I'm giving up on Windows

[@EposVox]

I appreciate it, but I’ve already tried basically every optimization suggestion. I’m committed to this, it’s already blown away what my PC could do and is way more stable. I’ll have more videos soon. And cost… my CPU alone has a MSRP of $4000 lol ALSO this video is in 8K and only took 5 minutes to render. My PC literally couldn't render 8K videos at all w/o crashes due to limited 24GB VRAM.

[@AurynGaming]

Sound like a system issue and we have tested many setups for rendering, you can render 8k video on a raspberry pie 3+ without issues - just long redner times, like VERY long. 'Limited 24gb' is again your setup issue, either the software you are using or the settings are limiting you, not the OS. Driver/hardware issues are not windows fault, and you issue is something rarely seen by KZbinrs/Streamers etc, Yes its annoying as hell but blaming the OS it just not the issues sorry. Good luck with however you address it, but as many who say 'I'm going to MAC/Linux', the same people also straight bootcamp windows or even have a seperate windows amchine to get everythign else done.

[@EposVox]

I can assure you you're not doing anything close to what I'm doing in a video edit on a Raspberry Pi lmao.

[@EposVox]

Also replacing the main source of problems and keeping a secondary tool for less mission-critical tasks that tool is good for is… still a solution lmao

[@EposVox]

Also DPC Latency issues come up ALL THE TIME for KZbinrs and streamers. I see them in my and the OBS discord all the time. Lol

[@joeletchell5702]

i had the exact same issue, routing your headset through your wave xlr by any chance? don't

[@FTGTapGod]

I'm sure its a polarizing choice, but I love the 4:3 videos. Outside of the obvious branding/theming reasons for you, I really enjoy being able to watch content vertically on my phone with the comments below. And on my desktop I am able to multitask while retaining full video width.

[@EposVox]

People complain but it does really play nicely on both platforms. I love it.

[@DaniloBesteti]

Great to watch on iPad too

[@8020Alive]

OnePlus pad and it's unique aspect ratio makes this look amazing 🎉

[@SamuelMK_]

This video plays on my boomer monitor without letterboxing. It's amazing to me. When I get one of those newfangled foldable phones I'm sure I'll enjoy the videos as much on there as well.

[@multiflexi]

I hate it. It is nonsense.

[@MattHorton]

I worked on audio software professionally for 2 years and otherwise for much longer, and Windows is always way more of a minefield when it comes to both latency and consistency than either macOS or Linux. Both of those platforms have other issues, but nothing nearly as bad as what our Windows customers dealt with. ChromeOS, though, is the worst.

[@MattHorton]

@@gozutheDJ I mean when you're a company trying to expand your user base, it's a huge one

[@Movie_Games]

My gaming PC (3080Ti) has 1500 latency in LatencyMon. My streaming PC (regular 3080) has almost none. They both have the same exact motherboard and CPU. I don't get it.

[@TechnicalGamingChannel]

I think the thing to note is that Microsoft could solve these sorts of problems and be the front runner when it comes to bang for your buck in professional workloads. Like the average user shouldn't EVER have to know what DPC latency even is, let alone force professionals like you to deal with. That's really the takeaway for me from all this. It's not about who has better hardware or software, who costs less, etc, it's about who provides the experience that doesn't get in your way. I'm a PC user, but I also use my M1 Air as an mobile editing platform and it just works. Yes, Apple have their own quirks, but I can't complain about a laptop that weighs virtually nothing when it goes toe to toe with my 5800XSD, RTX 4080, 32GB of RAM having PC in Resolve... Apple have FINALLY started delivering compelling hardware after years of pushing bargin bin hardware on professionals at an absurd markup. But more than that, they're delivering an experience that gets out of your way and lets you work. So you can fix some issues on PC? Cool. Why should you HAVE to do that just to use the computer? I appreciate being able to fix software bugs as a user, but I fundamentally disagree that being able to fix an issue makes that platform better than one that simply doesn't have the problem to begin with. GG on adding a Mac to your workflow in a way that works for you. Can't wait to reap the benefits as a viewer since it just means more EposVox content.

[@KamaniBrown]

Bro I wish I could like this comment 1,000,000x … I’m tired of back and forth with some people who are dedicated to windows like it’s their God. Yes like you said Apple has their quirks… I mean no piece of tech or company is perfect… but as someone who also straddles both sides of the fence every day, I have seen the light and came to appreciate Apple products. They just work. And I’ve built custom PCs, owned a decent rig of my own and all that, but I got tired of the time I waste fixing and maintaining stuff… I just want to get on my computer, do what I need to do and get on with life… and since I’ve been a part of the Apple ecosystem life has just gotten that much easier and more productive… sure I can’t customize as much, change parts, and tweak stuff anywhere near as much as windows or android, but in just being honest with myself, I just want something that does what I NEED it to do when I need it to do it. I just ordered my own Mac Studio for that very reason… the base model though (mans ain’t rich yet 😅).

[@hxcmo]

Have you ever used the MS support forums? It's 95% full of the wrong answers from Microsoft employed professionals, and other users asking "has anyone solved this yet?". It's so frustrating.

[@DeFrisselle]

@@hxcmo I hate it when those posts come up at the top of a search when looking for a solution or information on an issue for that reason

[@Phynellius]

@@hxcmo I usually use forums with actual tech enthusiasts, at least I tend to get some decent answers

[@tsalVlog]

@@hxcmo To be fair - MS software development documentation is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Apples utter-trash documentation for their frameworks. I say this as someone who has worked on software for Windows, Android, Linux, macOS and iOS. It's like a weird inverse. Apple is good at supporting post-development; MS is good at supporting during development. both suck at the opposite.

[@NycoCubone]

I love how I'm awake at 1 in the morning figuring out about this specific issue and I finally know I'm not crazy

[@knock2one]

windows is a dumpster fire

[@Phynellius]

@@knock2one where as Apple's dumpster fire is just in how they've burnt customers for their own mistakes. Antenna shorts out when you're holding your phone? Sounds like user error to me. Your graphics processor is desoldering itself from the laptop motherboard? Slap a piece of rubber between the case and that cheap to keep it pushed onto the pads. Your keyboard stops working in a short period of time due to bad design? Should have been vacuuming it out twice a day, obviously.

[@knock2one]

i don’t remember asking bro 😱

[@IIlIIlIIlII]

I'm on the complete opposite side, I've had the most stable audio experience on Windows ever since I redid my entire audio setup 3 years ago...I'm talking 0 xruns/crackles/pops. On a mid tier machine (4C8T) btw. Here's my audio chain: Focusrite Scarlett Solo (2nd gen) → ASIO Link Pro → REAPER (DAW/MIXER) ← Studiologic SL Mixface (MIDI Controller) XLR Mic as the Focusrite input Headset as the Focusrite output Focusrite goes into ASIO Link Pro via Focusrite ASIO driver, ASIO Link Pro then creates 16 WDM virtual devices(aka virtual cables) and sends audio from/to Focusrite and virtual WDM devices to REAPER via its own ASIO driver, REAPER then mixes and routes all the audio to its destination and the MIDI controller interacts with the faders and macros in REAPER. This essentially allows me to pick up and route/mix sound from and to my audio interface, other apps (via WDM virtual cables), and ASIO enabled programs all in one program (REAPER) and send it wherever I want and with whichever FX (VSTs etc) I want. It's essentially Voicemeeter on steroids x500. All of this is done at 128 samples (sweet spot for my machine) with a roundtrip latency of less than 8 ms. 0 crackles or pops. Also, since I use OBS for recording purposes, I use the OBS ASIO plugin to route the audio to OBS from Reaper...again, with 0 pops or crackles. For example, I've got my main audio source split into 3 audio groups. ASIO Link Pro brings the audio from my games, browser, Spotify and other programs to REAPER via virtual WDM devices/cables (8 virtual stereo devices) That audio group of 8 devices is then duplicated into 3 different audio groups along with the audio from and to my interface: Me (audio going directly to and from my interface) OBS (audio going to the main OBS I use to record and capture clips with) OBS Twitch (audio going to OBS that I use whenever I want to stream to Twitch) All 3 of those groups have their own 8 audio sources that can be individually adjusted and FX applied to, without affecting the other groups. This allows me to set volumes and FX for each track in each group in REAPER and essentially have infinite control over every aspect of my entire audio setup and for each software/sound source/sound output. I've currently got 56 audio tracks in REAPER being routed in various ways...something you could only dream of doing with VoiceMeeter, GoXLR etc. All of this results in less than 5% of CPU usage on a 4C8T CPU (i7-6700K), so the entire setup is incredibly efficient thanks to REAPER's amazing performance, and that's with VSTs processing the sound from my XLR mic (Denoiser, De-esser, EQ, Compression) in real time. I'd post screenshots but I'm afraid KZbin would probably flag the comment as spam and remove it. I don't get why people get gimmicky hardware like the GoXLR when you could just spend a day or two messing with REAPER and get a setup that's 10000x better and less issue prone. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask. I'd gladly share the knowledge I've accumulated experimenting with this throughout the years.

[@theravenone3439]

Such a strange concept you see crop up in a lot of spaces, the 'as you push the boundaries of what is possible, issues start creeping back into the fundamentals'. Could be an interesting case study.

[@technicolourmyles]

I'm loving the 4:3! Feels like I'm watching the full image from the camera sensor, makes the content feel just really authentic. And of course, nostalgia. I hope more people go down this path in the future!

[@felipeamdd]

And I can watch it on my CRT!

[@CobaltSpace]

I wonder if this is the AMD fTPM issue, which may be fixed with a bios update, or may need to be completely disabled.

[@t3dotgg]

Needed this video in particular for awhile. These issues have plagued me for so long

[@EposVox]

You’re rocking a Mac now, too, right?

[@t3dotgg]

@@EposVox always been on Mac for most of my work but I still use OBS on PC out of convenience

[@WhatAboutZoidberg]

Using the Steam Deck daily and messing around with it, I'm with you. Im goin Linux cus I just want things to work and updates to stop breaking things.

[@EposVox]

Steam Deck is great!

[@IIlIIlIIlII]

Ironically, Desktop Linux is a bigger minefield than Windows.

[@mariozenarju6461]

@@IIlIIlIIlII If you don't build the environment yourself*

[@IIlIIlIIlII]

@@mariozenarju6461 do you build the kernel yourself as well? do you make your entire PC from scratch yourself as well? you know...just to be sure everything works normally.

[@mariozenarju6461]

@@IIlIIlIIlII I actually did, when I had free time. Gentoo taught me everything I need to know. Now I'm just using Kubuntu with different set of optimizations for desktop needs and gaming needs

[@TheMiddleMan890]

love the 4:3 aspect ratio on this one!

[@JarrodsTech]

The most recent Nvidia driver that came out today (July 18th) apparently finally addresses that long standing issue that's been in the changelog as a known problem for ever, though makes it sound like it's only for Ampere (RTX 30)? But yeah your fix is probably better :D I'm a Windows guy but I use a MacBook Air for voice over work, mostly because it has no fans and it sits directly under the mic.

[@debbsplab42]

You warned me and I bought the damn thing anyway -_-

[@pompomandy]

In gaming and video streaming I've had so many problems in the past with Windows 10 mostly, these DPC latency issues are due to a IRQ being taken over by two drivers at the same time, sometimes a reinstall fixes it but I'm all against reinstalling Windows as a "fix", so I go cleaning the system drivers, testing versions, plugging and using different components, BIOS versions and everything. Through my journey fixing it I came to a conclusion (after seeing so many audio forums talking about dpc latency issues) that Windows is the worst, I did fix it for me but it could come back anytime. As many have said already, switching to that Mac Studio is a great choice for the workload you do, can't wait to see the future content you do with it!

[@ninbura]

That 3m Thunderbolt 4 cable is magic. I don't understand how they just blatantly ignore the spec of every USB revision. But I've tested USB 2.0, 3.1, 3.1 gen 2, 3.2 2x2, TB3, & TB4. It never trips over anything.

[@EposVox]

Good to know it wasn’t a terrible purchase haha

[@tsalVlog]

@@EposVox TB3 and TB4 have proven that Apple's "stick to the standards" (when they like the standard anyway) works WAY better than "be flexible to anything close enough to the standards". TB4 has meant that I just need a TB4-capable enclosure and/or hub, and I get max speed out of external PCI-based peripherals, such as m.2 storage.

[@MrGamelover23]

At this point, thunderbolt is literally just max spec USB 4. It's USB 4 that does everything it's capable of, not just some things it's capable of.

[@tsalVlog]

@@MrGamelover23 and TB4 is USB4 with more lanes

[@ninbura]

What I was pointing out is that it bypasses max cable lengths on the USB 3.1 gen 2, 3.2 2x2, TB3, & TB4 specs which vary from 3-6'. Apple has some proprietary chip and crazy good shielding that both maintains a stable connection and tells the host/client that spec is being met. I tried a dozen off-brand USB4 cables from 6-10' in length and they all failed for 3.2 2x2, somehow Apple's works.

[@tristen_grant]

No matter what, I'm always happy to see more videos from you. Hopefully this helps relieve some frustrations from your process.

[@falaxir]

I had an issue with my laptop (g5 5590) where if there was no audio playing for more than 1m, but then audio is playing, i got a delay of 1-2s and a cracking noise then go back to normal. This was so annoying that i played a song in background at 1% volume all the time just to not have this... But I fixed it by going to windows registery and disable manually any power saving on the realtek audio driver. Never had any issue after that.

[@rodrimora]

I’m on vacation and can only see YT videos in my phone. Loved the 4:3 aspect ratio as I prefer to watch videos in portrait mode.

[@acehw7605]

"Moore's Law is Dead" recently did a Broken Silicon episode (not the most recent one, but the one before that) with a DAW engineer who talked about [dpc?] latency problems Edit: DAW engineer, not audio engineer, like he builds and sells computers for audio work kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXmtpmiuqZlmn7M

[@MotoguyX5]

Oooo which episode?!

[@alexvalkyrie.6487]

Nvidias new drivers today released a bug fix for 'Increase in DPC latency observed in Latencymon for Ampere-based GPUs [3952556]' Hopefully this helps.

[@ПётрБ-с2ц]

It surely won't because it was bad before Ampere already.

[@Psychlist1972]

If DPC latency is the concern, try nvidia's studio drivers rather than their gamer drivers.

[@hoffy1003]

Yeah, None of this helped my issues. I have all the newest drivers and the Studio drivers. It's been a nightmare for me. I have been running from, and avoiding this solution for a year. I'm beginning to think I'll just have to bite the bullet, start all over again, learn how to use a MAC, and find a different DAW that won't be torture to learn. I've been using the same DAW for more than 30 years. Ughhh !

[@EthelbertCoyote]

Just a guess but with the change over to chiplets latency has become more of a concern and it's not all CPU based Microsoft has dropped the ball on audio really ever since the change over to most people not running dedicated sound cards. Here are a list of things that may help. 1) dedicated sound card on the PCIe bus sounds silly but external DACs and such have USB issues you can just remove by using PCIe. You would figure your onboard already is using it but I have had much better success with non board sound cards 2) Stange as it may seem turn off system sounds in windows it can cause drop out issues in audio/video software 3) Use Latency Mon to figure out where most of your system interupts are coming from and then use Threadlasso to move those apps to different core affinities (I hate that it has to be this way) 4) If you are one of those people that disables "unused" Windows services, check those services dependancies very carefully as windows does keep those services closed but that DOES NOT keep windows from trying failing and retrying to open those services. 5) Disable Audio on all HDMI sources you possibly can, don't leave them on if you are not using them 6) Know what is daisy chained usb wise in your system and avoid using high polling devices like gamer mice on the same chain as USB Audio equipment. 7) Use if possible the Ultimate power setting, windows just doesn't do efficiency all that well yet and one of the things that will scrap real time services is cores always powering down and moving thteads to different cores for peak efficiency. 8) If your hardware doesn't have it's own ASIO drivers decicated to your hardware reseach and install Asio4All as ASIO bypasses direct sound. 9) again a STUPID thing turn on game mode and run your normal software and see if that fixes the issue. It resolves a few low level real time workflow issues.

[@EposVox]

The pro audio scene is virtually all USB and thunderbolt. PCIe cards for this kind of audio are thousands of dollars, or not really compatible with my kind of workflow

[@EthelbertCoyote]

@@EposVox While he focuses more on music production maybe than what your looking for consider a reach out to @askdrtk here on KZbin for windows audio solutions? Also sorry I don't know the particulars of your workflow and was not trying to suggest something out of budget to you. I have been in video post production as an animator since 1995 so have seen audio engineers do a lot of workarounds.

[@djvidual8288]

Hope this switch will go well for you. I can't imagine the frustration. Weirdly enough I also remember having latency issues with my AM3 System back in the day, so you are pretty on point.

[@EposVox]

Yep my am3 and focusrite 2i2 were my first encounters with it

[@DigitalMoonlight]

I can also confirm that I have seen latency issues on AM3/3+ and LGA 1156 that I didn’t see on AM2+ or LGA 775 before and most of the newer sockets after. Really strange

[@boggledahoggle0815]

I had the same issue UNTIL I deactivated fTPM 2.0 in the bios... it's buggy on my board.

[@AshtonCoolman]

Disabling the USB Selective Suspend setting in Windows 11 made a huge difference on my 7700x+4090 system on an ASUS X670E Crosshair Hero motherboard. Disabling C1 state and other power saving features makes DPC issues disappear on both Intel and AMD Windows systems.

[@EposVox]

Tried both

[@AshtonCoolman]

@@EposVox and to your point, the only remaining issue I'm having is due to the Nvidia drivers according to LatencyMon. Still, it's improved immensely from the way it behaved before. Of course, for your work flow and job, I understand that you had to go with your Mac solution. For the rest of us, we'll have to live with Windows.

[@ErlWithCheese]

this must be why i never have DPC issues. i optimize for power saving spikes and cleared them all out. my pc runs at one speed. GO!

[@thejasontlewis]

It sounds like too low an IO a buffer size problem, but I believe you when you say it's something deeper. I've only ever heard those pops when recording at 32 samples. And since the M series chips I can record at 32 samples with no hiccups.

[@AGTech]

Really interesting choice! ...but kind of LMAO also. 😅 Nothing against Apple (using an M1 MacBook myself for on the go use), but I would NEVER trade in my main Windows Workstation! The issues you are facing are 99,9% caused by a driver of some kind of stuff you got connected to your PC...running Threadripper myself using Windows 10 Pro for Workstations Edition and all RME for Audio: 0 issues, absolutely rock solid performance! (cant speak for NVIDIA 40 series tho, I still got a 3090 in mine)

[@kyoudaiken]

This is just ONE the reasons why I switched to a 13900KS from a Threadripper 3000... There's a plethora of more reasons by the way. All of it has been resolved by switching to Intel.

[@EposVox]

Yeah I was about to switch to 13900k, but I still couldn’t make some of my other requirements work there.

[@kyoudaiken]

@@EposVox It seems like Apple is just the way to go for content creation. But I don't think it's really Windows alone. I had the same issues on Linux even with a realtime kernel. AMD has some issues with their architecture. Not sure how it is on AM5. Maybe someone can give some input about how AM5 is doing with audio interfaces.

[@kyoudaiken]

Another thing I noticed on AM4, though I don't know if this is related: On my low power PC I use Manjaro Linux, regular 6.4 kernel, up to date, Ryzen 7 5700G, Display via Intel ARC A380 and a Focusrite Scarlett Solo v2 for audio playback. The media player "MPV" had severe drop frames 10-20 seconds after seeking or starting of any video playback. Turns out the issue came from the A/V sync code. Tried multiple different sync algorithms in MPV's config file... After I forced pulse audio to 192000 Hz, the issue was suddenly completely gone. On my bedroom PC which only has a solo 5700G APU in it, playback of audio runs via HDMI with just 48000 Hz sampling rate. So most likely the display and the audio DAC in it use the same quartz crystal, so they are in perfect sync anyway. No issues there. AMD seems to have serious issues when it comes to realtime applications.

[@fistinair]

When is your obs/mic setting for Mac dropping in eagerly waiting

[@djjinoreacts]

Crackling noise is all sleep and power related issues.

[@XeZrunner]

I hope you'll share your experience of using a Mac for your workflow. I myself got a MacBook Air M1 recently and I'm amazed at how much more optimized and efficient it is. Unfortunately, with game development, I have the opposite issue, where Unity in particular is more unstable on macOS (random crashes), but content creation tools such as After Effects run perfectly smoothly in comparison to Windows.

[@tsalVlog]

It's getting there. Unity is dragging its feet, but Unreal and several other engines have all gotten experimental and/or full releases for Apple Silicon, and the performance is amazing. We're gonna see more over the next year or two when Metal 3 hits.

[@XeZrunner]

@@tsalVlog Just imagine the potential in Apple Silicon Macs for running games. Modern AAA titles could run without issues on the Pro MacBooks just fine.

[@EposVox]

Games will run wonderfully once optimized

[@tsalVlog]

@@EposVox I find myself playing No Mans Sky again, but this time at 120+ fps.

[@warin7214]

When I read the title I thought this would be another Linux adventure! I've heard of this issue from reddit posts in the past and I'm sorry to hear that it's plagued you this long. I know how frustrating this problem can be because last year I had my first audio popping issue coming out my motherboard's line out port. I worked around the issue with a cheap apple usb-c dac and then later solved with a realtek audio driver update. I hope this switch goes well for you because with all the things I hate about Windows, there's even more things I hate about MacOS. Please keep us updated! I hope to hear that things work out soon.

[@SimonVideo]

I've really started to hate windows.. just things like the Taskbar crashing/being unresponsive **constantly**. Also love the 4:3 video

[@JPepperL]

You know, I had no idea this was so common. I had a Yamaha MG10XU that I was using to record music and it worked perfectly fine for purposes other than the USB. Once I started trying to record to a new, more than capable, windows machine, I would get those same sounds you showed in the clips in the beginning and I could not fix them. I tried all the obvious stuff (probably not as many things as you tried) but just assumed it was something wrong with the mixer and gave up. I use a focusrite scarlett on a different computer now and don't have any issues (fingers crossed lol) but it's interesting to know that this *could* just be a windows problem in my case as well. Makes me wanna give Apple a shot for music stuff one day. Thanks for the video it was informative and well put together. Good luck with the changes!

[@survivingnetworkingandit2084]

It's not about optimization. It's about choosing the right components for the Windows platform. Many people use HP workstations or other custom solutions in audio production. When costs are the same (Apple vs other) Just depends on what ecosystem you want to deal with (MacOS or Windows). Certain workflows work better on different platforms. ADK Pro audio, Puget Systems, and PC Audio labs all have workstations that are fine tuned out of the box for audio production.

[@EposVox]

And thus, it literally is about optimization. Those are optimized/fine-tuned for that purpose machines, meanwhile historically Macs have always had a far better audio subsystem out of the box. Which is why virtually every music production studio and live DJ will be running a Mac. Also, often the case is that "choosing the right config" to optimize for audio means sacrificing on other things that are crucial to my job. I can't JUST optimize for one or the other.

[@WraithDesignz]

I was wondering why all my recordings were having a poping and clicking problem, and my mic is in perfect condition. it is also happening on other mics too. like wow. Microsoft is just a company that refuses to test anything before they release it.

[@meatbyproducts]

I have been editing professionally in windows since before the first iPhone and never have run into any of these issues. I could never go back to Mac, I just hate the OS everytime I have to use it. I do have a Mac in the house just for testing, I also have Linux in the house and would go to that before I would suffer Mac again.

[@elfamosisimoJON]

Congrats on the switching, the performance per watt in the Mac Studio M2 Ultra is really impressive, are you going to do a more in-depth review? I wonder how good are those HW encoders in OBS compared to Nvidia, Intel, AMD or x264.

[@EposVox]

I sure am

[@stanchan]

OBS has improved on Mac, but not nearly as well as Windows is from a developer support perspective.

[@braethorn]

I've thought about this. A lot. Too scared to leave my comfort zone, despite how uncomfortable it actually is 😅

[@DiabloMonk]

Ryzen 5800 with 6900XT here. I fixed my audio crackling by separating my webcam from my audio interface. I bought a PCI-E USB card and plugged the interface in there. I have never had any crackling since.

[@Polyh3dron]

I honestly didn't know if those latency hits at the beginning were on my end or on the video's end... DAMN YOU WINDOWS. But yeah, Core Audio in macOS seems like absolute magic after dealing with the trash fire that is Windows audio (WDM) and even ASIO.

[@GameRoomHero]

I'm thinking about making a switch myself. Any chance we could get a video on the state of game capture and OBS on Mac? I know especially with elgato stuff many cards just aren't compatible these days so, I'd really like to see what an all-in mac setup would look like for console capture, streaming, and editing specifically.

[@EposVox]

Yep!

[@CommandLineVulpine]

I'm glad I'm not crazy. I've had so much unexplainable "line noise", USB problems, audio totally garbled when I toss it in the editor, and so on since switching to AM4 - despite having very high end specs and good audio equipment. All the advice I'd ever get is "update the drivers" which I do all the time and way more than most people, the problems never go away. I don't think I'll leave Windows, that seems drastic given the giant issues Apple and Linux have. But I think I'll be giving Intel a second chance next time I need a new PC

[@CommandLineVulpine]

Focusrite Scarlet Solo 1 and a dbx 286s PreAmp with a Rode Procaster microphone

[@StefanKamer]

So, just throwing this in here, I have had multiple somewhat complex audiophile setups running on my system over time, and always ran into these audio crackling issues. In my case, it was always related to USB on AMD motherboards. Did an astronomical amount of testing to try to sort it out, but seemingly the only thing that would work was switching to SPDIF on AMD. As soon as I switched to Intel, issues with USB were all gone. 100% gone. Not only was the audio crackling issues gone, but any kind of random USB disconnects, power saving issues, etc, all gone. Interestingly, this wasn't only on one motherboard either. I tried this on 3 different AMD motherboards that I owned, with 2 different CPUs for good measure, and finally, even a business oriented AMD based HP laptop, and all experienced these issues. So something AMD is doing at a kernel level is causing this. My recommendation, just go intel. Of note, Nvidia still has random DPC latency issues of course, but what matters is if it ends up affecting your day to day work, and since switching to Intel CPU, haven't had any issues, even with my same NVidia GPU (3080).

[@mortifyedpenguin]

I know your pain going through troubleshooting and this DPC issue is insane. I have a M2 Pro Mac mini w/ 16 GM I may transfer my work there audio wise.

[@maicovimuto6341]

CAN CONFIRM! I’m a recording studio owner who edits daily videos on Davinci Resolve on windows and Mac. Mac is stable as hell, and every time I switch back to windows I’m just let down again.. Audio pops where they shouldn’t be, in YT playback, recording voice over in Resolve and what not. Tried ev-ery-thing from the book as well. Hate to say it, but Apple is reliable for me and windows just isn’t the last 2-3 years.

[@MechTechRW]

You said you tried everything so this is just me talking about my experiences with the same issues. I had the popping in the recordings. That was solved by downloading itunes for windows and letting OBS find coreaudio drivers. I tried using anything thunderbolt with windows EVEN with an adapter card. It was the worst experience until i used ASIO link PRO. A long dead program that was built extremely well. ASIO Drivers had far less latency than stock windows drivers. When I used ASIO Pro with thunderbolt everything worked. I'm not a fan of too much jank though when I have all of this horsepower. MAC Studios really are amazing for content creation. I think you will be very happy with it.

[@KyleMahaney]

The lack of support for VST's in Resolve on Linux is the only thing keeping a Windows boot drive in my rig. Also not supporting my eucon based color wheel on linux.

[@kostis6]

25 years using only pc’s for music recording/mixing and video work. 1 month ago I bought a used Mac mini m1 just to test it anddddddddd I was blown away!!!!! It almost did what my 2019 super pc did. No heat no noise no nothing. Just ordered my Mac Studio max and already started learning Macintosh plus Logic (which is super efficient and fast) along with my Davinci resolve. I’m a Mac fan boy now :) Cheers

[@haloboy456]

I don't even know how to feel about this video and I'm not even all the way through. But I definitely feel everything about being platform agnostic with the history of Windows being weird Mac OS has that history too but it's just way more simpler to work around and stuff just works. Also I wish I had the money to just have you get a Mac pro I would love an ePost vox review of what works and what does in PCI lane wise

[@haloboy456]

@@sun-eye I can see it. We know the windows content is not going to stop, but from a media workflow perspective it's hard to always go all in on one system I felt this from both ends there were times where I had a Mac laptop as a editing workhorse and Apple replaced themselves apologizing to me. Apple. Yeah sometimes companies go through errors where their products have lingering faults kind of like Intel's four core performance era which still hasn't quite left them. But while the gamer community is not heavy in Mac, and that probably goes for streaming as well, for the editing and video aficionados and a lot of stuff in that regard, Mac is part of an agnostic workflow is definitely a content area that will for sure benefit from this new box in the studio :-) But indeed, interesting times ahead.

[@ShamanicArts]

I think you made the right choice @eposvox , I use both mac and windows as one system, my audio workflow is entirely Mac based, but my streaming and visuals system is windows. Couldn’t imagine running just one OS

[@kharkaroto9486]

Yes Im with you. Windows Audio processing sucks.

[@LloydDunamis]

I always figured there's something definitely wrong with something in our audio, but holy heck, having known this I'm able to sleep more peaceful with 1 less buggy thinking that I'm alone in this regard! Sucks that I won't be able to get off of that problem, even for not being an active streamer.

[@nateklaphake]

The crackling audio in windows is something I have stuggled with to as I have had people tell me that my audio is cracking up when I am talking with them. One way I have fixed that is to go into task manager and manually set the priority of audiodg.exe process to High and also to tell it to use 1 specific core of the processor(Core 32 is my B for my rig). It feels like this problem gets worse on high core count processors with multiple chiplets which explains why you had issues on threadripper and I have had this issue on both my 3950X and 7950x

[@qbxcv]

For the DPC latency issues you've been having, the "Drivers" tab is the most important tab for troubleshooting this. LatencyMon isn't the best way to measure this stuff, but it's decent for a quick glance at problematic drivers. Things such as disabling power saving setting sin BIOS, ultimate performance power plans in Windows, messing around with drivers (not relying on Microsoft stock drivers) and getting a Renesas uPD720202 (ASM3142 might be decent too) PCIE USB card could definitely help a ton, if you got a ton of USB driver issues. But, since you've already jumped ship on Apple (especially considering the fact DaVinci Resolve runs miles better on MacOS), this is of no importance. Excited for the new content coming up! 😀

[@firstpersonlooter]

I'm running an M1 Max Mac Studio and love it. I've been running PowerMac's and Mac Pro's only until this. The smallest computer on my desk, ever. And it's great! Enjoy!

[@TremorBoria]

Super stoked to hear what you have to say about the Mac Studio. Very exciting!

[@NavJack27gaming]

i had these sound issues before and thought it was DPC related and it just turned out that the power in the house i lived in sucked. over time a compressor from the fridge or AC or just something could kick on enough times while my computer is on and my audio will slowly robot out and lose sync. unplug the audio interface and it fixes temporarily. no plug in my house was different. no power supply was different. had the circuit for that room rewired by an electrician with some big amp service on a brand new circuit breaker and it was gone. i later moved and also haven't had it since. not saying it wasn't or isn't ACTUALLY dpc latency for you causing that... i might be saying that the dpc latency could be a red herring with weird things that you'd never think was actually causing it, causing it. gratz on the mac though. been using a m1 mac mini base model since they came out as my main computer on my 4k hdr tv at my couch and its perfect. even with the smallest drive and lowest ram i can still edit in resolve and have tons of tabs open in whatever browser (i use edge). my avermedia usb hdr 4k card works just fine with it. recording audio in OBS used to be impossible but it got better. its a wonderful computer that doesn't make any sound and is just great to have going all night with a queue of transcodes too. too bad that apple is absolutely wrecking macos slowly over time. the ui has been going down hill, their priorities are strange. been beta testing macos also since i got the mac mini lol cuz thats just what i do with computers i get.

[@Headspinner496]

I understand the pain in this issue, this happened to me a couple years ago on windows 10 and it was driving me mad, it went away after about 3 months but came back about a year later, I reinstalled windows, upgraded my motherboard, cpu, psu and even my ram and main boot SSD and it still happened, even in safe mode, and even with my 2070 unplugged and using integrated intel graphics, and one day it just stopped and I haven't had the issue since, hopefully it won't happen again.

[@str8chillaxin]

Have you put the power plan in ultimate mode?

[@TimDillenberger]

Hope it works out for you, nice Mac Studio.

[@Neocrypter]

Yeah I was tired of many thing concerning windows and audio issues, as well as other misc things, I switched to Linux a while back for most everything. getting things working and setting everything up the way i like it took some time but its been a solid experience ever since. To be fair I am sure using a mac is sooo much easier to get going but there is no way i would ever be able to afford one, and I have had much experience with linux over the years server and desktop ive used it off and on for the better part of 25 years for various things. I did have to sacrifice a little as Davinci resolves free version for linux has some code issues, and a couple other pieces of software i use on the regular do not have a Linux version and do not work well under wine but it was easy enough to find replacements for those. as for Resolve for the time being I am using Kdenlive until i can afford to buy the studio version of resolve next year some time.

[@schmittydAU]

I'm glad it's not just me having these issues. I've actually stopped streaming and haven't even bothered starting to record and create videos because of this. It's very infuriating. The Mac Studio and MacBook Pro do support DisplayPort 1.4 via Thunderbolt 4/USB-C.

[@brugvp]

I have the EXACT same issue! I used to produce music for fun in my hackinstosh and had no issues whatsoever. Since going pro as a videomaker, I made a full switch to Windows. That's where problems started. DPC Latency spiking all the time for different reasons, on multiple systems and multiple audio interfaces! Found out the main culprit in my case to be nvidia drivers. Even made a clean install just for audio, but the issue persisted. So after weeks trying to figure it out, I bought a Mac! Still use my windows for gaming and editing (i9 12900k and rtx 3080) but for anything that needs audio production I'll use my Macbook air m1. I do like Windows better than osx, but audio has always been a problem! It's obscene how much better audio drivers are on mac compared to PC...

[@cajuudoido]

For me was the oposite. When I used my 9900k I had pretty high dpc latency. Now with the 5900x the latency is on green range pretty much all the time

[@N0N0111]

Did you see in the technews that AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme (15W) out performs the Core i9-9900K (95W). That is so crazy 15W APU out performs a 95W CPU that is not that old.

[@1wibble230]

Yup same, I'm running 5950x system and can happily run my USB audio interface at just 64 samples latency without any clicking/popping issues whatsoever.

[@inkkrkn]

Maybe try an Intel build? I seem to see a lot of streaming issues coming from AMD stuff. Either GPU or processor, they just seem to be behind the game on fixing issues and driver updates.

[@thatchinaboi1]

I am on Windows 10 and Ryzen 5950x with a Nvidia RTX 2070 using studio drivers. My average DPC latency is around 30ns with spikes up to 100ns on rare occasion. For real time audio processing I make sure I am offline.

[@MassStash]

Daaah you went Crapple? Good luck mate…. Gonna be even more angering lolol

[@noitibmar]

Use the tool that works for the job! I left Windows in favour of Linux a few years ago and am super glad I did. Unfortunately I'm likely going to end up dual booting because as an animator, proprietary software is sometimes required by the job, and even if linux builds exist, they're impossible to run. So, I'm biting my lip and choosing to take whatever path gets things done.

[@EposVox]

Yeah anytime I convince myself I'll find a way to make switching to Linux work, I just end up spending all my time dual-booted back into Windows

[@noitibmar]

@@EposVox It's a shame, but it really does just need the support of proprietary software for any regular people to daily drive it. Hopefully things like the Steam Deck can make that happen a bit more but I won't be holding my breath.

[@EposVox]

Steam Deck is one of the first major “best examples” of Linux in action we’ve had in a long long time

[@paradoxthedj]

Coming from the DJ world, I personally got a AMD Windows machine because SPEC wise, it was more affordable but did come with issues regarding Latency. I spent wayyyy more time trying to optimize a clean Windows 11 install (Eventually made my own Tiny11 ISO) to get DPC and latency with USBs as low as possible. I think it works as far as I can tell. From researching and reading, Intel Windows Laptops do better Out of the box than AMD Windows out of the box BUT OSX Out of the box is the best experiece for DJs. MS Windows is an issue for sure, but something with AMD and/or AMD drivers causes way above average latency and DPC issues. I love AMD but like Epoxvos, you need realibity though.

[@djjinoreacts]

UAD Apollo would fix that.

[@CoolJosh3k]

There are a ton of reasons to not go Apple for your PC needs, but at least it is way more reliable. Good luck with this and please follow up on occasion with your experience, good and bad.

[@EposVox]

There are very few real reasons not to. Many reasons to do so

[@CoolJosh3k]

@@EposVox I guess it depends on the use case and what matters to the end user.

[@EposVox]

Good thing my use case and needs are clearly communicated

[@CoolJosh3k]

@@EposVox Yup, in your case it should be great. :)

[@JeffGallMusic]

So friggin’ excited! Can’t wait to see deep dive Mac content!!!

[@muizzsiddique]

I have a VST Host and VB-Cables to EQ & Compress my entire system audio, but have been having crackling/delay/buffer issues on my last two laptops, and the occurrence of the problem is very inconsistent. Could these be related to your video? For me it started with a mobile i7 8th Gen and continues to happen on a mobile Ryzen 5000 series. I don't mean to use this as a support thread but my use case is super niche.

[@ninbura]

I have way less audio issues with high end Intel builds vs AMD builds. But even then Apple is simply superior when it comes to Real-Time Audio performance. Windows for gaming and some programming stacks, macOS for everything else!

[@ninbura]

@@HDRPC thanks, but I was making a general statement based on my experience for the last decade. I've run many tests, and without hyper specific hardware and configurations; macOS is superior for Real-Time audio production. This is why it's the industry standard in the music producing/composition sphere.

[@AntonioFlavio-p5b]

I had the same problem at one stage. I too tried everything under the sun doing deep dives into possible causes. It came, it went, then came back, then went again...touch wood, haven't had it for 8 months now. At the end of the day, I'am leaning to one or the other, both, or a combination of certain versions of both. >>>>Nvidia's drivers & Windows updates.

[@S-DeeOfficial]

I used to be the biggest Mac hater, but recently I've started to make the switch for reasons similar to what you mention in this video. As soon as we can play AAA games on Mac, I'm officially done with Windows.

[@marcioantonho]

Solution?

[@dankvader420]

Kind of bummed we won't be seeing any more of your threadripper system as your main PC, but I'm also eager to hear of your experience doing (almost) everything on Mac os from now on.

[@EposVox]

It’ll still have uses ;)

[@XxDeViLBrInGeRxX]

I just saw a video from TEch Yes City were he build a 10th gen PC for editing, he exported it on Premiere and yep, ALSO had audio popping issues. Windows indeed is the main culprit and with something they update, they completely break DPC latency

[@marble_wraith]

You and me both. As soon as i got the news about windows 12 earlier this year and the fact they were going to do integrated AI... i "nope'd" audibly. Moving all the machines i'm responsible for to linux.

[@TheBackyardChemist]

I think this had to be some power saving quirk, especially given how it got worse on TR/TRpro. All low power states have an exit latency, due to voltage and frequency ramp speed, and TR/EPYC has many layers of power states, including IO-die and Infinity Fabric power states. If there is not much memory traffic, the IF will downclocks by default. (AMD calls this DF C-state) On some motherboards this can be turned off, you can run the IOD and DF at full speed all the times, at the cost of ~20-50W increase in idle power.

[@StRoRo]

I was wondering if its a power issue especially as things got worse as more power hungry components were used.

[@djjinoreacts]

Yes, Universal Audio Apollo requires Windows users to disable all power saving and sleep modes. It also has to do with Windows holding on to 24 bit and not developing a 32 bit audio driver.

[@KevPez-IS]

I wonder how good Apple Silicon is with encoding live streams on OBS

[@craigparkeraus]

Looking forward to your apple audio and video content. Your content is always informational. Cheers 👍🏼😎

[@GabrielSykes]

That halation and bloom looks great, you using Dehancer?

[@DeFrisselle]

It's almost like we as streamers should open a dialog with Microsoft, AMD, Intel, and nVidia about the issues we have with their software, drivers, and hardware The Windows audio stack is horrible plus it looks to me that since Windows 8 they have neglected the USB, Video, PCi, etc subsystems over GUI look n' feel and external services bolt ons I try to help out on the OBS Windows Support Forum and it's frustrating to have to explain to someone that their issue is not OBS but how Windows handles things or GPU hardware/dirver issue or intaction with a Windows subsystem

[@bourne_]

nVidia just dropped driver that fixes DPC latency issue for the 30-series cards (Ampere).

[@O_Rice_0]

I'll be interested to see your results with the Mac. I myself also use TR Pro 3000 and a 4090 for my main productivity computer. I don't have recordings anywhere near the quality or quantity that you do so can't say I have a definitive comparison, but I haven't noticed those audio issues on my own recordings. That all being said, I have been wanting to get back into some music production work and I do remember having lots of issues with doing that some years back on the x99 platform back when that was the new thing. Always heard and read basically everywhere people saying (or repeating) that Mac was better for audio related work but never had one so couldn't ever verify it on my own. I will also be interested in how the Mac handles workloads like video and photo editing, AI training and modeling, and other compute heavy workloads in comparison to your TR Pro and 4090 on windows.

[@EposVox]

So far it's blown me away

[@EposVox]

No, a 13900k is not a more "fair comparison" to the M2 Ultra w/ 128GB RAM than my threadripper and 256GB of RAM. No, it's not.

[@Valla451]

Try a reinstall using Fr33thys turbo optimization guide. You might find it resolves all of your issues. He has tested every tweak and optimization and will get windows running as well as it can. Do not install motherboard chipset drivers unless on a x3d chip with multiple CCD's (more than 8 cores) They are not nessasary and cause issues quite a lot But threadripper may need its drivers I am not familiar. Hope you enjoy the Mac though, they are nice for editing

[@BennyFade]

I disabled bt WiFi and upgraded the bios. No dropouts on my rme interface anymore

[@jeremias3363]

Update on this?

[@thejasontlewis]

You can get a TB->HDMI if you want to get that 4th monitor going.

[@EposVox]

Yeah I just have so few ports T_T

[@thejasontlewis]

@@EposVox The 2 USB-A kill me. I have so many USB-A devices. I do have the Cadigit dock and that helps.

[@LastofAvari]

I had insane audio drop out problems with OBS on both Intel and AMD. Other software seemed fine. 2 different audio interfaces - the same thing - every 3 minutes or so there would be a 21 ms gap. So what helped was OBS Asynchronous Audio plugin.

[@Naratis]

This videos aspect ratio confused me but I actually love it for PiP mode and I love that it reminds me of watching tv on those old ass boxes

[@jeremias3363]

network drives actually work really nice in macos? especially with the 10gig ports the studios have.

[@EposVox]

Speed-wise, yes. 10g on this Studio is outperforming any PC networking experience I've ever had. Mapping/maintaining network mappings in Finder is absolute hell compared to Windows.

[@jeremias3363]

@@EposVox I don't agree on the last part at all, I always found it random as hell in Windows. I will make a screen grab of how I maintain it. Curious wat you think of it. If you're interested?

[@needsLITHIUM]

Like, my system works fine for audio recording and editing in Reaper and video editing in kdenlive and resolve, but I never work on sources above 1440p, and mostly just use my phone as my camera for stuff or use cheap USB webcams, so if I only have a Ryzen 5 3600 and an RX 5500XT it doesn't matter, and I never encounter issues with DPC Latency. I use 2 different audio interfaces (one at a time lol), one from Zoom Japan (U-22, for voice chat, streaming, and for re-amping guitars via an outboard mixer) and the other from Behringer (UMC-404HD, for recording guitar and bass DI's, vocals, other instruments) and they both work great in Windows and Linux. Reaper works on Linux, as does Harrison Mixbus, I just wish more of my paid plugins worked on Linux. I actually have a few that do... and everything else isn't there. I would just use Linux all the time, since most of the games I play either run native or work amaing on proton, if all my audio stuff worked native without need for Wine-VST bridges and other convoluted forms of self-masochistic fuckery. I'd rather use Samsung DeX with my spare cell phone than use Windows these days, if I'm completely honest.

[@Psychlist1972]

DPC latency doesn't mean your system can't keep up, it means there's a specific kernel driver (often your video driver or WiFi) that isn't returning from its deferred procedure call (DPC) in the time it was allotted. Generally doesn't have anything to do with any other background or other processes on the computer. On my production PC, I use the NVidia Studio drivers, as they do a bit less to try to max out FPS and win Gaming benchmarks. Most tweak guides on the internet are simply wrong. For example: optimizing for background processes means you are giving MORE time to background services and executing code which can't be traced back to a root interactive window -- the window for the app you're using. I hate that that info is out there. Most people make their computers worse, and don't back out the changes which didn't help, compounding the problem. Custom-built PCs and gaming PCs can have issues like this for sure. Most DIY hardware is geared around gaming, which is all about FPS, not audio. The Mac Studio is nice, but if you wanted to stick with Windows and not go to macOS, you could have purchased a PC from a builder that specializes in the music and video production industries. Plenty of them out there, and they know which components work together for the best performance for these scenarios. Sounds like going to a Mac lets you expand your content and courses anyway, so probably not a concern for you, but it may be for others going along the journey with you. Disclosure: I work in Windows at Microsoft, specifically on apps and tech for musicians.

[@EposVox]

Can’t respond in alloted time = can’t keep up

[@Zinojn]

Have you tried using usb 2.0 for your audio interface (if possible). I also had to regularly disconnect and reconnect my new interface due to weird issues but switching to older usb resolved it. It was recommended by one of the MOTU engineers I believe

[@Zinojn]

I wish I could link url here, but even some interfaces that support usb 3.0, still run better with 2.0

[@EposVox]

I don’t even have usb 2 ports

[@abavariannormiepleb9470]

Has anyone compared a “native” Hackintosh and Windows on the same hardware regarding audio latency issues? I’m curious if it’s just the drivers or the hardware/firmware on the more deeper levels.

[@EposVox]

Well, hackintoshing doesn't make up for the new M1/2 optimizations

[@abavariannormiepleb9470]

It’s just curiosity, not criticizing your purchase. I completely understand getting a regular Mac as a work tool but I would still want to find the root cause of any issues.

[@13Cubed]

Welcome to a whole new world of problems. :( Tried this for a while myself. I still have a M2 Max MBP, but my main production is on a TR PRO 5975WX with a RTX 4090. The M2 Ultra isn't even in the same ballpark as a 4090, but it's impressive for it's footprint and PPW.

[@13Cubed]

Also, really hope you have better luck with OBS on macOS than I.... :(

[@EposVox]

So far, Resolve performance blows my 4090 out the water, AND it can do things in OBS that I could only DREAM of on PC.

[@EposVox]

"Will never have any issues" Tell me you don't understand how computers work without telling me lmfao

[@13Cubed]

​@@EposVox That's pretty sweet. Not a Resolve user myself, so I don't have a frame of reference there. Also, looking forward to meeting you at LTX (I'm one of the invited creators as well).

[@EposVox]

HECK YEAH 1.5 WEEKS

[@Angzarrr]

This is huge. Sucks you had the PC issues, since many don’t. But I’m soooo looking forearms to Mac content.