I Hate Extra Credits

/ harmfulopinions - Live 5 days a week!
Don't forget to check out my narration channel, Nightmare Club!
/ @nightmareclub_
Throw me a tip through streamlabs! - streamlabs.com...
You can support me on a recurring basis on Patreon! / harmfulopinions
/ discord
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys isn't it how crazy cheap games are if you consider inflation?
Wild, I've never heard this before, ever.

[@clsd88]

"Leave muh multi billion dollar corporation alone"

[@jimmycarburator2012]

something something turn consoomers into fanatics and products into religions or something like that

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

"Leave Blizzard alone! Leave 'em alone!"

[@Hadgerz]

Extra Credits: "Games are getting more expensive thanks to inflation, think of the poor publishers! You need to accept it and pay more!" Gamers: "wages aren't going up in sync with inflation and you need to accept that we are becoming less and less willing to get price gouged by the multi-billion dollar corpo fucks you're shilling for." Extra Credits: "nooo, video games are cheaper than ever now! You're being unreasonable!"

[@seenkyle5591]

But they are saving us money !

[@problematicspaghettios]

​@@seenkyle5591 Certainly saving me money, that's a fact!!

[@TheWatcherOfStoof]

Their ability to consistently have the worst opinion on everything is impressive.

[@Chud_Bud_Supreme]

And with smarmy, condescending accents no less. That takes skill

[@backlogbuddies]

Remember when they called hit indie games lightning in a bottle?

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

I unsubscribed after the orc analogy, hadn't even watched them in years prior but I liked their stuff back in the day. Not that I remember any of it, maybe I just grew out of it. But after the orc incident I was like "Welp there goes another one off the deep end.."

[@77wolfblade]

Plus they're having a bad habit of mixing up or changing the history/mythology videos.

[@brownvoltaire2722]

It all went downhill since the OG creator's left

[@mynameisnotyours]

Solution: Don't buy "triple-A" games. You've saved $70. Now do it forever.

[@jerrymartin7019]

but battlefield 2042 is a human right >:(

[@BillRoyMcBill]

Then every game fiasco that outrages the mobs, just makes you feel vindicated, and that feels good. *"I win again!"*

[@Boredasfuck29]

​@@jerrymartin7019Wasn't that game so bad that it went F2P in just a few months? I could be misremembering.

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

Or wait for some other sap to buy it, then sell it a week later, then you go buy that copy for less than half the original price in the pawn shop/charity shop. Corporate makes their money AND you don't get scammed. We get so many copies of Fifa and COD donated you can't even give them away.

[@almalone3282]

​@@jerrymartin7019 Just play Battlefield 4 or 1.

[@CodenameDoubleL7]

1980's games were priced at $90 w/inflation. 1990's games were priced $100 w/inflation. Both eras had industry crashes. Weird.

[@Eye_Of_Odin978]

Yeah, I predict another soon. All the market forces are there, for sure. Consumers are feeling alienated, prices are getting unreasonable, and game publishers/console developers seem woefully out-of-touch. Its all there. The bubble is gonna burst.

[@MoonScentedHoonter]

Games were also made with far far far less people so you have less money needing to be spent on development. How many atari games had teams the size of PS5 games.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

​@@Eye_Of_Odin978 honestly I can't wait. hopefully it leads to a period where only people who really want to make games are making them.

[@Shiro_Amada]

NES was 3rd gen. Atari comadore and colecovision where 2nd gen. 1st gen would be Pong and other single game consoles from the mid 70s. If you really want to, you could go back to "Table tennis for 2" in the late 1940s.

[@Shiro_Amada]

@diode6265 There where two crashes. Japans economic crash and America's video game market crash, its one of the reasons Atari buried a huge pile of unsold ET games in a dessert. Unless you lived in Japan or the United States there was no crash.

[@SkylineFTW97]

>Claims it's not shrinkflation. >Describes shrinkflation anyway. >Is too oblivious to see that he undermined his own argument. >Completely neglects the fact that user satisfaction with AAA games has gone way down from the 2000s. I can't even say I'm disappointed in Extra Credits. They did exactly what I expected them to do, be sophists defending a multibillion dollar cash cow's egregious practices and encouraging you to not ask questions, consume product, and get excited for next product. In fact, I'm impressed how they can remain so confident in their takes when they know nobody will buy it.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

the question is, do they do it for free or not?

[@NickyBlue99]

They drink soy non stop I'd bet

[@Maximum432]

@@xXx_Regulus_xXx Most of the EC crew are either AAA developers or work in consulting firms that have contracts with AAA publishers. They are motivated entirely by self-interest.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

@@Maximum432 Gamedev is the hardest job in the whole world and these guys still find time to educate us little people on how much we should pay? how selfless of them.

[@Lopnawe]

What's even more frustrating is that their history content is pretty good. Leaves a really bad taste.

[@Re-PhantomZero]

"I am now going to shill for the gaming industry with an obnoxious cartoonish voice and a bunch of colorful cartoons treat you like a toddler and explain why you should be thankful to the gaming industry and pay more."

[@hiroshima19]

brought to you by Factor, because you're a child who can't cook food or do dishes

[@XellosNi]

"Don't ask questions. Just consume product and get excited for next product." "Write that down WRITE THAT DOWN!"

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

this made me think EC was a side project of Spirit Science for like two years. Turns out the Spirit Science guy is more centrist than EC though, he doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the sh1tlibs at EC.

[@isaac6077]

@@xXx_Regulus_xXxspritial science might be a schizo poster but hes at least fun. Ec arent fun

[@SneedBass]

​@@isaac6077it's funny how the literal crazy guy is better received then these industry paid shills.

[@cardposting]

Consider the following: All games are free if you don't pay for them. It has never been easier to not pay for games. Therefore, games are cheaper than ever.

[@Stop_Gooning]

It is currently easier to buy games on Steam than it is to pirate them and add them to your library. The very moment this changes, I will switch back to piracy.

[@wildflowerg8577]

Yar Har Lads, the seven seas blesses those that love’r ‘Member, if Buyin’ ain’t Ownin’ Piracy ain’t stealin’

[@VindictusMXVideos]

I also like the one that goes: If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.

[@bazookaman1353]

​@@VindictusMXVideosBetter yet, game devs support policies that increase taxes and inflation reducing your buying power, effectively robbing you of money. If piracy is theft, it isn't actually theft, because stealing what is stolen is just retaking.

[@arsenii_yavorskyi]

@@VindictusMXVideos ⛔ STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION ⛔ ℹ Companies infringing on consumer rights has *no bearing* on the definition of piracy - it is and always has been copyright infringement, not theft. ℹ Piracy is *IMPOSSIBLE* with always online DRM - there's no point in talking about piracy if the games are unplayable.

[@Ferdinand208]

The thing the games industry tells me is: you pay $70 and you don't get the whole game and it is full of bugs. If you wait 1 to 3 years you can get it for $30 complete with all of the bug fixes and dlc.

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

I’m playing 20 year old games on mobile for like 5$ a pop. Got KOTOR 1 and 2 for under 10 dollars and Rome Total War and Med 2 for under 10 bucks.

[@Krapvag]

they've even started charging you extra on top to have the privilege of being the first people to experience these game crashing bugs

[@problematicspaghettios]

​@@Krapvag Beta testers. We call them beta testers. They just don't get paid to do it anymore. Now you have to PAY FOR THE PRIVILEGE!!!

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

What game was it that just released, where people paid like $100 or more to play it early and literally couldn't play it for the 2 of the 3 early days? They all blend together nowadays..

[@Krapvag]

@@Vaguer_Weevil suicide squad

[@FirstLast-mn4re]

Remember, "you didn't choose this"

[@ramigilneas9274]

And suddenly I was a Nazi.😢

[@goufr3540]

@@ramigilneas9274 Damn it, not again.

[@Shin_Mothra]

Nintendo should be held accountable for making me play as a New Yorker.

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

@@Shin_Mothra They made a game about Vinny?

[@NickyBlue99]

The game made me bad man from ww2

[@basition]

These guys always mention inflation but never bring up wage growth.

[@GeneralPotatoSalad]

They do, but in the context of dev wages as a part of game budgets. Funny, that.

[@halkon4412]

Wage growth is part of inflation. In fact, it’s one of the primary drivers of it.

[@problematicspaghettios]

"SHUT UP and vote for 20$/hr minimum wage CHUD!!!

[@AlexiusRedwood]

@halkon4412 no it's not inflation is the money supply in circulation .

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

In my country the wage growth since the end of the 80's far exceeds inflation.

[@Bladezeromus]

"Here you are, paying $70 for a videogame. You didn't ask for this; you didn't want this...."

[@markussharkus6727]

You can just hear the soylent reverberating off his vocal cords

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

His excessively fake cheeriness alone makes this really hard to listen to..

[@SamuelCatsy]

His voice is like if you asked an AI to create a voice for the website Reddit.

[@zenster1097]

@@Vaguer_Weevil The TONE...THE TONE!!!

[@josedorsaith5261]

​@@Vaguer_Weevil He's soijakking the whole time

[@josedorsaith5261]

​@@SamuelCatsy I thought that would sound like Kyle's mom from Southpark

[@dragonforks93]

"There you are sitting in your room minding your own business and then suddenly, you're poor." - Extra Credits, probably

[@kungfuvoodoo9889]

"You didn't ask for this, you didn't choose this, yet there it is"

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

There you are, sitting in your room, minding your own business, and then suddenly, out of nowhere, there's marmalade on your balls.

[@problematicspaghettios]

​@@Vaguer_Weevil Don't kink shame me! 😈

[@ciege7486]

​@@Vaguer_Weevil "Now, would you rather meet a bear or man in the woods?"

[@77wolfblade]

@@Vaguer_Weevil you didn't ask for this you didn't choose this but there it is.

[@indieWellie]

you're watching a HO video when suddenly, and without asking, you're made to watch Extra Credits ...

[@CaptainWwowW]

You didn't choose this

[@yoshen433]

You didnt ask for this

[@yoshen433]

​@@CaptainWwowWalso orcs = black guys and you are racist

[@indieWellie]

@@yoshen433 i never asked for this. stop vicTIM blaming meee. aaaaaaaaah !

[@NickyBlue99]

I didn't choose this, nor ask from this!

[@darthkitty6883]

"No matter how much work you put into a mud pie, it does not by virtue equal the value of an apple tart" Starship Troopers as read by Arch

[@heffyhoof]

Communists tend to see the world through that lens though. They believe value is derived through the amount of work put into something, not by what actual people value.

[@revolioclockman8090]

This is much more important because there's often zero physical component, which means the games can sell for almost nothing. If you make a game for $1mil, then sell 2 million copies, you double your costs, at zero risk of overproduction. Further, you can keep selling the game for years (no secondhand market) without paying for storage. Games could literally cost $20 per copy and still make money if enough copies are sold.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

18:50 Holy shit is this ever a chris stuckmann "Stop hating on movies. people worked really hard." levels of stupid arguement. I am not buying a game based on money put into developing it, I buy a game with the expectation of how much enjoyment I can get out of it. If AAA games had $70 worth of enjoyment in them I have no problem paying $70, unfortunately not many do.

[@problematicspaghettios]

THIS!

[@ORLY911]

appeal to workers has become a common defense for the poor quality of games/movies lately. Which is a dumb argument, they already got their wage or salary from working on the game/movie. If anyone is underpaid, thats the fault of the studio or publisher, not the consumer. It's a very weaselly tactic to use this defense, corporations love it because it deflects blame.

[@SammEater]

The "everyone is a winner" mentality taken to its logical extreme. Just because you worked hard on a failure doesn't mean it is not a failure and it doesn't deserve to be called the failure that it is. People worked harder on the Justice League movie, doesn't mean it is a good film or that anyone should waste their money and time watching it.

[@Shin_Mothra]

Labor theory of value has always been dumb.

[@nerdicusdorkum2923]

Effort does not always correlate to quality. You can shovel rocks out of a ditch for 12 hours straight, but if you let the rocks roll right back into said ditch, you have done nothing productive all day. Meanwhile, someone had the bright idea of just shoveling all the rocks onto 1 end of the ditch. Now 95% of the ditch is clean, despite no rocks being taken out of the ditch either. From there, it's much easier just to grab them all from one pile for the last 5%.

[@ralgore]

Games being cheaper than ever ? A - yes AA - yes AAA/AAAA - no

[@metagen77]

AAAAAAAA what a joke

[@freedomgoddess]

​@@metagen77 screams in absolute pain

[@stephenoliveau]

I suggest you research what n64 games sold for 27yrs ago.

[@flameguy3416]

AAAA games are you buy AA and then buy the other two A's as extremely overpriced DLCs. Also the first 2 A's suck and are obviously unfinished.

[@GareWorks]

@@stephenoliveau They didn't have DLC, micro-transactions, deluxe editions, etc. They came with manuals, sometimes whole accessories, and you actually owned the damn game when you bought it. You can't just compare games and their prices, even adjusted for inflation. It's far from that simple.

[@beamstalk6475]

Extra Credits needs to go away and never come back. He is the epitome of consume product get excited for next product

[@-lloygic-3565]

Yeah. I can feel the waves of soy coming through the screen, despite being filtered through Tim's assessment.

[@mrshmuga9]

Except when it’s a WW2 game…

[@Re-PhantomZero]

The way they present the videos is insulting to everybody's intelligence, they treat their viewers like toddlers, talking like a cartoon with cartoon illustrations, it's absolutely ridiculous.

[@bazookaman1353]

He? There's multiple of them. It's like a zombie hive.

[@Re-PhantomZero]

@@bazookaman1353 a zerg hive lol.

[@artvandelay1720]

I've never understood why the cost of making AAA games is still increasing when tooling has improved to the point where random indie studios can make games that look better than starfield.

[@adamgreen5680]

Fiscal mismanagement

[@thewallsspeaktome3507]

to make more money (imagined)

[@problematicspaghettios]

​@@adamgreen5680 And bloat. Plenty of fat to trim.

[@bat-stranger3067]

They incorrectly think over hiring and over promoting now will lead to higher profits later. Instead you just get bought by Microsoft or EA and then closed.

[@ORLY911]

over hiring, an obsession with graphical fidelity, market research (to best find ways to exploit you with microtransactions/games as a service). Though ultimately, the price is where its at because they can get away with it, people are still buying, and they will for sure keep hiking prices until people stop buying. Games will be $80 when the next gen hits unless the slump of AAA keeps going, in which case they'll have to back down and lower prices again.

[@mr.gentlemanfish1011]

At some point they are going to make a video called "why spending 100$ for a AAA game is actually a good thing"

[@topnotchcupoftea]

Why would you want to spend less than $100 on a half finished buggy mess?

[@rekit7351]

make it $100 a month and you got a deal

[@topnotchcupoftea]

@@rekit7351 only 100$ a month!? What an absolute bargain!!!!

[@Chud_Bud_Supreme]

I never thought I would miss when lefties were bashing capitalism instead of shamelessly promoting it

[@Hadgerz]

"why Tarkov's new $250 price point is a step in the right direction for the future of gaming!" incoming any year now

[@eros5420]

If Tyrone's BBQ Chicken Shack sells delicious chicken for $5 and LeQueef's 5 Star restaurant "Quanta" sells a decent tasting chicken for $100... i dont care that the fancy place grew the chicken in a lab and was defeathered by ethiopian children... Ill be stopping by Tyrone's for some BBQ.

[@funkyweapon1981]

If there's a dude named Tyrone involved, it's good chicken. Just facts.

[@trevorp8124]

"Games are currently cheaper than they've ever been" *Laughs in Stellaris DLC*

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

Laughs in Total War: Warhammer DLC.

[@partyboyplays3687]

@@officerbucktuddrussel394 Laughs in Crusader Kings 2

[@freedomgoddess]

laughs in 500 euros to get all the dlcs for ONE PARADOX GAME.

[@andariel654789]

I wanna bring up Dead or Alive 6 DLC but then someone's gonna say, "it's all cosmetics, it's a non-issue".

[@GamePlayuh9510]

Chump change. *Laughs in any successful gacha.* Successful here of course meaning financially. They all _play_ like crap.

[@mrshmuga9]

8:09 “If we just accepted higher prices” That’s what they said about $70 and we still get: broken, MTX-filled, disappointing games, that cost more and longer (to develop) than games from 10-20 years ago that were way better and had a way smaller customer pool. There’s no way they can cry “we need more money” when they’ve been the _#1 entertainment medium in the world._ If you’re at the top and STILL claim it’s not profitable, that’s on YOU to fix, not the customer to pick up the tab. But they ARE making hand over fist, and could make reasonable cost-cutting measure. They just simply don’t feel like it because they’re dumb enough to only bet on $100+ million dollar AAA, 5 year development games. It’s not my job to buy them, it’s YOUR job to make it enticing enough to buy.

[@AdonanS]

I just looked up the development cost of the average AAA game. It's 60-80 million, which is less than most movies spat out these days. Hollywood manages to make a profit (if the movie is good), yet these people have the gall to raise the price despite asking for 3-7 times the cost of a movie.

[@seacliff217]

Definitely depends on the game. The Insomniac leak showed that Spiderman 2 had a budget of $300 Million, more than any Spiderman movie. And I wouldn't be surprised if other colossal games like Star field aren't far behind.

[@TheEnderCycloneEnd]

@@AdonanSWhy not just buy the good games and not buy the bad games, like you do for movies? You see the reviews, then you purchase. There are plenty of AAA games costing $70 that have been good, (BotW 2, Final Fantasy 7 remake, etc). A game obviously has to be more expensive than a movie ticket, it's a larger product.

[@AdonanS]

@@TheEnderCycloneEnd There are several lifetimes-worth of good games out there. I don't need to buy a $70 game to enjoy gaming. Also, if the budget of a game is about on par with that of a movie, that implies the production would be about the same magnitude.

[@AdonanS]

@@seacliff217 Indeed, but that's why I said AVERAGE triple A game. Still, any game asking for $70 probably has one of those massively overinflated budgets.

[@RezaQin]

These are the same people who said orcs are black people.

[@torrasque0151]

And playing as WW2 Germans in MP shooters is problematic.

[@johngobble]

and that all media is political somehow, I fucking hated that one

[@AimlessSavant]

@@torrasque0151 you didnt ask for it, you didnt want it. But there it is.

You can dislike them all you want but that just isn’t true. That entire video was about the nature of portraying fantasy races as pure evil and not allowing them to have nuance and was compared to reasonings people used to justify racism in the early 1900’s. You can dislike them but at least be honest about it.

[@princetchalla2441]

That's comparing apples to orangutans, I don't need gronk the orc to have a sad backstory about how his mom died and that he's just misunderstood if he's just going to be the guy who's shooting children for fun in a warhammer story. Some things are supposed to be hated, with aspirations and desires different from our own. That's what makes those fantasy stories fantasy. There's no need for a grounded basis in the real world with motives for every ephereal being.

[@45Thunderbird]

Isnt extra credits the channel that started actin the mickey over someone having to play the germans in WW2 MP games?

[@terribleivan1475]

Yeah

[@Noperare]

They are also the one saying orcs are black people therefore D&D is racist

[@ElliotKeaton]

@@Noperare "If I show you an orc and you see a black person, I have bad news for you."

[@Noperare]

@@ElliotKeaton right? Orcs are greenskined and their facial features match no human race. Their sole defining caracteristic is being violent brutes. If you associate that with black people, that is on you buddy, not me.

[@Pinkdam]

They went crazy about ragging on Total Biscuit too.

[@HyakuSh1ki]

"Don't worry, the game is only 70 bucks! And the dlcs are also cheap, all 20 of them + the battle pass!"

[@GareWorks]

Only one battle pass? What about next year's battle pass? And the next three season passes?

[@jackpijjin4088]

+ the subscription services needed to play the game (mandatory)(not available in some regions) + the always-online DRM

[@HyakuSh1ki]

@@jackpijjin4088 the game will also be shutdown in 2-3 years and we will remove it from your library without your consent, even though it's mostly a single player game with extra online features. Fuck you, pay me.

[@connoromalley4004]

This is your brain on the Labor Theory of Value.

[@AveryHyena]

Why does this just feel like the "grocery and fuel prices are actually cheaper than ever in 2024!" argument

[@scrim6398]

Gaming companies aren't your friends no matter how sympathetic they try to appear. As consumers we're essentially in a business relationship with them and we should always be trying to maximize our own gains in that relationship. If enforcing consumer standards means a good chunk of the industry dies so be it, that's how you maintain quality.

[@TheWolfgangGrimmer]

Damn right.

[@TMFlesh]

I remember when Extra Credits used to talk about the behind the scenes of game development, story writing, and mechanics.

[@MyAramil]

Yes. I remember it well.

[@torrasque0151]

Even the "behind the scenes" stuff was misleading as they only worked on no-name mobile slop.

[@Mariobro4]

Pepperidge farm remembers.

[@Shimamon27]

What a time...

[@isaac6077]

@@torrasque0151why am i not surprised

[@marinribaric9749]

One way to make them affordable: cut out all the middle management and consultant fat from the company

[@problematicspaghettios]

DAS RACIST!!!!

[@BillRoyMcBill]

Those people probably account for 2/3rds of the overall price at the end.

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

While they're at it they can fire the writers and get some new ones

[@mrbubbles6468]

Then your game fails to be marketed or sold well and your community goes to crap. And thr devs that can’t people suddenly have to deap with all that instead of makong games. Because that’s what most of the money goes towards.

[@SammEater]

​@@mrbubbles6468If you need a canadian consultant company that hates your audience to market the game for you then you deserve to fall.

[@powercage]

I absolutely *hate* this guy's energy.

[@Buugipopuu]

It's impressive that he's gotten even worse since that video about orcs being racist. I guess everyone with any standards unsubbed from him so now the only feedback he gets is from sycophants.

[@BillRoyMcBill]

He sounds like the host of a children's educational gameshow...except no prizes, and you don't get to try to answer the questions yourself.

[@decorumlopez9147]

Back in the day, it was the same... but delivered in a chipmunk voice.

[@ORLY911]

he's simultaneously a bleeding heart but also a corporate shill. Two punchable characteristics in one.

[@Marcara081]

Tell you what, it's because he talks like he's never had a conversation with someone who disagrees with him. Otherwise he wouldn't say something so obviouysly stupid.

[@enkiduthewildman]

Using inflation to argue that prices are actually lower for luxury goods is such a misunderstanding of basic economics that it counts as disingenuous even if it's simple ignorance.

[@annatardlordofderps9181]

How is it possible for Extra Credits to *always* be wrong? Its like they actually undsrstand whats going on and are simply saying the opposite for some reason or another. To sum up a host of economic concepts in a concise manner. Cost of Game Vs Necessitity of Game - Cost of everything else. Video games are a luxury item. You do not need them to survive. So during tough economic times they are the first to be cut and last to be recovered

[@SammEater]

Possibly for the same reason Stuckmann defends even the worst movies. He doesn't want to burn possible bridges to the industry.

[@probablyjinxed]

@@SammEaterstuckmann?? sounds like he’s sucking them off….man…

[@silasthefish]

total income..of course thats what he bases it off of. and not NET INCOME.

[@forlexer]

Good point. Average incomes have not kept up with inflation... So it contradicts their entire point... Don't even get started on the gaming industry becoming the behemoth it is today and how games delivered aren't full products, and the cost increases with micro transactions that out do the original price

[@Marcara081]

You can't expect a shit-lib to understand basic economics. I mean, you can't even be a shit-lib if you understand basic economics.

[@vysethegallant638]

I love how the crux of Extra Credits' argument is "players shouldn't base the worth of a game by how much fun they have with it but by how much the game costs after inflation". Rather than taking the former part and coming to the conclusion of "developers should make games that are more fun for the player", they instead drive the latter part and assert: "the player should feel more comfortable paying more for their games".

[@isaac6077]

Cause deep down every leftist does legitimately hates the average man. Theyre all dullards who just can see how the leftist midwits and so smart. I think it chides them to no end.

[@Hewhowantstoknow]

That guy doing the presentation for Extra Credits now a days sounds insufferable and condescending

[@shaicat]

All of their presenters have sounded insufferable and condescending.

[@superspicysoysauce8231]

I missed the pre-2016 election EC......

[@MegabyteRedSector]

@@superspicysoysauce8231 Pre 2016, hell... pre 2014... they fell off at a certain consumer revolt.

[@M4Dbrat]

@@MegabyteRedSector They did a "gamers don't have to be your audience" video in 2012

[@MegabyteRedSector]

@@M4Dbrat didnt have the exact year in memory but yes.. they did.. I never forgot they did... and if we are dead to them, well... the dead don't watch your vids. ;) Ive been away from them a long time.Im not coming back

[@SammEater]

I still remember the end of Secret of Monkey Island when Guybrush Threepwood says: "Never pay more than 20 bucks on a computer game".

[@64bitmodels66]

I definitely have paid more than 20 bucks for a video game, but also 20 bucks in 1990 is 50 dollars now and I don't pay 60 dollars for most video games so it works out right?..... right?

[@Xellos14]

I love the most obvious argument against this kind of corpo boot licking mentality is brushed off immediately as "We'll discuss this huge sticking point at another time, maybe." No, I think I'd rather address it now. If games and tech became so much cheaper with all of the boosts technology made, then it's not on the consumer to balloon the budgets any. The consumer isn't setting the price. They might dictate what you can sell it for, but that's not the heart of the criticism being addressed in their video any. AAA games are expensive because bloated corporations want money. Better games routinely come out and dunk on garbage, over priced, over padded and dripped in glamor "Triple A" studio works. The industry just doesn't want to admit that technological improvements impact their costs in the opposite direction, obfuscating their costs and bloating their budgets to keep in toe with inflation and use it as a shield from criticism.

[@Darkcide-tl7kl]

extra credit looking for those industry hookups.

[@partyboyplays3687]

They’ve been massive shills since forever. When people started criticizing this, they pulled the breadtuber logic of: “We have to make a living too!”.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

18:40 So because Microsoft CHOSE to spend more money on redfall regardless of quality or content then that justifies it's price point?

[@petesmith13]

Another thing i love is when they remake a game and instead of updating it, adding some polish they completely redesign it and sell it as 3 separate games

[@decorumlopez9147]

...censor it...

[@MyAramil]

Then change things they feel is problematic "Oh in this game, we changed the main character from a white cis hetero male to a black trans woman, Its what the audience really wanted after all!!!!!!!"

[@TheKillianKanVT]

@@MyAramil Hey, don't spoil remake of knights of old republic, jeez.

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

I remember the Destroy All Humans 2 remake removed a side mission because it was about a husband who wanted to transition, but also loved his wife and was conflicted, but you basically go force him to confront his wife anyway. It wasn't making fun of the husband or anything, there was no "message" it was pushing, but somehow it was still deemed offensive.

[@Aa-dn1oq]

I recently had the displeasure of discovering the New Vegas video they made about a decade ago One of the single worst videos on the game. They hallucinated the protagonist had amnesia and complained the game didn't give you enough backstory, while also criticizing the game for "not having a first act" (????)

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

How does Extra Credits fail every time 😂

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Who knew Jon making that kids history series would spin off into the worst channel ever.

[@G-Mastah-Fash]

He does have amnesia according to old world blues because he doesn't remember nuking the divide.

[@ObliviousAdobo]

@@G-Mastah-Fash You mean Lonesome Road not OWBs because The Think Tank would know nothing of the outside world since that's literally the entire crux of the plot. And that's not necessarily true in itself. The devs have stated and it's pretty well presented in the dlc of the game itself through the dialogue that it's open ended if it was actually The Courier's fault for the Divide. The Courier could have amnesia, could've been completely ignorant to the package he/she was delivering or just be an unrelated courier prior to the Divides demise Ulysses' managed to coincidentally recognize as one of the couriers that did one of the last runs to the divide before it blew up who coincidentally would show up to deliver House's Chip later on in the base game.

[@G-Mastah-Fash]

@@ObliviousAdobo Oh wait I meant lonesome road. Sorry.

[@mariokarter13]

10 Years Ago: We need microtransations because $60 is just not enough to pay for making the game anymore. Now: That'll be $120 for the deluxe edition, don't forget we also have a Battle Pass and microtransactions.

[@ElliotKeaton]

I remember back in 2005 when Iwata talked about how the insane growth the game industry had experienced was largely due to population growth and people having enough money to buy multiple consoles, and that the level of growth the game industry was betting on with their increased production costs simply wasn't sustainable. Iwata argued that a healthy industry needed to focus on three pillars: Core gamers, lapsed gamers and non gamers. He said that otherwise the industry would be forced to to make as much money as possible from the proverbial pyramid cap to maintain themselves. The result was the entire gaming community shitting on Nintendo for years because they didn't believe him and casual gamers were yucky.

[@dnoordink]

The price of a triple-A game will be what most plebs are willing to pay. Stop pre-ordering this crap and buying deluxe editions, and the studios making the crap go out of business. Win win!

[@tylere.8436]

I'd say boycott pre-order totally and the launch month, then only buy it once the price inevitably drops if they stay on shelves for too long. That should communicate to the publishers what price the people are willing to actually play.

[@tylerharris7081]

True, if the demand for AAA price game decreases then developers will have to lower the price.

[@Xellos14]

Extra Credits has been cancer for a while, imo. No shock a brainlette take like this is coming off their channel.

[@GeneralPotatoSalad]

A long while. I got into their stuff when they (and I) were relatively new. I spouted one of their takes in front of a friend. Problem is, they used as an example a game that my friend had. He had me play it, and I realized they weren't merely wrong, they were outright lying about the importance of certain aspects to better prove their point.

[@yersiniopestis2553]

I remember back in the 2000s, getting a booklet in the game case, that I could read on the way home before I played the game. It would give you a ton of heads up information before you even played the game. Some games even came with the soundtrack discs or posters, or switchable case covers. You really felt like even opening up the game itself was an experience and you got something to keep on a shelf after you were done with the game. I miss those days so much that its hard to even put into words. Now, they nickle and dime you for every single component a game and you don't have a single piece of physical media to show for it, unless you pay for it individually if they even have them at all. I feel so bad for kids who don't get that kind of experience anymore.

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

Reminds me of when the physical copies of Fallout 76 were supposedly just cardboard discs with a code written on it to go install the game instead.

[@Chud_Bud_Supreme]

"You will accept inflation and you will be happy," _EC

[@tylere.8436]

Eat ze bugs and live in the pod, at least you can play your drm paytoplay games. 😊

[@shinigamiauthor]

Piracy is a moral and economic good

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

It's like trying clothes on before you buy them.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

I love unauthorized copying! I love sharing files with my friends online!

[@Marcara081]

Can't steal won't you don't own, right Steam?

[@ElliotKeaton]

Bleh. Just own your actions.

[@medanon7221]

I think what actually happened is the industry grew to the point where Gamers Didn't Have To Be Their Audience, normies could be instead, and normies simply do not care about these sorts of things nearly as much. Also lmao "cost of AAA dev increased" not my problem buddy, sounds like a skill issue.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

11:50 Then how the fuck did video games become a multi-billion dollar industry?

[@terribleivan1475]

Stock trading

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

Shareowners mostly, also firing half the staff just before the end of the quarter to artificially boost profits. If anything AAA games should cost way less because the product isn't even where the real money is anymore. That's just some extra pocket change to them.

[@DekuLord]

"Hey Gamers, be unreasonable, demand $20 AAA Games". We already get that 6 months after release a lot of the time. If games were really worth the $70 pricepoint, they'd be able to sustain it once the Hype deflated

[@CptMarkka]

Games would be less expensive to make if games studios cut off the unnecessary fat, like CEOs that get paid tens of millions every year, DEI departments and trashtastic PR people.

[@BlueGamingRage]

I love extra credits because they cook up the funniest videos. Like when they equated playing a role in a video game as being that person

[@paxluporum4447]

But I did eat breakfast this morning.

[@jeice13]

Measuring the price of games against inflation doesnt mean anything useful unless your income went up proportionately

[@Nefiir]

This is the same genius who said we'd run out of internet by 2012.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

what? how? why?? the internet isn't a pie that everyone eats a sliver of. that's Bill Clinton levels of boomerbrain.

[@ADway-hn7qu]

I dont agree with the premise that games are simply more expensive to make. AAA publishers and studios are just bloated. A small team of indie developers could churn out a AAA experience with just what Rocksteady pays the HR director.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

surely the costs are getting lower. especially if studios would use engines with no license fee like Godot.

[@64bitmodels66]

@@xXx_Regulus_xXx no triple A studio is using Godot as their engine. The 3D engine is too limited and corporations hate supporting open source software of any kind (because they're evil)

[@V2ULTRAKill]

​@@xXx_Regulus_xXxmost AAA studios literally use their own in house engine homie

[@seenkyle5591]

He's a mutli billion dollar company shill

[@robertbeisert3315]

Citing the Bureau of Lies and Sophistics

[@raccoononymous]

Its crazy that there is a KZbin channel whose entire premise is apologetics for a billion-dollar industry and being anti-consumer.

[@AscendantStoic]

Not only has microtransactions/battlepases/lootboxes hugely inflated the cost of games but it's also in conjunction with us getting less quality content per dollar, previously a game would come feature complete and with tons of unlockables and stuff ... now it's bare bones and all the unlockable stuff has been turned into microtransactions ... so much so that a game like Stellar Blade coming with dozens of unlockable outfits was quite shocking to many people.

[@demomanchaos]

Worst part is now they started sneaking in those "marketplaces" a month or so after launch so the reviews don't mention them and people who jumped in early can't refund the game. Tekken 8's customization menu is absolutely bare bones and I knew something was fishy, then a month after launch here comes to "marketplace" selling back everything they cut out.

[@metagen77]

I was self teaching gamedevelopment for years and watched them, they combine ancient outdated ideas like bartles taxonomy with their own dreamt up excretions and agendas. Truly awful. If you want to get at your competition get them to follow EC.

[@mayomonkey9778]

My gripe is even having a "standard price" for games in the first place (i.e. $60,now $70). For one it's an extremely bizarre sales format that virtually no other products confirm to (movies at the cinema I guess?). Why do we as consumers put up with it? Secondarily, and related but far more important, is that forcibly kneecaps the few games that may be genuinely worth more to cap out at the standard while allowing most of the garbage slop games to get away with artifically increased prices that they do not deserve.

[@mrshmuga9]

So many games are priced $60 that were really only worth like $30 or $40. And not even in a “AAA games suck” kinda way. I mean the scope of the project and cost to develop were not that high. But they still charged $60 because people see that as the base price for all retail games. A bunch of companies probably made more money because that’s the perspective of game pricing, but no one accounts for that.

[@SammEater]

​@@mrshmuga9Like sports games, yeah yeah, I know, but I still enjoy playing one sports game here and there. They are always sold at fullprice at the year of release, but wait a few months and a game worth 70 bucks is now 10 and is not even an used copy. Lol

[@64bitmodels66]

@@mrshmuga9 Eh I feel like the cap at 70 is a good thing then because if there were no "cap" companies would extort 150 dollars out of your for the BASE edition if they could.

[@mrshmuga9]

@@64bitmodels66 And how many people would actually be buying at that price? Normies might be suckers, but I don't think they'd be buying at that high of a price.

[@LordAnti]

If you were selling the same $60 product to the same people for decades, you will lose money. But there's no mention of how the population of gamers have gone up, meaning there's more people to sell your games too. The profit margins for publishers have only gone up. They are not forced to make big budget games, they choose to because it makes them more money. Companies want you to buy their game because it makes it more likely to purchase paid DLC.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

14:25 He doesn't ever touch on how financial mismanagement can lead to Palworld can be made for a $6.75 million dollars and be sold for $30, where suicide squad kill the justice league is made for $200 million dollars, be sold for $70 AND have microtransaction in it does he.... Hey Extra Credits here's an idea, no-one is forcing games companies to spend brobdingnagian levels of money to make "AAA" games. So how about they tighten their belts a bit if the price of making games is so high?

[@indieWellie]

we live in a time of AAAA games now, where governments and private equity groups splurge millions and millions on what effectively becomes a make-work jobs programme.

[@mrshmuga9]

Not to mention these companies report record profits, even adjusted for inflation. I mean, video games were recognized as the #1 highest grossing entertainment medium… a decade ago. If your audience is that huge and you’re (supposedly) not making much, that’s a failure on you to capitalize on it. Especially with how much they put into marketing too.

[@ClarkKentai]

This Extra Credits guy sounds like he could sit on a flagpole and still have room to devour a 12-oz steak.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

10:30 So how much should we have to pay for this stuff to go away? Because me thinks that regardless of whether or not the base prices went up greeding games companies were always going to squeeze every last cent they could from every game.

[@MrSamuelAdam4]

Extra Credits can't stop taking Ls.

[@GeneralMontague]

STOP IT, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF INTERNET

[@TheWolfgangGrimmer]

That one was an absurd level of stupid...

[@robertbeisert3315]

Percentage of income isn't even the best metric. "What percentage of my non-essential spending" is better. If game prices and income are static, but my rent doubles, games are relatively more expensive than they were.

[@MotorHorse]

I can't even remember the last AAA title that I purchased for full retail price, let alone ENJOYED and was satisfied with said price.

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

It seems pretty pointless when they'll be 20% off a month later, and 50-80% off in a year. Saint's Row 2023, was completely free on Epic Games less than 6 months after release lol.

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

I think mine was Crash 4, to help support the return of the funny bandicoot. Then the devs were sent to work on COD.. Great.. Oh how naive I was back then.

[@funkyweapon1981]

@@GangsterFrankensteinComputer And nobody liked it.

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

@@funkyweapon1981 exactly, if a game sucks, it'll be free within a year.

[@FlutterSwag]

Meanwhile hollow knight was $15 on launch

[@vladprus4019]

Because it wasnt made by the overstuffed studio with bloated management and sky high marketing budgeting

[@baddragonite]

Indie games are a slap in the face to the industry's argument about price, considering they're so successful on a budget that is a fraction of what the big AAA titles are and at a price that is much more reasonable. That's why we are/will see more "B titles" coming out with lower bidgets and a slightly lower price.

[@CkVega]

Used to pay £1.99 for ZX Spectrum games in the mid to late 80s.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

If one of the reasons why games were so expensive back in the day was physical media then why in todays market is both physical and digital copies of the same game the same price?

[@VenomothManne]

I can't believe tim became armoured skeptic for this stream and also responded to the Nazi one

[@PepsiMan666]

Isn't Skeptic into spirit science and conspiracy theories now?

[@DCG909]

​@@PepsiMan666 That wouldn't surprise me... It's weird seeing where some folks ended up.

[@ollehkacb]

​@@PepsiMan666i mean either his break-up with June hit him hard or he is doing and epic troll

[@PepsiMan666]

@@ollehkacb too long to be an ebin troll

[@ollehkacb]

@@PepsiMan666 I think he has normal videos and troll videos. Uses click bait on all of them.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

I love how they treat inflation and especially covid era inflation as just an inevitability.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

just came back to this video and thought Harmful was calling it "nine-eleven long" as some sort of sep11 flavored insult, but lo and behold the video is 9 minutes 11 seconds.

[@signa8]

They have fallen so far. I remember back in the day, they made videos about how incredible the medium of video games were, and what sorts of positive things it could do for people's lives. Now it's all this unadulterated garbage. You can hear the lies they tell every sentence in the weasel words they use. They want you to believe what they believe, not because it's true, but because they believe it.

[@yusukeelric]

Budgets for AAA started to balloon HOLD THE FUCK RIGHT THERE. No they really didn't in like 10 years. games, are essentially as complex as PS3 games, even less sometimes... But there is a resource BLOAT. there is bloat all over the industry WHAT STARTED TO BALLOOON IS MARKETING AND EXECUTIVE COSTS and unnecessary game bloat. Look at games credits see how much of it is directed at marketing and community managers and things NOT FUCKING RELATED TO GAMES. Fuck AAA. Why do they have to hire GIANT SOUND STUDIOS. Why do they need to hire 200 musicians, 20 writers, 400 Stunt artist. What ballooned out of control is SELF restraint. You can triple or quadruple the staff of a KOJIMA game now. Why? Maybe they should think in CUTTING down production and marketing costs instead of adding 2000 achievementrs, 3000 collectibles, Have a cameo with 4 popular bands, Hire 20 idiots that will turn some 10 years old meme into the game assets versions of it IM LOOKING AT YOU SONY. AAA is falling under its own vices. And it deserves it. Game industry is fine. AAA is dying... And citing dumb articles... " And that ... is a good thing"

[@BillRoyMcBill]

They weren't always like this, but this is the path they chose...Tardation Trail.

[@thegodofalldragons]

The guy that actually had passion for video games (Dan) left a long time ago to do his own channel (New Frame Plus, which is really good, btw) and it's been downhill from there. That just left them with James, who seems to have been the resident activist of the group (and now they don't even have him).

[@s.sradon9782]

"Consider inflation bRo". The fact a pound is worth less now doesnt mean I make more money.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

16:45 And the consumer/gamers are forcing them to spend this much time, effort and money in making games? WB just HAD to piss how much money up against the wall to get sweet baby stinks help, the customers demanded it! They couldn't possibly have saved that money and made the game cheaper, that's crazy talk.

[@Marcara081]

One of the more horrifying things to consider about inflation of cost is that after the invention of the computer, the cost of government upkeep has skyrocketed. One might suppose that computers would drastically reduce the labor necessary to maintain infrastructure, etc. Yet, SOMEHOW IT INCREASED IT. It's just one of those things where you know the country is going to collapse. I mean, it can't even use computers to lower costs.

[@MrAnthraxes]

"If we gaslight enough, we can claim games are cheaper now!" Also love how they are glossing over the fact that by making games digitally available its not only "cheaper" to sell them, they can also be sold to basically ANYONE on the planet now, increasing their reach and salesnumbers by several factors... Also... something tells me that videogame-sales numbers in the 90s were... "slightly"... lower than today. Almost like, IDK, WAY more people are playing/buying them. There's a f*cking reason Game-Publishers are raking in litteral Billions each year, and Videogames are now considered the most profitable entertainment-medium.

[@dhayris160]

"It feels like games are so expensive now!!" I didnt tell you to spend 200 million making a video game. Im not taking on the financial burden you've so arbitrarily placed on yourselves. EDIT: He very clinically avoids talking about how much of the full game the 70 dollars get you. Most of the DLC is developed alongside the base game. A full game is 110 dollars now.

[@Jfieldsend94]

Even if it were true, considering that every game now expects you to pay for dlc and additional content, some games releasing with $100+ ultimate editions, which is essentially the actual full game, the fact that the base price is $70 means nothing. If i pay $70 on release, and then have to pay another $20 in 2 or 3 month increments just to get content that should really have been in the game on release, then the game was never $70

[@christianforgione8905]

“Don’t ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product.”

[@JohnDoe-gz3qt]

The thing that really disgusts me about EC is the holier than thou humble bragging. Fuck that shit!

[@Shin_Mothra]

He actually explained how basic economics and subjective value work as if it was incorrect!

[@Nick-zm2vm]

Extra Credits is the kind of channel that would make a video explaining why the $250 version of Tarkov actually isn't greedy.

[@Toactwithoutthinking]

More like Extra Reddit

[@problematicspaghettios]

Nice

[@crimsonpotemkin]

I hate the new extra credits. The extra credits since this 0:23 turd of a human being joined.

[@BrettLane256]

It still bothers me that people forget that you could buy a brand new first party gcn game for $30 back in 2003.

[@jackpijjin4088]

I remember buying Chibi-Robo and Pikmin 2 for around $40 each.

[@telkota1247]

$70 (or more) is still too expensive for a lot of games if we consider the rising price of living and inflation compared to the growth of income, especially considering all the extra monetization methods a lot of publishers tack on. I've always bought games on sales anyway, with the rare occasion of getting a new game if I really want it.

[@Joutube_is_trash]

"One artisanal video game please" "That'll be $120"

[@rcrc9943]

Extra credits have been smoothed brain since the original guy left, but since the orc and nazi thing it seems they went full tardo

[@torrasque0151]

Even the original guy shit on Gamergate, TotalBiscuit and defended the harridans and witches.

[@Ps1woman]

Extra Credits: Games are cheaper than theyve ever been Me: Huh, I find your ability to be wrong disturbing. Extra Credits: But? Me: I also find your lack of Faith in the Force disturbing.

[@leerman22]

"We put half the game behind a paywall!"

[@captainahab8244]

That’s the channel that called black people, Orcs, right?