How Biden’s Middle East Policy Fell Apart

[@aquababy2012]

Worst. Ally. Ever.

[@adtastic1533]

Why? Because they refuse to bend over for American domestic concerns?

[@paulheydarian1281]

It's okay! The hard earned money of millions of American tax payers will bail them out!

[@mns8732]

Vote Blue for another 4 years of taking it really really deep.

[@DogeickBateman]

Smartest Demonrat

[@avengemybreath3084]

I love when it becomes “safe” for the NYT to finally tell the truth. Always at least a couple months too late (frequently more like 2 years), and long after everyone outside the blue media bubble already knew it.

[@yoshiki7757]

What are you trying to say? Like did you not listen to what you're commenting on? This is based on reporting going back over a years. Trying to call the NYT a "blue media bubble" is ridiculous, just because it's not actual propaganda like Fox or Newsmax and it gets criticized probably more from the left than the right and you just provided crystal clear reasoning why. You don't read the articles in the first place. Just the fact the NYT Pitchbot is a thing should make it clear someone trying to call the NYT some kind of blue media bubble quite literally lives in an alternate reality.

[@17thsavior]

From the intro I got the feeling Ezra went into the interview expecting one thing, and found the guest just softballing the catastrophic mistakes of the Biden Admin in this entire clusterfk and playing defense for the admin. I'm sure access is a hell of a drug for journos.

[@jamesphelps1958]

He expected the guest to be honest about what a terrible partner Bibi is and how he’s the root of Oct 7th and other failings in the region.

[@reimaida6679]

Thank you for articulating what I can't.

[@squamish4244]

@@jamesphelps1958 Biden has called Bibi an asshole privately many times, but it means little unless he says it publicly.

[@LEEboneisDaMan]

They valued a relationship with a pariah state more than human lives.

[@KhanFamilyTTGH]

Nothing fell apart. It just went according to Netenyahu’s plan. Why spin it any other way?

[@epicdogedoge725]

It fell apart for Biden it’s in the title

[@adtastic1533]

Must be great to have competent leadership in charge of your country

[@MrBl3ki]

@@epicdogedoge725 nope, Biden and his chewish admin were on board from the start. You are confusing PR with actual goals.

[@Sh-iz2mw]

This was more of a Biden-led genocide than Netanyahu.

[@gempursuharto]

No one discussed the cost of winning a war and how much it takes a toll on humanity

[@Agtsmirnoff]

Hard to consider people that support Hamas as humans

[@gempursuharto]

@@Agtsmirnoff Hard to consider people that supports any kind of aggression toward innocent women and children as humans regardless the label you choose to put on them

[@Ultraviolet516]

@@Agtsmirnoff says a hasbara nazi

[@Ultraviolet516]

@@Agtsmirnoff hasbara bs

[@DogeickBateman]

@@gempursuharto Hard to consider Democrats as human

[@LEEboneisDaMan]

All excuses. All best of intentions. Meanwhile thousands of innocent people die. Typical American foreign policy.

[@Ninoblack88]

The idea that israel would accept any peace deal that gave Palestinians any rights or anything that can be called a state is fantastical

[@EarlyRiser71]

As long as they side with terrorists, you are correct.

[@jimmyjustintime3030]

which is how we got into this mess in the first place

[@jon9625]

Wrong. Israel made a number of historical offers for a.palestinian state and palestinians did not accept- ask Bill Clinton, not to mention Israel's acceptance of the UN partition plan and palestinian rejection. But, enjoy the echo chamber

[@Bertinator-nm9ld]

My big fear is that the idea that ANY of the 4 major middle eastern regimes involved in this conflict (Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran) seriously want peace, might be equally fantastical. In which case, we're probably in for a long slog

[@jebbo-c1l]

which is why they must be forced by the world to accept it. This means stopping US military and economic aid until it happens

[@arbulua]

Biased as most of the NYT’s reporting on this matter. The fact that you present bringing back the hostages as a failed US objective but not of Israel alone speaks volume

[@jamesphelps1958]

It’s an opinion column! What do you mean biased?

[@thewkovacs316]

blame the victims?

[@staylajannik]

Why should it not be an US objective?

[@isuckatguitarbut]

Based on this interview there are two explanations, either the US has no influence and is just getting pushed around by Israel, or the US is largely fine with this outcome and their priorities are largely aligned even if that is not what they're saying in public. Which is fitting given that that seems to be a theme with this conflict. Everyone pays lip service to the Palestinian issue and then does nothing about it and if they do do something it's counter productive and that quite frankly includes many Palestinian organizations.

[@17thsavior]

"Anatomy of a failure", yet every word out of the guest's mouth seems like soft justification.

[@Makerx2011]

Agree

[@dvdv8197]

@@17thsavior well said

[@natedogg890]

They're trying to cope haha

[@dianehoekstra6880]

It is gut churning. They can't call it what it is. Genocide.

[@eden5260]

​@@natedogg890who are" they"?

[@dvdv8197]

This past YEAR once again confirms it, and the quote has to be updated: To quote Michael Brooks: "It’s not a complex issue. That’s the big thing. It’s super simple. There’s one group that has enormous power. It’s the most powerful country in the Middle East. It’s backed by the United States. It acts on MULTIPLE other populations of people with total impunity and it’s never held accountable for anything." R.I.P.

[@greywolf845]

Rest in Peace, Micheal Brooks

[@Bertinator-nm9ld]

Why do you speak as if Israel's enemies would be interested in peace, even if Israel was willing to go that route? They're not. None of the leadership on either side of that conflict is interested in peace. They probably all have to go before Israel/Palestine ever has any chance for peace

[@eden5260]

Just an ignorant message American keeping their ignorance is no suprise

[@frostedwest625]

"It’s not a complex issue" so actually it is

[@adtastic1533]

LOL! That was dumb AF.

[@Danxethenightaway]

And this even might cost Harris the election. A Clinton / Trump 2016 can still happen based on Middle East politics. Insanity

[@Psyc0ps]

US foreign policy is not valuing Muslim lives in any meaningful fashion

[@natedogg890]

It's not just Muslims lives, America doesn't value life period. Not even their own citizens, not even the lives of children. How else can you explain the casual violence they've caused at home and abroad?

[@s13rr4buf3]

I agree, although I'm sure you were referring to Palestinians. If we valued Muslim lives, we would not have withdrawn from Afghanistan. Look what has happened there since. Muslim women are literally kept as slaves or animals to be bred. Americans don't care about them.

[@DaKoopaKing]

Why did Biden pressure Netanyahu not to invade Rafah? Too many Christians there or something?

[@fahd6757]

I have never heard more privileged, entitled people discuss this genocide. “Tony blinken was effected by the war because his wife’s car was splattered with paint”

[@DelsinM]

The elephant in the room: AIPAC

[@DaKoopaKing]

In 2024, Qatar has so far spent $2,969,224 on US politics. AIPAC has spent $1,624,425. It takes amazing innumeracy or echo chamber conspiracy theorizing to think AIPAC plays any significant role in American politics.

[@DelsinM]

@@DaKoopaKing This is patently false, and I suspect you know at. AIPAC spent nearly $20M for George Latimer to defeat Jamaal Bowman in one PRIMARY in one congressional district in NY. You do the math from there...

[@noneofyourbuisness9403]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@DaKoopaKingnot quite… it’s actually 41 million dollars according to open secrets, you just took the amount they spent on lobbying, not donations as a whole. Source is open secrets btw. Also for lobbying, aipac is in the top twenty for spending so saying they’re irrelevant is false.

[@Ultraviolet516]

@@DaKoopaKing nice hasbara bot...lie your birth right i guess

[@Ultraviolet516]

@@DaKoopaKing thats what cristian zonist teach in school

[@dvdv8197]

Nothing justified October 7th, yet October 7th justifies everything... 😓😤

[@danielasher6326]

❤

[@evamurray2564]

Blame hamas who cynically use their own people as human shields by storing ordinance, etc, in schools, universities, homes, mosques, and hide in tunnels under most of the civilian infrastructure.

[@greywolf845]

❤️

[@PorqueNoLosDos]

So 107=911

[@Bertinator-nm9ld]

There are no good guys, in this conflict. The leaders of Israel, the leaders of Hamas, the leaders of Hezbollah, the leaders of Iran. None of them want peace. Even if the US were more willing to lean into its soft political power, I doubt it would make much difference. The US can't be the only actor in all of this who wants peace, and expect peace to happen. It just doesn't work.

[@teoengchin]

Strange how they discussed the failure of US ME policy for 2hours without any substantive examination of the influence of the Israel Lobby

[@Bertinator-nm9ld]

What specific actions, from the Israel lobby, would you have liked to see them talk about, in regards to the current conflict? What, specifically, have they done to shape US foreign policy on this one?

[@crypticlolita]

Also why didn't they cover Israel's Hannibal directive?

[@teoengchin]

@@Bertinator-nm9ld do you think the lobby has no influence, a little influence, or a lot of influence?

[@Bertinator-nm9ld]

@@teoengchin I think that I prefer details to speculation.... Which is why I asked you for details! Do you not have any? I am agnostic on this speculation. You could totally convince me that you are correct, if you offer up a few details. I'm happy to verify them myself, once I have an idea of the case that you're making

[@julkiewitz]

@@Bertinator-nm9ld The point is Biden doesn't even need any lobby, he's just naive and ultrazionist of his own accord. He doesn't need any extra convincing.

[@reimaida6679]

Bait and Switch, who wrote this headline? Two informed commentators making excuses for genocide.

[@claudelebel49]

Unconditional support for Netanyahu, and the racist apartheid state of Israel Some policy 👎👎👎

[@jenniferwagner4595]

The question from a US perspective is, what are we getting from Isreal for our money and exercise of power? I am very much in favor of dropping any aid to Isreal. I am not opposed to selling them weapons....but i feel the same on the other side of the fence for the Palestinians. I wouldn't be opposed to full trade embargo to both sides as well.

[@natedogg890]

They never talk about this, but a lot of Israel's support in America comes down to extreme religious Jewish and Christian lobby groups. Israel is essentially run by a religious zealot faction now and they are trying to recreate Israel's borders and laws along ancient biblical lines. I know this sounds insane, but do some research and the agenda is actually very out in the open

[@eden5260]

So you think selling arms to the Palestinian terrorist is fine . 😅

[@adtastic1533]

You're keeping Chinese and Iranian influence out of the region with the world's biggest energy supply.

[@PanthaIassic]

​@@adtastic1533 except Israel's war has led to the expansion of Iranian influence as they're the only ones standing up to what's perceived by the region as a genocide and occupation

[@t.c.s.7724]

The propaganda is strong on this one. Pity

[@MuchkinCat-yk9in]

1:13:08 "Tony Blinkin was suffering personally... all sorts of terrible thing being chanted about him, he was feeling the war personally at home." All you need to know about this shill.

[@americanexistentialist4756]

Biden is as much of a realist as Trump is a truth-teller.

[@freekfaro5606]

Biden is a zionist, a supporter of ethnic cleansing, and willfully complicit in war crimes and genocide.

[@onomatopoeia162003]

@@freekfaro5606 it's everyone's fault. Since nothing gotten done post the 67 boarders.

[@freekfaro5606]

@@onomatopoeia162003 America has the influence, the leverage. Biden even threatened the ICJ, that's how he uses leverage. It all just exposes American values to the rest of the world.

[@isuckatguitarbut]

Realism used in this context is a brand of foreign policy and Biden is almost certainly a realist. Realism views world politics as a competition between self interested states vying for power and focuses on the conflictual nature of global politics. It essentially says states will use strategic military force to advance national interests and ensure security. Realism is also notable in that it argues states operate in an arena where ethical considerations and justice are not considered to be particularly relevant and should not necessarily be a factor in how states operate.

[@freekfaro5606]

@@isuckatguitarbut America was one of the founders of the global legal order after ww2. That includes the Geneva convention. So you're saying it's part of Bidens 'realpolitik' to completely ignore international law. Next, if anyone believes that Bidens realpolitik in the middle east is on America's interest, they're delusional.

[@jacobjorgenson9285]

The Palestinians have seen 50 oct7th

[@dvdv8197]

And prior to it a whole lot more. Sigh.

[@ropeburnsrussell]

Only since Oct. 7 I wonder if there is a connection.

[@dvdv8197]

​@@ropeburnsrussell oh so ignorant or disingenuous. Either way, it's a bad look. Do your research instead of accepting the hasbara.

[@evamurray2564]

​@dvdv8197 you do your research instead of relying on terrorist's propaganda. Fun fact. The grand mufti of Jerusalem and many arabs from the British Mandate of Palestine worked with the nazis as they shared a common dream.

[@evamurray2564]

​@@dvdv8197fact. The grand mufti of Jerusalem and many of his followers worked with the nazis as they shared a common dream.

[@eileenread5068]

Thank you for this honest assessment of where we are, one year and untold thousands of unnecessary deaths after Oct. 7. The only way I can make sense of what's happening is to remind myself that "Israel" today is not the Israel I know, love, and have visited three times. After 16 years of decline under Netanyahu, it's "Likud Nation," a state with an executive branch run by proud Muslim-haters (note the "from the river to the sea" assertion in the Likud party platform) including an actual terrorist not merely tolerated in the ruling coalition but given a mandate to wage terror on the West Bank. The legislative branch is similarly replete with anti-democratic members in what is supposed to be the best example of democracy in the Middle East. Only the judicial branch is holding the thin line. Speaking of lines, the bottom line for Americans must be that a nation with 7.3 million people of the Jewish religion, and 7.3 people of the Muslim religion cannot survive with one group holding the other in a such a "lesser" state that it invokes comparisons to South Africa and the U.S.'s Jim Crow era. Democracy does not mean theocracy. America must listen to Senators Schumer, van Hollen, and Sanders - and many others - and hold our Middle East junior partner to American standards of behavior; if necessary, we must impose the two-state solution.

[@Bertinator-nm9ld]

I love the idea of a two state solution! But... Who would you install, in charge of Palestine? None of their current leaders are any more interested in peace than Israeli leadership is...

[@evodevo420]

Very thoughtful analysis. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for advocating for what is right and what is just

[@lawrencetchen]

Very well written!

[@eden5260]

Visit Israel and discover how brainwashed you are by the media . Israel didn't change much and over half of the country don't support this government or the prime minister that's what democracy is like . This government will fall soon enough. This government has absolutely nothing to do with the decision that we're taken in the war or with the fact there aren't two states solution It's a fantasy westerners are stuck on for decades having no clue what they are talking about.

[@MuiltiLightRider]

Israel should be held to a much higher standard but you cannot impose a two-state solution. That is the WORST idea possible and is the exact kind of paternalist mindset that led to the horrible mistakes of the imperial age and even more recently with the attempt to impose western liberal democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan. Apartheid was not ended through imposition, it was through a mix of incentives and punishments that eventually led the white South Africans to come to the negotiating table. Same thing with the Northern Ireland Conflict, or Jim Crow, or the Soviet Occupation of Eastern and Central Europe. Israel and a Palestinian State will have to live side-by-side so the only way this can end is through a negotiated solution between both sides, NOT imposition

[@mikekelly4702]

United states of israel.

[@jon9625]

Welcome to the echo chamber, where your own voice is pleasing

[@Makerx2011]

Ezra, I have enjoyed listening to you over the years and have found your reporting thoughtful and balanced. However, I cant help but notice that recently your discussions regarding “the Palestinian issue” seem unnecessarily paternalistic. Also your choice of guests and the narratives they highlight appear to have an obvious bias. Your audience is smart. Do better.

[@isuckatguitarbut]

I think this is the most hostile I have heard him in an interview. He definitely had an angle and the guest wasn't saying what he wanted him to say so he just kept pushing for the answer he wanted.

[@iamyoda66]

Ezra Klein is right! This is one of the best analysis I have heard on this topic.

[@beng7093]

Ezra how can you mention October 7th and NOT mention the Hannibal directive?

[@eden5260]

It doesn't exist for over a decade .that's why And it has absolutely nothing to do with Oct 7 or civilians You are living in a parallel reality

[@beng7093]

@@eden5260this is not true. It’s been documented it was used on October 7th. Look it up.

[@eden5260]

@@beng7093 ok expert . Document my arse You read some ignorant newspapers article and you think it's a fact . Again you don't even know what the directive is/was And you definitely don't know" it was used " It doesn't exist in the army so how can it be used .

[@Nicolas-uu3jr]

maybe do a podcast on how the media failed the people, include yourself 😉

[@bubblebobble9654]

The biggest failure in setting US foreign policy towards Israel is repeated weekly as a BKM in the Dtate Department briefings. "We don't negotiate in public" Garbage. Dogmatic nonsense. This is a 19th and 20th century BKM which doesn't apply today to this situation. Great, you guys learned the lessons of history. Now please forget them entirely and figure out a new path. Set up the discussions in public. Have some arguments. Get the public input, from all parties on the global stage. Then, with this discussion as framework, go back to the drawing board without the gas lighting, without the pretense. And then, hammer out the details once the basic underlayment for a2 state solution is fixed. There is no other way. The discussion from high level officials, the entry into negotiations, needs to be in public. Settlers out of the West Bank. Gone. Forever. PLA reform as a condition with US and Arab military and economic support for them. Let's get it done folks!

[@dvdv8197]

Overall good, very interesting and much-needed conversation. Can't agree on everything and can't be right about everything. Thank you.

[@rnangel69]

Thank you for this conversation.

[@reuvenpolonskiy2544]

There will be a deal with the Saudis and without a Palestinian state

[@chrisrutledge9330]

So true. No Arab state will trade real international chess pieces in order to help the Palestinian cause.

[@KickeroTheHero]

I *might* buy we were surprised, but we already know israel had knowledge of plans for the attack.

[@Bertinator-nm9ld]

Countries get Intel on dozens of attacks per week. Probably even dozens of attacks per day. That's not the big challenge. The big challenge is how to determine which of the many threats you hear about are credible. It's cliche, but hindsight really is 20/20

[@eden5260]

You don't know much about how intelligence works

[@KickeroTheHero]

@eden5260 Are you sure? :) I'm pretty sure the times itself has an article about it. Incompetence doesn't cover that lie.

[@eden5260]

@@KickeroTheHero wow the times I am soo impressed They must have vast experience in the intelligence forces

[@KickeroTheHero]

@eden5260 My guy, the only reason I mentioned that is because this is a Times video. How does it work? You tell me-- you're clearly very knowledgeable.

[@snoopy_peanuts_77]

Well when your policy is "Let the Israelis do whatever they want and gaslight the rest of us about it" what exactly were you expecting?

[@nancinyols8015]

Wow. Your guest's telling would make a great movie script one day. However, as he has yet to sight any of his actual sources and obviously wasn't in the room... this is hasbarah, ie b.s.

[@thomasdequincey5811]

I don't think this is about anything other than letting Kamala off the hook for the failures of the administration. Bar that, it was kind of pointless.

[@meatrealwishes]

Cheney’s activities in Iraq and Afghanistan have drastically lowered the power of all next vice presidents. That’s why, even biden looked missing under obama admin. the guy was passionately interested in getting out of Afghanistan. But he was limited to convincing obama to do that. Pence had similar thing going. He fully accepted the danger of covid and took precaution. Yet he never corrected trump and his fatal policies.

[@TheHabeng29]

The framing is horrible

[@11174071]

Sullivan and its de-escalation is just a meme, it is a comic character.

[@rachelebgi]

excellent and informative. There is obviously so much nuance to this complicated and difficult situation. Always appreciate your guests and interview style 👏👏👏

[@inzhener2007]

Music is always good here 🎶🎵🎶

[@DrVictorVasconcelos]

What is that hate symbol behind Biden?

[@eden5260]

We found the antisemite

[@leonidkrimsky954]

A counter-terrorist pinpoint operations after 10/07???? Did any sensible security person say to you it was even poosobke?

[@riseandfall...]

We are lead by idiots and lies…great country

[@alanflood8908]

The maddest Arabs ever are the Jews ❤❤❤❤ ffs

[@keqinyangmuseum6183]

America didn't fail. President Joe didn't fail. Political formula

[@hectorestrada3764]

Your getting everything I have for specialty heads

[@JimArdal]

As always, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is portrayed as having begun on October 7th, missing all important motivating context, including the conflict at Al-Aqsa Mosque in 2023.

[@abdullahkhan300]

Franklin Foer, Ezra Klein any book recommendation that presents the Palestinian side?

[@eden5260]

You can read plenty of nonsense propoganda. Or you can read The Qur'an

[@louisegordon5169]

@@eden5260some (most of the world) would say otherwise regarding nonsense

[@Tdp12345]

Read Norman Finkelstein

[@asabry4126]

This Foer guy is wondering wait I thought I was here to do apologia

[@DelsinM]

middle path???

[@nromk]

There's no middle path anymore

[@professorfoxtrot]

Trump 2024

[@thewkovacs316]

kahane chai

[@markkarake612]

What one sided garbage.

[@Carutsu]

He's an idiot

[@johnd2058]

22:30

[@juliethakopian9296]

Wrong analysis all the way!

[@Dara-wk5ty]

Clownery for 1h and 30 minutes Saved you your time

[@shoshanakirya-ziraba8216]

Tweedling his thumbs instead of making progress on the Abraham Accords was the first problem.

[@llamaliammm]

bruh im sryy but 20 mins in and theyve not sunk into any meat of the whole issue its literally just rambling speculation that is not calculated. disappointing waste of time

[@Dusibello]

Calling the Hamas terrorists and murderers "fighters" sounds so wrong..

[@AG-gr4fm]

Yep. That’s our own Jewish liberals.

[@WizzKidxKOx]

Why make a podcast if you just want to say genocide is bad. Did Hamas or Hezbollah say they wanted to negotiate? Didn't think so.

[@WizzKidxKOx]

You have to watch 57 minutes of Israel and US bashing to get to "well actually Hamas is a difficult negotiating partner." Wait so you're saying the mass starving bombed out husk of a prison camp that are all innocent won't negotiate? Huh? The militant to civilian casualty ratio is in line with other wars? I thought Israel was the bad guy... Oh wait.

[@markg3169]

Appreciate their analysis but it betrays a fundamental precept that their main goal is Palestinian well being and statehood. Fine: however advocating for a people who will not advocate take responsibility for their well being is a losing endeavor. Where does the American people factor into this? Palestian statehood will benefit the US as much as Haitian or Lebanese statehood does. So not very much.

[@johnmcneil9164]

The US bears great responsibility for degrading the Haitian state over the last 100 years or so.

[@PanthaIassic]

- It would be beneficial to the U.S. because then much of the ME would not hate America as much as they do right now. - Those advocating for Palestinian statehood are doing so because the current situation--- Israel controlling the Palestinian population yet refusing to grant them basic rights or a say in governance--- is untenable and has been described as apartheid by most of the world.

[@AG-gr4fm]

Ezra, you say “We wanted to have peace”, We wanted to bring hostages home”, … and that’s true. My mom and my sister in Israel didn’t skip one protest against Netanyahu. But. The peace you’re describing is just a camouflage of a larger issue. What about the mazes of thousands of deadly tunnels full of weapons, missiles, rocket launchers and piles of Russia-made arms? How you can even talk about peace as the “peace” would have been only temporary until all these arms started being used against Israel. This is an existential war. Either “them” or “us”. It hurts my heart hearing about your “peace talks”, to the point that I can’t finish listening.

[@lutherblissett9070]

So Israel can have subs and nukes and missile defence and US support, and the Palestinians can't even have tunnels? Despite them being under an illegal and inhumane blockade they are not allowed to even smuggle in some extra food?

[@stevejacover4874]

Ezra cool your buns boy!!!!