Iain McGilchrist & Nigel McGilchrist on The Greatness of Pythagoras

Dr Iain McGilchrist talks to art historian, Nigel McGilchrist, about his new book, When the Dog speaks, the Philosopher listens - A guide to the greatness of Pythagoras and his curious Age.
This book can be purchased via this link www.amazon.com/When-Dog-Speak...
This book is a celebration of the genius of Pythagoras, of the brilliance of the Early Greek mind, and of the richness of the 6th century BC in which Pythagoras lived - a quite extraordinary hundred years in the story of the modern world, when Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, and the Western scientific tradition all came into being, changing our human lives for ever.
It is about the trade of ideas between India, Babylon, Persia, Egypt and Greece, and the marriage of the Eastern and the Western mind in the thinking of Pythagoras. It is about the harmonics of music; about new words - how they help us and betray us; and about the discovery of the world around us, both in the salt-sprayed journeys of courageous mariners and in the quiet stillness of the minds of equally courageous thinkers. It is about the seas, the stars, the shapes of things, and all their deep connections.
For more information about Nigel McGilchrist visit his website here www.nigelmcgilchrist.com
For more information about Dr Iain McGilchrist visit his website here channelmcgilchrist.com/home/

[@sethbase6960]

Awesome! I just finished listening to your conversation on Curt’s podcast & now I get to listen to you & your brother on your channel!

[@StationGarageSt]

Listening to these marvellous videos remind me of the wonderful 13 part series the BBC ran in the 1970's. I was not blessed with a university education but BBC2's "Civilisation, a personal view. Kenneth Clark , The Ascent of Man, Jacob Bronowski, The Body in Question Jonathan Miller" etc were as good. Where the BBC now fail us, you do not. You rekindle so much.

[@nickw2704]

Indeed. I made this point to Iain in person ten years ago (he couldn’t disagree either, by the way 😉) and followed it up in some email correspondence, but, of course, The Divided Brain happened. I’ve not seen it, I dare say it’s rather good, but as I said to Iain (as if it wasn’t obvious) only a major series can really do his hypothesis justice. This is why I tell conservatives to not be hasty in defunding the BBC... I have some misgivings about the BBC model in principle. But here’s the stark reality; the BBC has massively compromised itself with ‘Covid’ propaganda (I use Covid as shorthand for Orwellian abuses that go back decades). I keep a close eye on MAGA, the American situation... see Steve Bannon, see Darren Beattie, Jack Prosobiec, the Committee On The Present Danger... if we can get through the current crisis without nuclear Armageddon; if American patriots can restore the Constitution the MSM (esp BBC) reputation will be in tatters but not necessarily beyond salvaging. The funding model of the BBC will doubtless need reviewing but for a period of transition (that word😬) a renaissance even it could be vital; and what better than a major treatment of the Hemisphere Hypothesis? I have many projects in mind, like a comprehensive survey of the works of Roger Scruton. I suspect the main difficulty will be so called conservatives who are currently carrying the torch for, say, Scruton (The Legacy Foundation) they’re good at some things but I’m not sure they understand someone like me; I was a school dropout, spent many years essentially adrift, you need to reach people like me... they tend to use Scruton’s work to tenuously frame their own thoughts and ideas (There’s a place for that). I’ve had some acquaintance with James Orr for eg... he’s a nice enough guy, and he’s doubtless busy, but to be brutally honest I don’t think he has much time for someone like me, the attitude is quite blatant and all too common; it’s the classic case of being cliquey. ...but anyway, perhaps you get the gist

[@cecilcharlesofficial]

content like this (and the re-emergence of Alan Watts on KZbin) will save the world :)

[@cecilcharlesofficial]

@@nickw2704 Scruton's 'Why Beauty Matters' is one of the most important documentaries ever. We need to be reminded that we don't have to call something 'beautiful' just because some cynical elitist progressive insists it is. Beauty is what rejuvenates. Calling horrid things beautiful (the urinal, the bed with trash in it, the brutalist architecture, etc) not only doesn't fulfill us (because the effect of beauty on the body/mind can't be faked) but it creates resentment too - because we're told to call something beautiful that isn't. We're told to lie. And we hate it. It's the same resentment we feel when we're told 'we must love' even though love can't be done on purpose, either. The solution: honesty. Speak the truth. Act spontaneously. Appreciate the world. As to what should be done with the BBC, I don't know.

[@alanmunro5068]

@@nickw2704 I agree with almost all you say. Has Iain commented on Scruton?

[@nickw2704]

@@alanmunro5068 thank you... my comment was typed up pretty quickly, and needs a lot of elaboration. Re Scruton, I’m pretty sure Iain quoted him in The Matter With Things. Of course I should use discretion about private correspondence, but I don’t think I’d be divulging too much by saying that, some years back, Iain said he was not really a fan of Scruton’s. He didn’t expound. I dare say he respects much of his work. For my part, I think Scruton, his oeuvre perhaps inevitably suffered from covering too much ground; He was a Philosopher, a Hunter, a connoisseur of wine, a composer, musicologist, lawyer, expert on architecture, even theologian (well, he didn’t claim to be, but Diarmaid MacCulloch responded to Our Church pretty much as though he had... I don’t know how fair MacCulloch’s criticism was), all those things may be all the more reason to praise Scruton; I’m not sure, but it’s very interesting and merits a comprehensive survey. I think Scruton can be a little too clever in defending his views on, say, spirits vs wine, for one example. Re music, I think Scruton was too ‘academic’, I suspect he was a bit too left hemisphere dominant on the subject for my liking; but still interesting.

[@martinst8764]

Really enjoyed this. My brother put up a poly tunnel for his rare plant collection a few years ago - he failed maths O level 3 times but knew to ask me about Pythagorus to get the structure perfectly square - obviously it worked a treat! Just to mention that the Buddha stands out from his chronological contemporaries because he was emphatic about exactly what his teaching was about; 'I teach one thing and one thing only - dukkha and the end of dukkha'. Dukkha is usually translated as suffering or unsatisfactoriness. Basically, the complete eradication of dukkha is consummate with the highest truth that we can realise.

[@damianclifford9693]

Brilliant illuminating conversation...the McGilchrists have been blessed with great intellect ! It might be interesting to invite Nigel to interview Iain about his work or to hear him speak about Iain's work, another angle so to speak.

[@sheilaeisele8490]

Next lifetime, I want to be part of this family! Wonderful Iain. Thank-you for this conversation with Nigel. I enjoyed it immensely.

[@joefization]

Such a fascinating video and an unmitigated pleasure to listen to. These two brothers are wonderful; I wonder what their parents must be like? Wonder parents indeed I imagine.

[@sheilac5319]

Poor old 'Thag. How out of place, and out of time, he must have felt. I'm really looking forward to buying this book and particularly to its written format and illustrations. Many thanks for this interview.

[@CHGLongStone]

Great conversation. Iain I think you're getting some background feedback from your speakers to the microphone. It's the same artifact I could hear in your chat with John Vervaeke and Curt Jaimungal. If you can't turn down the speakers turn down the microphone sensitivity.

[@peterroselle7612]

Kind of you to make that observation

[@freethinkers-inc.]

I remember my origins. Thanks so much for this contribution. It feels like you are describing me. I can feel the spirit of Pythagoras.😍

[@KB-bo9xl]

Lovely conversation.

[@ubiktd4064]

So glad I found this....fascinating talk...I think people back in Pythagoras's time weren't materialistic but thought more deeply and considered mathematics as some kind of holy transcendent function.

[@PeterStrider]

Thank you Iain and Nigel. I've ordered and can't wait for it to arrive. Sounds like a perfect primer to finally push me into reading my set of Guthrie's history of ancient Greek philosophy! What incredible dinner conversation must have gone on at the McGilchrist house when these gentlemen were growing up!

[@geoffreydawson5430]

When a Western climber thankfully returns from the top of Mt Everest they become motivational speakers, yet we never hear of those who got them there (except for the marketing of the scientific instruments used to achieve it). The record of climbing Mt Everest 26 times is held by a Sherpa (Prior record holder, Apa Sherpa, got sponsored to live in the U.S, whose first job was a pizza delivery driver. He wanted to be a Doctor but his Father died on Mt Everest so he had to support his family. He never lost a climber to Chomolungma, the Mother Goddess of the world.). Most Westerners are not so arrogant, however, not to mention the Nepalese people. What this has to do with Pythagoras I do not know. Other than our single-mindedness in the West. What goes up must come down, hence compassion, for self and others. The window and time of day are beautiful. If you want to look into a bottomless crevasse it is right in front of you. To quote, Ajahn Martin/Piyadammo (Conservative Buddhist).

[@freethinkers-inc.]

Thank you so much for this video. It helped me to remember who I really am. I just ordered the book. I love you.😍

[@freethinkers-inc.]

When we discover the beauty in things, we actually start to feel the self-love.

[@Krasbin]

When you are talking about ma'ath in Eqyptian, I was reminded of the Dutch word "maat". It means: 1 "wandelen in de maat" = walking in step 2 maat = bar/measure as in music notation 3 "iets op maat maken" = to make something that fits

[@hairygreybox5797]

good stuff.

[@freethinkers-inc.]

Really good description at time-index 26:00. I also came to the same conclusion before. Thanks.

[@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026]

Fascinating perspective on the development of Greek culture and of the Renaissance in Italy. There is also perhaps something very important about attachment to place and the clear delimitation of the place by the borders of the water or the city walls. Islands even today deeply hold culture, customs and story.

[@Icosindaba]

Thank you brothers. The closing quote will now be the opening of my next book Mystery/My Story. Synchronistically, while I was busy transcribing it, with my imagination all fired up with ideas of how to bring to consciousness my ancestral connections, and how these have helped me comprehend my work more fully, my own dog decided it was time for more important business. She jumped on my arm chair, pawed my arm incessantly to stop me typing, very eager for attention and a walk in the park. When the dog speaks the writer must stop writing and listen. 🐕😂

[@cheri238]

❤

[@adhicitta]

When listening to the last part of your conversation about how early Buddhism might have influenced the Greeks and vice versa i was reminded of Thomas McEvilley's work "The Shape of Ancient Thought". I have just ordered your brother's book to find out if there are more comments about this fascinating East-West exchange - and i am curious about your opinions on McEvilley's research?

[@sheilaeisele8490]

It might be interesting to ponder language and wisdom by considering ancient languages. For instance, ancient Greek is more formalized in structure than ancient languages like Hebrew and Aramaic which arose from nomadic peoples, rather than settled ones. While rich in symbolism, the language itself, and interpretation of the words, depends more on nuance than does ancient Greek. Meanings of words in ancient Greek are precise, indicated clearly by the structure of the sentence. Reading the Christian New Testament in the biblical Greek vs biblical Aramaic gives one a different sense. In Greek, it has a more definitive, prescriptive tone, while in Aramaic seems more descriptive of the relationship between God, faith and life experience. This was wonderfully rich, Iain and Nigel; I shall feed off it for a long time. 💝

[@macawism]

Advise you do some courses on linguistics

[@sheilaeisele8490]

@@macawism I was speaking from my own experience (and that of some colleagues) . After studying those particular ancient languages we then translated the biblical texts. The rhythm, flow and interpretation varied, depending on which language we were interpreting. My observation was that ancient Greek was a more formal, structured language, while Aramaic and Hebrew, which arose in nomadic cultures, were less so.

[@freethinkers-inc.]

Kosmos is the result of the Harmony. Where the energy is put into order. Without this principle we couln't/wouldn't exist.

[@ppitzele]

two brothers and their two philosophical touch stones. One with Heraclitus and the other with Pythagoras. How amiable their polarity.

[@freethinkers-inc.]

I'm always astonished how the church was able until now to erase the Gnostics almost completely out of the collective mind. I am.

[@philippaw65]

Very good. The reference to ALL Greeks participating in democracy of course cannot include women and slaves.

[@abcrane]

Curves are dull angles. Angles, sharp curves. Lines, stretched out circles. Circles, recoiled lines. Squares are jagged circles. Circles, smoothed out squares. But triangles are only ever triangles. Their inner tension deems them immutable despite the inherent vulnerability of their connector points. The strength in the unevenness of their parallels and perpendiculars that prevents their collapsing? Is this the teleological essence of Pythagorean’s Theorem-its use value in industry and architecture?

[@freethinkers-inc.]

I reconstructed what yo u are describing on my own by just thinking.

[@freethinkers-inc.]

Pythagoras embodied the perfect flow through the 7 chakras, which Heraclitus could not embody.

[@ricerikson4708]

ceremonies of maat?

[@treborstreet]

At the birth of Anaxagoras, his parents named him 'Lord of the Assembly' : At the birth of Pythagoras his parents named him '....... of the Assembly' : Fill in the blank to understand how these names were acquired and ruminate the reason why? Plato was not his name given at birth, it meant something. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation enveloping the vital perspective required to see these men in their environment and period of existence. Iain doesn't often reply to comments, perhaps Nigel can appease the matter with names? For a Lunar Circle patriot.

[@freethinkers-inc.]

Hermetic Laws were one of the main influences on the greek philosophers. And before that the indian philosophers influenced spirit of Hermes Trismegistos and then with the great awakening of Christ this was cumulating to the "resolution" but the roman empire prevented this great awakening until now... I got reborn in this age to reactivate what was getting stopped > 2000 years ago. Now the time has come again.

[@stephaniehoile8762]

Greece like us got to comfortable with knowledge. So you can see where we're going..

[@robertalenrichter]

So, the geographical, therefore political fragmentation of Ancient Greece prevented the development of a central narrative or authority, and this in turn fostered a more freethinking cast of mind, the circulation of ideas, information -- but within separate entities which could be compared with one another. There was a kind of "cultural benchmarking". A stated, there is a similar pattern in Renaissance Italy; another good example would be Germany until the latter part of the 18th century, especially in the 17th, when there were hundreds of states. Goethe and Schiller were constantly moving from one to another. A book banned in one Duchy might be available right next door. Persecuted intellectuals found succour in the sanctuary of neighbouring states. I wonder whether geography fully explains Greek exceptionalism, but I guess it does go a long way.

[@StationGarageSt]

"central narratives and authority" The higher a society climbs that path, the harder it falls.

[@ricerikson4708]

too tall poppies were exiled ;)

[@freethinkers-inc.]

7 does the trick.

[@freethinkers-inc.]

Better living = to act in the name of mathematical functions (Logos). Or you could also say in a reasonable way.

[@macawism]

Wasn’t he killed in Syracuse? … and associated with the first computational device?

[@uiPublic]

Hold on the Oriental for Greeks was Anatolia, Persian became a strange Enemy so're Barbars to the North, Christ referred to Atma as only sustaining Life & Awareness both that's beneath probably as the Heart not brain?!

[@uiPublic]

Hence transcendent Soul apart body cannot be assumed if He Alone retained Life after death. ..

[@uiPublic]

How about Solomon's 1000 BC or else Daniel around 800 BC if not Greeks known later Epics‽

[@ricerikson4708]

land based village to village to village crossing the land, each village delaying/distorting the message as it travels from the source, to pass through more layers of suspicion/ proofs of value, conservative adoption? sea based direct travel from source 1 inspection on arrival, liberal adoption?

[@ricerikson4708]

Chinese must have massive panda bear neurological development data:)

[@ricerikson4708]

do whales and porpoises beach themself to get away from the resonance wrecking their minds and songs?

[@D.E.Saccone-no4og]

That Was Adorable ; )