I Need A Mac To Go With My iPhone - WAN Show November 1, 2024

[@NoKi1119]

-Timestamps- [0:00] *Chapters.* [1:37] *Intro.* [2:07] *Topic #1: Apple reveals M4 chips, iMac & Mac mini refreshed.* > 3:46 Linus tries to config a Mac, Luke builds a PC equivalent. > 18:16 Options, "not enough RAM," Linus mentions the mouse port. > 21:14 Absurd storage price, Luke's build progress. [28:15] *Topic #2: Beth Le's Steam Deck sized Framework device.* [33:09] *Topic #3: Dammit Jeff mods Spotify's Car Thing with CFW.* > 35:22 Car Thing's price spike on eBay. [36:49] *LTTStore's new WAN cork board.* [40:13] *Floatplane exclusives for November.* > 41:58] Anker & LTT endorsement update. [42:46] *Merch Messages #1.* > 42:54 Thoughts on Clair Obscur: Expedition 33? > 46:12 Did you watch Geerling's precision screwdriver review? [50:54] *Topic #4: Judges use risk algorithms to justify lower stake cases.* > 56:12 Taxes, Luke recalls helicopter deer hunting. > 58:56 Surrey schools' staggered days, tourist attraction idea. > 1:01:05 The Cobra effect, deer species. [1:04:18] *Sponsors.* > 1:04:26 Manscaped. > 1:05:26 1Password. > 1:06:41 Squarespace. [1:07:44] *Merch Messages #2 ft. Tier list next WAN, Dennis's interview.* > 1:13:10 How to know when a game is ready for a public beta? > 1:15:58 How are the Ozlo sleep buds? ft. Pool video, analytics. [1:26:57] *Topic #5: iFixit wins a DMCA exemption for ice cream machines.* > 1:29:26 Luke's firefighter brother cooks all meals. [1:30:33] *Topic #6: Congo teacher responds to Linus hurting Congo.* > 1:35:24 His lesson worked, photo samples of the commuter backpack. > 1:36:44 Past teachers stories. [1:38:54] *Topic #7: Instagram lowers the quality of less popular videos.* [1:42:10] *Topic #8: Decart's Oasis, playable AI generated Minecraft.* > 1:42:38 Linus gets hurt on set and in David's upgrade video. > 1:45:16 Trying out Oasis, thoughts on the model. [1:52:55] *Topic #9: Strava, a fitness app, exposes locations of leaders.* [1:55:46] *Topic #10: KZbin "removes" view counts due to extensions.* > 1:57:26 Netflix lacks data, Plex's difficulty, evergreen content. > 2:02:56 Luke mentions WAN Show VODs being out of date. > 2:03:57 Kyle's short bugged out with Linus, final thoughts. [2:07:34] *Merch Messages #3 ft. After Dark.* > 2:09:26 Thoughts on the bigger UI trend? > 2:13:17 Interested in QDOLED monitors, worried over purple hue. > 2:15:26 Do you think the 9800X3D would be the best? > 2:16:01 How close was Linus to walking out of the Yard? > 2:24:00 How would Linus pitch higher education to his children? > 2:37:47 Would time be better spent on R&D, or implementation policy? > 2:38:48 How do I explain cheap PCs won't do what a customer wants? > 2:40:17 Precision screwdrivers & PTM7950 when? [2:41:34] *Outro.* Side note: donations are in my channel's about page, thanks!

[@sumesh-kumar]

gotta make this to the top. Linus please pin.

[@dtsybulskyi]

Thanks, you're a legend!

[@ViniciusMiguel1988]

Took me 5 minutes scrolling to find timestamps

[@JakeRayTM]

Why is this not showing up in Top comment sorting...

[@westingham]

@@NoKi1119 Thank you!

[@roflmagister5]

[02:12] 1. Apple Mac Mini M4 [28:23] 2. Modder Things: The "Beth Deck" [33:11] 3. Modder Things: Custom Firmware for Spotify's CarThing [37:47] 4. WAN Show Corkboard [40:17] 5. Floatplane November Update [42:52] 6. Q&A [50:57] 7a. Judges are using AI to judge if bail/parole should be granted [55:47] 7b. Going off on a tangent: Inefficient use of taxes [59:00] 7c. Surrey school: staggered school days [1:01:32] 7d. Cobrahead argument [1:04:26] 8. Sponsors [1:08:20] 9. Work interviews [1:13:09] 10. Q&A [1:27:04] 11. McDonalds soft serve machines / Right to Repair [1:31:32] 12. Update on the Congo attack ad (reference to last week's WAN Show) [1:39:00] 13. Instagram lowering quality on unpopular clips [1:42:16] 14. AI-based Minecraft [1:53:00] 15. Tracking world leaders thanks to STRAVA (fitness tracker gadget) [1:55:53] 16. KZbin videos missing viewcounts [2:07:41] 17. Q&A, but after dark [52:51, 52:56, 56:42, 59:01, 2:41:52] Bust a nut

[@RomanticFox47]

@@roflmagister5 hahahahaha the last ones

[@ZeusEKR]

Thanks my man!

[@LuckyStrikeTech]

Goated bottom time stamps 😂

[@hydroweapon]

Loool

[@bedro_0]

this made me fail no nut november

[@cloverfallfarm]

As a literacy specialist and high school LA teacher - thank you for your commentary. You are 100% right, in that just having people read for the enjoyment of i tis way more beneficial than forcing a particular content. I actually DO still include silent reading time in my class periods, yes in high school, to save space for this!

[@izRiprod]

DeskThing developer here! I love the shoutout Genuinely made my year - you have no idea

[@joseeduardorussoperis4668]

@@izRiprod congratulations on the awesome idea btw

[@SmoothieD00d]

I saw the DJ video this week, but seeing the coverage on WAN is insane.

[@bedro_0]

amen

[@AtomicLava]

Congrats on getting the shoutout! You deserve it given how much work you've put into DeskThing lol

[@izRiprod]

@@joseeduardorussoperis4668Thank you! It’s been a fun passion project Def flew way out of scope - I think I just passed 1M lines of code a month or so ago @.@

[@duffman7674]

You can buy two Mac minis with 16GB/256GB each for the price it costs to upgrade a single one to 32GB/512GB

[@alexbuckenham1663]

That is actually insane and shows even the most ardent apple defender that the upgrades are indefensibly priced

[@WayStedYou]

Apple really taking the piss

[@qwfp]

I guess it's time to fill up a server rack with Mac minis. A Mac Mini Cluster

[@AvgSkillGamer]

They don't have a 32gb ram option on the website

[@duffman7674]

@@AvgSkillGamer yes they do, you can configure it after selecting a base configuration.

[@caboose_is_god5115]

Oh timestamp man, we pray for your return

[@tylerwright4254]

The first thing I did was look for their comment :C

[@justinv3080]

I posted a try at it, definitely an amature 😂

[@Sal51983]

Noki timestamps are in the comments, he actually posted them at about the same time as your comment but youtube shadowbans it everytime. So you can only see his comment if you sort the comments by newest instead of the default top comments (because top comments doesn't show everything). Generally every week you can scroll back to roughly the time the show ended ( once you sort it by newest comments) and you'll find his comment every time until it gets pinned! I just load them all and ctrl + f and search noki and boom problem solved. Its how i found this comment as well.

[@Zigg33]

If i don't find the time stamp guy's comment i just skip the wan show. it's too long. sadly

[@Sal51983]

@@Zigg33 Noki timestamps are in the comments, he actually posted them 6 hours before your comment but youtube shadowbans it everytime. So you can only see his comment if you sort the comments by newest instead of the default top comments (because top comments doesn't show everything). Generally every week you can scroll back to roughly the time the show ended ( once you sort it by newest comments) and you'll find his comment every until it gets pinned! I just load them all and ctrl + f and search noki and boom problem solved.

[@kramvk]

The most insane thing about the Mac Mini is its unbelievably low power consumption. If I remember it’s about 2-3w standby, 6w idle and maxes out at like 35w full draw.

[@Jorda5s]

If that’s true that’s wild basically uses same amount of powers as a iPad with much more utility

[@nickd7935]

@@Jorda5s thats because its literally the same chip as the ipad

[@NightRogue77]

I think what’s insane is the cost alongside shared DRAM/VRAM Know what else is crazy? Apple cut huge swaths of money out of their production costs with their M chips. I wonder what happened to that massive savings from all that “vertical integration?”

[@andriiteselko]

@@NightRogue77i think whats insane is having intel/amd coming out with a generational DOWNGRADE (sure, sure, spare me the “efficiency” improvements, on chips consuming 300W, now consuming 250 or whatever, color me unimpressed), ajd still dumping on Apple that actually achieved 15-30% generational UPLIFT while still being just as low energy consuming Perhaps this is where all that sweet sweet profit goes Actual R&D Sure, pockets have to be lined as well, but never forget how the m1 and its’ successors dragged the entire x86 laptop industry on the floor by their “space heater” ankles For all apple’s greedy practices, they don’t spend LITERAL TENS OF BILLIONS on R&D and still come up with nothing Innovation slowdown? Spare me It’s everywhere No one’s truly inventing 500x generational improvements Nanometers dont jump down from 28nm to 7nm in the span of a few years Quite hard to squeeze out any extra performance these days So let’s get real here and just enjoy the meaningful updates that we still have

[@RedGryz]

​@@NightRogue77 Hmm, gee, I dunno. Last I checked the Intel Mac Minis launched at $799, whereas the M series Mac Minis have been holding steady at $599. Bash Apple all ya like, but can ya do it with an accurate critique, please?

[@Sedowynt]

Honestly after listening to Dan and "The Talent" talk about books. Their discussion really opened my eyes and made me realize that I don't actually hate reading books. I hate consuming content in general. It makes me feel guilty, thinking I could be doing something way more productive. Like yeah cool video, if I didn't spend all that time watching it, I'm pretty sure I could've put together a banger like that.

[@Frustratedfool]

My 69 year old brother never read a book that was not technical into his late 50’s. I bought him an audiobook (The Magicians Guild) and he kicked and bucked that ‘this isn’t my thing’. But I told him to just try. 10 years later he has over 100 audiobooks in his library and loves fantasy and has been through Charles dickens books several times. There is a book out there for you that WILL change your perspective and life.

[@jurvinx9939]

2:25:00 shocked me so much that I stopped playing trackmania and grabbed a book off the shelf. Thanks Linus and Luke

[@Evildaddy911]

Speaking of teachers of varying quality - I had a calculus teacher who had never taught calculus before. Literally just read the textbook then do the excersises as they came up. Then I had a physics teacher. So being a public school, you couldn't have any sort of paywall when it came to grades. So this goat made this big huge final project where we would go to an amusement park and spend the day collecting data, then do a big report about our favourite ride from a physics standpoint. Applied for funding and exemptions so he could have this project take the place of our final exam and make it free for the students. We get to the park and he makes a big show of "oops, I grabbed the wrong bag this morning! Guess I don't have the project outline! Well, too late to go back and get it, guess we're just going to have to do a 1-page writeup about how awesome your day is going to be!"

[@johnsherby9130]

Used a huge amount of the governments money as well as an insane amount of planning and elaborate rouse just to take his class to the amusement park? I like this guys style.

[@spacebound1969]

​@@johnsherby9130Not like any of the students were going to remember anything from a physics class final anyways.

[@stupidjaosn]

i'm sure it's probably a lot more complicated than this, there's probably processes to get the teaching experience before being the primary teacher for a whole class, but, it just comes off funny to me to imply that it's a bad thing that it's a teacher's first time teaching. the experienced teachers had to have had a first time at some point, right?

[@gekquad116]

Physics teachers are goated. We did the EXACT same thing with an amusement park.

[@lfox02]

@@stupidjaosn Having had someone like this, there's definitely a difference between a first timer and somebody who reads _everything_ off of somebody else's material they haven't even skimmed through before class. It's bad when you have to listen to somebody yap off of something you can read way faster, it's worse when they actually know their stuff and they could tell you everything in the book and more off the top of their head.

[@MadScientistGuild]

i love how at 1:11:00 they are explain a use for cork boards but then just say okay then lets use a metal board and magnets rather then the product we JUST launched xD classic Linus

[@memediatek]

Everyone be asking where timestamp guy, but not how is timestamp guy? I hope you're doing alright Noki :)

[@shivashankar28]

@@memediatek yes, Hope the timestamp’s guy is doing fine :)

[@pootispiker2866]

​@@RegenTonnenEntePsychopath

[@BoSaGuy]

Yes. Wishing him the best. And if anyone has disposable income and wishes to spend it, he accepts donations. There’s should be a link if you click on his KZbin profile.

[@Sal51983]

Noki timestamps are in the comments, he actually posted them 2 hours before your comment but youtube shadowbans it everytime. So you can only see his comment if you sort the comments by newest instead of the default top comments (because top comments doesn't show everything). Generally every week you can scroll back to roughly the time the show ended ( once you sort it by newest comments) and you'll find his comment every time until it gets pinned! I just load them all and ctrl + f and search noki and boom problem solved. Its how i found this comment as well.

[@NoKi1119]

@@Sal51983 Or refer to the document listed in the about section to get the link to it! It probably got shadowbanned due to what Dennis had in the background of his interview, but there's no synonym for it.

[@awsomewe360]

2:28:00 On the topic of reading, I read "Charles Dickens Great Expectations", and it was soooooo hard to get through it. Thinking back on it, I can imagine for the time period it was set in, the story of this boy's life was actually something worth writing about, but in this day and age, someone with that kind of life would maybe get a paragraph in a lower rated local newspaper. Being spoiled with life today, and with the plot developments in modern TV, and even modern book media, you would expect something more to happen in the entire course of the book with how highly rated it is.

[@peter65zzfdfh]

The partial exemption for right to repair means the owners of the equipment can repair it, but the reason why it’s partial is it doesn’t cover selling tools to allow them to repair them. Basically a company made a device that let the machine be easily diagnosed. This is still not covered and restaurant owners probably can’t build that themselves. So the victory isn’t nearly as big as it seems, yes people can repair things theoretically, but they can’t be sold the required tools.

[@fujinshu]

What about *giving* tools? I do suspect there will be a black market of repair tools for franchisees to buy and use to repair their machines.

[@SlippyMcKnot8472]

Luke’s story about going on eBay to find a Spotify Car Thing halfway through Damnit Jeff’s video is hilarious! I did the exact same thing when I watched it, but quickly changed my mind after seeing the huge price increase. 😂”

[@zekkos8636]

I did the exact same thing during this VOD, I paused it and went looking on ebay. Then after seeing the price I came back, then they talked about the prices.

[@tankfu1]

My kids' school did the offset schedule. We built a new school across town and the population grew so fast that it was full by the time it was done being built. Offsetting the schedule helped with overcrowding during the school day and reduced traffic jams. My kids picked the early classes so they could get out early enough to work little jobs in the afternoons. When they started driving, it was even better because the traffic was lighter in the early mornings.

[@Junby666]

I think this was the first time i ever watched a Wan show all the way while it was live. Throughly enjoyed it.

[@gipugly]

Congrats! It's my third time watching all the way through.

[@smmmokin]

F....sorry you must wait 7 days.

[@H.O.D.M]

I started downloading them and listening to them on sports trips. Don’t agree with everything, but I do for 95% of it, and it’s always relevant Glad to hear you’re enjoying it :)

[@qandrshow-m7k]

Same here (I'm in EST 💀)

[@H.O.D.M]

@@qandrshow-m7kMan’s staying up to 11:30

[@peter65zzfdfh]

Having an online interview is extremely difficult to do during work hours without using a meeting room, with a sterilized background. Not everyone drives to work and can be in their car. Not everyone can get approval to have leave to attend an interview. There’s literally no other option a lot of the time. If you go outside where there’s busy traffic etc it’s going to be inaudible and unprofessional. If interviewers are insistent on that they need to schedule interviews well outside work hours.

[@SquintyGears]

I think the actual take away from that section was just to check the wall behind where you sat. Make sure it's as empty as possible. They can't tell if you're in a meeting room or at home or at school if it's just a white wall. Because the interviews are always going to be during business hours.

[@ZeroUm_]

I wouldn't use a meeting from a company I'm currently working for, for an interview, because it's amoral to me, unethical, nevermind it actually being grounds to be fired. If the company can't excuse me, being told in advance, for my personal reasons, they can go pound sand. Then again, I wouldn't be working there in the first place.

[@riecknicholas]

Yep, clearly been years since Linus has interviewed somewhere. Very tone deaf perspective

[@eskamobob8662]

I mean, ive done it and yes sometimes it can't be avoided, but it's useful to know that this is an extremely common view for hiring. Your background unfortunately plays a solid role in first impressions

[@zekkos8636]

​@@riecknicholasI'm not sure what you expect though? It doesn't matter if something isn't "right" or is unfair. If you are interviewing for a job and you don't present yourself in a way that's favorable to the interviewer you won't get the job. Though I personally do agree with Linus on this. Interviewing someone who is obviously in a meeting room for the company they currently work for feels a bit off, and if presented with two identical applicants except for their background I would pick the one in the environment that isn't obviously in another company's meeting room.

[@TayschrennSedai]

58:23 as a Michigander, I'm dying over here. Literally a county of our state has enough willing venison eaters that would have happily come out on the Canadian Government's transportation, and donated the food to the unhomed around the area. What the actual heck.

[@ThatBlindGuyShannon]

Thanks for doing these shows every week. Putting on my headphones and listening to you guys talk about technology and other random stuff sends me to my happy place. It's very relaxing so thank you.

[@Andris_Briedis]

1:59 Major Paine"" is very popular in post-Soviet countries. Like Rambo, Terminator, Chuck Norris (he doesn't walk. the earth turns in the direction he needs). Mainly because when the Iron Curtain opened, these films were on videocassettes with very, very, very bad translations. But was.

[@Raleford]

1:40:12 i have noticed even on KZbin some older videos seem to only have lower qualities available, even if they would've had higher available

[@McLovin0826]

2:41:50 LINUS ACCIDENTALLY BUS NUTTED ON STREAM

[@GermanMythbuster]

Probably Luke lending a hand 😂🤣

[@TheosTechTips]

Lol I can totally see it!

[@FiveToesTwoFeet]

hes a quick worker

[@GermanMythbuster]

Ivonne is too busy, Luke had to cover her shift :D

[@akosv96]

😫😩

[@tomcooney183]

"Marksmen from NZ" - We had a whole Industry of Helicopter Hunting Deer so we probably have some of the best at it in the world

[@realemmyrossum]

1:09:03 where you want someone to do an interview? What if someone has to go into the office everyday for the whole day.

[@santiagoalmiron9596]

They want you to take the day off to have the interview or have it from your car in the middle of the street with an unstable internet connection

[@realemmyrossum]

@ much more professional true. Or in a loud coffee shop. Better yet just drive all the way home during your lunch break, the only free time you have during the day and then drive back to the office

[@helloukw]

Thanks again for another great show. I have to admit you guys are my only "friends" as of late, so it brings me joy to be able to listen to you, DLL.

[@schoolbus6028]

I want to point out that in last week's WAN show, Luke suggested that the teacher may have been doing an in class assignment about media consumption/literacy. The only reason it wasn't treated like that was that according to Linus the reddit poster wrote in one of the comments that it wasn't a media literacy/consumption example/assignment. Basically it's not your fault Linus, you were given crappy information by the poster

[@ConorDrew]

It’s funny, as I’m with Luke. I’m dyslexic (didnt find out until university) and the first book I read was The hobbit, and the way it’s written is so easy to digest. I know it’s a children’s book and written with older language, but the way the story is told, it gets you hooked. Then you try LOTR and oh boy, that’s a different story, but the story and world building keeps you going.

[@uss_04]

The accounting and economics portion for my Pharm degree were classes I wouldn't have taken if not for it being needed as a prereq. The idea of opportunity costs still sticks to me to this day.

[@nakkajin]

100%! understanding how the economy works, even at a basic level, is really important for understanding how to make decisions as a human that lives in a capitalistic society.

[@uss_04]

@@nakkajin Not only money, but time as well. If i'm on vacation, and I can spend a few more bucks to get somewhere to give me 2 more hours at a place I want vs walking, I'll spend the money. Of course theres a limit to either, but theres always a cost to every choice.

[@Burty117]

Dunno if Linus still reads the comments, but as someone who went from Android to iOS last year, I found simply, completely cutting myself off my old phone forced me to actually learn iOS. Holding onto your old phone just means rather than figuring out how to do the same thing on iOS, you just fall back to your old phone. I'm yet to find anything major I could do before that I can't now, (except for letting Google answer phone calls, the new Voicemail system recently released does a good enough job though).

[@sweetmelon3365]

You can't download and install apks as you wish

[@elwoodcope7152]

Apple announcing the m4 chip, but I’m still enjoying my base model m1 air with 0 complaints.

[@steveballmersbaldspot2.095]

Same, 4 years in and still going strong.

[@darkshibe2267]

I had my Intel macbook pro for about 8 years before upgrading to M3Pro last yeah. Kinda planning to have it for a similar time.

[@jefflem]

Same it’s a great laptop. The only problem is the lack of ram but the M1 chip boots up the latest macOS very quickly

[@cameronleach5902]

@@jefflemhas the lack of ram ever actually held you back though? Like everyone says that 8gb is not enough, I’ve never had a single stutter despite over 4 years of near daily use.

[@OhJomiel]

@@elwoodcope7152 same! I just upgraded the ram to 16, but otherwise the base. Going strong

[@quinton1630]

I loved the “secrets shopping our own store” video. I even shared it with my partner! It was great.

[@Profato]

The Mac Mini goes from; "WOW I might get one of these", to "oh never mind" when you actually spec one out. Shame I could really see myself using one, but not for those upgrade prices.

[@aravindpallippara1577]

I am really tempted to get one for my parent's basic computer, but then I think about phasing out my current 5600G pc and giving them that.

[@wtfnahmean]

I mean you can get a terabyte external SSD for like 60 bucks, plenty quick for regular use. Sure if you need more RAM get something else, mac minis are not built for power users anyway

[@game-tea]

​@@wtfnahmeanexternal ssd's are a pain on macOS, they brick very easily if a Mac goes to sleep.

[@wtfnahmean]

@@game-tea I've been using all sorts of usb/thunderbolt drives (standalones, jbods, raids) on many mac minis running as file/media servers since early 2010s, never had any issue. It could be because I never let them go to sleep. Honestly these tiny machines are very energy efficient and use only a few watts when idle; there's no real need to let them "sleep" imo.

[@lelwani]

Honestly I agree with Linus on the first point. My retired dad needed a check emails and buy books off Amazon machine and I gave him a Mac Mini M1 I had laying around, and he keeps telling me how much he loves it. When it stops being fast enough for him I’m thinking of just getting the current-gen Mac Mini for him.

[@WayStedYou]

I doubt it ever will get too slow for that use case

[@lonesnake904]

My M1 Air with basically identical specs is still blazing fast for anything outside of heavy workloads/gaming, I bet his will last another 5+ years easily

[@costafilh0]

With external USB SSDs reaching speeds up to 2000MBps, you can get external storage and good performance for most things, while being cheaper. I'd rather get the base model Mac Mini and do that than pay the price for Apple's storage.

[@shapelessed]

If I ever bought a mac mini, I would probably just upgrade the RAM as high as I could, got like a 2TB NVMe SSD, an enclosure that preferably supports UASP so I still have Trim and boot off of that. Or if I had some more money in the future, a DAS or a NAS.

[@scagmo_au]

WE DONT TALK ABOUT THE EMU WAR!

[@alanhilder1883]

Have you seen how they made a movie of that war not long ago? shame it was very limited release, it looks like a great comedy. ;-)

[@EmuEmuchu]

:0

[@nexusdog]

The first one, or the second?

[@ai.alpha.epsilon]

You're fine. Anyone with half a braincell and the ability to read simple English would know the "war" was effectively 3 bored Aussies, 2 machine guns and 1 cinematographer (who I guess was along for the ride idk lol) if they spent half a second looking into it.

[@yakamoa177]

Hey you beat the DoDo.... Well until scientists bring it back genetically modified with attitude...

[@weldawadyathink]

You are doing a great job with sponsorships and your integrity. I bought those sleep buds the day I saw the sponsored video. I was able to justify that decision because I have come to trust you not to sell yourself to sponsors. Thank you for having and showing us that integrity.

[@dog_knight]

The Mac ssd upgrade was done by dosdude for the Mac Studio.

[@memediatek]

Someone's put an m.2 on regular macbooks

[@peterbreis5407]

You can take one more criticism away from Apple. The SSD in the M4 Mac mini is an upgradeable accessible M.2. Just under the bottom cover. Might make an interesting show breaking down the Mac mini. It looks absolutely amazing inside. So that makes the M4 Mac mini even more compelling.

[@nickwallette6201]

That's good. Count me in as one who really likes Mac OS, and the Mini in particular (it's what I use for my daily whatever computer, and my work computer), but the storage upgrade prices _are_ totally unreasonable. Granted, they use good flash. Still. It's inexcusable and needs to change. That said, there are computers I like to tinker with, and there are computers that I need to Just Work. And these days, the one you buy can easily last 10 years without upgrades, so if you buy smart the first time, there's just not as much reason to ever crack it open as there was in the past. Combine that with the performance gains of moving everything closer together -- ultimately, all on-die -- and as unfortunate as it sounds, it's inevitable that "what you buy is what you get" sooner or later. As someone who built my first "all-mine" PC to run MS-DOS 5 and Windows 3.1, I hate that we're losing modularity. I also appreciate the reality that I'll never have any reason to see the inside of my MacBook Pro M1 -- which still feels like "a new computer" to me. We're not bringing home the minimum viable computer like we were back in the day, trying to scrape by with 2MB of RAM and an 80MB HDD until we can afford to double it. The minimum now is probably enough for most of us, for the lifetime of the device. It's just a different world now.

[@peterbreis5407]

@@nickwallette6201 My main computer is a Macbook Pro M1 Pro. Best computer I ever bought. SSD is not as important as extra RAM, you can always attach external drives. I wish I had got more RAM in my Macbook Pro. 16gb is OK but I have lots of tabs open and it does page after being open for a while. I'm not going to buy one, but I am tremendously impressed by the new M4 Mac mini. If I were to buy one, I'd get the Pro for the 24gb RAM, 512Gb SSD and Thunderbolt 5. Macs last a heck of a long time with constant Apple support and all the standard installed quality Mac software immediately makes them cheaper than any equivalent PC. That the M4s are this powerful at the current prices is just a bonus.

[@pauldrice1996]

I used to read encyclopedias as a kid. Now I have Wikipedia, I could see a subscription to a more curated digital encyclopedia being interesting but those don't have synthesis for how to make basically any chemical. I'm not going to provide specific examples because I like them existing, if you want to try it maybe don't include synthesis in the google search.

[@MrBigNicholas]

2:27:00 why is no one questioning this noise??? The only person that seems concerned is luke looking off to the side a bit but thats all

[@KyleDavis328]

The 16 GB is shared System RAM and VRAM on the Mac... Just as an FYI

[@NightRogue77]

Kinda sorta important-ish

[@raynjpg]

oh, that's gross.

[@jamest8959]

explain to me like I'm 5 why this is important?

[@dmug]

Also more efficient but needs more RAMs

[@CallumAi]

Also results in reduced duplication in memory, so it’s not quite as simple as that

[@crittobobby]

I love how it takes me a freaking week to finish an episode and tomorrow is already Friday again! Unlimited content hack? Also.. The Dan's yawn at the end? perfect close.

[@iLegionaire3755]

Apple has thoroughly impressed me with their M4 lineup! The M4 Max Macbook Pro and micro-sized M4 Mac Mini (super cheap for average Mac pricing also) is particularly impressive. It may be time to have a PC desktop and a Mac laptop. Apple is ahead of the mobile game more than ever before with Apple Silicon. ARM impresses me further. There will always be PC's in my life, but I remember dismissing OS X and Apple harshly after my first Powerbook G4 experience. To be a true content creator, one must embrace both Mac and PC in their workflow!

[@davidv2002]

for the mcdonalds ice cream machine, a company named kytch made a device that can diagnose the problem and give steps for the owner to fix it. once taylor/mcdonalds got word of this, they put a plug on it by voiding the warranty if you’re caught using it

[@N0ld0r]

With a mac-mini. Also... When/if the ssd breaks you can't go to the store and buy a new ssd and put it in your computer. You have to hope that apple still supports their proprietary software locked SSD modules.. Then you pay 1 arm and 1 leg for a new one that is still 256GB... That replacement will cost you multiples more than 1TB of regular SSD storage... You are locked into apple service with apple parts.. Thats costs a LOT down the line.

[@jlatoo]

good thing that's pretty rare

[@N0ld0r]

@@jlatoo Yes, it is pretty rare. On the other hand, most people seem to sooner or later have to turn to apple service. It's uncommon in new devices but when you had it for a couple of years it seems pretty common (like with all other brands). So that cost will most probably come. And second hand machines.. forget about it. 😅

[@jlatoo]

@N0ld0r any stats to back this up?

[@N0ld0r]

@@jlatoo Any person who owned a computer ever. 😅 You can't for real be claiming that people rarely have hardware issues with computers? Happy if you haven't had any but that doesn't reflect the experience of every other consumer. The point is that with a mac you are forced to use apple services for spares and repairs and they cost magnitudes more than repairs on any regular pc. It IS a cost that you have to bring into your calculation. Any failed hardware will cost you a LOT. 😅 This is something you commit to on purchase. Apples stamp of quality doesn't help you whenever it happens and it does happen.

[@jlatoo]

@N0ld0r Mac computers are different from most windows and Linux computers. Less points of failure

[@TheEhlek23]

2:25:00 I was forced to take a gym class in college, the only gym class that was appealing to me was fishing, I did that already in my free time. I was forced to pay for a class that I did for free... Not saying all extra classes are pointless but some of them are definitely just a money grab. That and books...

[@CubicleCalvary]

One advantage of the Mac desktop over a laptop is you can boot off of, or just add, an external SSD. The old Mac Mini even had docks you could buy with sata slots built in. No point in paying for Apples ridiculous storage prices.

[@donnydarko7624]

Like the Satechi Mac mini thunderbolt hub/SSD enclosure that stacks under the M1, M2, M3 mac minis? Im pretty sure you can't boot Mac OS off an external drive with those though.

[@JonnyEklund]

@@donnydarko7624Yeah. Will be interesting to see one of those docks with thunderbolt 5 for the new one.

[@roaba3581]

You can't boot a laptop off of an external drive? I never looked at doing that tbh, but I'd be really surprised. Are you talking about Apple Laptops or Windows?

[@JonnyEklund]

@@roaba3581 I think it’s technically feasible, but I’ve heard of bugs and headaches if you unplug the usb-drive, put it in a bag or generally use it like a laptop.

[@partytimeninja3139]

You can use an external drive with a laptop ....

[@ruthcherry3177]

Thanks for another interesting WAN Show! I appreciate so much of what you do, and I can totally relate to that poor teacher - kudos to him for stepping up!!! I started consuming books in infant's school - cleared out the whole library, so they had to send up to the junior school to keep me in books. On top of that, my family bought me every book by Enid Blyton, which I read multiple times, even though my teacher was concerned about "the reading material" and what effect it would have on me in the future! I went on to read Celtic and Greek mythology, Bram Stoker's Dracula, everything I could lay my hands on by JRR Tolkien, more fantasy and science fiction than I can begin to list, and every single Disk World novel by Terry Pratchett at least five times. I've also read all the Harry Potter books more than once. Way too many authors to list, but Douglas Adams deserves a mention. Now, I'm trying to teach Spanish kids how to write in English! The problem is that they just don't read, and if you don't read, you just can't write!

[@ThatBeTheQuestion]

40:50 Linus, when are you going to learn that just because you forbid backflips doesn't mean that'll stop Riley. Or Elijah, probably. 🤣

[@BoSaGuy]

So then Elijah did a backflip, snapped the bad guy’s neck and saved the day

[@MakDemonik]

So im from europe. And I dont know if its because of different machines or different policies that forbid "exclusive repair" practices. But in more or less 3 decades of my life I can remember maybe one or two times where a McDonald machine was broken. And usually for a single day only. Being able to service those machines by third parties or doing it yourself is a major win.

[@undeadstudios2285]

20:47 for people who live in countries where electricity is expensive like me, i turn my pc off when it's not being used

[@itskdog]

Is that not just normal behaviour to keep energy costs down, especially in the cost of living crisis? Also just being environmentally friendly?

[@dasunguy]

One of my biggest culture shocks was when I heared that people in North America tend to keep the lights on when nobody is in the room. I am living in a first world country and these LED lamps don't need much power. But come on, WTF?!

[@akosv96]

​@@itskdogit's 'Murica. Turning the pc off is too hard

[@itskdog]

@@akosv96 In the UK there was a big TV campaign when I was a child around actually getting up to turn the TV off with the power button rather than just putting it in standby. With modern TVs not having that facility these days you need a remote or smart plug or physically switch it off at the wall now.

[@guitaripod]

@@itskdogyou save $100-200 yearly by doing that. you can easily do the math with ai when you know the prices and energy output

[@davekelloway3337]

Teacher who did that assignment is a total boss. I wish I had him when I was in school.

[@OnnieKoski]

That Ai Minecraft was anxiety inducing

[@MarcSGA]

External NVMe thunderbolt enclosure + 2tb rocket fish and you’ve got all the storage you need for the MacMini

[@inf3rnalis804]

The live reading of my immortal made me hyperventilate and induced a nostalgic sense of dread, Dan who are you?

[@MrSlosh]

That A.I. Minecraft is exactly how it feels to walk around in an Ambien and NyQuil dream.

[@ArnoldArenas]

Just get the base Mac Mini and get a fast Thunderbolt external drive. Now that MacOS allows installing apps on another drive, you get the upgrade without payung the Apple tax.

[@lonesnake904]

Exactly, and now that they have 16 Gb of RAM, the base model is a killer deal, even more so than last gen

[@Resumocebut]

Getting basically a "dongle" to play around Apple's stupidity truly is insanity if the whole point of the product is being mini.

[@ArnoldArenas]

What's the use of the thunderbolt ports if you're not going to use them? In addition, you don;t even have to connect them directly to the Mac Mini. You can daisy chain it to your monitor (if it supports daisy chaining).

[@gregor2436]

Not really a fan. 16gb is a pretty low amount of ram - for office fine, for just gaming as well. As soon as you start doing demanding stuff (data analysis or VMs etc.) it will be pretty low. And putting an external drive next to the pc somehow contradicts the ultra small form factor. You need additional hardware. A TB ssd drive is at about 80€ (without SSD). And you can absolutely disrupt the connection by touching it to hard (kids, pets, ...). Sorry, but apple has to be forced to add an nvme slot. They are producing e waste as usual.

[@ArnoldArenas]

You're commenting on an entry level device on a use case that's performed by less than 1% of the population. Probably less than 0.1% even.

[@JamesRichardsPlays]

59:21 we have staggered days in Las Vegas, NV USA. I was so glad to have ended my high school years well before anyone thought about this. I felt sorry for my little brother though. Half the teachers I had in high school who claimed to be lifers slowly quit. And they were some of the best teachers.

[@emmobrien]

Why didn't they just compare it to buying one of the many available MiniPCs lol (like Beelink etc)

[@Bob_Smith19]

Because that makes to much sense. It’s certainly a better comparison based on repairibility/uogradeability alone. The Mac and mini-PCs have neither and it something fails you have a brick of e-waste.

[@cadenchurchill4296]

Very excited for content on the new M4 Macs! I almost got a M4 base MacBook Pro, but ended up ordering a refurbished M3 Pro 14” model instead. Think I’ll appreciate the extra GPU cores and likely better cooling!

[@alanhilder1883]

2:23:49. "Everyone is trying Dan". The come back is " Yes, very. ".

[@ferinzz]

Idea for the store. A I would buy this if it was in stock button. Only present for a certain period of time, maybe also factoring in how quickly something goes out of stock ie it sells out in one or two days. Basically track the 'missed sales' on out of stock items to judge if it needs an increase in quantity or not.

[@512TheWolf512]

the only good thing about m4 mac things is that the PC parts manufacturers will be FORCED TO return their prices back to the reasonable level.

[@bootchoo96]

Not really lol

[@SiliconGoose]

'Fraid not. The average non-technical individual is more likely to compare the Mac mini to a $300-400 mini PC that offers a 2-3 generation old mobile ryzen 7 that boasts 8 cores, 16gb memory and and 1tb SSD without considering the sharp performance difference in favor of the Mac.

[@favna]

1:45:50 it isnt lost on me that Oasis is also the name of the VR world in Ready Player One

[@Henry.25]

“M4 goes bang” In the thumbnail Me: Why are they talking about a BMW? ☠️😂

[@davidcanada4056]

@@Henry.25 I thought they were talking about the rifle

[@Henry.25]

@davidcanada4056 that too 😂😂😂😂😂

[@zackbob6]

Dude I LOVE Major Payne!!! Saw it when I was a kid and loved for the cool military stuff and gun flipping. I love it even more as an adult now that I can get the jokes and stuff

[@chromefuture5561]

Well at least you can connect nvmi storage on the pro model via thunderbolt 5

[@goatsiahthelegend]

My wife and I have the concept of little internet (phone), medium internet (tablet), and big internet (desktop) activities. Big internet: doing taxes, signing documents, etc Medium internet: paying bills, rent/mortgage, etc Little internet: ≈ everything else

[@dmug]

Diehard Mac user but the upgrade prices are brutal. The m4 is both amazing and sad.

[@TheosTechTips]

Totally agree! I LOVE my M1 Mac Mini, but I wish I could upgrade RAM/SSD.

[@fujinshu]

RAM is not upgradable, but such is the nature on on-package memory (Lunar Lake / Core Ultra 200V is doing this as well now). As for storage, you can just get a Thunderbolt/USB4 M.2 NVMe SSD adapter and put everything on it, leaving the internal SSD for OS updates and swap memory.

[@Nib_Nob-t7x]

@@fujinshuIntel said they were not going to do on package memory again.

[@Resumocebut]

@@fujinshu "Just get a dongle" truly is the new "Think different", isn't it?

[@TheosTechTips]

@@fujinshu External storage isn't a justification/solution for Apple's outlandish upgrade prices.

[@GullibleGuttridge]

Talking about reading i struggled when i was younger as many people do. i have dyslexia but for me that wasnt the main problem it was i had no interest in what we where reading about like shakespeare and Charles Dickens. i would fail my homework but i didnt care because i would go home and read books like How Things Work , Top 100 Cars Ever Made, AC/DC Encyclopaedia stuff i wanted to read and wanted to learn about that was the key for me

[@costafilh0]

I hate MacOS, but the base model Mac Mini actually seems like a great value.

[@debries1553]

what I think is really interesting on the bail-granting algorithm being ignored in cases of domestic violence: it could be that the score is lower because the only people allowed bail in that situation are in an exceptional cases. Basically, you have a conditional probability skewing the results.

[@gravityhorse4781]

@23:24 Never forget that when customizing components in such a configurator, you aren't _just_ buying that higher amount of memory and/or storage directly; you're replacing an existing amount of storage and/or memory that _would_ have already come with the computer in addition to the insane price hike. So for example, you aren't _just_ sacrificing *$800* for a 2TB SSD (which is already horrendous & indefensible), you're sacrificing *$800* *_AND_* a 256GB SSD to get a 2TB SSD instead. Only Apple turbo simps would even attempt to justify this shameless debauchery.

[@Bultizar]

Exactly, I've been asking that for YEARS. Why aren't they compensating for the part I am giving up....

[@noer0205]

Yeah the true price comparison is actually the price difference(!) between e.g. 256 GB to a 512 GB SSD compared to Apples price increases. Not the cost of a 512 GB SSD to the price increase.

[@donnydarko7624]

@@gravityhorse4781 That's not how it works. You don't buy a pre-built x86 computer and get both a 256gb drive and a 2tb drive if you bought one that specifically stated it had a 2tb drive, and if you build one you wouldn't buy the 256gb drive either. No other computer you buy wouldn't just add a second drive unless you were getting it custom built for you that way. I'm sure you can purposely buy prebuilts with multiple drives standard, but that's not the extremely common.

[@gravityhorse4781]

@donnydarko7624 I see what you’re saying, but that’s not what I mean. I mean that the original price point includes a specific component to begin with, so that’s included in the base price already. But then, when you pay to upgrade that component in a configurator, it doesn’t seem to adjust the upgrade price to compensate for the fact that you’re now no longer getting a component whose cost was already included in the base price. So when you pay $800 to upgrade to a 2TB SSD, that’s $800 in _addition_ to the base price which already included the cost of the base component that you no longer get. I hope I explained that well enough.

[@donnydarko7624]

@ gravityhorse4781 in PC part picker? Well you have to delete the other drive in PC part picker. On computers with integrated storage or ram the ugprade is more than likely soldered to the main board from say foxconn in apple's case or pegatron with Asus or other manufacturers that contract through pegatron so the cost of the upgraded version (which is actually a different product sku) is not a true upgrade in the most literal sense. It's more just switchingto what product you are buying on the backend of the website.

[@nick-dogg]

Mac mini base model is hard to beat. If you store everything on an external, you can’t beat the price!

[@Jiangcool9]

Hiding view count is a terrible idea, it just pushes for harder and more extreme clickbait thumbnails

[@MrBigNicholas]

Wtf is youtube doing the blue link in comments thing that tiktok does??? "Clickbait" is a link in your comment and takes me to a KZbin search for the same thing

[@MrBigNicholas]

It's now gone for me, I swear it was real

[@aravindpallippara1577]

You aren't imagining it, I too noticed those blue links. Haven't clicked one yet to test.

[@Nostalgia_Realm]

Anyone know if the WAN document with all the news sources is still published somewhere? Couldn't find it on the LTT forum for this episode. I remember they used to create a topic for these all the time.

[@theredmonkey]

Mac also comes with iWork so it’s pretty close to Office for free which for the home and student user is pretty great.

[@Xul]

There's LibreOffice fit that case.

[@EugeneYunak]

⁠@@RegenTonnenEnteexcept that you don’t pay extortionate prices if you are no silly. i’m a software dev running local k8s cluster, ide etc in addition to heavy powerpoint and thousands of tabs in safari. on a 24gb m2 air. almost nobody needs anything more than base m4 macmini.

[@lazymass]

There are things like Libre Office and tbh I have no idea why would I pay for MS Office, it can't really make so much more if we talk about Excel/Word/PowerPoint...

[@S54Smoke]

​@RegenTonnenEnte lol why are you complaining, just buy a chromebook if you just want cheap

[@S54Smoke]

@@RegenTonnenEnte Have fun letting advertisers know you better than yourself 🫡

[@tutacat]

1. The reason the ice cream machines are "broken" is because you cannot reset the temperature trip (and other issues). 2. McDonalds corporate was probably making money, or at least a of beneficial arrangement.

[@staplefinger]

Linus reading My Immortal was not on my 2024 bingo card

[@FrankFarukCeviz]

How does Apple’s pricing works? 1 x Mac Mini M4 32GB Memory 512GB HD £1.199 2 x Mac Mini M4 16GB Memory 256GB HD £1.198 How green is Apple? The Mac Mini's power button is playing hide-and-seek at the bottom back because Apple figured, "Who needs easy access when you can have a morning workout routine called 'Yoga Pose: The Desk Dive'?" Plus, they thought, "Why let you turn it off and save energy when it can run 24/7, becoming the life of the party while you're out, and then dramatically fade away like a tech version of 'Here Today, Gone Tomorrow'?" Talk about a power-hungry little diva!

[@LILEE376]

I am playing WoW with satisfaction on M1 mac mini (16GB RAM). I think any of the M series Mac Mini default version is excellent to anyone for SoHo uses, or light gaming. What the PC APU-s cant solve these were/are able to. A current gen console and a starter Mac Mini is an excellent high value combo.

[@lukeskywalket2894]

In regards to booking travel at a pc vs mobile device: I am firmly Gen Z and I while I don’t have an issue making purchases on my phone, I prefer using my desktop because I find it easier to visually confirm information quickly. I’ve been traveling around the world with either of my parents for as long as I can remember, but I was never taught to make certain purchases on certain types of devices. I’ve just found that it’s easier to spot ‘hidden’ fees or scheduling discrepancies or other informational contradictions when I have a larger screen in front of me. Even when I’m purchasing regional train tickets (which are relatively cheap in my area), I go out of my way to book the tickets on my desktop.

[@robster7787]

The Mac Mini is fairly good deal for the base model… and if all you do is use anything in the Apple creator suite. Anything beyond that including upgrading it is pretty much a ripoff. Even MKBHD acknowledges it.

[@newellslab]

I use NUCs around the house using moonlight to stream games from my central gaming PC and might replace them (almost 13 years old) with Minis. Could see a serious usecase for these new Minis for home theaters or game streaming boxes.

[@aidenblair]

@@Bengy22 You can actually get up to 32gb / 2tb on the m4 it’s just ridiculously expensive. You can get up to 64gb / 8tb on the m4 pro as well.

[@Bengy22]

@@aidenblair Yes now that I've watched into the stream more I see that, wasn't familiar with apples site so didn't see you could option it higher. Still though that's some crazy high prices

[@BooleanDev]

there is no reason to get their 2tb storage upgrade. Instead get the 512gb and an external ssd

[@4203105]

What are you actually going to do with that base model?

[@suspence7207]

1:34:50 The student definitely completed the assignment of making an attack ad, just wasn't supposed to be a real one.

[@JonnyEklund]

If CPU is important. Geekbench 6 Single-core: Apple M4 Pro: 3925 Intel i9-13900KS: 3136 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X: 2986 Multi-core: Apple M4 Pro: 22,669 Intel i9-13900KS: 21,732 AMD EPYC 9374F: 21,488

[@raynjpg]

yeah, i guess that's not quite as impressive of scores as i thought they might be. is this tested off the M4 iPad, or something like review samples that tech media have received?

[@GermanMythbuster]

Synthetic test are not really good. It all depends on the workload which hardware is best.

[@CoveringFish]

@@raynjpg apple has a huge amount of their performance from software integration, intel uses brute force and literally heat

[@JonnyEklund]

@@raynjpg The iPad Pro never received the m4 pro. Only m4, and a clocked down / lower core variant from what I understand at the moment. If you and doing work that is heavily reliant on cpu, the m4 pro seems really good this year.

[@aravindpallippara1577]

Is that a 24 core epyc chip? Surprisingly low scores for multithreading.

[@daylen577]

The iMac at this point is literally just a big iPad running MacOS instead of iPadOS. Which is 100% fine, they're plenty powerful enough for most daily driver use, but you're really mostly paying for the screen. If they came with vesa mounting holes and a clean way to connect two of them (or a 1:1 clone of the shell with just monitor hardware inside it so you could hang them side by side) it'd actually be very neat, but as it stands it's a pretty expensive browsing machine because the screen is phenomenal but the hardware itself is less powerful than other options.

[@mtrps_]

the Apple ecosystem pressure working as it was designed to be

[@jeroenhdv]

Even for games the M-series perform pretty good. Sure, you won't be able to play your full Steam library, but you'll be able a decent chunck of it. You can easily make use of Whisky to still play most of your games. I hope that more developers include MacOS in their releases. I'm playing Baldurs Gate 3 maxed out on my MacBook Pro M1 Max (4K -> 20-35fps / 1400 -> +60fps)

[@lockinhinddanger934]

I too make good use of whiskey to play my games, it helps with my aim.

[@ab2aasd]

If we're talking about facebook machines for gramps, why spend $600 when a celeron NUC is like $120?

[@unoriginalyoutubename8761]

@@ab2aasd no one should be buying a cerleron in 2024.

[@HyviaVideoitaMansenlale]

Care to explain why not?

[@CanIHasThisName]

Holy crap, celeron? “Facebook machine for gramps” is an exaggeration, the point is that it’s a great machine for general tasks, not that it’s slow to the point of being barely usable. If you aren’t a dedicated gamer, as a general user there’s just no reason to put up with Windows anymore.

[@TheGoncas2]

The 10 CPU cores of the M4 are 4P+6E cores. Those E cores are not comparable AT ALL to Zen 4 cores. A fairer comparison would be to go Intel 14400F, which also has E-cores.

[@fujinshu]

Also, those P cores AREN’T multithreaded.

[@KamilGugel]

I cannot watch this without time stamps. So we wait, for the return of our hero

[@justinv3080]

I posted a try at it about an hour ago

[@KamilGugel]

@@justinv3080 I went to Noki's channel and has a DOC link with all the time stamps and streams and there is already this streams time stamps

[@Sal51983]

Noki timestamps are in the comments, he actually posted them 5 hours before your comment but youtube shadowbans it everytime. So you can only see his comment if you sort the comments by newest instead of the default top comments (because top comments doesn't show everything). Generally every week you can scroll back to roughly the time the show ended ( once you sort it by newest comments) and you'll find his comment every time until it gets pinned! I just load them all and ctrl + f and search noki and boom problem solved.

[@monkeyontherun4]

For the framework handheld, you should get the creator on to talk about it. It's extremely cool.

[@agw5425]

First upload date and time should be mandatory in law to stop old videos being presented as new. Only when you search by topic should older videos be allowed and then sorted by newest first, info gets old quick, especially news videos.

[@Pochaco2007]

Finally "They've got a great show lined up for us". Thought I'd never hear it.

[@dihartnell]

1:48:10 sick burn about starfield by Luke.

[@finestcustard5647]

It's Monday and I'm already done listening to the WAN show VOD. What am I gonna do????

[@altrogeruvah]

Ex-Mac user for 18 years and current Linux user here: even though I'm not interested in ever buying a Mac computer or using macOS again, I absolutely agree that the new M4 Macs are the best performing computers for their price... if you live in North America. It makes no sense buying Apple products in Europe or any other part of the world, EU taxes & import fees sometimes add up to an additional 70% of the total value, you're better off buying OEMs or even better, making your own Windows/Linux computers. I'd much rather pay an extra 200-300€ upfront knowing that I can repair or upgrade my computer ad infinitum, than buy *_today's_* best machine for less and being stuck with it.

[@lazymass]

M4 mini costs around 760 dollars in Europe, still higher than US, but really not 70% more expensive....