I Spoke To Bungie.

[@AscendantNomad]

Lads. I'm aware of the starter pack fiasco. It's infuriating to see it and having it drop after this summit it's objectively is a slap in the face. I share everyone's rage about it. This video was made before it happened and in hindsight, I probably should have waited to release this video. It is what it is.

[@iDannyism]

NOT YOUR FAULT. Bungie used you. That's it. This isn't on you at all.

[@exxy9931]

But here's the thing: You're willing to take responsibility for shortcomings for things you can't even rightly predict; something Upper "Management" sorely lacks for things entirely in their control.

[@kurtblacklake]

Maybe a video "dril tweeting": "regarging at least the suits at bungie: you should not, in fact, "gotta hand it to them" "

[@treyrandall2983]

Off topic; Checkmate: Not a fan... What is the sandbox? Like my Bow threadlings/clones is useless, sadly (I had fun). Tried Radiant frostees, kinda worked... Has more downtime if you r not chaining... Took 120 out for a spin & ran out of Medals, so... Is it still hand cannons & shotguns/snipers?

[@GhostRydr1172]

The fact that monetization was an off table topic is a really huge red flag. The stakeholders are in charge, and making the playerbase happy is absolutely NOT a priority. I cannot in good conscience buy FS. I just can't. I guess I'll see this story's end thru vids or a stream, but the thought of giving Bungo one more cent is nauseating tbh.

[@defixiate]

I think Nomad spoke to Bungie y’all

[@AymenDZA]

NO WAY !

[@六奶糖]

I dont believe you

[@TheFarslayer]

How do you know?

[@Moonkiller25]

Lmao yeah sure buddy😊

[@ReconSpades]

Highly doubt it.

[@SealFormulaMaster]

This is pure damage control... And they even failed at that by preventing people from talking about the most pressing concerns like MTX. They know a chunk of us are bailing after Final Shape, they know a chunk of us don't care about Marathon, they know a chunk of us don't care about Matter or Gummy Bears or whatever they got planned next. They wanted to say "Hey, stick around, we got gas left in the tank!" but that's not what we needed to hear. We needed to hear they still cared about Destiny and the community. And while I'm sure the Boots (aka, the Devs, CMs, and even the janitor) still care, the Suits don't. They just want the turd swept away from the bank door so they can make a withdraw.

[@GFlight.916]

"The Boots and the Suits" I like that

[@SmokeDrawRepeat]

I don’t get why people are waiting to bail until final shape and not before….why would anyone preorder this dlc based on history? Now if it comes out and it’s a banger than sure purchase but anything else is just enabling or rewarding the issue.

[@leafyyy7365]

Im not even playing it, i'm just gonna watch the Byf recap

[@SilverSurfer17]

Yeah that pretty much sums up the entire situation here. All in all none of this matters when the management won’t do what’s right.

[@garrettviewegh9028]

@@SmokeDrawRepeatBungie, when partnered with Activison, once said, that Destiny would be a ten year journey. For those that have played since D1, by Final Shape, it will have been ten years. Final Shape is narratively, shaping up to be the end of the story of Destiny. At least this saga. It will have been the end to *their* story. The one they started since rising in the Cosmadrone in D1. Much like the MCU, fans that had been around since the beginning, see this as a good jumping off point. Final Shape is the end of one saga, but not Destiny as a franchise. But for many D1 veterans, it *is* the end. News of how bad the game has gotten for some since Shadowkeep, doesn’t help either. There’s still a few looter shooters out there that are just as good as Destiny. If not offering a similar experience: Warframe, and the Borderlands series (though many seem to agree Borderlands 2 is still the best of the series). Some live service looter shooters still release and die off. Not because of Destiny, but because if the underhanded practices that disrespect players. In time, if studios learn, they’ll offer rpg, mmo rpg, and looter shooters WITHOUT micro transactions. When that day comes, people will have moved on to other simialr games to scratch that particular itch. Some, are now, or going to move in from Destiny 2 after their 10 year journey, for them, has ended. Some games, like Warframe, Borderlands, The First Descendent, Remnants 2, and others, are already offering a similar experience to players that like games like Warframe and Destiny 2.

[@iDannyism]

This is how Bungie is improving the New Light Experience: They're selling a $15.00 pack of gear to help newbies, who just paid for the game, to get caught up. You're welcome.

[@anthonyjoel9581]

These summits, twabs/twibs/twids, and posts with corporate "we hear you" speak fall so flat when their actions are going and doing scummy shit like this. They are not taking all the community's outage seriously no matter how much they say they are or try to get KZbinrs to say they are.

[@iDannyism]

@@anthonyjoel9581 Taking it a step further, I believe that Bungie are using content creators to falsely present a narrative. I think this specific example is an excellent indicator. Bungie holds a meeting with content creators and builds a narrative, which they pass to on right before the launch of a new season, which is a historical sale time for Bungie. Content creators pass the false narrative along, sales go up, and Bungie pushes things out like this $15 pack. More of the same from Bungie but now they're making the content creators look like idiots.

[@anthonyjoel9581]

@@iDannyism agreed. I'm always wary when I see these summits/events that content creators are invited to. The company is always curating the experience to be heavily positive and in their favor no matter what is going on behind the scenes. I liken it to someone going on those preplanned tours in North Korea and coming back and saying "Hey, NK is actually a pretty decent country! Their military is huge and everyone has lots of food, is super happy and dances and sings all day!"

[@flamingscar5263]

its an MMO, they are expensive, Bungie will just do what all MMOs do, nickel and dime fighting Bungie on this is not just an uphill battle, its trying to run up a 90° hill, Bungie will just follow what the top players in the MMO scene are doing, and unfortunately that top player is Activision Blizzard wit World of Warcraft, as long as they get away with charging over $200 a year for their game, Bungie will get worse and worse

[@Spike2276]

​@@user-pq8on8bx9g We know you don't need 3 average exotics and a small handful of currency, but what about the new player? They are the target audience for that pack, and they have no choice but to assume that if it's being sold it's because it has some value Imagine then a new player buys that stuff and learns that it's barely worth 5$, let alone the 15$ they paid, that leaves a bad taste in their mouth which might lead to the new player quitting Then there's the fact that D2's biggest barrier to entry has always been it's price tag, which is both very large and very disjointed (as in: wtf do i need to buy and why?), and adding another layer (one that is actively misleading IMO, because it's does barely anything to help you "get started" in the game) only serves to further muddy the waters for the new player Without new players D2 stagnates, with stagnation the game becomes worse, with the game being worse old players leave, and eventually the game dies. Not to mention the obvious drop off point that TFS will be for many veterans who just want to see the story through and then quit, which means Bungie needs new players more than ever

[@auroral0realis]

2:56 when they said they're working on it, they meant they were soon to drop a 15 dollar "starter" pack! very very not tone-deaf /j

[@MATT-660]

I imagine it'll actually be the into the light thing from the way joe phrased it

[@jonahe1004]

Thanks for doing what you’re doing, Nomad! Definitely feels like a “too little too late” sitch, but here’s hoping I’m just being cautiously pessimistic Hang in there for Wish y’all!

[@starvinmarvin351]

The only question that really matters is upper management listening to the developer? That's it. If upper management is still unwilling to listen to the developer then nothing is going to change.

[@bluestriker]

the only thing those "managers" care is money, but they won't understand that in order to get money, you have to satisfy the customer so they will buy more.

[@the_real_ick]

"We hear you." The devs might hear us, but it seems like upper management has thwarted the efforts of those who have done the "hearing". Actions not words is what we need to witness.

[@mythe6669]

.... and we just witnessed a $15 starter pack on Steam. Imo not a great look, especially given the community sentiment atm. Does not seem like the higher ups are listening or care for that matter.

[@GarydeBrown]

No doubt Nomad intimidated them with his high class British dialect, manners and intelligence. If only you got to have a meeting with the suits at the top instead of the developers whose hands are tied. I bet you would’ve handed them their ass in the most civilized discourse with dignified dialogue and a few witty passive aggressive jabs in between. Maybe one day… maybe.

[@cooldudeninja0219]

Honestly I think it's to late to say sorry and well I recently watched Datto first imperssions on season of the wish cause he made one. I was waiting for some sort of catch to tell me I can fuck off and do other things cause Bungie hadn't changed, I got my wish when I heard about the starter bundle on steam for new players. I was told I can fuck off and do other things cause they still don't give a fuck about it's community or me as the player... The saying "Action speaks louder then words" has never been truer then in this moment where Bungie needed to show change and that they care about this community or just the simple thing of don't be greedy.

[@nomad_specter]

One thing that would really help is getting the performance of the game back up to par. I can’t tell you how frustrating it is to have a solo run ruined by a teleporting screeb or magically appearing dreg. Or for you to be matched with players whose ping is in 200-400 range when I have a ping at 14.

[@HowdyHowdy_]

I mean like you said, it's all just words and Bungie has used the sentiments of "We're Listening" so many times it means nothing anymore. The only thing they can do to win myself back is actually prove it, and if that insultingly pathetic Starter Pack is anything to go by I'll believe them when they actually make the game into something players want and not just something to burn credit cards on.

[@zaokdimenoms7670]

I think focusing on the "is it any good", as far as weapons goes, shows a very very limited scope for the game, if they truly believe that is the scope of the issue, then they really don't expect to revolutionise anything from the game. This game could have space travel, trading, real and meaningful ships, planets like the dark zone from the division.... Destiny's problem has never been balancing or content, it's always been scope, the game stayed where it is. Probably the last real evolution, as funny as it sounds was the vaulting mechaning, otherwise it's all just been added to the same foundation, when the problem is we want more foundations, new stuff.

[@UshankaMaster]

The scope, exactly. It was why I was so pissed when I saw first Destiny 2 gameplay footage. I thought, man, it’s the same shoot again…

[@KiddBuu_]

Which is exactly why I got sick of the game. Nothing gets me hyped cuz I know it’ll just be the same content we’ve gotten for ten years in another flavor. When I booted up the Destiny 1 beta almost 10 years ago, I thought the game would have been FAR beyond what we have today 5 years later. It’s now been double that time and all we’ve gotten is features we should’ve had long ago, features we had that they took away from us, quality of life changes, and some natural evolutions to systems. Side note: it’s crazy that Destiny players just accept that bosses are just big versions of regular adds. One of the laziest things I’ve seen in a RPG game.

[@jackburkel4119]

Couldn't agree more, if destiny added space combat or over hauled the over worlds on destinations I'd be so much more excited to play the game

[@KiddBuu_]

@@jackburkel4119 patrols need a whole rework…like, all of the maps need to be redesigned to actually not just feel like a video game space and not be woefully empty.

[@kokorochacarero8003]

I've come to detract I feel like I've already watched this exact video before. Countless times, for many games It was never followed by any form of meaningful, possitive change that aligns with what players claim they want Cynical as it sounds, the proven business model is to make your players feel like they NEED to play your live service game. Not to make them WANT to play. Not to make it ENJOYABLE to play. Not to make it the best GAME it could possible be. No, the priority is to make it the most profitable, which at some point in history meant it needed to be all of the above, but not anymore. We'll see more extrinsic motivation coming in the form of loot, achievements, reissued weapons with a different seasonal sticker, power requirement increments, "returning content", resets, login rewards, and so on. The game will keep devolving into an excuse for the eververse store. We're all merely complaining about symptoms, the underlying disease is baked into the fundaments of the design. It's systemic I do believe the devs care But it's not in the best interest of the company that they act according to their cares and principles. It's a business. It doesn't need to make players happy, it needs to make the most ammount of money possible. And we've played a significant role in making it so that player happines and profit are not directly proportional to each other. We will claim to be miserable while grinding Destiny 2 and at the same time buy every single expansion, season pass, cosmetic and microtransaction because at this point everybody is too invested This is the story of countless big live service videogames Edit: looking at this comment section, it seems people have finally started to realize the endlessly moving goal post of "rewards" and "loot" is a fundamentaly a cancerous concept and that "but muh looter shooter" is not that good of an argument anymore

[@gummybearazzl5320]

This truly helped me decide how I'm going to view Bungie. I uninstalled D2 yesterday. I don't think i will be going back after this. I love your content and will continue to watch it. Thank you for your words, time and effort. You're greatly appreciated. 🙏🏼

[@lagginluther]

I uninstalled it back in September and haven’t touched it since then. So glad I did that as I’m balls deep into another game now.

[@UshankaMaster]

Welcome to the club, guys. I’ve been playing cyberpunk and elden ring a lot since I gave up on d2

[@nygomi8652]

I've been clean for over a year and a half now, welcome to the club. Been enjoying working my way through my backlog of games that I got on deals.

[@PompousPicard1]

“Too little, too late” says it all. As a PvP main, I haven’t logged in for 3-4 months, and I’m not hearing a single reason to now. Regarding the map pack, I’ll believe it when I see it in the game, and not before. Halo Infinite is great right now, as is Titanfall 2, and that’s where I’m spending my time now. As a PvP player, I felt taken for granted by Bungie for a LONG time. I had 3500 hours in this game, mostly in PvP. They lost me, and all this scrambling they’re doing now truly is too little, too late.

[@hypemaddox]

1:46 here is where I stopped caring. Thank you for giving the benefit of the doubt but heard all I needed.

[@matthewbanko9258]

Great video Mr. Nomad! Despite everything’s that’s happened in the last couple of months, and the thorough disappointment that was Lightfall & the Raid, I am hopeful for what Bungie wants to do and can do. As long as there’s people there that really care, I’ll remain hopeful.

[@Neighthanyelling]

I know it’s looked at as “unprofessional” to use the f bomb but when someone you watch frequently uses it especially at the very end and in that tone, it feels really fuckin real.

[@Neighthanyelling]

I want to make a point here Bungie instantly earned more disrespect shortly after this comment because I found out about the STARTER PACK shenanigans

[@Essencealex17]

So basically the same think they said in every expansion They " hear us " and we'll have to wait For the expansion to arrive So nothing changed

[@someguyusa]

I love the game. I think Joe and probably most of the individuals are cool AF. However, the bottom line is that they need to deliver. If that means proverbially stringing up some greedy or stupid executives or whatever to be able to actually produce a great game, then just get it done. I don't care about pretty words and speeches. I care about results.

[@omgraggy5358]

Very smart of them to release another sort of MTX. Great way to earn back trust

[@memphisacosta2145]

Imma be perfectly honest. Final is shape is most likely going to be great. Literally because it needs to be great. When the game is close to being 6 feet under is when bungie makes their best content. This has happened twice before. But i dont think they have ever had as much time as this to get it right.

[@BahamutBreaker]

I think the last think Nomad said in this video is the most important. Community members really need to stop referring to a nebulous “Bungie” like it’s a hive mind or a boogeyman. Within Bungie, there are game designers, engineers, artists, and community outreach staff, all working on Destiny 2. On the whole, these people genuinely care about the state of the game, and they want to produce the best possible product. Also within Bungie, mutually exclusive of the aforementioned Destiny-focused employees, are executives, finance/budget officers, directors, and human resources personnel. These people are responsible for running the *business* - in other words, keeping the proverbial lights on at the studio, attracting and retaining talent, setting overarching company goals, and adjusting to larger trends and forces in the economy and broader marketplace, globally. It’s important to realize that Destiny 2 is a cog within the business of Bungie. It’s not the other way around, as I suspect many gamers might mistakenly believe. Bungie (the business) gives the Destiny 2 team a budget, a timeline, a goal, and maybe some general direction. The Destiny 2 team, then, takes that budget, timeline, etc., and sets to work, creating the best product they can, within that given budget and timeline. So, when one criticizes “Bungie”, think about *who* you’re actually wanting to criticize. Are you critical of microtransactions? If so, your criticism needs to be directed at Bungie’s management. The Destiny 2 team employees have very little, or (more likely) zero influence on how much monetization is implemented. However, if your criticism is more like, “loot is boring” or “Endless Vale is a shitty map”, then *those* criticisms *should* be directed to the Destiny 2 team.

[@yakdeculture9761]

Did somebody ask at al if they're changing their 'OVERDELIVERY' ethos towards expansions and updates? Or did Bungie just give these creators a script to read from while wining and dining them?

[@pouf875]

Hey thanks for talking about the Why Should We Care About Weapons section … hearing this sounds like a good step forward. If only the upper management executives understood that their approach to monetization actually drives people away, it’s the same situation as to would you trust someone who has experience in doing something for a long time with success (bungie) or would you trust the person who only is an expert in theory , who has only read books about what they do

[@nerothelost9605]

Im really looking forward to seeing what the game looks like after final shape. Been here for 10 years now. What a journey!

[@vampman1979]

Same but I feel it'll just be more empty promises!

[@semiefficientgamer889]

I don't like how creators and bungie harp on rewards rewards rewards. The truth of the matter is that the content doesn't demand better weapons than we already have and powercreep might bring temporary relief but as long as we don't have content that doesn't scale and doesn't warrant more than a few playthroughs, we will never be excited to grind for new options. The problem is and always has been the type and volume of new activities being released.

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

Sunsetting was a horrible idea. The problem now is that there doesn't seem to be an end to D2. D3 needed to happen like a year ago. Witch queen should've been the last D2 Expansion

[@max-a-million9428]

No it really wasn’t, MMO-type games need a way to filter out loot to be able to incentivize getting new things. Making a whole new game to solve an, in theory, relatively easy problem is ridiculous. The way they went about it wasn’t the greatest, but if they are going to continue supporting D2, I do feel like sunsetting will make a return at some point. I am very tired of using Forbearance, literally came out 2 years ago and no other GL has held a candle to it.

[@ThePackman627]

​@@max-a-million9428except D2 isn't an MMO bro. It tries to be but they can't make enough weapons fast enough

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

@@max-a-million9428 crying about using a weapon when you have other options is hilarious. Just because YOU don't WANT to use anything else doesn't mean that YOU are FORCED to use it. Sunsetting was a detriment to the game that it's still suffering from. And no amount of sun setting will stop you from being a meta slave. And no matter how many times Bungie tries to convince people Destiny 2 will never be an MMO. It's not even close. There's nothing even close to being "massive" when talking about Destiny 2's multiplayer aspects. D3 should've happened years ago. But people like you are thinking that taking away content that we paid for is the solution

[@max-a-million9428]

@@ThomasTheTankEngine22 why would I get excited to chase loot that is intentionally worse than items I already have. "Meta slave" LMAO you either a geriatric old man or braindead, pick one. Wasn't being hostile in my comment at ALL, but the hardcore players are the toxic ones right?

[@max-a-million9428]

@elephantality3753 that raid is two years old, there is nothing "end game" about vow anymore, LITERALLY 1600 power raid

[@PANIAGUA35]

I think seeing and caring if different from delivering something we all truly want it’s like saying I know something shitty just happens but here is my thoughts and prayers

[@vaporition]

I'd really have to ask you to watch this vid entirely yourself & listen to how seriously they weren't taking this & how u were basically curated to questions u already have answers too.

[@vaporition]

@@OllyRoger was actually jus crafting a thread to highlight this

[@ezze-does-it]

Seriously. it almost comes across shameful and it was a monumental waste of the content creator's time. I learned nothing.

[@STARSRav3n]

"A delay is better than a rush" According to bungies GDC. They dont believe that

[@daveadams6489]

Appreciate you sharing your experience here. There are some very obvious elements in the room this release, but it's cool to know the community engagement is restarting.

[@fusi0ncatalyst191]

"loot comes first" is a fundamentally flawed idea for a live service game intending to last indefinitely. Better loot will never make a bad activity good. If you play content, get the loot, and decide it wasn't worth your time, then fundamentally you didn't enjoy the activity. Getting amazing loot might make it worth the pain of playing bat content, but the content is still bad. If you had fun, and get crap loot, that's an issue, but that issue is much easier to fix. What I love about refreshed raid loot is that it gives me a reason to go back and run the raids I had fun running. But that is the type of content where the only reward I need to jump in is something like my clan mate needs to complete a challenge. GREAT, I'm in, I won't get any loot, but my friend got what he needed and we had fun. If you put "just have loot" at the end of a long crappy grind, I am still going to play it, get the loot, and then go complain about how disrespected my time is, and how bad the game is. Good loot doesn't fix bad gameplay. It never will.

[@kokorochacarero8003]

THIS Make the game good, players will play regardless of the rewards If you train players to play for an endlesly increasing loot pool of worthless filler items, that's a war of attrition you'll never win. Intrinsic motivation vs extrinsic motivation

[@dinckelman]

The sad part of this is that the developers are bending over backwards to somehow make this up, but the faceless upper management are back on that bullshit train, with 20$ armor skins, 15$ emotes, and 15$ "starter" bundles that are neither meta, not difficult to get even for a brain new player

[@maliticus7474]

Bungie took 1.2 billion in Sony money meant for employee retention and used it to buy back employee owned stocks and then did mass layoffs. What else does one need to know about bungie?

[@kieronmckay4276]

“Re-establishing contact with the community” is a waste of time if your game population is pissed at the company and your game sucks. “They really fucking care” is pretty debatable…they care about looking like they care…that’s not the same thing as actually caring. It’s okay you fell for some food marketing speak. Some people can see through that shit and know better.

[@Clay_333]

Did they wait at least 1.4 seconds between questions?

[@Ranthop]

At the very least it's good news. The fact there was even a community summit at all helps morale. I'm still going to coast my way past most of this lengthy season. Actual change takes time, I'll look forward to seeing some fraction of it in Final Shape.

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

So basically damage control. Par for the course. They've been doing damage control since D1Y1 faceplanted and they pulled the "10-year plan" out of their butts...and then proceeded to change management, change staff, lay off tons of people, let Activision call in reinforcements to do the heavy lifting, etc. etc. Truth of the matter is...Destiny as a game, as a concept, as an experience, has gotten WAY out of Bungie's scope to maintain and things will not be getting better. The vision is too scattered, the design intention is completely lost, and management can no longer control it any longer. The sooner people accept that and move on from it, the better.

[@MyNameIsNurf]

The same people are still in charge. Until that changes, nothing meaningful will.

[@samfitzmaurice9387]

For as wonderful as Nomad is, the Patrick Bateman bedroom still scares me

[@YouStayClassySanDiego]

I didn't play a whole lot the last couple of seasons - just enough to complete the story and a few raids plus casual PvP. I've come back a bit more at the (very early) start of this season and am definitely enjoying it. Both PvE and PvP. Will that be enough to keep me playing through the next 7 months? Probably not, but taking breaks with this game is not really a bad thing.

[@VoidShyrok]

No. Sunsetting was a terrible idea and it should not be standardized by a company that nickels and dimes its players at every turn. Just create a seasonal white list of weapons you can take into the crucible to create a rotating sandbox. They can turn off exotics FOR SOME REASON. Why not limit the stuff people can use in comp or the crucible lab? Y'know, balancing 101.

[@Lonzology]

THANK You. THE ISSUE Isn't that theres alot of weapons, sunsetting is a form of scamming people. NOW WAY people spend over $200 on a GAME only to have the items they can't use anymore because they capped out the power level. SUNSETTING IS HORRIBLE, what they need to do is add unique ness to each weapon give people reason to use different weapons not by perks but just buy bonus statsical numbers. Dungeon weapons are a good example of this, each new dungeon since witch queen has uniqueeness, both in design and feel and traits. SUNsetting is going to kill 90% of the player base.

[@Yesidoplaytheguitar]

Aaaaaaand then they added a 15$ pack with actual usefull stuff for the newbies, who just spent half their life-savings to get into the game in the first place. Great for player onboarding, I'm sure.

[@zombiepicnic9683]

Asking a community manager, or even a dev, about microtransactions is like asking the night manager at McDonalds why Big Macs are so expensive. Decisions about MTX (pricing, implementation, etc...) are made at a corporate level; the folks with letter combinations before their names. Those people only care about money, and they know full well that they are completely insulated from the blowback surrounding their greedy decisions.

[@XbaconfordayzX]

At this point if Bungie was actually listening to us we wouldn't have the "starter pack" scam we currently have so I'm done expecting anything from them at this point

[@ready1player31]

It’s all PR. People ought to know by now they don’t care about making the game enjoyable or cost effective after a certain point. We’ve passed the point on cost and we’re closing in on enjoyability if we haven’t already.

[@seb5542]

Tbf, theres a difference between developers and the higher ups that make those sorts of decisions with monitisation.

[@brandonduet385]

Speaking as someone who has played this franchise on and off since the beta of Destiny 1, this isn't the first time they've done this. It's ironically close to the re-skinned weapons in terms of repetition. They build on mistake after mistake after mistake until the community is in an uproar. Followed by a meeting of leadership saying we messed up, we apologize, we won't do it again. Over and over and over again this has happened. They have not learned from this. They may listen and care as you've said, but that isn't shown. The monetary grabs that closely resemble a mobile game and their lack of understanding as to what made this game so great all those years ago have been lost. It was lost with their ego. It was lost to their corporate greed. It was lost to the bottom dollar they would lose players to turn around and fire all those people because of poor decisions made by leadership. This company has sold its very soul to corporate greed and there is no amount repenting to make up for the game that could have been great for years to come, but was lost to the aether of monetization.

[@Croi_Fiain]

Mature, as always. Much respect. (And interesting to hear your take on the state of things 👍🏻 )

[@blebreton06]

Actions speak louder than words, they say they understand and will work on problem points…. Then drop a $15 bundle of old exotics and some resources, ALL EARNABLE IN GAME, they sure are learning eh 🤔

[@AceInTheSpade]

Appreciate you sharing all your insights and thoughts Ascendant.

[@Nexuish]

The summit was an attempt to get content creators to ( knowingly and unknowingly) run damage control going into this new season. No shade at content creators, but I’m no longer giving non-developers any benefit of the doubt with my cynicism. The blatant sidestep of monetization, one of the biggest issues with the game right now, doesn’t sit well with me. Didn’t even collect sentiments to take back for whatever reason ( though I doubt it’d even matter ). Bungie doesn’t have the trust anymore to say “just trust me, bro”

[@JTB-1]

You know, im a semi newlight, who joined at the end of Seraph. Its sad to think that even i have already noticed just how much crap is monetized to such an extreme degree. THAT BEING SAID. Im really looking forward to TFS. I think Bungi can do something really special with it, and im hoping they do. Everything im seeing recently from them is giving just a slight spark of hope

[@StrangerX9]

Where are the UI changes? Where are the rest of the Stasis changes and buffs? Any chance for reprised raid weapons during this long ass season? Can we get the Red War Campaign back with a Legend mode? Is the 6th Darkness subclass coming with the delay?

[@stevengorospe712]

Thanks for your insight, I have been with this game since the beta. I have seen people come and go and all the backlash and hype that has happened. So, I'm assuming that all the community managers that were canned, were just a bottom-line casualty. And Joe Blackburn stating we f...up and need to have better community engagement and bring something better to the table in way of great content. Seems to me I have heard that in the past. Hard to be trusting of this studio if you keep hearing that same old song. Now with that, I still plan to see this saga through to the end, whatever that end may be. There is no other choice but to play or not to play!

[@Noneya5555]

If they in fact "really fucking care", then they wouldn't have made some of the really stupid decisions they made, in spite of the community's voiced displeasure. To the extent that Bungie cares is the loss of revenue. BTW, making almost all pvp activities CBMM is do nothing to attract new players - especially solo players - or convince casual players to return to pvp. If Bungie really fucking cares, then they need to stop bending going over for the elites (and holding clised-door meetings with them), and listen to the entire community. 🤨

[@ruinousronin]

Excellent video as always man. Well done. Very insightful and I honestly was surprised how much I feel I gleaned from this. Thanks! I actually feel this gave me a solid feel for where we are at. I'm hopeful but reserved about it. I really want to believe what I am hearing is what the real vibe and not some show, and that it comes to fruition. But this is pulling on the last of my, "It is what it is, hopefully it gets better soon." I got left in me. I hope they're being genuine in all of this. I think you are wise enough to be able to figure out the difference. So the remaining question is, can they deliver? I hope they can. Id love to keep playing this with my son for a while longer and see it improve. See the community grow and flourish. Fingers crossed.

[@TheXeroLink]

5:57 please no Sunsetting was a terrible idea. I threw away so much hard work when they did that, and then they reversed their decision…so no just no. Honestly I feel like that killed my engagement with the game

[@RuseVeil]

Joe: 'Any Questions in regards to the Delay?' A.N.: 'Why are we delaying the Reveal of Max Verstappen as Marcus Ren? SRL needs its champion!'

[@djungelskog9581]

I really wish they would've talked about monetization, it really feels like the root of a lot of the game's problems, from ritual and now iron banner armour not getting anything new to 8% of the studio getting laid off not to mention the awful feeling of being nickel and dimed at every turn it desperately needs to be addressed. I have full confidence in the devs to make the final shape something special, they care they always have. I don't have confidence that upper management is gonna get out of their way and let them work

[@MikaAugust]

@12:10 The statment of making PvP for people who play pvp rings kinda hollow as a titan main when the SC Ability has essentially been crippled with not much replacement

[@lumistrad]

This sounds, as you said, like a first try of a new way to interact with players after the previous was destroyed by threats and leaks. Bungie does not trust us anymore than we trust them and now they are trying to build a new relation with us. I am willing to meet them half way, skake their hand and work together to make Destiny as best it can be.

[@vaporition]

Personally I love Destiny but I dont get "they really fucking care" vibes from what we've experienced or seen the past several months, nor from the chopped up Season of The Wish trailer. When Witch Queen dropped, I FELT the energy of the campaign & the effects were strongly vested in. Imo, the devs are burnt out on both developments & managements continued "force feed" process of what management wants to do vs what the playerbase wants. It is overtly apparent that decisions being made are a matter of egotism & not based on the actual health of the game or its playerbase

[@Skm00n]

Sunsetting in Destiny 1 was fine. The content was not taken away from the game, the way to earn the weapons wasn't, and neither were the weapons. And with the "Age of Triumph" update, we got to use these old weapons again for FREE, FREE!

[@CAPICU44]

Care to explain why they are charging $15 for a starter kit for new comers? 🤔 Bungie is a corporation out to make the most money. They care? 😢

[@dredgenrur3190]

"Upper management doesn't interact with the community at all", well, I think that sums everything up. There's the source of the problem. If the executives and upper management don't interact with the community, all their decissions will be taken based off of what the devs, community managers, etc, will report to them, and I'm not against any dev or CM here, but they will never tell their superiors how things are going in the same way as any player would do. After all, if an executive has had a bad day for whatever reason, and they then get a report saying "New thing isn't working, players are dropping the game", they may fire whoever gave them the report, or the devs that worked on what was reported, and they were only following orders. That means that the report they'll get would be more like "New thing works, but not as well as we expected". And this makes it so we get tone deaf things such as the starter pack, don't even get me started on that, ornament bundles that cost more than the game they're based on, or the past 4, almost 5 years of seasonal content, which is basically the same every time, meanwhile they have been filling up their bank accounts. This would change if the executives were to engage with the community, then they would see what the community really wants, they would see that they're scaring away new players and making veterans drop the game, D1AlphaVet for example. They would see that this won't work on their plan of keeping Destiny alive beyond TFS, because the way things are going, it isn't possible. There's already a large portion of the playerbase that will drop the game after all the main stuff from TFS is done, and those of us that will remain, will do so but playing every few months for a few days each time if things don't change. That's not the way to treat the community this game has built over almost 10 years, the people that has thrown 60+ buck each year on each new DLC + whatever cosmetics they've bought. Not even EA has done such a thing. If disloyalty was a person, or a group, it would be Bungie's executives and upper management.

[@xkumanekox]

I love Gambit, more than that pvp cesspool, but if Bungie was gonna get rid of it, then just remove it entirely from the game instead of keeping it around gathering dust in the corner.

[@Ares180BPM]

It's like we're watching Bungie punch themselves in the face whilst we're sayin: "Bungie, please stop punching yourself in the face..." They stop, and look at us and give us a smile, the go right back to punching themselves in the face. 😢 There's only so long anyone can watch that

[@PopeStegosaur]

Yeah it's Bungie has given us the reassurances one too many times for me to continue with it as a studio.

[@charlesbarlow3970]

I'll be honest, I left D2 behind a few months ago. I've been focusing on other hobbies and I have been playing competitive tcg's, I miss D2 everyday, and want to return but until I have more substantial evidence that the team is turning things around I don't want to go back to feeling the way I did the last few months I was playing.

[@Spike2276]

Thinking back to the videos of the summit prior to Forsaken's release it felt...different, like back then Bungie was REALLY confident in what they were going to put out, this time it seems they were more reserved But at the end of the day the one big question remain: is Bungie allowed to make the D2 they need to make in order to satisfy us? We now know that Bungie has a problem at it's top, and that this top brass has ultimate control over what makes it into the game regardless of the devs best intentions, and the starter pack feels like a clear message from those people at the top: we don't care about player sentiment, we care about our profit being below projections I'll continue to wait and see, my plan to potentially buy TFS after watching some reviews and then completely ignore episodes has not changed, but somehow this summiy doesn't feel like it moves the needle enough

[@TimelostInTheSauce]

No way Nomad spoke with John Bungie himself?

[@ChrisRavage]

Bungie - “ We know we need to build trust again” Also Bungie - “Hey I’ve got an idea, let’s put a 15.00 ‘Starter Pack’ in the game and rip off all the new players 🤦‍♂️

[@pedromoreira6218]

ngl regarding what they said to me at this point is just words its basicly the cliche "We Hear You" i dont understand how a company nearly 10 years into a franchise still think that the way a game should be managed is putting themselves into a corner then do something amazing once in a while its gotten worse because of how aggresive and predatory the monitisation has gotten and honostly the community has no one to blame but themselves because for every bs they tried selling the community ate it up and gave excuses for them and now here we are

[@ronin9380]

Thanks for the hard work!

[@jonrainbow123]

I play it on and off casually, so I feel like I see it from a larger perspective in time. And I keep seeing these patterns of "bungie fucks up, builds back favor by doing some good stuff, then they fuck up again." The community continues to act outraged, continues to play, continues to buy mtx, and they continue to hum along. They rarely give the playerbase more than the top 1 or 2 items they've been asking for, but then when they give it, the community acts like its enough to give them some more time. I don't think a game should be compared to a relationship, its not a fair comparison, but this just feels like a toxic relationship. It feels like they slap their players, laugh in their faces, and then apologize with flowers a month later. Then do it over and over, and the community puts up with it because they've put so much time into it. We did the exact same cycle with Blizzard and WoW, until there was a mass exodus and blizzard had to start rebuilding from the ground up. But at the end of the day, they still dont give a shit about their "players" because there's millions of casuals out there, buying the occasional mtx, buying the new xpacs and season passes. And they give 0 shit about all these issues the dedicated players have. Bliz and Bungie are at just slightly different stages of this whole process.

[@cbp11678]

Gambit needs a revitalization. 1.bring back the gambit maps that we paid for and bungie took away. 2. Bring back the gambit prime mode that we paid for and bungie took away. 3. Bring back the gambit prime armor that we paid for and bungie took away. 4. Make all gambit weapons craftable. This is just a start.

[@Kaiser8361N]

The $15 starter pack aside, did anyone ask about the disgusting price tag that new players need to buy to have a decent to full experience to play Destiny with their friends? Any questions on whether ALL of these DLC’s gonna be bundled up for a reasonable price?

[@MaoriMufasa]

As sceptical as I am, I believe they are trying to create worth while content for players to enjoy 👍 As for how that content is sold to us... I have zero expectations/reasons to believe it will ever be fair to players. I've never felt more forcibly directed to open my wallet in ANY engaging instance, as I have when playing this game... Going to an arcade, mobile gaming... HELL, EVEN THE FEW TIMES I'VE PLAYED VIDEO POKER (ACTUAL GAMBLING) doesn't feel as predatory as this game. I feel like I'm missing out on so much content I personally feel I should have access too considering how much money the game asks for upfront, just to have every aspect of the game hit me with some type of paywall tied to it. 🖕

[@blebreton06]

Nomad basically confirmed that the people at the top of bungie don’t get involved with the community, but are still the people who have the power to change destiny 2’s current course, even though they put us here🤦🏼‍♂️ we are so screwed.

[@blebreton06]

Basically, it doesn’t matter how much devs etc… get involved. The only data that gets to the people up top is from the analytics team and revenue 😂 sounds like a dumpster fire way to run the company when the important people refuse to listen to feedback

[@BahamutBreaker]

The problem with your type of take is that is reveals an ignorance of the reality that all (or almost all) game studios (and all types of corporations and large business) function this way. Executives don’t interact with consumers. Maybe they should; I don’t know - ask a PhD in business administration, I guess. The point is - Bungie executives aren’t unlike the executives of other businesses.

[@CyrusMagni]

Will Destiny 2 ever get something akin to Forge mode from Halo? It helped kept the Halo franchise alive way back when. It would give many people including my self an avid PVP player more to do and even my Non-PVP friends a reason to play PVP. They've even stated that if Destiny had Forge mode they'd "no-life" it for a while. It'd be a good thing to fill a 7 month long gap till Final Shape.

[@ZackZainal]

Devs and Executives not on the same page. Devs, let's make perfumes for customers. Executives, let's make it interesting by making turf smelling perfumes.

[@GloverGaming3]

Are they aware of how many people are dropping the game after TFS? They might need to prioritize the New Light process a bit more than they think

[@sab3r270]

On paper I agree with "a delayed game is better than a rushed game" but then I remember halo infinite, and cyberpunk. Games I enjoy now but they both were extensively delayed before launch and still turned out rocky. I think bungie needs to find that focus to really nail the experience they want to deliver with this delay.

[@drshreddi7040]

That makes sense. "Creators" are what intestinal bacteria are to Humans. They are living a symbiotic life, so in this particular case the host was talking to them as to their future plans. Why not. I am simply not sure whether the host is really willing to listening to such small things as their symbiotic bacteria.

[@jmlordoftherings]

Sunsetting SHOULD NEVER BE A THING, PERIOD! How about MORE VAULT space or a different system that allows to save the weapons to your Console or Computer? Oh, you never thought about that? It's a freaking EASY SOLUTION!

[@forrestertoews8768]

idk why people are mad about the delay. I'm happy about it, id rather get something high quality than have another lightfall or cyberpunk experience. Destiny should have lows where we dont have new stuff, i need breaks from the game. This is all fine. Where they're gonna lose us is monetization and lack of quality. 4 shader bundle and ornaments in the store that all look better than the earnable stuff? Why cant we earn shaders anymore? SRL used to be peak. What happened to secrets in patrol spaces that gave us cool shaders? I can pay for flashy shit, but in activities im just getting the same armor ive been getting for years.

[@cattailsunrise7176]

How many naans would you rate it?

[@imSovi]

More unique reload animations. That will help feeling rewarded with loot. Trust.

[@sjolson68]

Cheers Nomad. I started playing in Forsaken, have 1400hrs and after the previous season found myself uninstalling for the first time as a mostly solo, pretty casual player. I was super skeptical of Sony's purchase of Bungie especially so close behind departing from Activision. It's a serious great game that needs a serious reboot. Fingers crossed.

[@christophercluster728]

I have a feeling into the light is going to slap and I’m all for it.

[@b0mberman]

It may be true that Bungie cares, but what needs to be communicated is whether the leadership that make decisions that affect players and gameplay “care”.

[@jazdeol7211]

I mean does it matter if the devs confessed to fucking up. I obviously believe them and know they want the game to be better but at the end of the day the decisions come from above their heads and they just have to follow them. Until the people above them start caring more, nothing will change.

[@Elfaia]

Datto's adage: Eververse is non-negotiable. Not exactly eververse per say in this context but you get what I'm saying.

[@Summerstitch539]

If you trust bungie at this point, I genuinely feel for you. I get the content creator angle and kinda being pigeonholed, but I feel for anyone who is still a fan of this company. They give you enough to keep you on the hook, they make it vague enough so you don’t snuff out all hope but at the end of the day, the game is EXACTLY what they want the game to be.

[@cameronsnyder88]

They try transparency and then immediately F up again with the starter pack ..... One step forward, two steps back.

[@abyssal_beans]

The only way player sentiment can be saved at this point is if someone stages a coup and takes over from the faceless Bungie execs. No amount of good content will outweigh the damage the mass layoffs have done and the Bungie employees who do care about the game can only do so much when the people running the studio only care about projected revenue.

[@beshman]

That looks like a bottle of Mai Dubai water in the background. Good times.

[@Zhiroc]

Maybe this makes me a "filthy casual", but a feeling I have is that "I don't play Destiny BECAUSE it's a looter-shooter, but rather DESPITE it being a looter-shooter". I play games for mainly two reasons: story or gameplay. Progressing is not a reason, and often, it becomes an anti-reason. In fact, since last season, I've played it rarely, and mostly because I'm tired of chasing gear, and every time I get something, I internally groan about having to evaluate it and then manage my inventory. But to me, Destiny gameplay is so fun that it feels a shame to waste it on chasing progression.

[@barbos1507]

8:06 This is the main problem for me to keep playing the game. Spiral the new seasonal activity, perhaps is the best content we've had since menagerie. However, the loot is utter trash. Same dreaming city guns, bland and weak new seasonal guns and no adept armor. I felt the real enjoyment playing pve in months. I wan't to play it again, but then I remember it has nothing worth to offer as a reward.