I Refute Rose Anvil's Alden Dangerously Reductive Indy Take

[@treygreenleaf7878]

The biggest takeaway from Weston is this: Why are Alden fanboys defending Alden, as opposed to asking them to be a better company?

[@chicagoan6342]

Remember he called them Alden apologists 😂😂

[@ynysvon]

​@seppukusushi2848 You obviously have no self-awareness. Your ticking all the boxes for being the 🤡 in this debate.

[@snuffspoon]

@@seppukusushi2848 are we 12 and on xbox now?

[@mynameisben123]

I mean there is such a thing as fanboyism. People want to justify why they already spent so much money…

[@thesheepthemightythecrazy]

So true. It is why no Porsche owners ever say bad things, they don't want to appear stupid.

[@EdAb]

Fairly priced? 1:22 Respectfully (seriously), your answer doesn't cut it. Viberg produces comparable products, with classic handmade craftsmanship, with the highest labour costs (Vancouver Island labour is off the chart expensive!). When you consider the components used, Viberg offers way more value for money than today's Alden. The Alden style and folklore is unique, for sure, but I don't think those attributes should play a meaningful roll in the kind of value assessment Weston is making. Those intangible "features" can only be judged by an individual and are meaningless in a "value for money" discussion. Kind regards, Ed

[@Gustav555]

I would have to mildly argue that Vibergs are a bit overpriced as well. They boast the "small handmade" type manufacturing, but in reality they are a fairly sizable company and it's predominantly machines doing the actual boot building process.

[@EdAb]

@@Gustav555 We can all have our unique, equally valid opinions regarding price. My only point was, for equal money, I got better materials and better build quality in the Vibergs I bought, and they were built by well paid, first world craftsmen. Having seen the shop floor in person, and having been fitted in their warehouse, I can assure you (whatever that's worth) they are a "small", labour intensive operation. Machines are used, but no more so than Alden and human involvement is as high as I have ever seen in any shoe making operation. They aren't hand stitched, but I doubt Aldens are hand stitched either. Cheers

[@treygreenleaf7878]

Well said. Vibergs are also overpriced, but your explanation around labor cost is a great point

[@MrStreetninja007]

​@brians8618 if they weren't based where they are they would cost less with their location having the highest tax and then import frees i believe without that they would be 600

[@scotcherton]

The answer to defend their pricing was obviously unbelievable - and I don’t feel even he believed it. His defensive tone clearly shows he knows it ridiculous but doesn’t want to admit they are not fairly priced.

[@jsanc316]

I see we're using "refute" very loosely here. The "it's made in the USA so obvi it's gonna cost a lot even with subpar components" doesn't hold water. Plenty of MITUSA boots made for same or cheaper prices. If people want to overpay for these because they're thee Alden Indys then sure. There's a lot to be said about subjective appraisals of what something is worth. But let's not say the price is justified based on materials and workmanship. It's not.

[@spartanbike2260]

Rose Anvil is a nice guy. i would have demolished him. he never answered Rose question. all leather/natural aldens vs current version. he did not have the cajones to give a clear yes or no .

[@hazindu]

Yeah, a lot of word salad for very few points, but I'm glad they can sit down and talk about it.

[@WizzdummHeadley]

EXACTLY!!! What it comes down to is fanboyism/brandism that people use to justify/rationalize spending a lot of money on things that aren't worth it PERIOD!

[@binglenator]

If whites can make a handsewn all leather boot for around $800 then alden should be able to make a goodyear welt boot with whites quality components for the same price…

[@ynysvon]

I agree. Alden has got a strong customer base who doesn't seem bothered, so it's all about the markup. Minimise the costs to maximise the profits.

[@franky3fingers337]

The sad thing is that the upgrades (imo) wouldn’t even cost that much. The labor is already there and the costs of more leather would be minimal in the grand scheme of the boot cost. They can charge $670 instead of $650. Alden doesn’t do it because they don’t have too. They don’t think their customer base cares or knows better. But that is changing.

[@TheSpiikki]

Well said

[@snuffspoon]

even if they do know better stitchdown here, didn't want to answer if the components are worth the price

[@usmnt4423]

Alden’s price point and material/build quality is entirely inexcusable. You can’t refute what Weston is demonstrating to everyone who watches his videos on Aldens.

[@JJ-zr6fu]

Yeah I wanted Alden’s but unfortunately couldn’t justify it once I saw what they looked liked after he wore them for a while

[@mmmcmahon3536]

Love your show and site but nothing you said, in my opinion, refuted what Weston has said. You primarily expressed an opinion based largely on sentimentality.

[@stitchdown]

Thank you! Really appreciate it. And I get where you're coming from, but to me, if expensive boots and shoes don't have meaning beyond what's inside them, a story to tell and something I'm EXCITED to be sentimental about, or want to preserve...then something's lacking for me honestly. Doesn't hurt that every pair of Indys I've ever had-same with two pair of Alden plain toe Trubalance boots-are legit the most comfortable GYW boots I've ever owned.

[@hockbury45]

I own Lofgren, Viberg, Grant Stone, Trickers, and Parkhurst. I will never own Alden because the value proposition is not there.

[@mannycalavera2335]

I love all these brands. I think Trickers in particular in underrated on KZbin due to not being a US brand.

[@THEWICKERMANMX]

Those are not arguments, thats just a feeling, you are not refuting anything, you just talk like a fanboy

[@ethanalexander875]

They just seem like a money grab. A product that could be the class leader but chooses not to be. You can’t possibly tell me that at that price point you couldn’t have better materials in those shoes. I would love to see how much it actually costs to make a pair of Indy’s. I bet some people’s opinions would change.

[@Softw4re]

Agreed.

[@timothynguyen4446]

Alden’s are already a class leader in that there is literally only a single other manufacturer that makes GYW American-style dress and boot wear, Allen Edmonds, and whatever you want to say about Alden, they are clearly a class above AEs in every aspect.

[@Enrico-]

@@timothynguyen4446 they're not literally the only other GYW american shoemaker. They're just the 2 largest and most famous companies.

[@timothynguyen4446]

@@Enrico-name another American GYW dress shoemaker

[@Enrico-]

@@timothynguyen4446 Oak Street Bootmaker in Chicago, Rancourt in Lewiston.

[@Softw4re]

Lmao what does it being made in the usa and having skilled workers have to do with low quality materials. He asked you a simple question but your patriotism is getting in the way of answering honestly. Look at Grant Stone. That isnt made im the USA and its by far one of the highest quality material and labor we've seen.

[@averyj.steele1074]

If that's the level of argument being fronted here, I'm not even going to listen. That kind of blind jingoism is just a pure garbage take, I don't need to hear it to know.

[@tommysmith7031]

If you spent to money on Aldens and have been a fan for a long time, it would be hard to say that well they were overpriced subsequently. It was the same with Common Projects, an expensive brand was shown to use the same materials as cheaper alternatives.

[@timothynguyen4446]

This is just a completely poor reading of what Ben is saying; anyone who is remotely familiar with Stitchdown knows that he and most of the people he is speaking for absolutely love Grant Stone

[@BB-gl7zt]

​​@@timothynguyen4446I think you read OPs comment incorrectly, actually. Pretty ironic.

[@nikolanottesla]

You're usually on point, Ben, but this is probably your weakest argument to date.

[@stitchdown]

Haha appreciate that-check out the full interview I just posted, I've got plenty more weak arguments in there!

[@benhall3888]

I have a pair of White’s c-350-cs’s and I can assure you for $575 that the White’s build and durability absolutely embarrasses the build Alden puts out. I really don’t think there’s a way to dispute that

[@InGrindWeCrust2010]

Agreed. Not even a hand welted model and it's still blows Alden out of the water.

[@jamesdelgado2009]

Yeah, but were your boots worn by a lefty actor in the picture shows?

[@EdAb]

Weston, TESTIFY, we are with you! I have a couple of boots on my Grail list, but could only afford one pair this year. After seeing how Alden Indys are so poorly made, I bought a pair Vibergs for the same price (I live in Canada). Maybe next year Alden will wake up and produce a quality boot that matches the price.

[@Sturnburn772]

i would not hold my breath

[@ludwigkhoury6813]

It's OK to pay more for a good product because it's made in the USA. It's NOT OK to get poor quality for more money. If they charge double for Grant Stone quality, it's forgivable. But to charge double Grant Stone Stone for Johnston and Murphy quality, that taking people for stupid. At least when Johnston and Murphy "went to the dark side", they were honest enough to charge half of Grant Stone prices

[@rumbepack]

Do you know you don't have to be a bootlicker to review boots right?

[@smedlybop]

The Alden owners were embezzled for $30MM by their former CFO. He got nearly six years in jail upon conviction in 2021. There is no mention if this factors into their recent pricing.

[@obi-wankenobi698]

Might be the the most delusional take I’ve heard 😂

[@shannonyork4625]

Great American indy boot producer? Their garbage and over priced, the cutting apart of these boots proves inferior quality. You can't justify these prices, consumers are being taken advantage of.

[@bobjames3334]

The materials don’t lie. That’s why I love rose anvil so much.

[@RichardGilbert2727]

Alden's target demographic for the Indy seems to be up-and-coming and affluent urban businessmen. They want a dressy comfy lightweight boot for weekend and occasional office wear. Weston does a good job of educating about quality and durability. More of those qualities would cause its target audience more discomfort, at least initially, than they want.

[@jfruser]

The [alden] simp is strong in this one.

[@JavierGonzalez-in2eb]

Let's be real here, Alden is charging for the name and Heritage, doesn't make them a bad boot but it's up to the buyer if they would like to pay the extra to have Alden on their feet. It's almost similar to owning Jordan 1, I know they are made out of trash but I have loved those shoes as a kid and never had enough money growing up till now and bought some.

[@jtm2957]

“Fairly priced”, really? Considering the lesser quality that is found in their rather expensive boots, they are far from fairly priced. Interesting that Weston then mentioned the 1960s and how Alden “made it through”. The average boot in the 60s was still Goodyear welted and made of decent leather and did not have synthetic materials in them, and sold on average for $15-20.00 new. Yes, there were many American manufacturers at that time, making quality footwear. Now there are fewer yes, but that doesn’t mean that Alden should now try to sell a boot made of lesser quality and for 500.00, when they sold a better boot 50 years ago for much less money to average income ratio. And Alden is not the “last” old time American manufacturer, Red Wing Heritage and Allen Edmonds comes to mind, and thankfully we are seeing more newer American companies making great boots for similar or even less than the Aldens, and better quality!

[@jtm2957]

I can see wanting to hold to a traditional company, but personally I cannot justify giving hundreds of dollars to a brand for the sale of the brand alone, when their quality just isn’t there. It’s like throwing money away to a point. It is sad that so many companies sold out to cheap and junky products made in Asia, but greed played a big part.

[@Will-yp6ny]

Nah man, screw the heritage part and that’s made here in the US. That’s my opinion of course. I can buy a pair of Nicks for $600 made in the US and is a 300% better pair than Alden 405 with wayyyy better materials or Grant Stone for half the price and superb product than Alden’s

[@thomashardy1851]

I don't agree that they can't have a lower price, Trumans are higher quality and cheaper, Nicks are much higher quality and the same price, both of those companies are thriving.

[@elbowache]

So, in the clip, you reach this nuanced conclusion. While the title claims his point is "dangerously reductive." Coolcoolcool. Sounds like the shoes suck for the price.

[@eingames9931]

"They have to reduce cost of materials due the american labor cost being so much" is what I hear. And I'm looking at my Allen Edmonds boots that were about $275 while having less synthetics in them. Admittedly, there is still some synthetics and no claim of orthopedic stuff, but that ortho claims bs is just how well feet fit the last.

[@DiabloAbram]

Argument doesn’t seem solid. Refute is a strong word. Perhaps people should buy what they want, and our capitalist economy will handle the rest.

[@wpkg]

the way this guy dodges a question he should run for office

[@KeenanModica]

1:08 Everyone I know thinks just like this about everything. They never always present a liberal view and can never hold people accountable.

[@danielpudvay1486]

So I don’t understand exactly what the host likes. About Alden. He says he doesn’t care about their occasional finishing miscues and “wonky stitching”. He doesn’t care about them using cheaper materials. So what exactly setsAlden apart a shoe? If it’s not better workmanship or better materials, how are they different the other shoe companies?

[@stitchdown]

Oh man I love plenty! The Alden Trubalance last is as comfortable as any I’ve ever worn-and people with all sorts of feet agree, which is very rare. It also looks damn good imo, perfect for this type of boot (and plain toe). Patterning is huge and Alden is top of class at it, just creating something balanced and visually excellent. Whatever the materials questions, all my Aldens have held up remarkably well over the years. So in short: grade-A comfort, looks (big picture, not “the welt join is wonky”), and longevity are exactly what I value and all my Aldens have delivered on all three, especially Indys.

[@A_Man_Of_Culture_]

@@stitchdownYou know what wouldnt make the comfort or looks worse? Simply using better materials, having a proper leather instead of leatherboard wouldnt affect comfort at all except it will last longer and at this price every stitch and every mark needs to be perfect. Im glad that aldens have been good to you but when I bought a pair of 405’s with a commando sole the sole seperated at the toe within im not kidding you 5 hours and the heel block could be pulled off by a toddler with how horribly it was attached. I contacted alden and the told me I could send them back and pay for a rebuild since the stitching on the rear heel counter was also failing which was gonna cost 300 or i could just live with my 700$ boots falling apart right out of the box. Alden may have been decent at one point but now they arent worth 200 since thursday is better in every way let alone 700

[@jeremyhershberger3012]

Love the honesty of this conversation. It is clear to me that Aldens are worth it from a heritage point of view but not from a material quality point of view. Great conversation.

[@BB-gl7zt]

Title of the vid should be "I Try to Refute...".

[@rocki595]

Refute is a strong word 🫥

[@MattDeckard]

The Alden 405 was designed as orthopedic casual shoe to be worn in the place of the dress shoes of the day. Pre sneaker era. Not a workbook, but a casual shoe for those who need orthopedic shoes. The footbed was to. Help orthotics to hold in place. It’s being modified to become a workbook, but it was designed as a casual orthotic shoe in its day.

[@patrickmiao1698]

The main reason Alden is more expensive is because they distribute their shoes through brick and mortar stores and that doubles the price. If Alden operated like online shoe companies, then Alden's would drop in price significantly. It would also put all their shoe store distributors out of business.

[@stitchdown]

@@patrickmiao1698 100% the case. And selling to them at wholesale (1/2 retail in Alden’s case) prices.

[@mannycalavera2335]

You can get better value US made boots for that price. So the argument that it has to be that expensive because it is made in the US is proven to not be true. I am 100% with Weston on this one. To me the main problem is not even the technicalities of the materials and the construction, but simply the fact that they lack durability in every day use (which is related, but not exactly the same thing).

[@bonecollector1968]

Theres one thing that happened and Alden seen the hoopla and ran with it. And its called Indiana Jones. Theres absolutely no way anyone could tell me otherwise. The prices skyrocketed after the the first few movies came out.

[@馬伕]

Alden did not sponsor Weston Kay's content. But HuckBerry paid up for their similar looking boot.

[@carstenbohemus8501]

As refutations go, that was primarily in the ”my dad can can beat your dad’s butt, so there” category.

[@casuallyworked]

Ben you didn’t answer a single one of this questions you just tip toed around it. I have also owned several Alden and their QC is 50/50. Why pay so much when you know there’s a good chance the QC sucks (loose stitching on the quarters of my shell boot, ripped liner, misaligned speed hooks). It just sounds like you are trying to justify and defend a company as if you have something to gain from it.

[@MephistoRolling]

it's worth what they charge, because people pay for it still. It is not good value or better quality, it is just like any luxury brand. They charge more because they can, nothing to do with value or quality.

[@ml8067]

I wouldn't say refute, I'd say opposing viewpoint. You both had valid points with diffrent perspectives. Wish it would have been a longer conversation. But as awesome as you are, I'm siding with Weston on this.

[@stitchdown]

Publishing the hour-plus full chat tomorrow!

[@Jzatloukal]

In my eyes an Alden is not an upgrade over a Redwing Iron Ranger. If we’re talking fit and finish, made in the U.S. good year welted 100 year old brands For a made in the USA boot the Alden is a let down, the care, quality and materials are just not there to justify the price point. They’re trading off the name and reputation at this point. If you stripped the name away and talked about the boot purely on its merits it sounds like a $200 maybe $300 boot if you really pushed it. The only justification I hear for its price point is it’s an Alden, it’s the Indiana Jones boot. It’s special you can’t compare it to anything else.

[@wompa70]

I don't like the design of the Indy boots enough to spend $250 for them. Disregarding that, they're still way overpriced.

[@hohepa8501]

Dangerously reductive take? Or balanced and well educated take?

[@kipcotter5374]

I think another way one could think of this is akin to someone that collects vinyl. It's very expensive, and it likely is inferior material/production, the sound may arguably not even be as good; but there is a 'chicness' to it; a cult following by many. A "value" that isn't just a conglomeration of materials. I happen to be much more in WK's camp on this, as I really appreciate quality materials and quality builds, but I can understand there are other attributes that turn people's crank. Takes all types!

[@Native_love]

Rose Anvil ONLY cares about how much leather is in a boot. The rest of us want to know how the boot FITS and how it FEELS. I always buy American made when I can afford it. We have to keep these craftsman in business in the USA.

[@kristinarnors]

I just love this rabbit hole I’m in since I discovered Rose Anvil. Being a woman, I’ve never even heard of most of these boots before, I’ll obviously never wear them, yet here I am, hanging on every word.

[@uyi2g4eva]

Good for you! Your purse is secure. Us men be spending all their money trying to find our way out of the rabbit hole!

[@thesheepthemightythecrazy]

Does anyone know of another brand with orthopedic last?

[@reggieburris]

I own 9 pairs of Aldens and over 40 pairs of Allen Edmonds. I was going to buy some Alden boots. However after looking into boots for over a year, I chose to get a pair of Nicks Peanut Bison, Limited Run. From the in depth disassembly of the Alden Indy boots and the thorough review of the Alden Shell Cordovan boots both by Rose Anvil, I can’t in good conscience buy an expensive pair of boots of that quality. I’ll keep my existing Aldens but I won’t buy more.

[@willygfromdahood]

I've always liked and owned dogs, but now my kid has a dog allergy and I'm considering getting a cat. I just can't figure out what cat breed to get and how to feel because no one has cut different breeds of cat in half to convince me of the value proposition. Someone help

[@journeymanedc]

Damn, this is an unhinged analogy 😂

[@bobjames3334]

Rose anvil is 100% right. Alden bros just can’t face the facts. They’re overpriced and overrated.

[@culichi0776]

This just proves the point. The shoes are overpriced for what you get. I bet they could add all the upgrades rose was askimg for and it might just be an extra $30.

[@InGrindWeCrust2010]

Plus some better quality control.

[@anthonynolastname8517]

What good is standing behind an American heritage company and defending their reputation when rose anvil proved that at some point they got greedy, cut corners and now are making a lower quality product but charging the price of a higher quality product? Do they still stand by there name, reputation and heritage when someone proves that none of that meant enough to them to continue to use nothing but the best material? Clearly this guy care more about their legacy and reputation than they do.

[@bryanjones9356]

Stitchdown dude always seems drunk and sounds like an old time radio broadcaster.

[@stitchdown]

Taking both of these as huge compliments, thank you

[@Dallin9000]

$655 for a pair of Alden’s is not a great value given the materials included, if you ask me. If I’m spending that much, I’m expecting top notch quality and materials, REGARDLESS of the history or heritage of the manufacturer. I can see if someone values the name or label attached to the boot over the build quality, but that’s just not me.

[@stuffandthingsyoutube]

Interesting discussion! I can definitely see both sides. I've had my Indy's for over 8 years, and if I had never seen Rose Anvil's cut in half video, I wouldn't have any reason to complain. My pair still look amazing and feel great. Do I wish they were better built? Sure, but I haven't had any issue with them, and I also payed quite a bit less for mine when I purchased them.

[@ynysvon]

I am from the UK and I could never pay the full retail price for these boots which over here cost over $800 but have seen a very good used pair on eBay for about the same as $350 dollars which I might buy. I watched the Stridewise reaction to this issue and he put it from the perspective of if you want a pair of boots mainly for casual wear and not for fighting forest fires, then for style and comfort you can't go wrong with a pair of the iconic Alden Indys. Plus they are very rare in the UK which will add a bit more kudos to them over here. Though for the full retail price, they should make better boots.

[@brandall101]

Big, big elephant in the room here - Aldens are far more expensive, even accounting for inflation, than they were when I bought my first pair 17 years ago. Seriously, Indys were $360. Why? Well, heritage boots became more popular. But the bigger reason? Likely the $30M embezzeled by their CFO from 2011-2019.

[@Nathan-zw7nq]

I have a pair of White’s cruisers that were $50 less than the Alden Indy’s and they are without a doubt far superior to the Alden’s in materials and quality.

[@seitenryu6844]

Heritage doesn't matter, only the end product is a concern. If there's an equal or better quality product made in usa, for similar or lower pricing, why care about how long they've been doing it? I would give them a huge pass if they committed to producing the best quality available. That usually deserves a premium price, but they don't. There are makers that do that and I'll give them my money instead.

[@victorvannatter312]

I think the heritage and all that is a poor argument. I couldn’t care less about heritage. I want a good boot for a good price. I like quality and value. Not heritage

[@stitchdown]

What you want is totally fair and understandable! But I can just about assure you that if craft and history and heritage become completely unappreciated, the ONLY thing that will be left will be decent boots at decent prices.

[@victorvannatter312]

You may be right. I probably have come from a different place than you. I mean you have a business about boots. And I’m just some guy. If 405s were like $400 Canadian, I’d have a pair. But I love my Thursdays. They’re better leather and better build quality than these and they’re almost 1/4 of the price. I have 2 pairs. I don’t mind they’re made in Mexico. But if you think they’re worth the price, my hats off to you and I hope you enjoy them. Even if Weston hadn’t made that video, I still wouldn’t buy the Alden’s due to price.

[@stitchdown]

@@victorvannatter312 Thursdays are great boots! Especially for the price, they're basically unmatched outside of Meermin (whose new Negon-last service boots are legit good and very worth a look). Trust me, I don't expect or even want everyone to share my perspective. But at least taking a second to UNDERSTAND it, and consider it a bit, as I consider anyone else's in this space (obviously including Weston's!) has real value, I feel. And don't worry I'll be posting a full, counterpoint video before too long here, just so I can get destroyed in the comments again haha. I hope you'll consider that worth a look and a think, too.

[@victorvannatter312]

For sure. I think I am rare on the Internet, in that I don’t hate anyone for slightly different opinion than myself. I’m also 40 so that could have something to do with it. It’s funny because 405, or 403s, would be perfect for me. As I have stupidly wide feet. I just don’t have the disposable income for them. Which is I think with a lot of people have the issue with. People will complain about some thing and say that’s why they won’t buy it. But really it’s because they can’t afford it and they are bitter. And I get that. I would love a pair of these. I will watch your next video for sure.

[@james460xvryee]

Base Alden Indy boot: $680. Russell Moccasin Weathered Oak PH: $675. Obviously they're very different style of boots but in terms of MITUSA, materials, manufacturing, finishing and durability Russell wins. The issue is Alden's manufacturing process and their reliance on their name.

[@stitchdown]

I love Russell Moccasin more than anyone I know, and wear them over half the days in a year. One of the most unique and comfortable boots you can get anywhere (and there's absolutely nothing like it). Worth whatever they cost, pretty much whatever they cost. But to be citing their finishing prowess as a hallmark definitely cuts into the argument-I love/accept Russells for their notable LACK of aesthetic perfection/finishing, and I think it could set the wrong expectations for future customers that a pair of Russells should be "perfect" in terms of the way people want other dressier types of boots to be.

[@Crackers2549]

I have had many, many boots but I'll take my Alden Indy's anyday over any boot I've owned because of the comfort, that's the bottom line for me.... So yes, they are a bit expensive but I don't care how much because of that comfort.....! I have 3 pair and only wish I had discovered them earlier... I love wearing them...

[@portlandreviewer2143]

I’m with the Rose Anvil guy, that if I’m paying a high price, I expect high quality. I don’t care about heritage, since I don’t care about brand names.

[@lh8372]

Avoid the Alden Indys and buy Parkhurst Niagara instead! Very similar look but much better quality!! If you don’t like the Dainite style sole. Get them re-soled and it will still be cheaper than Alden

[@clintpreslar452]

At this point the cost has to be down to the name and brand recognition. I mean the boots Indiana Jones wears is a great way to get people to buy without looking so deeply into the materials, but material wise there is no reason these boots should cost so much. Yeah American labor is more expensive and there were some supply chain issues, but that’s just an easy way out a lot of companies have been using since the pandemic.

[@WineTerroir]

I appreciate this conversation on both sides

[@WizzdummHeadley]

This "conversation" is exactly what's wrong with contemporary society, many people aren't concerned with truth or even facts no they're A LOT more concerned with solipsist nonsense & magical thinking/rhetoric!!!??? I like what RA does which is just break things/boots/shoes down literally to reality which exposes them for what they actually are.

[@x0c0pa]

This argument is name vs quality. For me, the more boots I buy, the more attention I pay to quality.

[@cameron3525]

The amount of people who buy an overpriced shoe simply to preserve the legacy of the company I would imagine is quite small.

[@HeritageCast]

Solid take by Weston. These scams are all over the boot industry....

[@pepleatherlab3872]

I find it's a combination of consumer ignorance, corporate opportunism and labor markets. There are typically three markets when it comes to consumer goods. #1 Cheap and disposable where the consumer embraces ignorance and saturates landfills with plastic imported junk. #2 Educated consumers who know the differences but can't afford the extra cost of a better product. (Alden) #3 Niche markets where educated consumers are paying for superior quality handcrafted Artisanal products which can become heirlooms lasting a century or more. I still use a handmade wallet made from Shell Cordovan I crafted back in 1991. It hasn't even popped a stitch and that was more than thirty years ago. *shrugs* If you ask me, I recommend spending the extra cash for a vegetable tanned handcrafted product. You'll save money over time.

[@jaynern]

😂, that’s not how i think about it….

[@HokieVols]

Big dodge as to whether component to component the Alden's are worth the price.. you know the answer, of course, is no, but for some reason you won't simply state that very plain fact

[@number1pappy]

He keeps saying heritage and how they used to be! With this kind of thinking, would you purchase a Rolls Royce at its premium price if they started building a car that was inferior to a basic Chevy? 🤔 just because they once built a premium high-end car? I don't think so Skippy! Truth be told their are alot of people who only want the label and could care less and couldn't even notice the difference in a high-quality shoe or boot over a cheap one. Smh....

[@generath5439]

For $600 - $1000, my money is going to a brand that's provides better built product.

[@chinatownboy7482]

This from the same guy who endorses Rock Rooster.

[@UTubeandChill]

Soooooo good. Alden apologists are just adorable. "Dangerously reductive?"😂 Well, Alden fanatics are involved after all. Gotta keep it simple. "But..... But but..... But Alden got history...... What about the HISTORY!" "You can't put a price on "Merican Made" histry." "It's at least worth 800 bucks per pair of poorly made boots of its histry alone!" smh

[@maddesi2709]

Johnston and Murphy still makes excellent products

[@Bayou987]

Westin just makes sense. Great conversation. Kudos

[@phraktl]

Paying for a name is peak poverty mindset.

[@Will67267]

I do have an Indy boot 403 for the past 8 years. I wear it at least 3-4x a week during fall, winter and spring. I had them resole once and just love them for their comfort, style and aesthetic. I think it's a good buy.

[@InGrindWeCrust2010]

Sure. They're extremely comfortable and versatile. But relative to other options at the price point, is the question.

[@matts6551]

Alden Indy boots are definitely worth the price… three price increases ago, there is no defense for this modern day rip off crap quality Alden is offering currently. This is exactly why I own two pairs of Grant Stones and two Red Wings

[@jgb0017]

Part of me wonders how Rose Anvil will look back on his anti-Indy crusade twenty years from now. Dozens of people have explained to him why a company would choose celastic over leather (the pricing difference, even at scale, is not substantial). Yet, he continues to affirm the consequent and engage in confirmation bias. It’s just a really silly argument.

[@les-chouans]

it is simple. In Aldens you DO NOT GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. It is a very simple thing to understand. Alden is not a honorary comany but a bunch of cheap fraudsters. Part of me wonders why some people try to defend a company that is cheating customers out of their money???

[@jgb0017]

@@les-chouans I think you mean “honorable,” or at least part of me does.

[@les-chouans]

@@jgb0017 yes I mean honorable. And you still don't get the point of RA?

[@jgb0017]

@@les-chouans I understand what he is saying. I have since he started in on it.

[@Seedavis397]

I saw some video of rose anvil reviewing 1000$ Alden boots and they were literally falling apart in 6 months. That’s shit

[@jesse5235]

“Dangerously Reductive Indy Take” Dangerously? Reductive? Come on. 😂😂😂

[@stevebarrus9733]

Alden, Allen Edmonds have gone to a pile of crap

[@MichaelE.Douroux]

Baloney. Alden is trading heavily off the Indiana Jones franchise while cutting corners the average consumer can't see. The more the story of the cheap internals get out there, Alden's business model is going to sink. If they wanted to they could turn this around but they don't have an unlimited time frame to do so. BTW, the last Indiana Jones installment was a box office bomb which does not portend well for Alden.

[@tflick41]

Rose Anvil is the Spock and Stitchdown is the Kirk. Both are correct!

[@stitchdown]

We need to do a mind meld asap

[@tflick41]

@@stitchdown You wouldn’t like what you see. 😂 I love the Indy but I’m a tightwad so I wear a J.Crew Kenton and my holy grail is the J.Crew 405 kudu leather made by Alden. 🤷

[@stitchdown]

​@@tflick41 Haha oh stop it Kentons are legit good boots!

[@Sturnburn772]

Only thing dangerous here was bro's stuttering. Also you don't know what refute means. You didn't disprove anything. Weston asked a reasonable question...is this boot structurally worth $700? And you folded. They are absolutely not and you know this. Red wing is less than half the price, and has just as much if not more history than Alden and they "survived"....but they dont charge $700 for a cheap overpriced boot.

[@josephc4119]

Here's the problem with Weston's conclusion: he doesn't consider the fashion/luxury factor when critiquing the cost of Aldens. The cost of all footwear includes fashion/luxury/status as a factor. For dedicated work boots like Nicks and White's, this factor is tiny, almost non-existent. For dressy casual like Aldens, it's a bigger factor. For brands like Prada, Louboutin, and Gucci, fashion and reputation/status are not just huge factors, they're the defining factor. Saying that Aldens are overpriced based only on the sum total of the cost of their materials is short sighted. If the market is willing to pay a premium for the history, heritage, and/or status that accompanies a product, is that really price gouging as he suggests? Also, he never considers that a big reason for Alden's high prices is the fact that they don't sell directly to consumers. The cost of maintaining their own stores and sales reps to keep their retailers stocked is not cheap. And they've made it clear they are not going to move away from this business model.

Refute?

[@jamesdelgado2009]

This dude's tortured excuses for Alden were painful to watch. Wait, I should expect lower-quality products from a company because they are having labor issues? I guess QC takes the day off the day a few people don't come in. "Never mind the boots tomorrow guys, we are down too many people to care. Let's lower our standards to B+ and hope we get more people soon before we lower to C level of quality." There is nothing simplified about Rose Anvil's take on current Alden Indy boots, their boots use lower-quality materials but still charge a premium price. What's reductive about that? For the price of the Indy Boot, I can get a nice Nick's or White's boot made in the USA of superior materials. Sorry, if a company can't cut it alone, I sure ain't "paying for" their preservation by buying their products of lower quality but high cost, LOL

[@bobjohnson6321]

im goin with Allen Edmonds for half the price.

[@garymoe9038]

Here are my technical reasons why the Alden Indy is a better Boot than others. First I'm in my 70s and have worn a lot of business shoes, casual shoes and boots throughout my life. Had my first pair of work boots when I was 8 yrs old... and many pairs since. A boot is a system. Each part has a function in context with the rest of the parts in order to achieve the goals of the boot. The Indy boot is an orthopedic boot built on a patented orthopedic last, designed to keep your foot in a healthy anatomical position. It has a wide toe box giving space for bunions or other deformities, and it narrows down at the instep and heel to produce a tall, long and firm heel cup. Other parts of the orthopedic system include the cork midsole, the well designed metal shank, and the Thomas heel. Cork, which seems to be missing from many boots, is buoyant, elastic, breathable and water resistant. It is also very durable. A cork footbed molds around your foot to give orthopedic support and comfort. It's one of the reasons Indy boots "break in" in a matter of days or a couple of weeks and stay comfortable over the life of the boot. The Indy boot metal shank is made of tempered steel, properly contoured and triple ribbed for strength. Too many boot makers use a thick piece of leather or wood for the shank. Simply cannot compete with a properly designed metal shank for arch support and long lasting comfort. The Thomas heel (the curved front of the heel) adds rear and midfoot medial support. Good for any foot, but especially for people with excessively pronated feet. This is why people love their Indy boots. Quick to break in, very supportive regardless of foot issues, and the orthopedic properties force you to walk correctly, making it possible to work all day in them very comfortably. And they are NOT overly heavy. Heavy boots are not good for your ankles, legs and lower back. That's why it's important for any boot maker to achieve the goals of the boot, at the LEAST possible weight. I have arthritis now, and no longer wear any shoes other than my two pair of Indy boots. They reduce significantly the pain in my feet, legs and back. Since I live in Portland, no one cares when I wear them to the Symphony. Alden Indy Boots are better engineered than any other boot. Period.

[@oyster_3694]

You shouldn't compare Alden to all of the PNW boot brands! Those boots are designed for extreme duty! Aldens are not! They were not designed to be hiking/ forestry boots! So it seems silly to me to make the comparison!

[@carlosbeverley8532]

You’ve missed the point entirely. While Weston is a PNW man he is strongly advocating that they just be made of better materials for the price, not necessarily being PNW work boots. Watch his latest 6 month review of his shell cordovans & it’s blatantly apparent they are sub par for the price & he is quite objective in his assessment. There are other American made brands out there that can make boots with good materials, craftsmanship & QC for a lower price. It’s just Alden cashing in on the ‘Indy’ name. Alden Indy’s we’re once my grail boot but unless they improve in all aspects of their makeup I’ll be steering clear if them sadly.

[@EdAb]

The comparison to PNW boots was a simple one. PNW boots are made with better materials, more expensive labour and yet they generally cost less than Alden boots. PNW boots are therefore, better value. We're not talking about durability (although the PNW boots win here too), subjective style, subjective comfort, or history.

[@booleann___]

Huffing a lot of copium with this one.

[@ThuggaManeLaFlare]

TLDR they aint worth it!

[@drregmonster4371]

Rose Anvil isn't the typical Alden customer. He lives in Salt Lake City and probably chops wood for a living. He's not in an urban environment working in an office. Also, he has a business relationship with Nick's Boots. Alden is a large company employing American workers, so the labor costs are far greater.

[@tommysmith7031]

Rose had done collabs with Nick's and other brands, so I don't think it is accurate to say he is a Nicks guy. Also, he cut apart boots and shoes so it is there for all for anyone to see. Redwing are made in the USA, the materials used are pretty similar. The Alden is more expensive.

[@eingames9931]

Nicks are made in America and hand lasted. Alden's are just on the other coast, machine lasted, and chose thier materials that would not stand up to the same treatment as the others would. And yes the Nicks would out last the Alden in a office setting. Also, Rose Anvil is the name of his leather working shop (makes wallets, keychains, kilties, etc) which is hardly choping wood. His Alden boots are falling apart from hikes and normal daily use over 6 months. Oh yeah, he has a KZbin channel that breaks in/wears and cuts apart shoes and boots, so he did not exclusively use those Alden boots during those 6 months. TBH I am glad I was warned from buying Alden.

[@Enrico-]

He definitely has a jell-o belt POV and saying that his boots are falling a part would be pretty much lying. Also the cost of labor in Mass isn't the same that the one in Spokane by any stretch. That said, the heavy pigmented uppers is something I would never buy. The leather board midsole is just absurd, the soft toe as well. The insole should be at least 3mm and be top grain leather, I wouldn't except 5mm though. But the biggest thing, and this is very much a European POV, all these boots they ship are defective. If someone delivered to me something with that welt I would ship them back without hesitation. Loake at 250£ would never ship anything like that. It's like selling stained sweaters.

[@ericpensyl5578]

I’d never buy an Alden boot. The price is ridiculously high compared to other boots that use higher quality materials and sell for $200 less.. it’s a travesty to pay more than $200 for quality boots from any brand.. if you pay more than that your just an idiot. I’m not paying for someone else’s fortune and fame.. it’s time these companies be held accountable for the shitty products they produce and try to sell as prime quality products when a major majority of these companies are selling subpar products for way more than they are worth….