I played (Nerfed) Adepta Sororitas Champions of Faith detachment 40k for 40hrs: What I Learned

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

Adept Roll If you want to figure out your odds of beating an enemy unit or seeing how much damage your favorite model can endure, try the Adept Roll app: Website: adeptroll.com/ Google Play play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.adept_roll iOS apps.apple.com/gb/app/adept-roll-mathhammer-app/id1480073816

[@nickrivas6429]

I find it astonishing how disgraced sisters are better units than the "elite" sisters

[@kalamander8563]

Makes sense, they're tryhards. They want to get that sweet, sweet redemption from Big E

[@merutusid6557]

You wrong! We need Paragon Warsiut, this is my favorite model. I love how they look. I love build them. I love paint them. I have 9 of them and happy to bring them to table, even if that not the best option. Yea this detachment is not great, but Paragon Warsiut biggest fun like me are happy. P.S. Anyway, great video :). Need more positive for sisters now.

[@Cruxxy21]

Honestly with the focus on warsuits, this sounds like classic James Workshop logic. "We must punish Warsuits (and Vahl) because they're in every tournament army! Also here's a detachment that makes them even stronger. STOP TAKING THEM! PLEASE TAKE THEM!"

[@MGPW]

My favourite thing about the "sixty Battle Sisters" approach is I wouldn't need to buy, assemble or paint any new minis. I have the 60 Battle Sisters and a few assorted Heroines right there in metal!

[@x_etnn3737]

I've been waiting for this vid ❤🎉

[@1inimilian567]

Oh paragon war suits? The thing I bought first and is responsible for all of my wins? The thing that got me to commit to sisters? The “I don’t care what your model is, it is dying and you can’t stop it.” Unit? Yes please tell me about them with the new detachment that makes them better. I want to here how cool they are.

[@christopheraaron1255]

*hear

[@1inimilian567]

True

[@jasompinard4576]

I'm with you on the Paragon Warsuits. They're kinda Sisters' solution to terminators. They can be good; but I just don't like the models or how they fit into the Sisters' general meta mojo. Interesting take on Repentia vs. Sacresants. Repentia are, to me, a very good fit in the Sisters' meta and mojo, so thumbs up on them.

[@mrcz7575]

Between asking a Sisters player at my Warmhammer store and Reddit Adapta Sororitas Group, I found out that with Army of Faith that you can use your Cherub DURING the hit roll or wound roll phase after Act of Faith Miracle Dice have been used. Then can use the Miracle Dice you got from the cherub and continue the hit and roll phases. So 2 MD hit roll, 1 MD hit roll & 1 MD wound roll, or 2 MD wound roll. I thought I was crazy when I tried to do it. Everyone has seemed to confirm that I can. Also, if I have Dialogus (40 points) to the unit I get 2-6 MD! ✌🏾😁👍🏾 If I'm wrong Christian, please let me know.

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

It works! And the Diologus is a great choice in Army of Faith. I recommend passing a wound roll and then with the new dice (if good) use it on damage.

[@geoffbybee7125]

Retributor squad in immolator < Retributor squad in Repressor 😎

[@Johnny-Thunder]

I stopped obeying the errata with all the nerfs and miracle dice limitations - screw that. I played a game yesterday against Orcs using the Codex rules and the point values of 6 months ago and was still soundly defeated: those nerfs and point increases are preposterous in my humble opinion...

[@TemperingFaber3]

4:29 Where is this artwork from? It looks AWESOME!

[@TheBaronDen]

I love a little web crawling challenge, and I managed to find it on Artstation credited to Alex Cristi and titled "Warsickle 40M - Laudest vs Lewdest"

[@zbeaverman3000]

@@TheBaronDen thank you for finding this

[@johnsmith-zd4mq]

I think that the palatine's mortals do go to the character if she has precision, since the ability says "the target of that attack suffers 1 mortal wound in addition to any normal damage"

[@jacobwillis7596]

I’ve been wanting a non penitent melee detachment and warsuits are my fav unit…but can I resist the unga bunga impulse and actually think?

[@PatrixBest]

I play Army of Faith and it's doing quite fine for miracle dice, with the ability to generate 8+ extra miracle dice per round between enhancements and stratagems, but other detachments probably just accept that MDs will be very rare and barely used

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

I feel the same, not drowning in miracle dice but have a good number of them

[@PatrixBest]

​@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber Honestly this nerf has forced me to explore options for MD generation and efficiency that I didnt consider before and it has diversified my army

[@thorscape3879]

​@@PatrixBestYou don't have multiple options for generating dice. You have one single option; play Army of Faith.

[@braverzero3709]

PRAISE THE GO-EMPEROR

[@JConnollystudio]

So, I play Champs, I have 4 games in, 2 more coming this weekend. I love it. By a strike of luck, I have 9 Warsuits ( they are not great looking, but much better as I added new boots and converted their poses) . I have won 2 games, one was nil and lost one. I like the game style, you have to think 2 rounds a head. MD are just points for me. Aestred + Hospy + BSS have been my surprise squad. Valh'n'friends is pure murder. I use Morty'n'Morty'n'Penny as decoys and draw enemies out. All in all, it's been working for me. Taking them in a competition at the end of February 🎉

[@Goober2289]

"MD are just points for me" that's my whole issue with this detachment, we're swapping our army rule for a detachment rule that isn't any more powerful than any other detachment, and that feels really bad.

[@JConnollystudio]

@Goober2289 I agree, but I have little power over it. So I adapted. My opponent's main issue with MD is that 6... That six I keep for when that melta hits... For full damages. They look at it, they fear it... They want it! Even if they're winning, they haaaaaate that 6MD I been keeping for 2 rounds now. With points, I don't get that from them. People are weird, to bad for them because the Champion detachment has me now winning! 😂 And it removed me caring what dice I roll as a MD, as long as I got them to burn!

[@avlaenamnell6994]

i love sob but the nerfs really made them unfun to play for me. especially when i look at the costs of things in sob compared to my other army. celestian sacresants feel underwhelming compared to lychguard. and many many other things. Feels like they got way over nerfed with the points cost not gonig down. 250 pts for the triumph? oof. it feels like playing without an ability on most leaders.

[@AnimeSquirrel]

If it's not a battle sister on or in it, I'm not using it. Paragon Warsuits > Penitent Engines by default.

[@TemperingFaber3]

I will never understand why Sisters have so poor leadership this edition, they should be Space Marines level at least, if not better! About the Miracle points, if it means better datasheets and the return of hymns, I agree, albeit a bit sad, cuz miracle dice are so unique: we will lose the "normal gal parrying a demon lord", but, then again, "miracle die" of 1s make no sense xD The Emperor actively sabotaging his people?😂⚜

[@jasompinard4576]

I agree. They're raised their entire lives to die for the emperor. They religious fanatics to the core. Yet, they have arguably worse leadership than gaurdsmen.

[@CapnMorndas]

Why not put Retributors in an Immolator if you mind my asking? It seems like a good way to make a particularly deadly block of flamers/meltas, esp with a palatine giving miracles. Sure it makes them a priority target but you can play around that with some good planning.

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

It is very expensive in points and wastes the Immolator ability to split a unit. When you say Palatine do you mean Diologus? That is adding more points and 5 sisters can die very easily to overwatch. Even if there is no overwatch, you get one shot with this unit before it is killed and you won't get your points back.

[@CapnMorndas]

@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber sorry typo on my part. I meant with the palatine giving leathals (my bad). As for splitting sisters it's not really something I enjoy doing as they're already weak units but I see where you're coming from with getting one shot.

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

@@CapnMorndas With a Palatine it is not a lot of shots and you are hoping to roll 6's. It wouldn't help flamers at all. If you had a miracle dice of a 6 you would save it for the damage roll. Splitting dominions is a good idea. You get a small unit with a simulacrum that can sit at home and you get an immolator full of melta weapons. Same price as Retributers but you get an extra unit out of it

[@frasercampbell841]

How would you equip your battle sisters? I was thinking of playing a battle sisters with a Priest with Zealots vindictor, then you can fall back when righteous and fall back and shoot and charge with a lot of +1's. But I wasnt sure whether to use flamers or something else.

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

I still equip them like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJrFeYampdGqgNEsi=8JzjNX9fnv1zmXwe Almost any weapon is fine, flamers on flamers with a heavy flamer and flame pistol for more flamers makes for great overwatch (because flamers)

[@welldan]

For Paragon Warsuits, does the +1 to hit make it a lethal hit if you roll a 5?

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

no, critical hits are checked before applying any modifiers

[@welldan]

@ ohh. So that wouldn’t work either in hallowed martyrs. Sad

[@beebeebees]

I actually really like the paragon warsuits probably because i really like battle sisters and i also love me a good mech

[@JackDespero]

I wish, I really, really wish, that they would just change Hallowed Martyrs from "Below half" to "Half or below". That would instantly enable so many more units which at the moment have effectively only half of the detachment rule. You are already in a bad spot if you are half or below, the +1 is not going to compensate that much. I think this change is not going to break the game, and it would feel so, so much better.

[@theblackantonio]

Summary: sisters got a waaaagh 😂

[@JackDespero]

I still don't understand why Sacresants, who are clearly more armoured than normal sisters and have a MASSIVE full body shield, have exactly the same profile as the average sister (except for the 4++, which only makes a difference if you hit both of them with an anti tank weapon, and at that point there are other much more pressing problems). Sacresants should have either 2+, T4/T5, or W2. Realistically, probably a combination of 2 out of the 3 (realistically something like 2+ and W2). I just don't understand what is the shield doing. What is the extra armour for? Is this caused by them wearing hoods instead of helmets? Then put some goddamn helmets on them! I have tried so hard to make Sacresants work because I like the models and they are some of my best paint jobs, and they are usually between trap and dead weight. One would think that adding something like a Hospitaller or Junith (the Imagifier is not even worth considering for this role) to them would make them super tough with the -1 to wound, etc. But the problem with that -1 to wound is that the worst weapon in the game already wounds you on 4+, with the most common weapons wounding you on 3+, and the rest on 2+. So, yeah, the -1 to wound makes them go from "this is a trap unit, it is here to cause you lose games" to "at least they soaked some damage, I guess". And the fact that you need a character to have that is outrageous. Units of 5 are either way overcosted or useless. Ok, well at least if I attach Aestred, they will hit like a glass truck with the dev wounds and all the attacks and sustained and all of that. What a disappointment when they basically do nothing for 230 points. 230 points! I can get a castigator and a half for that! And that castigator will not only be much, much more resilient, but also deal more damage and help more! Heck, depending on how you play, it might even provide more effective OC. If GW is not going to change the Sacresant's stat line, then they need to be costed like other battle sisters, at 10 p/model. You are trading all your range fire power for a modicum of resilience. It seems to me like a trade off to be considered (and even then, I doubt many people would play them, as Sisters or even the overcosted Dominions give you so much more of what actually wins games, like movement, high OC, meltas, etc). What is ridiculous is them costing 50% than a battle sister, while being exactly as hard to k*ll without a character, and a +16% harder to kill with a character (at which point you are not even costed the same, as the character would add between 50% to 100% of the unit cost, but I digress). And we did not even get Aveline as a permanent option! I was really hopping for her to be added permanently to the roster as she could be quite useful specially in these dire times.

[@IanWhite1979]

given this detachment and the december changes to miracle dice, what's your recommended starter detachment for this army now? I'm looking at getting in to sisters and not sure which to go with. I'm not great with the game, either, for what thats worth

[@Goober2289]

For me Hallowed Martyrs or Bringers of Flame are the easiest for a new player, Both detachments allow you to focus more on what's happening on the table because the bonuses are just on all the time.

[@Chaosdragon240]

I'd recommend Hallowed Martyrs as you can plan around each unit being at full strength then have the ,nice surprise, of any mistakes you may make playing this faction (I make so gd many...) powering up the unit. It's a passive ability with a good payoff, your characters (The real powerhouses) can have a 2nd chance to wipe the floor with your opponent, and it's a tad bit less reliant on miracle dice (Try to save 1-2 in the pool to res a character if you can help it.) Bringers of Flame IS strong, but requires serious maneuvering now as you only benefit from 6" for the extra strength, though just having assault on every ranged weapon is still a strong buff.

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

I would say Hallowed Martyrs, it has mechanics that help you come back from messing up, like being able to bring back characters. If your unit gets hurt it can shoot back and there is fight on death stratagem for your combat units

[@Majere613]

The suggestion to play 1k games to learn the Detachment inadvertently exposes another layer of the stupidity of the recent changes- the new Miracle Dice don't scale with game size. Prior to the latest update, as the game got bigger you got more MD naturally due to taking casualties- now, with that capped at 1 per phase, the size of the game doesn't matter. You also illustrate another point, which is that a lot of the people complaining about MD being 'broken' or 'non-interactive' (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) hadn't bothered to learn how to deal with them effectively. I would repeatedly explain to people that I got a dice for them killing one of my units, only to have them finish off a weak unit before targeting an undamaged one they really needed to get rid of and then be shocked when I used the dice they'd just given me to pass a save and stop that from happening. People also often used to split attacks between multiple units, letting me use an MD on each, rather than focusing one down and making that impossible. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Miracle Dice prior to the last update, Sisters' win-rate was right in the target zone and they weren't dominating anything. Now they're an army where you have to work twice as hard as everyone else to achieve half as much. Vahl has become a walking sticking-plaster on the army, essential because half the time her unit is the only thing in the army with genuine threat, unless you ally in Knights- which further illustrates how weak the actual Codex has become.

[@mooncalf7878]

It's especially frustrating that people complain about miracle dice, but other armies have options for high flat damage attacks or can throw out lots of mortal wounds and those don't get the amount of "feels bad" that Sisters being able to spiking their damage gets. Not to mention their strength cap of 10 or less on ranged weapons, with the HK missile being the only ranged weapon with strength >10.

[@xWolfGuyx]

i love sob, but this detachment feels like hard mode for me. I'll stick to hollowed, and faith.

[@triplea657aaa]

I love paragons, but this detachment just doesnt do it for me... They already get +1 to hit vs vehicles, so it only helps them with if the enemy is -1 to hit or vs infantry, which our castigators are already great against. The strats are great and cool, but I rarely have suits live once they're in the open. Being able to fall back shoot and charge then 6" consolidate is incredible, but they're vehicles, so they're still going to get shot while in combat, meaning they're just going to die once they've been used unless your opponent messes up their movement. The detachment is really for sacresants, who i love the models for, but are just really expensive battle sisters that die very slightly less easily and don't hit that hard... Im just going to stick to HM for my suits list... 😮‍💨

[@JackDespero]

18:00 I actually like Paragon Warsuits... but only because I use an alternative model for them and they look so cool. But we have to count of blessings, or in this case, miracles, as it could have been much, much worse. Our warsuits could have been ... like the Grey Knights ones...

[@frasercampbell841]

I actually really like the paragon warsuit models, however it has to be one of the worst kits to assemble and is a little bland to paint. Glad its not just me

[@maxmagnus377]

I have played a few games with sisters since the nerfs and it's... interesting? If anything, I can wholeheartedly say that I actually *love* that MD are an actual resource now. It takes thought and planning to use them effectively, whereas before they were just a spammable ability. It's a lot more engaging now than it was before. There is a flip side though. The best I have done in 4 games is a draw... Miracle dice are a finite resource now, but the army is pointed to have them in abundance. Without fail, I find myself starting to run out of resources by round 3, and be almost completely tabled by the end of the game. The army still scores well enough for the first half of the game, but a fair bit of killing power was in the MD, and there's just so few of them now. If GW wants this to be how MD work, and how many we get of them (I hope so) they *really* need to apply sweeping points cuts across the entire range. Tournaments Shmournaments, you might say, but the first 2 weeks the winrates are in the upper 30s in terms of percentile, and that is very much indicative of a faction that was hit much, MUCH too hard with nerfs.

[@shamurai7]

im not even humoring sisters after the last nerf.... the way i see it, they dont even have an army rule anymore. Junith and Hospitaler are effectively crippled beyond use for lack of dice. Triumph has been hobbled to a point that even a non-competitive guy like me feels gross putting it in a list. All that time painting those fancy models... shame.

[@mooncalf7878]

This has been my view since the changes. I get miracle dice needed an adjustment, but holy cow, were sisters hit hard, and their points cost not beinging changed on anything is ridiculous. It really killed my mood to play them, but I don't have another 2k army to swap too.

[@nosbigdamus9665]

Lovely May the Emperor Protect Wish our girls were classed only wearing Carapace Armour 4+ Armour Save. And Have an invulnerable 5/6 Holy Save of the Emperor Always thought it would look right with their models, they don't really look like they are in Power Armour. But that's just me lol.

[@Delphineas]

I want Vahl to increase by at least 100 points, simply so she isn't an auto-take and our ENTIRE FACTION is balanced around her... I LOVE the themeing of the Champions of faih, but it sounds like I'll HATE the gameplay. My lethality already felt anemic...

[@badrabbit9703]

Your mic sounds weird. Did you change it? If not you might be too close. Don't eat your mic. It does not nourish you.

[@maiapetersen9092]

This was figured out in the last video in the comments section by them. Turns out they had double noise cancelling enabled through various sources that crunched the audio.

[@badrabbit9703]

@maiapetersen9092 still shouldn't eat mics. They're bad for you.