I’m Not Crazy About My Healthcare Plan | The West Wing

[@Bum_Hip]

No, no, no. Santos should have just said that he has concepts of a plan, and move on. His supporters will love it!

[@luvshak3095]

Lil bro, you're confusing him for Trump.

[@finnellwilliam]

actually this kind of republican i could get with easy

[@Bum_Hip]

@ Vinick couldn’t get elected to dog catcher in today’s Republican Party. He wouldn’t last a month in the primary.

[@prometheustv6558]

⁠@@Bum_Hipeven back then no way would they nominate a pro choice republican

[@seanwebb605]

@@prometheustv6558 The Bush family had a strong connection to Planned Parenthood. The Bushes and the Cheney's were actually even pro LGBTQ and Latin.

[@lukethomsen7786]

What this is a debate ? when is the part they talk about people eating Cats and Dogs or talking about how they finally beat Medicare ? I am so confused

[@ScottRothsroth0616]

For reference↙️: “2024 US Presidential Debate - Thursday June 27th” when the candidates were talking about golf.

[@karmicbreath]

Say whatever you want about how John Wells did compared to Sorkin. Episodes like this were amazing. They changed it up. They took risks. I really loved that.

[@aph1976]

And some of the risks paid off and some didn't but at least the show took risks.

[@shivumganesh]

@@aph1976exactly, if they never took risks we wouldn’t have this gem

[@Bum_Hip]

@@karmicbreath always makes me roll my eyes when people whine about the different writing styles. Was one better than the other? Maybe so, but that doesn’t mean both aren’t worthwhile.

[@RogueBlackOp]

I loved the seasons where we saw campaigning. Traveling, messages, debates. It felt so unique

[@sgtalstrafficticketblog2452]

This is the kind of debate we should have heard in real life, instead of doubling down on cats and dogs . . .

[@TheYpurias]

Hopefully, after Tuesday, November 5th, we never have to worry about that incompetent jackass being in another Presidential debate ever again.

[@hkgcgsdhjgd]

For anyone who didn't see the whole episode, the two candidates mutually agreed to forgo with the rigid debate format (60 seconds to speak, 30 seconds to respond or something like that) that every debate adheres to these days, and instead have an honest-to-god DEBATE. In other words, this whole episode is a pipe dream.

[@IdleByte]

This episode was also shot live. No cuts or do-overs.

[@halberdier25]

@@IdleByteTWICE! Once for eastern audiences and once for pacific audiences.

[@xred_ray8009]

What I love is that while they are fighting tooth and nail they do it respectfully - see Santos giving Vinnick his microphone to keep the debate going!

[@donalocribin3355]

My favourite is the looks on their faces at the end. As someone who enjoys debating and strong discussion, those expressions look to me like they both just had the most fun they've had in so long. Such a passionate debate with actual intelligent discussion and arguments

[@stevechance150]

Ask your grandparents (or your parents if they're old), ask if they like their Medicare coverage, ask them if they're satisfied. I asked mine, they are both deep red Republicans, they said Yes.

[@Gellert1984]

Sure, now ask them if they like other people getting medicare coverage.

[@Lucks-3]

@@Gellert1984 "fuck you, got mine"

[@tailofbud2399]

@@Gellert1984Why would it matter to you if somebody else got access to something everyone should have anyway?

[@Serin9X]

@@tailofbud2399 that sounds like a sensible question doesn't it? Why should it matter. It shouldn't. It literally makes no different to my situation if Jimmy down the street is getting help too. Not on iota. But then I'm not a frothing Republican. Ask a MAGAt if they like their medicare. Now ask them if they think it's a problem that Virgil down the street is getting it too... or Miguel two blocks over. I guarantee you'll get a different answer.

[@tailofbud2399]

@@Serin9X If you believe in MAGA you believe that the US is or should be the greatest country on the planet. If it is or wants to be, it should be able to guarantee medical care to all of its citizens as a right and free at the point of use.

[@TennTrevino]

I worked for the Army Air Force Exchange Service, if the DOD can provide World wide affordable healthcare for Service personnel, all Associates, Staff and Vendors, then use this model for installation of Universal Healthcare for this country! Take the stress off the shoulders of people going through the most vulnerable time’s of their lives, and the meanest, hateful person might just feel good enough to start to care about the rest of us. Take the profits out of Healthcare! The only people who should be enriched are the Doctors, Nurses and everyone within a short walking distance.

[@dee_dee_place]

Who pays for your healthcare coverage, The Military?

[@Elthenar]

@@dee_dee_place Uh huh. I've got a lot of friends in the military and all of them tell me about what a nightmare it can be to get coverage through the VA. The running joke is "I'm sorry, your injury isn't related to your service." There is the hidden danger of gubment healthcare. THEY get to decide if you deserve treatment. I am guessing none of you heard about the case in England where the government decided that this kid should just be allowed to die and told the father he could not take him to another country for the treatment England wouldn't provide. They posted armed police at this kids bed to make sure he died, they didn't want the dad to leave with his son for fear he'd cross the border seeking treatement.

[@TennTrevino]

@@dee_dee_place Well, the insurance plans came from four different providers, I had Kaiser Permanent. My cost came out of my paycheck, bi-weekly at under $150 per month. As far as paying for Universal Healthcare in the future. Just reinstate the tax rates from the 1950’s and legalize marijuana for health, food, clothing and building materials and use the tax money from both of these and just like that, we can have a Universal Healthcare and Affordable Housing.

[@TennTrevino]

@@Elthenar The VA and Healthcare plans that the DOD provide are different institutions. Though you’re right about the VA, almost 90% of the people I worked with were Veterans from three different conflicts.

[@mnfrench7603]

@@ElthenarI dunno, I retired from the Army and everything that happened to me in the Army was transferred to the VA, no issues. Might be the Medical Retirement.

[@NBT2469]

Now THIS is a debate!

[@agnosticChurchworker]

Fun nerdy TV trivia fact: This episode (the debate) was actually live...and aired twice! Once for the East Coast audiences, and once for the West Coast audiences!

[@kalebkloppe6193]

@@agnosticChurchworker which one made it to the DVD?

[@ZiaEllithiel]

@@kalebkloppe6193 The West Coast.

[@thegrahamdalorian185]

I am incredibly fortunate that I have, for the USA, a great insurance plan. I shouldn't need to feel lucky. We need universal coverage in this country and we need it yesterday. There shouldn't need to be charity hospitals, there shouldn't need to be GoFundMe campaigns to save children's or even adult's lives. We are better than this, or at least we can be. If we had a wealth tax for anyone making over 2 billion dollars (US) we could fund Medicare for all and no hospital would close, no doctor would go unpaid, and lives would be saved. One complaint about publicly funded healthcare is that there would be extended wait times to see a doctor, well I have to see a kidney specialist and the soonest I could get in was Oct. 21st. I made the appointment Sept. 20th. With excellent insurance. Can someone tell me how this is any better?

[@ER1CwC]

Medicare for all is just one of many potential paths towards universal health care. Most universal systems don’t do away with private insurance entirely, and many are based on private insurance primarily, relying on various sorts of mandates (e.g., employer mandate, individual mandate) and subsidies. The key issue in America is that the health care “system” was not designed according to a coherent plan, but rather emerged piecemeal over time, which alters the political possibilities. Canada has medicare for all (excluding dental and vision) because a multi-partisan commission endorsed it in the 1960s before the private health insurance industry really took off. In contrast, in America, private insurance emerged first roughly around the end of WWII as a way for employers to offer employees tax-free benefits (employer sponsored insurance - ESI). If an employer paid an employee $100, all $100 would be taxed; whereas if an employer paid an employee $80 and offers $20 worth of health insurance benefits, only the $80 of direct wages would be taxed. So by the time Lyndon Johnson came along with Medicare, many Americans were already covered through ESI, and liked what they had. Medicare for all was thus a political nonstarter.

[@ER1CwC]

The mic pass from Santos to Vinick is a nice touch.

[@TheNecropolis20]

Now this is a real debate

[@bmyattuk]

Personally I like my system here in the UK, where I go to a doctor, get my problems dealt with, and don't have to worry about a bill afterwards.

[@derrickstorm6976]

As a Finn I get to tell you that in the UK you still wait for a doctor for 3 months :-)

[@matthewgeschke5378]

See in the US, we get to wait, pay, and then get fucked by insurance anyway.

[@bmyattuk]

@derrickstorm6976 you know, I really love it when people who aren't here try and tell me about my own health care system. I have never once had to wait three months to see a doctor. The Longest I've waited is three days. Yes, there are some trusts with waiting times. No, it is not "three months." There aren't death panels deciding if people live or die either.

[@magdalenamarwedel521]

You can get an appointment? Good for you. They are a rare thing in the UK.

[@borkguy]

The bill comes while you work dingus. You just pay at a different time.

[@predatorproduction1231]

Nice to see Senator Organa debate xD. I wonder if they had elections on Alderaan, well, before they blew up of course

[@Ruprect44]

We may have some problems with our system up here in Canada, but the peace of mind that comes knowing you or your family could have an emergency (as happened with the birth of my first, and then to me recently), get excellent care and then not be stuck with a massive bill afterward is worth the little bit more that comes off my cheque every two weeks.

[@luvshak3095]

It's depressing how we only get the candidates we deserve in fiction.

[@TheMelbournelad]

As an Aussie paying 1.5% levy for Medicare, that’s a bargain. Ild be happy with proposed raise to 2% if meant wait times etc goes down

[@araomar5028]

My favorite episode!

[@IanSmith2814]

This episode was live wasn’t it?

[@mehalld]

Yes, they did it once for the east coast, and then again for the west coast, though I forget which this is. There's not much difference, but there's a few flubbed lines in each and the performances are different in areas, but this is whatever one (I think east coast) that got put on the DVDs, that then also ended up on the streaming platforms.

[@paulwalker3758]

Everything after the pre-title sequence was.

[@dinobotpwnz]

@@mehalld My DVD has west coast.

[@Ruprect44]

@@mehalld The Complete Series I bought on iTunes has the West coast broadcast only.

[@movingforwardLDTH]

Yea, and it was AMAZING to watch it when it first aired!

[@dee_dee_place]

I'm on Medicare. The only problem with Medicare is it doesn't pay for medications. I have to go to a private insurance company to get Part D. The premium costs a lot, the deductible is high, the cut-off (donut hole) comes fast, & it doesn't cover much.

[@starpartyguy5605]

Premiums for part D for me cost me $14 a month. Plan G premiums cost me $130 per month, approximately $50 more per month than what an advantage plan costs. I don’t have to ask for a referral for anything. Nobody in Medicare tells my doctor how he can treat me, or deny procedures I might need. I do have to pay for glasses and dental myself. Overall, the freedom from greedy insurance companies is worth the price.

[@kaixiang5390]

Which is crazy, as medications are the easiest cost to keep down

[@anonymous91877]

My understanding of healthcare between us, aus and UK is that UK has the better option for doctor based health followed but aus. We have Medicare for all citizens in Aus. In 90 percent of cases there are still doctor fees but it's more affordable then USA. Our private health covers basic dental, partial cost towards glasses, osteo, physio and more. Our hospital cover also covers far more then USA. Plus if U have no hospital cover but go to public hospital for an emergency U will be covered for most things. It's more the non emergency stuff that will incur some cost. USA really drop the ball for healthcare

[@noahbrown6970]

They didn't drop the ball, so much as they chose to play a different game. Most countries operate within capitalism the way a frog lives in a body of water - most of the time there's no issue, but when there is then the option is there to leave the swamp (privatised industry) and move to land for a bit without suffocating (public healthcare, state-funded education, benefit plans, etc.). America operates within capitalism the way a WHALE lives in a body of water - it's just not built to survive without it. China, Cuba, and Vietnam will all BECOME fully capitalist before America ever STOPS being that way

[@starfall9400]

And yet we have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the Post Office, public education, farm subsidies, and corporate subsidies. We have a lot of socialism built into our country that people don't even see anymore, because they've gotten used to it. Expanding healthcare is not exactly going to be crossing the Rubicon.

[@ER1CwC]

@@starfall9400Those policies are not necessarily socialist. Adam Smith seriously flirted with public education, and the first public health care insurance scheme was enacted by Otto von Bismark. FDR who of course began social security also did not have a socialist bone in his body, contrary to what Bernie Sanders might claim. Traditional definitions of socialism usually require at least public ownership of the means of production.

[@LennyCole96]

Santos is right. Here in the U.K. companies like Bupa couldn't make the money the USA makes domestically because the N.H.S simply exists which is why they invest overseas as well

[@beckjtjt2522]

Waves in NHS from the UK. Universal healthcare with care free from cradle to grave is the only way.

[@Prauwlet213]

Senator Organa didn't die on Aalderaan, he lightsped to earth and continued his political career there.

[@seanwebb605]

Star Wars took place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

[@alanschwartz7073]

Santos sighting, back to the Pilot

[@redkiwi5980]

This is like 20 years ago and what has changed?

[@matthewchristovich]

They tried with the Affordable Care Act and both Democrats and Republicans bowed to the insurance companies. They were going to give us a public option, but they killed it because they know everyone would choose it if they could.

[@JaiWithani]

Compared to when this was filmed: - we have subsidized health care exchanges - we expanded Medicaid access (up to 133% poverty line) - people with pre-existing conditions can't be denied insurance - out-of-pocket costs are capped - more aggressive federal negotiation of medication pricing (resulting in e.g. $35 insulin) - there's a standard set of benefits that all insurance plans are required to cover - advances in medical technology means that insurance is providing access to treatments that weren't even possible twenty years ago

[@ScottRothsroth0616]

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) or Affordable Care Act (ACA) (AKA: “Obamacare”)

[@cz2165]

And Bernie Sanders has been saying this before, and ever since then, he’s absolutely right and yet we still don’t have universal Medicare.

[@Airick29]

Politifact says that Bernie Sanders claim is only half true because of how Medicare dovetails with Social Security.

[@Bum_Hip]

So unrealistic. Not one mention of anyone eating cats OR dogs.

[@deProfundisAdAstra]

This is so silly in a way that only late West Wing can be. People taking this seriously should remember this is a TV show written twenty years ago, in a radically different political atmosphere, and was recognized at the time to be more about navel gazing than realism.

[@SmedleyButlerianJihad]

Aaron Sorkin wrote the West Wing while hooked up to a machine that allowed him to sniff his own farts. It’s a neoliberal fantasy of politics that poisoned the brains of democrats for decades

[@joseppi1121]

alan alda jumpscare

[@cheydinal5401]

The weird part about this is that in a real debate, some parts are scripted monologues and zingers that they came up with before and practiced (what the actors are *actually* doing here), while other parts are what they actually came up with on the fly, while here of course the "off the cuff" stuff is just as scripted and comes across like that as well Also, normally politicians think with every word how that will play with voters, and are super self-conscious especially while they're in a nationally televised debate, while these actors here - like most actors - try to be as un-selfconscious as possible. Actors normally do that to be "more lifelike" but in this case it's actually very counterproductive

[@vdoggydogg3922]

It's fully scripted

[@Shamino1]

@@vdoggydogg3922 This particular episode was filmed live, twice, for two different audiences. A handful of improvs made it in.

[@vdoggydogg3922]

@@Shamino1 they were following a script both times. Don't be an idiot.

[@ajingogliafilms5340]

Ummmm….who’s here now because of Luigi???

[@seanwebb605]

I'm here because of Mario.

[@GrAmHero]

If Medicare is such a great option, why haven't California and New York copied the program for their own residents? Certainly they have sufficient population to achieve the same economies of scale that Medicare does? If it works as great as everyone says, that should easily pass in the legislatures of those 2 Democrat-controlled states. They could even do it together, and if its the great success that Democrats say it will be, other states will want to join or copy their program.

[@CVB6]

For those who qualify in NYC, they have medicade (state insurance) and it it the best insurance second to Medicare, for the patients. Not the hospitals but it is amazing for patients.

[@deiansalazar140]

States cannot offer duplicate programs also states are more vulnerable to emigration making taxes more all over the place.

[@robtulley963]

Lol..... Retirees onedicate still need to carry a "plan B" health plan.... In my father's case it's over $3000 a year for a supplemental insurance plan because Medicare is not enough

[@SuperBigChops]

Something something M4A

[@dansmith6572]

This is a perfect example of Aaron Sorkin's screen writing formula. On the left is the "Sorkin smart" character, the character the audience should agree with (Cong. Santos played by Jimmy Smits) on the right is the Straw Man the "dumb" character (Sent Vinick played by Alan Alda). The secret is he writes what the "smart" character would say in an ideal dream scenario if the dumb character said the perfect thing to set him up. The next step is to ignore all reality. Sorkin does this by ignoring the normal debate time constraints, rules, and the existence of a moderator and creates beautiful new world. He presents the main character with an open stage, he's then handed a microphone in a reality that would only fit in a musical then he says the perfect monologue counter point. It reminds me of when Dorothy landed in oz. It's enjoyable to watch but it's just one person's dream, it's not reality.

[@Shamino1]

In my opinion Vinick wins the overall debate. His points concerning tax cuts were poignant, intelligent, emotionally delivered. I think Vinick is written very smartly for a clearly democrat-stacked show. I think they write him like a moron in his reaction to certain issues like the nuclear disaster and his religion, not in the debates or when interacting with the main cast. This is also 3 years after Sorkin was let go.

[@fawesum]

Sorkin was out of this show three years before this episode was made. He literally had nothing to do with it.

[@YankeesFan0620]

I’m scared of a society where the lowest tax bracket is 35%

[@ohnezuckerohnefett]

Fantasy democracy. Cute.

[@vdoggydogg3922]

The unisured are not in the 35% bracket. And it would be forced because the government would run it.

[@deiansalazar140]

They can CHOOSE to be on it. Nothing's forced.

[@agbook2007]

I think Santos (Smits) flubbed the line. It should be reverse of that at 0:30.

[@vdoggydogg3922]

@@deiansalazar140 so he says, name one thing the government does at that level that is not mandatory. Can you choose to opt out of social security?

[@deiansalazar140]

@@vdoggydogg3922 Why do you want to give employers and others like dishonest anti social security politicians loopholes to prevent people from getting social security? Better yet, why do you want to opt out of social security? I'm on social security. Also there's plenty of programs welfare and other stuff. Your cherry picking is laughable. Optional social security is part of a regression away from social security instead of providing a new service, it's exactly what people who want to destroy social security want.

[@vdoggydogg3922]

@deiansalazar140 and I am paying for you, not for my social security. It's a ponzi scheme. I should be able to opt out if i don't get any possible future benefits. I want social security terminated.

[@squireob]

Blue tie, red tie. One lie, other lie.

[@borkguy]

Nuh uh, the one I like never lies, the one I don’t like only lies!

[@dutchvanderlinde5004]

Former Trump voter and I wish we had Medicare for all option.