I Survived a Sawstop Brake Activation and Lived to Tell the Tale

[@davidness7523]

I've owned a Saw Stop PCS since 2009. In those 15 years I've set the blade brake off twice - both times in the last 12 months. Both incidents involved operator error - a nice way of saying "my stupidity." Neither resulted in any injury whatsoever, other than to my wallet and pride. The first incident involved the dado stack. I switched from a single blade to my dado stack and changed the cartridge. As you mention in the video, the gap between the blade brake and dado stack has to be adjusted to maintain the proper gap. This is a routine adjustment that I've done hundreds of times. Unfortunately, on this occasion, my change over routine was interrupted by a phone call and I never reset the gap. When I started the saw the dado stack contacted the blade brake and set it off. About $150 later (blade brake plus repairs to a couple chipped teeth on the dado), I was back in business. The new dado blade brake now comes with a warning to users to always reset the gap when installing the dado brake. Guess I'm not the only idiot. The second involved my standard, single blade brake. This brake, by the way, was the original brake that came with my saw. It was the first table saw cut of the day and after I powered the saw up it went through its usual blinking lights while the system ran through its checks. Instead of a solid green light, the saw had a solid red light. "Huh" I said to myself, "never saw that before." At this point I should have bent over and looked at the chart on the saw's power box to learn that a solid red light means "replace cartridge." But, no, I used the universal technology solution of turning the saw off waiting a few seconds and turned the saw back on. This time I got the normal solid green light, so I turned the blade on. Within seconds (and before the work piece touched the blade) the brake fired and my day took a turn for the worse. I contacted Saw Stop and they sent me a return label so they could diagnose the problem with the blade cartridge. There's also a on-line form you fill out. If the brake failure is a problem with the brake, Saw Stop sends you a new brake for free. My diagnostic report showed that my 15 year old cartridge had a build up of dust and "schmutz" inside that had accumulated over years of use. I do clean out my saw interior from time to time but I never did anything special to the cartridge. So, the new cartridge was on me but my Forrest WW2 blade only needed to be resharpened. Next time I think I'll check the chart if I see red and green lights blinking in some odd manner. I'll probably also hit that cartridge with a little compressed air from time to time. Lessons learned.

[@denslod2930]

You didn’t think they would take the blame. 😀

[@Parents_of_Twins]

Making a mistake doesn't make you stupid, it makes you human. We all make mistakes because we get tired or interrupted or get in a hurry. My dad knows a guy who teaches farm safety at a college. Very smart man PhD and he was doing something around a PTO shaft and it caught his pant leg and ripped off his calf muscle. My dad's not the charitable type and laughed at the guy, he wonders why he doesn't have a lot of friends, but obviously the man knew better but was probably tired or hungry or whatever that day and holy crap did he pay for that error. Mistakes happen and if we are lucky we learn with zero costs, if a little less lucky it costs us some money, and if unlucky we are injured or killed.

[@tomlepischak921]

42 years using a table saw. Never had an incident until 2 months ago. End of long day of cutting (8 hours). Getting tired but pushed for one more hour. Minutes after that decision, three fingers across the blade on left hand. Tip of one finger peeled back with 5 stiches. 8 stitches in the other and third one nicked. No stitches. One week later with pressure to get job completed. Third cut of the morning compensating for left hand, run thumb of right hand across the blade. 1/2" wide swath pushing waste to the side. No chance for stitches. Just wrapped up to heal. Hands still not 100%. Heard of the saw stop and purchased it immediately. Hopefully never have to go through this again. Cost of the saw $$$$ Saving a finger or two.......... Priceless!!!!! Always listen to your body when its telling you your done for the day.

[@MrEldoradot]

It is a worthwhile purchase for a klutz like myself.

[@steveswoodworking2504]

Ow! I'm glad you are mostly OK. That's why I got the SawStop, just in case. I'd rather go thru a little extra pain and cost dealing with something like this guy did, than be missing fingers.

[@boossersgarage3239]

[@bmw9616]

What do you do that you use a table saw for 8 hours a day?

[@darksu6947]

​@@bmw9616I bet he's cutting boards with it.

[@armchairtin-kicker503]

Considering $1,800 is just the cover charge for an emergency room visit these days, a $100 SawStop cartridge is a great deal.

[@contessa.adella]

1800…for a Nurse to say…’oooh that looks nasty’ and put a band aid on it. In UK that would cost me, let’s see…ummmm….oh yeah….Nothing! Ambulance into Emergency…Nothing, Having the wound stitched….Nothing, tetanus shots and antibiotics…Nothing, overnight care for observation….Nothing! The US medical system is a bad joke that leaves you crying and bankrupt unless you pay a fortune every month for insurance….SMH.

[@nisse68]

@@contessa.adella Everyone pays for healthcare, either through insurance, directly or to the tax man :)

[@feanor5037]

@@nisse68 Literally (literally literally) no one thinks healthcare doesn't cost anything at all. "Free" means free at the point of use so you don't need to worry about costs when you get hurt or ill, with those costs being spread out over a lifetime of taxes (or, in countries like Germany, a lifetime of insurance contributions)

[@MachinedInWood]

@@contessa.adellashows what you know - Barrack Obama fixed the US healthcare system………………….

[@davesiringo7147]

5k just to walk in the ER in Winston-Salem NC

[@KeithOlson]

I'm reminded of the saying "Stupidity _should_ hurt; it keeps us from repeating the same mistake again." Thank you for sharing _your_ 'stupidity', as it will serve as a good warning for the rest of us. (I, for example, would have probably have made *_exactly_* the same mistake if I had been in your place. Now--hopefully--I never will, thanks to your humility.) ...and this has made me even more determined to get a SawStop once I can afford to have my own shop. I've made enough expensive mistakes in my time to look at having to shell out $150 for a new cartridge as getting off cheaply!

[@TiBiAstro]

injuries that could potentially kill you are not life lessons, what a pathetic takeaway.

[@KeithOlson]

@@TiBiAstro "injuries that could potentially kill you are not life lessons" ...only if you don't learn from them. For those of us who *_are_* willing to learn from our mistakes, they teach us things that we can use to prevent worse mistakes.

[@paulhume8083]

Hi John, as a former metallurgist I can say that the blade will not have suffered from fatigue. As the name suggests fatigue happens over time and is not the result of something sudden and catastrophic. The two types of damage that could occur would be the blade being bent or a stress fracture. You can obviously use a straight edge to check the shape and watch it when it's spinning. To test for a fracture you can buy a dye penetrant test kit which are very cheap (£22 in the UK). You spray on a red dye that has ultra low viscosity and sinks into any crack no matter how small, even to the naked eye. Then you wipe it all off and spray on a white powder. Any red dye that has found its way into a crack will leech out and be exposed by the powder. To check for internal cracks you can rap a metal punch against it. If the sound changes over any area then there is damage. Of course the only way to be 100% sure would be to have the blades x-rayed or by using ultra sound but I've never heard of a blade shattering and flying apart and I've watched quite a few You Tube videos where people have intentionally activated the brake. Glad you're safe and enjoying your channel.

[@JohnSwitzer]

Thanks for the tips

[@edmundhayes7982]

A bent blade is easy to spot, but a stress fracture is not. I would be very cautious using it again. Maybe send it back to the manufacturer and let them check it.

[@ColinWatters]

They stop so fast I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't motor armature, shaft or bearing damage.

[@kevinbelanger4134]

Paulhume8083 the blade is now junk and saw stop doesn't recommend reusing the blade and blades are cheap to just replace its not worth the risk that it could come apart

[@kevinbelanger4134]

​@@JohnSwitzerplease don't reuse the blades there not safe anymore there wall art now

[@jamiemcglen4244]

My high school woodshop has a Sawstop, the brake gets fired about once a year. It’s always the cocky kid who has to know best because “that’s how his dad does it”. It’s an absolutely incredible piece of technology and seeing it fire is absolutely shocking how fast it is

[@carltonfaller3986]

Two friends with two different experiences. One has half a thumb. The other has a piece of steel, carbide, aluminum wall art / safety reminder and not even a scar.

[@mr.picklesworth]

Are you saying the sawstop failed for the first guy or he didn't have one?

[@Spiker985Studios]

​@@mr.picklesworth Sounds like the first one didn't have one, the second one did - hence the wall art of the brake

[@jackpritchard750]

I learned the same lesson exactly the same way, except with a 10” blade rather than a dado stack. Definitely a learning experience - I now check the miter gauge for clearance after every change in settings. In my case the brake and blade were locked together, so I hung them above the saw as a reminder.

[@herbhedeen8855]

Hey John-Great presentation. I formerly had a woodworking shop in the basement of an apartment building I used to own. A tenant who I trusted and who was very talented asked to use my SawStop cabinet saw to cut wood for a bed he was making, and I said yes. Later, when I resumed using the saw, I set off the brake cartridge. Turns out the tenant had reset the fence on my crosscut jig, and it contacted the saw blade, setting off the brake. In the 15 years that I owned the saw (I bought one of the earliest saws imported by SawStop) it activated the brake cartridges 4 times. Never because human flesh touched the blade, just metal in the wood, and so on. One time the blade was undamaged, but the other 3 times I sent the blades back to Forrest to be repaired. Forrest did okay by me and my SawStop! I was extremely pleased with this saw, its build quality and its safety. I feel exactly as you do about preventing a catastofic disaster to my hand. When Fine Woodworking Magazine had a blog about this, I wrote them a letter, part of which was published in a later edition.

[@myname7021]

this is a great example of how well the saw stop actually works. If that was your thumb, all you had needed was a small bandaid, but without it you'd be in the emergency room. Thanks for uploading this video!

[@debandmike3380]

if if if if if. if that was his thumb perhaps he shouldn't even be using a tablesaw in the first place. well it wasn't.

[@maeus8220]

@@debandmike3380 That's like saying "If you had dropped the bowl, maybe you shouldn't be eating soup in the first place". People make mistakes all the time, ESPECIALLY around objects they've used thousands of times and are familiar with. It happens. It's why this brake exists.

[@acmhfmggru]

Calling a failure a success is the definition of cope. This is an example of the saw-stop failing, and no matter how you try to frame it, that isn't a success.

[@myname7021]

@@acmhfmggru The saw stop did not fail. The operator failed. The saw stop is designed to stop once something conductive touches it. That is why it is installed on a wood cutting saw. No metal should ever touch the wood cutting blade during operation, but it did, and the saw stop activated as designed.

[@acmhfmggru]

@@myname7021 no, the saw stop is designed and exists to prevent and reduce chance of injury. The way it does that is with some surprisingly unsophisticated electronics. In this case the electronics incorrectly detected a hand where there was no hand and triggered unnecessarily. This is the definition of a "false positive error". In statistics this is called a "type 2 error". It is clearly and unambiguously an error. To insist that a misfire is actually accurate but on a non-existent target is fallacious reasoning. Grow up.

[@paulwaldrop]

I have a sawstop, and in spite of the cost of brakes, and such, I am glad that I paid the money to get it. It has saved my hand twice.

[@2hlix]

I haven't set off my sawstop yet (and I hope to not) but it's nice insurance. Replacing a whole PCS is cheaper than so many medical procedures to fingers. If you have the cash for upfront investment it's a great purchase.

[@richcooper9790]

I have a SawStop and triggered the cartridge with a dado stack. Unfortunately, I was using a stack with solid chippers. In their manual, SawStop recommends not to use solid chippers. The mass can be too great for the arbor. I did bend my arbor and had to replace the entire arbor assembly. Lesson learned, I have now read my SawStop manual cover to cover. The saw has saved me twice from serious injury, and I am thankful to have purchased it 19 years ago.

[@JohnSwitzer]

That is what I was starting to suspect, although I haven't been able to find that in my manual, just not more than 13/16 thick. What was involved in replacing the arbor?

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

@@jvmiller1995 be careful your hubris doesn't catch up with you. I'm an ER doc as well as a woodworker. I see power saw injuries regularly, and many of these happen to highly experienced people. They invariably say, "I've been working with these tools for XX years and I've never had an accident." I always give them the same reply: "Until now." You may have been using saws for 40 years without an injury, but all it takes is one thoughtless moment and your fingers are gone forever. I recently cut the tip of my ring finger very badly with my little palm router, and it's the first time in more than 30 years that I've cut myself with anything, even a pocket knife. All it took was one thoughtless moment. Never think it can't happen to you. And never look down on someone because it has happened to them.

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

@@jvmiller1995 I'm not arguing with your safety point, that is perhaps valid. But judging his experience as being due to "reckless" use of his tools is way out of line. You have no real idea how he does his woodworking, nor how his accidents happened. I'm saying your comment that he "should rethink if this entire woodworking thing is for you!" comes off as snotty and superior. You're telling him, in effect, that he should quit woodworking. That's unkind at best, and hubris at worst. Now, if you had said he should look seriously at revamping his safety practices, that would be appropriate. Words matter, sir. Injury risk can be reduced by safe practices, but it is increased by the fact that you continue to expose yourself to risk by continuing in your woodworking hobby. Statistically speaking, even the safest woodworker WILL have an accident sooner or later. Safe practices reduce the likelihood somewhat, and very likely will reduce the severity of the injury, but assuming your safety protocols will prevent you ever having an injury is unrealistic.

[@AN-12345]

​@@JohnSwitzer Sawstop says it can be done from the bottom, but other forum users have said it's easier to just remove the top and work from above for access. I don't personally have a Sawstop, but that's what I've seen online.

[@fj7509]

@@JohnSwitzer What dado stack were you rocking? Was it a Woodpeckers ultra shear with the full sized discs? I contacted SawStop myself after seeing your video, they heavily advised against using dado stacks like that with full sized discs. Not only can it destroy your arbor assembly like you found out, but it takes longer for the brake cartridge to stop it because of the mass. You want the dado stacks with chippers looking like 4 star ninja shurikens. Ridge Carbide makes a very good dado stack that's SawStop approved. But SawStop really should put this in their manual, if it's not too late I would call up their tech support and say that nowhere in the manual does it say to avoid full sized discs.

[@KenLee-e5y]

Thanks for sharing. You turned an oops into a teaching moment.

[@JR-rx2ke]

John: Here at our shop (retirement community) I am one of 3 shop members certified to work on the saw stop. THANK you for the wedge idea. I have changed I don't know how many activated brake cartridges (only one with a dado), including an activation by MY thumb. Also including two activations by misuse of that exact same jig you were using. I will tell you this: When I ran my thumb over the top of the blade - it happened exactly as you demonstrated!. I only used one(1) regular band aid over the top of my thumb In less than 10 minutes I had the saw up and running, as we keep extra brake cartridges and a brand new blade on hand at all times. Remember, when the blade contacts skin, it not only stops turning in less that 5 milliseconds, and the braking software instantly drops the blade below the table top AWAY from your fingers.

[@chadiesUtube]

About 45 yrs. ago a kickback with a dado blade sliced into 3 fingers of my left hand. 3-4 stitches in 2 of them. Luckily it didn’t hit any bones. PTSD for several months before attempting to use the saw again. And then with a new respect. 44 years later I bought a SawStop. Wished I’d bought one sooner.

[@tommcallister5835]

I tripped mine on my ICS about 18 months ago with a Woodworker II and my miter gauge. It bent the blade and arbor. When I spoke to Sawstop about it the engineer told me there is a sensor in the arbor assembly and that when a lot of home shop users attempt to change only the shaft, they damage it. This in turn requires the whole arbor assembly to be changed. So I purchased the assembly for $463 plus tax and shipping. The procedure is pretty simple and once you remove your outfeed table, fence rails, and cast iron top you have great access to the assembly, so it’s only a 5-6 hour job if you’re working fast 😮 mine took around 7 hours. Last week I was using the saw and moved the incra miter gauge from some odd angle back close to 90°, adjusted the fence out of the way of the blade, and then noticed it wasn’t exactly at 90°. I moved it and didn’t notice the little adjustment moved the dang fence back into the blade path, shortly after made a cut, and destroyed my other woodworker II that I’ve been using since 2007. This time the arbor was unbent, so it was only a $400 mistake instead of a $900 mistake.

[@HobbyOrganist]

A long time co-worker (been with us like 38 years+ went to use our brand new Altendorf sliding table saw, it's about a $20,000 saw, he set the blade tilt to 45 degrees and then somehow ran the aluminum rip fence into the turning blade leaving a 2" long gouge in the pristine aluminum... Same week he did something else similar, I think it was the cross-cut fence on that or the Powermatic now has another cut it, like geezus man, pay attention!!

[@kennethholmes9315]

Very good to know. I own two of the Sawstops and will be buying a third. I’ll definitely think twice before buying my next dado stack. Thanks again for the video.

[@mojorizn72]

After seeing the damage that a table saw did to my neighbors fingers, buying a sawstop was a no brainer.

[@nadronnocojr]

Ty for sharing this very informative, just visited Colorado Springs , and sample tacos myself, some great eats. , glad you’re ok sir

[@ET_Don]

John. Very glad you did not get hurt. It was costly, but to put a positive spin on the event you could call it an in service test of a safety device, and that safety device passed. 👍

[@Dta1996]

I feel your pain! Glad you were not hurt. Mine went off once due to stupidity. Tried to cut aluminum without turning on the bypass. Once to demonstrate to the locals how it worked with the hot dog so when the kids are helping they have so comfort. Fortunately never got a cut or bent the unit.

[@MrEldoradot]

Good luck. I am surprised the arbor bent. A Sawstop is well worth the money. I do not regret my purchase.

[@2pugman]

After 25+ years, I managed to run two fingers thru the edge of the blade. There was a hand surgeon on duty at the hospital and he removed one entire nail and stitched the other finger. My middle finger is slightly thinner and the ring finger is lookin' good. I had to have three months of therapy to get the full use of my left fingers. This was five years ago.

[@AndrewMerts]

I bet the arbor bent due to the added rotational inertia of the dado stack vs a normal saw blade. Since the SawStop is just munching down on one side of the blade to stop it, the reaction force is going to be pushing laterally on the arbor. More rotational inertia slowing down at a similar rate means more force bending the arbor.

[@fj7509]

@@AndrewMerts I phoned up SawStop. He was apparently using the wrong dado blade. His dado stack is using full sized discs which essentially acts like multiple saw blades stacked on top of each other. You want to be using chippers, not full sized discs. The full sized discs are way too heavy for the arbor to handle if the brake deploys. However, this is no fault of his. I read the SawStop manual and it doesn't say to avoid dado stacks with full sized discs. He should really be compensated by SawStop tech support.

[@SHDW-nf2ki]

I'm glad to see those things really do work the way they say they do. Also glad you kept all your limbs. A lot of old timers I know refuse to use sawstops because they fear it will turn the blade (or offending object) into shrapnal if something like that happens. I'll have to send them this video as proof!

[@mikemuniak4711]

I've run a lot of dangerous tools ,but the table saw is the one tool that I am terrified of and try not to use

[@howieduin915]

I've run heavy equipment and high speed electrical tools my whole life. I only have 1 good eye from birth, and after i saw a couple of accident videos and had a kickback happen to me; I rolled my Craftsman table saw out to the end of thedriveway with a sign. FREE TO A GOOD HOME. A neighbor asked "what's wrong with it?" Absolutely nothing.

[@vidpie]

@@howieduin915 50 years ago, when I had Wood Shop in the 7th grade, we were shown a safety film (literally on film then). What I recall of the film is it talking about getting a wood splinter in the eye and how they would have to probe to find and remove it (whereas with a metal piece they could use a magnet). This was accompanied by closeups of an eye. That registered with me to such an effect that for the entire year all I did was hand sand a mantle clock's body.

[@brysonalden5414]

Sorry for the inconvenience, glad you weren't injured. I think those of us who work with power tools eventually all have experiences where we've made errors and had the potential for injury. My angle grinders seem to have lost their blood lust once I stopped using them incorrectly!

[@MinnesotaGuy822]

Speaking of 4 1/2" angle grinders, I was once on my knees grinding a protruding stud level with the flooring when the grinder jumped and went right across my left kneecap. As you know, it happens and is done before you can even blink. Luckily for me, I was wearing an inexpensive, uncomfortable pair of relatively stiff, hard polymer knee pads. The grinding wheel ground a slot about 3/8" deep across the pad, saving my kneecap.

[@magoo647]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I recently bought a Sawstop and very glad I did. 'Better safe than sorry' and 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' might be old adages, but that doesn't make them any less relevant, especially around tools that can take your fingers off. Compensates a little bit for 'that one mistake could be your last'.

[@thomask4836]

At age 70, I am down to my last three table saws built during the 1970's one of which I purchased brand new in 73. I still have all 10 fingers, none of which have never been close to being nicked. Never had a close call. I have my saws set up meticulously with special attention given to trunion setups. Early on, I developed good habits and focus. At the moment I made my cuts nothing in the world existed except for my precious fingers, my push sticks, the saw blade and my cut. If my mind wasn't ready to cut wood, I never turned on the saw. . . . . You see from age 15, I love playing the guitar and I need all ten fingers! Just some thoughts that got me to where I am today.

[@johngillon6969]

i'm 74 i always buy 50 dollar craftsman table saws off craigslist. i chopped off 1/8 inch of my left index finger, i just washed it wrapped it in paper towel electrician tape and went to bed. it healed pretty fast. it was fascinating to watch it heal. luckily it was my left hand. i like to keep my stuff simple,. i hate this high tech shit.

[@davidbrennan5]

I am a machinist, we had many tools without guards. I was taught to follow a safe procedures when running the equipment and trained my apprentices the same way I had been trained. We never had any problems, I taught them where to stand how to position their hands and to respect the equipment, when to wear gloves and when to not wear them, that said when they added safety systems to the equipment it made things a lot safer and I welcomed the improvements. The machines are fully enclosed now and the doors have locks on them, you can't open the door when the spindles ae running. It is much safer.

[@thomask4836]

@@jvmiller1995 - Some people rely on equipment like Sawstop. I'm more of a behavior guy. Well before Sawstop, my uncle use to say "that blades not gonna stop just because your finger's there" and now there's Sawstop but I'd rather rely on good habits. I've had two major kickbacks in the past 50 or so years and I attribute those to habits I needed to change. * Don't stand in a kickback path ever, , , (I learned that the hard way with kickback number one) * Set the trunion up properly. * Use pushsticks that will flex or pivot your wrists in the event of a kickback and not jam the pushstick into your wrist. *Some folks say they're too short to stand out of the way. I say use longer push sticks. When I stood by any power tool and asked myself "what could go wrong" BEFORE turning on the power switch, I developed good habits and tried my best to think of good solutions . . . . Just some thoughts. Best Wishes and Kind Regards, Tom

[@tlhIngan]

Good habits are one thing, but disasters all throughout history have shown that it only takes a moment of inattention, one distraction, and now you have a plane crash, or nuclear accident, or some other thing. SawStop is an insurance policy - if you are disciplined in using stuff, great, you never have to pay for replacement parts. But if something goes wrong it's cheaper than a hospital visit. Human error is why we have safety interlocks, guards and other things. Too easy to make a mistake. And honestly I'm sure the ER of your hospital will probably say you're one in a million. Because everyone else thought good habits will save them too.

[@MoneyManHolmes]

The saw stop is easily worth it, even for someone with perfect tool discipline. Hell, you never know. Something could go wrong with your body and you suddenly go limp black out and contact the blade. It’s like 1 in a million, but why not have the safety factor there when it’s available.

[@tallkent71]

Thanks for sharing and especially your humilty at what is an easy mistake to make.

[@jonreddick3173]

John!!!! As soon as I saw the full-bodied chippers in one of those first shots, I knew exactly what it happened. Same thing happened to me this year on my ICS after running into a pin nail with my Oshlun set. Saw stop says not to use full-bodied chippers, but I didn’t realize it until it was too late. Had about 10 thou runout at the end of a 10” blade (2 thousandths on the arbor itself). Fortunately, I was able to find a brand new arbor on eBay if you can believe it, for about $250. I think they’re sold for about 4-450 from saw stop, so it’s not the end of the world, and it was surprisingly easy to install. (keep in mind, however, that’s coming from a guy who at one point completely disassembled two different saw stops to create the one good one that I have now!) Feel free to reach out if you have questions along the way.

[@carsonwillsie9492]

Great video. The taco comment was the best. You and I have been in the EMS business and having transported patients with their fingers in a ziplock I think this saw is great!

[@ja-no6fx]

It takes maturity, honesty and bravery to face and take responsibility for your own mistakes, even more so to publish it for the world to see. Well done sir.

[@rodneyallen4039]

I can see you was operating safely mine did that 2 times and I went back to old saw cause it’s to expensive to keep replacing

[@julietphillips1991]

I love the idea that a table saw like the sawstop can protect my hand/fingers ... but it seems to shut down for many reasons. Definitely not cheap and I just wish it was engineered some what differently.

[@oBseSsIoNPC]

Haha, called as soon as I saw the fence and your puzzled face. I don't use saw stop, as I am prone to make mistakes in many shapes and sizes. So I always have to "dry cut" first, basically measure in, pretend cut and go through the motions first. I have ADHD and the attention deficit in it can go pretty wild sometimes. Therefore I have to be absolutely convinced and confident that what I am about to do is safe and gets me my cut where I really want it. So yeah, takes a bit more time, but can save a trip to the store, hospital or buddy to have cool down beer (although that still happens regardless). Thanks for sharing 😊🙏

[@johnvoyles1184]

I did the exact same thing. Cutting tenons on chair stretchers. Turned the miter gauge to match the degree shoulder and didn't think about the fence on the miter gauge moving into the blade path as it was adjusted for nearly zero clearance when square. Scared the crap out of me and really frustrated me that I didn't think about the miter gauge fence. But, the saw did what it was supposed to do. Expensive and time consuming, but could be worse.

[@bigredbeard65]

Glad you weren't hurt and the saw can hopefully be repaired. As with anything new there is always a learning curve. Hopefully this will never be repeated, thanks for finding out what the problem was and what had caused it, might help save one of your viewers the same problem in the future.

[@mandolinman2006]

True story. The guitar builder I was briefly apprenticed to had an issue with a skilsaw. He was cutting a board, and it kicked back out of his hands. When it did, he went to grab it out of reflex and had his fingers cut off his left hand. For the most part, they were reattached, but it was years of pain and I don't know how much rehab to get any use of them again. That said, he still plays guitar better than I do.

[@KingLoopie1]

Better 500 for parts etc, than thousands upon thousands to get your finger/thumb reattached along with all of the pain and rehab... Good luck and have a happy new year! 👍👍

[@bdm1000]

I agree and thank you for sharing. I’ll keep this in mind if I ever trip my Sawstop brake.

[@jimfeaster4837]

I think the sawstop is great I lost part of thumb On another the thumb and cause serious nerve damage it took months to heal plus I had to have surgery on nerve.... I like saw stop it's the best in mind

[@ajquestell]

I'm in Sawstop Facebook groups and, of course, there have many posted activation stories...but never heard of anyone having a bent arbor because of it. Could it possibly have been how you took it out with the wedges? I have two Sawstop saws and I'm just waiting for this to happen to me one day. I believe the odds of such an activation are inversely related to whether you have an extra cartridge on hand. If you have one close by, your chances of an activation go way down. So I keep an extra of both brakes in my shop. 😉 Now that you have extras, you can safely go for years!

[@JohnSwitzer]

I think the wedges are more gentle approach. The damage to the arbor is from the momentum in a particularly heavy dado set.

[@sanches2]

I am a hobbyist and i absolutely agree with your conclusion. Best wishes for for the new year!

[@user-uh6kq2wh9g]

Didn't see the full clip but I suppose it was alminium bar that activated the brake, since it is triggered by conductivity?

[@John-NeverStopLearning]

I have used a Wood Master/ Shop Smith for 35 years. A few years before that with a regular table saw, the last 4 with a 36” SawStop. I wanted something that was very accurate and repeatable cuts. Most importantly I now have a grandson who I maybe teaching later on. I have never had any issues, however I definitely don’t want my grandson to have any. Thank you very much for the video ❤

[@CharlesVanNoland]

Thanks John. Happy New Year! :]

[@SeanSeebran]

So sorry this happened buddy, I know that the downtime can be annoying, but I'm really happy that you still have all ten fingers 😃

[@dougskinner7440]

Thanks for sharing!

[@thethinbrownduke6412]

Great video friend

[@MinnesotaGuy822]

Sharing our "Ouch, I learned from that" life lessons is amongst the most loving, valuable acts a human being can do and amongst the best ways of improving the world. I'm convinced the parts of our brain that do our "believing" only learn by experience, either direct or virtual, such as by watching what happens to others and hearing stories. I have no doubt you have helped make the world a better place by sharing this experience. Thank you! . And I agree with you and others in the comments that SawStop and similar safety technologies are relative bargains. For just one example, my mom's close friend's husband, a hobbyist woodworker for decades, accidentally ran the four palm fingers on his left hand across his table saw blade, severing all four from his hand. I didn't hear what happened after that, but it had to be way more expensive in suffering, money and lost productivity than replacing tooling. #Don'tBePennyWise&PoundFoolish #SafetyIsAHassleUntilItIsn't

[@dennyoconnor8680]

A piece of damp wood tripped mine. Expensive lesson. Been a lot more careful since.

[@LeaveMyFreedomBe]

Of all the tools I own. The table saw is the one I fear(respect) the most. Saws in general, but surely the table saw.

[@thomasbecker9676]

There's a pair of Sawstop tables in a makerspace I'm part of, and they have rules specific to dado stacks to prevent just this thing. Wet lumber can also set them off.

[@bruce-le-smith]

Very useful intel, thanks for sharing and good luck.

[@TalRohan]

Running soft things like fingers into high speed cutters there is no resistance so it relies on your nerves to feel the injury then reacting to the pain, so it can be huge even before you start to react to the mistake. Remebering that your reaction time slows even more if you are impaired in some way...even fatigue slows you down a lot never mind the other reasons The money laid out is a considerable dent in your wallet but its still cheaper than a finger or fingers ...or worse a hand. I don't use table saws, I don't like them and now don't do enough of that type of work to warrant one but overall I think the blade brake is a good thing...and that kind of cash penalty for getting it wrong certainly makes you more careful in future Glad it wasn't anything permenant John, thanks for sharing

[@springwoodcottage4248]

Several years ago while butchering firewood on a circular saw I pushed cut wood away & the blade went right through the bone in my thumb. Extraordinary skill by the plastic surgeons put it back together. & now it is not noticeable. Would I swap this experience for $600, yes in a heart beat. Thank you for sharing!

[@JohnSwitzer]

It all happens so fast. Glad you had a full recovery

[@m.cigledy6769]

This saw is the only reason I still have fingers on my left hand. I was using the standard 10" blade as a dado (I needed a slot thinner than a standard dado blade). Lightning struck a tree in my yard and made me jump, and I lost control of the piece. The wood got kicked back into my stomach, and my left hand was pulled into the blade. The wood bounced off of me hard enough to hit the ceiling, and the blade hit my index finger's 2nd knuckle. My finger only needed a band-aid, but my stomach was purple for a week. I made the blade and cartridge into a wall clock. I even welded a 3" toe kick saw blade to a 12" sawzall blade for a pendulum.

[@K.O240]

As soon as I saw the dado stack and the metal fence on the miter gauge I knew what happened. This is why I always use the left miter slot when cutting with a dado stack. That side of the blade never changes position no matter how thick your stack.

[@terryduprie6313]

Thank you for sharing

[@rickhayhoe]

Excellent video!

[@aarong402]

I unfortunately had a tablesaw accident about 5 weeks ago now and I got really lucky and only got the tip of my thumb and nicked the bone. A sawstop is not affordable to me currently but down the road I will purchase one. Thankfully as you said it was the miter sled that hit it and not your finger. Thanks for sharing

[@JohnSwitzer]

Hope you heal up soon

[@aarong402]

@ thank you

[@tsl7881]

Maybe your insurance company will help you pay for one when they hear you're going to keep on making dust...

[@durfkludge]

Those things are amazing. Expensive, but cheaper than the cost of a trip to the hospital to sew up a severed finger, so I'll take the Sawstop!

[@HamiltonMechanical]

it's definitely a double edged sword. as someone who lost fingers (to a lawnmower, not a table saw) I can definitely see the upside to having a safety system like this. And yes, even with insurance my last hand injury was 70k, so, the saw stop is much cheaper than that. But, in the same breath, that entire system needs to be serviceable by the end user in order for this to be viable, because hey, we gotta get back to work. Hope you were able to source an arbor quickly, and here's to hoping it was the mass of the dado that caused it to get bent because I could see where this happening often would drive most folks away. The cost of those cartridges have fallen a lot, It was like $600 a cartridge in the 90s when they first released this tech. But then they were so guarded about it, it never caught on. Stay safe guys! Sucks losing your fingertips. The cold really makes it suck. People freak out about it, even though it's no big deal really. The nerve damage is the worst part. In my case it took over 15 years for it to settle down and quit being so sensitive. Fingernails try to grow back, and can't.

[@Gwe686]

I personally know 2 people that have had accidents with table saws. First was a coworker in a cabinet shop I worked at who cut 3 finger tips off doing a crosscut. The second was a neighbor who was using a saw without a blade guard and tripped carrying a piece of wood to the table saw placing his hand on the running blade as he fell cutting off most of his thumb and 3 finger tips. When I bought a table saw for home I only considered Sawstop.

[@adamkellett5252]

The place I worked had a brand new sawstop. It would start all on his own. No joke came in the morning it was running. It did this many times. Had to replace electronics in it.

[@kenclark9825]

I did the same thing last week with the dado blades installed. It took a while to get the blades off but in the process I learned that if you lower the blades to the lowest position they came off easier for me. If it happens again you might try doing this,

[@oldguy1030]

Very good video. I was already convinced of the safety advantage of the SawStop which is why I bought their jobsite version. But pushing to thinking about possible integrity issues for the dado stack and also the possible bending of the arbor? Really important for extending the thinking about both precision and safety.

[@brittanylevinson741]

So glad you were not actually injured. If anything this was a minor inconvenience compared to the alternative.

[@CarbonHill]

Had almost the exact same thing happen (mitre fence tripped the blade) fortunately it was not a dado set. Knew exactly what happened when you showed your video. Ended up saving me a couple of bucks because it didn’t damage the fence.

[@theelmagoo]

Yeah.... that's a costly one, sorry to hear :(. SawStop ownership has meant the need to implement extra precautionary steps to avoid these kinds of accidents. For me it's just before making the cut after setup and using a miter gauge, run the gauge through the cut to see if it's going to touch the blade or get too close. Also worth watching the light on the control unit as you run the gauge near the blade to see if it starts blinking as that will tell you if it would go off. Another thing I've found is if you're using any kind of aluminum / metal on your fence, it needs to be at least 1/2 inch away from the blade to avoid setting off the brake. I have the Jobsite Pro saw and I use the BOW aluminum extender fence (which I highly recommend if you're using a smaller saw like this), and I noticed when I had to do a small cut that with that fence within 1/2 inch of the blade the control unit light was blinking. The blade wasn't making contact with the fence, nor would it even if it had some how flexed during the cut, but the saw didn't like it. So I just added a temp plywood fence to it and no issues.

[@bjorker40]

I agree 100% with your intelligent logic!

[@kazoobmp]

I've done the same thing, only I was cutting a bevel and forgot to move my miter guage out of the way... it's a real bummer

[@glencrandall7051]

Shortly after I got my Sawstop I did exactly the same thing. Happened so fast it took several seconds for me to realize what happened. The assembly is hanging from a nail on my shop wall as a reminder.

[@DaveNagy1]

Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. It's probably good that you are now "worried" about getting injured, *and* also worried about having to pay to fix your saw again. You'll be doubly careful, going forward! If this had happened to me, I'd be thinking about whether I could add something to my miter gauge that would make this less likely to occur in the future. (sacrificial wooden extension or something)

[@cwccharters]

I'm glad no flesh was harmed in the filming of this video. Tacos are always worth the stop😂

[@stuartlees1298]

Surprised you bent the arbor- I’ve deliberately set off a stop with both the dado stack and multiple times with single blades without issue.

[@davekimball3610]

Must be nice to have that Woodcraft so nearby. (j/k) but that is the same "closest" store for me and it's 270 miles each way to get there.

[@deziomakes]

Pretty sure that the Forrest blade co. will inspect, weld, and sharpen blades that aren't theirs. Might reach out to them.

[@JohnSwitzer]

Thats a good way to win new customers

[@jonjimihendrix]

Dado stack too… ouch, that’s ‘spensive. Still, don’t know about yours but my fingers are priceless!

[@glebtcheslavski1085]

John, thank you for telling this story! My cousin is a professional woodworker, who just lost his fingers to a table saw. It is still unknown whether the surgery was successful. Meanwhile, I am trying to get him on the idea of the sawstop. Thank you again and good luck with the repair! Really, it is much better to pay $600 but keep all your fingers.

[@A1BASE]

If you're having to 'get him on the idea' of a Sawstop after he's just lost fingers, then there's a bigger problem.

[@glebtcheslavski1085]

@@A1BASE What's is "a bigger problem"? The fact that sawstop is virtually impossible to get in Russia where he lives?

[@jimfeaster4837]

Saw stop saves injury

[@AndrewR74]

I did the same thing. Not with a dado stack. But my miter gauge loosened up and tilted ever so slightly and contacted the blade. Lessons learned.

[@hentosama]

didnt the metal thing brace that is pushing the wood onto the the blade close the circuit with your body and triggered it?

[@ericlathan6178]

My brother just got a new table saw and I was like are u getting a saw stop? He says “hell no, I’m not risking my saw” hah

[@tropifiori]

John, I have moved away from using the dado blade after talking to some European woodworkers. Mostly now I use a router in a router table instead. I think it is safer

[@RayMcNally-b2y]

I am a retired woodshop teacher. Years ago, while ripping a board on a sawstop, the brake activated and at first I couldn't figure out why. Come to find out a student was carrying a long board and just happened to hit the small red square button on the access door on the left side of the saw. The door opened and triggered the brake.

[@manitobaoutdoors7705]

Back in my day, you sawed off yer finger and it was part of the job, you learned a lesson. These kids and their fancy computer saws don't know what they're missin

[@jamespape9916]

John, I’ve had my sawstop almost 20 yrs. After I cut the tip of my middle finger off. Tripped the brake 4 times - always hitting a screw or nail. Careless on my part. I only use Ridge Carbide Blades now. They survived the last 2 incidents. I still sent them into Ridge for sharpening & inspection. No problems. I won’t run a stack on my saw for general safety reasons. I cut dadoes by hand & or with a flat top blade. I’ll never run a saw without a safety brake, too much risk for a me (& my wife). Now that the patent has been relinquished, I expect competition to drive down the cost for safety. Good on Sawstop!

[@tropifiori]

My miter gauge touched the blade, changed the impedance of the blade and did the same thing.

[@JohnSwitzer]

It sure doesn't take much of a contact. But it does illustrate that the system works.

[@Devounholy]

We run one in our shop. We’ve discovered that even wood that had a few raindrops on it would set it off. Oddly enough we got halfway through a sheet of polycarbonate mirror before it set itself off.

[@jpe1]

I’ve seen a number of comments here that either directly state, or strongly imply, that a sawstop will prevent any injury from the blade, and I want to correct that misunderstanding. I know from direct experience that a finger contacting a spinning saw blade can receive significant damage before the blade is retracted and stopped. Yes, there will be far less damage than if the blade were _not_ stopped and retracted with a sawstop brake, but still, a finger can be damaged enough to require stitches, to loose part of a nail, possibly even have tendon damage. A table saw with a sawstop is every bit as dangerous as one without, it’s just less likely to cut all your fingers off. A sawstop is a device that will reduce the damage from an accident, it’s not an excuse for carelessness or bad technique. A little math to illustrate my point: sawstop claims “less than 5 milliseconds” for the blade to retract and stop. That sounds great, but think about how fast the blade is moving: typically a table saw is set up for a speed of 12,000 to 18,000 SFPM (surface feet per minute), so let’s use 15,000 for our calculation: 15,000 feet in a minute is 250 feet per second, or .25 feet, aka 3 inches, per millisecond. So in just the first millisecond after flesh touches saw blade, a half dozen or more teeth can rip through. If you watch sawstop’s promotional videos done with hot dogs, you will see that often small nicks are taken out of the hotdog, and while small, think about how much damage that could be on a human finger. And those hot dogs are usually fed in to the blade very slowly and gingerly. Again, to be crystal clear: sawstop is a fantastic safety device, I recommend them for most everyone who uses a table saw, but don’t let a sawstop give a false sense of safety or complacency. If you can’t see your fingers, don’t make the cut (and check again for staples, no sense ruining a brake carriage because of a piece of metal you could have pulled out before you started the cut)

[@arimadx]

Is it odd the the first thing I said to myself when you showed the tripped break in the table saw was ," man that's a nice lookin dado stack!" ?

[@theeddorian]

The most worrisome event that I ever experienced was with a router, where something I did caused a piece to shoot out and into the shop wall.

[@NBCRGraphicDesign]

Me? I'd get rid of the metal rail on the miter gauge. Using a wood rail that can be replaced over time gives you many advantages. Sorry about the injury to your wallet, but certainly glad it stopped there. I suppose a dial indicator and magnetic base is going to be your next expense??

[@casual257]

What gets me is that the tablesaw will be the only tool in the shop that is somewhat safe. What about all the other power tools you need to use. I think the best solution is to focus intently on what your doing, unless you have tons of money .

[@JohnSwitzer]

Most of the woodworkers with missing fingers I've encountered over the years lost them on a table saw. I have several older vehicles without airbags, consider myself a safe driver and have no plans on getting in an accident. Should i go out and disable the airbags on my newer car? I certainly don't get offended by people that drive new cars with improved safety features.

[@casual257]

@@JohnSwitzer nothing is with hidden cost, Other common injuries from airbags include: Whiplash Traumatic brain injuries Neck and spine injuries Facial injuries Chest injuries Soft tissue injuries Internal injuries

[@brnmcc01]

@@JohnSwitzer No don't. As long as you don't sit too close to the steering wheel etc, they're much better than crashing into parts of the car. Just watch a couple hours worth of crash test video's and you can see in slow motion what happens in a crash with no airbags. You can be the best driver in the world, all it takes is one speeding drunk to blow thru a red light...

[@brnmcc01]

@@JohnSwitzer Older cars with older airbags (like Takata - pre massive recall) were kind of dangerous, but still 'on average' better than none at all. There's always these anecdotal stores of people getting killed by seatbelts too, but the proof is in the numbers. Law of large numbers, there will always be exceptions out there, but people have survived playing Russian roulette too. Does it mean that's a good idea? Heck no. Modern cars have smarter airbags that don't blow up with full force unless needed. Same with side curtain airbags that only go off if you get T-bones. Nothing's perfect, but seatbelts don't do a lot to stop your head from smashing into the B pillar without side airbags.

[@rubenreynaga1572]

I had to replace the sawstop break 3 times this year two times my coworker touched the blade ,and the most recent he forgot to bypass it and tried to cut aluminum. I had accidentally cut staples and nails before and did not trip but materials with high conductivity like cooper and aluminum will. your meterage is probability aluminum ,and that will do it

[@3weight]

Yeah, when you were pounding on the wedges to get the stack off, I was worried about your arbor. It seemed like a lot of uneven impact, forcing the stack out at the top as the wedge drove in, which might bend the arbor down. I hope the damage isn’t too hard or expensive to fix! I’m glad to have seen how tough it was to get the stack off. That seems like something Sawstop would have engineered a better solution for, if one was possible. I’ve assumed for years I’d get a Sawstop when I bought a cabinet saw, but for a number of reasons I’m looking at a Harvey instead, and that arbor issue is a little sobering. (BTW, your point about how much meat a dado stack could grind is well-taken, but I think I’d likely run mine with the brake disabled - my big blade fears come into play with a blade above the workpiece, I think I’d feel ok about dealing with just the exit point of a dado or groove.)

[@JohnSwitzer]

much lighter than pounding and with the wedges it moved pretty easily. It would take much more than that to bend the 5/8" steel of the arbor. I think the problem is more from the dado stack I was using. Since this happened I found out Sawstop recommends against using dados with full chippers. What I had is about double the weight of the Sawstop dado with the same setup.

[@vagabondmike5870]

Can’t wait to upgrade myself. People do dumb stuff, but we’re smart enough to know we do those dumb things. That’s why we build things to help stop us from hurting ourselves while we do dumb stuff. Just walking into an ER, with insurance, costs more than a new base model contractor size sawstop. Without insurance and a serious injury? Coulda bought the biggest and baddest beast with every option AND put it inside that new 20x30 metal building with the best dust extraction system. Stay safe out there. Work smart. Upgrade smart.

[@jackdawg4579]

I had to look up what a "daddo stack" was! Also interesting you can rebuild the saw, I thought the saw stop system basically was the end of the saw when it fired. My father put his thumb into a table saw blade when i was a kid, it was the briefest touch, but it was a mess, it went deep enough to fill the wound full of bone shards, and yes, it was probably 6 months before fully healed.

[@JohnSwitzer]

In most cases its only the cartridge and the blade that need to be replaced.

[@StillLivinginthewoods]

Honestly, Sawstop never made much sense to me to begin with. I've known several people who've injured themselves on a table saw, and in every case it was kickback that caused the problem... in which case the blade wouldn't stop until it was too late anyway. Fighting kickback is the best way to avoid accidents and injury on a tablesaw.

[@JohnSwitzer]

It's certainly true that kickback is a big problem. But kickback is also a big reason fingers get pulled into a blade. Sort of like how seat belts and air bags don't prevent accidents, they just reduce the severity of the injuries

[@geoffsemon7411]

3 activations here, none involving fingers. One was a dropped glue bottle on the final spin of the blade. Next was cutting through a looses tenon where the glue still hadn't completely dried after 3 days. I can't remember what the 3rd one was but it was something dumb. I always keep a spare.

[@GWAYGWAY1]

Damp wood will fire the stop? It is an electrical flow somewhere.

[@PasqualeMinardi-n5k]

You can always bypass the safety, I tend to do this when I have the dado blades.

[@JohnSwitzer]

Good tip