I Found Out Why Space Trains Are a Bad Idea

Welcome to another episode of Trailmakers! Today I want to build a space train! It's like a train, but in space. Will physics agree with me?
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About Trailmakers:
In the toughest motoring expedition in the universe, you and your friends will build your own vehicles to cross a dangerous wasteland. Explore, crash horribly, use your wits to build a better rig, and get as far as you can with whatever spare parts you find on your way.
Welcome to the Ultimate Expedition!
Journey over grueling mountains, hazardous swamps, and bone-dry deserts on a distant world far from civilization - it is just you, your fellow adventurers and the amazing, jet-powered hover-buggy you built yourself. Explore, crash your vehicle, build a better one, and get as far as you can with whatever spare parts you find along your way.
Trailmakers is about building very awesome vehicles and machines, but you don’t need an engineering degree to get started. The intuitive builder will get you going in no time. Everything you build is made from physical building blocks. Each block has unique features like shape, weight and functionality. They can be broken off, refitted and used to build something new. Individually the blocks are fairly simple, but combined the possibilities are endless.
Expedition Mode is the challenging campaign mode of Trailmakers. You are competing in an off-world rally expedition with only a few building blocks to get you started. You must build, tinker with and rebuild your machine to progress. Journey through a big world, overcome deep gorges, angry wildlife and dangerous weather to progress and find new parts that will juice up your machine. The world in Expedition Mode will test your survival skills and ingenuity.
Sandbox Mode is where you want to head for an unrestricted, sandbox, vehicle-building experience. Here you can build anything you can dream of, and play around with it in the world of Trailmakers. It is a great place to test out crazy machines, and experiment with the physics engine. With tons of different blocks, hinges, thrusters and interactive vehicle parts - the skybox is the limit.
Trailmakers is even more fun if you play it with other people. Build cool vehicles and compete in mini-game modes with your friends or other Trailmakers online. Build a helicopter, send it to your friend, and shoot them out of the sky. Put two seats on a tank, and let your friend control the turret. As we get further in Early Access development Expedition Mode will also be adapted to multiplayer.
Learn more about the game on www.playtrailmakers.com #scrapman #trailmakers

[@ismaelbergmann3282]

I think the problem is, that the moment, when the carts reach the same velocity as the locomotive, they aren't dragged anymore and won't follow the locomotive's course because the velocity is equal.. So what you need is drag on the carts of some sorts, so that they always try to slow down and to give the locomotive a chance to pull them again in the direction, you want..

[@ThePhonax]

That’s what the quantum rudders were for, but then the quantum rudders made everything freak out because trailmakers physics

[@ziplineslowdown6782]

​@@ThePhonaxhe should add something like week reverse thrust to each cart

[@TyIzIt]

@@ziplineslowdown6782What will reverse thrust do?

[@zacrosamond3128]

@@TyIzItprovide a force to each carriage analogous to drag

[@wiktorgreda2124]

​@@ziplineslowdown6782 thats exactly what I wanted to say. Beacause rudders in this case messing things up, so we need to replace them with slight amount of backward thrust on the very last cart or on every individual cart so it will drag the carts backwards like friction do in real life and that should work as intended

[@tjalvotron]

Maybe using space thrusters to give the carts a little amount off backwards thrust

[@neogalford]

Yes, this would give them simulated drag.

[@m.h.6470]

would have to be perfectly aligned with the couplers/hinges, otherwise the carts would be pushed towards the opposite side of the thruster position.

[@35manning]

One forward thruster on the train and one backwards thruster on the very last cart, both at the same power setting and always on. This will try to stretch out the train which will pull everything into a straight line like a rope. Adjust number of thrusters and power to suit. Then do normal power on the train to drive it.

[@W0B0N]

@@35manning This makes sense to me. I would like to see it done in the game.

[@upisaurus]

ohh a starrail

[@vanessa211]

How to break the speed record. 1. Go to Space 2. Build train 3. Move 4. Profit This is such an interesting side-effect of the train wrapping in on itself.

[@JoshuaGanoTyraxLightning]

Someone oughta show Storm this and see if he can turn it into the next new cool glitch propulsion. :D

[@steeljawX]

And here scientists are trying to figure out worm holes when they really ought to be looking into "Train Tunnels". A whole lot more violent and random, but you'll get from point A to point not-A really fast.

[@ethandye8764]

the KSP physics kraken is alive and well here

[@LeFishu666]

Maybe try adding some tiny thrusters on the last cart facing backwards (to create an artificial drag with quantum rudders only on the engine to correct the direction of the movement)

[@DavidBrown-uy8xw]

Hey Scrapman, What if you put another engine on the back that pulled in the opposite direction as a caboose. It would make you go slower but it could allow you to create an artificial sense of weight and drag that could straighten it out.

[@Videoharbor]

I did that for my train.

[@justinpatterson5291]

Give it some synthetic air resistance. Have a delayed counter thruster activate for every movement you make.

[@SapioiT]

Your wagons' center of thrust (the trailer hinge) is below the center of drag (the quantum rudders). To solve the issue, simply move the quantum rudders to be in line with the trailer hinge(s). And you can use space thrusters slow down the wagons, or add quantum rudders which to act as breaks.

[@DaysofKnight]

Would still love to see a Trailmakers battle (land or air, your choice) where you have shields that you can only take out with EMP weaponry before you're allowed to shoot the creation with ballistic weapons only.

[@NightfurySkrill_Joel]

Kinda like the Halo Oversheild?

[@DanyF02]

The carts will start doing weird stuff the moment you're not accelerating to keep them straightened out, like as soon as you reach top speed. You could simulate that by adding backward thrust on the carts, making sure there's a bit more thrust in the ones further back. Just gotta make sure your front section can still over-power all of that. You'd be essentially creating drag. Just an idea.

[@suicidalbanananana]

Ohhh this is a good idea! It might also be possible to create drag with quantum rudders facing sideways.

[@shuttleman27c]

It would need to be exactly the opposite direction not just backwards

[@DanyF02]

@@shuttleman27c I tried it just to be sure, and it works just fine. Only needed the ones at the back as it turns out. It's like pulling a rope by both ends to straighten it out.

[@squiddthekid5344]

I would have used the gyro stabilizers on sequentially delayed servos so your train or cars tilt around the stabilizers in order as if going up or down a hill

[@sethsuitor]

Yeah, I had the same problem with a smaller creation. You can't put quantum rudders on segments. They freak out. At least from my experience with them.

[@InfiniXCat]

It feels like it counts the segments as separate things Which makes sense when you think about how the rudders work

[@sethsuitor]

Yes, and no Mine didn't really have segments and it wasn't a train. It was just a space vehicle. It didn't like the hinges, though. Rudders and hinges don't go together well. on some creations.

[@notthatbad42]

I think putting suspension in each corner could have worked, though I’m not sure how you would build that

[@Suckynewb]

I think 4 sensors would be the way to do it. 1 sensor in each corner, have a weak stabilizer trying to keep them at a fixed distance from the car ahead. Don't know if that's possible in Trailmakers.

[@tylerphuoc2653]

Basically the same way how manually created hover vehicles work in Scrap Mechanic?

[@omar062696]

Hey Scrapman try using the hover pads to dampen the move movement of the trailers behind the train

[@ThePhonax]

Wait that’s genius lol

[@Kazuhira95]

just uploaded mine to the workshop, just using hover pads works to a certain extent but it will still tail whip, need to combine it with other stuff to make the train go faster. at least, that's how my experience went.

[@PeterDropveter-ev8lt]

Maybe place the rudders on the bottom so the trail actually looks like a train rail? :D

[@short0811]

I love Trailmakers, it's been my main game for the past 3 years, but I can't wait to see you get further in Crashlander!

[@Qugfvraceysgvigaivys]

Maybe putting the quantum rudders for the carts in line with the hinge will make it so the drag force is vertically aligned with the pivot and might help stabilize

[@moroblizniak4457]

2:13 HOLY SCRAP I didnt expect this train to look this good... well done on this one!

[@DaysofKnight]

I mean; it looks alright. I would go as far as you seem to think. It just look alright. Yzuei could definitely make something better

[@moroblizniak4457]

@@DaysofKnight Yuzis fan huh? It looks like Yuzi plays waaay more TM than Scrapman and thats why his builds looks better. I just didnt expect this train look that good becouse as Scrapman said, he goes for the funcion first.

[@PainApple96]

Pretty sure that if you would've used the steering hinges after you added the gyro's, it would've probably help with trailing behind on turns :)

[@locke_ytb]

Idea on the spherical Asteroid: A runner roams the asteroid while hunters fly around to disable the runner as fast as possible. Perhaps the runner can shoot back.

[@rltt379]

You may want to try adding thrusters at the last trailer in the opposite direction to make the 2 sides kind of pull on each other to straighten out, and also add some thrusters for compensation, no clue if it actually works, but definetly worth a shot

[@William_Kyle-Yuki_Yuuki]

From what I remember by all the versions of space trains I have seen in various media, for the most part they are very rigid vehicles with connected flexible tunnels between cars and the cars are not on loose connection but rather powered hinges that set maximum angles of rotation kind of like four wheel steering in cars.

[@Hyper_Fox06]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, they're more similar to the Japanese bullet trains. They have the accordion connection between cars with a more rigid connection perhaps at more points reducing the cars ability to turn/flex too much to the point that they whip around. For each car Scrap man added the worse the problem got. I have a mental image of how I would perhaps design it but I'm not certain that there are parts that would do what I'm thinking in the game yet.

[@William_Kyle-Yuki_Yuuki]

@@Hyper_Fox06 if I were to give it a go, I would use rotating servos set to like a maximum 5°rotation set to rotate the opposite direction I want to travel then return to neutral when the direction is released but on a slight delay on each to emulate each car entering and exiting a turn.

[@Hyper_Fox06]

@@William_Kyle-Yuki_Yuuki yeah sounds possible. I would get into the more technical breakdown but I haven't slept in.. over 24 hours so I can only mentally visualize what I want .. breaking it down into the parts needed and the programming required requires more brain function than I currently have 😂

[@SkyEcho751]

I know what you need, a time delay. Some method of making it so that they activate in order, some kind of sequence system so that when one thing activates, the next one activates a set time afterwards, and repeat for the steps. That's the only way I can think would work. Which would actually allow for systems to be made with more precision, because you wouldn't need 3+ buttons to deploy bombs. You could just create an activation order.

[@Random-gibberish]

You might be able to put the gyrostabilizers on rotating servos to get the train to stay locked in a direction.

[@bastsrbn]

little tip: NEVER PUT A QUANTUM RUDDER ON HINGED THINGS, THE CHIRPOES DOSEN'T LIKE IT!!! (also, floatings pads technique works without air and work very well for space-trains)(the technique for stabilized things ago)

[@JumaKamakura]

What if the hinges are in the center instead of in the bottom? Could be the way...

[@redstarwarrior85]

What if you had sensors on the carts on each side of the connector that are looking at the cart in front of it, tied to rockets that would fire to bring the cars back into line? The sensors would fire the rockets if the distance from the sensors to the cart in front is greater than a certain amount. Including those with the gyros would probably help with straightening everything back up quickly.

[@cyantasks7129]

21:04 the trails could make a good aesthetically looking railway if you managed to perfect the train cars

[@unownuserrr]

11:20 that was the most proud "i am a seven 😄" ever

[@MCwolfy]

I think the problem is that the quantum rudders aren't aligned with the point of rotation on the trailer hinges

[@Loop_Kat]

Glad I'm not the only one who's had difficulty with a build like this, lol. I recently built a space semi-truck and wanted to give it multiple trailers for carrying cargo with tractor beams, but even just having one trailer causes a lot of issues with zero-g movement. Watching this video gave me some ideas to play with though Quantum rudders and standard gyros are definitely necessary for their additional control and general dampening effects, but you know how you mentioned that the trailers just don't have enough drag? Well, adding reverse-firing thrusters to tail end of a trailer segment seems to satisfy that need fairly well. I added two thrusters (not the tiny ones, but one size up) to the rear of my trailer to add a low, but constant drag to forward movement, plus one thruster for lateral movement (yaw left/right), each triggered by respective speed sensors (2.2 kph forward, 5 kph for sides), and this seems to have reduced the spin out / jackknife effect quite a bit when not carrying cargo My build's complexity unfortunately doesn't allow me to add additional trailers, but this reverse thrust might help longer builds such as your space train. Beyond that, some of the other comments have mentioned it too, but linked vehicles like this might just need extra logic that applies lingering counter-rotation after most maneuvers, especially when it comes to actually hauling really heavy cargo like the giant crates in the space station

[@arthurenglert3160]

Hey Scrapman, i realize that in multiplayer you always did dog fighting in space, you should do with massive ships, like mother ships. Idk like 1000 blocks and 30 power core, something like that. Massive Builds fighting

[@Alon1706]

add springs with friction pads between the carts to keep directional stability and manufactured friction

[@user-uy1sg1mx9y]

love this but could we see spaceship evolution

[@hersical]

chaos is fun, so i kinda have an idea - car/tank fight - constant amount of engines - add about 75 blocks per round - add 2 weapons per round - game ends when theres 2 of each weapon the point is that both vehicles will go from fast armoured cars to giant bulky war machines

[@AngelboyVR]

i remember doing a space snake in Space engineers, since the physics there are a lot more stable and realistic overall. i ended up just needing to dampen sideways movement for each section, that was it. everything else was just natural physics doing the rest

[@xenomorphisisdilage472]

Use the sensor setup in the main engine for each, and set-up a logic using an angle sensor to delay the sensor activation.

[@coreytaggart128]

-Keep the engine, car one has 1 of something creating drag to slow it down, car two has 2, car three 3, and so on. This means the engine has to pull against them but each car going back slows more then the one in front of it forcing it to stay behind and they would also act as the brakes. Maybe a backward facing mini thrusters? -No backwards thrust because that will just break everything, forward and turning only. -Also may want to change the point of rotation for the engine to the back instead of the middle so it is more gradual in how it impacts the cars instead of a quick adjustment when the engine hinges around the center.

[@megatryn]

Did you have controls turned off on the quantum rudders added to the carts?

[@pindamonhangaba72]

The fix is adding some backward mini truster to slow down the carts and it will surelly act like drag and fix the issue of tailwhipping

[@mbrennecke]

The recent Battle Trains on land was one of the best episodes, Space Train was a bit of a wreck :)

[@publo1179]

You should try using the hoverpad glitch to fix the quantum rudder problem, Might fix it and also might not...

[@martingustafik7045]

try putting the gyros streng down as you go further back

[@crated_]

I think you need to change the propulsion. Change your speed controls to toggles. You can’t let off the gas, so have 1 set of if thrusters up front and 1set in back. Standard forward movement would use the front thrusters, to slow down activate the thrusters at the back to create drag and disable the front thrusters.

[@Diarmuid056]

Colour coded distance sensor thruster system to help stabilize 4 tier hinge systems as in one one each side or one on each corner

[@fenrirgaming37]

I would suggest using shocks to act as buffers, with the shocks set to keep the cars more or less in line with the engine.

[@dinoeebastian]

glad you didn't give up, I liked the aesthetic of the train

[@cyantasks7129]

put a delay on the hinges to create he successive effect perhaps and also use backwards thrust to create artificial drag

[@Dak498]

8:00 When Trailmakers gets Scrap Mechanic Syndrome.

[@barefootalien]

Hmm... I also thought of reverse thrusters on the cars. I think you were close with the strategy you were using, but maybe with one trailer hinge it'd work better? I also had a thought of using the gyros sort of like you would for motorcycle balancing, having them on spin blocks and time the instructions to the spinners. It could be a little like what you did with the steering hinges, only gentler, with damping. The quantum rudders' behavior actually did make sense to me, at least up until they just fully glitched out. I think you were thinking of them as a source of drag, but I think what they actually do is apply a force to the side. If you imagine yourself (with a normal ship) flying straight, then you yaw left, the quantum rudder doesn't so much pull the back around to counter the yaw; it pushes left to make your momentum shift as if going around a corner. So then imagine another rudder on the back car of the train, and when you start to turn, it _pushes_ that car to the side.

[@shinyian82]

This video is sponsored by Honkai Star rail

[@Woolfio]

I suspect adding backwards thrusters at the end of last cart may help.

[@plasticfrank]

Multiplayer idea: space tubing

[@JJP1890]

you need most of the drag on the last car but some on each and the drag force needs to be aligned with the hinges so the pulling force and drag forces aren't introducing rotation.

[@shadowwolf6869]

what about using steering hinges and adding control delays, then sorting angle adjustments to limit the movements, the trailers might simulate movements like the space train was on tracks still?

[@cyber0mega513]

Hey scrapman, i made a similar build on a different game and i found out, giving the trailers thrust or space rudders works really well

[@Mad_Max1069]

You need an Anker in the rear. They want to continue at the same speed even with a quantum tail fin in line. If you turn the tail fin to the side and forward it will produce drag in all directions making it want to stay where it was behind you.

[@Twisted1409]

A reverse thruster in the trailer at the rear to add drag, could be programmed to be automatic maybe with an override button.

[@GirusBetterThanVirus]

13:16 HULK SMASH

[@Fortplayzthis]

Try putting thrusters on each train cart I tried it in another game to make a space worm and it worked smoothly

[@chettiarsirusraj9501]

Maybe add just one Quantum rudder for vertical and horizontal drag at the back of the last train cart instead of two in each direction to avoid oscillation and give a small amount of drag to the train carts which should be enough for the train to avoid whipping out.

[@GreenTheem]

If curious still, on your own time, try powered wings/tailfins They might have drag even in space A good few of my space creations use them instead of quantum rudders and seem to be effective

[@mattymerr701]

You need "drag" on the carts. So maybe flaring the riders outwards like air brakes could work? Cosmo did that as an airbrake before and it worked, so that could work

[@vax6575]

maybe try having the attachments be 2 sets of suspension then hitch one on the left and one on the right side to attach to, having the suspension should theoretically keep the cart from overdrafting the engine, and having two attachments might reduce angular torque

[@Typhoonator]

Give each car the ability to self stabilize, sensing the position of the car in front of them and rotating to match

[@Trawk101]

you could have tried different strength for each gyro and then as others mentioned place thrust but like min thrust on each cart to help stabilize with increasing strength the farther you get from the engine...would experiment with the thrust vectors

[@giocanz5222]

it looks more like a space dragon, nice video!

[@therrytherry5808]

You could've put reverse trusters in the last cart to put the cart under "tension". It would probably help.

[@fares_games]

next time, make a snake like the snake game as in does not turn with the rest of the snake, but instead all the parts go straight until one point when they turn one by one (i hope it makes sense, if it doesn't go play snake, that's what im thinking)

[@seanfitzgerald9815]

The absolute best fix is something you can’t do on trail makers… you need wires even just on both sides connecting back to front of each cart so that left to right movement has an absolute limit to degree of bend. That way if a cart tried to veer too far on side the cable would go tight and stop it.

[@htetnaing3773]

11:25 made me crack "im a seven"

[@CrimsonDamian]

Better be careful, Scrapman. Beautiful OB may try to stop your train xD

[@testbot-tx7hw]

love that reference

[@ShadowOfCamoCatz]

old reference, no one is gonna understand that referance

[@CrimsonDamian]

@@ShadowOfCamoCatz O.o OB still does train stopping videos tho?

[@testbot-tx7hw]

old? bro that's only 2 years? maybe less@@ShadowOfCamoCatz

[@BLTxRJB420]

Putting the apace wings or whatever towards the front of the carts and the thrust should be all towards the front and they need to be dragged enough but u need a certain speed maintained as well without tracks

[@alolol1000]

7:50 *_The_* moment *ScrapMan* made a *quantum drive*

[@VroomNDoom2602]

I would have tried using speed sensors and sideways thrusters at the back of the cars to deal with the sideways movement. For pitching, perhaps using angle sensors in the train to put inputs into q-rudders on the cars could make a controlled pitch. I also think a speed sensor and thruster inertial damper system for the train would be good to ensure it is moving in the direction it is facing. The rudders help a lot with this, but speed sensors are exact.

[@tvh4260]

A constantly reversing thruster in the cart(s) should help, since the quantum rudders seem to be pushing you forward and this doing weird stuff, but the reverse thrusters should have the intended effect

[@nekowknight]

Hmm maybe you should put a counter thrust and some logic thrust for correcting the flow of movement since thats what they do for correcting movements in real space

[@mmilipersonal9929]

Kudos to the editor & animator

[@collinsavunen5306]

Quantum rudders are forcing the cars in the direction the rudder is facing. Maybe adding logic so the quantum rudders turn the car towards the direction of the engine. With the quantum stabilizers set fairly weak. And on the last car put a reverse motor that turns under when forward turns off

[@Magnus_____]

Can you test how fast the emp is

[@gatorage850]

You could make the caboose have reverse thrust!!! or if there is any other way to make drag on the last cart - to keep tension on all the carts is the key...

[@kaiserwilhelm121]

Props to the editor for making 3d animations

[@bungeetoons]

Scrapman: make a space train Me: Cowboy Bebop noises in my head

[@tukasingunter2718]

ufo engine stabilizer in the back? kinda like he did on the mono thruster thing that might help a bit with the tailwipping

[@DrakanShields]

Not only this proves space trains are a bad idea, but also anything that kinda looks like a snake or worm because the "head" will work fine, but any segments of the "body" will make it hard and complex to do, even for one segment

[@NathanTruby]

Theres a couple of ways to improve this. First off, you're gonna want to change the position of the hinges to the center of the wall instead of towards the bottom like a normal train. This was a major reason why your train behaved so erractically when turning. Another thing you can try is adding mini thrusters facing backward onto the train cars. This, combined with the gyros, can simulate the missing air resistance and should help the cars return to position.

[@cuber9320]

Would have been cool to to see you try to land that bad boy. Nice!

[@xhsjdkjc8634]

Add backfiring thrusters to Simulate drag of a cart on ground they follow only because they are breaked by friction of the wheels and all the other friction stuff on earth

[@sheller153]

I feel like you’d want a backwards facing thruster on a low power to simulate drag. Either fixed or with some sort of steering if that would improve anything?

[@Mk1Astraomega]

WE GOING WITH HONKAI STAR RAIL WITH THIS ONE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@bunglist2000]

is it "Steering Help" counter-steering your carriages and causing the oscillation? Setting that to 0 may help

[@arnelilleseter4755]

I feel you were on the right track with steering hinges (see what I did there). But it would require a lot of programming to make it look good.

[@SuperMichael996]

Congrats on inventing the Girating Noodle Warp Technology!

[@TheCleverJoker]

All they need to add is a ball joint with resistance to changes then you could just slap them on and call it a day.

[@gamerdian1048]

Honkai starrail should have sponsored this lol

[@AlrenClan]

Idea: I have no idea if this will work but maybe putting the connections between the carts in line with the Center of mass might help. ( it’s a ridiculous idea but this is a ridiculous concept)

[@taxes.death.christ]

VIDEO IDEA: Sky tag - tag but with fighter jets.

[@johngilmour6077]

I think it’s Because in space the carts have no resistance so they have no reason to pull strait so you could do with quantum rudders but because that doesn’t work you can use BACKWARDS FACING THRUSTERS at a low power meaning the train is actually pulling them more

[@thywhoknows7276]

So, my take on the issue is that you basically need infinite acceleration to make a train work, or rails. This acceleration is normally simulated by friction, which is obviously not present here. I do think that the train might work if there were no quantum rudders, but this is a short-term solution. I thought that placing the quantum rudders on the last cart should have worked, but hat clearly not the case.

[@William_Kyle-Yuki_Yuuki]

Still watching but I think a little reverse thrust on the trailing car to apply tension to the vehicle would stabilise the cars without the spastic mess