I had never heard of these motors but they have a cool secret!

Support SCIENTIFIC battery testing! / chris_rosser
ZTInnovate: ztinnovate.net/
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:12 2-piece vs Unibell design
3:21 No o-ring cushion 😭
3:51 The competition
4.27 Thrust
5:08 Efficiency
5:38 Torque
7:32 What makes these motors special?
8:07 Why plate copper motor wire?
9:03 The most expensive 2207 motor in FPV?
9:32 Are these motors for you?
11:36 Battery testing for FPV!

[@EvPv]

Totally wanna see the performance differences in solid silver wire

[@EnlightenedSavage]

Silver, while the most conductive material, is only slightly more conductive than copper.Also electrons move mostly along the surface anyway.

[@openskeyedrones]

Let’s see a solid silver winding comparison!

[@JaydenLawson]

Yes

[@QuadMcFlyFlies]

So interestingly enough SunnySky was the first FPV hobby focused manufacturer to make silver plated windings. This had to have been back in 2015 or 2016. T-motor followed suit, and most of their pro-line motors have had silver plated windings since then. Back when the original RotorRiot Hypetrain motors were coming out I did a bunch of R&D testing of variants and I had the opportunity to test a couple of motors back to back with silver windings and without, along with several wire thicknesses. Some super interesting results. It showed about a 5% increase in performance in my testing over the non-plated wire, which is not insignificant. Another thing worth pointing out is the role of skin effect in this conversation. My testing also showed a similar outcome that you saw here where the gains were primarily in the upper part of the throttle curve. Rather than this being a result of higher Kv though, this is mostly due to the fact that the penetration depth of the current flow is inversely proportional to the frequency of the switching in alternating current. At low RPMs skin effect is playing a fairly insignificant role, but as throttle increases the current is more and more focused on the surface where the plating is providing an increasing percentage of conduction. I actually ran the formulas back when I was testing this and there's some interesting stuff related to the diameter of the wire and the thickness of the plating along with the PWM duty cycle at the FETs. There's also some interesting stuff related to this and multi-strand vs single strand windings for higher Kv and higher RPM applications.

[@EMDRONES]

Yeah this is old goes to show this dude is new to the hobby

[@IanF-FPV]

Yeah I remember too the earlier SunnySky motors with silver plating. Did SunnySky make motors for Diatone 🤔.

[@QuadMcFlyFlies]

@@IanF-FPV Yes those blue Diatone motors were SunnySky R series motors. I don't believe the diatone version had the silver windings though IIRC. The recent Mamba series motors are made by RCInPower I believe.

[@flapjackfpv]

Rosser strikes again 🎉 lol I even remember more recently the DXA Brother Hobby motors! Same fancy windings…. So far the most durable and best performing motors I’ve ever put on a basher build.

[@tehllama42]

Yet another great example of the strange ways in which SunnySky has been quietly making some of the most amazing motors that somehow never caught on with the hype.

[@WipeoutFPV]

Ask bardwell if he's selling his battery testing gear, doesn't seem to get much use these days 😅

[@kenfuciusfpv2800]

I think he started a Google sheet some time ago with some starting information on it. I don't know if he kept up with all the new batteries, or updated information over time.

[@christhorney]

oh man i cant wait to see your battery testing! bardwell should send you his tester that the community helped buy for him that he never really utilised in the way he said he would

[@Northbourne12]

I was thinking the same thing ask bardwell to ship you his that the community paid for

[@RookieRay]

I really hope other FPV 'creators' promote your interest in testing battery packs. Please keep driving this!

[@hazzahfpv6675]

Take Bardwells Battery tester that he bought years ago with the same aim and basically is not using... Im sure he'll be happy to collaborate ^^

[@ChrisRiley3D-Everything]

Heck yes brother, i would love to see how a silver wound motor preforms!!!!!!!

[@MountaineerFPV]

If I have a few bars of .999 fine silver can you make me even better motors? Dat B da chit mang👊🇺🇸

[@MountaineerFPV]

@10:40 i know someone who would happily test those motors 3D style!

[@Ozzy3333333]

Regarding battery testing. I would BB log a few freestyle flights and also get some top racer BB logs, and make a load test profile (thro and currents) and use it of course checking IR with something like Wayne Gills meter. Checking temp, capacity, voltage sag, etc. Also should look into some of the 6s 5000 testing mscguy is doing, he is the standard for the edf guys, he is in rcg, if you need help let me know. Since you program, I don't think you need to buy a cadex/etc tester, build your own. Thanks for sharing.

[@sixtofive]

A contribution towards the battery testing gear. Keep up the great work!

[@TheBionicbone]

Bring on battery testing!! Great videos Chris, I learn so much, thanks

[@williamgambill3922]

Thank you sir your info is gold happy to see someone start to straighten up the wild west of fpv Motors and batteries are ridiculous in this Hobby I come from car racing for like 40 years and it takes Someone Like You To keep motor and battery companies from putting out the garbage I constantly see in it fpv it was done in cars a more mature hobby and made so many changes that nowadays not even the cheapest Motors are that bad and all it took was people like you thank you for your time happy safe flying

[@ztinnovatemotor]

Thank you, Chris Rosser

[@youzrnaim]

Great video! Short and concise.

[@baggszilla]

Keep up the great work Chris!

[@MCsCreations]

Fascinating indeed! Thanks, Chris!!! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@ottawadrones]

Contribution towards the test gear! Thanks for all you do.

[@robert_g_fbg]

Batches of motors are like crops of wine. Cheers

[@Alhussainba]

Copper's electric conductivity is 58 MS/m at 20 °C, as for silver, it is 63 MS/m. about 3% difference per meter, I think there's more than one meter of copper in that stator. I would like to see the silver winding, I expect less than 5% difference. BTW, if you do the experiment, consider repeating the silver plated tests with a manually wound stator, I think that value should be compared to the solid silver wound stator.

[@ls4life544]

Go for it Chris. Let see the silver winding motors.

[@combinacijus]

If you make silver wire motor you should make copper one too to accurately compare diy vs diy motors Or even better you could 1. Buy 3 same motors 2. Do a bench test on all of them 3. Take off coils from 2 of them and leave one as is 4. Rewind 1 motor with same width copper wire 5. Rewind other motor with same width silver wire 6. Redo bench test on all 3 7. Compare results Would be interesting to see if performance changes if you rewind manually. Maybe if manual winding ir poor with a lot of air gaps, the motor would heat up faster on inside coils due to air insulation

[@cpfpv6410]

I remember hearing your name years ago. I recently got back into the hobby. and am upgrading my gear... Nice to finally put a face to a name

[@thirtythreeeyes8624]

Should have compared it to the T-motor or Hypetrain silver wire motors. The T-motor calls it silver core not sure that means solid silver though might be a translation issue.

[@califpv]

hypertrain is garbage, but T-Motor would be a great comparison

[@flaparoundfpv8632]

Weren't my old Hypetrain motors using silver wire 5 years ago?

[@kallepetter]

Would love to see a video on rewiring a motor with silver thread instead of copper.

[@medienmond]

Please rewind with silver cable. Please also test temperature resistance of the isolation. It should get better results, but temp stability of isolation could be worse.

[@fpvgiggles]

Yessss silver test plz ZZ!

[@micsherwood4930]

Excellent video! Yes, you doing battery testing would shake things up a little, but it's about time someone did. thanx

[@BrutalGeek92]

i subscribed just so I can see how the silver wire would work vs the copper wire. Great video! will definitely be watching more

[@mallowpuff2649]

I'd love to see a comparison to a solid silver wire coil! Also I've seen the FlyFishRC motors becoming more popular(and available at more retailers), it'd be awesome if you could test those in the future as well!

[@AFILalpha]

Ill second that with Flyfish. they have some interesting motors, but not so many reviews.

[@Huck_FPV]

Thanks!

[@OnepackFpv]

Definitely want to see that.

[@jtcustomknives]

Excited about the battery testing. You should get the test setup from JB. His viewers paid for it and he did some testing but then called it quits.

[@RookieRay]

gods work

[@Bannisterpost]

Didnt Joshua Bardwell do this exact same thing and get one of those machines only to test a few packs? I’d like to see this followed through but IM getting deja vu. I do like how you take the personal aspect out of rating these parts, I dont much crate how you feel about a motor or a battery I like knowing how it actually performs. Nice work Chris, thank you for putting this stuff out there.

[@pav2k]

Done by T-Motors YEARS ago...

[@MontegaB]

I signed up for your Patreon. Would love to see battery testing, I agree that it is sorely needed.

[@b.w.oostdam8875]

Would really like to see the battery test !

[@ttararin]

Dear Chris, thank you for this piece. Very informative as usual and YES, please rewire one of the motors using pure silver. Very interesting. If results will be satisfying be ready for gold rewire requests 😊

[@subspectacle]

Maaan, we really need that battery tests, go for it! I just blew a CNHL battery mid flight and had to reassemble the whole quad because of it, that's ridiculous 👺

[@dankusmemus2350]

I'm impressed by the efficiency of the Five33 headsup motor 2207 and wish there was a graph with the motors efficiency for the whole throttle curve. Thanks for the video

[@ChrisRosser]

All the data is available in the Patron section of the discord server. 👍

[@Cloud1242]

I would love to see how silver wired motors perform. Maybe include a how-to for those of us curious to try as well? Thanks for the awesome content, Chris!

[@yosayogi539]

Silver winding on the way yey. By you Chris of corse. Great vid info

[@rbyt2010]

You should google “skin effect”; consider high speed switching ~= AC for these circumstances; ~10% weight penalty for pure silver. Nice test and motor. Luv to see the pure silver test

[@califpv]

was using Tmotor f60 for a long time, but I now use RCinPower GTS 3 and they're awesome. I might just have to test these out

[@llejk]

Danke!

[@tk-maker]

Yes, please do it

[@MichaelRogersJesusrules]

Thanx for sharing,loved the presentation as usual :) would be an awesome experience to see the silver wired motor and test results.thanx again.! Just a thoughtand i dont know if you and Mr J Bardwell talk or get alonng ,might be quicker if you could borrow his or sommthing to that effect? Still be cool to own one if you where going to test thousands of batteries...glad im not paying for them hehe.and again thanx for the videos,wealth of knowledge i have learnt from you and others in the past year.God bless ya Chris!

[@b.w.oostdam8875]

Bedankt

[@ChaddRainsFPV]

Would love to see the silver winding motor! I also do some battery testing on my channel from time to time. I use a handful of different machines for my testing. I'd love to test the packs as you (or at least the same brands and models) so we can compare results!

[@luis_gbs]

Solid silver motor :D

[@chadcarpenter9742]

I would love to see a silver wire motor!

[@Haveblue777]

Silver motor wires test, please!😁

[@JPspinFPV]

I think you know the answer here Chris. If you say you're up for it we're here to see the results. Bring on the silver motor.

[@Gosuminer]

I would love to see a solid silver wire motor simply for getting that sweet test data and learning about motor winding in general.

[@Ozzy3333333]

When a mfg sends you motors for free, they would be stupid not to send you the cream of the crop (top 5% after dyno testing). So what you test and what we buy might be different.

[@edrone_]

These motors definitely have my attention. Great video Chris. Do both the unibell and 2 piece use the silver plated coils?

[@testpilotian3188]

Yes, please do the solid silver winding comparison….

[@bambusgott4106]

Totally wanna see the performance differences in solid silver wire!

[@fpvtea]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIGkpGZ9pLeSgtE Thank you for wanting to see performance.

[@willpowerfpv3246]

Hahaha, my first thought instantly was, "why don't we have a solid silver winding?" 😅 Absolutely interested to see how that would affect the performance. Great video, Chris thanks! 😁👌🏻

[@SikhFPV]

Get ready for rocket high motor prices lol

[@GC-sg9jv]

You could increase the copper amount by around 5 percent and save a bundle of money,

[@willpowerfpv3246]

@@SikhFPV I'm already stupid and buy obscenely expensive motors..🙃 Gold-plated with diamond studing, bring it on!! 😂

[@AtradiesInc]

Best 6s battery dogcom hands down

[@IanF-FPV]

Diatone use to add silver plating on the windings of their motors years ago.

[@johnkurpiewski3996]

8:15 yes it all makes sense now !

[@tehllama42]

@Chris Rosser - Bring on the Litz Wire hand wound motors

[@Magneticitist]

Rather than mainly some electrical conductivity advantage it may be more so an advantage in thermal properties

[@WEEBER13]

Silver for the win!

[@jeffpv7468]

It would absolutely be cool to see silver motors. but also, I would like to see a heat test with these motors to see if the extra cooling is really effective or if they're just good motors. If the cooing IS much better, what about gold wire? Obviously, it would be a HUGE weight gain but I think it would be interesting to look at temps if it turns out the material really makes a difference.

[@jessehoffman5302]

after seeing the testing of these motors i took a chance on them and ordered 5 of the unibell 2040kvs for my tanq build. It is taking them 6 days to even ship them out, so that doesn't seem like a great sign right out of the gate...

[@AaronZang-vy3xz]

I’d love to see the performance improvement of the solid silver wire over the silver plated wire. No doubt it would minuscule, but every little improvement helps.

[@chuco425]

I want to see the silver wire motors!

[@AnotherTrucking]

Yeah would love to see you rewind a stator and see the benefits wouldnt be so bad with smaller motors. I bet its a pain though and fiddley be a good vid

[@a84758]

Great video as usual! I always wondered why almost all motors are wound with copper, it would be very interesting to see performance figures with solid silver windings. I wonder if you would be able to get the windings as compact as a machine could though?

[@yuriy77]

I bet he can do better than machine lol 😅. It will take more time to do manually, but I think better winding can be achieved

[@zaneenaz4962]

Greatly applaud your efforts with batteries .... too much is garbage.

[@Alo-gl7eu]

Yes silver please. I Those numbers should be compelling. I dont know why I am here but I still want to see it.

[@davidhoward2901]

I've definitely separated the flux ring from the bell on a wasp major unibell

[@Inertia888]

If the performance was shown to be high enough margin, I would consider buying a SOLID Silver wound motor, for at least my most shiny builds.

[@sixtofive]

Before you even mentioned it I was thinking I wonder how expensive an all silver winding motor would have to be? That would be a really interesting experiment! At current prices, probably $15-20 worth just in the cost of the silver, so maybe $55-60 per motor? Although you wouldn't get the benefits of mass production lowering the cost, so realistically maybe $80-100 per motor. Then you get into the issue of is suitable insulated silver wire even possible to buy or would you have to fabricate it yourself.

[@MindRiderFPV]

We need axial flux motors. 🔥

[@aviphysics]

Definitely want you to wind a motor with silver wire

[@chadsalas9658]

Do a silver wire motor i'd love to see how they perform

id like to see you use all these random motors in a durability test. [performance doesn't mean much in fpv if they cant take a hit.

[@h2o40fpv]

I would like to see how they perform. thank you.

[@josephrsalexander4589]

Product idea - bells are disposable - a stator and bearings will outlive the bell 1:3. For 2207 you can pop on almost any bell and not tell the difference. It would be nice to see an extremely high quality 2207 1950 KV stator and bearing sold independently - maybe with silver lined wires. Also gold is a better conductor than silver.

[@ChrisRosser]

That's a really cool idea, how much performance is the stator vs how much the rotor bell. Also I just checked and gold is not a better conductor than silver, it's a little bit worse. The larger charge on the nucleus holds the outer electroncs more tightly and there are not enough additional electron shells to compensate for that (unlike moving from copper to silver).

[@nixie2462]

I was wondering, would ceramic (or hybrid) bearings, vs normal ones, make a difference in flight times, or the gains of less friction in the bearings, would be minimal?

[@MountaineerFPV]

@11:40 yes!!

[@MountaineerFPV]

Its time to expose the battery manufacture BS!

[@stevetrixfpv]

Do it!

[@TopFlightAero]

I would enjoy learning to wind motors using silver .

[@JDDupuy]

Wow! $41.40 for shipping? I hope that is direct DHL and not banana boat. Just bought 8 motors. 4 - 2207 and 4 -2306. Lets see how they perform.

[@TheFpvDad]

Thank you for your support 🙏🇨🇦

[@user-my2me3db1n]

id love to see silver and gold wire in a comparison.

[@sethschneider9764]

I'm subscribing for the all silver motor

[@agtjackbauer]

Hopefully other manufacturers try this out. Give us a xing 3 motor with this

[@hyperionyt]

Hi Chris -- I'll one-up you, let's test both pure Silver and pure Gold wire! Au has even better properties than Ag (for the reasons you identified) so let's "go big" and do both!!! 😄

[@ChrisRosser]

Interestingly gold is a slightly worse conductor than silver, the larger charge on the nucleus holds the outer electrons more tightly and the extra electron shell is not enough to compensate. But if you'd like to donate 30g of gold wire to the cause be my guest! :D

[@AtradiesInc]

I definitely wanna see solid silver

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

5:08 you should adjust the scale of this graph it really does not convey the differences between them. They are essentially five colored bars of the same height.

[@Krash_fpv]

There's a guy that does battery testing on all the plane batteries and all their stats and publishes a chart

[@justjonfpv]

I was going to order a set of these motors but no option to ship to the UK 😢 Would be very interested in the silver wire motor test 👍

[@ztinnovatemotor]

Hi, now it can be shipped to the UK, sorry for the inconvenience.

[@MontegaB]

I love that FPV is a hobby where you & Botgrinder can co-exist :)

[@MrFadjule]

Diatone did this a few years back on their BNF diatone GT

[@Saifbak16]

Please make a video of motor with solid silver wire 😊

[@MattyBluntz]

make the silver motor!