I Had An Okay Ride Cymbal Modified Hoping To Make It Great... Did It Work? Come And See!

[@tmappe]

Definitely sounds way better!

[@danielwetzel7777]

I think that sounds a lot better

[@kimseniorb]

"not into the trashy thing" - istanbul xist dry dark on the background

[@drumdotpizza]

Move along... nothing to see here.... (Okay, so I do walk on a wild side occasionally ;)

[@kimseniorb]

@@drumdotpizza I really like these dry dark series btw. they’re not too hissy

[@drumdotpizza]

@@kimseniorb I actually dig the. Xist Dry Dark Ride... definitely NOT my normal fare, and I bought it way below market value (in perfect condition) with the intention of selling it, but it quickly grew on me, and I decided to keep it. Dark and dry, for sure, but very responsive and expressive, and microphones dig it (there is a low 'hum' that it produces in the room, but that never gets captured by mics, so it's not a concern). It's a lovely, responsive cymbal.

[@kimseniorb]

@@drumdotpizza agreed on the rides, what I didn’t like is the xist dry dark brilliant 15”. its a cool hat and very useable closed, but open its just too white noisey and disappears in the mix

[@kimseniorb]

also on the topic, I’m sure you are aware than istanbul agop/mehmet/bosphorus etc cymbals go for half the price over in Turkey? I suggest anyone to consider a cymbal shopping trip, Istanbul is a great place to wander around/ sightseeing

[@J-DUB-F1]

Timothy is a master !. He really took that old HH Sabian to another level. In its original state it sounded very of the period. Brite and pingy, with a familiar chimey hum. A lot of those early HH's had that sound. I believe Timothy sometimes calls that hum the "barking seal tone" ?. Getting those overtones even across the whole cymbal takes time and a great ear. Mass produced cymbals are hit or miss when it comes to even overtones. He turned it into a much more usable and versatile instrument. Lower pitched but not too much, lots of stick def, and way more crashable. He's a master of creating thinner rides that are really responsive, AND have tons of stick def !. It tripped me out too when I heard him explain cymbals needing to rest.

[@andreasbreitwieser1449]

great result! For all german watchers of this channel, we have also a guy here in Germany who does the same with cymbals, his name is Chris Kamin. I had five rides which i finally didn't like to play because of some penetrating frequencies, i bought them at eBay or i had them for years (and it were ALL TOP cymbals, two Zildjian K's, two Paiste Masters and an Agean) and now i have five outstanding good hybrid rides with great articulation, good crashable and good recording sound

[@tuknchuk]

I sincerely think it sounds fantastic now. A great all around work horse and I don’t like 20” rides. To me it’s got it all. Enough stick definition, high enough pitched, a really gorgeous, lush but to overpowering wash and a nice, friendly, crash-able shoulder. CONGRATS !!! …and SUPERB work again, Timothy !!! Nice !!! Joel, it’s almost like others recommending clothes or shoes that weren’t really your style and you might feel a little uncomfortable… but to others, it’s really a great look for you. As always you sound great and thanks again for sharing !!! 🙏

[@drumdotpizza]

Ha! It's a great look for me... love it. Thanks so much for your kind comments!

[@tripledeluxedday]

Nice going on the cymbal it looks terrific like a brand new cymbal.

[@brent3760]

That cymbal is BUTTER!!! Beautiful!

[@carolwillis5826]

I was getting ready to send to 20 inch K rides from the 80!s to Tim for modification. Saw your video today and I am totally amazed at how he made your Sabian better. So looking forward to seeing the magic he performs. Your cymbals sounds great. Works for pop, rock and even jazz.

[@LDdrums20]

Sounds amazing! Tim is great!

[@erikaylesworth91]

Love it! Got rid of that slightly annoying harmonic and opened it up to be able to crash it. The bell sounds like heaven. Much more of a versatile ride cymbal now I’d say. Also, just wanna say I love the channel man. My favorite drum channel on KZbin. I can tell you put a lot of thought and work into these videos and it’s much appreciated!

[@drumdotpizza]

Thank you so much! I appreciate the kind words.

[@brent3760]

I love Timothy Roberts' work! He is very talented!!!

[@ngilbert100]

That is a big difference! Sometimes when i’m listening to different cymbals or drums I just can’t really hear it, the difference it sounds like a cymbal. That’s pretty different!

[@af7119]

I'm impressed with how it turned out. Kept the essence of that fantastic bell, while getting rid of that gongish hum and making it more crashable.

[@aaronrochotte6342]

Very nice transformation. Could be a great option for just bringing one cymbal to a gig. I bet it would sound amazing for orchestral swells too. I really dig those early Sabian HH cymbals. I used to have a 22" HH "light" ride that was more like a medium weight. It was perfect, and like a fool, I sold it 😢

[@MelkerForssen]

Always learning something from your videos. Never been into combined crash rides but now i know what qualities to look for. Thanks!

[@drumdotpizza]

So glad to here, thank you! I'm always hoping people will glean something useful from my videos.

[@earldrum]

I just had Timothy Roberts modify a 20” Zildjian Flat Top ride and I must say he did an awesome job! My target was a Paiste 602 flat vibe from a Zildjian … My cymbal which is three weeks old after the modification today keeps getting closer to my targeted sound. I have this same 20” 1980s Sabian HH ride (2576g) and I must say I love the way your cymbal sounds. I might be sending him another cymbal! By the way I did a video about my Timothy Roberts modification too!

[@drumdotpizza]

Seems like there are a lot of those 20" Sabian HH rides, and they're all rather heavy (yours is 200g heavier than mine was!). I've been using only this cymbal for the last couple of weeks, and really enjoying it... very expressive.

[@earldrum]

@@drumdotpizza Tim has a great ear for cymbal sounds. He really fixed my 20” A Zildjian Flat Top ride. I can’t believe how good he made it by lathing 800g of metal off the cymbal. Your Sabian sounds great!

[@LaterHolmes]

I had a 21" K Hybrid modified by Timothy, it was too heavy and loud and pingy for my band. It's dark, complex smoky and subtle now but I can still get a good rock ride by playing closer to the bell. Timothy really knows what he's doing. Cool vid, thanks for sharing! Sounds like a similar result for yours.

[@Frus77sh2]

Casual Jon Zoog name drop! Bought a snare from him like 8 years ago now and it's the most beautiful drum I have ever seen let alone be able to call mine.

[@bradbraddy3020]

Really good video Joel! I've got a cymbal I might send Timothy. Thanks for interesting content. By the way, I'm still loving that you UFIP splash I got from you in Plano!

[@jmal5390]

I liked it before, but it sounds great after the mod. It might not be exactly what you imagined, but for me it sounds very good. I'm impressed.

[@Spagz]

I love watching Timothy's videos! I bought a big old radial arm saw with a heavy steel base with hopes of converting it to a cymbal lathe at some point. I want to experiment with modifying and eventually making my own. There is a guy in NJ who teaches it too! He runs "camps". You can choose how many days and how many blanks yo want to make into cymbals. Just seems like a really fun thing to do. I like the way the ride came out. Another great video, Joel.

[@danielwetzel7777]

That sounds really fun

[@drumdotpizza]

The camp would be cool! Maybe I'll treat myself to that at some point!

[@mikeskenne]

Tim is Awesome! I've used him to mod a Paiste 404 20" Ride into an ozone crash w/ rivets. It's spectacular! He added the holes as well as added more hammering. Such a talented craftsman.

[@drumdotpizza]

Agreed!

[@KaiOwensDrums]

Timothy does great work. Think you will really enjoy that thing once it's in the mix.

[@drumdotpizza]

I'm really pleased with what he did with cymbal! Highly recommend!

[@RalphOnofrio]

I've had some KILLER older Sabian HH rides.I'm all K's now from 1985.I would play that cymbal on a jazz gig.

[@Camcodrummer]

Its got a cleaner sound. More stick attack, shorter sustain. It sounds like it records well. Hard to say if it would cut in a live situation from a video. But it does sound better for sure.

[@elithepitbulldog2209]

Sounds great. Makes a good left side Crash-Ride to compliment the main ride, presumably a 22 on a 2 cymbal set up

[@tmorris7243]

Like 'em both...but the "after" is VERY nice....I really like the crash of it. And your kit always sounds great!

[@drumdotpizza]

I much prefer the 'after!' And thanks for the kind words!

[@tripledeluxedday]

You cant go around with ratty junky cymbals so the new look is really the only way to go.

[@oleran4569]

20 inch rides are great! They are often just big enough for body, but small enough for good loading and control.

[@drumdotpizza]

I've been into larger rides in recent years, but still have a couple of 20s that I dig. This one I never loved, but I think that's all changed now!

[@tmappe]

I think they are great. I have larger rides but I have three 20 inch rides - a Zildjian 1993 anniversary ride, a K custom Dark Ride, and a Paiste 2020 light ride. Different flavors.

[@craigtoots3391]

Sounds good. Great video. 👏

[@brent3760]

I love your channel bu the way. I love how us drummers all watch the same channels 🥁😁🥁

[@drumdotpizza]

Thanks so much for being here!

[@NintenDub]

I think thats a cymbal that sounded pretty good. Id have put tape on it to tame that down the slight bit.but than again, id say originally, thats the type of cymbal that seems noisy, but would be amazing live. The longer i play, the more i realise the different applications for cymbals, how some cymbals and yuckyness just work together better with certain other crashes, or aren't great crash cymbals, or only great as a crash but not rideable. Or as i said, great live, but when playing solo, sounds assy. I had an assy cymbal that i loved and i dont know where it went. I think i may have liked your cymbal more before, but sometime you just gotta put it on the stamd, especially a big cymbal, and beat the fuhck out of it with sticks here and there, and let it sit around a year, and before you know it, itll have sat around for years, and itll be firmly settled in

[@Rhythmic1]

i love what Timothy does with cymbals. I'm curious as to how much it cost to have him do that work for you. I'd want to weigh how much it cost verses just replacing the cymbals I'd want to have him change. I have 2 Zildjian K Rides that have always fell just a little shy of the mark. One is a 90's dark k ride 21", and the other is a 60's k ride 21". The 60's K has a little wear around the keyhole but something has always been a little off with the overtones. I've never been able to let it go because it's a 60's K but I've always felt something could be done with it. The 90's K is too heavy for my taste but the bell is amazing. It's clear, loud and pitch perfect. It's also a fairly big target so no knuckle damage when laying into it. Even though it's dark it would make a great cymbal for metal because It has a hell of a dry ping to it too. It was actually a better sounding cymbal when a friend first gave it to me over 20 years ago but I was young and dumb and made the mistake of taking cymbal cleaner to it and ruined the sound. On his suggestion I buried it in the garden for 6 months and that brought back a lot of the sound but it has never been quite the same. I have a 24" 2002 that is perfect for someone looking for that sound but I think it has so much more potential as a lighter cymbal with more shimmer to it as long as it didn't lose the ping. I'd be a lot more nervous about doing anything to that one but I could see how it could be an even greater cymbal if some of the weight was taken off of it. If it sounded and behaved more like a Giant Beat that would be amazing.

[@drumdotpizza]

This experience definitely has me wondering about other cymbals (that I own or don't yet own) that might be good candidates for future modification...

[@Assimilator702]

I’m glad Timothy didn’t neuter the bell. Often when cymbals are shaved down the bell is lathed down too thin.

[@drumdotpizza]

Agreed! Lots of dark, earthy cymbals lack good bells, IMO, and he did a great job keeping mine alive.

[@llRoBoBinHoll]

‘Medium’ cymbals from North America tend to be pretty chunky, indeed. You just do everything a little bigger and heavier over there. Your channel and TR’s channel both put out really high quality, fact based videos!

[@drumdotpizza]

Thanks so much!

[@DieTrommelbude]

Turned from a good cymbal into a fantastic one.❤

[@drumdotpizza]

Timothy did a killer job!

[@TomCawoski]

Wow!!! I wasn't aware that cymbals could be modified like this. The way the cymbal sounded before the modification reminds me of how my ride sounds. There is a big difference in how it sounds after the modification was done. There was even a difference when Timothy played it after the change and then after letting it sit for a while. Overall the cymbal sounds much better and that tone you pointed out in the before demo was gone. I'm sure the ping of the ride will cut through much better now. Great demo!!! I am curious what sticks you were using and if you have done any experimenting with different stick tips/beads. From one of the close up shots it looked like your stick had a barrel bead and I'm wondering if the sound changes much with a different bead. Again, great video demo. I really appreciate your channel!!!

[@drumdotpizza]

Don't get me started on sticks.... for 20 years I've used the same stick model and loved it (VF Steve Smith Signature), and then a couple of years ago I grabbed a pair of sticks that looked interesting off the rack in a music store, liked them, bought them..... and it's just been a mess ever since trying to determine my ideal stick (as if one were truly possible... one can dream!). As for the sticks in this video I believe they are Vater Matrix model sticks (0.57" dia., 16 1/8" long, small bead). Tapers slightly closer to the tip giving the stick a tad heavier feel without being thick. I'm a backbeat player, so this 'front heavy' feel plus slightly greater length makes grooves comfortable, and it has a good tip for ride work. It's one of the several models I've been messing with lately. As for the cymbal, yes, I have heard of people modifying cymbals (hammering, lathing, etc.) but never knew enough to be confident about who to use. After watching lots of Timothy's videos I felt like he did a great job explaining his approach to each mod and then getting to hear the mods after the fact gave me confidence that with a little direction from me (exactly what I wanted the cymbal to do) it might be worth the effort and expense (which is reasonable, IMO) to see if that ride could be made truly useful. I'm a fan (and, of course, have other ideas for other mods now..... )

[@TomCawoski]

@@drumdotpizza Sorry, didn't mean to strike a nerve regarding sticks. 🤣 I've actually had the same dilemma with sticks. When I started playing I Played Regal Tip 5As (.58 Diameter) for a number of years, switched to Vic Firth 5As (.565 Diameter) in the 90s, went to a Todd Sucherman clinic in 2012 and he was playing his signature stick .6 think, kind of a beefy stick but made of maple. I liked them but they felt a little light in the front but Todd holds them pretty much all the way at the end. The last couple years it's been swapping between Vic Firth 55A (.580), their 5B maple (.595) and VF Dave Weckl's Evolution stick (.563) love the balance and feel of his stick. It has a little bit more weight in the front and a smaller tear drop tip but I don't care for the paint finish - wished it was lacquer. Anyway, I like each for different reasons hence my question if the tip makes a difference in the way it sounds on a ride. You want that definition of the hit there. I don't hear much difference with my current ride which I'm thinking I might want to get something better at some point. Anyway, very cool video, love your channel...

[@morrinsville23]

Definitly sounds more musical to me! I see you have one of those istanbul xist? Brown lumpy cynbals, i love those things there was a 17" one at my work and i coverted it!, cool your an electronucs guy too! Im a tech for musical stuff amps keyboards etc etc.. love your vids!

[@drumdotpizza]

Thanks so much for chiming in! Yes, I have designed several recording gadgets (mics/preamps/compressors/eqs) and built more than I care to remember (I love audio electronics, but that's largely taken a backseat in recent years). Now I'm back to my first love: DRUMS!!! 😁

[@morrinsville23]

@@drumdotpizza Ha! Chiming in ( i see what you did there) Yeah the cats spending more time on my drum stool than me, need to fix that

[@cymbalism1]

I heard the swelling overtones of the original cymbal. After the lathing, the loss of ping and the more mellow tones and the bell not really having any stage presence, I def would use this as a crash. It has great crashing tones and just the right amount of sustain.He does great work, eh?

[@drumdotpizza]

Rides to me have to be crashable... it's just a significant part of how I play, (so Stewart Copeland's Signature Paiste Blue Bell ride wouldn't get a lot of use from me!). The ride I sent Timothy was close to what I wanted, but I wanted it lighter and more responsive. He exceeded my expectations. No one is asking me to play metal, and were I to do so this ride wouldn't be my choice. But yes, judging from this mod he clearly knows his stuff and does great work.

[@af7119]

Once you played it for a minute I knew exactly what you meant that it was right on the "edge" of being what you want and need. Minor tweaking is all it needs, at least to my ears.

[@ZackMester]

Sounds like I need this done to my 17” Armand Zildjian!

[@llRoBoBinHoll]

Hi, would you happen to have any tips for making a snare sound good at a distance, unamplified? For toms and the bassdrum, I know thanks to you that larger diameters tuned higher are more projecting. Similarly, are 15” snares actually good for having an acoustic snare sound with some body?

[@drumdotpizza]

Ah... body... there's the rub! Drums tuned above midrange project tone well over distance, but tuning drums above midrange and having 'body' does typically require larger diameters. An alternative to 15" drums would be deeper 14" drums, though in general I find diameters affect pitch/tuning while depth affects tone (an 8" deep snare can have the same pitch as a 5" deep snare, but will have a darker tonality (and often less wire response at lower dynamic levels). Using similar tension on a 2-ply head typically results in a lower pitch (compared to a single ply head), so you might try a relatively lively 2-ply head may (by lively I mean something that doesn't bond the edges of the films together like Aquarian's Performance II / Remo Pinstripe). Something like Aquarian's Response II (dual 7mil films) or Super II (a 5mil and a 7mil film) with little additional muffling will produce a lower pitch with similar tension (and require greater tension to produce the pitch you normally prefer). The greater tension will help with projecting the tone, but be careful with the amount of muffling you use... less muffling will mean more natural tone over distance (particularly since the 2-ply nature of the head will already muffle it some compared to a single-ply). I hope that helps and gives you some ideas. Thanks for being here!

[@llRoBoBinHoll]

@@drumdotpizzathank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge! From your videos and my own experience I know that a lot of muffling isn’t great for listening/recording from further away. Especially snares get that cardboardy sound, with way too much snare and not enough strike/tone in the sound. In your experience, are double ply heads functionally different to a muffled single ply in that way? In terms of sound, I think of those two options in a similar way, but I haven’t tried double ply heads a lot, except on bassdrums of course. So is there perhaps more nuance?

[@EversonBernardes]

Definitely much more musical wash under the stick, before work it had some mid range resonances that kinda sounded hollow - gong-y, really. Pleasant amount of wash, too, not overpowering. I'd say it went from a more specialist role (really pop-focused, cutting ride-RIDE) to a more versatile place.

[@drumdotpizza]

Exactly! My use of rides has changed over the last decade and I find myself wanting more expression from them now (whereas before I used them primarily for riding only). Now rides are just larger, ride-able cymbals that are probably the most expressive part of my kit (well, that and the snare). Thanks for being here!

[@ampdrum1]

Joel is America’s drum uncle.

[@ampdrum1]

He made a Sabian sound like a PAiSTe 602.

[@drumdotpizza]

Ha! Drum uncle. I actually like that. Thanks for the comment!

[@oleran4569]

While you're exploring "metallic" sounds, I'm interested in your opinion on "S" hoops on snare drums. I like the "feel" and look, but find the cross stick sound brighter, thinner and a bit less satisfying than traditional hoops.

[@llRoBoBinHoll]

In my opinion they’re a bit of a fad. You don’t really gain anything from the overhang, and the cross stick is not good. A thick triple flanged hoop does the same job better I think

[@drumdotpizza]

I have S-hoops on a couple of snare drums. That might be a good video, thank you for the tip! As for S-hoops I do find them a good balance between flanged and cast hoops (though many 'clip-on' style mic holders don't like S-hoops). Sonically, though, I like them overall... a good compromise between the two common types. They hold tuning well (like cast hoops) but do allow for a little more creative tuning options (detuning a couple of lugs being my most common variant). The have good rimshot bite that tends toward cast response, but don't create as much of the table top feel to the head under tension that cast hoops can (probably my biggest gripe with cast hoops).

[@robburgess4556]

That cymbal looks smaller than 20" - how big are you hands?

[@williamfotiou7577]

I said the same thing when I first saw it. 🥁

[@drumdotpizza]

Ha!! I don't think I have very large hands for a man (though size 13 feet while only being 5'10" tall... go figure! ) But yes, it is definitely a 20" cymbal (the iPhone unpacking footage made it look small to me too... don't know what optics are going on there, but yes, 20"). (Okay, your question actually prompted me to measure my hand size... weird, I know... and with my fingers fully spread out my right hand is exactly 9" thumb to pinky finger, tip-to-tip. I know you didn't really want to know that, but FWIW it might be useful to someone). Thanks for being here!!!

[@robburgess4556]

@@drumdotpizza 1/4" bigger than mine 😁

[@tripledeluxedday]

Weirdo.

[@ivannio8519]

More correct title: "I had an okay ride cymbal modified by T. Roberts hoping to make it great" (and he did a perfect job I´d say!) ;)

[@drumdotpizza]

Indeed! Didn't mean to take the thunder away from Timothy with the title (but didn't want to give it all away either... gotta keep people wondering some!). Thanks for being here!!!

[@ivannio8519]

@@drumdotpizza Thanks for your kind reply :)

[@adampavelec857]

What do you think he could do with a late 80’s 20” Z Custom Lite Power Ride?

[@drumdotpizza]

That'd be a question for him, of course, but aren't the Z Customs fairly tall profile (as opposed to flat)? I think the profile (overall shape) of the cymbal poses limitations as to what can be done with hammering/lathing, so that'd be a great question for him. I'm curious.... :)

[@adampavelec857]

@@drumdotpizza I know! It’s such an unconventional cymbal to give it some treatment!

[@BD-me4nk]

Sounds a lot better. All those annoying ringing frequencies that would build up are gone.

[@boblogiii8869]

Love to know what a mod like that costs?

[@drumdotpizza]

reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification. Mine was the basic mod (0-500g removed, basic hammering, no patina and no rivets). Totally worth it!!! Took my ride from one that I never used to one that is quickly becoming a favorite.

[@NintenDub]

Keep the videos coming i hope. Your takes and angles are always much more than the typical bs

[@drumdotpizza]

I appreciate the encouragement, thank you!

[@drew_on_drums]

This is a great crash but holy fuck that isn't a ride at all it has to be big and thick for it to be considered a good ride. Plus that bell is trash it needs to be at least 8"