I "PROFILE" for the first time! IK Tone X Review

[@lugerard]

I’m tired of you preaching what is wrong and what is right! We’re not a bunch of elementary kids in a school. Majority of us here are professionals that just wants to see and hear about the new ToneX pedal if it’s worth purchasing. We’re not here to listen to your “Ethical Dilemma”. Do it in another platform or video.

[@EytschPi42]

So you don’t know how to skip a chapter on KZbin? Do you need help with that? Should I make a tutorial? I will make my videos in ways that I see fit. I have thoughts on certain issues and I will voice them.

[@lugerard]

Nope. You should make a tutorial on sticking with the topic at hand. I used to be a big fan until you started preaching. Shame….

[@themikepadua]

I REALLY appreciate you laying out your ethical concerns in the first portion of the video--I had never considered that, and that is definitely some food for thought.

[@themikepadua]

@@crouchjump5787 okay

[@diegooliveras1952]

Yeah but he review s type guitars and tube screamer clones

[@TheMisanthropist432]

I'm with you with the ethical problem, but... wouldn't that be also valid for guitars? What about Harley Benton or anyone for this matter, each brand has a ST, a T a G style guitar. What do you think?

[@harry-callahan-aka-dirty-harry]

Yeah! What about guitars?!

[@Sperzel]

Even earlier in the chain.. all the boutique amp builders whose products are basically clones of decades old circuits with minor tweaks. They have no leg to stand on. And let’s face it, the people who can afford a Friedman BE-100 or whatever ain’t gonna settle for a Tonex.

[@Stefan-]

Its a bit ironical that you are using a Les Paul copy guitar to do this demo, i bet Gibson didnt get any money for using their design either. For me naming a profile with a name that indicates what is profiled is more so that you can know what to expect from the sound which makes it easier to find the one you are after. I dont really care if it the profile is named after the amp otherwise, as you indicate if i like the sound i will use it regardless of what its called, so i see both sides of it and do understand the dilemma for the amp manufacturers but i also see that there is technical progress and tube amps are quite old tech now so maybe the digital will take over completely eventually.

[@EytschPi42]

Hardware vs digital

[@rangerdoc1029]

It can work the other way around too. I spent a decade chasing a specific tone. I bought dozens of amps and sold them all. It wasn't until I got a VST and was able to try hundreds of amp, pedal & cab combos, with make and model names!, that I found MY sound. Then I went out and bought it. As a middle class hobbyist, there's zero chance in hell I could have afforded to actually try all that gear.

[@Joejoe-nt3gc]

I agree… i spent 2k on pedal and im still not happy with what i hear.. this is a tool that will help me save… so end of discussion.. i didnt steal it .. i bought a product

[@dinonuggies2276]

This has some serious "boomer is afraid of ai" vibes. Lets be real, if youre not gonna call the Profile "jcm800" its just gonna be called "brit 800" or something. You cant own the sound of an amp anyway. Neither can you own the look of a threadplate or something You CAN NOT draw a line with copyright thats not a slippery slope. Is friedman "unethical" cause it looks like a marshall and sounds "brittish"? Is every tube screamer ever "unethical" cause its green and sounds... well... like a tubescreamer? You either cant own these ideas, or you want to establish totalitarian Monopoly Systems. Theres no realistic inbetween Also, theyre not even just using those names cause it "kinda sounds like xyz". In this cause the tone LITERALLY USES SAID GEAR

[@FKA_Skull]

My 2 cents is let a user name their preset whatever the hell they want.

[@paulburton5150]

I don't think Henning wants to sell us his profiles 😂

[@romankoschar9041]

Henning, first of all let me tell you that you do amazing work. I love your channel and your take on the whole gear situation. As far as profiling and modeling is concerned: I get where you are coming from, but at the same time we also use pedals that are made to sound like specific amps. You reviewed such products only recently. We use models that are named in a way that makes it clear they are supposed to sound a specific way. At the end of the day an amp is just a circuit. And circuits can be copied and shared freely. If you make it look the same then that's something different, that is violation of trade dress. So I honestly think that profiling is just copying a circuit. But naming it in a way that makes it clear that it is what it is is not an issue to me. I don't think that profiling kills amp manufacturers. Modeling didn't. And I remember a time when modelers said BSSMN50 on the display. What amp might that be? At that time amp sims still sounded like a caricature of the real thing whereas today the differences are suuuper subtle. But there is something about the sound of an amp in a room that will always appeal to people.who can afford it. And they won't be easily persuaded to give that up for a Quad Cortex, a Kemper, or an IK Tone X. If anything the afforementioned group of people use profiling rigs for touring. But they keep using real amps whenever they can. Profiling, much like modeling is just a convenience feature. And if convenience killed tube amps they would be gone twice over ;) All that being said: I would use profiling to profile my home studio sound if it were to inconvenient to bring that specific rig to a gig. But as of now that is not really an issue. EDIT: Why does it matter what's in my chain, in DAve Grohls chain, in anybodys chain really? It's a starting point for people. For designers to make a circuit that recreates a peculiar part of it. For inspired musicians to start their chase for tone. I mean I had to know what was in Kurt Cobains chain when I was a teenager. I went a completely different route after I knew, but it is instructive.

[@ksharpe10]

Yeah the realm of pedals is the same thing. Crazy Circuits Magnatone clones, Killer v, and memphis for example. Maybe they had permission to use, that I do not know.

[@sebastianstapf4271]

Totally agree. There seems to be a lot emotion involved, as rants happen to be, but the same argument can be made for all the Joyo pedals et al (and I love them, the sound for that price) and as well as all Harley Benton guitars which are living of the „marketing“ of fender, Gibson and all the others. So if there’s a valid point in that rant it goes for all the other „value brands“. And we can spin that for every household item. I’ve seen such an „old man rant“ on other channels before. Casino guitars was calling for a boycott of Harley Benton because they are copying designs. Duhh… And others for pedals. I think JHS put it well in one of their videos, different clientele wants different things. And some people can’t/don’t want to afford a Soldano but naming it similar gives me a better idea of a sound i am looking for than when it’s called „fat 90s rock sound“. I understand some things but I just can shake my head about the notion that cheap profiling devices will put amp manufacturer out of work. That are to totally different buyer groups. No one who can afford a Diezel will now buy a ToneX and the same the other way around. That all is a bs and elitist argument.

[@timolonnberg3205]

I agree the ethics. But what about UA woodrow, you demoed it as vintage Fender clone. What’s the diffence?

[@EytschPi42]

Technically no difference, but you can’t make more profiles and share them online… the amp is a fixed modeler

[@timolonnberg3205]

@@EytschPi42 I would rather pay some fee to the original amp designer than have these no branded profiles. For me there is definetely difference that I know that I play ”same amp as Keith Richards” or just play good sounding amp. Ofcourse the good tone is a priority, but the brand is also important. And I also want to buy these very well made profiles from the people who are professionals in making them. But I would gladly pay 40€ instead of 30€ to pay the commission to the amp designer.

[@dezertson2011]

The fact that IK support was fantastic makes a huge difference. People are dumping Quad Cortex’s for exactly that reason.

[@jurriezaat1135]

Don't agree on the profile rant...First of all people that can afford a real Soldano, Fender, whatever will still buy that. A profile is not the same as a real amp and will never be. In the synth (rompler) world: everybody is using samples of Rhodes piano's and Steinways. Yamaha piano's (the real ones) are still being sold. It's not the same audience. Profilers are new business and not replacing existing customers (mostly). And by the way, the Marshall example you mention.... didn't they start off copying (sort of) a Fender amp?

[@masterofreality230]

I absolutely love my Mark V 25, but I was trying out the software, and its unreal, if people are good at doing the capture, it can sound better than some other people can make a real amp sound. I have never messed with a high dollar modeller, and I am not a big fan of anything digital....until today

[@JohnWiku]

Fender amps started from a reference schematic from a tube manufacturer in the 1940s, and that is also how the standby switch myth came about. Leo Fender made use of the available schematic, didn't understand the intricacies of it, included the sodding standby switch (that was important for the very high voltage tubes, but completely bypassable for anything below and including the KT88 tubes), and it's 2023 and we still have every amp using it.

[@robertolsen9721]

I think your right. They joy of seeing glowing tubes and the smell is something else.

[@dragonsquare2802]

I guess then you didn’t understand the main argument of the rant. 🤷‍♂️ Maybe watch it again a few times until you do 😊

[@iurigrang]

I think this comparison is very weak. A sample of a Rhode piano can reproduce its recorded sound in one specific room. An actual Rhode piano has an in room sound though that you can't have just with the samples. The tonex is one clean power amp away from an in room sound though. And even if it wasn’t, rock fans are a lot more used to hearing a mic’ed up guitar sound through a PA then classical music fans are from non having an authentic in room experience. Industries die slow, people with lots of disposable income will continue buying real amps for a long time, so I kinda agree this is not the death of real amps, but by god is it a lot closer than samples are from the death of pianos.

[@vibrevtonez2421]

Ya because amp companies are completely ethical. Most amp designs are just copies and previous designs with small changes. I get there are people who make there livings manufacturing tube amps, but just like the internal combustion engine, we are seeing that being phased out. Most amps sound very similar anyway and it’s mainly the speaker your playing through that matters. Amps are becoming obsolete and it’s only a matter of time before you mostly see tube amps in expensive studios.

[@fbaraky660]

That day will arrive when digital becomes really good. Right now, these products are not *really* comparable to tube amps.

[@vibrevtonez2421]

@@fbaraky660 You’d never be able to tell in a mix

[@TonefulPraise]

I don’t think its a legal issue either as schematics cannot be copyrighted or trademarked. Sure, maybe they shouldn’t use the name but at the same time I’d much rather prefer the name of the amp vs something that is a silly close 2nd. It would pay homage to the amp and creator of it uses it and I would be like “wow, now I kinda know what that amp sounds like”. People are still going to buy amps and those using modelers are not going to go out of their way to buy a SLO100 in the first place, it’s a different target audience with no effect on their bottom line. If anything, someone might find the sound they love and then decide I want the real thing and buy it.

[@lolaa2200]

Your rant is misinformed, after 25years on the market any electronic circuit fall in public domain so it's 100% legal to clone/copy/reproduce ... That's international industrial property law accepted in USA and Germany and most other countries. So SLO100, VHT, Plexy, JCM, JTM, V4, Bassman, Twinn, ... all public domain ! What you say may be true for the trademarks but then i have to send you back to you own video about playing authentic : are you the same guy who made that video ??

[@freereacher]

OMG, your rant was so painful. And with respect it was pretty much BS. As you’re talking about the companies that you’re defending, I notice a pile of boutique amps next to you that are all copies of Marshall and Fender amps. Marshall amps were originally a copy of a Fender, Bassman. Let’s talk about ethics. Is it ethical to produce amplifiers that cannot be practically serviced in the future because soon there won’t be any tubes to repair them with and they burn tubes so tell me what is ethical about producing something, charging a fortune for it, and then not being able to fix it when it inevitably will die? The other thing you’re failing to realise is that Profiling will only serve to promote these boutique brands because they will create legends of amplifiers. One of my first amplifiers was a Marshall plexi. The transformer blew up it cost me a fortune. The company didn’t even release their transformers in the country. I had to put a Roost transformer transformer into it to repair it. I’ve been battling with tube amps since boutique meant going to get your hair and nails done in the same place and had nothing to do with amplifiers. Anything that can get us away from using tubes is a good thing and for humankind and superstitious guitarists alike to progress an archaic thing like a tube must be put to rest so you should be supporting companies like IK MULTIMEDIA for attempting to create a solution to musicians for something that will soon not be available any more. I have a friend that has a 1940s Gibson amplifier that I intend to profile. This is an amplifier that probably won’t see the light of day while he’s alive because he won’t risk it being damaged. And I’m sure there’s a lot of amplifiers that one can take a snapshot of and share for all to have. I mean if you take a photograph then make copy of the photograph surely you don’t have to pay homage to Canon or Nikon for making the camera for you?

[@thjorth74]

Henning, you strike me as one of the most honest gear reviewers here on KZbin. You should really do a follow up where you highlight the licensing issues that exist with the ToneX pedal. I am specifically talking about the fact that the ToneX Max license is non-transferable. So if you buy the pedal and want to sell it on, the buyer will need to purchase their own ToneX license in order to be able to transfer captures to the pedal. IK Multimedia's standard response is that you can just use the free ToneX version and use that for the librarian features. But they always "forget" to mention that the free version will only ever allow you to transfer 20 captures int total. EVER!! to the pedal. Once you have done that, you are stuck with the pedal as is if you don't pony up at least $149 for a paid ToneX license. Why am I asking you to do a video on this? Because the wording on the IK Multimedia websites and the replies that the IK Media representatives give mean that a lot of buyers are going to get bit by this when they realize that they cannot sell the pedal on if they should tire of it. Not without taking a 2/3 loss on the purchase price. It is already happening. Frankly, I think the business practices of IK Multimedia are a bit shady at best. I am mulling over this while I wait for my ToneX Pedal to be delivered from Thomann. But I am already considering cancelling the order because of this license business.

[@lolaa2200]

Thanks for the info. While i do agree with you they should be more clear about that i would argue that it's also th job of YT influencer to clarify that sort of thing and not just limit themself to repeating blindly the brand's marketing. So the shame is charred also by the many influencer that haven't done a good job of informing us.

[@pb25193]

I am living through this with their audio interface.

[@onlyguitar6521]

but you've been doing reviews on pedal clones such as Joyo, guitar clones such as Harley Benton, etc. Isn't that kind similar?

[@mynameismudd1518]

I understand your "rant" but when it comes to a Dumble? Sorry, I'm getting the profile HAHAHA!

[@ahmetayaz41]

Lehrmann is hell of a drummer. Greetings from turkei

[@PooNinja]

🤘🏽 agreed !

[@danrao3707]

Very difficult to argue with a guy wearing a picture of a hamster on his shirt. It’s best to just listen to his opinion and move on.

[@Rockerrobin]

Markets moving too fast for Amp companies. People don't want to lug around a full sized 50lb amp and 80lb 4x12. Most can't afford the top amps we all want as the majority of us are not independently wealthy or play in arena filling bands. As great as they are something like this is just better and if big amp companies want to compete they need to drop their prices, release more so the used market isn't hyper-inflated or release smaller units for the masses who don't need such a crazy expensive amp. I like there were some small mini amps that came out recently but they only got release day coverage and then no one continued doing videos on them. if you market to the masses you will make significantly more than if you market to the top 1%

[@alienlovesecrets9379]

Would it be better if you named it "Bill" - inspired by a SLO100? Don't forget that almost every amp manufacturers stole the circuitry from Leo Fender. What about that? Do you only play Fender amps? Same applies to IRs. Henning, do you use IRs and isn't that unethical, from your perspective, too?

[@JohnWiku]

And do you know where Leo Fender got his first schematic? From the RCA Tube Handbook where it showed a reference schematic, so that you could use their tubes, the same idea is still used today with chip/IC manufacturers. All tube amps derived from a standard/reference design from RCA!!

[@jorvten360]

Touring musicians are thankful leaving their rigs at home and finally beeing now compatible in their studio with the app or the pedal. I wish they came up with a pedal with a full AmpliTube & TONEX integration.

[@ksharpe10]

That may be coming, But Henning brings up a Good point is it a Copyright infringement, and are Circuits in amps. patentable anymore, I know in the 60's they were, VOX either had to pay someone for some such circuit, but they decided to use something they came up with to avoid the payment per unit sold.

[@Alex-ip9vn]

Hi Henning. Deinen Standpunkt zum "Profiling" kann ich nur unterstützen. Aber: Ich kann mich nicht mehr erinnern, wie Du zum letzten Mal einen richtigen Lautsprecher verwendet hast. Im Prinzip sind LSP IR´s auch nichts anderes, wie eine Art "Profiling". Die Firmen wie; Celestion, Jensen usw. investieren mindestens genauso viel Arbeit in die Entwicklung und die Herstellung der Lautsprecher. Natürlich sind das zwei unterschiedliche Dinge. Aber einen guten Lautsprecher im Signalverlauf finde ich ebenso ganz wichtig. Ich weiß, dass Du hauptsächlich Studioarbeit betreibst. Es ist ganz bequem, über eine App einen anderen Lautsprecher zu schalten. Ebenfalls ist es aber auch bequem, einen Amp über die App zu steuern. Vor allem, wenn man im Studio nicht so viel Platz hat. Nur als Überlegung. Gruß! Schau dich gern! 😀

[@DoctorMcFarlandStudios]

FX Return will be preferred

[@CountNetsrac]

It doesn't have neither a delay nor any modulation effects and also not an effect loop, does it? It's of course possible to put a pedal after the ToneX, but then you would have to switch it separately as long as it has no midi. And the modulation or delay would be after the reverb. In my opinion they should really have added an effects loop.

[@jackmathers738]

Agreed ... no solution for time based effects. This needs an effects loop ... or full integration with an effects system like Amplitude.

[@kostasmarinakis1459]

The guitar besides you looks like a Gibson but its not.. The same thing!

[@EytschPi42]

It’s not a digital product

[@maximogomez5613]

Well you are using Les Paul copies.. isn’t that the same thing you are ranting about?

[@EytschPi42]

It really isn’t. hardware vs Software

[@21stcenturymetal31]

Why do Germans always complain before they do anything? Man stop complaining and get to the product.

[@EytschPi42]

It is called a „review“… look it up

[@entspec]

WoW It only took 30 years but we've finally come full circle! I remember when the original Line 6 Pod came out. I got one and loved it, but many of my friends were all about "The Vox setting doesn't sound like a Vox and the Tweed Sound doesn't really sound like a Fender Tweed Amp". My response was "I don't care, listen to how good it sounds"! At the time absolutely nothing came close. I want a great tone to use in my music, the name of that tone is completely irrelevant to me! This is how I have felt about this ever since then. This is why I like the way UA & Brainworks and similar companies do things. They create a plugin in co-operation with the company that made the amp and pay them for their tone and branding. So you can have a good approximation of "That tone" while supporting the companies that make the physical products so they can keep designing and building great products for those who can afford them. One day I think we'll see companies releasing plugin versions of prototype amps for market research and to create a demand for a physical version.

[@jamescuttsmusicjcm5013]

i was the same with the pod back then. i didnt care a monkeys for what the amps were supposed to be. i just cared that they sounded good. looking back... they didn't sound so good as it happens. just amazing for the time. hahaha. i wish i had this stuff years ago, but i am glad that we have it now.

[@williamphillips24]

I'm the same. I don't care if it's a harmonic correct JCM800 or not - it just has to sound great in the context it's being used in.

[@rick.enbacker]

I like your ethics, Henning 🙂 I use a Laney VC50 with 1 IR and i don't really need anything else. If i use different IRs, it will sound completely different. I think one good versatile amp, a versatile guitar, and 1-3 IRs and you can do just about any style with great sound.

[@markbois1713]

I agree with what you say about the hard work these builders put into their circuts. They are basically getting ripped off. But when you get up on stage, you don't have said Amp behind you if you are using some kind of modeling gizmo. Although I think you have an awesome setup of sweet amps. I personally could never utilize them to their full potential in my musical situation. They would be too bulky and loud. I realize I could attenuate, but I never liked that. I'm down to 20 Watt tube amps, and I still get told that I am too loud.

[@DanieleGiannattasio]

Henning, you are holding an exact copy of a Les Paul, 100% stolen design with nothing added :D you can live with a couple of profiles... and by the way, if Kemper gave me a version of it without the capability to profile amps, maybe even smaller and cheaper, I'd be incredibly happy!

[@EytschPi42]

Hardware vs Software… Software can be shared by the millions. Amp designs and guitars designs still have to be built and are not exact copies of the original and don’t claim to be.

[@DanieleGiannattasio]

@@EytschPi42 Kemper is both hardware and software, completely new technology that has been copied by others. It doesn't steal an amp, it has nothing to do with an amp but it captures a snapshot of a particular sound, and as you say the controls are totally different and you can't interact with it the same way you would do with the original amp. You can't use its software on its own. Guitar companies don't need to claim they sell Les Paul copies, it's pretty clear they are exact copies and they are making a living stealing other people's designs (I bet you would be pissed off if someone started selling an exact copy of your signature guitar). Remember when you couldn't say "strat" but you really wanted to? 😂 Even though they were strat shaped guitars. Hardware copies are also shared by the millions, and I don't think numbers make any difference when it comes to ethics and copying. Any guitar clone is much more unethical than a profile. Just my opinion! :)

[@mottilie9652]

I don't think that companies like IK Multimedia use other brands names for their own business without paying license fees. So i don't see any ethical problems here. If a user captures his own for example Marshall amp and shares this capture on ToneNET for free, why not calling it Marshall? After all, it is the capture of a Marshall amp! I don't see any ethical problems here either.

[@chartranddave]

Complete and utter hypocrisy!....Why is it ok to play a guitar that is meant to be a Strat or a Tele or a Les Paul but changes the shape or the heel joint or the headstock enough that it technically avoids copyright but everyone knows EXACTLY which guitar's reputation it is piggybacking on?? IT'S. EXACTLY. THE. SAME. THING!

[@FunkyELF]

Love how passionate you are. I see your point but people paying $400 to get 150 captures at $2.66 each weren't going to buy those amps anyway. When you buy a multisampled piano VST none of that money goes to Steinway. I would totally watch a 1 hour debate between people on both sides of this issue... And I'd probably agree with both sides, lol.

[@ksharpe10]

You and ME both, it is an ethical question, and does it have an Answer, we knew technology would keep going forward. When did it Cross the non Sinful use part of it?

[@williambaldwin7611]

Here is the thing...and what excites me about the tonex. I can get a good profile of my own amp and I can now use that for a consistent recording experience. I can also try other people's profiles and if I like them and I know what it's based on, I now know what amp I would like to buy next. You're right if all I cared about was recording, then it wouldn't matter, but that's not the case. At least for me.

[@alexdenton6586]

Profiling is bad , M’kay !

[@christianhausen5530]

Just a thought Henning: Marshall started by copying and changIng the Fender Bassman, Mesa Boogie the same with the Fender Princeton, Soldano with Mesa Boogie Mark II ...

[@christiandiegoalcocer]

I would download a Ferrari.

[@JoeBaermann]

Like the Preamp Live the ToneX seems ok, has some lacks that the none profiler Amp Academy does better. DI out with high resolution IR’s (what about speaker and mic ethics?) which has it’s own master volume and a high and low pass filter. If you ever want to run to an amp with cabs and DI with IR out to a mixer that seperation is a must, besides that why would you not want balanced DI out? While the Preamp Live does offer XLR it does not offer it’s seperate volume neither the pass filters, which leaves issues that should have been solved within the box. The amp profiling ethic talk is a piece of bullcrap, if you really want to put it on a stake you should apply that logic to guitars, pedals and other products too.

[@michaelmitchell5909]

4 modern gotta be the deizel vh4

[@JimijaymesProductions]

While I agree with the whole copying the look and other trademark stuff when it comes to the sound it is different. The rectifier is an slo100 preamp with a new power amp, the slo itself a hot rodded jcm800. Maybe brands should allow the manufacturers to licence their look for profile stuff. For me personally I'd use the tone x for my amps and plugins and pedal chains together not just to buy other peoples rectifier profile because I want to sound like my rectifier.

[@warrioroflight2781]

If they're making no amps, there is nothing to profile - thank you Henning ♥️

[@faethe000]

There are so many amps on the world that they could all stop and we'd have enough modeled amps to last forever

[@gratefulpipeandcigar3239]

That was a great talk about profiling and brand-name amps. You hit the nail on the head.

[@josearaujo8616]

Don't mix rants with reviews, it just does not work...

[@EytschPi42]

Totally works

[@RockGuitarVibes]

Sorry, still don't get it! Kemper bashing because of their profile naming, ToneX does the same and additionally adds pretty obvious amp images - but ToneX is great ??? And I remember somebody who the was involved in the Joyo bantamp naming - aren't in the amp names hints to their originals?

[@EytschPi42]

I worked with a brand that was heavily into cloning and I tried to get them away from that. Having names that only hinted at it was the best I could convince them to do at the time. I also make a distinction between hardware and something that can be digitally shared. People copying CDs didn’t hurt the artists much.. Napster did.

[@RockGuitarVibes]

@@EytschPi42 I don't like the analogy with mp3 files because a mp3 is a 100% copy of what you get - however, as we all agree a profile is a single snapshot out of 1 billion possibilities, so it's a incomplete copy. And why is copying CD's (Hardware) better than copying mp3's (Software)? I think you missed the point - it's rather the platform they provide for sharing files you don't like! But that's exactly what Kemper, ToneX and others do. So you either have to stop Kemper bashing or stop making videos to promote such stuff, Henning, I highly respect your work but don't sell your soul! BTW: For me the naming is more kind of a tone genre - so if a profile or amp clone is called Orangle or Citrus I immidiately know, uh, don't touch it's pretty likely I'll not like it. But hey, maybe I can get convinced from the oppsite by trying out one of these profiles and in the next step I'll purchase the real deal because a profile is only a single tone snapshot.

[@Xperize666]

Ich mache jetzt seit über 25 Jahren Musik, aber bisher hat mich noch kein KZbin Video so mitgenommen wie dieses hier. Ja, leider hat er aber recht. Ich meine das ist ja schon beim pod schon eigentlich nicht in Ordnung gewesen, dass man da quasi als Anfänger gemerkt hat. Oh guck mal! Hier hast du diesen tollen Sound von diesem tollen amp, wo sie da ja auch mitgespielt haben mit dem Bezeichnungen und leider ist auch der Satz vollkommen richtig. Jeder der sich sowas kauft und sagt och super. Dann spare ich eine Menge Geld und habe ja doch die den Sound der ganz tollen Geräte zu Hause denkt an seinem Satz, den er gesagt hat und der ist leider wahr. Wenn jeder so denken würde, dann herzlichen Glückwunsch. Wird es bald keine neuen amp Hersteller mehr geben? Denn wozu sollen die noch neue Ems herstellen, wenn sie dann am Ende als pro voll irgendwo landen, wo sie dann nichts von haben?

[@Xperize666]

Ja, aber blablabla. Wie soll ich denn einen fetten Metal Sound hinkriegen ? Sonst kriege ich doch keinen Plattenvertrag 🤦. Ihr kleinen D***batzen. Ich habe mit einem Boss hm2 und ein Transistor amp ein der erfolgreichsten deutschen Death Metal Songs aufgenommen (über 500.000 Streams alleine auf Spotify)Skin her Alive ,With Thorns in my Eyes. Natürlich geht das, es kommt nicht drauf an was man benutzt. Es kommt auf die Leute drauf an, wie sie es benutzen und wie sie es abmischen und einsetzen einfach mal googeln. Sunlight Studio und für alle anderen gibt es zb. Revv g20 mit eingebauten Two Notes Torpedo.Damut könnt ihr auch super mit recorden und habt einen eigenen Sound und unterstützt die Leute von Revv, die das Ding schliesslich auch konzipiert haben. Und das beste kommt zum Schluss. Ihr habt euren eigenen Sound, den keiner anderer haben kann

[@impossivel2006]

Fuck it, I'm cloning a Ferrari

[@Always_in_C_standard]

Can you clone me a large house while you are at it? 😀👍

[@impossivel2006]

@@Always_in_C_standard I'm going Oprah style. You get a mansion, and you get a mansion.....everybody gets a mansion.

[@chrischris3847]

Amazing demo, just great ! To be improved : missing an on-board DELAY, but mostly an FX LOOP, and an integrated EXPRESSION PEDAL. Then, this will become the winner in the game

[@hukl3945]

I get your problem with profiles using the names and visuals of known brands but here is an argument for it: When I get a pedal that comes with presets or models, I know in my mind that I want to go for a Fender'ish sound and the visuals and names will help me quickly find the sound I'm after. If I want an Orangy kind of sound, I know what to look for. I'd do the same if I'd profile my amps - simply to find quicker what I want. It would be great though if a manufacturer like IK comes out with a pedal that has these presets, that a commission would be paid to the manufacturers.

[@PippPriss]

The ethical argument is in my opinion pointless, because amps are circuits chained together, and circuits mostly stem from datasheets of the respective component vendors. It's the chaining of these things which then make the full product. But the same goes for the coding. Where do you draw the line, that intellectual property might be concerned? Especially given the fact that a lot of your KZbin-Channel Growth, and what allows you to do these great videos stem from the Joyo Line, which in fact are all copycats of other schematics, makes me question how thoughtful the ethical argument is. I get, that you have a certain nostalgic compassion toward tube amplifiers, and I do see, that with the world we are in today, it's hard to start a business on building amps. But I actually think, that modelling, profiling and what not, together with collaborations on gear demos actually enhance the visibility of these smaller amp makers than the other way around. Since there are no true heroes anymore in the guitar community (like Eddie Van Halen and Co. in their respective time), the chances that somebody is seen with a cool new amp and everybody is driven to replicate that persons tone are very low. Anyhow, I do see where you are coming from, but I simply disagree, and that's okay. It doesn't change anything on that this video is incredible good production value and you done a great job making this.

[@Guttalaser]

Man, I understand and appreciate your ethical concerns 'coz... at the end o' times... you are f**ing right! BUT... push your tought about it a little further and think about... the WHOLE "digital domain". Even the dozen of DAWs available today are somenthing that many years ago you could never have purchased. And what about vst synths (expecially those "repro" ones of superpriced vintage keyboars), superpriced acoustic instruments... and so on. When some time ago the "digital" version of the world... was a "mimic" version of the real things... lacking of "reality" it was: yeahmmmhBUT Nowdays (at least in a mix) those digital things are indistinguishable from the real super$$$$ hardware (and you have tons of $$$ hardware in that rack behind you). "Democatization" of the digital times ... is a fact Baby! Think about tons and tons of cab IRs that are in your drives instead in a warehouse... Think about tons and tons of amp heads, keyboards, synths, acoustic pianos, stellar outboards, mix consoles, efxs... So... your concerns is applicable to all of these "digital versions" of the real things... and even to te vinyl2file2music platform change in the whole music industry. And think... just in these days... abot what A.I. can do. So... i think your concerns... is now reduced to a purely "legal" copyright question about the use of a "name". My50cents

[@vaanrodriguez]

the most stupid teory about why someone dont like profiles. I was thinking he would say something to the sound or feeling, but he compared it to stealing a ferrari haha

[@garystackhouse5787]

What's REALLY killing amp manufacturer's is club owners who insist your rock band limit itself to some ridiculous dB limit. Of course, the ONLY way to achieve that is to get rid of an amp and cab and either profile or model a rig to run direct and hear it through in-ears. Unless you're playing arenas or in a studio with an iso room, it's no longer feasible for the average guitar player from the average band playing medium to small rooms to even play through a 15 watt amp. The ONLY solution is a direct rig. The reason for club owners moving in this direction is shitty sound guys with VD (Volume Disease) who don't know how to create a properly EQ'd and processed mix that sounds nice and loud but doesn't make people's ears bleed!! The REAL solution to saving the amp is to teach a generation of new live sound engineers the secret of getting a mix that is nice and loud, but doesn't rip people's ears out!

[@capoman1]

I see no ethical dillema. Amps make sound. Now plugins and pedals/units also make sound... Additionally eqs and effect pedals modify sound, now so do plugins and pedal units... SO IS IT UNETHICAL to use the eq in your unit? Cause you used to have to purchase an eq unit... The amp or cab element is no different. Hell we have mic modelers now.

[@Proganaut1989]

I remember my digittech days..clean crunch lead. Now if you get a modeler or profiler with 50 amps...we are like ...only 50?

[@ofershragay]

" It is not exactly " = you just solved the problem with ethics.

[@davidalbrec]

That was an impressively well articulated, and in my mind persuasive, statement on the ethics of profiling.

[@diegooliveras1952]

Yeah and he review and promote Tube screamer clones and strat style guitars

[@andrewrwhitfield]

With 100’s of profiles it’s the amp name that would help me find my desired sound much quicker. The sound I associate with the amp name, which in turn I associate with the people who play them. Example… if I’m learning a track by band x, band x uses a gained up rectifier… so I look for the profile based on this amp. Just quicker and more convenient. I do get where you’re coming from though… suppose in that case of you just called it band x heavy sound. That would do the job 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@davelouis4004]

I purchased the SLO pedal because of the sound , not for the name , if it sounded like crap , I would not have , most gear heads would like to be able to purchase high end boutique amps , but for those who can’t , profiling in a small package works , it’s as close as we can get !

[@riffraff6585]

What about the amps that sounds like say, vox, marshall. Which you have a couple expensive amps that do that.

[@jrhager84]

The reason it's important to label them is because they're usually known for their sonic signature. Imagine how hard it would be instead of saying I want a 5150 style amp, to say I want a really high-gain blah blah amp. It would be a giant time waste, and everybody knows what it's modeling anyways.

[@capoman1]

The sound vs the name is not an ethical issue. You want the sound. BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE NAME of the things you are checking out when going through presets. Its for convenience, not for theft.

[@SixShine]

I’ve had this for a while now, but mine is white. It’s called the Mooer Preamp Live. Jokes aside, how does the compare to the other “affordable” capture devices, like the afore mentioned Mooer, or Positive Grid’s Bias software/hardware offerings.

[@nobodyhaslogin]

TBH, that's a good point in the rant part. All I can say - honestly I don't care that much about the looks and branding if the sound is right for me. All I want to know is how can I replicate it? If I find it on a profiler (without knowing any background for the most amps), can I replicate it somehow without the Tonex pedal? Also a big question: if I like the sound I designed in this profiler or in a software, should I be forced to learn about different sounds of different amps again or is it fine for me to roughly know the amp and the cab I used in software? Just a thought. Also I know it's too late for you (seen your review of Tonex One), but still, it's a thought.

[@klisher]

Totally agree if it sounds good, it is good. i never heard of amps lie the Soldano or VH, dumble etc.. before i got amplitube. (yes i know all the pre 1980 amps like marshall, fender, Vox and orange) so i dont care what its called as long as it fulfils the brief.

[@capoman1]

I don't see an ethical dillema. You still DON'T HAVE THE PHYSICAL AMP like you compared to not being able to own a Ferrari.

[@metalmover]

Upon looking it seems there’s no effects loop....just like the UAFX pedals....I’d buy pedals like this every time just to check out....but no effects loop is a big turn off.

[@ifodaniell]

Maybe it's not FUZZ. Maybe it's FU ZZ. Software? Amplitube 5 works stand-alone, so you don't need DAW software running Amplitube 5 as a VST.

[@xxxShingTxxx]

It is an Interesting ethical stand point. Although how many Gibson and Fender style guitars do you own where the builders paid zero in licence fees to Fender or Gibson? Just asking

[@EhsanImani]

Can we make the same rant argument with digital modelers? or it's just for profilers? cause the same reasoning exist with the amp modeling plugins too.

[@liotcik]

Nobody needs 1000amps. Even scrolling thru so many options sucks all you creativity out. Pedal should have 15 or 20 good amps to cover all styles. One person needs maybe 3.

[@ksharpe10]

Well same argument could be made for. Marshall came about as a result of USING FENDER(LEO) Bassman Circuit, as far as i know they never paid Fender any royalties for it's use, because they modified it to some certain degree. Just throwing this out there for to chew on. It most likely was going to happen. How did Vox Valvestate Model there stuff?? I have no clue, Pod was pre Kemper too. Are Algorhythms patentable? Good Questions. Is there a set in STONE, 10 Commandments standard for this? Another GOOD Question? IT is probably why TONEX photos of the Actual SORT OF amps, is not exact. NOW in Amplitube, And a couple others I saw they have actual photo of say a Mesa Mk2C+ with the mesa name and all, did they pay Mesa to use the PHOTO, maybe?

[@thethings4708]

First off all , i like youre video ( most of them...) BUT to be honest ... i STOP watching this one at 13 minutes... And it is NOT about if youre right OR wrong , but about ANOTHER topic .... I see the title IK tone X Review... and about 13 minutes later i am watching a video about ``moral`` and what is wright OR wrong ... Just think it is VERY personnal point of view ( wright or wrong ...) but kind of conversation you maybe need to have with Corporation OR friends ... At least make a video about this topic with a title relate to this topic . Nothing personal her , like i said i like most of youre videos . But now i just think in the world we live today , i don`t cry myself out about Corporation who make some VERY EXPENSIVE gear for most of ``POOR`` musicians .If i want to change the world , I will likely choose my ``combat`` ; talk and cry about REALLY IMPORTANT stuff ( WAR , INFLATION , MIGRATION , etc...) . I like to watch about 30 min each day video on youtube ( don`t have much time these days...) , because the rest of the time i have to take care about familly ( work ... ) . SORRY , but for me today it is just a waste of time ( half of my 30 min...) , just wrong topic/title... So i hope you don' t feel ""hurt"" about my comment , maybe just out of subject this time.

[@VanjaSpirin]

I have some good and pricey amps (ENGL and Markbass), and I don't rant about modeling those amps. Actually I use them only live. For recording I use Neural DSP plugins, Soldano, Gojira and Paralax. And nobody even cares, the only important thing is final product. Next thing is going to be Tonex.

[@shorerocks]

It might just be a preamp from the Synergy system, but I bought a Bogner Überschall just because I fell in love with a corresponding Kemper profile.

[@Always_in_C_standard]

This is the same as making a mp3 copy of a CD you own Vs downloading them for free. I'd be much happier if companies got paid for each capture you buy as having amp names makes it much easier to find the sound you are after Vs Face melter 4

[@RobertNaik]

I think boss don’t give amp names and I agree with your argument. But saying that I have a telly Fgn which I guess is a clone. They should make a new sound that is not based on any amp. Guitar is stuck in the past. Or even build there own amp and capture that. I guess this is about just being as good as the competition sound wise but cheaper. The other thing is I’m not really going to buy any of these amp as music is a hobby for me. I like have 1 listen a month on Spotify.😂

[@DoSeOst]

I only care for the sound not for the brand. Also sound especially clean is in the fingers. Brand names are used for models to help people know what sound to expect. I would prefer descriptive language for this but like whine tasting that is very difficult to do accurately. 25 years ago I bought a Johnson Marquis JM60 with a second 12" cab. The amp models 18 amps with analog circuits. They are arrange in three groups of six amps labeled American, British and Johnson. I still like the sounds of this amp very much. Its variety was very usefull when I used to play Top40 music. Nowadays I tend to reuse sounds I like and try to sound like myself and not like the recording of the original band when I play covers.

[@robzillopez]

It's just another stomp box that will make sounds that you like,, if you like it good get one. I've had so many different toys that make my playing better so enjoy your life with the music you make!!!!!! And rest in peace Sonya my lovely wife of 39years i love you too much especially when you bought me a flyin V when I turned years old,, now im 60 and I miss my mambozz so much!!!!!

[@Fistful0fSteel]

I think the obvious Soldano sound from Amplitude 5 sounds like balls...So no I don't care about the name...but some people might...Not to bash IK, I just bought the Z Tone DI...😂

[@zafira976]

13:28 - 13:31, the wisest thing you've ever said and something that should sink into guitarist/knuckleheads! They come up with all different excuses to do the wrong thing. Most of these youngsters haven't even played through a real amp...EVER! "Well I don't have the money"...perhaps you should go out there get a job and SAVE THE MONEY to see what that tone you want is worth, cause you really don't know! It's almost pointless trying to speak sense into them. I got people asking me why I am still paying £3.000 to buy amp heads when I could buy a Kemper or one of the toys in this video and have all the sounds in there...go figure. Sitting in a simulator is not the same thing as flying, that's why! You're fooling yourself that you are but we all know that the simulation will never behave and react the same way. Anyhow...for those who get it, it's worthwhile saying these things although it may well be a tiny percentage of players

[@jimmcdougall9973]

He says, playing a Gibson replica, with P90’s, and just a different name on the headstock… it’s still an LP ripoff. Tonex itself is a ripoff of Christoph Kemper’s technology. You shouldn’t plug your guitar into it, it’s immoral! It’s easy to talk when you can afford every amp under the sun. But when I buy a professionally made profile, call MeBoo, based on a Mesa Boogie (a specific tone I wanted btw), I’m unethical. Someone’s ethics are twisted, and are only applied when it suits them. My rant.

[@bobdelellis]

I understand your ethical issues with capturing and naming tone models after the amp and using an obvious amp image, but still found it quite ironic (and maybe a touch hypocritical) to then pick up copy of a Les Paul to demo the captured sounds. I guess it's still OK to have an exact copy of Les Paul as long as it doesn't say Les Paul on the headstock. Totally different...right? Can you imagine how long it would take to find a tone model if you didn't get to describe what it is? There could be hundreds or eventually thousands of amp models called "modern hi-gain", "classic British" or "American clean". BTW, once it's in the pedal there are no amp images and you can name it whatever you want, so there's that. I still gave you a thumbs up for another quality video. I just did an amp model of MY 1968 50-watt plexi that has been so heavily modded that the only thing that makes it still a Marshall is the cabinet, chassis and plexi face plate. It was first modded by Lee Jackson and later by Dave Friedman. It's a monster of a Marshall and having it in the Tonex software and pedal is absolutely awesome. I have it in my Quad Cortex, Tonex AND Kemper. I love this technology.

[@enuxs]

Even I have a Kemper and an Axe-Fx III which are great tools, I always prefer one of my tube amps, a great guitar cabinet and some decent pedals with a high quality loop switcher. A real rig is more expensive and heavier of course, but I always found a profile, capture, snapshot - a sounds like current settings thing - too limited. And of course I like, that the money goes to traditional amp, cabinet and pedal builders. At the end that is, where all the great tones come from. Of course there will be the next Innovation and the next it never sounded better thing. But I love to design and built my own signature signal chain (with blood and sweat) with finest hardware representing my tone. And I also love not being asked to share profiles, captures, snapshots or having updates f***ing up my presets.

[@mattc1176]

I find the logic of the rant quite hard to follow, and disagree. A profile is much more akin to a sample of eg a drum machine. You'll hear an 808 sample in a pop record probably several times every day if you listen to mainstream radio. Using an original machine is a different experience and they still sell for a lot of money. The company can't "own" the sound of its amplifiers as part of IP - where would you draw the line? Guitar strings? Plectrums? Capos? Tuners? On use of logos, trademarks etc, companies have the exact same protections as in any other sector and recourse to the rule of law to defend their work (at least in the west). So if Diezel amplifiers don't like someone using 'Deezel' for example & believe their rights to have been infringed, they should take legal action. As for the argument about people desiring the brand name vs the quality of the sound, there is plenty of empirical evidence from the sampling world - where the quality of sampling is hugely sought after and there are plenty of mediocre and poor samples of great instruments that fall by the wayside. The market is pretty good at deciding what is a good quality sound in my experience (of course there are exceptions to this).

[@perryadams3159]

It's funny you mention not being morally ethical about profiling specific amps...my first gigging rig (because I couldn't afford a real amp) was a Korg Ax30G into a solid state clean amp. The Ax30g models were "6l6" and "el34". Listening back, the models aren't great compared to today's modeling, but I actually had more fun playing this than any of the current models. Part of that is, in my opinion, because it was its own thing, and not trying to copy a specific popular amp.

[@KetogenicGuitars]

You are possibly missing the other possible application which is that ToneX helps me to find out which amps I really like and which amps I want to buy. Because all the ToneX amps are strongly labelled by the originals now there is one stop place to find out what sounds like this and that. Of course it depends on the quality of the modelling engineer's work but it is better than nothing. The old fashioned way is to buy them all and find out(after 30 years) that the cheapest and smallest is the one you like most. Currently I think 40% of the sound is in the cab. 20% is in player who is supposed to play something sensible. 20% is the amp. 20% is the guitar. In this context "The Cab" is only a FIR filter(impulse response). It means it has any kind of(arbitrary) frequency response compared to regular filter plugin. Then it possibly tames the amp and also possibly makes it sound delicious. More often not.

[@michaelk5507]

Henning, I truly appreciate your view and I sympathize 100%. You are defending the rights of small manufacturers who have worked long and hard to create their amps. Ethics have virtually nothing to do with how modern Capitalism functions. Sorry, I used the 'Capitalism' word! It's ruthless in destroying the old and creating the new, without sentimentality. This goes all the way back to the handloom weavers in 18th century Britain, who starved when th factory system took over weaving. Poor weavers. Germany has a lot of small, family-based manufacturers. Part of German culture. Around 500,000 of them. They are all in trouble. Germany is be 'deindustrialised' by powerful market forces. Digitalisation is... magical in many ways, but also a colossal threat to the livelihoods of millions and millions of people. Now, AI is on the cusp of being able to compete and proabably replace lots of professional, middle-class jobs as well, not just factory workers anymore. This raises lots of profound questions. It's not just about a pedal. The pedal is just a symptom of profound changes in the ruthless modern marketplace.

[@JorisGriffioen]

You're railing against aspirational consumerism. There's an argument there but it's really not limited to profiling. It doesn't really track with doing videos for Synergy modules like the 800 either IMO. I look for JCM800 profiles because I know how that amp sounds and responds, it's just a property of said profile that helps find the ones that might work for me. You're right about (at least) one thing: the skeuomorphic UI thing is dumb as hell.

[@chrisinglik4115]

Profiling Rant is probably the most important part of this video, for nobody seems to really see the issue. So hats off to you! But it's effing exactly the same as playing Les Paul copy just because somebody out there wants to earn money by selling guitar shape created by Gibson. I know that it's now OK. It's common to do a Stratocaster body plus slightly different headstock. We're used to it. And creating "captures" of amp is new. So now we see the issue, don't we? And then, isn't it strange that so many other companies get lot's of money from Leo Fender's intellectual properties? If you don't have money for Ferrari, are you going to clone one almost exactly the same but maybe with slightly different shape of mirrors? That's what it is with so many companies selling designs either of Gibson or Fender.

[@Mendelian]

Fully devil’s advocate here but: Why is there an ethical discussion about amp capturing and using their names, but no issue/discussion using drum plugins (SD3 for an example) and having all the full kit/drum names in there? As in: Isn’t a guitar player choosing TONEX and a Soldano capture instead of buying the Soldano the same as a drummer using an E-Kit with SD3 TAMA kit loaded up vs buying the actual TAMA kit 🤔

[@EytschPi42]

Very good Point… however, using a e-Kit and playing samples is far enough away from the real thing to not be an adequate replacement. It is a heavy compromise… these profiles can do the full job of that amp at that setting. But yes…. Naming the kit pieces in the software and showing the kits is technically the same thing. Very good point.

[@edhauser6052]

If you want to talk about "stealing thunder from other amp companies" what about your guitars that are designed and made to look like other guitars.....just to make sales? Also by the law of large numbers...chances are the someone somewhere may have your setup, there's a lot of guitars and amps out there! So all we are talk about is sharing an idea to spark someone who is lost in the tone swamp out there. The three "custom made super secret tones" were just average IMHO. I think some of the stock tones are far superior. I have also found IK's customer service to be sub par...very subpar. I have asked questions and needed help and received an answer one time (so vague that it didn't help me AT ALL) I do agree with you...to mis quote food aficionado Andrew Zimmeran, if it sounds good PLAY IT!! Lastly I really did like your original song...where do I buy it? Even if we don't agree, I like your videos..... I just can't fall in line like so many others do...we all need to colour with different crayons....not just one color Have a great time on the island!

[@petrkorinek9559]

Your philosophy is exactly my point of view when buying Tonex. I'm profiling my own amp to take it with me on the road. Instead of having the whole car loaded with an amp, cab and a pedalboard, I'm just taking the pedalboard

[@ILoveTelecasters]

I’d argue that the profiles that look like the original unit might actually end up attracting new costumers that otherwise wouldn’t buy their product. No one thinks they actually have a soldano when it’s in plug-in form. But they might end up loving enough to buy the real thingb

[@tobiasheinrich104]

After getting Tonex, I honestly just listened to the tone of the profile and deleted everything that didn't sound superb. Now I have about 150 amp/cab combinations left and they ALL come from all sorts of different amps, not even necessarily expensive ones.

[@hereonmars]

I was thinking this too. I just ordered mine and I'm thinking I want to get sounds from my boss katana using pedals I built myself in front of it that I love.

[@martinprice1738]

These things are fun. Spent a good part of today having a great time playing the TONEX dual rectifier on my iPad, sounds amazing ‘just like the record’. But, after all that I played through my real Victory amp and it’s like being able to breath again. The modelled amps just don’t respond like the real thing, for me it feels like they offer a much smaller tonal palette. I doubt many people would actually give up a real amp for one of these, great as they are. It’s a different tool for a different job.

[@sinanhelvaci6159]

Hi Henning, You are right what you said.But you are using Gibson Les Paul copy guitar.Why are you using original Gibson Les Paul custom guitar? They steal the shape of Gibson Les Paul custom shop. As a result of the problem is purchasing power of persons who wants to make music at high level. Whatever amps or guitars original amps & original guitars,original effects pedals are very expensive..

[@sergigarciaprat]

Are you telling me that you wouldn't use a technology that can provide you, at the price of a Volkswagen, the sensation of driving a Ferrari, a Lamborghini and 50 more cars? Are you telling me you would call that a steal? I call it democratization of technology. And I'm loving it!