I'm DONE with Webflow

A question I get asked a lot is "Do I still make Webflow videos" and here is your answer....
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00:00 - Intro
00:27 - Why I Like Webflow
01:05 - Design is only half the story (Webflow & Code)
02:05 - Webflow (The Problem)
04:33 - Where I have moved to
05:33 - Summary
06:44 - Outro (35% off Pinegrow)
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#FullStackAgency #Webflow #Pinegrow

[@webflowandcode]

Stats on blindness and visual implement taken from World Health Organisation website: www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/blindness-and-visual-impairment

[@Keithen]

So you left Webflow cause you got sponsored by a poorly designed mock startup. 👍 thanks. I’ll be sticking with Webflow.

[@webflowandcode]

Bore

[@TheMarouuu]

So if i’m surfing the web on my tv in a room with 7 other people, 2 are blind? And only pinegrow can set this right? You are such a superhero dude! Definitely not guilt tripping people in using your non affiliate link that’s 35% off.

[@dusandjordjevic701]

😂😂😂💣

[@sanjaybhatikar]

I had started with Webflow and struggled with CSS grid. I was using Webflow to implement layouts inspired by Jen Simmons' KZbin channel on web design. Ultimately, I found it far easier to code magazine-style layouts in plain HTML and CSS. Webflow has awesome marketing videos and it is probably a good product, but I decided plain HTML and CSS worked best in my case. I don't think I will be going back to Webflow. Thank you.

[@trinityyyyyyy]

Question! How do you secure any website? Webflow is secure, but if I didnt use it, how do I make sure a website I coded or a developer coded is secure, does the developer take care of it for me? It seems so complex!

[@webflowandcode]

Depends what you mean by “secure”. Assuming it’s related to things like memberstack etc? It’s normally done by building a backend API and a login auth system. I’m not sure who you are but I’d say this would definitely be a dev job. There are ways to be more secure on the front end but this is not normally something a Webflow designer knows about to implement safely and correctly.

[@geezergeek7375]

Good info. Good to see compelling arguments presented honestly. Knowledge with experience makes a big difference.

[@webflowandcode]

Thank you. I try to be objective and enjoy all aspects of software so that I can give a balanced opinion on this stuff. I wish more would be less dogmatic about Webflow. It’s just one tool in the belt!

[@diegoriveira3579]

I will continued using webflow since so far it’s the best I’ve seen for my needs right now and I didn’t reach the ceiling that would limit me yet. BUT, defiently thank you for you perspective 🎉

[@webflowandcode]

And that’s all I can ask for. Good luck!

[@clarkcant]

This screams "sponsored", though you may know disclaimer to that effect. And if this was sponsored, that you're only reason to use them could be " the other product isn't up to par with accessibility" is absolutely mind-blowing and a great indication to users who saw your title and for a second got nervous about Webflow.

[@webflowandcode]

Thanks (I think). No sponsor though and not the only reason I quit (see part 2).

[@TomHerriman]

Interesting. I just watched the frustration you experienced during your first use of Pinegrow. You mention that discount enough to sound like a salesman. How much do they pay you to put up with that frustration?

[@webflowandcode]

Is this a serious question? I make tutorials and videos to help and entertain my community. Unfortunately, I get paid zilch for it.

[@EmilyOen]

Since I am a website and app developer, do I still like best to make/develop websites from scratch. You have full control over the website and can have all the functionality etc. you need.

[@webflowandcode]

It’s definitely more interesting. I like mixing and making the most out of both worlds where I can

[@devilman6326]

Pinegrow is annoying to use, when i fullscreen a panel and alt+tab and go back to it the panel is no longer fullscreen. I don't like their UI i wish it's simpler like webflow or grapejs. Tbh it looks like it's faster to code with vscode after a month of practice than using a no-code tool.

[@webflowandcode]

Just takes time. If there are bugs, you should report it! I personally like the UI. Webflow as a tool is very restricted hence why they can get away with a simpler UI.

[@thetruthwillnevergovoided4344]

Everything is about perspective. Just because webflow didn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work well for others. When it comes to developing websites , it depends on what you want to do and what works best for you as a website developer. What development is pretty much what you make it, Doesn't matter what click for me you use. But for me , webflow is the way and you can make a ton of money with it , but it all depends on you.

[@webflowandcode]

Exactly. This is my opinion. Take it or leave it

[@thetruthwillnevergovoided4344]

My question for you is. If webflow is not the platform, then what platform should most of us developers should use?

[@webflowandcode]

I can’t answer that for you

[@thetruthwillnevergovoided4344]

@@webflowandcode Of course you can't smh.

[@webflowandcode]

You asked the question. I don’t know what you expected

[@A5tr0101]

I really like the designs web flow puts together but when a designer goes too far an leaves unimplemented features like forms, that can really make a developers life a bit of a nightmare...

[@webflowandcode]

Are you referring to a separate designer coming into a Webflow project and “cleaning” up?

[@vladimirrumyantsev7445]

Hello, is there any community where I could ask for details of using it? For example how to add video as background or how to deal with svg to put my own picture instead? Thank you

[@webflowandcode]

For Pinegrow? forum.pinegrow.com

[@mannylopez1165]

HI Samuel, I am a beginner in web design. I notice webflow have some restrictions. I have over a hundred products to sell on my website. Can I sell over a hundred products in the webflow platform? Thanks in advance!

[@webflowandcode]

I’m not really the right person to ask. I do believe there’s a limit on how many products you can have in a store. For this, contact Webflow sales. If that’s not enough, there are store alternatives that you can use with Webflow. The general consensus though is that Webflow e-commerce is immature and you’re better off going with Shopify.

[@mannylopez1165]

@@webflowandcode Thanks Samuel, what do think about Elementor Cloud?

[@webflowandcode]

I’ve not looked into that either unfortunately

[@wt1272]

This is a pretty disappointing video. I understand better accessibility, but c'mon. This video has absolutely no ... *sigh* c'mon

[@webflowandcode]

Not quite sure what you’re even saying here. Happy to take feedback but only when it’s articulated well.

[@craigcurtain5029]

I've got a question that's a little off-topic. What would you need to see in their portfolio if you were hiring a junior web developer? how many sites would the web dev need in his portfolio? Also, this is a great channel just subscribed!

[@webflowandcode]

Thanks Craig! Glad to have you on board. I just need to see 1 website you’re proud of and that demonstrates your best code. Then I would ask you questions on why you chose certain HTML elements, I’d look at some of your CSS and then walk through some JavaScript with you. This is judging pure technical ability. Obviously attitude and passion play a huge role as a junior because if you’re anything like me you’d fail miserably at the above questions. if you activity participate or engage in the “scene” is always 👌. Hope this helps.

[@ziggerwebdesign1704]

Seems a very specific and somewhat niche reason for not using Webflow. Every system has its pros and cons and that's the oddest I've heard.

[@webflowandcode]

I re-watched this episode today for reasons so this is fresh on my mind. I disagree. All I'll say is accessibility has been the cornerstone of the web for the longest time and I think Webflow and its community do not have a grasp of how importance accessibility is. It's not odd for the 'rest' of the industry, only Webflow users.

[@ziggerwebdesign1704]

@@webflowandcode Of course accessibility is important, but as he's still using Webflow I think I've made my point.

[@teewhite7061]

Ah man Sam please give us a Pinegrow course. I tried to use it but the interface was a bit overwhelming. Also what would be the solution to a CMS if I were to move away from Webflow?

[@poppingjaz]

He has one from 6 months ago. Go to his YT homepage

[@webflowandcode]

As @funkywaffle says I have a few live coding sessions where I go through basics in the interface. I agree there could be a more streamlined version so maybe I can start to build on this newfound interest in Pinegrow. A CMS I’ve used is Netlify CMS which uses Jekyll as a site builder. Not the nicest of solutions and I’m still trying to figure that out before I settle on a CMS route.

[@samhoang995]

That’s a pretty lame reason dude.

[@webflowandcode]

How so? Is accessibility not important to you?

[@georgy.design]

@@webflowandcode it is important, but it might be your niche, hence you’re so eager to switch. That being said, accessibility in web affects like 5-7% of people? We cannot focus on every person, every disability, every case - it will cost a lot to businesses right now. That being said, Webflow does offer accessibility features, they are committed to it - sure, not everything is possible right now, but is it a problem? How many no-code tools offer such functionality in a simple to implement way? I know just Webflow. Does Pinegrow allow users to do it in a similar easy fashion? I’m not sure since it might require HTML/CSS/JS skills. My point is that if creating sites with accessibility is your niche, then, sure go for it - Webflow might not be your tool of choice. But for lots of people it is because it is clean, polished, and overall a great tool with amazing community. Not perfect for any cases and it is fine since you won’t use a hammer to cook soup. P.S: Can you backup your statement about “2 billion people with disabilities (that is related to the web)” by providing any source? Sounds like a huge and bold overstatement.

[@webflowandcode]

Georgy- this is such a toxic perspective to have. In the 20+ years I’ve been hand-building websites accessibility has been the cornerstone to the successful web experience you have today. Maybe not the JavaScript interactions in the scenario I’ve presented but in general it’s allowed the web to survive as long as it has. Remember, accessibility stretches far beyond interactions. It’s your document structure, UI, copywriting and much more. Accessibility is not 5%-7% of people, it’s everyone! But this idea and these practices just seemed to have escaped the Webflow community and it’s destroying the web. Any well established advocate who’s been building websites for a long time will tell you the importance of accessibility. I can see what you’re saying as my ‘niche’ but accessibility is not a niche. We can’t let this responsibility drop from building websites. Once you know patterns, they take only a short amount of time to implement and in my opinion is a fundamental to even calling yourself a web developer. As I said in my video, Pinegrow allows this. Pinegrow is NOT the tool I’m trying to get people to switch to, I just want to push Webflow as a platform forward and their community to learn how important accessibility is. It’s been a pleasure articulating this to you as you have taken the time to articulate your counter argument well. I appreciate that. Thanks. Source is in a pinned comment.

[@filetmignon9978]

@@webflowandcode By niche I think he means that not every website needs to be "accessible". This also begs the question: Is the definition of accessible different for both of you? To me it sounds like Georgy is referring to blind people, people with other vision impairments, language barriers, etc. These are issues for example creative companies won't have to worry about too much as their clients are unlikely to be people that have those impairments. The points you raised regarding document structure, UI, etc aren't specific to webflow. That comes down to the designer/developer and how they do it. I'd love to hear both of your opinions in terms of what you consider "accessibility". Cuz maybe you both actually agree w each other, but its getting lost in mis-understanding of the word.

[@webflowandcode]

I don’t actually have any evidence to suggest that a significant percentage of my clients use screenreaders but I know that regardless of this, by thinking about accessibility establishes good web development practices ensures the longevity of my site. This video focuses on specifically blind/visually usage of an interactive website but my portfolio of KZbin content describes accessibility as “building websites that are visually, SEO, disabled and any future technology-friendly”. (Websites that can be understood by everyone). I guess I’m trying to rephrase peoples perception that accessibility simply means “the other half of building a website, other than the visual design”, the bit that seems to be completely omitted from a typical Webflow designers development. They often think that they can just design and Webflow “takes care of the rest” but that’s just untrue. Hope this answers your question?

[@YuriRadavchuk]

Honest take, for sure. Thank you! Though, I believe you're being perfectionistic about the tools. There is this principle called right tool for the job, cause you can't do everything whatever tool you get to choose. There will ALWAYS be drawbacks and tradeoffs. There is no gold standard on how to make websites. Yet.

[@webflowandcode]

I'm not quite sure what your point is but maybe knowing that I too live by that standard will help. Thank you for checking out my video!

[@kingmatolo8381]

I'm feeling frustrated with WordPress right now and I'm considering switching to Webflow

[@webflowandcode]

That sucks. Use whatever gets the job done. When you say "Wordpress" do you mean Oxygen/Elementor?

[@KariposTheOne]

Try Bricks

[@notemano6260]

I’m the exact same, Wordpress is doing my head in.

[@kingmatolo8381]

​@@webflowandcodeI've been using Elementor

[@henrylar8958]

Webflow is still in its infancy, accessibility falls onto the designer, not the company

[@webflowandcode]

And hopefully criticism like this will help push the platform forward 🤞. I would disagree that a platform that provides an interactions panel should do it properly. Why should I have to write extra code to make up for its shortcomings?

[@shrimpflea]

Infancy? It was launched in 2013.

[@pablocortes682]

Great video Samuel, I get what you are saying, and I know Webflow is trying to push its users to be more mindful about accessibility, although that is not always the case. My question to you is, should Webflow users, wanting to account for accessibility, stay away from Webflow interactions? and sort of like move towards using GSAP, or in other words use more custom code to replace the native Webflow interactions? I use webflow interactions a lot, but they are never as smooth as GSAP ones, and that brings me to my next question, can a Pinegrow users export the interactions they create that run on GSAP and sort of like paste them into Webflow? Thanks a lot for your content.

[@webflowandcode]

You’re not going to get rid of the JavaScript library that Webflow uses for interactions so you may well use it otherwise if you import GSAP into Webflow you’re loading 2 JavaScript animation libraries so I would just write vanilla JavaScript to add the ARIA roles. It’s worth checking that if you were to avoid Webflow interactions completely, they may be smart enough to not include their interactions library therefore importing GSAP wouldn’t be as big of a deal and then you could just use GSAP. Unfortunately Pinegrow has its own proprietary way to create its GSAP animation’s. You cannot export them although this is a great feature request and I wouldn’t be surprised if this could get integrated sooner rather than later.

[@duhduh4220]

Maybe you have chosen to promote pinegrow and disregarded the power of webflow. Even pinegrow website doesn't look like something made by designers. I know one day you will return at webflow.

[@webflowandcode]

I can say with 100% certainty I will not return to Webflow. I may move from Pinegrow though!

[@emmanuelarnoud]

I don't think Samuel's video is an injunction to use Pinegrow, but an informed opinion that he shares. At the end of the day, if everyone can find what they want in the tool they choose, that's absolutely fine. As for the mocking mention "pinegrow website doesn't look like something made by designers", that's your subjective opinion. We don't know your experience nor have we ever seen your own designs. However, I would say that this remark is perfectly appropriate for 98% of the production of sites created with nocode/lowcode tools and for which the webmasters did not choose to use/customize third party templates sold by talented designers (I obviously include sites created with Webflow). The tool doesn't make the talent and no matter how perfect it is, if the designer is not inspired nor experienced in web development, the result will always be average or even bad.

[@webflowandcode]

Sometimes it's not worth explaining or even entering a discussion, Emmanuel. Clearly this person hasn't seen that I've made over a years worth of Webflow content and so have indeed experienced the 'power of Webflow' and the fact they're using design as an argument shows to me they don't understand why Webflow isn't a viable tool. I'd rather not bother with this one.

[@taariqq]

Beta site seems to be down?

[@webflowandcode]

Old video. We’re now live!

[@taariqq]

@@webflowandcode would you replace the link in description with the new one?

[@iamacoder8331]

lol

[@project.jericho]

Lets just exclude them... It's really not that big of a deal.

[@vladimirrumyantsev7445]

Hello, I'm in doubts which framework to chose? Would you suggest me to go with pinegrow straight away and don't waste my time learning webflow? Thank you

[@webflowandcode]

I think If you intend on relying heavily on interactions that make content appear and disappear (sliders, dialogs, tab systems) anything interactive then you should look elsewhere. Webflow’s own interactive components are accessible so you could rely on them but if you’re building them bespoke, i’d avoid. There are platforms other than Pinegrow but I do like Pinegrow for my needs.

[@thebigbadman04]

@@webflowandcode hi Samuel, out of curiosity, is the GSAP inegration in Pinegrow not good for heavy animations? It is still GSAP right?

[@webflowandcode]

How do you define “heavy animations”? Yes it’s 100% GSAP

[@ertoorule]

@@webflowandcodewhat about teleporthq?

[@HotelSeptember]

@@ertoorule what?

[@neoniquestudio]

Hi there! Just putting it out there: I´m looking for a dev who is specialized in creating a WordPress theme from Webflow (I mean a "real"/native WordPress theme, not e.g. with Udesly). I think Pinegrow gives that possibility. Anybody who has experience in that workflow and is interested in a project, please respond. ;-)

[@webflowandcode]

Pinegrow is capable of building you a native Wordpress theme. A lot more control too!

[@neoniquestudio]

@@webflowandcode Yes, thanks, that is what I am thinking. That´s why I am looking for someone who can create a Webflow Site with Pinegrow in a WordPress theme.

[@garth0079898]

Learn to code! Dont depend on a company, rely on html!

[@jmwloup5110]

what's hate tml? you hate hyper?

[@webflowandcode]

Sorry I don’t understand the question?

[@wh00is007]

@samuel gregory With your honest opinion (not sure if this is a two part answer) 1) What do you think the job outlook is for UX/UI Designer in the next 10 years? Would you tell someone who is trying to switch careers later in life to go after it 2) Same question as previous but for a Web Designer? I'v been in IT for over 15+ years but trying to change careers in a more of creative sense. Any other suggestions you might have? P.S: I suck at coding!😠

[@webflowandcode]

Answered in the Discord!

[@wh00is007]

@@webflowandcode got it, thanks 💪🏽

[@BGdev305]

You are 10000% correct

[@ipsitsaha]

Man don't waste time by making this kind of videos - as a full stack agency owner - go for full coding without using any site builder that's gonna be best - use MERN MEAN etc whatever - have fun. Good luck.

[@webflowandcode]

Who says we don’t already do this?

[@digitalsketchguy7844]

Your website froze & crashed my chrome browser.

[@webflowandcode]

Lucky you! No reason its should do that. It’s progressive but not THAT progressive. Probably something else.

[@digitalsketchguy7844]

@@webflowandcode Visited your site again using latest Firefox. Unresponsive, links don't work. Zilch!

[@webflowandcode]

Thanks for checking but what site are you looking at?

[@howuseehim]

Divs, divs everywhere. 👀

[@jacobwonder6735]

Webflow is TERRIBLE.

[@borabeysarikaya2699]

Your plant is dying

[@webflowandcode]

Mate this video is 6 months old. It’s dead already. Thanks for bring up something painful. Unsubscribed.

[@borabeysarikaya2699]

@@webflowandcode RIP :/

[@AntonyNorthcutt]

Another top serving Sam :)

[@webflowandcode]

Great to see you again!

[@AntonyNorthcutt]

@@webflowandcode I keep finding rocks to live under ha ha!

[@leoleove]

2.2 billion visually impaired people worldwide… haha wtf dude…

[@webflowandcode]

Please check the pinned comment, dude. Besides, what does it matter? Accessibility on the web is a non-issue to you?

[@leoleove]

@@webflowandcode Ok sorry but I am short-sighted and wear contacts, but that doesn't fit with accessibility features in Webflow. Being blind or having protanopia would be a problem though. One of which is already adressed by Webflow. It is an issue, but as it is something that concerns less than 5% of people, it can make sense that corporations spend less time on this subject than pure features or any other product related topic. It makes sense. Plus they are openly commited to work on these problems, they do get better, and have already been addressing many accessibility issues. They could've done more, but they could've done way less.

[@webflowandcode]

Dude. I found a tool that ALREADY ADDRESSES THESE NEEDS so I moved on. I don’t need to wait for Webflow.

[@leoleove]

@@webflowandcode yep, alright, it's fine chill out

[@vapeurdepisse]

Accessibility is blown WAY out of proportion of the web by people who stand to make a buck. There are just not enough blind people or people missing arms to justify the extra work and worry. Building a business is hard enough as it is not to worry about fringe things. And people with glasses aren't blind.

[@PlumbWaterHeaterYELP-Plumbing]

#Americangreed ………….