I Live in Israel. I Never Hear About What My Country Is Doing to Gaza.

Israeli anger toward Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been building in the year since the Oct. 7 Hamas attacks. Mairav Zonszein, an Israeli-American journalist and analyst, argues that this anger does not extend to the plight of the Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank. More than 41,000 people have been killed in Gaza, and yet, she says, Israelis are stuck in a cycle of “apathy” and “indifference,” unable to fully realize the devastation befalling their neighbors.
Thoughts? Email us at [e-mail].

[@toddmccloskey9425]

Thank you NYTs. 90% of your coverage around this is horrid and biased. This makes up for a bit of it. Frank speaking.

[@temps25]

They make up for past errors by failing to assign blame to Iran?

[@rossbaker9721]

It’s astounding to me the fact Israelis either don’t want to know or just aren’t being told what they’ve done to 42,000 Palestinians. The children they have murdered and orphaned. We feel for them for October 7 absolutely. But it’s hard to care for them after the monstrous acts they’ve perpetrated in Gaza. Hamas is a terrorist group, but Israel is a genocidal state.

[@17thsavior]

They are acting like they live in North Korea or something with the way the information blockade is being portrayed. They can open youtube and look up counterviews if they really want it on european news or places like al jazeera english etc. They just don't want to see that reality so they can sleep guiltless at night. It's institutionalized ignorance.

[@alangould7154]

it's astounding to me that u apparently still haven't realized that hamas is banking on people like u to fall for all the carnage and destruction and attribute it to israel. u never saw the video that went viral of the gazan who asked a hamas leader if he/she could join him in the tunnels and the hamasnik said it's just for hamas. if u urself were a hamas leader would u first build shelters for ur people b4 becoming a billionaire? have u not listened to all the people who say the civilian deaths is low compared to similar past conflicts? true, israelis aren't seeing the images on their TVs that u are. but do u think israelis don't look at int'l news? they're hearing/seeing protests in israel about the hostages, many people know hostages and/or dead. there's widespread volunteerism, absenteeism cuz of deployed reservists. so i think they know what's going on. they just don't know what to do. they know that the kibbutzim took gazans to israeli hospitals (there was a coordinated service) and gazans were happy to work in the kibbutzim. so like in western europe, there's a sense that islam is a cult that's incompatible w western liberalism and there's no solution. btw, i'm a secular american living in tel aviv now for 9 yrs and wouldn't dream of moving back to the US which i couldn't stand.

[@foundyif]

“There’s no longer a sense in Israel of reaching some kind of solution with the Palestinians, it’s more how do we get rid of this problem?” Speaks volumes. May Palestine be freed, and all the occupied territories. I appreciate this woman’s honesty and sympathy.

[@mznxbcv12345]

On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians. Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1 According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total. On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1 When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1 From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations. A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower. The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest. The reported ages of the victims are as follows: 0-4: 2 civilians 5-12: 8 civilians 13-17: 14 civilians 18-25: 132 civilians 26-40: 119 civilians 41-60: 55 civilians 61+: 40 civilians Active duty military personnel: 18-25: 258 active duty military personnel 26-40: 60 active duty military personnel 41-60: 17 active duty military personnel 61+: 1 active duty military personnel haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%" -Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well' -Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband' Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023: 2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440. 2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255. 2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492. 2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300. 2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138. 2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30. 2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349. 2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191. 2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227. civilian deaths on the other side - 2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9 2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26 Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel. Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc Even with being very very generous in extending the "civilian" nomenclature to those that are reservists. Not to mention ignoring the fact that the majority of the attacks were done in by their own forces inorder to prevent their capture, it is still incomparable to what was done in prior years. In the Tantura (2022) documentary there is a iTf man who says that they took a pregnant woman, made bets whether the baby is a boy or a girl, disemboweled and cut her stomach open to check who won, another one talking about school children who were raising their the hands, the same way kids do in a classroom, after he rounded them up. He then kept firing. Both laughing merrily and casually at the recollection. In another documentary '1948: Creation & Catastrophe', a survivor speaks about women getting violated infront of their family members by iTf. She was a child at the time and still wept as an elderly woman. For more recent atrocities, "Breaking the Silence" record statements by the iTf themselves, they recount the events witht he same casualty their forebears do. The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 , in other words 6 million deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Oded Yinon Plan. More on the Oded Yinon plan - According to the founding father of zionism, theodore hertzel, the area of the jewish state stretches from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates; the promised land extends from the river of Egypt up to the Euphrates and includes parts of Syria and Lebanon; when viewed in the current context including the siege on Gaza the zionist plan for the middle east bears an intimate relationship to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the 2006 war in Lebanon, the 2011 war on Libya and Syria and the continued crisis in Iraq and Yemen, not to mention the political crisis in the kingdom of saudi Arabia. In the 1980s an article written by a former senior official with the israeli foreign ministry in which israel shahak wrote a forward to which says "in my opinion the accurate and detailed plan of the present zionist regime of ariel sharon for the middle east which is based on the division of the whole area into small states and the dissolution of all the existing Arab states."

[@ranro7371]

eye opening? the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses: “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9 “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.” -1 Samuel 15:3 “Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.” -Jeremiah 6:11 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” -Hosea 13:16 The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers: “in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.” Another account by a chronicler and eyewitness-priest, Albert of Aachen, describes the killing of fleeing women, and depicts crusaders as:: “seizing [infants who were still suckling] by the soles of their feet from their mothers’ laps or their cradles…and dashing them against the walls or lintels of the doors and breaking their necks […] they were sparing absolutely no gentile of any age or kind.”The incoherence inherent in a stranger to Abraham calling the children of Abraham gentiles notwithstanding, this account evokes the very same Psalm 137:9 imprecation against Babylon, in Latin, “beatus qui tenebit et adlidet parvulos tuos ad petram.” Albert describes a massacre occurring, in cold blood, on the second day following the conquest, painting a scene that is as horrific as it is realistic and detailed: "Girls, women, matrons, tormented by fear of imminent death and horror-struck by the violent murder wrapped themselves around the Christians’ bodies in the hope to save their lives, even as the Christians were raving and venting their rage in murder of both sexes. Some threw themselves at their feet, begging them with pitiable weeping and wailing for their lives and safety. When children five or three years old saw the cruel fate of their mothers and fathers, of one accord they stepped up the weeping and pitiable clamour. But they were making these signals for pity and mercy in vain. For the Christians gave over their whole hearts to murder, so that not a suckling little male-child or female, not even an infant of one year would escape the hand of the murderer". Evoking several of these verses in practice: - (Num 31:17-18) Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. - (Deut 7:2, 9:3, Num 21) thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them... - (Deut 20:16-17) thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth - (Josh 6:21, 8:24-27, 10:, 11:11-14,21-22) And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword... And cut off their thumbs and their great toes... He left none remaining: - (Judg 18:27) And they took [the things] which Micah had made ...and came unto Laish ...and smote them with the edge of sword burnt city fire. - (1 Sam 15:1-9) Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have and spare them not but slay both man and woman infant and suckling ox and sheep camel and ass. - (1 Sam 27:9,11) And David smote the land and left neither man nor woman alive ... - (Esther 8:11, 9:1-19) Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together and to stand for their life to destroy to slay and to cause to perish all the power of the people and province that would assault them both little ones and women and to take the spoil of them for a prey... . - (Ezek 9:6) Slay utterly old [and] young both maids and little children and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] mark begin at my sanctuary. This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished. This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah): "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit." This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship." It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children." بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة "To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause" -Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah: حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ» "Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries" حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ» سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ» "The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly" This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them. The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context. God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.

[@papeetechild]

Those people weren't all attacked by resistance groups. Many, probably most, of those civilians were killed by Israelis.

[@calj2090]

Thank You for saying it out loud

[@user-wr4yl7tx3w]

What can US do given AIPAC. Elected officials lose their job if they don’t support Netanyahu.

[@puck9103]

Excellent piece. Israel is divided as is the U.S.

[@AgathaZeus]

Free Palestine 🇵🇸 ✨️

[@ontrada]

This is the best you can do, NYTs?

[@ginger22ly]

Haaretz has a lot of information about Gaza. What does she read?

[@dante21943]

Honest

[@alextab25]

Good episode

[@emzed1275]

I live in North Korea…..I know about k pop and South Korean soaps.

[@The_Tisch]

Today. You put this out today. There are so many angles to the wider story. There are 364 other days. Why put this one out today?

[@theobnoxiousotter5554]

what is your point?

[@chasdawes7541]

This shows not all Israelis support Netanyahu's brutal warmongering policies, when clearly the vast majority of the population are a-okay with it. Most won't see how this reflects America, but I sure do.

[@stoneneils]

Look at your big concern..why today and not tommorrow..that is why today..to snap you out of your safe-space mentality.

[@temps25]

@@stoneneils Do you realize the leftist support for gaza is simply a history of bootlicking the soviets?

[@nurulnadiahazmi1156]

Really? How old are you?

[@theobnoxiousotter5554]

Free Palestine

[@andreielefant]

This is the content you’ve decided to place on 7th of October?????😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢 Shame on you! She is not really living in Israel!

[@claireconover]

she says she lives in isreal. you don’t. her point is valid. you can live with it.

[@andreielefant]

@@claireconover Thanks for proving my point. I’m living in Israel for my entire life, and you can easily tell that she is not. Doesn’t take much. If you know people in Israel (no matter what is their political view) just send them this, and ask them….

[@shishkabobby]

Did you do any research? She is Israeli-American. You can Google her.

[@aceofcups3493]

Truth remains regardless of the date or the feelings of the affected. Israelis should be the first to attest to that, considering how many Holocaust deniers there are.

[@valdomero738]

Lmao seethe

[@OriAriel94]

I live in Israel and she is absolutely right

[@alangould7154]

i live in israel and feel she's irresponsible in failing to capture the complexity.

[@OriAriel94]

@@alangould7154 Failing to capture the complexity is a perfect description of israeli mainstream media :)

[@everettbr]

@@alangould7154 the complexity summing up to "ethnic cleansing is not that great, but what if we really want to have more land? war is not that great, but what if our political system sustains itself through it?"

[@alangould7154]

@@everettbr how would u know the israeli mind? look how divided they are regarding saving the hostages or defying the world and continuing to put a serious dent in hamas, hez, iran. i was just listening to israelis talk about how they were forced to end the war w hamas in the past cuz of the destruction, so hamas just rebounded and tried again. actually, israelis don't want all the land. they gave back sinai, they gave back gaza although they had to retain control for their security. i was just watching "apostate prophet" a turkish former muslim who loves israel. he shows how wealthy gaza was compared to many poorer places -- ironically ones that are pitying the gazans. i couldn't find the footage that showed gaza's wealthy areas but pierre rehov shows it in his films. ironically, it's the arabs who are land hungry. they can't give up a tiny sliver of land. but that's islam. they have to control any land they once conquered. and the israeli system is not sustaining itself on this war. it's now twice been downgraded by moody's, there's no tourism, they've gone into debt. when a country is at war, there will b many who want it to stop while others will say we have to finish the job. i won't respond to u again. not worth it.

[@alangould7154]

@@everettbr my response was removed and it's tiring to have to respond again. earlier today i listened to 2 israeiis discuss the options -- end the war and get the hostages or continue the war w the possibility more hostages will die. they both agreed that in years past,. they caved to world pressure to end the fighting which meant they had to fight again years later. they've done serious damage to hez, hamas, iran so there's understandable motivation to continue. if u look into it, u'll see most iranians want their regime to fall but can't fight it. i would have to agree w those who say let's fight iran. as far as israel craving more land, it gave up sinai and gaza. i agree it has no choice but to oversee gaza but it did pull every israeli out of there. islam demands it controls all land that fell to it. it's ur side that can't give up a tiny, tiny sliver of the arab lands. as far as the israeli system living for war, the economy is taking a hit. moody's downgraded israel twice and many israelis left. there's no tourism. israelis can't return to their homes in the north.

[@temps25]

So: - you are living in Israel under constant threat of bombing - you admit it is hard to be an Israeli pretty much anywhere else in the world It seems your entire video is calling out *only* the Israeli government, while it seems evident by your own account that they have no place to go, and even then they are bombarded and attacked. How is this not bias on your behalf?

[@theobnoxiousotter5554]

there is no complexity. The Israeli government is committing genocide against the people of Gaza. that needs to stop.

[@claireconover]

criticizing your government isn’t “biased”. we all do it, every human body everywhere, unless there’s a dictator… even then, someone will criticize their government and probably pay dearly for it.

[@GentlemanJack705]

The Israeli government hasn't been called out enough by its own people. Thats part of the problem.

[@temps25]

@@claireconover the biased part is that the blame is put squarely only on the Israeli government, despite other state entities, especially iran, are deeply involved in this conflict

[@temps25]

@@GentlemanJack705 sure, but if you make a material about the problems in that country, why not highlight how other countries, especially iran, support the very problems acknowledged that affect even the speaker - bombings inside israel against israeli, and oppression of israeli outside israel.

[@valdomero738]

This is a controlled psyop.

[@az55544]

You're not Israeli, you're a tourist. You have no idea.

[@stoneneils]

Yah like how gentiles thinks they can speak for us Jews. You have no idea.

[@temps25]

she pays lip service to israelis being bombed inside israel, and being oppressed outside israel. but no assignment of blame there, to outside forces, including those in US

[@az55544]

@@stoneneils big assumption