Mexico... Just a few from the US.

[@eleegalz]

Bro Your boring story is someone else's LESSON, keep uploading 🗿🗿🗿

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thank you brother !!!!

[@mark8200]

Pro tip : Self taught isn't an officially recognised qualification. But you got this champ your a top guy

[@rtothec1234]

That bubble anecdote is so true. I remember going to Subway a month ago and the sandwich maker had seen me there so often that I was a regular. I go there Tuesday and Thursday every evening cause those are the days I drive to work and also go to Subway on Saturdays sometimes. Now, I tend to dress pretty slovenly on the weekends. I dress like a slob. Sweatpants and hoodies. And on weekdays I wear a raggedy coat. So if you look at me you would be correct in assuming I probably work in a warehouse or as a construction worker. Anyways, back to the Subway worker. One day he got chatty and asked why I came in the same times each time and I said “oh I’m coming back from work and I’m too tired to cook”. And then he asked what I do and I said: “Oh I’m a programmer.” Cause it’s true. I work for a company as a senior tech lead and I do long hours on a hybrid schedule. Do pretty well for myself and have been for a while. But anyways, the sandwich guy assumed I was just breaking in cause he says to me: “oh yeah I’m also a developer too. Self taught. I’m getting good at React. ” which I thought “good for him.” So I asked if Subway was a side gig but he told me still has yet to actually break in the industry. Also he was considering his own startup but has no ideas yet. He also talked about all the things he liked about React. At this point I decided not to say much more about myself cause I don’t like to talk about myself anyway and wanted to leave and eat my sandwich. As I’m leaving he says to me: “don’t worry bro! It’s a tough profession but you’ll get your break soon!” I just smiled, winked and did the gun point and tongue click. 😉👉 and said “thanks dude.” I liked his optimism and confidence. He’ll probably be really successful in the future with that outlook. More people need that. But it was a surreal moment. That’s when I realized: “every one is getting into this profession.” which is usually one of the signs of a bubble.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Sounds exactly like what I experienced back in 2021-2022. It still feels the same way now in 2024. I really hope things to improve for other devs. I’m thankful to be starting a role now in the summer, but almost all my friends with CS degrees are still unemployed. Some people are arguing that there was no bubble, but I truly believe there was and it popped. Hoping things recover now. Thank for your story bro

[@username7763]

I have a soft-spot for self taught. I taught myself BASIC programming when I was around 8 and C when I was around 11. But as a hiring manager, I haven't been able to take bootcamp students seriously. I've had bootcamp grads apply to senior software engineer positions where they had less time in bootcamp than how long I had the job posted. The bootcamps recruit students with how lucrative software can be. But I don't want an engineer in it just for the money, I want people who like what they do. You may love what you do, but you are lumped in with everyone else who is in it for the money. Recruitment takes time and it is easier to skip a group of people when 95% of them wouldn't work. The big things you miss compared to a college degree is all the things you didn't know even existed. You learn a programming language or technology and that's it. Here are some of the things I know that generally self-taught don't. Algorithms and data structures including algorithm analysis, what's going on behind the language you are working in, what instructions the CPU is running, how a CPU works (I've designed a simple CPU before), memory management, theory of computation and mathematical thinking, how networking works and what goes on behind it, why software projects fail, SCM practices, QA practices, software team structure and process, business finance and accounting, technical writing. And many more that I'm not thinking of at the moment. A specific programming language or technology you know is important, but there is so much more to the field than that.

[@Rust_Rust_Rust]

And then there's me who's self taught who doesn't know half of that and got 2 job offers in the beginning of 2023

[@username7763]

@@Rust_Rust_Rust everyone starts somewhere. Never stop learning.

[@juggles5474]

I’m about ready to give up. I went back for a second degree in CS, about to finish, and I cannot get an internship to save my life. I’m just so tired of the hoops they expect you to jump through just to get a job, it’s insane. Really appreciate this video though - sometimes the best thing to do is to give up and try something else.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Do not give up man. Keep applying to jobs, even if they arent exaclty SWE. My friend is applying to other tech jobs that aren't exactly SWE and hes having some luck. It isn't what he signed up for, but they pay is basically the same as a SWE. Once hes in I think he may ask for a transfer to a SWE job. Something is going to give for you! And ofc man, just want to bring clarity to the community. Keep pushing!

[@juggles5474]

@@CalculusCoder.appreciate that man. I’m definitely going to be opening up my search for non-swe stuff, at this point I’ll be happy with anything in that world

[@CalculusCoder.]

@@juggles5474 yea bro that’s a good move. Wishing you the best on your journey 🙏🏼

[@jjjj5452]

People don't realize how hard it is to get into tech. You HAVE to stand out, and unfortunately a calculator, to-do list, landing pages are not going to cut it. The hardest part is not learning or following tutorials, but it is applying what you know and making something different.

[@ShahidFoy]

Good inspirational story glad you're breaking through

[@luiselydoza192]

Far from failing. There are students that graduated with their degrees and are also struggling to get jobs. This is is an issue that everyone is facing right now as everything is competitive. Keep pushing, you got this!

[@d.o.nmuzic3802]

Great info and content. One request: can you please record your audio a little louder? Thank you for sharing your journey 🙏🏾

[@KayGee_yt]

That idea that 2023 was not the year is SO TRUE. I was a graphic designer. Worked 2 years, including at a fortune 500 (3 years if you add internships) and got laid off in 2023. I did a UX boot camp and figured it was a good time to make the switch not realizing everyone else got laid off too. Now, I've accepted a job outside of design and am going to spend the year freelancing and am considering getting my master's too. 2025 I'll see what the market is like and try again if applicable but throwing applications at an impossible situation is much more stubborn than it is persistent. Hit the nail on the head. Congrats on your new role!

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thank you for sharing your story. Stay persistent, you’re working hard for it. Good luck on your journey and thank you for your kind words!

[@arilist5987]

As a computer science graduate, I genuinely feel like it was worth pursuing a bachelor's. I'll admit, I probably didn't learn that many more practical skills than someone at a boot camp. Sure I learned a lot about algorithms and machine learning, but those have been pretty much useless in the industry. Something people don't talk about enough is having that piece of paper saying I graduated. Companies are looking at a whole lot of resumes, and they're looking for ways to filter people out. I think boot camp graduates genuinely have the tools to do well as software engineers, but it's just so tough to find a job when most companies will be petty about their applicants.

[@CalculusCoder.]

Just 2-4 years ago, self taught devs had the upper hand. I seen alot of people talking down on degrees, saying you can learn coding in 6 months - 1.5 years and get a job. Yes its true, school teaches 3 years of useless information and only 1 year is applicable to your career. Yes its true, everything school teaches you can teach yourself for a couple of dollars of late fees in the library (Good Will Hunting), but no one will employ you without that piece of paper. Now, CS students have the upper hand. Its becoming increasingly impossible to break in without a degree. It sucks companies are doing this, but its how things are in 2023.

[@MuzixMaker]

@@Larp012355 to 6 years to get a bachelors degree ? SMH

[@milt0n290]

@@MuzixMakerCS student 🤚🏽. Absolutely! I was a Bio and chemistry student my first 2 years. I went back 1.5 years ago. I have 15 months left and debating going over seas for a PHD to wait out the job market. $15k for both years total at a top university with $200 per month rent and working as a CS/English tutor in Japan. 5years for a bachelor’s isn’t abnormal especially in complex degrees. Tbh I randomly picked Software without knowing anything about the job market or pay. I just remembered doing Uber Eats at an office about 5 years ago and getting a $140 tip. I asked the guy what they did and he said software engineering. I just moved to San Diego from Texas in the oilfield and I remember people online talking about learning to code instead. It’d been in the back of my mind for about 3 years and I just assumed it was chill because of the work culture there and just thought they made like $70k when I went to school again. I honestly just wanted a work or student visa to travel

[@Art-is-craft]

@@CalculusCoder. The piece of paper has no bearing. What school a person attends or graduates from is more important as is the skill level of the person. No business cares about the actual diploma only that a person can actually do the job.

[@masterDarts4188]

@@Larp01235 That actually makes the most sense to me. Because some colleges just upload their entire curriculum online now a days. But the concept of someone with a degree means they have consistency studying for years in comparison to someone who just did it for 6 months.

[@katsup_07]

Failing is just a step on the road to success. The important thing is that you try to understand why you failed, accept it, and then seek out ways to amend the problem. This is essentially the recipe to doing anything successfully in life. If you give up, you fail 100% of the time. If you don't give up, the longer you stick with it and follow the process above, the more the probability of success will increase over time.

[@BernicePezuzu]

Thank you for this video 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾 too many boot camps out there selling dreams for thousands of dollars. Thank goodness i didn’t sign up for a bootcamp. And i have officially given up self study. I’m going back to school to get me a degree and a bunch of certifications I’ll be right back 😅. Thanks again for this video and your resilience and ability to look back and fix the problem is commendable 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@CalculusCoder.]

Thank you! Im glad you didn't fall into that. You made a great decision by going back to school, a degree opens up so much opportunities (networking, internships, entry level positions). I appreciate your kind words!

You can be self-taught and get a good programming job, but just applying for random jobs is probably the most inefficient way to get there. In the current year, most of the job listings already have candidates before they are announced. It's a colossal waste of time to send many applications and go to interviews. You'll just get demotivated. Instead, you need to build an interesting portfolio, contribute to open-source projects, and network with insiders (people who do the job you want to do). If you do everything right, you should be familiar to people who do the hiring before the position is even open. If you have a friend on the inside who can recommend you (and, of course, good skills so that this recommendation is honest), you can land a great programming job fairly quickly, and you'll get offers before you even apply.

[@WewCode]

Hey dude, we kind of have a similar path. I tried self-taught, worked my ass off, but as you said, there were a lot of layoffs, the economy wasn't doing well, and CS majors were all ahead of us. I ended up going back to school. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of going for MIS. I still managed to get an internship that I'll start in January. The hope is that I'll get a return offer (they explicitly said they will hire interns if they do well). Good luck with everything, man.

[@MrSofazocker]

Damn, I'm in a similar situation, but decided exactly opposite^^ I was at UNI studying media, but got a job at a startup. Already in the first year of uni i thought i already know what they were teaching, then covid hit and during online classes (that also were pre-recorded etc), i could compare the resources what my uni gave me and what i already gathered over the years before self-learning while being in school, and really thought my online resources were far superior to the now online teaching at my uni. After getting the student job at the start-up they already asked me, "where have I been?" as they could have needed me right when I started uni already. Doing uni and the parttime job, I realized almost nothing I use at work I learn at uni, there was literally like 10% overlap. The other 90% was stuff I already know. So I decided to go full-time and drop out of uni. I since have way more free-time, do what I always have done, learn what I'm interested in and apply it by building projects, just now they are actual products for users and I get paid^^

[@rotface6969]

insane though that what it takes is start-up level projects to get noticed. it's good to program outside of your degree, but it's crazy that we have to do so much extra work on top of a college degree to get certain opportunities. That is sort of the game we have to play, so don't let that discourage you. It definitely puts things into perspective that college is now 'get the piece of paper that says you're employable.' There may be a few classes you take that are useful, there will be a ton of classes that are not, haha. Again, it's becoming more about getting that piece of paper + plus all of the extra things you do on top of that. You have to work very hard, and you should work hard. It's just crazy that it takes so much to get crumbs.