I'm not excited about the CFMOTO Ibex 450

[@istra70]

Absolute rubbish. This bike has no competition on the market....

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Recently rode it in Portugal and I really liked it. If I took my KZbin career seriously I would make a follow up video where I ate my own words! But here in Norway it's a lot more expensive than in other countries, and probably the best part about this bike was its price..

[@MujoNovak]

What competition? 450MT engine reliability not tested yet. And with 200 kg is far from being light "adventure" bike.

[@istra70]

@MujoNovak for the money it cost, nobody is offering more in the whole world.

[@LTS280]

I do understand your point. I was kind of with you when I first saw the weight but then I sat down and gave it a quick thought and realized what this bike really is. It's not a dedicated offroad bike. It's a beginner adventure bike that hopefully does really well offroad. Just consider what you are getting for the price and realize that nobody offers similar equipment (adjustable KYB suspension, adjustable windscreen, a nice TFT dash,removable subframe and footpegs, tubeless wheels, more fuel capacity than the T7, switchable ABS). It seems that the extra weight might make it more comfortable and practical on the street which it will spend most of it's time on while at the same time not sacrifice on features ADV riders want. At the same time it seems more offroad capable than the 390 adventure and NX500 which it competes with. I think it fills a gap between the CRF300 and T7 surprisingly well. It remains to be seen how it performs in the real world. Can't wait to hear your thoughts once you have ridden it.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Excellent comment, and I agree with pretty much every point. Incredible package for the money, no doubt. "Beginner adventure bike" - presumably good suspenion (KYB) - great for beginners, low cost - great for riders entering this world, tubeless wheels so beginners aren't put off by changing tubes (although I think that's an important lesson to learn early on) - great. Many things about this bike that will suit a beginner, definitely, but more important than all aforementioned things is weight - for beginner riders weight is king and this bike missed the mark by 25kg in my opinion. So on paper it's close, ticks many boxes, but I hoped to see a lower total weight than around 190-195kg. I will share my thoughts as soon as I get to ride it. And thanks again for a refreshing comment, nice with some positivity to combat my negativity 😁

[@GinZzZ98]

​​@@JohannesDalenMC as a Leoncino 500 and Triumph scramble like me, the 195kg curb weight is just perfect, for a Chinese bike, the exhaust system is just way to heavy, just like you said to T7, you can change the exhaust to reduce the weight, full system exhaust weight is around 15-25kg, so put that out the total weight is around 175-180kg curb, still lighter than most of the bike at the same price. I don't know if this is true or not, but i read a Manual pdf file of cf450MT. They say the curb weight is around 185kg total. Maybe to look forward to see in real life.

[@renebatticciotto4849]

I have read the manual and it states 185 kerb weight which with an exhaust, tail tidy, and some removal will be that back to the 175 kerb

[@NoRoads2AllRoads]

Not to mention it has more fuel than t7... So apples to apples maybe it will be 170kg kerb vs 205kg

[@mxbadboy263]

​@@JohannesDalenMC You haven't rode it yet!

[@dimoskoutoudis4639]

a thing people tend to forget is that gasoline doesnt wigh the same as water, 1L gas = 0.75kgs, so 17L is something less than 13kgs, plus the lithium battery and an aftermarket exhaust, you can get it to be around 180kg kerb

[@Perturab0o]

I don't understand the weight argument at all. Yeah, it is close to 200kg. But what does it compete with? NX500? 196 kg. Much less off road capability, same displacement, almost 2 times the price. KTM 390 Adventure? That's a crossover at best and it weighs 180kg. What are you talking about? The weight being almost the same as a T7? Yeah, well everything in the sub 500cc class weighs 10 kilos less than the T7, so how is it an Ibex problem? For its price, with everything else (weight included) virtually the same as the competition - this IS a great bike on paper. I think that these "weight is the problem" people just made up a problem to believe in because its a chinese bike or what not. You don't really hear people whining about the Himalayan now do you? Some say it's the perfect ADV bike, same with the KLR.

[@pawelwolski1316]

He absolutely has a point regarding the weight, after all its physics. If you look at the type of riding he does, he is at the dual purpose/trail bike end of the spectrum. At this end, 190 kgs (with fuel) is heavy. I ride 155 kgs Rally 300, but honestly, even in "exotic" Indonesia, I still spend 80% on pavement and would not go with the MT into some of the places I take my Rally. However, I am getting the MT 450 for its designed purpose, dirt capable, super well equipped, reasonably priced with acceptable weight (in dirt again) bike.

[@Perturab0o]

@@pawelwolski1316 well why review this bike at all then? I rode bycicles all my life basically, should I complain about the MT's weight based on my riding experience with bycicles? I don't understand your point here.

[@andrewtreloar7389]

Weight, Power, Price...pick any two!! You want a lightweight powerful offroader, then you pay for it. You want a cheap ADV with grunt, it's gonna be heavy. You want it to be both light and cheap it's gonna be a tiny single cylinder engine. I don't really understand this obsession with weight, especially when you guys say 'it's five kilos heavier than this bike'....five kilos is NOTHING!! It's where the weight is placed that's important. If you have ever gone on multi-day rides or moto camping five kilos is a pump and two tubes. Like I said, it's where the weight is placed. So, ride one first, then give us your thoughts, you may be surprised!!

[@MujoNovak]

@@Perturab0o and why he shouldnt?

[@GS-uy4xo]

I rode one today - felt really light (of course it was almost empty) but it was a very enjoyable experience. Great turning radius for low speed stuff, very comfortable seat and riding position, (* I’m 166cm 5’5” and I could reach but not flatfoot) had a silky smooth clutch/gear box and it definitely had a low center of gravity, never once felt like it wanted to be anywhere but upright. I live in China and the dealer just got this one - they’ll be selling them next week; before then I’ll go back and ride it some more (they have a decent area and a big gravelly lot to explore - even though there’s no crash bar they said it’s ok just don’t go crazy!). This definitely felt like a step up from the Honda cb400x (no 500’s here) and the Kove and Voge bikes generally feel too big for me so this is in sweet spot for sure. Pricing will most likely be close to 29,000 rmb so about 4k USD (again nothing added, not even a center stand). All said, t’s worth experiencing for yourself - to me it’s killer !

[@PCsChronicles-ew4sd]

Glad you able to test it out. How about cornering control on a winding or twisty road?

[@GS-uy4xo]

@@PCsChronicles-ew4sd I wasn’t able to go anywhere other than a small test area so I’ll have to rely on other riders here who purchase and post the real test rides.

[@mxbadboy263]

$4000??? No way.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Numbers numbers, numbers .... Ktm 640adv wet is 180kg and yet it feels at LEAST like half of my Africa twin. Like toy. The point is numbers don't represent feel of bike in real world. 20% less weight for some reason feels like 60%less

[@sosdingle1]

I'm really excited to get my hands on one of these. I personally don't think the weight is a problem. Most people will probably use this bike on the road the majority of the time. At least with the 190 kg weight it shouldn't get blown around the road. Anyway I've never felt that a bike of this weight was heavy. I think its a very good compromise and will suit most people, me included. And it looks fantastic. Let's hope the quality is good and also that it's reliable.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Now this is the kind of positivity that I want to combat my criticism! Many great points - if your bike is "too light", it'll be terrible on windy days with traffic at speed. It also depends on how it is carrying its weight. Please let me know how it is once you have some time with it 🙂

[@PCsChronicles-ew4sd]

@@JohannesDalenMC I saw the review where the CFMoto 450NK lighter body (curb weight 165 kg) traveling at 100+ Kph on a highway with no crosswind issue. Hence, I believe this heavier 450MT (curb weight almost 200 kg) will be even more stable! :)

[@ferkuzuel]

I ride an f800gs that only weights 456lbs, So if I compare it for example to a cb500x that weights 439 lbs, the 500 is more compact , smaller and is easier to ride off road at least for most average riders ,and even though that is not that much lighter than the middle weight bikes, it has more manageable power that can help many riders rebuild confidence so in general, I think the Ibex 450 It's an awesome package for riders that are either down sizing from bigger adv. bikes or for those who want a motorcycle that is a little easier to learn advenures with.

[@ripmax333]

POWER, LIGHT WEIGHT, and CHEAP, nowadays on many motorcycles you can choose only 2 of these features.

[@shahadsorwar3843]

2nd hand Honda is my answer for you. But you should have a sharp eye and little bit of luck too get this kind of sweet deal

[@Onceuponatimejotaele]

Spot on! Absolutely right. That's exactly what I thought after having done some research on the 450MT. They didn't quite get it because it's not as light-weighted as it should be.

[@slakk5093]

Just called my dealer, first shipment already sold out, second shipment nearly sold out.. So its already popular I guess

[@PCsChronicles-ew4sd]

Dam, everywhere the same...the earliest available batch is next year....this is crazy lol

[@droflivelife]

People will always fall for a spec sheet and price tag. Let's see how they hold up.

[@eddale5557]

@@droflivelife Yes i think the KTM engine it have holds pretty good for years!

[@MujoNovak]

And shipment is what...? two bikes LOL. Just like here in slovenia. All "three" sold out.

[@Liberty4Ever]

Arguably not quite the unicorn ADV bike we've all been wanting, but a lot better than our pleas being ignored by the big moto cartel for at least two decades. They had the technological ability to make a lightweight off road capable ADV bike with enough power for sustained highway cruising, but they intentionally didn't to protect the sales of their mid and full size ADV bikes. They would only allow us to have a lighter bike that was decent off road, or a heavy bike that was good on highways, but with no option that was good on and off road, as an ADV bike should be. Their marketing departments insisted on having an ADV lineup where price correlated to engine displacement and they insisted that small ADV bikes are lower cost beginner bikes designed to get us on the upgrade path to their larger ADV bikes. The 450 Ibex was a good attempt at selling us the bike we want even though most of us want to pay another $1000 for 25 kg less weight. Maybe Kove will make an ADV version of their 450 Dakar bike. The best outcome would be for the Chinese manufacturers to bust up the big moto cartel with some competition that forces them to make the ADV bike we want - a lightweight off road oriented bike that's powerful enough to cruise on highways.

[@MotoSly]

I ordered one. And it's a lot of Bang for buck! And most people that are complaining about the weight still defend the T7. And that thing is heavier and the weight is up high. This bike seems to have it's weight down low, so picking it up won't be any different than picking a CRF30L up. And please don't forgt it's and ADV bike, NOT a dedicated offroad bike. People always stare blind on the offroad.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Nice, congrats! It sure is a lot of bang for your buck. I agree that we have to identify our intended purpose with a bike, and no adventure bike is meant for enduro riding. At the same time, on an adventure, at least in my experience, you never really know how things look around the next corner. Sure, you can always turn around and find an easier way, but I have the most fun when things get rough. At around 190 kg the rough sections can be hard, that's why I wanted to see this bike 20kg lighter. That would make it less stable on the road, so there's a compromise there. Either way, sounds like you've identified what you expect from your adv bike and that's really important. I hope it turns out to be an excellent bike and please let me know how it is once you have some time with it! Ride safe my friend.

[@enduromotorradtouren]

Agree, Johannes. It's not a unicorn, more of a "normal" bike. If you want power - T7. If you want handling - Tuareg. If you want rally - Kove 450. If you want lightweight - (maybe) CRF 300 L. If you want cheap price - Voge 300 Rally. The CF Moto 450 falls between all chairs. Nearly the same weight as my 30 year old Transalp 600 ;-) Happy days, Günter/Nürnberg

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Excellent summary Gunter! Have a great weekend :)

[@eddale5557]

Nope the The CF Moto 450 fails not it is the one peoples want in the lighweight class and there is almosnt none 450 cc out there who can compare to this Cfmoto because it is not any. 300 cc is to small 600 cc is to big, 500 Honda NX are a bit to heavy and expensive and have no gear stock it is ribbed for all!

[@enduromotorradtouren]

@@eddale5557 Massive difference: The CF Moto 450 is 1 kg lighter than the Honda NX 500. Honda weight data usually is spot on (have weighed hundreds of bikes and scooters in my journalistic career).

[@zmoke10]

These small bikes which are sold in all major markets can not be any lighter due to A2 bike licence in europe. Limit is 35Kw and 0,2kW/kg. 175kg is minimum weight for this power when you look power to weight ratio. Therefore all these small bikes are max 48hp. If manufacturer wants to make lighter, they need to drop power. So its all about fullfilling EU requirements. Thank Brussel bureaucrats.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Very important and interesting information - thank you for chiming in. It did cross my mind that it might have something to do with meeting A2 requirements. So they could have made the bike lighter, skipping the A2 requirements and sold it only as a full license bike? If so, sounds like they would have sold even more of it, unless there's a huge A2 market which I have no clue about. All these rules, regulations, standards to meet. Too much to keep up with..

[@zmoke10]

Manufacturers typically know their business, I’m sure they have calculated whats profitable on each segment. I’m not aware that any of the manufacturers would have done pure low weight-high power models to europe under current euro5 emission norm, and next level euro5+. Its very expensive to develop and type approve such an engine and if ot does not sell… somebody needs to take the responsibility. Its better for marketing team to suggest low emission hybrid model than specific high power one off model for adv people. If Toyota would do bikes they might do that… looking GR Yaris how special model it is, they have invested huge amount €€ to develop such a niche car, which probably will never cover its development costs.

[@MrTmax74]

​@@JohannesDalenMCand half of it is baloney anyways. Bureaucrats with all their laws and emission standards trying to save the planet. Meanwhile they fly around with their private jets bitching. 😉

[@eddale5557]

Can only update the Bosch ECU on the Cfmoto then it get more power if needed but ofc that is unlegal and no insurance wil pay for anything if some happend.

[@mnap89]

I think this is stupid requirement but requirement it is :/ They could drop the weight a little bit, becasue official technical specification says it produce 32,5kW so minimum weight could be 162,5kg.

[@ianross225]

You’re right, Johannes. Weight is key and once a twin engine is used the weight gain is inevitable. If KTM’S 690 can be made smooth and a bike weighing under 150kg why not a 450? The CF Moto 450 is, essentially, a high spec bike for the money but that’s the only new ground to me. Like a lot of Chinese bike manufacturers, they’re listening, learning and acting, all lessons the “west” could and should learn before (if it isn’t already) it’s too late.

[@ThePikoflex]

I do agree. It`s not the unicorn we are looking for to be honest, but i also think it is the best affordable option on the market right now. I would like to elaborate on that statement though. If you want some decent power, some electronics, more comfort and a "smaller" bike that acutally looks and probobly feels like a proper adventure bike.... that this is your best option at this very moment. You get "more" of what we want without sacrificing power or money. The 300 Rally is lighter yes, but it also only has a single with 28 hp and terrible suspension. The NX500 still has cast wheels and weighs 20 kg more dry if i am not misstaken and quite a bit more costly. The 390 adventure is lighter, but a clunky design and still a single with all of its power up top. Taking those facts into consideration, you might find that this bike is on top of its direct competitors right now. But then again, it still dosent really tickle my fancy. I am still holding on to the dream that the 390 R from KTM will be "the one".

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Great comment and when you put it like that it seems like the best bike in the 500cc segment right now. I'd personally go for a 300 rally and fix the suspension I think - can't really tell until I've tried this one too.

[@ThePikoflex]

@@JohannesDalenMC This is true. But have you seen the price of the "new" 300 Rally? Almost 100K for one right now. Suspension can be fixed with another 15-20K though.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Insanity! I've actually never checked the new price, only used. Well, after suspension mods you're just a hair under a PR7 or 690/701 (if single is what you're after).

[@TheGardenSnake]

See I don't trust any of these weight numbers haha. I have my own scales and I will see for myself. I weigh a few T7's in real world setups, crash cages and exhaust. I saw between 215-222kg. I've seen similar for 790/890 adv. I'm hoping the real word weight of the 450MT is like 190ish kg. And of course how will it translate to actual riding? But yeah if it ends up too heavy then it kinda loses the point. Heck my "TW700" wet is 197kg and feels WAY lighter than a T7 haha. So there are many factors.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Hey man, nice to see you here! You're right, and on top of not correct numbers, for some reason we operate with both wet and dry weight. "My car weighs only x KGs without the wheels" - dry weight is useless, I don't get why it's a thing..

[@j_a_a]

I think dry weight can be helpful when comparing bikes with different sizes fuel tanks. For example, the kove 450 has almost double the fuel capacity of the t7, adding like 10kg ​@@JohannesDalenMC It would be nice if they advertised with both, but unfortunately companies are gonna company and advertise the most favorable numbers

[@JohannesDalenMC]

@@j_a_a That makes perfect sense, both dry and wet weight would be even better!

[@Fiatmannen1]

So I had versys300 and sold because of lack of power very highrevving engine and no torque. This 450 fills the holes

[@roelfkromhout]

TW700?

[@modzso2]

I think it is very similar to the now Honda NX500. But more ready for adventure (21/18 tubeless vs 19/17 wheels). Similar weight, similar power. A lot of CB500X/NX500 is being sold, and many of them being adventurized, so they want a bite of the small cc adventure bike cake. Also probably it wont have enough torque down low for the hardcore offroad.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Agreed! Seems like this CFMOTO will come in at around 30% less money.

[@modzso2]

Just looked up the price: CFMoto 450MT lists for 6050 EUR, while the Honda NX500 7370 EUR. It will definitely make some people think which one to buy.

[@metalsadman]

cfmoto always had a weight issue, they'll come along with their newer bikes, which is showing in their 450s lineupa, we'll see if the 800mtx if they have progressed more.

[@dmn82]

I think Kove 500x is also worth considering. Very similar to Honda , but it does not require so many adjustments to become adventure-like bike, so overall much cheaper than Honda. On their page we can read it’s 178kg of curb weight, but it’s hard to believe :) Seems it’s some mistake on their page as we see its successor which is 510x and its curb weight is 205kg. That is not the direction that this and any other model should go ;)

[@eddale5557]

@@JohannesDalenMCCa 80 000 kr i Norge.

[@pawelwolski1316]

I agree with you, the bike should be 175 kg full of fuel, it's not.....but. I think of it as a mid size (engine displacement) ADV bike that is off road capable. This is the CB500X (sorry now NX500) that Honda (and the rest) refuse to build. Fully adj suspension, tubeless spoked wheels, established and what seems like a reliable 450 parallel twin, good amount of supporting tech without going overboard...........I like the fact that its 45 HP, you will be able to actually use the engine without busting limits in 1st gear, I ride 150 and 300 cc bikes here in Indonesia. CFMOTO itself is by now "well established" big company, look at the improvements they have done in their atv and side by side products. Last is the price of the MT450, it's very reasonable. I have their little Papio SS mini bike ($2400 here in Indonesia). The build quality, the features, the materials/paint/electrical components all on par with the big names. Looking at the MT in this light makes it a valid option. Yes I wish it was bit lighter.........

[@MujoNovak]

cb500x is also 200 kg!

[@badyride909]

Versys 300 173 kg dry...Cf 450 MT almost the same weight but: 10 hp more, 200 mm suspension travel, disconnectable ABS, 21-18 wheels, TFT, adjustable windshield, tubeless, full adjustable KYB suspension front and rear ,23 mm ground clearance, 44 Nm versus 19 for the versys, full LED, traction control, 320 mm disc in front, 4-piston caliper, Bluetooth connectivity... are you seriously comparing it to the Tuareg 660 or T700 because of the weight? A fair comparison would be with the Honda CB 500X and I doubt that Aprilia will last longer than any Chinese motorcycle... I think that the 450 MT is a before and after in this segment, CF has taken the first step or rather a slap in the face to the Japanese sitting on Olympus with their Boring and expensive models for more than 20 years (in this segment at least). Greetings.

[@glennboy66]

Agree totally, cant believe so many pre ordered this bike before riding it. Nearly as heavy as a klr650 and less power but only a little cheeper and resale you will get that back. Hopefully the weight is down low and the suspension is not squishy.

[@mxbadboy263]

Yeah, all this blind faith in a Chinese made motorcycle is misplaced. Good luck to anyone buying one.

[@mxbadboy263]

Suzuki DR650. 166kg all fluids and full tank of gas. $7000 MSRP. No way the Cfmoto compares to what the Japanese offer. The DR650 is built in Japan.

[@IAmYourReflection]

The kove 800 looks interesting

[@krazed0451]

Yeah, seeing the Kove 800 Rally come out at the same weight as this 450 pretty much nuked my interest in the CFMoto. Although you can't beat the cost of the 450, I'm sure it will be popular for beginners.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Interesting is the understatement of century. It's shaking whole stale industry

[@droflivelife]

The Voge is better

[@krazed0451]

@@droflivelife The Voge is 220kg dry... No thanks.

[@droflivelife]

@krazed0451 most are saying the kove advertisement weight is fake. We will see.

[@jpaulie2008]

this bike is on my list to look at because it is one more cylinder, and a few pounds lighter than what I have. As for power, it is 3 or 4 horses more and about 4 ft lbs of torque more. Not a whole lot of power gain, just probably smoother than my 450 cc single cylinder. It also has the 21/18 rim combo that would make tires easier and cheaper to find. Other than that, the ride would have to be a lot better than my zongshen RX4 for me to swap to a different bike.The RX4 has fully adjustable suspension, tubless rims and does the highway work well. Did a cross country run this summer on it, and have no complaints at all.

[@iangriffiths9930]

If this 450 comes with crash bar, still bash plate tubeless wheels and is 190kgs I don’t think that’s too bad considering you will probably add some of these items to the T7 that you compared this bike too. In reality the T7 once fitted with the crash protection will weight maybe 210-215 kgs if you don’t spend a fortune on an aftermarket exhaust (as you could do this for the 450too?) so you could end up with a bike weight differential of maybe 20-25kgs

[@crazyosva]

My KTM 790 Adventure R in stock condition was 189 kg dry. With some mods I dropped 15 kg, so lets say it's 190 kg wet now. So you are perfectly right, this CF Moto 450 MT would be very interesting at 165 kg wet I think

[@LamosRides]

I think this bike will shake up the whole adv community. Definitely getting one asap to compare it with my fully built T7. Even though it has the 175kg, most of it will be pretty low as the engine is small in comparison to the one in T7. So with like 4-5 liters of fuel I expect it to be super light and agile, similar to a "heavy" 690. But we'll see, excited!

[@marcosagosti6175]

17 lts of fuel is ~12Kg as the density of gasoline is 0,7kg/lt. So, 175 + 12 kgs is 187Kg, no too bad. Include the suspension, tubeless rims, good price and the combination is pretty good. We'll see when it comes out.

[@robertkoper3039]

Agree with you on this bike,it is a pity that weight is about 30 kg too much for off road.Picking it up will need some of your muscles 😅The kove 450 still is my favourite to replace my 300 l in a year or so.Hope to test ride it though because I do have some reservation on the fact that it really only comes alive when you are giving it some beans.it might be a bit of a change from the puttering around off road at max 60-70 km/h….but riding it will proof if that is an issue.Best regards from a warmer but too dry S.Spain

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Let me know how you find the Kove once you've test ridden it, Robert! And enjoy some sherry for me too down there, crazy to think about the difference in climate we're having 😅

[@tieoneon1614]

Just a warning to some who listen...after having a few of the GPX bikes Id never buy 1 again. The Kove is built by and from the same factory of Frankenstein'd KTM/Honda parts from expired copyrights. U will find fitment issues, and especially EFI issues. And when they update a bike every few years, parts for that bike will be impossible to find. They dont carry any, they strip them off new bikes to those who complain the loudest. Most shops wont work on the off brand suspension either. So in a few years, the bike will be a paper weight when certain parts fail. You would be much smarter buying a lightly used 690, 450RL, DR/XR to fit your riding and personalize it knowing it has resale and aftermarket behind it.

[@mxbadboy263]

​@@tieoneon1614well said and very true.

[@iangriffiths9930]

I’ve tested one of these now, just on the road but wow what a bike, it feels so light, very punchy engine up to about 60mph, quality seems very good and here in the UK has a 4 year warranty. One problem is supply, can’t get one here until March 25!

[@JohannesDalenMC]

I'm very happy to hear the bike is better than my initial criticism! I saw a few down in Crete and it both looks and sounds great. You should check out Offroad Offcourse' coverage of this bike, he just bought one. I will ride his when I go back there in October!

[@willyd-adv]

Just seen some documents stating 185kg curb weight But also dry weight at 175kg So with 17 litres of fuel, some oil etc the curb weight is only 10kg more at 185kg. This doesn't add up. Fingers crossed 185kg curb is the true figure

[@MotorDanko]

You are not exited because maybe you don't live in europe where you have to ride 2 years with a 48hp bike... for here, for europe, this bike fills a space were we only have wannabe adventure bikes, heavy, slow, barely good quality... this bike changes everything... and also is VERY cheap at about 7K for one... if you want a 790 2023 you have to put down about 11K... do you think i will have that much more fun for 4k more? and i had a 790 already, and i would buy this 48hp, 270° crank and 180-185kg wet every day before a 790, or a 890, or a T7 for 40% more money... also the 701 or 690 costs like 11-12k aswell... still 4k to 5k more that you can spend on other stuf... if power limitation and/or price is not your concern, you are not the public for this bike... me personally, i even had a 160hp ducati mts, and i would still preffer to spend 30% on this CFmoto 450 because i can go every day wide open throttle without killing my self. and, damn, this is getting long... is difficult to lower a bike weight, because it is a twin engine, the size different from a 450 engine to a 700 engine could be milimeters of bore and stroke, but the suspension, brakes, chasis need to be able to stand the same abuse at 100-120kmh hitting something so the elements have to be equally big on both... the reason why the 690-701 is lighter is because the rear half of the bike is a plastic subchasis tank... not suitable for luggage, or two up.

[@yufoh7753]

People forget when Suzuki's SV650 came out it was 69HP, 165kg dry and did 0-60mph in the same time as the R1 of that era. Put a different end can on it and drop another few kg's. When I see these weights on the newer, small bikes, they seem very heavy. Still own and love my 1999 SV650 after 23 years and it's still going as well as the day I bought it and looking like a 3 year old bike. I wonder how these Chinese bikes will hold up over the years, quality wise?

[@eddale5557]

Wel i have a Cfmoto ATV 1000 cc and it have worked without any issues the last 2 years and the Cfmoto 450 MT have a KTM eingine so it wil work for ages.

[@maxflight777]

I find your channel compelling ! (Well done for the fitness workouts .. I’m trying to get my two teenage sons into weights and health ) Collecting my 701 from Lisbon this Monday.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Hey Max! I've read your comments but I'm replying to you now in a hurry, leaving for the airport in an hour for a week in Alicante :D Happy to hear you're enjoying my channel. You can hire me for a month and I'll come train your sons and show them how amazing life can be when you have a physically capablde body ;) Good luck with your 701. Do you live in Lisbon? Based on your picture and name I'm assuming you're a pilot of some sort!

[@daveo9844]

Rode one today. Fantastic and a no brainer for the price. Put my deposit down 🍻

[@willyd-adv]

Same weight as a bmw f650gs dakar which was a single. I rode one around the world and was too heavy for it's power. Was hoping the MT would be a little lighter personally but as it'll ride so much better than the ond f650 I'm going to buy the MT.

[@marxteven]

I mean, it's an adventure bike. all of them just have a pretense of offroad but they are touring motorcycles first then dual sport second.

[@RichardS-qh8mi]

Think the interesting thing is what new owners are saying - that despite its 190+ kg weight it’s the way it carries this weight that is surprisingly good. Some have said the difference is very noticeable between the MT and all the bigger capacity middleweight ADVs. To hear Tuareg owners saying this really surprised me, as on paper there is only around 15 - 20kg difference or is it? Think the reality is even the just 200kg + middleweights ADVs are considerably heavier than the manufacturers tell you they are. 20 - 30kgs + plus is a very noticeable figure between any bike no mater what it’s purpose.

[@jfcuylits1759]

I just tested the ducati 698 hypermot, mono cylinder feeling like a twin, 75hp, 150kg, good suspension and it’s just amazing on the road compared to 701 or even T7. I hope ducati will do an enduro version of it and then we finally have the unicorn.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Ohh that's interesting! I'm absolutely sure they'll make an offroad version.

[@Halligan37]

Journalists and motorcycle manufacturers sometimes overlook three groups that can form a Ven Diagram of sorts: 1. Newer riders 2. Older riders 3. Shorter riders. The CFMoto 450 Ibex is gonna do well because someone realized it and has built it.

[@kymcopyriot9776]

Thanks Johannes for having us along on your walk. I, too, am I excited about the CFMoto. What I’m excited about is that knitted woollen adventure helmet you’re wearing. Where can I get one of those? 😊

[@NZCycletherapy]

Give your self some credit, you are a good vlogger, well presented.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Appreciate that Guy, thanks for watching!

[@DavidKD2050]

Completely agree 👍. Some people will love it for the price. Others, like me, would rather pay more to loose 15kg off it. If the upcoming 2025 Ktm 390 adventure should come in under 180, perhaps 175kg. This is ideal as with a few modifications you can get rid of about 5kg.

[@ruankotze1044]

I just ride my motorcycle. Don't really carry it anywhere. Makes it much easier.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Came home from a weekend ride with the guys and I had to carry several bikes, but I get your point ;)

[@Kaiwora]

You can find out for us about what many riders say aboit how cfmoto has got it with the weight: it may be 195kgs wet, but it FEELS like the 175kgs.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Rode it in Portugal a month ago, it definitely feels more like 175 than 195! I really liked it. If I took this youtube thing somewhat seriously I should have made a follow-up video about it..

[@TheCunneen]

Yeah I have the same opinion. I was enthusiastic to see a small Ptwin adventure bike with a lower seat height. Until realising that it was dry weight. 175kg + 15 for fuel + 6 for other fluids an you're at 196kg my 100hp ktm890 is 199kg with a few lightweight mods and it's got a lower CG . So I'll be sticking with the 890 even though I often can't touch the ground

[@dennisxf9300]

I’m excited I can’t wait to test ride one and if all goes well I’ll buy one

[@MrTmax74]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, brother from across the sea. 😅. Yeah, I think the unicorn that most adventure riders have imagined would be lighter than this. But I think they will sell way more units by doing what they did. From everything I can tell, it's going to be a fully capable machine. Decent RPMs on the freeway, 0 to 60 of about 5.3 seconds, and an approachable seat with a very smooth engine. I figure it will be right around 420 to 425 lb wet. That's reasonable to pick up. A lot better than my 485 lb V-Strom that I used to ride on dirt lol. I think that when it comes to the real world, we're going to be impressed. And being so well equipped at $6,500 is pretty amazing. Personally, I would never buy something like the t7. Simply because as such a high center of gravity. And it really bugs me that there's so many motorcycles in that 10 to $12,000 range that don't offer you cruise control. That really bothers me. I think it's just companies trying to steer you to their more expensive models. If I spend $6,500 on a small adventure bike, I certainly won't expect cruise lol

[@JohannesDalenMC]

And thank you for listening! Absolutely, besides the weight, which seems to be on purpose to meet A2 licensing in Europe, this bike has a lot going for it - well equipped at a serious price. Reminds me of a 390 adventure, just larger.

[@MotoGuzziMoto]

I just hope Yamaha bring out a Tenere 500 twin and a modern XT500 dual-sport from the same platform (styled on the original black silver model). I would downsize my T7 for that.

[@ryanbrandenburg1882]

Tenere 500 with 50hp or so with a few less pounds would be nice.

[@kylenewman7101]

Same here!

[@MujoNovak]

I was exited, couse its really good looking, but then I saw... weight. I will just stick with my CB500X for a while.

[@ozibeno4574]

Hey that was good observation. Moreover it's not just the 17kg of the fuel you also need to add the oil and the coolant. So yes you are even more right than what you think 😊 it would hit the 200kg mark. And that makes it a very very heavy bike for the displacement.

[@dw5523]

I get your point about weight, but putting the same lithium battery and new exhaust on will do the same thing for the 450mt as the T7. For me, it will depend on how easy the maintenance will be - e.g. where the air filter is, accessing the cylinder head, etc. This will inform whether I buy the CFMoto or the HImalayan 450, or just keep my KLR (which is cake for maintenance). I'll always choose simplicity over performance.

[@enriquejaimes3368]

It seems like a nice bike, however, I will keep my DR650. Bomb proof reliability is a big deal.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

If I could get my hands on a somewhat new, not very high mileage DR650 I'd buy it in a heartbeat! Are yours stock or any mods?

[@MotoRidesVietnam]

I would strongly consider selling my CB500X if this becomes available in Vietnam. Looks like a great in between for road and all the offroad I like to mix up. I've modded my CB500X for offroad and really pushed it to its limits, but the wheel size and suspension really holds it back, not to mention she's a bit bulky compared to the look of this CF MOTO. Keen to hear about reliability of the bike if anyone knows.

[@060racing8]

Although the CF Moto 450 Mt is heavier than we would like it to be . It's not always about weight it has an engine half the size of most ADV bikes, meaning there is less reciprocating mass, meaning to bike will feel whiter and more nimble. If you don't believe me, ride a 450f and then a 250f mx bike only a small difference in weight dramatically different. handling

[@burddog0792]

The Versys 300 is sill sold here in the U.S. Year or two I reckon it'll be refreshed with the 399cc engine. It'll probably weigh 180-185kg, but probably save 5-10kg by ditching the huge whale tail, anchor exhaust, and metal tank.

[@nscott26]

I love my Tuareg 660 however I'm looking for something a little lighter that doesn't sacrifice much on rode comfort to get to the off road stuff. The CFMoto 450 looks promising and being inexpensive you can do some mods to save weight, but with the new 400cc ish twin from Aprilia will they make a mini Tuareg and will that be the unicorn we are waiting for?? 🤔

[@appymarley]

No

[@Angry-Lynx]

Kove 800 my Man. All I'm gonna say .. My AT is going under hammer soon

[@adaptableadventurerider]

Really interesting video Johannes an very interesting points :) doggo ftw as well. Weve come to a very similar conclusion. Its the same sort of thing that put me off the new 450 Himalayan the weight of it. Im interested to see the new 400 ktm next year although the exhaust location i hope they change as its right under the right footrest. The other aspect like the 300 Rally i had when you start sorting suspension, crash bars etc quickly aproaches the cost of the 790 adventure thats MIC. I got a look at Norden 901, 790 an 890 /890r over the past few days, Found the Norden Expedition to tall with the seat combo for my nerve injury, the normal 901 ok although it felt quite wide, 890r i was ok on, one foot, tip toes with both narrower seat helped for me at least compared to the Expedition, super liked the standard seat height on the 790/890 utterly suprised me how light it felt off the stand pushing and sitting on it, (with having owned the 390s) Im very torn between the 890 variants an norden 901 base model. An my dad likes the ktm 890/790 a friend of mine had to replace his left hand switch gear took 2 hours each side of replacment and 38 fasteners or so on the Norden! So thats given us something to think about. Must admit i really did like the low seat height on the 790/890 as well an the new dash. Hopefully some test rides at some point. Its a shame the Japanese arnt really bringing the design ethos yamaha had with the rd350lc in the 1980s. Its fun to see some new bikes coming out as you say :) at the moment. Hope the snow melts soon for you :)

[@alextwenty78]

According to the internet, in 1987 first generation of Honda Transalp 600 had 175 kg of dry weight. With big V-twin engine. Why nobody can't bit it now 🤔

[@BrakeMagazine]

That's actually pretty easy to answer by riding older bikes. Simply put, performance. At present, to make things work better, they need to be stiffer. Stiffness, to a certain point, creates precision and power. To be good on the road bikes need some stiffness, To be good off-road they need some. Brakes need to be a little bigger, discs a little bigger. To make bugger, stiffer things light, you need more money for fancier materials. When you ride old ADV bikes they're really flex. Like wildly so. The bounce around a lot, are imprecise and mostly made of thing steel frames. The brakes are small and crap, the engines slower and the suspension unsophisticated. Some of that is also trends. Some ADV bikes come with bigger forks to look good, but junk internals. Some have radial brakes and almost certainly don't need them. But the point is, if you want light and you want strong, you have to pay a lot more than the market wants.

[@josealbertofavela1101]

Buen punto de vista!saludos desde morelia mich.mexico 👍

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Gracias!

[@Prestonesfpv]

I think its a great entry ADV bike, see it as a better equiped CB500X, then it makes really good sense 👍

[@drzrider3440]

My opinion is what is in the works with them....they have been developing a 500cc engine....which could end up in a 500MT. Maybe? Anyway, I love the bike, and I will be one of the first to own one on the Seattle, Washington area. As I have an "in" with my local dealer that gives my club new KTM's to give away at our meet ups. I like it. I like it alot. Its not the KTM490 adventure we all were hoping for. But keep in mind, who runs a full tank? Yes it the start of your ride, but it will always be getting lighter as you ride. Would have been nice to see 50HP. But maybe the 500 will give us that and more. I will be glad to serve as the test dummy on this bike. I have 3 CF Moto dealers near me, so im good as far as parts. Speaking of parts, most will remove that heavy exhaust and save a ton there. Just need enough power to do the speed limit in every state which is 80mph. If I cane cruise at 80 mph as easy as I can on my fully loaded DRZ400, than im sold. Cause it weighs enough to help stop the buffeting that happens behind large vehicles at speed. Has enough to do nearly anything in the dirt, at least what I can do. So for some. Yes still too heavy and under powered. For me. I can always add power mods to it and lighten it up to suite my needs. And same price as a DRZ400....Suzuki better step it up.

[@fun2rideadventure]

I had Yamaha XT660Z Tenere 2008 model with 183 Kg dry weight 48 hp ... i did alot of EU trips....alot of enjoyment....heaving now xt1200 (ECU limitations removed) and I did very limited number of km rides .... so exited of CFMoto 450 ... crazy price 6800Eur approx .... Yes, Kove will the best at 8k Eur approx... You have to ride them ... the rest is jus theories :) ....

[@glossblack1098]

Regarding the BMW 900, the base / enduro model looks awesome, but only has a 14 L fuel tank. Would prefer 17-19 L. Adventure model is 24 L, but prefer the lighter, narrower base model. Cheers

[@_UserUser_]

You all have confused the liters with the kilos. 17,5 liters of fuel is around 13 kilos, so that is in total 175+13=188 kilos...

[@wb4367]

The 450MT feels like it weighs 50kg less than a T7. It feels like the XT600 I have and that weighs 160kg. CoG is key. The overall size of the MT ist also alot smaller than the typical 200kg bikes. I have ridden it for an hour and was really impressed. I can get myself to buy chinese products in this price area right now, sadly.

[@randymcgiveron3268]

We have to wait till some tests come out. It'll all depend on the center of gravity and how the bike feels, plus overall fit and finish. As a cb500x owner, I love the sound of the CFmoto. I'm just concerned about parts availability and overall longevity.

[@markfenlon7049]

The problem with these types of video, commentators haven't seen and/or ridden the bike(s). So criticism is highly speculative. It's useful to compare bike specs, e.g. the CF MT450 wet weight Royal's Him 452 is near same, 4hp more than the Him's single. Does this matter; Depends on individual preference. Once these 2 bikes (and similar) are ridden in comparative long term tests, then we'll know more. I'm holding off ordering a Him 452 until we know more about the new upcoming alternatives.

[@SamiNami]

I agree that the Versys-x 300 was amazing. I miss that bike.

[@randycallow3736]

What is left out is a completely different business model, people who buy are either ok with or don't understand dealership support, parts and service. The products may be okay but a 450 will have a service interval that is going to be even higher when you go 200lbs pound rider, small amount of gear and 200-300 miles of highway and all the things that bend, break or fall off or just wear out from off road use .I live primarily in Northern Baja and seldom see exotics or Chinese bikes used w success. Mexico makes a couple of brands that are now Mexican but were knocked off from Korea and China..Italika is the most popular, used extensively for everything,food delivery, personal transportation and thousands of other things, always in an urban environment where mechanics are plentiful and lots of support for new parts and failed donor bikes all over the country.. many mechanics will have @5-10+ dead 125s and 250cc to grab a part from.. but Pepsi, Coke and big companies buy Honda or other Japanese brand for build quality and reliability, Japanese brands are noticably more expensive than Mexican, Indian and Chinese bikes that are widely available. I like what I see from China but see immediate pitfalls of trying to be high tech instead of old school for parts and service.. down on Baja peninsula or somewhere else.. for Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki you can find a mechanic and parts.. and they are a phone call and UPS, FedEx or DHL delivery away.. so if you are a wannabe and don't plan adventure out of your town cool but gotta wonder what it's like calling a CFMoto dealership and saying I need a case cover or failed axle parts or electric part. And for the record the biggest brand failure, often not a stop in travel is from KTM LCD and other electronics that stop working while in the middle of nowhere.. and same story.. no mechanic has a $5-800 display on the shelf

[@OFFroadOFFcourse]

My friend! The problem is even worse... dry weight doesnt mean just an empty fuel tank... it means no oil, no coolant, some times not even a battery! So it will be more like 175 +15kg +fuel :/

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Oh no! I can live with the fact that "dry" means no fluids, but no battery? Madness!

[@OFFroadOFFcourse]

@@JohannesDalenMC i have even heard that some brands dont even consider the tire weight :o buuuut none of this is "knowledge", its just internet gossip so take it with a big grain of salt 😅

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Everything on the internet is gossip and should be taken with loads of salt! By the way I've been meaning to tell you, last time I was in Portugal with you I weighed 100kg - now I'm down to only 75kg, dry that is..

[@OFFroadOFFcourse]

Confirmed: 195.5kg with 17.5L in it. Ready to roll

[@michalczajkowski8798]

You can change the battery amd exhoust in CF moto as well so you get lower weight

[@roadstrom]

I was considering buying one , but i think I'll keep my V-Strom 650

[@wickedleeloopy2115]

If you want lighter bikes , stick with the single cylinder engines. But if you want multi cylinders for highway , you will be adding concidered more weight. The ktm 690 is as close as you are going to get to being both .

[@hassanshahbazi8490]

Thanks

[@paveldariusbogdan4367]

Hello tehre , i am wondering what you thing about the new royal enfiled himalayan 450? :D

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Hello there Pavel! I haven't ridden the new one, I haven't even ridden the old one.. They don't seem to be all that popular around here..

[@ObjectiveLens-c9b]

As roads become congested particularly around cities a light 250cc or 450cc will be king. my crf250l i found is more than enough for city riding but a 450 would definitely be good two up ride.

[@tieoneon1614]

What I cant understand is all the hype towards the bigger/heavier/higher HP ADV bikes when 95% of its buyers have zero offroad skill; and are older, out of shape, and would get seriously hurt in a crash offroad so a gravel road is the only offroad it every see's. The Desert X, 890, T7 and Touareg are too expensive for younger riders to seriously thrash offroad. Iv been there, done that and have 10x more fun on lighter 250/300 or DRZ/XR dual sports for 1/3 of the price. And can haul them in a truck allowing u to bring all your camping gear, food, booze making camping 10x more enjoyable also. Loading down an ADV bike still skimps on almost everything and makes the ride there unenjoyable. I think for practicality the EFI KLR and this Ibex 450 would suite most ADV riders needs without the need for annoying trac control and electronic BS so Im pumped for it, even though Im not in the market cuz I have my dual sport set up for exactly what I need.

[@MfrOffroadRiderNorCal]

They should never put the dry weight it’s being deceitful but that said I’m very interested in the Ibex 450 MT

[@ruthelindalen5489]

Love your dog and your balaklava!

[@JBean_COCR]

Thanks Johannes, I'm also disappointed about weight for Ibex. At 178 cm and 67 years, I want something lower and easy to pick up, and the price is great, more to spend on safety gear updates. My last bike was an ADV'd 690R, and although I could pick it up the reach to the ground was a bit much for me, so looking at the 450 or maybe the Kove 800? Thanks for the info.

[@adrip4177]

In the old days (2010-2013) Aprilia made an RXV450i and even an RXV550i. The 450 weighing 120 kg dry and having 60HP. Reliability was crap apparently but they were on to something. @BrakeMagazine: not sure whether the frame, brake and suspension was as useless as with the first Transalp (don’t think so given the 20 odd years of technical development between them).

[@davidmallia628]

The CFmoto fills a gap. And the Kove 800 will kill the the T7. Otherwise get a KTM 790/890 to avoid the boring workouts, everyday, to be able to handle the absurd weight distribution of the T7. Transalp is nice alternative but to access the air filter you need to dismantle half the bike, no cruise control, no tubeless tires. The T7 could have been an ideal bike if you did not have to workout at the gym, ritually, everyday.

[@jurassic690]

Interesting conversation. I've been planning to get a lightweight adventure bike in the future and had been looking initially at the CRF but I've also recently noticed the Voge 300 and done a bit of research on that bike. Obviously it's very early days but there's virtually no bad comments from owners about them and they're way cheaper than the CRF (and arguably better straight out of the showroom). I know that Chinese bikes have had a lot of bad press in the past but it's starting to look like the latest offerings from some of the Chinese manufacturers are pretty good. I'm adding the CFMoto to my list of bikes to consider, I'd lose some offroad ability I'm sure but gain on the road compared to the singles on my shortlist. I'll not be buying anything until they've proven themselves a bit though (I already made that mistake beta testing an early KTM 690 which was pretty unreliable).

[@jeffreystivala3386]

Totally agree with you, looking forward to see the Kove 450 Rally

[@jonwoodworker]

Your not interested in this but you are interested in junk like the Kove? Wow.

[@BraapTales]

@@jonwoodworker Kove is not junk. See my review.

[@jonwoodworker]

@@BraapTales I've seen all the reviews, I've seen all the hype, I've seen the disaster at Dakar. You can keep telling people how good it is, but doesn't mean it is. There are several issues with the bike that many have shown on YT but they gloss over them like they don't exist. At least CFMOTO is a proven brand putting a proven engine on the MT/Ibex 450. And I don't want a full fairing desert bike when I'm dual sport riding in the woods. For $9k I'll spend an extra $1k for the CRF450 now that they fixed the ecu, and run circles around the Kove.

[@BraapTales]

@@jonwoodworker You can keep telling people how bad it is, but doesn't mean it is. If you are only going to ride in the woods, it's not the ideal bike. I will agree there.

[@natekerx85]

⁠@@jonwoodworkerMason Klein went up against a handful of factory teams with race r&d, crack mechanics and huge budgets. He had a Kove, his dad and his uncle. Nachos Honda blew up and HRC has 1000x more r&d and race support. Kove did fine in Dakar two years in a row and I’m gonna guess people looking at the Kove 450 are a little short of Mason Klein riding ability. Also keep dreaming is you think the crf450 is done flaming out and busting balls. No one but beta makes a 4t ready to blast from the factory because they’ll never meet emissions.

[@krazed0451]

I'm certainly more interested in the specs of the Kove 800x Rally, but it's double the price of the 450MT!

[@sawdog007]

Is it worth saving the 30 pounds of weight and sacrificing 35 to 40 horsepower over one of the mid-weight bikes. I am an average adventure rider and excited to see this bike coming on the market soon but don't think I will be giving up my CRF 300 Rally for this one. One underwhelming bike for another underwhelming bike makes no sense. I will be getting a Honda Transalp or the KTM 790S so when I am on the freeway going to out of state BDR routes I can have more comfort and don't have to push the bike so hard to keep up with traffic. One thing this bike should do is give us more choices to fit the buyer's needs and make manufacturers step up to do a better job of giving us better products.

[@jmsmikey]

CFMOTO should give you one of these to demo for a year~ maybe it will win you over. I think I will buy one to explore the desert areas around Las Vegas~ if I get one you are welcome to borrow it if you visit Nevada.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

That would have been really cool, both having one as a loaner and visiting you and ride yours. I've seen some videos from Nevada, basically unlimited trails right?

[@jakubwszolek1314]

Hej! Dropped off my 1250GS for the yearly checkup and caught a sneak peek of the F900GS at the BMW place. They're probably unveiling it officially next week. It looks cool but I'm still debating if it beats the KTM 890 Adv R. The fuel tank's big, great for knee protection, but honestly, it's a bit too bulky for my taste when off-roading. BMW's detail and quality are always spot-on, though. Still, not sure I'd swap my 1250GS for it. Looks like I'll keep the 1250GS and H701 for now. Can't wait to see what you think of the F900GS in your review next week. Hoping for this snow to clear up soon!:) Cheers!

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Hello there! Yes, the official launch is saturday 24th, although it's been showed on several shows already. I think it will be a popular bike, I have no doubt that it is an excellent bike for both road and offroad, but choosing it over the 890r as you mention? Tough decision! I will ride it as soon as the dealer allows me - cheers Jakub!

[@MLeitao]

@@JohannesDalenMC it feels top heavy like the T7, was the first feeling that i have, so not so good, we have a bunch of them in event in January in Algarve, i like it but...

[@zoninable]

Hello Johannes the PR7 is the best weight in the mid size class. I would take the PR7 over the Kove any day.

[@Chooky88]

If you had a lot of money and could afford any bike. Sure you'd look at other options. But value for money the CF450 Mt can't be beaten. Unkess you prefer a thumper like the Enfield.

[@JohannesDalenMC]

Test rode this bike in Portugal last week and it surprised me, like a baby T7. In Norway it isn't cheap unfortunately and besides the flexible engine and great weight carrying characteristics the price is what this bike's got going for it. In Norway you'll get a used T7 for the price of the cfmoto 450..

[@ridelifenz]

This bikes got alot going for it, and as an entry level adv price point its the 490 that ktm didnt build. Its basically a rebranded cheap chinese ktm. All KTMs are soon to be chinese (790/890) so this is a sign of whats to come. Low seat and twin cylinder will be nice for a lot of people. The weight also comfy on road but may need more maintenace. Im picking up cheap used T7 instead..low ks, suspension work all done...same price of a honda 300l...used market winning.

[@adv_rider]

kove 800x is 185kg fully fueled (curb weight at least in their spec sheets). Seems like a much better option as it is 800cc

[@JohannesDalenMC]

It does seem like you get more CC for the weight, definitely. I guess it depend on the price of the 800x as well, the ibex 450 is a real bargain!

[@giuliobuccini208]

With a lithium battery and a new muffler probably you can take out 5 or 6 Kg from that weight. I'm waiting for the Ibex. I'm also interested in the Kove 450 Rally, but it would be wasted for a guy like me. I'm not Chris Birch... 😊

[@hellochriis]

Which other twin cylinder ADV bike is lighter?

[@eddale5557]

None as i know of in the 450 cc marked.

[@BraapTales]

It really looks like they are sacrificing offroad performance on this bike. I guess they see it as an entry-level competitor to the T7 or Tuareg, and the new Himalayan and 390 Adventure. Mostly for beginners or people on a tight budget. Certainly not a competitor for lighter bikes with stronger offroad performance. Anyway, when it comes to adventure bikes, the Kove 800 Rally looks like the best right now.

[@greglenoir7674]

I want one!

[@cougar-ii627]

What if you put a lithium battery and change the pipe on the 450MT, that would bring it back to roughly 175kg? Maybe 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@robertradizlovic8575]

That's right. I think the same