I SOLD MY HDB FLAT ... Bearish On Singapore Properties But Why?

[@joshconsultancy]

OHMYHOME (Josh Tan Special Referral link to enquire) - calendly.com/ohmyhome/ohmyhome-joshtan

[@pongpong5108]

Would you recommend ohmy home to sell condo as well ?

[@bloggeraldwin]

but u rented out boss

[@joshconsultancy]

@@pongpong5108 the process should be the same. Give them a call and interview them. Choose only when it has satisfied you k =)

[@fanlie1576]

Thanks for sharing. I watched your video and your explanation on "why sell". But I still do not understand why you sell it now. Probably there is some missing info that you did not fully share. Something like your future plan from the cash/money that you get from that selling? Thank you.

[@joshconsultancy]

@@fanlie1576it will be invested into the financial markets. Something I planned in the video HOW Id get to $3m, cya there too 👌🏻

[@viralloger267]

Need to factor maintainence cost for condo. Hdb is safest pot gold for average joe singaporean

[@dexterlee6604]

Possible to do a update vid?

[@joshconsultancy]

I have it here THIS HOW MY OLD HOUSE LOOKED - Explaining why I sold my HDB flat in 2023 instead of collecting rent kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWbPhYqGeLd2edksi=c6-Bx9H52elyWkv1

[@woontew9157]

One year after this video is made. Do you still feel that it is the right decision? Property market has not gone down.

[@BeOutstanding]

Most of the advices only applicable for sale of private property. More people will move to buy hdb due to more uncertainty, higher absd, higher interests rates for private property.

[@joshconsultancy]

Hi avoid spamming 🙏

[@lishr4536]

what did you buy then or where are you staying now then after selling?

[@joshconsultancy]

As shared, I’m not selling current home. The hdb Flat had been rented

[@arriflex]

Singapore is land-locked with no space to expand horizontally (reclaim land can only expand so much), and at the rate our govt is bringing in foreigners, in the long term, property prices will still rise.

[@joshconsultancy]

We need to rethink that train of thought. Expanding based on reducing total sq area can already create more supply than needed. Without factoring expanding vertically. Foreigner converting to PR in the last few years back has also slowed considerably due to political pressure

[@sureko9808]

You need to deduct Buyer stamp duty, agent fees and lawyer fees to get the net gain.😇

[@joshconsultancy]

Of coz, that makes the IRR worse

[@bloggeraldwin]

he never say money saved on rental he rent out at 24000 a year over 360,000 which is around 7.5% .........

[@sureko9808]

@@bloggeraldwin Rental probably equal ABSD paid.

[@liamporter1137]

Thanks for sharing and surfacing the truth instead of those who are trying to sell you property. 👏👍

[@soonyinwong6764]

Thanks

[@joshconsultancy]

Thank you for supporting our channel 🙏

[@money3ss]

TVM calculator return 6% pa. for 10 yrs if include imputed net rental $1500 pm. Selling my investment pty too, 6-8% if sold at slightly below valuation but the rental is only 1-2% it’s not passive income

[@joshconsultancy]

We share the same thinking

[@yeodallas4046]

Thanks for the great insights as usual! Just a simple calculation: rather than selling for 500-600k. A 5rm HDB rental can fetch $3.2k x 12 mths x 30years=1.15mil in rental income. sure minus taxes and all that still higher than what you can sell now? its about diversification.

[@joshconsultancy]

No probs Dallas. $3.2k x 12 mths x 30years=1.15mil - I agree and it was in my original plans. But Ive decided its time to make moves, will elaborate again in a future episode =)

[@daveang4159]

I like your style, always a contrarian. Like buying China stock every month last year. Hope you are right about your property. Respect!

[@joshconsultancy]

Thank you Dave. yes Ive always followed that and thinking about the future few years ahead

[@hgft274]

Listen to property agents who will tell you property in sg sure make money. Trend always up in the long run....LOL

[@hhspore]

good sensible decision. We are of the same mind and I took the same action as you 🙂

[@joshconsultancy]

high five =)

[@bigno1900]

i sold my hdb for 550k , bought for 240k. Stay 10 years

[@djtan3313]

@@stevenyip2631 Hhhuuuat ah!!!

[@viralloger267]

Bto?

[@bigno1900]

@@viralloger267 BTO

[@nnnnn8173]

HDB flat owners with private properties should never have been allowed to rent out the HDB while living in the private properties.

[@joshconsultancy]

MOP rules fulfilled and ABSD was paid. Rules were followed. Capital was painstakingly saved up. Not constructive to be salty.

[@ecp4466]

Thanks for sharing this Josh. But from a financial perspective, assuming you get average $24k/year in rental off a $373k purchase price, that works out to 6.4% gain, pretty decent. Also, assuming u did that for the next 50 years, even if you build in all the risks/costs, you get a handsome amount and not to mention $2k/mth income for your retirement. I think it is pretty ok leh. Is my thought process flawed?

[@joshconsultancy]

Pretty ok yes. And the coming rent would have been 2.7-3k. Not flawed. I'm making moves. Will address more in a future episode, stay tuned =)

[@bloggeraldwin]

Ya lor higher than cpf OA

[@ployny]

Don't forget tax on rental income, maintenance, property tax, agent fees and ensuring you even have a tenant in the first place. Minus all these, the return is pretty low. People tend to look at absolute numbers when it comes to property and get excited over the 6 or 7 digits sales but forget about the cost and fees along the way. Just DCA your way into an index and spend your time and energy else where.

[@bloggeraldwin]

@@ployny true too

[@ecp4466]

@@ployny I agree with those points but to me they are are more valid for private property, when people look to rent then sell for capital agains. Here I am only talking about rental yields for HDB and the numbers seems to suggest it is financially attractive even when u put in, like I said earlier, the risks/costs. I am even assuming Josh rent till the lease runs out.

[@michellezhu5230]

Thank you

[@louth1770]

In Australia foreign buyers have to return to Oz for minimum period of stay in order to avoid incurrence of extra taxes.

[@seamuslam]

did you include all the fees, commission, mortgage interest, rental in the 64k profit? if so, could you provide a breakdown pls?

[@joshconsultancy]

Just the price. Shoudl deduct Buyer stamp duty, agent fees, interest cost and lawyer fees. The IRR is even worse then

[@Phonedumb]

My question would be what will be the freed up funds be used for? It would logically be better in returns in comparison so itll be interesting to know. Also, unless the HDB was funded more from cash, otherwise, most of the sale proceeds would be back to CPF OA, which is not that flexible in terms of its investment use.

[@joshconsultancy]

Cash portions will be into financial markets in due time

[@djtan3313]

Sunset in west. Sunrise in east. Sg is east or west…?…

[@lohdanwee474]

I am not selling my HDB. 1. No ABSD. If l sell and buy another property later, l will incur huge ABSD. 2. Rental yield of more than 10% per year. Cannot find any better alternative investment that gives such yield. 3. New MRT station construction and ready by 2027 within 3 minutes walk. I will keep my HDB as a swing and perpetuate rental income.

[@joshconsultancy]

The sharing is on my decision. Not an advice to do the same steps

[@louth1770]

One can count on our govt to stop flood of foreigners from entering our property market. Private properties of resale units will not be allowed be bought by foreigners. Those from PRC have history of inflatng the local markets wherever they go. Our govt should impose tax measures to prevent our precious housing units from being speculated.

[@jamesl2590]

Hard though. It's a very tricky situation for the government, especially when the global economic prospect does not match the optimism in the current property market. There is no science/formula to precisely tell how the market will react. There is a risk of causing price collapse if you "over-tighten" (if one could even know if its over-tightening"). Another is a trade-off situation where a lower price may benefit new entrants, but hurt those in the market or just switched. Political risks are attached as well. Next GE is coming up and you may not want to rock the boat. Which is why one should have regulated the flood gates in the first place. lol.

[@joshconsultancy]

Foreigner speculation imo has been reigned in well. i think only 4% if foreigner

[@tanpingyi4771]

later ur property price down then u blame government again 😂😂

[@louth1770]

@@tanpingyi4771 look at the impact PRC n foreign speculators impact in Canada, Oz, NZ and all places they had been to.

[@patricktan5511]

thanks. but u need to factor in 6.9mil within next decade.

[@boliaohill6595]

holding on old fully paid HDB and keep renting it out for cashflow seems a better option, unless you need to avoid ASBD for another property investment in the horizon.

[@joshconsultancy]

Avoiding ABSD is definitely part of the move. But hey I can get that 6% from a REIT =)

[@lukeeong]

If your reits yield holds firm, the argument on HDB price falling, don’t hold true right?

[@lukeeong]

And remember, this HDB is risk free

[@learninvestearnsave]

@@lukeeong hdb risk free? You mean prices don’t go down?

[@lukeong3932]

@@learninvestearnsave I meant as a rental income. But again it’s hard to predict.

[@oradba168]

Why sell your own HDB flat ? Don’t you know when you are grown old with health problem, you will not get little or no subsides from government in Hospitals ?

[@joshconsultancy]

Means testing you mean? Aware and not a key consideration. will address more in a future episode, stay tuned =)

[@mynameisusedz]

Wa thanks for openly sharing...but you need to consider the effect of HDB loan (nobody wanna take bank loan now) for your new buyer (for a 39yo flat) vs that of resale condo before comparing returns using the SRX chart.

[@joshconsultancy]

Oh yes. At HDB loan 2.6% the IRR would be even lower

[@KRJW]

The side question is... why is your socket as high as your light switch?

[@joshconsultancy]

Child safety... (i think haha)

[@victorhow9613]

Josh, what is your view on the China buyers coming in to buy pte ppties ? won't they jack up the ppty mkt ?

[@joshconsultancy]

They might jack up bangkok. At most our luxury segment only, i guess not the $5m and less mass market

[@victorhow9613]

@@joshconsultancy if the luxury ppties move, the lower priced ppties will also move in tandem tho not by the same percentage ?

[@andrewufo]

When was the last blockbuster news of a china buyer buying up properties? I think early 2022 when rates were 0.5%. Chinese buyers aint stupid either. Easy money days are over. The chinese rather rent than buy because its much cheaper to rent high end properties that locals cant afford to rent. Do the math for a gcb and you will know rentals are like 1.5% because not many can afford. High end luxury condos all dropping in price. Rents cant cover interest component and opportunity loss from downpayment. Especially for higher quantums. Propedge reports 7% yoy price drop. Its starting.

[@allent4021]

Pay ABSD when buying back after selling!!!

[@joshconsultancy]

Incorrect

[@allent4021]

@@joshconsultancy your analysis did not factor in property market being different now

[@gohck9440]

Thanks for your insights. Based on what I hear from others - It is difficult to own two properties and you are fortunate to have owned two properties. Going forward if you were to get a second property, you will need to pay much higher ABSD. That's the reasoning by many others including property agents on why you should keep the two properties. Furthermore, the depreciation of HDB flats is only steep between MOP (5 year) to 20 years. After a certain old age, HDB flats basically still hold their value with government's upgrading and improvement programmes. Just curious whether you have considered these before selling your HDB flat and if so, why?

[@joshconsultancy]

No probs, happy its useful. If both properties are individually held, its the easiest way to sidestep ABSD. I love HDB flat for the upgrading. Being in an old condo and an old HDB flat, i appreciate first hand the efforts of town council and also the "free" repainting/lift repair etc... You miss that in a private property. Everything is from own pocket. Ive considered the points you raised before and in a sequel in future, Id share deeper on my thoughts on why I see benefits in making moves now. Smash the subs and stay tuned!

[@chaangru]

Hi josh tks for sharing. I’m guessing you may be putting your sales proceeds into FD/tbills and waiting for property prices to correct before buying again?

[@joshconsultancy]

No probs =) Not FD. I will be entering financial markets

[@wendyshoowaiching4161]

Yes! Sell and buy back

[@dailyhacks4634]

I guess your point it ,if It cannot grow at the pace it has then why keep it . But it got me thinking if other asset classes will perform better ? Who knows lol

[@joshconsultancy]

I read the current property cycle is high. Not cannot grow BUT negative growth for the coming years ahead.

[@ChristianChua]

Wow seriously Josh, good luck. I wouldn't sell my home. When do you sell your house? Only when you need to. Timing the market like that is a risk my friend.

[@joshconsultancy]

Quite simple, its not my home. Ive been renting it out. Some details in this sharing kzbin.info/www/bejne/imHJkJWgobF1Y8U Agree - not worth to sell home unless it is for lifestyle needs

[@LordBagdanoff]

So strange to clear your loan when interest were so low back then. Could have done other investments with the money. Actually the gains isn’t much at all. Mind as well rent it.

[@joshconsultancy]

hmm i cleared loan back then? I did the opposite actually. Some sharing WHY DID I BORROW $150,000? Explaining Good Debt VS Bad Debt kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIu6pXuIgsiCZrM

[@superconnie5003]

The $2000/month rental how much goes to gov tax?.

[@joshconsultancy]

It is considered part of income and will be in income tax depending on bracket

[@thsim88]

FD interest rate return is TAX FREE

[@andrewufo]

I love this video Josh. Great work. Ive sold my condo in q4 2022. Thanks to covid 0% interest, prices made a huge upward move in just 2 years. Otherwise it was such a dull asset class from 2011 to 2019. Congrats on cashing out and i think we both agree the easy money times are over. So glad you made this video unlike some other prop agents who are clearly biased. PropEdge reported 7% yoy price declines for higher end condos. The high interest rates are beginning to bite, and everyone is using cash to FD and Tbill, instead of using that cash to leverage more. Buyers affordability drops. Especially higher end market 5mil condos and above. See how much interest being paid a month. I have agents offering me below valuation now.

[@joshconsultancy]

Thanks for the high praise. In HDB its still COV. But it seems less aggressive now already

[@garlicbread68]

64k over 10 years ? Before fees, that’s ……

[@linetriangleisasussybaka]

Do you have another place to stay? As rental prices bite at the moment, 4k to 4.5k for hdb in the west.

[@joshconsultancy]

I would also discourage to sell and then rent. This HDB flat which I sold has been rented out and no longer my home. I previous sharing that has some insights - How I Own A Condo With JUST $1,092 Per Month - kzbin.info/www/bejne/imHJkJWgobF1Y8U

[@RenoKong]

I understood that you sold because easy money times are over but you are buying a replacement for stay? Wouldn't that make you "still" in the market?

[@joshconsultancy]

Its not my home. Some previous sharing here How I Own A Condo With JUST $1,092 Per Month! 😉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/imHJkJWgobF1Y8U

[@kahfong3204]

endowment plan /fixed deposit has counter party risk.

[@victorhow9613]

u can place in a few banks with the 75K insured ..

[@joshconsultancy]

yes PPF guarantee is more than $75k. SHould be $500k guarantee

[@syenen]

As such u won't be able to own a HDB until u dispose ur existing pte property. I actually disposed my pte property recently and bought a HDB to cash out from the up market. Then 5 yrs later I will enter the pte property again after fulfilling my MOP. Current HDB I am just occupier and wife is owner. Isn't it best to receive passive income from rental of a HDB and stay in a pte or vice versa?

[@syenen]

And of course with the extra money I got from the sale of my private, I put them in bonds, unit trust and also high interest FDs.

[@joshconsultancy]

We share similarities in thinking. Will elaborate more in a future episode stay tuned =)

[@henrylau116]

Josh, I have questions... Is your HDB flat full paid? How much CPF monies will use to fund this HDB flat? If your answers are fully paid, and zero CPF monies was used, then I can understand your strategy to sell. However, if your HDB is not fully paid, and you have CPF monies to fund this HDB, then, your "residues" from the sales may not be much. I may not think this is a good strategy. Rental may still fetch a higher return.

[@joshconsultancy]

Oh i can answer that - the OA can be invested via CPFIS or used to pay down my condos current mortgage

[@adammac6386]

Best World International listed on the SGX. Do you know this company?

[@joshconsultancy]

Seen it. Skeptical of it. Not a shareholder

[@adammac6386]

@@joshconsultancy Yes, numbers are very good. It's suspiciously cheap. Why are you skeptical?

[@joshconsultancy]

@@adammac6386generally anything w share price that went parabolic concerns me more than it interest me

[@benk7177]

Congrats! But do you think you are late (please don't say it's never late) for the market as it seems to have taken off strongly. I feel I missed out in the current bull run.

[@joshconsultancy]

Investing for the long term starts by accumulating gradually and holding back on FOMO that prices will only go higher

[@benk7177]

@@joshconsultancy Are you accumulating at current level and what will you pick currently?

[@nolan141]

So now you have free up one name from your hdb sale, are you looking to buy another private property?

[@joshconsultancy]

Yes. After some time. The property cycle turns slowly. Will elaborate more in a future episode stay tuned =)

[@nicholaskoh9182]

Personally, I reckon that property prices will still be resilient unless there is an increasing rate of retrenchment.

[@joshconsultancy]

Maybe... But 2013-2016 did not have increment in retrenchment to register a down few years

[@andrewufo]

@@joshconsultancy perfect. Was yearning for someone with brains to know that property can come down. 2013 onwards was a clear example. If it wasnt for covid 0% interest booster, property market wouldnt be what it is now. Not sustainable anymore. Good move Josh

[@darrenkwok84]

@Josh on the point of Rentals from HDB flats or Singaporean developments would there be content on Jurong Regional Line and or industrial or educational opportunities thus rental opportunity riding on these new developments around Tengah, HongKah regions

[@joshconsultancy]

Wow that part i may not have an expert opinion to share...

[@darrenkwok84]

@@joshconsultancy No worries hehe but interesting to understand the future of Singapore from a infrastructure development or finance angle .. thank you !

[@meklavier4664]

I am amuse. At @9:18 your graph only shows one QTR of flattering and you reach the conclusion that prop market is turning bearish. In the same graph you can observed 10 11 12 data they also flattened but rise up after the flattening. Can it be they are not flattening but merely consolidating?

[@joshconsultancy]

Of coz i can see the graphs exponential climb. Didnt conclude that the prop market is turning bearish from charts. I am bearish ahead of conclusive evidence from price trend and it is a deep contrarian pov. Hope it clarifies

[@andrewufo]

See propedge article, high end condos fell 7% yoy. The 2nd half was so bad that it erased first half of 2022 and fell further. High rates hurt the high quantum.

[@swimlah]

Hi Josh, I like u have 2 properties. 1 HDB & 1 pte both paid. Why didn’t u sell pte instead ? I’m also aware of the down side and has been sitting on the fence until rental went up forcing me to hold. But I’m staying in the HDB though ….

[@joshconsultancy]

Quite simple HDB requires two names to hold. I will attract ABSD again if i do reenter markets in future. Will elaborate more in a future episode stay tuned =)

[@andygregory2145]

@@joshconsultancy how about putting one name as essential occupier for hdb?

[@joshconsultancy]

@@andygregory2145 you cannot change structure for existing ownership. If buying today then yes you can structure it like tt

[@joee2743]

Am pretty confident you will exceed 3 million target you've set for yourself. Just the duration it takes to get there. I've set my personal targets too. Something to work towards and see if one is able to meet it. Is your 3 mil goal for yourself only or maybe 3 mil for you and a certain amount for wife/ family?

[@joshconsultancy]

Thank you. Just making moves as per what I see in the world in the next few years

[@weiyongl]

brother dont let the cat out of the bag. let me dump my property first

[@joshconsultancy]

haha oops

[@weiyongl]

@@joshconsultancy u know u need to dump when your investment property went from 400 sgd +cash flow per month to -100.

[@perpetualquotes]

Bro , you are supporter of ohmyhome becos they charges a flat rate fee?

[@joshconsultancy]

They got the job done for me and I'm a satisfied customer. This video is sponsored also as stated. Yes also because of the 1% fee. Hope it clarifies

[@umeshutan6959]

Josh... Awesome

[@oradba168]

Government grants or subsides in Hospitals or outpatient treatments, one of criteria is based on HDB flats, whether are 3 or 4 rooms.

[@joshconsultancy]

Aware but not a key consideration. will address more in a future episode, stay tuned =)

[@benk7177]

@@joshconsultancy thought hospital subsidies are based on means testing of per capita household income only?

[@cedrust4111]

U sold HDB.. Staying rental next?

[@joshconsultancy]

Oh I wouldnt suggest to sell and then rent Ive shared here before kzbin.info/www/bejne/imHJkJWgobF1Y8U

[@tracywang513]

Not a wise decision in the turbulent days

[@joshconsultancy]

As in turbulence in financial markets? Thats where opportunities may appear...

[@tracywang513]

Housing price may crash if you will have to buy a new house .

[@bloggeraldwin]

u get to rent out how much u made

[@joshconsultancy]

It was $2k a month. Enough to cover my ABSD then

[@bloggeraldwin]

@@joshconsultancy 5 years renting out ? Is around 120,000 over 5 years ya cover absd

[@frankauerbach]

400k+ you also sell?

[@joshconsultancy]

It's a 3rm

[@frankauerbach]

@@joshconsultancy If 3rm then it is good value. I have bought and sold hdb 4 times and condo twice to make money.

[@dav3105834]

Just wondering, why is ur first hdb a resale unit and not bto? Did u use ur bto chance? Its a easy 300-400k gain for most ppl

[@gohpb]

If he sold his resale flat, then the profit margin is low. If he sold his flat purchased direct from HDB then profit margin will be larger

[@joshconsultancy]

Oh yes BTO is a sure win fall. I started work during university days already and back in 2011 we breached income levels for BTO then at 8k

[@ocswoodlands]

I can understand why josh is a property bear. if you hold a property for 8 years and only get 17% capital appreciation and maybe about 5% x 6 years of rental yield,its not hard to see why you are a bear..... my own property story is quite the reverse. including rental, my hdb yielded me a profit of 215% over 15 years. sold off in Feb 22.... not out of my will but forced by hdb to sell (long story).....

[@joshconsultancy]

Yes indeed ocs. But you've rode a few waves up quite possibly the 2007-2009 wave which was big that could explain the difference

[@andrewufo]

I feel that hdb is just a no brainer and hard to compare who made more because its a subsidized apartment by the govt with alot of conditions. It is sure win if you bought bto. So comparisons of hdb to the wider condo market is unfair. I agree with Josh and ive been saying it for years. If you look at property price index, 2010 to 2020.. we had 10years and hardly any growth in price. Then came covid 0% booster, and now all the experts are born saying how good property investment is. Even if your condo made 10% gain over 10 years, its still quite a bad investment. Anyway.. property only goes up ya :)

[@tedchandran]

Jai Hinduja. Huat now. Rental is around 3K. Sooner or later, all HDB owners could be the owner of a million dollars flat.

[@lukeeong]

Actually, it doesn’t make much sense to sell this. Property market is cyclical. I look at it over at least a 10 year period. Rental yield will likely increase though not in a linear fashion. Renting out 15 years, would have recovered all cost, the future rental yield will be pure profit.

[@joshconsultancy]

As of now rental yields are increasing. But when i first started renting, the climate wasnt like that. I had neighbours looking for tenants are $1700 and less for a full 3room hdb. I view good times not lasting forever

[@lukeong3932]

@@joshconsultancy yah can’t predict

[@saigo1718]

Josh, u mean u really sell your own property or ??🤔 Or are you advertising for the housing agent?:) No offence but just wanted to be clear because i really respect all your views.🙏😊

[@joshconsultancy]

This video is sponsored by ohmyhome who I engaged to help me sell. So I'm narrating from a real end user. Sold. That 437k is my transaction. Hope it clarifies =)

[@saigo1718]

Tks Josh!!! Really appreciate all your videos!!!🙏🙏🙏😊

[@saigo1718]

Josh, by the way do you see property prices in spore falling next 2-3 yrs or you sell becos you think you can get better yields and capital appreciation elsewhere? Tks:)

[@joshconsultancy]

@@saigo1718 Both. Im more confident on the phrase "better appreciation elsewhere" than "property prices falling in next 2-3y". The latter DOES NOT have evidence of presenting itself yet and is a highly contrarian forecast

[@andrewufo]

@@joshconsultancy i fully agree. Singaporeans too obsessed with property, like its the only way to get returns. Worse is they buy regardless of entry point. Facepalm

[@TheHumbleChartist]

[@joshconsultancy]

Thanks THC